HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-09-2017 Council Minutes MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
ROLL CALL
The Orono City Council met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Mayor
Dennis Walsh,Council Members Richard Crosby, II, Wendy Dankey, and Aaron Printup. Representing
Staff were City Administrator Dustin Rief, Community Service Director Jeremy Barnhart,City Planner
Melanie Curtis,Public Works Director/City Engineer Adam Edwards,City Attorney Soren Mattick, and
Recorder Jackie Young. Council Member Seals arrived at 7:12 p.m.
Mayor Walsh called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
1. CONSENT AGENDA
Crosby moved,Printup seconded,to approve the Consent Agenda as amended,with the addition of
Items Nos.8, 10,and 15. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
2. CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 25,2017
3. CLAIMSBILLS
4. APPROVAL OF TOBACCO LICENSE
5. APPROVAL OF OFF-SALE INTOXICATING LIQUOR LICENSE
6. #17-3965 GORDON JAMES OB/O DAVID AND LYNN GUTERMUTH,2665 CASCO
POINT ROAD,VARIANCE—RESOLUTION NO.6796
7. #17-3967 HENDEL HOMES OB/O MICHAEL AND VANESSA SMITH,3060 NORTH
SHORE DRIVE,VARIANCES—RESOLUTION NO. 6797
8. APPLICATION FOR HENNEPIN COUNTY YOUTH SPORTS FACILITY GRANT
RESOLUTION NO.6798
10. #17-3954 LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT/CITY OF ORONO SITE PLAN
APPROVAL FOR EMERGENCY DOCK
15. CENTURY LINK CONTRACT
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Bill Wolfson, 3399 Crystal Bay Road, stated he and his neighbors would like to discuss the removal,
maintenance,and safety issues with the speed bumps on their road. Wolfson stated the residents are
interested in finding a more permanent solution.
Walsh suggested he speak with the Public Works Director.
Page 1 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
PUBLIC WORKS/CITY ENGINEER REPORT
None
PLANNING DEPARTMENT REPORT,JON SCHWINGLER,REPRESENTATIVE
9. #13-3606 YOUR BOAT CLUB,LLCBROWN'S BAY,LLC, 1444 SHORELINE DRIVE—
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT FOR BOAT CLUB USE—RESOLUTION NO.
6799
Barnhart reviewed his Staff report dated October 9, 2017,regarding the expansion of the number of Boat
Club boat slips from 20 to 30. In 2013,the City accepted a completed application to increase the number
of boat slips,which was later tabled pending receipt of additional information. The applicant has not
submitted that additional information and Staff has issued extensions since that time. If a decision is not
made by October 15, 2017,the application is deemed approved per state statute and the number of boat
slips devoted to Your Boat Club may increase to 30. Staff recommends adoption of the denial resolution.
Barnhart noted the applicant can submit a new application for approval after six months and go through
the approval process. No public hearing has been held at the Planning Commission level since 2013.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Printup moved,Crosby seconded,to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 6799,a ResoluNon Denying the
Conditional Use Permit amendment for the Your Boat Club, 1444 Shoreline Drive,File No.
13-3606. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
10. #17-3954 LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT/CITY OF ORONO SITE PLAN
APPROVAL FOR EMERGENCY DOCK
This item was added to the Consent Agenda.
11. #17-3964 MARY SCHOMMER,3635 TOGO ROAD—SKETCH PLAN
Curtis reviewed her October 9,2017, Staff report regarding a proposal to subdivide a single lot into three
lots at 3635 Togo Road. The Planning Commission at its September 18 meeting reviewed the proposal
and was generally in favor of allowing some flexibility regarding the contiguous lot area minimums,
setbacks,and the width of the right-of-way dedicated along Northern Avenue. No comments from the
public were received at the Planning Commission meeting.
Ralph Kempf, 3675 Togo Road, stated he is here tonight representing Mary Schommer. This is a sketch
plan,with the goal to obtain a clear statement from the City Council on how they would anticipate going
forward with the proposed 3-lot subdivision. There is a minimum of one-half acre for each lot,which
would be met. The center of this lot consists of wetland which makes these lots noncontiguous.
Kempf noted there is a development that is not only very close in the neighborhood but also very close in
timeline to this application that was approved within the last year and a half.
Curtis displayed an aerial photograph of the area.
Page 2 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL,MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
11. #17-3964 MARY SCHOMMER,3635 TOGO ROAD—SKETCH PLAN—Continued
Kempf pointed out the Northern Oaks development on the aerial photograph,noting that at the center of
those lots is a pond resulting in the lots in that development not being contiguous and that in his opinion
this is a clear precedent in both time and issue,which the Planning Commission also agreed with. .
Kempf noted the Planning Commission had some questions about the setback from the road. A 30-foot
setback was allowed with Northern Oaks,but in this situation, a 30-foot setback would make the two lots
on the Northern Avenue side unbuildable. Kempf stated the one difference is that Northern Oaks was
totally willing to give up frontage because their goal was to have as many lots as they possibly could. In
the Northern Oaks subdivision,they have seven lots,with each of them being approximately 78 feet in
width. In this situation there will be two lots,with one lot being 100 feet wide and the other being 107
feet wide.
The other issue for consideration tonight is the right-of-way. Kempt stated the roadway for Northern
Avenue was vacated a long time ago and half of the street is owned by the Railroad Authority and the
other half is owned by the applicant. Kempf indicated Mary is willing to relinquish her right to the street
since she would prefer not to have to plow it. Kempf stated if the same 30 feet is taken,these lots would
be unbuildable due to the configuration of the wetland.
Kempf stated another item for discussion is the fact that Mary did enter into an agreement with the City a
number of years ago to provide an easement alongside the subject property. Part of that agreement was
that the City agreed to have two sewer stubs installed on Northern Avenue for this lot. Kempf stated it is
his feeling that that shows intent of the City at that time to allow two lots and that Mary has paid the
special assessment on those some time ago.
Crosby asked what size homes are being considered for the two lots.
Kempf stated that is unknown at this time since they are only at the sketch plan stage and that they are
looking for a clear statement from the City Council that this is a plan that they would approve at some
point in the future.
Walsh commented he appreciates the extra width on the two lots and that he feels the same as the
Planning Commission in that some flexibility should be given. Walsh stated there are the two stubs and
the development seems like a natural fit.
Printup asked what right-of-way they are looking for.
Kempf stated it is his understanding Staff is recommending 15 feet and that would likely work for this
subdivision. Kempf noted they have also contacted the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District and that
there might be some wetland buffer flexibility. Kempf stated it would be possible to have a smaller
buffer on the two Northern Avenue lots and then take a bit more on the Togo Road side. Kempf stated
there are a number of options between what Staff has proposed and the MCWD and that he does not
envision any problems with that going forward.
Dankey asked if the City would need to change the zoning to allow this.
Page 3 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
11. #17-3964 MARY SCHOMMER,3635 TOGO ROAD—SKETCH PLAN—Continued
Walsh indicated the zoning would not need to change and that they are looking to create two new lots
under the current zoning. Walsh noted the issues relate to the pond in the middle of the site and the right-
of-way. Otherwise all the same zoning standards would apply.
Kempf stated Staff has mentioned that one option might be an RPUD,which occurred with Northern
Oaks to his understanding,and that it would not be a rezoning.
Curtis indicated there are different ways the City can be flexible with the subdivision and the contiguous
areas. Staff and the applicant are wondering whether the City Council would be amenable to allowing
some flexibility on this subdivision or whether they would prefer a straight LR-1 C plat.
Crosby asked if Staff is generally looking for a 30-foot setback.
Curtis stated there is a 30-foot standard for the district,and if something different is proposed,that would
be built into the application.
Kempf pointed out a subdivisiori is about the only time where the City can actually obtain a 30-foot
setback. Kempf noted the lots just to the west of this property are not going to be subdivided since they
do not have a 30-foot setback. As a result,the City will never have an opportunity to have a continuous
30-foot right-of-way along the entire street and there is no advantage to the City for having a wider right-
of-way in this section of Northern Avenue.
It was the consensus of the City Council that they would be in favor of allowing reasonable flexibility on
this subdivision.
The City Council took no formal action on this item.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE
Curtis reviewed her October 9,2017, Staff report regarding a request for variances to develop a vacant
nonconforming property. After receiving feedback from the Planning Commission,the applicant has
eliminated the structural and hardcover encroachments into the 75-foot lake setback. The applicant
continues to request lot area and lot width variances,an average lakeshore setback variance, and a rear
yard setback variance to permit a revised,reduced setback. Following the public hearing and further
discussion by the Planning Commission, it was recommended the application be denied.
Staff recommends the Council consider approval of the lot width, lot area, and average lakeshore setback
variances. Lot width and lot area variances are frequently given and average lakeshore setbacks are often
given when the lot is unbuildable,typically when the lot is on a point or peninsula. The Council should
consider the applicant's requested rear setback variance to allow a 5.6 foot setback. Staff recommends a
10-foot setback from the rear be maintained.
Mike Sharratt, Sharratt Design,commented they know this is a difficult piece of property but that it
should be pointed out that there are old foundations on the property from an old house and a garage.
Sharratt stated at one time this property had a single-family house on it but that they do not know what
Page 4 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
size the house was. In addition,the property has a sewer stub,a separate tax I.D.number,and consists of
almost 10,000 square feet.
Sharratt stated they are attempting to do something that is responsible and realistic but still be something
that has value. Sharratt noted on the left side of the plan is the original buildable area that the applicant
was told was possible and it consists of 1,188 square feet of buildable area. After it was discovered there
was a mistake in the City Code and that it was really a 30-foot setback,the right side is now the buildable
area. That area consists of about 588 square feet and would even require the average lakeshore setback
variance. Sharratt noted it is impossible for this lot to meet the average lakeshore setback,which is a
practical difficulty.
Sharratt indicated he has designed a small,two-bedroom home. On the main level there will be a small
two-car garage,a powder room, a stairway, a kitchen,a living room,and dining space. The total footprint
is 1,465 square feet and up to 2,000 square feet is permitted on lots less than 10,000 square feet. Sharratt
stated that is approximately 73 percent of the allowable structural footprint. On the second floor there
will be a master bedroom and two other smaller bedrooms. Have 966 square feet or approximately 20
percent hardcover where 25 percent is normally allowed.
Sharratt stated they meet the street side setback,the side yard setback of 8.3 feet, and have pushed the
building back 4.5 feet on the southeast corner to abide by the 75-foot line. Sharratt stated by pushing the
house back at an angle,it creates 5.6 feet and 11.4 feet for rear yard setbacks,which they know is
significantly less than 30 feet. Sharratt stated recognizing that the house is really pretty small by all
standards,they felt that was the least impactful way to get something that is reasonable.
Sharratt noted the property line is the dark line on the map and that there is a fence line that almost
parallels the northern property line. Sharratt stated they believe that is the other property owner's fence
but that a portion of the fence is on this lot. Sharratt indicated that fence line is another reason why they
had paralleled that to the 75-foot line.
In addition,they had originally had proposed hardcover in the 0-75 foot zone for a patio,which has been
removed. A roof deck has instead been incorporated to allow for some outside space. Sharratt stated they
also are proposing a flat roof to be responsive to the concerns of the neighbors about their views. Under
City Code,the house could be much higher than that. Sharratt indicated there is a stairway from the
master bedroom to a motorized flat door that opens up on the upper deck.
Sharratt stated they are exceeding the right side yard setback by almost 2 feet but comply with the left
side setback of 8.3 feet,and comply with the 75-foot setback from the lake.
Dankey asked what the height of the building is.
Sharratt indicated it is 25'/3"where 30 feet is allowed.
Crosby asked if the one setback is 5.6 feet.
Curtis indicated it is and that the required side yard setback is 8.3 feet.
Page 5 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
Sharratt stated at the Planning Commission meeting there was a comment about parking. Sharratt noted
the proposed driveway is 42 feet long and that they will be able to park four cars off the street. Sharratt
indicated when he visited this site,there were cars parked all the way up and down the road due to some
construction that was going on at another lot. Sharratt stated this lot will have four parking stalls off the
street and two in the garage.
Dankey asked how far t�iis house is to the house at the left.
Curtis noted it is approximately 9.1 feet to the corner of the property line and that Staff would have to
measure it to the house.
Sharratt stated it appears to be another 23 or 24 feet or so to the house.
Crosby noted the one corner is 5.6 feet.
Sharratt stated it is and that Staff is recommending the setback be 10 feet. Sharratt stated they did not
receive that recommendation until today.
Crosby asked what the required setback is.
Curtis indicated it is 30 feet.
Walsh stated most side yard setbacks are 10 feet and that rear yard setbacks are 30 feet.
Sharratt stated the real issue is that this is a compromising piece of property but that there are smaller lots
in Orono. Shamatt stated they did not propose as much as what was allowed and that the question is
whether or not this property is going to be allowed to be built on despite the fact that it is a lot of record
and can be put to reasonable use.
Dankey stated she is curious why someone would purchase this property given the past difficulties with
the property.
Sharratt indicated the lot was undeveloped for a number of years and that there was no real analysis put
together for a house. Sharratt stated what they are trying to do here is develop something that is
responsible and that they know there are very real practical difficulties with this piece of property.
Sharratt stated they are trying to solve as many of them as they can,but if nothing can be put on this
property,that is a different situation.
Walsh noted the City's hardcover regulations changed dramatically a couple of years,and from a
hardcover standpoint,the lot could not be built upon since the majority of the property is in the 0-75 foot
zone. The City now uses a different hardcover calculation, which allows something to be built on the lot.
Page 6 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
Dankey commented she would not have purchased the property since it does not seem to be buildable and
that she is curious why someone would purchase the property knowing how strict Orono's building
regulations are.
Sharratt noted if there was an existing structure on the lot,they would be allowed to tear it down and
replace it.
Walsh asked whether anyone from the public would like to comment on this application.
Les Delton, 1535 Orchard Beach Place, stated he has resided there since 1963 and that a house has not
existed on this lot for over 50 years. At the time the person purchased the property in 1980,they were
told the lot was unbuildable by the neighbors. In addition,it is a very wet lot,and when it rains, all the
water goes down onto this lot. Delton stated he has a concern that all the runoff will go into the lake once
hardcover is placed on the lot.
Delton noted that Mr. Sharratt states in his letter that this is a lot of record and was once used for
residential use. Delton stated in the 50-plus years he has lived there,there has not been a house on the
property but that there might have been a garage there. However,the neighbor who has lived there since
the 1940s thought it was more of a carriage house.
At the Planning Commission meeting, Sharratt stated the neighboring house will be a teardown at some
point in the future. Delton stated he believes that is the case for any house at some point but that his
house will not be torn down for quite a while, so that point does not matter.
Delton stated as it relates to practical difficulty, one of the criteria is that it does not alter the essential
character of the locality. Delton stated a house on this lot will not fit the neighborhood given the size of
this lot and the neighboring lots. Delton noted his lot is a little over.9 acre. Under No. 8 it states that
special conditions apply to the structure or land in question are peculiar to such property or the
immediately adjoining property. The applicant comments that the immediately adjoining properties and
most other properties in the neighborhood are three to ten times in size and therefore do not suffer the
same hardships. Delton noted this lot was originally platted as commons and not residential.
No. 9 states the conditions do not apply generally to the other land or other structures in the district in
which said land is located. The applicant replies that there are very similar, small lakeshore properties in
the area. Delton noted this area has a one acre requirement to build. No. 10,the granting of the
application is necessary for the enjoyment of the property and is a substantial property right of the
applicant. Delton stated in his view the hardship falls on the neighborhood since it will change the nature
of the neighborhood. Delton stated this is not a new situation and that the owner knew it was unbuildable
when they purchased it. Delton noted the Planning Commission stated that a number of times.
Delton noted many previous City Councils have rightfully turned this application down and that he would
like to thank this Council for their consideration of this. Delton commented he is passionate about the
neighborhood and that he wants to retain the integrity that it has. Delton stated it is a beautiful place and
that he loves living there. Delton stated this house is just going to change the neighborhood too much.
Page 7 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
William Settler,4209 North Shore Drive, stated Council Member Dankey's point about why anybody
would buy this property is worth noting. The property listed in 2014 at$100,000 for 83 feet of lakeshore
on Lake Minnetonka. Settler noted market values are nowhere near that unless the land is used as a boat
slip on the lake. Settler commented this would basically be dock space and a nice piece of grass to enjoy
on the lake. The property sat on the market and was not sold and in his view the market has spoken.
Settler noted the City's hardcover regulations did change and that in his view it simplified the job of the
Planning Commission and the City Council but then it also brings in some of these highly questionable
properties that were barred by history from being able to be built upon. Settler stated if you go to the
Hennepin County website,this lot was one of the properties that was tagged as vacation/recreational use,
and it has not been tagged by Hennepin County as a true residential lot as most of the lots in Orono have
been. Settler stated there was a huge impact on them when someone was allowed to build in front of their
house.
Settler stated these are long lots and they all have added hardcover over the years. If the lot is already wet
and a house is built on it,the situation it will create is that they will be back asking for all kinds of
approval to deal with the drainage. Settler stated every summer they are out on their property trying to
get the water to drain and their lot is three-quarters of an acre. Settler stated adding that much hardcover
that close to the lake is a really important point and that he does not believe the Commission should allow
anyone to build on the lake without dedicated patio space because ten years from now there will be a
patio there. Settler stated they will build inside the envelope and then other stuff will creep in,which will
create other problems with runoff.
Shawn McDermott, 1530 Orchard Beach Road, stated they are located on the east side of the proposed
house. McDermott stated this house will be in front of their house and that all of their west facing
windows will look at this house. McDermott noted the applicant said that it is 30 feet from the comer of
this house to his house and that 10 yards is not very much. McDermott stated in his view it is ignoring
the character of the neighborhood. In addition, it appears that everyone is completely glossing over the
100-foot setback since it has never been mentioned.
McDermott indicated he is a new resident to the community and that he bought his house in December of
2015 and did some renovations to the property. McDermott stated he moved from North Oaks,
Minnesota,who has pretty strict property standards and has resulted in pretty stable property values,and
that Orono's property values have stayed high because of the high standards. McDermott stated what he
enjoys most about Orono is the police force and that he would like to thank the police department for
keeping the traffic speeds down.
McDermott stated as a certified financial planner,he has to follow a code of ethics and that his fiduciary
standard is to put his clients' interests first. McDermott noted the City's website has the City's code of
ethics right there and that the cornerstone of the city's government in Minnesota is the collected City
Council. The City Council fashions the policies that determine a community's present and future well-
being. Citizens look to their local government for leadership in planning and managing the community
development. McDermott stated the City Council is here for the residents.
Page 8 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
McDermott stated he has done a lot of research on these issues over the past few weeks and that he has
spoken with real estate attorneys,the mayor,Council Member Printup,and read through hundreds of
pages of ordinances and codes. McDermott stated he has a pretty good understanding of what is going on
and that there is a real argument over whether this is residential property or common property and that
there is good basis to vote no on this application. The definition of whether it is common property or
residential property depends and that the state code says one thing,the county code says another thing,
and city code says another thing. McDermott stated Mayor Walsh told him that city code supersedes state
code as far as a platted lot,and that the chair of the Planning Commission pointed out to him that this lot
is zoned residential for the City of Orono but not platted residential. McDermott stated if you look at the
residential map,this is considered to be a low to medium density residential area that requires two to
maybe three homes per acre.
McDermott stated what they are proposing is a house on a .22 acre property. McDermott stated in his
view the Council can just forget about the character of the neighborhood and that just because it is a small
piece of land does not mean it has to be developed. If that was the case,all of the City's common space
would disappear and that this lot has not been built on in 100 years.
McDermott noted the intent of the City ordinances is to protect the community and the best interests of
everyone as a whole. McDermott stated the builder bought it as an unbuildable lot and has stated that he
is entitled to reasonable use of the property. Orono Code states that he does have reasonable use for a
seasonal recreational property and that he can use the property for that specific purpose but not
residential.
McDermott stated it is his understanding the applicant has originally asked for 11 variances.
Curtis noted the applicant is not requesting 11 variances but that he is requesting lot area,lot width,
average lakeshore setback, and a rear setback variance. The applicant has removed their request for a
75-foot setback variance and a hardcover variance within the 0-75 foot zone.
McDermott asked about the 144-foot setback.
Curtis indicated that is the lot width requirement.
McDermott asked what the average lakeshore setback to the homes in the neighborhood is.
Curtis stated in this case it is the measurement from the lake to the house to the west,which is the average
lakeshore setback. Curtis stated the average lakeshore setback is located off this lot and that they cannot
meet that.
McDermott stated there is a house setback,the deck setback,the stoop setback,and the sidewalk setback.
Crosby asked how many total variance requests there are today.
Curtis indicated there are four.
Page 9 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
McDermott stated if he was evaluating this as a financial advisor and 11 red flags go up,he would just
say this does not work. McDermott stated he would encourage the City Council to put the community
first and vote this application down.
Richie Anderson, 3205 Crystal Bay Road, asked if this lot has a sewer stub.
Walsh indicated it does.
Anderson asked if the City has minimum building sites.
Curtis indicated they do not.
Anderson asked if they are telling him that a person cannot put a building on this lot. Anderson indicated
he has two lots,one being .33 acres and the other being .35 acres,and that he does not want this applicant
showing up at his place telling him he can't build on those two lots. Anderson stated it does not make
sense,and that if they want to adjust the house,they should be able to build on the lot. Anderson asked if
they can build some type of house on the property.
Walsh stated that is what the City Council is going to discuss.
Anderson stated in his view the lot is buildable with the right house.
Pat Cleveland,4315 North Shore Drive, stated she is in agreement with the comments her neighbors have
made and that in her view there are too many variances being requested,which shows that this is not the
proper use of the property. Cleveland stated she thinks it could be a dangerous precedent for the City
Council if all these variances are allowed and that when they built their house,they respected the
regulations. Cleveland stated in her mind the property owner made a bad investment and the burden is on
the purchaser to look at the current regulations when they are purchasing a property. Given the number of
variances,most people would not purchase it.
Doug Waldoch,4215 North Shore Drive, stated if you look up and down the shoreline,you see trees,but
on the other hand,if you look across West Arm,you see shoreline that is not in Orono where there are
many, many homes with no buffer from the lake. Waldoch stated he believes what they have in the
neighborhood reflects the City's plans and regulations that have been in place and it looks the way it does
because of that. The opposite shoreline is a definite contract.
Lisa Wysocki, 1555 Orchard Beach Place, stated her grandparents purchased the property in 1958 and
that her mother has lived on this property since 1958 as well. Wysocki stated since they have been here
the longest,they have a lot of history with the property. Wysocki indicated the Deaconess Hospital and
the Lutheran Brotherhood owned all of that land from the top of Saga Hill down to the S-curve
approximately 100 years ago and that they were involved in platting this land and that this lot was
originally platted as a commons lot. Wysocki stated when she was young,the nuns would come and fish
and that she remembers them telling her that that little house was actually a common meeting area
consisting of a three-sided open air structure. The garage that was on the property was actually a 3-hole
outhouse.Wysocki stated she wanted to correct that for the record.
Page 10 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.,MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
Wysocki noted in 1964, 1967, 1968, 1977, 1978,2013 and 2015 the Planning Commission and Orono
City Council have denied building on this lot. Wysocki stated she can remember water standing on this
lot numerous times for the past 60 years and that it serves as a drainage field for a five or six acre area.
Wysocki stated the lot is filtering that runoff before it goes into the lake and that they are concerned about
the quality of the lake if a house is built on this property. Wysocki noted the lake has a lot of pollution
problems already and that they want to make sure the lake is good for generations to come.
Wysocki stated at the time the lot was purchased by Mr. Pfeffer,he came up their driveway and talked to
her mother and grandmother as well as some of the other neighbors. Mr.Pfeffer knew it was an
unbuildable lot at that time and that the purchase was a bad business investment and not a good place to
build a home.
Wysocki noted they will not be tearing down their home either and that they will be there for a long
period of time.
Wysocki stated as it relates to the average lakeshore setback, it will be totally out of character for the
neighborhood to have a home so far in front of the average lakeshore setback and does not fit in with the
rest of the homes. In addition,the City's Community Management Plan does not support the
development of substandard property.
Wysocki stated in her opinion there is no reasonable expectation that the owner,when he purchased it,
could build on this lot. Wysocki indicated whenever she buys a car or a piece of property, she does her
due diligence,which this person should have done. Had that been done,it would not have been a surprise
that the lot is unbuildable. Wysocki stated there are also issues with the impacts on the environment and
that the City Council should do what is right for the citizens. Wysocki stated it is much more of a
hardship for the neighbors.
Mary Settler,4209 North Shore Drive, stated they have resided on their property for ten years and that
they enjoy watching the wildlife in this area. Settler noted there is an eagle that currently lives on this
property and that it would be a disappointment if the trees are removed.
Charles Tied,4345 North Shore Drive, stated he works in the environmental field and that he has noticed
from the top corner of the lot to where the house is going to be consists of four or five contours. Tied
stated it is very,very boggy there with constant runoff and that the applicant will have to do a lot of work
on the lot to facilitate the drainage.
There were no further public comments.
Seals asked if this lot is considered for seasonal recreational use.
Curtis stated that is what Hennepin County has it classified as because it is a non-homesteaded property.
Rief stated the tax classification is separate from the City's zoning.
Page 11 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE (PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
Seals stated theoretically, if there was something there before on the property, it was not 25 feet tall and
probably one story. Seals stated the proposal is not in like and kind since it is two-story with a deck on
top.
Curtis stated the applicants are also not proposing to build in like and kind.
Crosby stated he is concerned about the setbacks.
Walsh stated the applicant is requesting variances to lot area, lot area,rear setback,and average lakeshore
setback. Walsh stated the Council already knows that the average lakeshore setback is not on this
property so the applicant cannot meet it no matter what happens and that the City typically approves lot
width and lot area. Walsh stated the rear setback is different and that typically nobody gets to be closer
than 10 feet from the side yard setback. Walsh stated in this situation he views the rear setback as being
similar to the side setback and that in his view ten feet is the basic minimum.
Curtis noted given the recent code amendment allowing the 10 percent width,the applicants are
conforxning with an 8.3 foot setback. Curtis stated 10 feet is pretty common but that this lot is afforded
the flexibility of that setback if treating it like a side setback.
Walsh stated lot area and lot width variances are pretty much granted in the City and that the applicants
cannot meet the average lakeshore setback. Walsh stated in his view the rear setback is the issue.
Seals commented she struggles with this lot because it seems like a bad idea. Seals noted she understands
the point about Crystal Bay but that the other homes in the area are already there.
Walsh stated this is similar to Rest Point Lane that had a lot with a .22 acre lot on the corner with similar
issues.
Crosby stated the setbacks were not this bad.
Seals stated it seems like it is being stretched in this case but that she does not want to say nothing can be
built on the lot.
Crosby stated he would like to hear from the person who purchased the lot.
Frederick Johnson,property owner, stated he purchased the property in 2013 and he was told it was a
residential lot of record and that it had a sewer stub to the property. Johnson indicated it had a house at
some point and a full garage that was torn down within the past 20 years.
Crosby asked if the realtor told him it was a buildable lot.
Johnson stated the realtor never said it was a buildable lot. Johnson indicated he has built on lots in the
Crystal Bay neighborhood that were 50' x 80' or 4,000 square foot lots with 2,000 square foot building
pads. Johnson stated he is now looking at a 10,000 square foot lot and he is having a hard time getting
1,400 square feet. Johnson stated he is willing to pull it back to meet the 10-foot back yard setback.
Page 12 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
Dankey asked if he ever saw the history of the property.
Johnson indicated he did not see that and that he has had the property since 2013. Johnson stated he has
built on 4,000 square foot lots in the City of Orono many times and has never had any problems.
Walsh commented they probably were not lakeshore lots.
Johnson stated some were platted lakeshore lots in the Crystal Bay neighborhood.
Crosby stated in that neighborhood the houses are more condensed and that it is a different style
neighborhood.
Dankey stated if she had built one of those houses on either side of this lot, she would have tried to buy
this lot,but at the same time everyone is trying to abide by the building laws and they bought the lots that
they could build on.
Printup asked what the builder feels about the water runoff.
Johnson indicated he would be the builder and that the building envelope is approximately 30 feet above
the rest of the lot. Johnson stated the runoff is at the 75-foot setback.
Dankey noted the corner of the lot is very steep.
Johnson noted they are not building in a marsh and that the building area is sitting up quite high.
Printup commented the rear setback variance would allow the house to be squared up.
Les Delton stated the garage fell down in probably 1980 and that it really was not a garage. Delton stated
maybe someone could have parked a car in it but that it was at least 1980 or 1981 when it fell down and
that it has been 50 some years where there has not been a house on the property.
Walsh stated the question is whether they should be allowed some flexibility on the rear setback or
whether they should be required to comply with the 30-foot setback.
Printup asked what a lot of record means.
Mattick stated the City Code anticipates that zoning ordinances will change over time but that there will
be existing lots. Mattick stated if the lot meets certain minimum criteria and was established by a certain
date,it will be considered a lot of record,which allows someone to build on it at some point. Mattick
stated a lot of record would not lose the rights it had earlier on.
Walsh stated the lot is buildable but the building envelope is very small.
Pat Cleveland noted this lot cannot meet the average lakeshore setback.
Printup stated that could be considered a practical difficulty since it is considered a lot of record.
Page 13 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE (PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
Mattick stated it is rare where the average lakeshore setback eliminates the entire lot.
McDermott stated the applicant created his own practical difficulty because he bought a lot that was
unbuildable and taxed as recreation/seasonal use. McDermott stated the applicant would not be able to
homestead the property himself because it is against state statutes for him to do that. McDermott
commented he finds it hard to believe that a builder does not look at the regulations impacting a property
before purchasing it.
Mattick stated a practical difficulty is a zoning issue and the tax classification is irrelevant.
Seals stated it appears the blue area is the only buildable area and is a fraction of what they are proposing.
Walsh noted it is approximately half.
Dankey stated she would feel much different if there was currently a house there and that someone should
know whether they are buying a buildable lot. Dankey stated in her view the blue area is the buildable
area. Dankey noted$100,000 is probably what someone would pay for ten years to rent space to put a
boat at.
Walsh noted the City does not allow a dock to be placed on a vacant piece of land without a principal
residence.
Crosby stated the applicant can build in the blue area and the City should enforce the setbacks.
Printup stated he would be okay with granting a 10-foot rear yard setback variance as well as an average
lakeshore setback variance and lot area and lot width variances.
Crosby and Dankey indicated they would not be in favor of that.
Printup stated he does not want to say they cannot do anything there since it is a lot of record. Printup
noted the City has granted lot azea and lot width variances before and that it is not possible to meet the
average lakeshore setback,which makes it a practical difficulty. Printup stated the question comes down
to the rear yard setback.
Crosby asked if Council Member Printup is willing to compromise on this. Crosby commented the lot
might be buildable but it is not buildable for the structure that the parties want.
Dankey stated she likes the fact that they brought it back to the 75 feet and that it looks like three out of
four questionable variances can be dealt with. Dankey stated she does not like how close the house is to
the property line,especially given the steep corner. Dankey stated when she visited the property earlier in
the day,the area was totally wet.
Walsh noted with a 30-foot setback,the applicants would get the little blue box to build in.
Seals stated when she was campaigning and talking with the residents, it seemed like in the areas where
the homes were close together there were issues with runoff, and that in her view they might be opening
Pandora's Box if this property already has issues with runoff. Seals stated she understands that the little
Page 14 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
12. #17-3968 SHARRATT DESIGN AND COMPANY OB/O FREDERICK AND PATRICIA
JOHNSON, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID 07-117-23-0026)—VARIANCE—Continued
blue box is the buildable area but that there is a cliff in the back and it is likely the City will have to
approve a whole bunch of earth moving.
Crosby moved,Dankey seconded,to deny the rear setback variance and to grant the lot area,lot
width,and average lakeshore setbacks for Application No. 17-3968,Sharratt Design&Company
on behalf of Frederick and Patricia Johnson, 1565 Orchard-Beach Place. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
(Recess taken from 8:47 p.m.to 8:58 p.m.)
13. LONG LAKE PERSONAL WATERCRAFT REGULATION
Barnhart reviewed his October 9,2017, Staff report to amend the City Code relative to personal
watercraft on Long Lake. Back in July a Long Lake resident informed the City Council that the rules for
Long Lake were different than the rules for Lake Minnetonka. The City Council directed Staff to provide
some additional information. Since that time the City of Long Lake has taken steps to remove the unique
restrictions and that Staff is looking for direction from the City Council on whether they should proceed
forward with an amendment to the City Code.
Printup stated pairing up with Long Lake makes sense.
There was no public input regarding this item.
Dankey stated she did not see anywhere that said what Long Lake is going to do.
Barnhart indicated the Long Lake City Council adopted an ordinance late last month basically adopting
the DNR rules. Barnhart noted the northern shore and western shore is Orono property and that they
might experience some issues with noise. Barnhart indicated the Council can discuss that during the
review of the ordinance.
Seals moved,Dankey seconded,to direct Staff to draft an amendment to the ordinance regulating
personal watercraft on Long Lake to parallel the DNR regulations. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS
Barnhart reviewed his Staff report dated October 9, 2017,regarding a possible City Code amendment to
regulate short-term rentals. Barnhart stated the issue is more and more properties are renting or leasing
their property to vacation renters. Many times those rentals have impacted the neighbors. Staff does not
support an ordinance amendment since adding a regulation either outright prohibiting and/or severely
restricting the short-term rental of a property owner's home impacts their property rights and punishes the
property owners and renters that are respectful of the rules and would only add redundant regulation to
city ordinances. Currently the City has rules and ordinances that regulate various nuisances and crimes.
Crosby asked what some of the neighboring cities are doing.
Page 15 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—Continued
Barnhart indicated there is a mix,with a number of cities regulating rental housing,with short-term
rentals being a component of that,and some cities just regulating short-term rentals. The City of
Shoreview prohibits short-term rentals.
Dankey asked if any of the cities have said that something in particular has worked for them.
Barnhart stated the question comes down to how many resources Orono can put on enforcing an
ordinance. Barnhart stated the City of Plymouth regulates short-term rentals but they have much more
resources to conduct frequent inspections and then other cities do an inspection once every three to five
years. In 2015, Staff proposed requiring a license that was intended to identify an onsite manager that
could be contacted with any complaints.
Walsh noted originally when the Council discussed this,one issue was having someone that could be
contacted in the event of an issue. Walsh stated a new issue is how the City protects itself against sex
offenders coming in on a short-term rental as well as the number of people in the rental house.
Barnhart stated if the City requires a license, someone would need to be in charge of the rental,but that he
is not sure how the City could regulate the number of people in the house. Barnhart stated from a building
code perspective,there is a capacity question on a home,but that he does not know how the City would
be able to track that outside of responding to complaints. Currently the City has regulations addressing
parking,traffic,and noise.
Dankey asked if it is possible to restrict the number of people through the licensing process.
Barnhart stated there is probably a way to limit it and that Staff can take a look at that.
Seals stated she used to own rental properties in Duluth and that they would require a license. Seals
stated if she had so many complaints against the property, she was at risk of losing her license and that
she made sure she had rules in place. Seals stated in her view this conversation is about people being
good citizens.
Mattick stated with the advent of AirBnb, short-term rentals have become more popular and that the
question is whether the Council is looking to distinguish short-term rentals from other rentals. Mattick
stated what would help the most is to identify the problem the City is trying to solve, such as noise or
parking.
Police Chief Farniok stated as it relates to sex offenders,the police department monitors them when they
move here and use a permanent address. Farniok noted there is no way the police department could ever
address the situation such as the one that occurred in Minnetonka,especially if they do not yet have that
sex offender designation.
Farniok stated the police department has not seen huge issues with the short-term rentals and that they
currently have regulations to address situations with noise,parking,etc. Farniok stated he does not know
if those issues pertain to just regular homeowners or rentals. Farniok stated the City can probably expect
to see an increase in complaints with the Super Bowl.
Page 16 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 dclock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—Continued
Printup stated in his view the upcoming Super Bowl is why it is important to have something in Orono's
tool box to deal with the short-term rentals. Printup stated the City Council also needs to think about the
stranger component with the short-term rentals and that there is the potential of different people coming in
every weekend. Printup stated the City would be able to go after the property owner if they have
something on the books and that in his view short-term rentals should only occur at a homesteaded
property rather than a non-homesteaded property.
Farniok noted if there is a violation relating to current code,the police department can enforce that now
and that they will continue to address situations as they arise.
Dankey asked if a week-long rental would be more beneficial than a weekend rental. Dankey stated in
her view a family would be more likely to rent for a week and that a bachelor party would likely be just
over the weekend.
Farniok stated he does not see a difference since it depends on what the property is and how it is being
used.
Walsh stated summertime is probably when the most abuse happens and that the City needs something in
the tool box to address issues. Walsh stated the homestead versus non-homesteaded is something to
consider and that longer term rentals tend to provide more stability than a weekend rental.
Walsh asked if anyone from the public would like to comment on this item.
Bill Wolfson, 3399 Crystal Bay Road, stated he did live next to a VRBO that was owned by Matt Johnson
and that he never had any issues. Wolfson indicated he also has a VRBO and that the burden is on him to
prequalify the people to make sure they are good renters. In addition,the city requires him to have a
license and that the house has the typical safety features like smoke detectors. Wolfson stated that system
works well. The online systems also allow the property owners to rate people so the renters know they
have accountability or a track record.
Wolfson noted someone could have a bad long-term renter and that the property owner has less recourse
against them. Wolfson stated the price point in Orono defends a little bit against a bad renter. Wolfson
stated the City currently has regulations here against noise and parking and that further regulations
reducing private property rights is a concern for him. Wolfson stated whenever the City starts to regulate
something new, everyone does a mad dash to say they are existing or to get a license.
Walsh stated the question is whether the property owner's rights outweigh the neighbors' property rights.
Wolfson commented he is not sure whether there is any hard data that Orono is experiencing any issues.
Dankey stated she is in agreement with the property rights and that in her view a license works.
Wolfson stated he also pays a fee every time he rents the property out to help offset the City's
enforcement costs. ,
Printup stated the price point could also mean that more people share in the rental fee.
Page 17 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—ConNnued
Kristi Anderson, 1408 Baldur Park Road,noted she did send an e-mail to each of the Council Members
yesterday enumerating the reasons why they have been experiencing issues. Anderson stated the
Minnesota Short-term Rental Agreement references Shorewood and the fact that they do not have the
resources to possibly enforce a lot of issues,which is why they chose to prohibit them. The City of
Savage banned rental of homes for shorter than 15 days because they felt it rose to the level of a business.
Anderson stated the question is whether the right of someone to rent their property rises to the level of a
business,and if the City Council is looking at creating a resort atmosphere similar to Stillwater,even they
have put other restrictions on it,such as limiting the number of rentals and limiting the number of
bedrooms that can be rented out. Stillwater has also adopted a policy of three strikes and you are out.
Anderson stated there are a lot of tools and resources out there that can be implemented and that she is
hoping Orono will have this conversation because as a resident she feels the use has intensified over the
past few years.
Anderson stated they have major safety concerns with short-term rentals because they now have strangers
that are renting next door. The house is on a 50-foot lot and the online advertising for the house states
that it accommodates 12 to 15,which turns into a party. Anderson indicated she has a daughter who does
not want to step outside because she gets heckled and is subject to lewd comments if she has a swimming
suit on. Anderson commented it is appalling to her that every time she steps outside she has to see if
there is a dog out there that might attack or whether someone else is out there. Anderson stated she is not
quite sure that this is something the Council has given much thought to. Anderson questioned why the
City is protecting the renters as opposed to all the neighbors who are paying their taxes and are
homesteaded and want to protect the character of their neighborhood.
Anderson stated her neighborhood consists of 50-foot lots and the residents are very close to each other.
Every weekend there is a different party that brings in anywhere from 12 to 28 cars. Baldur Park Point is
a small,narrow street,and if there are 28 cars there for a party at a rental house,it deters everyone from
enjoying their leisure time.
Anderson stated the City Council should consider whether short-term rentals belong on a small lot like
hers. Anderson noted the City of Prior Lake used a sliding scale to limit the number of people and to
allow something more reasonable. If the house has four bedrooms,maybe eight people are allowed.
Anderson stated there have also been weddings at the neighboring house and that they asked if they could
hang lights from their trees. Anderson stated they are used to being very neighborly but that this has
stifled all that.
Anderson stated she also works every day and that at midnight,when the renters are outside still partying,
she will ask them to be quiet but then the voices rise again. Anderson stated the neighbor suggested they
close their windows,which they have done,but that they can still hear the activity and partying going on
even with the windows shut. Anderson stated two weeks ago there was a bachelor party and at 3 a.m. the
guys ran out in the yard to go skinny dipping in the lake. Anderson commented she does not want to have
to call the police every time something happens but that she will do that if that is what it takes.
In addition,the renters will leave the trash out for several days,the trash ends up getting knocked over,
and the neighbors have to pick up what is blowing around. Anderson stated the neighbors should not
Page 18 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—ConNnued
have to be encumbered with this. In addition,because they are having a number of people on a small lot,
they are overflowing onto the neighbor's lot. Last weekend someone was trying to up someone else with
their sexual escapades. Anderson stated she overhears that as well as her kids and that the people do not
belong there and that it is not right for this zone or area.
Anderson stated this is a good time to discuss this since the Super Bowl is coming up. Anderson stated
she does not want Orono to become a pocket resort area and that she would also oppose hotel licenses
going out. Anderson stated if they go by the MN Department of Health guidelines, short-term rentals
have risen to the level of a hotel, and as such,regulations relating to fire code,disabilities, and other
things should go along with it but it is doubtful the City wants to get into managing those things.
Walsh commented his neighborhood has had longer-term renters over the years and just having a renter
changes the character of the neighborhood because they care differently about the neighborhood. Walsh
stated the City Council wants to tread lightly but tread well because it is important to protect the
community as a whole versus the individual homeowner.
Steve Elliott, 1400 Baldur Park Road, stated he moved into this neighborhood about five years ago
because it was a very family oriented neighborhood and is on a dead-end road. Elliott stated he likes to
spend a lot of time in the back yard or on the dock but that in the last year or two that has.completely
changed because of the next door property and the short-term renters that are in there. Elliott stated they
can get to know the people that are there a longer period of time but that it is mainly bachelor and
bachelorette parties.
Elliott stated he can no longer be outside anymore on the weekends with his daughter because by noon a
couple of the people will be drunk and they will be wrestling, fighting, and swearing. Elliott stated he is
uncomfortable being out there,and by 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon,his children cannot be out there given
the wlgar language. Later in the evening is when the strippers show up,which is not what should be
happening in Orono.
Elliott stated what also goes with that are the drugs. Elliott stated probably four or five weeks ago he was
sitting in his kitchen and there were two young gentlemen knocking at his glass door. Elliott stated he
stepped outside to talk with them and they said they are trying to buy drugs. Elliott stated that is the kind
of stuffthat you get when the City doesn't have regulations and you have two or three day rentals.
Elliott noted the issue with garbage was mentioned and that he typically spends a couple days a week
picking up trash. Elliott stated he also has to repair the ruts in his yard on a weekly basis from cars
parking on his yard. Elliott noted the property owner lives in Washington State and would not be
available if there is a problem. Elliott indicated he does text him to try to let him know what is going on
but that he says they should close the windows or just not go out there. Elliott stated it is not fair that he
is not able to use his property.
Elliott stated last summer there were renters that were hosting the wedding that Ms.Anderson referenced
and they had two huge Rottweilers that were not on leashes. Elliott indicated he was going to have
surgery that afternoon and one of the dogs charged him and knocked him down. Elliott stated he thought
he was
Page 19 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—Continued
going to get mauled. The next day there were two dogs there that did the same thing to his 12-year-old
and knocked him down right in the middle of their property.
Elliott stated the noise is just nonstop throughout the day and that they can't get away from it. Elliott
stated the language and stories go way too far and that there are also parking issues. Elliott stated the
renters take a lot of liberties and just park wherever. A couple of times there were boat trailers parked in
his driveway and that the renters are constantly trespassing. Elliott commented that would not be a
problem if the neighbors are coming in your yard or it's the neighbors' kids and you know them,but it is
an issue because these are strangers. Elliott stated generally they are 30 some year old men that are
intoxicated and playing drinking games.
Elliott stated it has gotten to a point where he would consider it out of control and that it has definitely
impacted his life. Elliott encouraged the City Council to consider some tight regulations or requiring a
longer rental period.
Matt Johnson, 1432 Shoreline Drive, stated he did own an VRBO next to Bill Wolfson and that when he
learned that several neighbors made complaints about the property to the City,he told the neighbors what
he was doing and gave them his number. Johnson stated some of the neighbors were really concerned
about not knowing the people in there,which he understands,but at the same time he travels and uses
VRBO all the time. Johnson stated he just bought a place in Florida and that that market has a lot of
VRBO and that it is a great service.
Johnson stated he does not care what the City decides,but that the people who are doing it well have
repeat customers. Johnson stated it is way more cost effective for the landlord to have longer-term
rentals. Johnson indicated he also had limitations on the number of cars that could be at his VRBO and
that he tried to make it clear it is a residential neighborhood. Johnson commented there are people who
are doing it well and effectively and that they have people booked out for a year in advance. Johnson
stated if the City decides to adopt something,they should give people some time to get their bookings and
that it is something for the Council to think about.
Johnson stated he supports accountability of the landlords whether it is short-term or long-term rental.
Johnson commented the Baldur Park rental seems like one terrible situation for sure that needs some law
enforcement involvement because it sounds like there are plenty of violations that are occurring there
regularly but that he does not want to punish everyone because of a couple specific problems.
Printup stated while it might be a great service,the question is whether Orono wants to do this.
Johnson noted there are not a bunch of hotel options in this area.
Crosby noted most places in Florida are for 30 days and they are longer term.
Dankey stated her rental in Florida is usually one week.
Page 20 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—Continued
Johnson stated it sounds like the Baldur Park property owner does not care about the neighbors and that in
his view some pressure should be put on him. Johnson stated even if the City puts a 30-day rental period
in their regulations,the owner will put a clause in there that if the renters leave early,they will be
refunded the difference,which is how they get around the longer rental period. Johnson questioned how
the City would be able to get involved with contracts like that.
Bill Anderson, 1408 Baldur Park Road,noted an hour ago they heard about how far ten yards is and then
watching the person step it of£ Anderson stated they are literally about five yards from the other yard.
Anderson stated if it was a 100-foot lot,he can see where it might not be that big of an issue,but that
small lots do not warrant having 10 to 15 to 20 people there at one time because it really is a party.
Anderson noted the City Council seen a picture of their street and the parked cars. Anderson stated he has
backed into two cars already and that parking is an issue. Anderson noted the City Council has
mentioned the property owner's rights,but that it all goes back to the other 20 homes that people live in
day in and day out and that it is not just about the guy who lives in Seattle.
Dankey asked if a three strike rule would work in the case of his neighborhood or licensing.
Anderson stated licensing should be mandatory but that he would like to see it prohibited in some
manner. Anderson noted a lot of the rental places in Florida are townhomes or condos and that it is a very
transient type of environment. Anderson stated Baldur Park Road is not transient and neither is 99
percent of Orono. Anderson stated it is a business next door and that it is a money maker for the property
owner. Anderson commented they have all heard the term NIMBY,or not in my back yard,but that he
would guarantee that anyone else who had these kinds of crowds in their back yards would be here,too.
Anderson stated he has a problem with calling the police on every little issue and wasting resources,but
that it will get to the point where the police department will be called on a regular basis.
Anderson recommended making the lot size a requisite as well as limiting the number of cars and people
in the home.
Printup stated he concurs that Orono is not transient,which basically sums up the situation. Printup stated
he would not want to live somewhere if there are strangers coming and going every weekend.
Richie Anderson,3205 Crystal Bay Road,commented this thing can be debated over and over again,but
the horror story would be if one of the guys who is hooting and hollering at their daughter would instead
try to solicit her or worst. Anderson stated when a sexual predator comes and lives in the community,the
police department knows that,but if someone rents a house for a day or a weekend,the police have no
clue.
Anderson stated the City Council should also not assume that the police department or the City has the
manpower to deal with this. Anderson stated in his view the City should adopt Shorewood's game plan
and say if you cannot afford your house on the lake,you should not have bought the property. Anderson
encouraged the City Council to be proactive on this because having someone raped in Orono due to a
rental would be a life-long issue for that person. Anderson asked who the City Council is trying to
appease,the five percent of the residents who want rentals in Orono or the 95 percent who do not.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
14. AUTHORIZATION TO REVIEW POSSIBLE ORDINANCE TO PROHIBIT SHORT-
TERM RENTALS—Continued
Crosby stated he has heard some great points tonight and that he would concur that Orono is not a
transient community. Crosby stated he would recommend the renters be given until January of 2018 as a
drop-dead date and that there should be no short-term rentals in Orono that are less than 30 days.
Seals stated the City should also look at long-term rentals and that this should be a two-pronged approach.
Seals stated in her view placing restrictions on short-term rentals are not limiting property rights at all
since they can still rent it out but that she would not want someone living next to her for a week that she
doesn't know. Seals stated if someone wants to rent their house long term,they should need a license,
have their house inspected,and background checks conducted.
Walsh stated whoever is renting,the cars have to fit in the driveway.
Printup stated he also is in agreement on the long-term rentals and no short-term rentals.
Walsh stated there should also be language stating that no terminations less than 30 days will be allowed.
Crosby stated the City needs to send a message that there will be no short-term rentals in Orono.
Barnhart recommended the City Council hold some sort of public hearing or listening session before
adopting a final version of the ordinance. Barnhart indicated he is not sure at this point where the
ordinance would fit,but if it is a zoning ordinance,that would require a hearing before the Planning
Commission.
Walsh stated he would like to get the process moving forward and that he would like it to be a two-
pronged approached. Walsh stated it also needs to be determined whether the City has the appropriate
manpower to deal with short-term and/or long-term rentals.
Dankey stated she is not in total agreement with the Council and that in her view a one week rental is very
different than a one or two night rental.
Walsh stated he likes tagging onto Shorewood's regulations.
Seals noted Greenwood also prohibits anything less than 30 days.
Crosby stated if someone is paying for a week but only want to be there for a day or two,the rent can be
adjusted, and that he would like to follow Shorewood's and Greenwood's lead in prohibiting short-term
rentals. Crosby indicated he is in agreement with reviewing the longer-term rentals as well.
Page 22 of 23
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday,October 9,2017
7:00 o'clock p.m.
MAYOR/COUNCIL REPORT
Printup noted Friday is homecoming week,with breakfast on Saturday and the parade on Friday.
Crosby stated if anyone is interested in making a donation to Officer Matthews' family,they are
accepting donations at Wells Fargo.
Walsh reported the Comprehensive Plan Review Committee met last week and that they are looking at
Big Island and the parks and how to address those correctly. In addition,the City's Code Review
Committee has been reconvened after a couple month hiatus so they can review how the code changes are
coming into play. Walsh stated the City is starting to see variances that do not need to come before the
City Council any longer and that in his view the changes are doing what they are supposed to do.
Walsh asked what the status of the online permitting is.
Barnhart stated Staff is fmishing up the development of the building permit side and that they are now
working on the land use application side. Barnhart stated he hopes to have everything up and running by
January or February.
CITY ADMINI5TRATOR'S REPORT
Rief noted he has just finished his first 30 days with the City of Orono and that he is thankful for Staff
being open to new ideas,which will allow the City to continually improve its processes. Rief stated he is
looking forward to presenting the Council with some good options and plans in the coming months.
CITY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
Mattick stated he had nothing to report.
ADJOURNMENT
Printup moved,Seals seconded,to adjourn the Orono City Council meeting at 10:02 p.m. VOTE:
Ayes 5,Nays 0.
ATTEST:
Anna Carlson, City C�erk Dennis Walsh,Mayor
Page 23 of 23