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Home My WebLink About03-28-1984 Council Minutes Special Meeting MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING HELD MARCH 28, 1984 PAGE 1 ATTENDANCE 7 :30 P.M. The Orono Council held a special meeting on the above date. Mayor Butler, Councilmembers Hammerel and Frahm were present. Councilmembers Grabek and Adams were absent. City Attorney Malkerson arrived at 7 : 36 p.m. Zoning Administrator Mabusth, Building Official Jacobs, and Recorder Sutton were present. John Shardlow, Howard Dahlgren and Associates, were present. There were 15 members of the public present. Mayor Butler announced that this special meeting was called for the Council to meet with John Shardlow to get a report on the meeting that he attended with the Pollution Control Agency (PCA) on March 27 , 1984 . John Shardlow stated that he attended the PCA board meeting which was to review the PCA staff recommendation, finding a negative declaration on the environmental assessment worksheet for the Maple Plain Interceptor project. Shardlow stated that the issue of induced development was brought up and that Cliff Anderson stated that there were sufficient controls and permit restrictions to ensure that Orono' s concerns were ill-based and unfounded. John Shardlow stated that he presented Orono' s concerns with the PCA. Shardlow asked that the PCA assume that this interceptor will induce development in Orono and he noted to the PCA the effects this would have on Orono. Shardlow stated that Dr. Hanson did a study with this in mind and he concluded that this would contribute 6 , 000 pounds of phosphorus to Lake Minnetonka a year as compared with the current level per year. Shardlow stated that assuming the City was to put in state-of-the-art environmental protection measures, then the more realistic number would be 4 , 000 pounds. Shardlow stated that that information went unchallenged with the PCA. John Shardlow stated that it was obvious that most of the PCA members had already made up their minds . - Shardlow stated that there was one gentleman who voted against, and one gentleman who abstained, from the motion to approve and find no negative declaration. Shardlow stated that the motion passed 5 (ayes ) , 1 (nay) , 1 (abstention) . Shardlow noted that the PCA stated that their meeting was really just an environmental worksheet hearing which pertained to that project itself and that the PCA wasn' t the appropriate board to address Orono' s land concerns. Shardlow stated that the PCA suggested that Orono raise their concerns at the MPDS public permit hearing in April . MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING HELD MARCH 28, 1984 PAGE 2 Mayor Butler stated that as a person educated in the field of environment and Orono with the possible implimentation of theinterceptor, how would you guide us in the future. John Shardlow stated that the way the project is being proposed, the design capacity and hydraulics do not include the capacity to service rural Orono. Shardlow stated that they say it isn' t designed or engineered for rural Orono yet but it is convertible or changed to provide for some connections. Shardlow stated that part of the problem is where the MUSA line is today. Shardlow stated that the Metropolitan Council now says that their MUSA line is where the City of Orono' s MUSA line is. Shardlow stated that in listening at the meeting, it was clear that the PCA' s staff did not understand the land use issue. Shardiow stated that the overwhelming experience in this country is that when sewer interceptors go in, urbanization follows . Shardlow stated that the whole purpose of the land use planning act was to restrict the development of the metropolitan area. John Shardlow stated that the option is to go to a contested case hearing following submittal of testimony in the public permit hearing. Shardlow stated that at the contested case hearing you would be able to present your arguments to an objective hearing examiner who would weigh these concerns. Shardlow stated that the City has to decide whether to continue this fight against the interceptor or whether it already has too much momentum. Shardlow stated that he made it clear to the PCA and for the public re cord that everyone he had talked to did not feel that rural Orono should be sewered, which included the Metropolitan Council, the Lake Minnetonka Conserva- tion District, the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission, the Pollution Control Agency staff , and the Watershed District. John Shardlow stated that the bulk of the cost in putting together Orono ' s arguments were spent in just getting the basic information so that they could do the study. Mayor Butler asked City Attorney Malkerson if there was any way legally that the City can protect its interest in development in the future with regard to the interceptor. City Attorney Malkerson stated that you could always write in the conditions, but that those conditions can always be changed by a future Council . Mayor Butler asked Shardlow if the Metropolitan Council has given any indication as to when they will realign the MUSA line. MIPlUTES OF THE SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING HELD MARCH 28, 1984 PAGE 3 John Shardlow stated that they would get to it before the end of the year. Shardlow stated that their response to his letter was that they have already changed the MUSA line just for Orono' s Comprehensive Plan. Shardlow stated that the City needs support from surrounding communities and from the state senator. Mayor Butler asked Shardlow to explain to the public about the San Diego project. John Shardlow stated that the San Diego project is a model wastewater treatment plant, which was designed by a senior scientist at the Minnesota Mining Manufacturing, which uses clay particles to remove phosphorus nutrientsfrom the waste water. Shardlow stated that it was proposed a number of years ago when they said they could upgrade the Maple PZain Treatment Plant for $30 , 000 . Shardlow stated that for about half of the capital cost of this interceptor, they think they could build that model plant. Shardlow stated that the PCA says that they are too far into their planning process to consider this . Shardlow explained that the plant takes all of the phosphorus pollutants out of the discharge and also creates an aggregate. Councilmember Frahm stated that the City is looking at a real precedent with putting laterals through a rural area. Frahm stated that it doesn' t look like the City is winning the battle so maybe the City should spend more time with the state representatives . Councilmember Hammerel agreed that the City will have to go to the state senator. City Attorney Malkerson stated that this is just a function of expense to the City. Malkerson asked the Council if they want to go ahead with the fight when it is obvious that the agencies are dead set against you and will be right through to the end. Malkerson stated that eventually you will have to litigate it if you want to stop it. Malkerson stated that it would also be hard to find a tribunal without a bias . Malkerson stated they would say to Orono "as long as the Council doesn't want to allow these restrictions by Orono, they won' t be lifted by Orono? Right?" "Yes, that' s right" , Orono would say. Malkerson stated that they would say "if a future Council determines that growth should take place out there, that the City Council should/will make tha� decision, right?" "Right" , Orono would say. Malkerson stated that that wouldn't cut too well with the court, because you' re supposed to be flexible. Malkerson stated that you would have to take on the P�A, the Met Council, and the MWCC, with the fact that they are the superior levels '. MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING HELD MARCH 28, 1984 PAGE 4 of government, and the fact that the court is going to believe that those restrictions are good until a future City Council should decide that those restrictions should be lifted. Malkerson stated that the Council now cannot bind the hands of a future Council. Malkerson stated that thisiswhy thiswould be a tough case. Councilmember Frahm stated that he doesn' t want to see the Cityspendingsmallamountshere and there. Frahm stated that if the City is going to go ahead with the fight, that they should decide right away. Frahm stated that the City has to go above the agencies , because right now it doesn' t look like the City will win. Frahm asked City Attorney Malkerson how much it would cost the City to fight this. City Attorney Malkerson stated that if you are going to try to stop the interceptor, that you go straight for the federal dollars. Malkerson stated that assuming the City was to challenge the EAW and litigate that, it would cost approximately $30-40 , 000 just to get through the hearing and district court. Malkerson stated that they will throw everything in the world at you. Malkerson stated that the MPDES, prepraration for that, would cost approximately $50-60 , 000 before you get to the Supreme Court. Malkerson stated that another option is to get on the plane to Chicago and ask why federal dollars are being used to pollute Lake Minnetonka . Malkerson stated that with the Chicago option, a couple thousand dollars for staff preparation. City Attorney Malkerson stated that you can always make that decision at the regular April 9 , 1984 , Council meeting. Councilmember Frahm stated that he needed to know what the cost would be for Shardlow to go to Chicago. John Shardlow stated that he would submit a letter. Mayor Butler stated that this would be on the April 9 , 1984 , agenda. ADJOURNMENT 8 :40 P.M. Mayor Butler moved, Councilmember Frahm seconded, to adjourn at 8 : 40 p.m. Motion, Ayes ( 3 ) , Nays ( 0 ) . ATTEST: (�C--Z%G��J-- � r\ _-.�,.=� y � �, �r Alberta M. Strom, City Clerk Mary C. Butl , Mayor � �• . , 5�e.e.;�a�.l Co��G l �ee.-h� PUBLIC ATTENDANCE � CITY OF ORONO MEETING DATE �'oCg� O T PLEASE FILL OUT THE INFORI�IATION REQUESTED BELOW I'OR OUR CITY RECORDS . APPLICATION NUMBER/NAME NAME (please print) ADDRESS PRESENT FOR � /� T�� f .�C, � i� �- ��'` 'l' 1 . �k:, �� •� �- { i�/,-.: f�:::,� �,-.�� ;��f'�� '�.. 2 � � �� t i� G 21 � /) 3 . �ct \ �1�I0� /��S /-r�c'�PI-t1P�c ! 1 �+�c� �re`'h L-a��. � \ \ \\ � ��'S� 'i,� �,,� ��'', � v �n� Y � •�-. 1 .c� (', ;�— c• '! C ,so,�o �x{F:. siv� L<J� 5 . 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