HomeMy WebLinkAboutRe: septic issues Christine Mattson
From: Jeremy Barnhart
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 325 PM
To: Steve Gerber; Christine Mattson
��: Richard Crosby; Denny Walsh; Dustin Rief
Subject: RE: 30 Orono Orchard Road N/permit#2016-00950
Mr. Gerber,
Thank you for your email. I appreciate you taking the time to outline your concerns and issues. I have had an
opportunity to review the history.
Regazding your septic issue,the City does require identification of two septic sites for each lot. When building
an accessory structure, it is necessary to ensure that the new construction will not impact the septic
systems. The identification of sites is not solely driven by area,but also setbacks (from the water well, exiting
buildings,wetlands, and property lines and building), soils, and slopes. The City does not want to put the
homeowner in position to have to scramble to come up with an expensive alternative when planning on the front
end would negate this expense. In the event there is not an available septic site, expansion of the municipal
sewer system is typically not an option.
Regarding your as-built survey issue. When you applied for and received your permit,the city did require as
built surveys for projects such as yours. Therefore,the permit reflected that requirement, which you
acknowledged. However, after your permit was approved in September of 2016,the City Council amended the
regulations in Apri12017, removing the requirement that an as-built survey. An escrow deposit is retained to
ensure the project satisfies the requirements of the permit. Among those requirements is a requirement that the
site is stabilized post construction. We do this to ensure the protection of the property, drainage ways, and
neighboring properties. A final inspection will confirm that the site has been revegetated. I do note that the
escrow collected was $2,500. Current city ordinance requires a$1,000 escrow to guarantee stabilization of the
site. I am initiating a refund of$1,500 of your escrow now,with the balance to be refunded after the snow
melts and the vegetation can be verified.
I understand your request for reimbursement of$1,316, $750 for the septic site information and$566 for the as-
built survey. As noted above,the septic site location is mandated by city code. Included in your permit was a
requirement for an as-built survey. City staff followed the ordinances and the permit in place at the time. At
this tim�, I cannot authorize or support a reimbursement of funds of any kind, other than the partial escrow
mentioned above.
Sincerely,
7eremy Barnhart,AICP
Community Development Director
Direct 952.249.4626
Planning &Zoning Office 952.249.4620
2750 Kelley Parkway, Orono, MN 55356
Website: www.ci.orono.mn.us
Cc: Denny, Richard, Dustin
i
From:Steve Gerber [mailto:swg.gerber@gmail.com]
Sent:Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:38 AM
To:Christine Mattson<CMattson@ci.orono.mn.us>
Cc:Jeremy Barnhart<jbarnhart@ci.orono.mn.us>; Richard Crosby<rcrosby@ci.orono.mn.us>; Denny Walsh
<dwalsh2@ci.orono.mn.us> ,
Subject: Re: 30 Orono Orchard Road N/permit#2016-00950
Hi Christine,
I was quite surprised and confused by your recent email. In your email you said, "When the weather permits(after
the snow melts) an inspector will visit the site to confirm the survey accurately depicts the conditions on the ground
and that any disturbed areas have been established with vegetation."
We talked last fall and you said you needed an as-built to verify what I understood was needed to complete the
process and get my deposit back. Nothing was mentioned about an additional inspection of the property. If so, can
you tell me why you did not have this inspection done before the snow was here? I was led to believe that the as-
built was the last step. I paid a licensed professional to accurately depict the conditions. How is it that I was
required to have this done if it is not valid?
Bear with me as I recap the arduous process I was required to go through and how I feel I was taken advantage of:
1. I applied for a simple permit to add a 26x30 detached garage on our three acre parcel. I provided a survey that
demonstrated our entire property and the footprint of the proposed garage.
2. I was told the survey was not good enough. Plus I was also told I needed to provide a plan for an alternate septic
system. Given the circumstances, three acres, plenty of land, I asked why this was necessary. I was told everyone
has to do it.
I'd like to challenge the city to consider each circumstance and only add these requirements if they make sense. In
my situation, it required a delay and a $750 additional expense. I think iYs common knowledge that 90+ percent of
failed septic systems including drain fields are repaired not abandoned. Plus with as much land as I have, if the
need ever does arise, this alternate site could have been dealt with at that time. Again, can the city implement some
common sense into its requirements rather than blanket requirements?
3. After getting the alternative septic system plan and permit application submitted, it took a month for me to get the
approved permit. I understand the plan reviewer was on vacation for a week, but not multiple weeks for your
department to accept the plan. If you recall, after several unreturned emails, I finally came into city hall and told the
ladies at the desk I was there to get my permit and that I would wait until it was completed. I was told someone
would come out and talk to me. Unfortunately, there was a lack of courage by your department because after 15
minutes the ladies at the desk brought everything to me without explanation and without a visit from you. I signed
the paperwork and on it, it said 1 would provide an as-built when the job was completed- per your request. I did not
agree with this request but I signed it anyway because I did not have a choice. I was behind on my project starting, it
was fall and I had work obligations that required me to leave town for an extended period. Shame on me for
not arguing that my survey with the "penciled in"detached garage was enough. I just could not afford any more time
fighting city hall.
4. After my final inspection, I came back to city hall and asked for my deposit. I received a phone call from you
asking for the as-built. As we discussed, I had provided a survey and didn't know what else the as-built would
provide. I was told my survey only had a hand drawn location of the garage on it. My response was why couldn't the
city inspector who did the final inspection simply verify that the drawing location was correct. You reminded me I
agreed to an as-built. So I acquiesced at the cost of another$566 expense for me.
2
5. Imagine my surprise when I get your recent email telling me that there is another hoop I have to jump through
(another inspection). Based on this new additional requirement, the as-built drawing was a complete waste of
money and time (finro months). Once again, where is the common sense?Why the change of requirements?Why do
you not honor a certified surveyors document if you require it?
I am requesting an immediate return of my deposit money. No further property inspections are appropriate. No one
looked at the site before I put up the garage, how can anyone now determine the condition of the site?The
inspection will be completely arbitrary. And forgive me for being skeptical, but now I am expecting the worst, I am
expecting another delay/requirement to be asked of ine (after you send someone out in April/May. I am expecting no
one will come until I remind you. And I am expecting that this process will cost me additional money. I shouldn't
have to remind you that the deposit is my money, not the city's.
I am requesting an explanation why a common sense review of a project cannot be done instead of enforcing
blanket requirements on all projects regardless of the size and scope of the project.
I am requesting reimbursement for the$1316 extra I was required to spend that added no value to this project.
Respectfully,
Steve Gerber
320.253.1994
PS, as you can see, I'm copying the mayor and one of the council members. I believe that this process has been
unreasonable and needs to change. I also want to see changes that benefit the next person and help relieve stress
and expense for others.
On Feb 8, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Christine Mattson<CMattson(a�ci.orono.mn.us>wrote:
Good Morning Steve,
We have received the as-built survey,thank you. Our engineer has reviewed the survey. When the
weather permits(after the snow melts)an inspector will visit the site to confirm the survey accurately
depicts the conditions on the ground and that any disturbed areas have been established with
vegetation.
Your escrow money will be refunded after the site visit is made and no issued have been identified.
Please don't hesitate to contact us with any questions.
Christine Mattson
Planning Assistant
City of Orono
2750 Kelley Parkway ( Orono � MN � 55356(physica/addressJ
PO Box 66 � Crystal Bay � MN � 55323-0066 (mailing addressJ
'� 952.249.4620 ' 8 952.249.4616
3
� cmattson@ci.orono.mn.us � � www.ci.orono.mn.us
Office Hours: Monday- Friday 8 am to 4:30 pm
OUR OFFICE WILL BE CLOSED: Monday, February 19,2018
From:Christine Mattson
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 3:34 PM
To:'Steve Gerber'<sw�.�erber@�mail.com>
Cc:Jeremy Barnhart<ibarnhart@ci.orono.mn.us>
Subject: RE: 30 Orono Orchard Road N/permit#2016-00950
Steve,
Per our telephone conversation,attached is a copy of the issued permit. An as-built survey will confirm
the garage was constructed as proposed. It will also show final grades around the proposed garage and
confirm the current and alternate septic sites were not negatively impacted during construction.
If you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Christine Mattson
Planning Assistant
City of Orono
2750 Kelley Parkway I Orono � MN � 55356(physical address)
PO Box 66 � Crystal Bay � MN � 55323-0066 (mailing addressJ
'� 952.249.4620 ' 8 952.249.4616
� cmattson@ci.orono.mn.us 0 �www.ci.orono.mn.us
Office Hours: Monday- Friday 8 am to 4:30 pm
OUR OFFICE WILL BE CLOSED: November 23&24,2017
December 22& December 25,2017
January 1,2018
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gerber[mailto:sw�.�erber@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:48 PM
To:Christine Mattson<CMattson@ci.orono.mn.us>
Subject: permit#2016-00950
Hi Christine,
I am requesting my$2500 deposit.The garage has been finished and final inspections completed.The
check can be mailed to my home address.
thank you,
4
Steve
Steve Gerber
30 Orono Orchard Rd
320.253.1994
5
Christine Mattson
From: Christine Mattson
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 3:43 PM
To: Jeremy Barnhart
Subject: RE: 30 Orono Orchard Road N/permit#2016-00950
Jeremy,
Here is the timeline of the application for a proposed accessory structure:
• Building application submitted on 8-10-2016
• Submitted to Adam and Roger on 8-11-2016
• Roger emailed and called applicant on 8-11-2016 for additional information on the septic system. Per
Roger's email he informed the applicant that an alternate septic site must be identified according to
City Code Section 58-47(d).
• Adam reviewed on 8-16-2016, no issues.
• Alternate septic site paperwork received 8-23-2016.
• Additional building permit questions answered on 8-23-16 by applicant.
• Roger signed off on 8-30-2016
• I signed off on 9-1-2016.
• Permit issued 9-7-2016. Applicant signed/agreed on the issued permit that an as-built survey would be
submitted after project.
• Project was finalized on 11-17-2017.
• Escrow refund requested 11-20-2017. After talking to the applicant I emailed him a copy of the issued
permit stating as as-built survey was required.
• An as-built survey was submitted on 2-5-2018, which is dated by the surveyor as of 1-10-18. Adam
reviewed on 2-7-2018, see his email. It should be noted the surveyor stated: This survey intends to
show the boundaries of the above described property, and the location of an existing house,garage,
as-built spot elevations and topography from Orono maps,and all visible hardcover thereon. It does
not purport to show any other improvements or encroachments.
• I emailed the applicant on 2-8-18 informing him a site visit would be made after snow melts.
Verifying site conditions in Spring when as-built have been submitted during winter months is standard
practice. The intent of the visit is to verify grades, no work outside the permitted scope were completed and
vegetation has been established. Escrows are released after the site visit is complete and the site is compliant.
The applicants email is below.
Please feel free to call me if you have any questions.
i
From:Steve Gerber[mailto:sw�.�erber@�mail.coml
Sent:Tuesday, February 13,201811:38 AM
To:Christine Mattson<CMattson@ci.orono.mn.us>
Cc:Jeremy Barnhart<jbarnhart@ci.orono.mn.us>; Richard Crosby<rcrosbv@ci.orono.mn.us>; Denny Walsh
<dwalsh2@ci.orono.mn.us>
Subject: Re: 30 Orono Orchard Road N/permit#2016-00950
Hi Christine,
I was quite surprised and confused by your recent email. In your email you said, "When the weather permits (after
the snow melts) an inspector will visit the site to confirm the survey accurately depicts the conditions on the ground
and that any disturbed areas have been established with vegetation."
We talked last fall and you said you needed an as-built to verify what I understood was needed to complete the
process and get my deposit back. Nothing was mentioned about an additional inspection of the property. If so, can
you tell me why you did not have this inspection done before the snow was here? I was led to believe that the as-
built was the last step. I paid a licensed professional to accuratQly depict the cq�ditions.�ow is it that I was _
required to have this done if it is not valid? U/� ���� vP��� 7 �j✓�w��` � ��t a�vr/afro-�+
Bear with me as I recap the arduous process I was required to go through and how I feel I was taken advantage of:
1. I applied for a simple permit to add a 26x30 detached garage on our three acre parcel. I provided a survey that
demonstrated our entire property and the footprint of the proposed garage. �
2. I was told the survey was not good enough. Plus I was also told I needed to provide a plan for an altemate septic
system. Given the circumstances, three acres, plenty of land, I asked why this was necessary. I was told everyone
has to do it. ��pl, �'Po� J��rPc� �,�� -��p���l�c C�,��'S � H4�- �J� �ary� �".� 4��°�. �a��,,�y��'�S
I'd like to challenge the city to consider each circumstance and only add these requirements if they make sense.�n
my situation, it required a delay and a $750 additional expense. I think it's common knowledge that 90+ percent of
failed septic systems including drain fields are repaired not abandoned. Plus with as much land as I have, if the .
need ever does arise, this alternate site could have been dealt with at that time. Again, can the city implement some
common sense into its requirements rather than blanket requirements? � �°��"3
3. After getting the alternative septic system plan and permit application submitted, it took mont for me to get the
approved permit. I understand the plan reviewer was on vacation for a week, but not multip eeks for your
department to accept the plan. If you recall, after several unreturned emails, I finally came into city hall and told the
ladies at the desk I was there to get my permit and that I would wait until it was completed. I was told someone
would come out and talk to me. Unfortunately, there was a lack of courage by your department because after 15
minutes the ladies at the desk brought everything to me without explanation and without a visit from you. I signed
the paperwork and on it, it said I would provide an as-built when the job was completed- per your request. I did not
agree with this request but I signed it anyway because I did not have a choice. I was behind on my project starting, it
was fall and I had work obligations that required me to leave town for an extended period. Shame on me for
not arguing that my survey with the"penciled in"detached garage was enough. I just could not afford any more time
fighting city hall.
4. After my final inspection, I came back to city hall and asked for my deposit. I received a phone call from you
asking for the as-built. As we discussed, I had provided a survey and didn't know what else the as-built would
provide. I was told my survey only had a hand drawn location of the garage on it. My response was why couldn't the
city inspector who did the final inspection simply verify that the drawing location was correct. You reminded me I
agreed to an as-built. So I acquiesced at the cost of another$566 expense for me.
5. Imagine my surprise when I get your recent email telling me that there is another hoop I have to jump through
(another inspection). Based on this new additional requirement, the as-built drawing was a complete waste of'
money and time (two months). Once again, where is the common sense?Why the change of requirements?Why do
you not honor a certified surveyors document if you require it?
I am requesting an immediate return of my deposit money. No further property inspections are appropriate. No one
looked at the site before I put up the garage, how can anyone now determine the condition of the site?The
inspection will be completely arbitrary. And forgive me for being skeptical, but now I am expecting the worst, I am
expecting another delay/requirement to be asked of ine (after you send someone out in April/May. I am expecting no
one will come until I remind you. And I am expecting that this process will cost me additional money. I shouldn't
have to remind you that the deposit is my money, not the city's.
I am requesting an explanation why a common sense review of a project cannot be done instead of enforcing
blanket requirements on all projects regardless of the size and scope of the project.
z
�
I am requesting reimbursement for th $1316 e ra I was required to spend that added no value to this project.
Respectfully, �-
Steve Gerber
320.253.1994
PS, as you can see, I'm copying the mayor and one of the council members. I believe that this process has been
unreasonable and needs to change. I also want to see changes that benefit the next person and help relieve stress
and expense for others.
On Feb 8, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Christine Mattson<CMattson�n,ci.orono.mn.us>wrote:
Good Morning Steve,
We have received the as-built survey,thank you. Our engineer has reviewed the survey. When the
weather permits(after the snow melts) an inspector will visit the site to confirm the survey accurately
depicts the conditions on the ground and that any disturbed areas have been established with
vegetation.
Your escrow money will be refunded after the site visit is made and no issued have been identified.
Please don't hesitate to contact us with any questions.
Christine Mattson
Planning Assistant
City of Orono
2750 Kelley Parkway I Orono � MN ( 55356(physical address)
PO Box 66 � Crystal Bay � MN I 55323-0066(mailing addressJ
'� 952.249.4620 I 8 952.249.4616
� cmattson@ci.orono.mn.us � � www.ci.orono.mn.us
Office Hours: Monday-Friday 8 am to 4:30 pm
OUR OFFICE WILL BE CLOSED: Monday, February 19,2018
From:Christine Mattson
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 3:34 PM
To: 'Steve Gerber'<sw�.�erber@�mail.com>
Cc:Jeremy Barnhart<ibarnhart@ci.orono.mn.us>
Subject: RE: 30 Orono Orchard Road N/permit#2016-00950
Steve,
Per our telephone conversation, attached is a copy of the issued permit. An as-built survey will confirm
the garage was constructed as proposed. It will also show final grades around the proposed garage and
confirm the current and alternate septic sites were not negatively impacted during construction.
3
If you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Christine Mattson
Planning Assistant
City of Orono
2750 Kelley Parkway � Orono � MN � 55356(physica/addressJ
PO Box 66 � Crystal Bay � MN I 55323-0066(mailing addressJ
"a" 952.249.4620 � 8 952.249.4616
� cmattson@ci.orono.mn.us � � www.ci.orono.mn.us
Office Hours: Monday- Friday 8 am to 4:30 pm
OUR OFFICE WILL BE CLOSED: November 23&24,2017
December 22& December 25,2017
January 1,2018
-----Original Message-----
From:Steve Gerber[mailto:sw�.�erber@�mail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:48 PM
To: Christine Mattson<CMattson@ci.orono.mn.us>
Subject: permit#2016-00950
Hi Christine,
I am requesting my$2500 deposit.The garage has been finished and final inspections completed.The
check can be mailed to my home address.
thank you,
Steve
Steve Gerber
30 Orono Orchard Rd
320.253.1994
4