HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-11-1983 Council Minutes � �
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CITY OF ORONO
7 : (�� P.M.
Reqular Meetinq of the Orono Council , April 11 , 19£33
The Orono Council met on the above date with the
following members present : Mayor Butler ,
Councilmember Adams , Frahm, Hammerel and Grabek .
City Attorney Malkerson , City Pl�nner Olson , City
7,oning Administrator Mabusth , City Administrator
Benson and Deputy Clerk Woytcke .
*CONSENT AGENDA*
Mayor Butler moved , Councilmember Frahm seconded
that item �}? be removed from the Consent Aqenda* .
Moti.on , Ayes ( 5) - Nays (�1) .
Mavor Butler moved , Councilmember Frahm
seconded , to approve the Consent Agenda* subject
to removing item #?_ and to approve all staff
reportsconcerning consent items reviewed at tnis
meeting be attached to the original copy of these
minutes on f_ile in the City Clerk ' s office .
Motion, Ayes (5) - Nays (PI) .
*MINIJ°PES •
Mayor Butler moved , Councilmember Hammerel
seconded , to approve the Minutes of the March 2£ith
meetina as amended deletinq the phrase that Mayor
Butler felt 3Q ' would be more appropriate and
correctinq it to read that Mayor Butler stated she
felt it was discriminatory that resi.dents with
less than lOJP� ' could have only two boats ; or proof_
of ownership for 4 boats per household . would be
� more appropriate . Moti.on , Ayes ( 5) - Nays ( �1) .
PARK COMMISSION COMMENTS
Park Commission Chairman , Barbara Peterson was
present and reported that at their April 5 , 19f33
Park Commission meetinq the Park Commission
recommended to repair riqht o�itfield and resod , to
ri]. 1 and repair left infield and outfield and sod
the Bederwood Park Baseball Diamond . Cost
estimate being 5� , ��1!� .
Councilman Frahm moved , Mayor Butler moved to
approve for the Park Commission to go out and
receive the necessary bids for this project .
Motion, Ayes ( 5) - Nays (�) .
Barbara also extended an invitation to all the
Council and Planninq Commission to attend their
May 3 , 1983 Park Commission meetinq whi.ch will be a
tour of all the Orono Parks . There will be a bus
to take them on this tour , all are to be at the
Council Chambers by � : OIPJ P.M . and to please notify
L ;;%�����, //��3
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Gerh��rdson or Barbara Peterson by the end of April
if they will be attendinq .
LAKE MINNETONRA CONSERVATION DISTRICT REPORT
Mayor Butler announced that the L. M.C.D.
financial statement was enclosed for their
review.
Mayor Butler also announced the L.M.C.D. April
Agenda was enclosecl .
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Representative J . Diann Goetten was present but
had no comments at this time .
PUBLIC COMMENTS
No comments from the pub_lic present .
�726 — APPLICATION FOR VACATION
BRACKETT AVENU�/COUNTY RD. 15
"MOLLY'S CORNER"
Mayor Butler stated at this time the Council would
have a 3 minute quite time to read the last bit of
information that was qiven to them.
Mayor Butler then turned the floor over to City
Planner Alan Olson to review with the Council and
the Public in the audience the latest findinqs of
the Mollv' s Corner matter .
Citv Planner Olson stated that at this time what
he had was �ust another step in the subdivision
process brouqht bv Mr . Greaorv and Mr . Duff about
one yearaqo . and received nreliminaryapproval bv
City Council in October subiect to resolvina the
question of riqht of way and the vacation of
Brackett Avenue . Since that time the City has
held two Public Hearinqs with the Plannina
Commission and a number of sessions with the Citv
staff and the Greqorv' s attornev Larry Berq to
resolve an issue that can be comfortable for both
sides .
Mr . Olson stated that there were a few neiqhbors
present and he felt they should make any comments
and ask questions at this time .
At this time Mr . Olson showed on the overhead
projector the areas that are to be vacated .
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Mayor Butler at this time asked if there w�re any
personswishing toaskquestionsorstate comments
should do so at this time , and to please state
their name for the record .
Mrs . Stanley Greqory- I am not sure what a
maintenance aqreement is .
Mr . �Jlson - This is somethina that your attornev
suqqested to the Citv as a wav of vour acauirina a
certain strip of_ property along the edge that is
current_ly maintained by the County and in turn
giving back the County the right to continue to
maintain it; but it would show as your private
property but they would have the riqht to plow snow
and maintain the drainage ditches in that area .
Mr . Larry Berq , Attorney for Greqorys - .7ust an
added comment , with our negotions between Orono ,
Greqorys , �nd Hennepin County the understand.inq
would be that even thouah it was a maintenance
easement it would contai.n a restriction right i.n
it� that, Hennepin County could not bootstrap the
use of that easement in c� iving the right to expand
the hiqhway itself , so they woul.d not be able to
just take this easement and expand the road to a
wider area it is just chiefly for maintenance and
snow plowing .
Mayor BUtler - What i s the width of the maintenance
easement?
Mr . Olson - It would be variable basically along
the Greqory' s property we are looking at a 3Q' wide
road and a 3 ' easement to come up to the 33 ' platted
riqht of way that exist there today. Southerlv
alonq the Duff ' s property the actual platted road
would narrow to 7_7 1/2. ' wide and again the wider
easement would come up to 33 ' platted right of way.
Mr . George Capp - How many cars will that parking
area hold? Where is the entrance qoinq to be?
Mavor Butler - When I went bv there this afternoon
I counted 15 cars parked there .
Mr . Olson stated as far as we know the entrance is
qoing to stay right where it is .
Mr . Andrew Goetten - I must say that I have had a
chance to follow this because a relative of mine is
on the Planning Commission. I came this eveninq
because my point of view is not necessarily that of
the relative .
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I find it really very difficult to understand why
the City is tryinq to at this point establish a
Public access . We have Iived at that address for
l� years and in that time we found traffic qrowinq ,
the noise growinq , most important for us we found
the refuse growing , and in watching what the City
has done in that perioc� of time , doesn ' t fill me
with a lot of confidence about what the City is
going to do on this . I haven ' t seen a sinqle
refuse barrell empty in the period of time we have
been there .
At fishinq time I recall that there was police
sunervision from the Citv of Orono once . We
freauentiv ao down with refuse baqs and pick up
�unk . I haven ' t even seen the travelinq ",7ohn"
handled with qreat deal of delicacy in this area ,
so I reallv approach and I really see with a qreat
deal of distrust , the f_act that the City wants to
do somethinq wi.th that propertybecause the City' s
hands aren ' t c].zan on i.t as f_ar as I have seen in the
time I have been livinq there . I think that the
traffic problem and the amount of use that is
derivable to the public of that small piece of
c�round is in nowhere in line with what it is goinq
to cost to properly maintain it and although we
have not compl�ined in the l�l years , if the City
makes it a public landinq or a public access and if
it isn ' t properly maintained in the f_uture , we are
qoinq to complai.n . Because there isn ' t any
reason why we should be pickinq up trash and the
City is not . I am very cognizant of the DNR
position about lake access and I am sympathetic
with that�but I find it difficult to reconcile the
City' s position on this very small fragmented
piece when it has received the qrant from the
Davtons some vears aao of_ acreaQe on Lonq Lake
which has not been developed by the City at all . I
hapnened to take the occasion today to visit that
piece of propertv , it is chained across the road ,
there is no siqn that is indicatinq that it is a
public access . There is nothinq in the whole
property that indicates that the City has tried to
expand its public use . So I am confused that that
piece with the traffic count on East Long Lake Road
should be inferior to this piece with its traffic
counts the curves and everything else , I think is
hiqhlv danqerous . I do think the neiqhbors can
address the refuse and the other problems that are
not major but I also think the neiqhbors as
taxpayers should address whether this can be an
efficient piece of public access . I doubt it .
Thank you .
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Mayor Butler - Andrew in order to put your mind at
ease I have 9 page Chronology of Events as they
apply to this piece of property. On the 27th of
May, 197� in response to a complaint about the
litter and the traffic from Mr . Greqorv, there was
a meetina held bv the Citv . Countv , the DNR and the
Railroad and the outcome of that meeting was
"Countyand Railroad to maintain area" . The City
has never been in a position to do either of the
above and now perhaps they are , and frankly I think
we can do a much better job of keeping our own
windows clean than we can relyinq on other outside
aqencies doing so for us .
Mr . Goetten, Mary my wife told me of that , sh�
said "well shut-up, the City has nothing to do with
it . " I am sorry but I beq to differ , because I
think the City is the one standing here with the
largest clout , and if the City cannot really
maintain that area , what can the neighbors do even
i. f they do constantly call and everyone has
something better to do than be constanly nagginq .
I am sorrv , I feel the Citv is the one with the clout
here and could have exercised it in the past .
Mrs . Stanley Greqory - Could I respond to tnat?
Perharps the Countv did it because when I called
saying there was so much �unk around here , what
ever will I do . I called the Orono Office and I
don ' t knowwho it was that Z spoke to , but they said
it was not their job I was to cal.l the County. And
then they did bring some trash cans down and
subsequently a couple of years later they put the
portable toilets there but the City said they
would not take care of_ it because it wasn ' t their
�ob to do so .
Mr . Georqe Capp - I would like to sav somethina .
You are sayinq the problem has existed since 197ti .
Mayor Butler - they go back further than that .
Mrs . Stanley Gregory - I think they go back 10
years earlier than that .
Mayor Butler - This chronology dates back to
188� .
Mr . George Capp - Well. I didn ' t get down to dates ,
the last meeting was the first meeting I attended
in conjunction with Orono or any Council or
Planning Commission, I took my anqer out on the
wrong people because I do think it belonqs riqht
here .
When you talk in conjuction of who ' s problem is it ,
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three years ago I attempted to find out who owned
the property. I talked to the County, I talked to
the Village , the Planner here and basically # 1
nobocly knew who owned it , they qave me the name of
Abukahadra . Finally after many attempts ,
Abukahadra showed up one night at 1.1 : (�0 P.M, and
said if I own the property I will do what ever you
want me to do on it . This was 2 years later .
Basically lets forqet what happened in the past , I
think we are looking at it riqht now. I expressed
my feelings as far as DNR is concerned , if the DNR
comes around and they take the property and they do
whatever they please with it , at least I will look
at the fact that you have done your job for me as a
taxpayer , for the people in this room , last time
the planning commission was here we heard from
nobody that represented those 1� cars parked
there . Your first responsibility is to us , #1 as
taxpayers , #2 I do think that you should be prudent
in some way, shape , or form as far as our dollars
are concerned , whether you put ,7ohnny' s on the
spot out there or you put qarbage cans , or
whatever , somebody has to clean them. Now my
understandinq is that Mr . Gregory took that
prob7_em off you hands , not only was he qoinq to
clean up the trash but he was goinq beautify to it .
Now whether he builds a Mt. Everest or a docking
ramp or whatever , it is his dollars that is going
into it .
Anc� certainly I am looking at a self serving
purpose , and I think you should start looking at it
the same way. I mean we have done our job as far as
sayinq that it is a political hot football and all
the thinqs that qo with it , we all understand that ,
but I voted for you , and I didn ' t even know who you
were at that time .
Mr . Newell Weed - I would like to add to the
comments that were made in the memo here today. I
started out by saying that I appeared at the last
hearinq of the Planninq Commission meeting March
?lst with quite a number of neighbors and
surrounding property owners .
First place , I have lived within a block of Molly' s
Corner now for 25 or 27 years , and Mrs. ��leed and I
have seen this change considerably. I don ' t
accept , and I don' t think the Council accepts , and
I don ' t think the citizens of Orono should accept
just the fact that manymany years ago this started
becuase people fish there and we have every
support of people that wish to fish on the lake
from an access . But the area has grown the cars
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have much easier access with the increase of the
highway with highway 12 spilling off_ into count 15
now. This has greatly increased the amount of
traffic there and therfore times have chanqed , but
that doesn' t mean you suddenly say well just
because evervthina has chanqec� we are qoing to
keep the same old pattern and provide the same old
services . Now I mentioned in thi.s memo and I
think it is very apparent tonight that either the
council has to tell us , or the planning commission
has to tell us , we were invited to those meetinqs
not as to the question as to whether the Gregory' s
as property owners should have their rights in
getting this property vacated to clear the title ,
all of us are in support of this , I haven ' t heard
one person speak against that and I assume the
Council is and the Pl�nning Commission . The
question that we were invited here for , is to corne
and comment as to what we thought was in the
interest of health , safety and welfare of the
citizens of Orono with respect to the present use
and the past use of Molly' s Corner . I think we all
came out and expressed ourselves clearly . The
chairman of the Planning Commission expressed
himself very clear as did Diann Goetten and
others , and yet there are suddenly 2 memos that
have come out since that including the article in
the paper saying that we are as about as far from
the impression as one got as they appeared at that
meeting as anything I have ever seen . In fact the
April `th memo of Mr . Olson' sstatescategorically
that this is the City' s position and that they
should act and view all tonight and should not
1 isten to us . You shou].d act to author i ze
drafting of an agreement as follows , bang , bang ,
bang . . . . . . . . . .All of which I might say where
several of the key points in that are completely
changed from the memo that was given to us at the
Planning commission , these things have changed as
pointed out before . Without getting into
another late hour memo which I was a party of
discussion this afternoon .
I have spent several hours today, one on the phone
with Bob Searles . I spoke again today to the
chairman of the Planni.ng Commission, I talked to
some counci]. members , I spent some time with Mr .
Olson and Mr . Gregory trying to walk the property,
I tried to understand as fully in examining all the
maps which were very difficult to see at the last
Planning Commission Meeting and I don ' t think
there were any of us that could understand them .
Tonight ' s map is far better and I today have spent
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some time , none of the interest in this� is in any
ones personal interest . What we are trvinq to
represent and what we are tryin� to ask our council
to do , is to represent and listen to the citizens
and the taxpavers of Orono with respect to
whatever continued use there is to this corner anc3
the shoreline . NowIwould sayoffhand , the f_irst
� placeawe ouqht to divorce , and mv memo speaks of
this , in affect the question or seperate into two
parts , the question of Mr . & Mr . Greqory' s
property rights and whether they can have the
� right to build a home site on that which will take
the vacation of_ the old Bracket�s Avenue . I
understood this was built way back in 1887 and it
is a lonq disputed problem but I haven ' t heard
anyone say that it has never been used they have
been paying taxes on the property and it should not
be vacated , and I think they are in aqreement on
this , I was with Mr . Greqory and Mr . Olson today
and later talked to Mr . Berq , and if I understand
it accordina to the map an�3 the plan nresented to
you tonight they are in agreement to that , and I
don ' t believe anyone here tonight , I don ' t
represent every neiqhbor but I have talked to a lot
of them , and I don ' t think anyone is qoinq to
ob�ect to that . I think the point where we
perhaps will ask you take a further look at and
consideration of are these :
l . With respect to the title , and the onlv reason
that we are involved as other citizens and the
reason Molly' s Corner is involved , is when you
vacate certain piece of lands and when Mr . Gregory
qives you back to the City of Orono a little island
in the middle of that parking lot . Obviously you
bring up the question, who is going to do what to it
and what should it be use for . I expresse again
the opinion that I have not heard Mr . Olson , in
fact I have read all his memos , and in two or three
of them he saic3 there i s no intent to expand any use
of the parking lot in this area , and I believe that
is the opinion of the Council . Even if all of us
urged that you maintain it . But the point we have
to decide here is what are you qoing to do with it
and is anythinq you are doinq in drawinq the new
boundry lines and in the vacating certain
properties of the Greqory' s and then conceding
certain properties to the City of Orono , are you
but in fact invitinq certain expansion of that
area , or are you willinq to close it down entirely?
Or are vou willinQ to control it and beautify it
and control it for the safety of the citizens and
try to control it and perhaps reduce the use of it ,
and that is what I think should be done .
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2, In the health , safety and welfare of the
citizens of Orono , th�t that point should be
vacated , it should be closed down and no public
parkinq should be allowed .
The reason for that is simple , there is more
fishin4 space for shore fishinq and if you
ille4alv use the tracks of Burlinctton Northern
which thev won ' t close , thev tried at one time in
the past and there was a swamp fire there . If you
don ' t restrict that which is very difficult to
restrict there are more fishinq spots and they are
possibly parking there and for miles around , so
you cannot keep inviting the people by improving
their facility oppose to ours because it only
provides a areater and qreater problem and it will
never be solved . But vou can I believe , if you
would restrict it at this point , beautify it ,
fence it , berm it , landscape it and start a control
nobody is going to come out with publicity that you
are closing down the place because if you decide
politically , because of the DNRpressures , I e3on' t
think we should concede to , but if this is vour
feeling that you cannot have an announcement in
the paper that the council voted to close that
parkinq lot , then therefore landscape it entirely
to beautifv Orono and to nrotect the citizens ,
then if vou were qoinq to allow anv parkina there
it seems to me that you should take these steps
that I have suqqested and I think the other people
would support to kind of control that and start a
process whereby you can monitor the parkinq , you
can get rid of the filth and the waste and
everything else . Now there are only 3 points that
that would take .
(a) The property vacated to the Gregory' s would
include what is now known as the tree line. The
treeline to the perception is the end of the
parkinq lot that presentiv exists and vou would
vacate the propertv and up to includinq that
treeline . The question there and if you do walk
the proerty, you will see is should that line thats
vacated qo directly across parallel to the
treeline in fact right angles from the Burlington
Northern tracks , so it would go across here right
to county 15, or should it go down this piece and
leave this trianc�le , that red triangle that you
see down in here , should it leave that open and be
City property. The obvious point is that that is
not used for parking now it is too narrow to park a
car on and it obviously invites more filth and
trash down there if it is controled by the City
rather than if it is a private property which then
�/G�_
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Mr . Greaorv as he has offered many tirnes , would
plant it , berm it , put some trees there . Now Mr .
Olson , I don' t mean to quote you, I 'm not trying to
be a adversary here but , when I questioned you on
that today you said that was the perfect place to
putsatellites , but frankly Idon' t exactly thing
that the purpose of the Orono Council is here today
to set up a public restroom over there , that only
invites more and more , the only reason the
satellites were put there is because we didn' t
have the policing power , the police were
regulatinq both the parkinq and the fishinq to see
that they were trespassing on private property.
I sav and I think all the citizens aqree that if you
mere]_v take that treeline riaht �cross there .
vacate that r�rnnartv . �l.low it t� hP D1anY_ed .
allow it t� be bermed , and vou now have started a
control of the property .
(b) The second thing would to fence the property
properly , you can' t really control the property ,
the use of that and walkinq on the tracks , which
everybody aqrees is illeqal , and I don' t believe
it will stop with fencinq they will qo out by Orono
Orchard Road and cto down there , but at least vou
start to qive the appearance that the City of Orono
is trvinq to com�lv with the laws which says that
you cannot trespass on the railroad tracks . If
you don' t the wav it is now it is �ust an invitation
to it . While we were there today, there were l5
cars pulled in , every single one of those people
who parked there went down the railroad tracks ,
they don' t across the street and park . If they
want to fish there they park there . So the second
thina is to fence the propertv and start to improve
it with landscapina , which Mr . Greaorv aaain has
offere�3 t� c3o , and T think he miqht even find
neiahbors that would assist in this plantinq
opera.tion .
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You don ' t have to greatly restrict it ,
although I would like , Larry could I use for a
minute , I don ' t know if anyone has seen this ,
but they drew a beautiful artist conception
of what might be done if you berm it . Now
whether you go this far or not isn' t the point
at the moment , the point is --this is with the
cars , that is the way it looked tonight you
don ' t need a picture of that---But this one
which is merely what could happen to Molly' s
Corner is to have an attractive berming ,
landscaping , planting area there , true this
particular rendering which is only a artist
concept , cuts down the size of the parking
lot tremendously, I submit f_or council
consideration that if you started with this
act merely by again this property that goes
across directly, let Mr . Gregory start
immediately to plant and landscape that and
assist in some minimum planting and fencing
which then gives you the opportunity for
gateing which has been suggested in Mr .
Olson ' s memo at the end so at night it can be
closed . This would help and be a great
start , perhaps in the next year you could
landscape it a little more and if you felt the
control should come down . Now two other
points , again I think because it was
submitted in the first proposition and all
the memos of the Gregory' s that where they
would trade lands in order to get their
proper buildinq site rights they would be
willing to trade 7.ands with the City of Orono
but they would not do so unless it was
approved by or in the general interest of the
citizens and the other neighbors around . I
submit that there are two questions here , one
is , Whether in fact you change , now as Mary
has pointed out the City of Orono has no legal
position in the Parking Lot area . I submit
by taking that position you now are extending
an Orono invitation, in affect , you are now
legalizing and permitting the use . This
property which is at least is known as the
reserve area and now the whole shoreline was
originally and some may still be the actual
property of the Gregory' s and I believe the
Duff ' s down by the boat works . The reserve
area particularly which is the little L point
there , I submit that I would like to have the
council say do not vacate , that is do not have
the Gregorys give this to the City, in
pratical the shoreline is still being used by
the public and could be maintained by the
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F�i�
, public , Mr . Gregory has not put them off , no
one has put them off , but if you give this
piece of property to the City, and it now
becomes public property, you are not going to
be able to control the use of that and I don ' t
care how you fence between that and the Hamm
property, you are now starting to encroach
the public property upon the private
property, Hamm has already written a letter
to the Planning Commission and Council copy
of which I have and which all of you have ,
telling how about his boat house was torn
down , his dock was torn down there , you
cannot protect that and all of Orono Lane ,
which is where I live and others live there ,
is going to be encroached on. Why not keep
that as private property? There is no value
in the City having it , the use of the
shoreline is to be maintained the same .
Those , with just those two changes , l . do
not give that property away, put it in public
use , it provides you with a problem of
policing , it makes you police the Hamm
property and everything else , and merely
start that at the line of the trees and start
to improve the property. If you can ' t see
fit in closing the parking lot , which I guess
I understand the political realism of today ,
probably you might be influenced not to do
so . I say start the control of this so we can
have the citizens there in an orderly and
attractive manner . This is a prominent
corner of_ Orono it could be a show place , it
sti7 � r.ould have its Molly' s Corner , its
vegetable lady, or whatever and it could still
have some parking for the fishermen. The
third and last thing that I submitted in my
recommendation is that the Council then and
Mr . Olson , we discussed this , is that we then
put so that you have a permit parking ,
Wayzata does this , Deephaven does this ,
Mound does this , this would give you a
control , you are going to have a limited
parking there at best , if you make them pay
S3 . �J0 , 55 . G�� , let the council decide , if
people apply for the permit it will give
Orono residents the priority, it can give you
a control and it will give them a sense of
responsibility so the people that do have a
permit to park there, I think will help keep
the place up and will have a little more
responsibility than they do now. With
these recommendations I Thank You . These
are some that I think the other neighbors
would approve of and and do approve of it.
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Counci]member Hammerel_ - Aret�' t the Deephaven and
Wayzata permits for swimming?
Mr. Newell 4,Teed - There are permits for swimming,
Parking and for use ot the beach. Not necessaril_y
just Lor the swimming part, they do have boat permits
also.
Mr . George Capp - I would like to say one mor. e
thing , from the first time I came in here , which
w�s the Planning Commission E�earing , I already
fel. t that we were somehow compromised entirely, we
had no choices , I mean basically you put out t1�e
options , today Mr . Weed is referrinq to option 1 ,
2 , and option � . I do feel that we should totally
disregard the Gregory-D�ff situation and w�
should look at the proolem itself , and I think it
should be very evident to everybody that if tl�e
cars don ' t park there the justibility hecomesfar
more restrictive .
The second point is tlze tax dolla.rs which are going
to go either direction to support whatever . I
just don ' t--- and I do realize this that what Mr .
Weed is sayi.ng that the political implications on
this , I think that we all do , but once again you
have been elected by us and your first
responsibility is to us , and I don ' t think anybody
in this room �aill hold it against the council , the
mayor or anybody else , if in f_�ct the DNR came and
saicl we feel it is necessary for us to take that
lot , --I just don ' t understand how we keep coming
up with plea bargaining , and I think Mary is doing a
good job , but somehow w� never even hacl our day itz
court .
Mayor Butler - This is it .
� Mr . George Capp - Yes this is it , we are trading
things which I don ' t see why 4�e should be . You
haven ' t controlled that property for over 20
years , the Police Chief says he has no
jurisdiction over it .
��7ayor Butler - That is correct .
Mr . Georqe Capp - You say you don ' t have any
�urisdicti.on over it . And we }�ave evervthinq
going on in that area , you say you have paqes of
events , I am sure we could add to it . Well that in
itself is the indicative that somethinq is wrong .
Mayor Butler - Well it is indicative that----Mr .
Cappinterupted --Itcould beopen prostitution on
that corner . --Mayor Butler- Icertainlyhope not !
Mr . Capp - I hope not too but who would control
it , The Chinf h��s ].8 square miles to control
whatever it is--Mayor Butler- I think it is 2ti .
13ut I do think someone has to control it ,
,1.'�
someth i ng ha s to be done wi th i t , I don' t know why
we are talking about parking facilities , nobody
does anything for me when I drive down to Lake
Harriet , they don ' t say yo� are from Orono and here
you are this is for you , to park your car and walk
around the lake .
John Hammerel - May I respond to him? Mayor
Butler , Please do .
You know here in Orono we run a pretty tough act , I
don ' t know if you know that in the way we keep a
delightful place to live and that corner has been
there an�3 I told the story to Bill Gregory that I
worked there in a fireworks stand 5�1 years ago .
You know, it has always been used for this . So
politically I think you cou_id see where we are , now
the place has never been policed , never been
controlleci because it was not under Orono you
understand that? Now Orono is going to step in
and police it , keep it clean , and have the police
shut it off at night , and I am sure they will do a
good job , but I think first of all we should be
given the opportunity to do this , you know before
we just go out and cut it off completely. There
are repercussions that we are liable to get for
this . Idon' t think yourealizefully. Mr . Capp
-- I realize that 5�1 years aqo was 5� years ago , 5
years ago it was a very clean place too , but today
we are living in a diff_erent day and age . Mr .
Hammerel - there are suppose to be less people
driving now. Mr . Capp - well listen I live right
there . Mr . Hammerel - I know, I 've been going by
there all t'�ese years .
Councilmember Grabek , tahat are the reper-
cussions?
Mayor Butler , what do you mean?
Councilmember Grabek , To closing it off .
Mayor Butler , I don ' t think that you could
physically close it , I think that the people that
use it will continue to use it whether it was
screened , bermed , treeed , I would invision a far
greater degr. ee of vandalism there than there is
now, if they were precluded from using it as they
have in the past , I don ' t think that the City is
proposing anything that even remotely smacks of
expanding the use . If anything we will curtail
the use in that the hours will be defined , they
wi 11 be posted , they wi 11 be pol i ced . As fa r as
litter is concerned that will be policed . If we
/r
have to qet the Boyscouts out to do it on alternate
sundays , so be it .
Councilmember Grabek , You haven ' t answered my
question thouqh .
Mayor Butler , what are th� ramifications , I just
told you .
You are goinq to have the people usi_ng it just as
they have in the past to spite what ever anyone
else trys to do to force them out of there .
Mr . Capp - Mary, why don ' t we try it? Lets put
some post up and a put a wire through there . Why
don ' t we try it , we can ' t stop them from walki_ng .
Mrs . Stanley Greogory - We are willing to try it at
our expense .
Mrs . Capp - And we are at our expense .
Mayor Butler - But you are also talkinq about the
general taxpayers money.
Mr . Capp - No , we are saying 4ae will do it .
Mayor Butler , You cannot , I would be remiss in
being a human being i f I said go on out there and try
to play policeman .
Mr . Capp - All we are saying , we are �aill ing to go to
the expense to put up a fence .
Mayor Butler , but that is not going to solve the
problem .
Mrs . Stanley Gregory - May I say one more thing?
It is possible for us to do that , because if it were
bermed up all the way and if it were planted up ,
then if it were dug out below that where there was
water , the water table is quite high at that point .
In order to create the herm you might hit the water
table fairly quickly and you planted a lot of trees
and put up some post , I don ' t think it would be a
real biq problem. And my guess i.s that you don ' t
think so either . May I ask one more thing , Mr .
Olson , I am not sure that that is entirely correct
thing there because you don ' t show our little
piece of that corner .
Mr . Olson , It wou].d be part of the public parking
area that is shown .
��
Larry Berg , This we can post in the back and you can
see the yellow is the railroad land , the red is the
Greqory land , pink , yellow and red together form
the actual bounds of the parking area as presently
known , the orange land is the land A1 has shown in
red over there and the Blue is the lake . This land
is shown here , is land that apparentl.y we are
completely aqreed upon as far as its vacation is
part of the program . �ae have not shown anything
over here simply because as of_ now the precise
bounds of where these things are going to leave off
hasn' t been deci.ded and rather than put anything
we have simply left it blank , but I think this map
is very lustrous and if_ we could put it up next to
the other ---.
Councilmember Grabek - I have a question . If we
initiate tl�e parking area at what ever ratio or
whatever portion is finaly agreed upon , what are
we authorizing parking for in that area?
Mayor Butler - Fishing .
Councilmember Grabek - Where?
Mayor Butler - On the other side of the street .
Councilmember Grabek - I would like a legal
opinion on placing a parking lot and then ti�hat has
to take place as far as a safe crossing for
citizens crossing a county highway . Should
there be safety islands? Should there be walkways ,
or should there be lights , or should there be an
overpass , because if the City puts an authorized
parking facility to f_ish across the countyhighway
then I would think maybe we can find out from our
attorney if we then are responsible for the safety
of thecitizenswalking acrossthecounty highway.
Mayor Butler , Bruce do you have anything?
Bruce Malkerson, City Attorney - If there were a
public parking and i £ in fact the red area down
showinq Outlot to the City by contract were owned
by the City and were made available for parking
there fishinc} there even if there were not siqns
saying this is no�a available but if we owned and
we knew it was being used on a regular basis the way
it has been , there certainly would go with that
potential liability for any traffic accidents
related to parking and walking across the roadway.
As it would be for the county toa because it is a
county roadway and there are standards that the
/�'
county has that might be relevant here for
determination of whether or not there should be
some sort of painted crosswalk or something else ,
I don ' t know, and even if you met those standards ,
you could still be sued , you can always get sued if
there is an accident , and whether or not the
insurancecompanywould payoff or fight it and say
we were not negligent for having a parkinq lot in
that situation, I don' t know.
City Admini_strator Benson - The City def_initely
has a lot of exposure there , there is no doubt
about it .
Councilman Grabek - From what I understand from
listening to the different discussions and as I
stated before , that if we put a parking facility
there no matter what size it is , and maintain it ,
and post it th�t it is a parking facility, but it is
closed only from 1�1 : f�l3 P.M. to 6 : a�J A.M. , from what
I have observed that the people that park there
don' t walk across the highway, they walk down the
railroad to the tresse7. which is actua_lly
promoting tresspassing of private property, so as
I mentioned before to the council I can ' t
understand thereasonforpromotingaparking area
in that space .
Mayor Butter - I don ' t quite understand how you
mean oromoting . We are not going to put up a big
sign that says park here , it will be used as it has
historically been used in the past .
Councilman GraQek - Naw let ►ne explain , I think
what you propose here is to put up signs saying you
can only park here from six in the morning to ten at
night , you also put up and have cleaned up and
again have put sate].lites in that area , which
promote the use of that area .
Councilman Hammerel - they have been there .
Mayor Butler - we have not put them there .
Councilman Grabek - I don' t care what happened
before, I mean I am asking you , if the City puts
something there for the use of the citizens of the
state , county or whatever , what is the purpose of
it? And the purpose is twofold , number 1 I think
to fish in Brown' s Bay realistically and to fish
down the tressel . And either one of those as far
as the City is concerned , doesn' t make sense
because if you put parking there to fish in Brown ' s
Bay you are going to have to make facilities for
/>
people for crossinq the highway. So my
recommendation is in belief , and I �m looking for
discussion and you can certainly educate me , is
why we are not closing it off and considering
vacating it and getting rid of it as far as a
responsibility to the City of Orono . I can' t see
the benefit of increasing cost to the city to
promote that as a parking area .
Councilman Frahm - perpetually.
Councilman Grabek - However you can help me
explain myself .
Mayor Butler - just a moment please , I will get to
you in a minute , Councilman Frahm?
Councilman Frahm - I like to answer that , speaking
for myself , Number 1 - Tnat is not my favorite spot
for any kind of access to the lake ! However , we
tossed around this political thing , and at this
point of time it is a very sensitive issue , and in a
couple of. months it probably won' t be a sensitive
issue because we will know what is going on.
However , right now there is some study group that
is trying to determine , how, where , what and how we
should use _land around the lake for making
�ccesses for people . That is why I am holding
off . I 'm saying vacate or not vacate as far as I
am concerne� . At thi.s point in time , we all out
here have been accused , all the cities out here , of_
trying tomake LakeMinnetonkaaprivatefacility.
That has come from the DNR and it has come from the
legislature and what have you and I don ' t want to
further that opinion at this point in time
politically. However , af_ter this task force has
made its recommendations and find out what is
going on there I can very easily make up my mind as
to vacating or not vacating this thing and making
it an access . At this time I can ' t . I would
prefer not even consider vacating anything there
at this point in time . I personally would like to
vacate the whole thing , but T do have some
political thing I have to look at that could affect
a lot of other things we are trying to do .
Councilman Grabek - Let me answer your comments
then . Let me say that if there is a political
atmosphere that exists with the Task Force then
lets first publically and directly offer the DNR
the property.
Councilman Frahm- I don ' t want them to have the
property.
/�
Councilman Grabek - Do you think they would take
it !
Councilman Frahm - Yes , they would take anything ,
they don ' t care .
Mayor Butler - they would take it use it for
exactly what it has been used for only bigger .
Councilman Franm - ;ae loose complete control that
way.
Mr . George Capp - You know as I said initially, you
guys ar� worring about politically what is going
to happen . I think if you are going to do your job
for us . Politically you should be worrying for the
people that vote for you for the taxpayers .
Mayor Butler - We are!
Mr . George Capp - You have a closed mind on the
issue riqht from the beqinning .
P9ayor Butler - We have not and I resent you saying
so .
Councilman Frham - That is not true .
Mr , George Capp - Why can ' t you close it up?
Councilman Frahm - You are a part of Orono , you are
one group of citizens . There are 3f1(I�J some
citizens herethatmightgetaffected bysomething
the DNR the State legislature what have you might
do that may affect us a lot more that this little
area down here at the corner .
Councilman Hammere]_ - They could move that mess to
another area of Orono .
Mr . George Capp - Sure they could .
Mrs. George Capp - You have summed it up! They
could move quote "That Mess" unquote . Lets leave
it where it is and let us bitch and complain about
it . Lets not move it and let somebody else bitch
and complain about it . You know sir , that you
have a closed mind , and so does Ms . Butler ! Now
these other gentlemen, I like your fence sitting
thats fine but the rest ofy ouu are not sitting on
the fence , you have made up your mind already.
Craiq Moen - I guess I have to say I feel badly that
�' .
� J
the Gregorys are havinq a building permit held up
because of what is going on here . If the issue is
going to be that much less sensitive in a couple of
months , I would think that you would drop it at
thi.s time . The concern that I have for this whole
corner is that I , we have lived there for 4 years ,
and we are delighted to be on Orono Lane it is a
beautiful place to _live . When we purchased the
place I had absolutely no idea how dangerous that
corner is. My wife during certain times of the
day , and I think Mrs . Weed as well , will turn out of
the Lane going toward Wayzata and will go Ferndale
Road or something and turn around because what
they really wanted to do is go west . My wife has a
cleaning lady who comes once a week and rides with
other w�nen who �aill not turn into that street ,
they drop her off on County Road 15 . The
congestion is caused by parking whether it is in
that lot or along County Road 15 it is just a big
headache and dangerousness of that corner . And
if you want to know what my real position about
County Rd . 15 is , I am a great one for
beautification and I think that stretch of land
between , or that stretch of County 15 between
where you first see the lake for the first time
which is where Orono Lane is and onto Navarre
probably should be a reduced to a scenic parkway it
is one of the prettiest drives in the Twin Cities .
I am very concerned that if you do close the
parking there , without posting as I think all the
fishing access is really inappropriate there
because of the natural dangerousness of that
corner , that is a blind corner , it is just
absolutely blind , and that what needs to be done is
to close off the fishing there entirely as far as I
am concerned and to post no parking in such a way
that it is unattractive to people to want to walk
far enouqh to fish , and I guess that means posting
no parkinq all along County Road 15. There
certainly at Orono Lane which is to narrow to park
on anyway , and Orono Orchard Road and I do believe
people will get the idea . It seems to me they
could be missing --------------all these years
and Idon' tknowif thatmeans -------------------
-. The simplicist way to explain my position is
tr,at I think the corner is extraordinarily
dangerous , not just the people on Orono Lane but
everybody that passes through there .
Mayor Butler - Sir?
My name is LarryGuthrie , I am the attorney for Mr .
Hamm who is out of the country. And I attended the
, - /
planning commission as well and I guess being an
outsider so to speak , I am just -----to the issue
no on any of the emotions of people living there
the trash and so on but just the reasons that are
being given , let me say that I am simply delighted
to finally here reasons and reasoning being ------
about by the council which was totally absent at
the planning commission hearing . I saw it and
tried to get a logical reason as to why the
planning commission was acting as it was and don ' t
feel as I received any. As I look at the problem
there was a use on the corner that no one wanted to
admit to but was occurrinq and the use at least for
the last few years was being used by no one except
tresspassers . Now �ahen I asked the City Staff as to
why a parking area or why recognition by the City
would be rationale , I guess I got no response
because at that time there was no fishing access to
the lake and so what reason can you use it except
for tresspassing . Since that planning meeting
now there is being proposed a right of access so
that I guess will fill the logical gap that was
missing that now there is a reason , mainly fishing
rights and we are not promoting just tresspasser
use but we are promoting fishermans use . Now
there are reasons and I think the citizens here and
members of the council have given why that should
or should not be used , apparently the DNR comes
into play here but also apparently there is a use
of city funds . If the city is going to finally
face up and say yes we are responsible for the
corner they can no longer neglect responsibility
i f an accident was to occur , they must accept the
responsibility for what must occur from here on
out . I think the council has at least taken the
position that they are going to be the ones to
expect to excercise responsibility over the area
and I applaud you for that. I think what is next
to be done is to decide whether or not the use
should be promoted , discarded , or expanded . Now
I guess what I have heard from the citizens , it
seems to me that what they are afraid of is
expanded use . The logic of I guess , the problem
of what I am having with your reason is that it has
been used in the past and you can ' t restrict and it
will be continued used for tresspassers you might
as well leave it open , would lead to the fear of the
citizenshavethatitwillbeeventuallyexpanded ,
bec�use when we find out that the tresspassing
doesn ' t stop with limited use the only rationale
way to deal with the problem is to expand it
further under that type of reasoning . So I guess
I still don' t see , unless it is a political reason ,
political pressuresfrom the DNR, what ----------
� /:�_
-- reasoning there is for using the property in any
way other than banning it and what I hear the
citizens say, is that theywould rather take on the
DNR, with your support , than taking you on , or let
you take on the DNR, because if the Gregorys were
to give you access I believe they are afraid you
would just give it away to the DNR because of the
political pressures . They don ' t want to see
that , what they want is to restrict the use of the
lake as much as possible and by letting Molly' s
Corner be used for parking for what ever reason is
an expansion . Because you f_or the first time are
taking rPsponsibility for it , and you are
recognizing it Whether or not you put up signs , at
this council ;neeting if you approve parking there ,
you are recognizing it , and that is an expansion
over the past , because in the past you said we
don ' t control it we can' t stop it. Now you are
taking responsibility for it and if you allo4� it
you are expanding it from the position we have had
in the past . The members that are here today and
the neighbors don' t want to see that , Now if you
think you have a responsibility to other people in
the City of Orono that is something else . But I
haven ' t seen anybody here supporting that
position , and as f_ar as I can see the only people to
be supporting on this particular question is to be
the tresspassers .
� Mr . George Capp - I think we should look at it this
way, I don' t think we are qoing to stop the
tresspassers , the fisherman aregoing to continue
going on there and I am human just like you , there
are some of them that are very nice , I think the
question here is the parking . It certainly does
not add to commerce , it doesn ' t , I don ' t see
anybody parking there going across there to buy
something or promoting the area . Other than
picking up beer cans , that is the only thing it
adds to . I do think the question is , should they
park there or should they not park there . Because
I think we are all fooling ourselves when we try
and say they are qoing to stop walking down the
railroad track or walking across the posted
property or not . But I do think it is time that
the council be counted and if the DNR is an issue or
if theyoverrule the issue , thats fine at least you
stood up and you did what the citizens are asking
you to do .
Mayor Butler , but in my wildest dreams cannot
imagine how upset you would be if we allowed the
DNR to take over control of it and they would in
their states rights etc .
^ :
Mayor Butler - where did the parking go then?
Mr . Weed - they disappeared for that particular
year or so while they were fixing the bridge .
Mayor Butler - the best trick we could all think of
would be to get the fish to go somewhere else . But
obviously nobody fishes where ----------------
I would like to move that we vacate the property
after sufficient dialog with staff to propose
beautification area for that vacated property, at
the owners expense , under the supervision of the
City and proceed with it as soon as possible .
Councilman Adams - Which property?
Councilman Grabek - The outlot leased to the City,
the outlot to the Hamm area , and any other area on
the west side of County Road 15.
City Administrator Benson- Part of this that is
now showing also is the outlot down here to the
city by contract .
Councilman Adams - You say all of Bracketts?
Councilman Grabek - Yes .
City Administrator Benson- You are saying
vacate everything , not to own anything?
Councilman Grabek - Yes .
Mayor Butler - To who ' s favor do you wish to
vacate?
Councilman Grabek - To the owners property , which
I guess is the Gregorys , is that correct? Except
maybe on the outlot that is the Hamm' s property,
that part that is blue on the map to the east .
What would be the use of the City owninq that?
Mayor Butler - None , as I understand it that use to
be in Mr . Gregory' s ownership, they did a little
bit of a land swap -------------------------
Councilman Grabek - I would think that after a
title search what ever area that is I suggest that
we vacate it to the appropriate abutting land
owners under the direction of the City Staff to
approve its beautification area at the owners
expense and proceed as soon as possible .
�`�
i
Mayor Butler - What about the maintenance
easement?
Councilman Grabek - I think if there is a
maintenance easementdue to either traffic safety
or engineering safety that there should be an
appropriate easement according to what staff
suggests .
Councilman Adams - It would require amaintenance
easement .
Councilman Grabek - Yes , is that necessary? I
think then we should do that .
City Administrator Benson - Jim is saying to
vacate everything that is proposed to be vacated
here and to require a maintenance easement as
necessary.
Mayor Be�tler - Is there a second to the motion?
Mayor Butler - I will second it so we can discuss it
further .
Councilman Adams - Jim , could I ask the purpose of
this vacati�n?
Councilman Grabek - I think I stated it quite
clearly .
Mr . George Capp - The motion �aas to vacate right?
I can ' t hear because of the fan .
Mayor Butl_er , I 'm sorry I ' ll repeat the motion .
Mr . Grabek made a motion to vacate the property
that i_s shown in red and the hatched blue area at
the top of the drawing and to continue with the
maintenance easement which is shown in green down
the west side of County Rd . 15 and to vacate also
that blue hatched area at the bottom of the screen .
Which is now actually Mr . Gregory' s driveway,
parts of it . And I have seconded the motion so
that the council we may discuss it further .
Councilman Adams - I would like to ask Jim again ,
if he could state for me the purpose of this
vacation .
Councilman Grabek - I think it was stated quite
clearly bef_ore that I think the detrimental ------
------------- ---------- Orono citizens but
every citizen in the state of Minnesota .
,- . -
�_ �_
Councilman Adams - So you have no public advantage
and a possible liability .
Councilman Grabek - I think that any development
of that property, I think as I stated before , and
probably not adequately enough , that would
promote just two uses of the surrounding areas ,
one would be tresspassing of rai]. road property and
the other one would be using Browns Bay for
fishing , no swimming beach just shore fishing
which I think definitely show extreme exposure to
the City as far as liability of people crossing the
countyhighway. I think thateventuallyeither a
potential accident or a concerned party could
possibly cost the City of Orono the additional
expenditures of putting an overpass or a light or
some type of traffic availability to cross �he
county highway. Any other questions?
Councilman Hammerel - Jim do you understand that
this would not be changed in any way, from what it
is right today except a chain that we would put
across it.
Councilman Grabek - I don ' t think that is what I
stated in the motion .
Councilman Hammerel - It isn ' t going to be
enlarged or changed from what it was a year ago it
just is going to be maint�ined .
Councilman Grabek - You mean my proposal , or what
are we proposing now?
Councilman Hammerel - No No , I am not proposing
anything , I just said do you understand that if it
was maintained as a parking area , as it has been ,
with the only changes to it would be that they put a
chain across it at night , they would police it .
Counc_liman Grabek - I understand that .
Mrs . Stanley Gregory - Not quite John , excuse me ,
the blue cross hatching at the end of the red
triangle of the parking lot , which is in dispute ,
actually which is recommended to come to us . It
is actually where the pine trees are , the physical
end of the whole thing . But the f_ence line is in
the pine trees right now, we would certainly move
that fence line . Well we would move it so the
point of where our property that you would allow us
to have .
Mayor Butler - The fence would between the parking
area now anc3 the trees .
Mrs . Stanley Gregory - Itacutally wouldn ' tchange
the perimeter of the parking area but it would
o% G
forbid any further pushing forward . lae have
actually had people climb three pine trees and top
them and take them for Christmas Trees , believe it
or not it always happens in the middle of December .
George Rovegno - Planning Commission Chairman - Sae
have had an significant amount of testimony that
hasn ' t come up tonight and I think it is apropos'
in this particular motion. The issues that at
least I personally, and I think Diann worked from
while we were the desenting voters that did not
concur with the majority recommendations were
public health and safety issues which in most
everything that we do are overriding considera-
tions . It is a high speed section of road there is
a bad curve there , there is parking--------------
----We need stop siqns up on Orono Orchard Road ,
there is the track issue , the satellites and the
refuse do propose some potential hea_lth issues .
I don ' t know if this is public welfare but the
riqhtsof the property owners obviously have been
a problem and that is why we have had such large
turnouts at this . It appears that the fact though
there is no place to go at this point legally, that
you are tresspassing if you park there to go
fishing and go to use the lake . We have heard a
lot of testimony of verbal and physical threats to
the land owners there , vandalism i�o the Hamm' s
property , turning over a boat house , thefts of
various things , now tree topping is a new one , The
most d i sturbing one to me i s the ---------------
mentioned that they had had some gun shots into
some of_ their boats , apparently as they believe ,
it was because they had told some people that they
had to get off their docks for fishing and
tresspassing . In short the thing has posed a
public nui.sance , my view is that if we had any
business or residents that created this much of a
problem, the city would move rapidly to regulate
it and there is something I guess that I am
missing , I don ' t know if anyone has ever suggested
it , or anyone saying that it could that this could
�e -----------public access to the lake in an
organized manner . It is just a bad site , it would
be probably the last place in town that you would
pick . We have a real significant amount of
testimony that has been presented at the various
hearings that this is a real public nuisance ,
that threatens the public health and safety and I
think that is bearing on a motion to vacate the
area and close it and stop that function.
Mayor Butler - We do have rough minutes of the
Planning Commission meeting .
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Diann Goetten - Planning Commission - Did you
realize though that those minutes especially as to
------------the recommendations arenotcorrect .
I would be happy to tell you what they should be
from what I can remember . I just received a copy
of them just as they alude to the Molly' s corner
section this afternoon so I have not had an
opportunity to read the whole thinq .
Mayor Butter - Do you have the Planning Commission
minutes? What I have is a ---------------------
Diann Goetten - .7ust as it aludes to Molly' s corner
- and the recommendation says they approve� the
staff recommendation after additional discussion
the motion was amencled by Commission member Adams ,
and Sime to include : then it was suppose to have
said as a condition a positive undertaking by the
City Council to do the things on page 3 a ,b&c ,
which we asked to have numerated so that it would
include Mr . Berg ' s memo of February 2.8th I
believe . And to include the vacation of the woods
area not used by the public . And I just f_elt that
was important enough to note for the recorei .
Mayor Butler- well what I have here is says that
planning commission member Adams moved , planning
commission member Sime seconded , to approve staff
recommendations as presented by City Planner
Olson ' s memo dated March 17 , subject to
maintaining , policing , and fencing area . After
additional discussion , the motion was amended by
commission members Adams and Sime to include a
positive undertaking by the City Council to do the
things on page 3 a ,b&c of the formentioned memo .
As recommended and to include vacation of the
woods area not used by the public .
Diann Goetten - taell I feel it is important to say
that it was a condition, otherwise it just says
well gee can you do this it would be swell . But I
feel it is far more important if one could say as a
condition . I know that I was not one to approve
thisparticularrecommendationand Idon ' tknowif
any other planning commission member here this
evening ----------------------------but I am
sure they would agree with me when I say that that
was stated as a conditon and I just want it noted in
the record .
Mayor Butler - so noted .
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Councliman Grabek - I think that my fellow
councilmembers will aqree that the only purpose
for maintaining a parking facility there is for
fishing purposes . Both on the tressel , which is a
tresspassing act and which is a dangerous safety
h�zard crossing the highway 15 and I don' t think
there should be anymore disucssion and that it
shoulc3 be an easy decision for the council .
Mayor Butler - in that case I will call for the
question.
Councilman Adams - Can I ask Jim one more question?
I am having trouble supporting your motion ,
because it gives up total ability of the city to
exercise any control . I am sympathetic , that we
don ' t want to worry about anymore than we have to
but I am worrying , I don ' t like the idea that the
city have responsibility of both sides of the
road . What it seems to me that the city can retain
the existing parking space and at least have the
ability to exercise control , which we gave up in
197� for the county and that was an unsatisfactory
course of action . I think you are on the right
track .
Councilman Grabek - I don ' t understand what
control .
Councilman Adams - It says that i_f we give private
ownership total control of the land the city has no
Councilman Grabek - That is true b�t why would we
want control over the land? What do you want to do
with it as a city? What do you propose that we do
with that property? Provide whatever kind of
parking space , I don' t care if it is blacktop,
gravel , or exactly the way it is do you think we
should provide parking spaces �or that area?
Councilman Adams - I think as long as some of the
problems that have been described here don ' t
materialize , or to such a great extent that they
are real problems the City should try to maintain
the public access .
Councilman Grabek - Public access to what?
Councilman Adams - Then if they become big
problems ,the city should have the ability to go --
---------------
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Mrs . George Capp - They are real problems - where
have you been the last hour and a half , Mr . Adams
what is the difference between what we have been
talking al�out and real problems! My God Man !
Since we have been joking around lets talk about
the real problems , you have practiced now lets get
down to the real ones , My God ! !
Ci.ty Administrator Benson - Your Honor I suggest
you move to table this matter until April 25th .
Councilman Grabek - Well anyway I still fail to
see , if you tell me what purpose you see the
property used for , maybe I could understand , but
you tell me it is public access then , I asked you
what is it public access to?
Councilman Adams - I am tracking your logic , I
understand .
Mayor Butler - If there are no other comments then
I will call for the question then on the motion
which is to vacate the corner , the driveway area ,
which is to the south basically all of Brackett
Avenue due to the liability exposure to the City.
Councilman Frahm - Before you call that question I
guess I would like to make one more comment .
Mayor Butler - Go Ahead
Councilman FraI�m - Again I will state that I would
prefer doing that motion as Jim has said matter of
fact , but there are some other factors , I don ' t
see why we have to act on that vacation tonight. I
don' t see why we can ' t , I don ' t understand -------
----------------for the next three years , six
months whatever it turns out to be ta table that
motion and pass the subdivision without that . I
think at least for me in three to six months it is
going to be a very straight foward question asked ,
and I will not take the chance of the court
ramifications that we will get otherwise .
Councilman Adams - Does there not have to be a
trade off for the subdivision?
Councilman Frahm - I think we can easily work
around it .
Councilman Adams - Your subdivision just would ' t
include the areas that has to be vacated .
Larry Berg- Could you give us the subdivision
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essentially down to the lakeshore reserving in
some sort of straight foward normal language ,
subject to road rights to county road 15 , without
re�lly determining ownership riqhts so that the
lands----------------------90 down to the lake
as most ----- do in that area , may we can skirt this
issue .
Councilman Frahm - Don' t get me wrong , I don ' t want
to skirt this i_ssue permanently, I just want to
skirt this issue for some short period of time
here .
Larry Berg - I understand , just some time .
Councilman Frahm - �7ust some more time here .
L�rry Berg - The only thing we feel we cannot do is
we cannot accept a subdivision that would simply
go to the western most edges of Brackett Avenue .
Councilman Adams - That is what I thought .
Larry Berg - Hoping for the best later on , if the
City f_elt that they could as we once had
subdivision approval for a 4 lot subdivisiondown
to the lake , and it was not all that long aqo , if you
could do the same thinq again maybe we could table
the vacation for the time being , we could put the
Torrens Action on hold , we could see essentially
what happens for a while . In the meantime without
the City agreeing or binding themselves to
anyone ' s ownership rights in that area , we could
have some sort of agreement where no one is waiving
anything but if land is owned by someone , it has
got to be any or maybe several of a certain group of
people , and they can alI get together and somehow
agree with the City on a matter of policing that , I
don ' t know Bruce , if it is legally possible to
appoint the City as an agent to handle that sort of
prob.lem or not but if it were maybe that could all
be taken care of , and maybe other things could be
done so the City is not waiving anything but the
problem could largely be alleviated , and we
could all look upon this as a moratorium period for
study . Where we do certain acts to see what has an
affect , in the meantime the Gregory' s can go on
with their home or the building----------------
Mr . & Mrs . Gregory -- No No wrong ----------------
-------------- no there wil_l not be any building
until we get this resolved .
Larry Berg - There would have to be certain points
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as you see on my map, I think have been
fundamental].y agreed to , if you see that gray
shacled area , (the woods) I think that probably has
to be bef_ore the Gregory' s feel they are in
position to build anythinc� , have to be vacated
because it stabs so deeply into their property. I
think that was one thing we have always been in
agreement on. Now I have to turn this over to Mr .
and Mrs . Gregory, to say what other things they
feel they must have.
Mrs . Stanley Greqory - As you all know we do hope to
build a house there , but we wouldn' t even apply for
a permit until there was sorne real solution . And
we might not build , it really is that simple .
Mr . Gregory - I think it is coming down to that . I
think we have gone throuqh it and , and it has been
stated on both sides , I proposed through the
drawing that we would try and beautify it and maybe
-------- and try and promote a little something
and the City has either got to say they like the
idea or don ' t like it , but it seems to me that to go
on as is and just put a fence up and a sign and say
you can ' t park here , I think that is a lousy deal
for all of us , it is the second worse corner on
county 15 �nd to me I be damn if can see why anybody
wants it! I don ' t want it myself , but it is there
and I am the one that is willing to pay to fix it .
Mr . George Capp - Once again we are mixing issu�s
here , Larry is representing his client which is
his job . But once again I think the one issue is
it is a health hazard , a traffic hazard and a
nuisance , number one . I think that is what we are
all here , I am really not interested in what Mr .
Gregory is going to do or what Larry is going to do
� for him. The second part is there is a budget
consideration if you do maintain it or if you do
enter into the liability factor on it . Now I
think that we looked at logically, Mr . Gregory
there who basically is going to underwrite the
budget problem and also take care of the
beautification problem. So maybe you could
combine the two issues , vacate it , have him
stipulate certain conditions on it , eliminating
the eye sore and el iminating the problem , and that
would make all of us happy and we can all go home .
City Administrator Benson - Jim your motion how
did you intend to handle the outlot to the city by
contract?
Councilman Grabek - That currently belongs to the
Gregorys?
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City Administrator Benson - Yes
Councilman Grabek - I just talked about the west
side , I just say vacate that , I mean I would be open
to any changes in that motion as to that area for
parking and shore fishing . I think for the
families that it can be safely done , they can park
along there if the Gregorys want to vacate that
property for maintenance use and use it the same
way it has been used . I guess no one has to cross the
county road to put a pole in the water , that is
the way I look at it , and that would be we are not
closing a very favorite spot off , we are just
protecti_ng the city` s exposure to liability. I
would suggest that there is no reason not to , and
that is not City property on the east side of
county 15 colored blue is it? Outlot to Hamm , in
other words we would vacate that , I suggested that
to in my motion if I am not mistaken .
Mayor Butler - Yes you did , you said all of
Bracketts Avenue .
Counci. ].man Grabek - So if someone would like to
amend that under the conditions that east side of
county 15 I would go along with that .
City Administrator Benson - would be vacated?
Councilman Grabek - Do you want ----what is --- is
there some problem with that Mr . Benson?
Mrs . George Capp - What is the motion?
Mayor Butler - The motion is to vacate al� of
Bracketts Avenue .
Mrs . George Capp - All the colors , the stripes ,
the plains and the everything . Name the colors
f_or us .
City Attorney Bruce Malkerson , You honor if I
may, the only thing the City has any power to
vacate I believe , is that which is called outlot to
Hamm, outlot to city parking , outlot to Gregory
and Brackett Avenue to Gregory, that is basically
what is always been the subject of vacation. The
outlot to city by contract on Browns Bay is just
part of the overall development proposal as staff
has beenreviewing itwiththe PlanningCommission
and Council but we have nothing to vacate there .
Mr . Grabek is correct that in his motion then
really isn' t to vacate anything of that area
called outlot to city by contract , but the issue is
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to whether or not that should be a part of this deal
preserve or shouldn ' t it be preserved for public
parking and access to the lake .
Mr . Craig Moen - In other words , acquired from the
Gregory' s .
City Attorney Malkerson - That is right . .And I
understand that the councilmembers are askinq if
there is any support for including that into his
motion .
Mayor Butler - Let us address the motion that we
have in front of us , unamended and untainted by any
further conversation . All of those in favor of
the motion - --------
Counci_lman Frahm - I need to have an answer from
our attorney down there as to whether there is a
way we can perform a subdivision and leave the
vacation alone .
City Attorney Malkerson - I believe that the lots
on the west side can certainly come up to the
platted riqht of way and stop there as to the piece
of_ property down there called outlot to city by
contract , that piece because it has never been a
part of a formal platted right of way, that has , to
me as a lawyer , an altogether different type of
legal standing . It is not a platted right of way
but from my inspection of the property I concur
with Al Olson' s conclusions that lot of that red
outlot to city by contract , especially the most
southern section and as it goes further down
across the Gregory outline all the way down , that
was really created by the government years ago
when the county road was either realigned or
widened , when you look at all the boulders that are
in there , those aren ' t bolders ----------to the
area they are all ones that were brought in to
build the base of the road , and you can see where
they took the old road bed ripped it up and put it
� down there . Now Mr . Weed and others can have much
better knowledge of either A1 or I on that subject
and we would be interested in that . But it seems
to us a lot that property on Browns Bay in fact is
part of the right of way of the county just as a
matter of law accretions building out into the
lake by the government , they own it.
Councilman Frahm - But as far as Bracketts Avenue
to Gregory , and as far as the outlot to City ------
City Attorney Malkerson - The subdivision will be
approved with leaving them all right there , it
.y, ; --
will be like having any other lots approved to the
plat that go up to a platted right of way. If they
were ever vacated in the future , when you vacate ,
youreallydon ` tvacate toanyone specifically, it
goes to the property owner from whence it
original_ly came , you go back to the r_hain of title
19�1�1 and you probably find that the property that
we refer to as the Gregory property and the
predecessor on title in 189�i may have platted
those blue areas , therefore they go back to
them. It is theoretically possible that the blue
areas were carved out of property that was owned on
the east side , on the Hamm side �nd then in fact ,
such a vacation would go over to them even though
it would have to jump over the county road .
Councilman Frahm - Isn ' t that goinq to happen now?
City Attorney Malkerson - It might , but we assume
that isn ' t the case , that the property came from
Gregory , but we wi _ll have to go back to 189G� and
pull the deed and see .
City Planner Olson - Part of this whole deal ,
getti.ng away from who is going to do wnat with what
piece of property , was to put in an agreement
together that could be signed by the City, the
County, the Gregorys , the Duffs and the Hamms . It
would be put together in the form of a written
agreement and also ev�ntually a plat drawing that
performedanyvacationthatwasnecessaryto clear
title , any dedication of new right of way,
creation of these outlots whatever to vest
ownership in the correct parties . That was the
form of the agreement . The only problem in what
you are saying is , again getting away from who is
going to do what with the pieces is Hennepin County
has to agree to the Highway right of way before
they sign that plat , before it is able to be
recorded ; so if we don ' t �et into some sort of
agreement and decide how they are going to
maintain their right of way ei.ther on a dedicated
basi_s , or an easement basis that is suggested
here , they simply are going to refuse to sign the
plat and it may not be able to be recorded .
Mr . George Capp - Where is the right away for
Hennepin County .
City Planner Olson , This is what we are
discussing? How wide that righta way ----------
J •
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Mr . George Capp - Where is it on the map.
City Planner Olson - Right now their highway plat
claims all of this (shoreline) Not all of the red
but a siqnificant portion of the shoreline down
here .
Mr . Larry Berg - members of the council , there is a
tentative agreement with Hennepin County , they
are waiti.ng on signing it to see what we do at this
meeting tonight . Essentially on the Gregory
part of the property the agreement is for a 6f� '
dedication with a 3 ' maintenance easement on the
west side , there woul� also be a 3 ' maintenance
easement on the right side but not thinking
clearly I didn' t quite realize that frankly I was
tr ying to g ive away some o f Mr . Hamm' s proper ty so
certainly that would have to be agreed to �y tl�e
Hamm' s . �ahen it came to the Duff property the
county was requiring on).y 55 ' feet of dedicated
land and easement on the west side of nothing , an
easement on the east side down to the lake itself
and onlyfor snow plowing purposes . The easement
on the Gregory part of the property would be for
highway maintenance and snow plowing purposes
with an express provision that those maintenance
could not be use�� to expand the road . I walked the
property with David Swenson , the Chief Riqht of
Way agent wi.th �iennepin County Department of
Transportation , we measured it by hand and he felt
satisfied with that , he thought that life was
unfair that he couldn ' t have all that had
originally been included in the highway plat , but
because of the narrowness of the hridge over the
Tanager Lake he acknowledges that there is really
no way that they can expand the road without
building a new bridge and that is very unlikely to
happen that he just wasn ' t concerned . He wanted
to make sure that no one would be able to lead them
down the qarden path and sue them for tresspassing
because they plowed the snow up on someones
property. Once those issues have been dealt
with , he was satisfied , he has copies of those
agreements and he is willing to sign them, though I
do anticipate that those now have to be revised
sl ightly , but I think we do have an agreement in
principal with the county .
Mr . George Capp - '.aell Larry you are saying on the
west side you don ' t want any right a way.
Larry Berg - Only on Mr . Duff ' s property.
Mr . George Capp - Ok so on that side the question is
not an issue .
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City Administrator Benson - That is the greatest
thing we ever did when we held the line so Hennepin
County could not build a 4 lane bridge over
Tanager .
Mayor Butler - Yes to Keep that bridge narrow, we
coulc3 have had a 4 lane bridge going thro�gh now.
Then we would really be in tough city here . We do
in fact still have a motion in front of us that I am
bound and determined to vote on.
Councilman Frahm - One last question. Does the
outlot to City , I understand is not included in
the motion . Is that correct , that outlot that is
by contract .
Mayor Butler- that is correct . It is not in the
motion . You have all heard the motion gentlemen
all of you that are in favor signify by saying aye .
Council.man Grabek and Councilman Frahm - Aye
Mayor Butler , Councilman Adams and Councilman
Hammere_l stating Nay.
Mayor But_ler - the motion fails .
Mayor Butler - I would now entertain a counter or a
different motion .
Councilman Adams - I would like to move if it is
appropriate -
Mayor Butler - Yes it is
Councilman Adams - To move to vacate all of_
Bracketts Avenue with the exception of the dark
red area which I understand is included in the
existing parking area -----------I -------some
of Mr . Weedspointperhaps -----------� better and
concise drawing -----------`�ut the intent of my
motion is to keep control for the city of the
existing parki_ng area and whatever public rights
have been developed over the years .
Counci.lman Grabek - For what reason?
Councilman Adams - For what ever reason, I can' t
speculate on what ever reason that will be . But
what ever rights the public has I would like the
city to have control to either terminate it or
perpetuate it .
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Mr . George Capp - Tim could we get a budget figure
then to what it is going to cost to maintain that
piece .
Councilman Adams - That would be up to staff .
Mr . George Capp - well somebody can get it for us ,
you know, we should be informed what is going ----
we are going to maintain it for some reason we
should know the cost then .
Councilman Adams - my way of thinking is there
could be a number of reason that the city might
later decide to close it all together and the
purpose of the control is to be in the position to
be able to do that . Budget would be one of those
reasons . Safety would be another , and all the
reasons .
Mr . George Capp - You are going to pick up the
garbage , the chief is going to come in and haul
away cars and so on and so that is going to be a cost
right? I think we are entitled to know a budget
number of what you consider that property is going
to cost us to maintain .
Councilman Adams - that is perfectly fair to me.
Mayor Butler - Do we have a second to the motion?
Councilman Hammerel - T second it .
Mayor Butler - we have a motion and a second , Ti.m
would you like to repeat your motion?
Councilman Adams - Yes - I move to give conceptual
approval , directing staff to return to the next
council meeting with a written Resolution to
include the following concepts :
1 . Vacation of all Bracketts Avenue as platted .
2. Deed from Gregory to City of Block l� and that
portion of the Molly' s Corner parking lot shown in
dark red on the map presented by Larry Berg on
April 11 , 1983 .
3 . City will not become involved in any lease
from the railroad .
4 . Maintenance easement to the County on either
side of County Road as necessary.
`�''�
5. The lakeshore on Browns 8ay to be included in
the plat as outlot to be owned by Gregory & Duff .
� , Appropriate conservation easement and dock
and bouy limitation easement over outlot to City.
7 . City Attorney directed to bring back legal.
opinion regarding liabi_lity of City for
ownership , & public use of Molly' s Corner parking
1ot with understanding that the Molly' s Corner
parking lot to be preserved by this action may in
fact totally be eliminated .
8 . City to incorporate concept of gate ,
limitation of hou:s of use from 1�1 : �Jc� P.M. - � : �i�J
A. M. enforcement of curfew, noise �nd littering
ordinance as to Molly` s Corner Parking Lot .
9 . To accept the fair offer of Wm. Gregory to
provide materials and/or funds to improve the
parking areawith berms , plantingsorotheritems .
City Attorney Malkerson - Your honor - A prior
discussion that I believe was at the Planning
Commission level at the Council level--------As
my intent by �ahat I hear from the motion of Mr .
Adams is tnat you after his first motion it is his
intent that the City not have any rights over what
is called outlot to city by contract either above
the Gregory line or below the Duff line and as far
as you are concerne�l , there are two issues there :
l . You c�on' t want the city to l�ave any rights what
so ever or 2 . You don ' t want any of this action as
it relates to the subdivision or vacati.on in any
way to effect what rights the city or county or
public generally mayhave down there . Because as
part of this we have a subdivision and if you want ,
that platted right of way here to be to the county
is fine but if you want make sure that Gregory' s
claim to this red area and �uf_f ' s claim to this red
area as private property owners is enforced , is at
its maximum whatever claim they may have wouid be
to show that as nrobably an outlot that runs with
DufL and with Gregory property as a seperate lot
that they own and get the county to agree that the
county has no governmental rights ever to allow
the public generally to fish off of here .
From my point of view and an important policy
question I would like direction from you because
it ties into the vacation and ties into the
subdivision . Do you want the Duffs and the
i.
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Gregorys to have a more strengthen position to
claim that that is private property along the
lakeshore and if they want to let the public f_ish
there they can let the public fish there and if
they want to post it , we are not going to come in and
say wait a minute the County has the right over
that or the city does or someone else . Or do you
want that issue to just stay open .
Councilman Adams - I guess it was the intent of my
motion that the Gregorys and the Duffs do have
rights to that property which gets us into the
negotiated restricting of launching ----I am
happy to include that into my motion .
Mayor Butler - You are saying that we are going to
leave that point unadressed now?
Councilman Adams - In th� interest of moving this
along , I think we should .
City Attorney Malkerson - You honor If I may note
though . What we are doing here is this motion is
vacating properties that are shown as public
platted right a way, and thats fine if thats what
the council wants to do . But if that is the
council ' s intent is however to insure that the
public has the right to fish off of this area
called outlot to City by contract , as to whoever
owns it whether or not Gregory or Gregory and Duff
o�an it with an easement back to the City to allow
the publi.c to qo there , they are so intertwined
that I , if you could make a position on that it
would help us . If you want the public to be able
to by rights in this deal however you put it
together , to be able to fish off this outlot to
city by contract then fine please so state . If
your motion is not too , then we know that we can
tell Larry Berg to create that as a outlot back to
Gregory anc-3 Duff and staff will know what
direction to go with this .
We have to have an answer because we get to the
practical problem of how we draw that plat next
week so therefore we have to have an answer ,
whether or not to the riqht a way on that plat goes
right on down to the l�ke or whether the right of
way stops and that little red strip over there on
the right is shown as an outlot . Now this is a
practical mechanical question .
Mayor Butler - Ok , we have a motion in front of us
and I am calling for the vote . All those in favor
signify by saying Aye- Butler , Adams & Hammerel
voting Aye- Frahm and Grabek voting Nay- Motion
passes .
ya
CMP -Comprehensive Sewer Policy Plan
City Planner Alan Olson revic�wed this matter with
council that this was just a Bookkeeping change
th�t corrects an error that occurred about l�l
yearsago and involves the Hackaberry Sewer Area-
The Meclina-Orono-Long Lake Sewer Interceptor
Plan .
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve , for the record , to ad�ust the
Comprehensi.ve Sewer Plan numbers to be consistent
with hoth the ?3-1 assessments and with the total
Medina-Long Lake agreed upon cap�city. Motion ,
Ayes ( 5) Nays ( �1) .
#725 - Bob Skinner
342C9 Shoreline Drive
Conditional Use Permit
Resolution #1473
Zoning Administrator Mabusth reviewed this
application with the Council .
Councilmember Frahm mover3 , Councilman Adams
seconded to adopt Resolution �1473 Grantinq A
Conditiona.l Use Permit To Municipal Code Section
35. �J24 - File #725 to permit expansion of his
approved restaurant use to allow construction of
an 8 ' X 35 ' canopy structure to serve as an outdoor
eating area for his "take-out" restaurant ,
D' Vinci ' s , to be placed over a portion of the
existing retaining walllocated in the parking lot
to the west of the restaurant . Motion, Ayes ( 5) -
Nays (f�) .
#73�J KEVIN ROLF
27(�0 CASCO POINT ROAD
VARIANCE - RESOLUTION �1474
Zoning Administrator Mabusth reviewed this
application for Mr . Kevin Rolf with the Council .
Councilman Hammerel moved , Councilman Grabek
seconded , to adopt Resolution #1474 Granting
Variances to Municipal Code Section �4 . 552 - File
73�J permitting the construction of a ?_4 ' X 24 '
qarage , 2�1 ' from the street right of way and 3 '
from the side p-roperty line . Also to amend
Resolution �# 1474 to include condition that the
detached structure may never be used as a
residential unit . Motion , Ayes (5) - Nays (�1) .
. ,
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�731 CHARLES HOMMEYER
4?? PARK LANE-VARIANCE
RESOLUTION �1475
Councilman Grabek moved , Mayor Butl_er seconded to
adopt Resol.ution #1975 Granti.nq V�riances to
Muncipal Zoning Code Section 34 . 452 - File ;#731 to
allow construction of a new residence on a
property consisting of ?_2, 5?..5 square feet instead
of the required 93 , 5ti�! square feet , with a lot
width of l�J(! feet instead of the required 14�J feet
and with a south side yard setback of � feet
instead of the required 1�1 feet . Motion , Ayes ( 5)
- Nays (�i) .
�732 - JAMES DONGOSKE
875 FOREST ARMS LANE
RESOLUTION �147�
Councilman Grabek moved , Mayor Butler seconded to
adopt Resolution �#147� Approvinq A Buildinq
Permit for ,7ames Dongoske to Construct A Dock on
Lot 5 , Block 2 , Forest Arms Plat . Motion, Ayes
� 5� — Nays (n�) .
�733 - JOSEPH R. LOFRANO
33ti5 CRYSTAL BAY RD.
RESOLUTION �1477
Councilman Grabek moved , Mayor Butler seconded to
adopt Resolution �k1477 Granting Variances to
Municipal Zoning Code Sections 34 . 55?_ and 34 . 51l� -
File �#73� to allow construction of a 24 ` X 25 . 1 '
addition to the rear of the existinq house 4 feet
from the east side property line instead of the
rec{uired l�l feet , 5 feet from the rear property
line instead of the required 30 feet per section
34 . 552 and to permit �n increase of 145 square feet
of hardcover over the allowed 1 ,�75 squre feet of
hardcover per Section 34 . 51f� . Motion , Ayes ( 5} -
Nays ((�) .
4�IESTONKA SENIOR HOUSING TOUR
Mayor Butler announced that there will be a tour of
the Westonka Senior Housinq Facility name
Southshore Park in Excelsior on April 27 , 19�3
anvone interested please respond by April ?_5 , 1983
by callinq Larry Blackstad .
MCWD UPPER WATER STORAGE AREA
Mayor Butler announced that the Upper Water
Storage Area Project meeting was April 7 , 1983 and
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they adopted the preliminary draft of the report
which we will be getting in a couple of months . The
watershed districtwill behavinga public hearing
sometime in June after they adopt the final draft .
This has to do with the Painter Creek Lake Katrina
Storaae Facilitv.
PARK COMMISSION ALTERNATE
Council asked staff to prepare a list of all the
Park Commission Meetinqs left in 1983 and to
appoint alternates to attend these meetinqs ,
CABLE T.V. REPORT
Mayor Butler announced that there will be a Cable
TV meeting at Shorewood City Hall on Tuesday April
1?_ , 19f3 � at 7 : (�(� P.M.
Mayor Butler announced that the Sewer Service
Advisory Board Group C meeing wi ].l be April 14 ,
198� at 7 : 3�1 P.M. in the Orono Council Chambers .
Mayor Butler announced that the Lonq Lake/Orano
,a�ter Surface Regulations meeting will be April
21 , 198� at 7 : �1�1 P.M . in the Orono Council
Chambers .
TRANSPORTATION REPORT
NONE
*CLEAN SWEEP-HENNEPIN COUNTY 15
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Ac3ministrator Benson ' s memo
regarding Orono ' s participation in the Clean
Sweep operation of County Road 15 on Saturday,
April 7_3 , 198� . Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays (!�) .
*LETTER TO BILL GAGNE
MARCH 25, 1983
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Administrator Benson' s letter dated
March 2.5 , 19�� to Mr . Bill GaQne of GaQne
Investments reqardinct the propertv on Wavzata
Blvd . at Old Crystal Bay Road . Motion , Ayes ( 5) -
Nays ((�) .
*FIRST QUARTER INVESTMENTS - 1983
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
accept Finance Director Tom Kuehn ' s report of the
Investments as of March 31 , 198� . Motion , Ayes
(5) - Nays (�1) .
y�
*SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS, DISBURSEMENTS
AND BALANCES - FEBRUARY, 1983
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
accept Finance Director Tom Kuehn' s report of the
Summaryof Receipts , Disbursements & Balances for
February , 19�3 . Motion, Ayes ( 5) - Nays (PJ} .
*YEAR TO DATE - SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS
DISBURSEMENTS, & BALANCES - 1983
Mavor Butler rnoved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
accept Finance Director Tom Kuehn ' s report of the
Year to Date Sumrnary of Receipts , Disbursements &
Balances for 1983 . Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays (Q1) .
MULTI-CITY PARADE
LARRY CONNELLY
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Administrator Benson ' s letter dated
March 3f� , 1.9R3 to Mr . Larry Connelly, Jr .
reaardinq the Multi-City Parade . Motion , AVes
(S1 - Navs (�) .
*NOMINATION LETTER
MR. ED BEARG
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Administrator Benson' s letter dated
March 3�i , 198� regarding Mr . Ed Bearg ' s nomination
to be a representative to the Watershed District
for our area . Motion , Ayes (5) - Nays (�1} .
*NOMINATION LETTER
BOARD OF HENNEPIN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Administrator Benson ' s letter dated
March 30 , 1983 to Hennepin County regarding the
Council appointing Mr . Bearg to serve on the
watershed district for our area . Motion , Ayes
(5) - Nays (�,) .
*MINNEHAHA CREEK WATERSHED DISTRICT LETTER
DATED MARCH 3H, 1983 TO MR_ ED BEARG
Mayor Butl.er moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
accept the letter dated March 31 , 1983 from the
Board of Hennepin County Commissioners to Mr . Ed
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Bearg regar� ing his appointment to the watershed
district . Moti.on , Ayes (51 - Nays (�) .
*WILLIAM B. VAN NEST
LETTER - MARCH 3�, 1983
Mayor Butl.er moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve theletterof City Administrator Benson to
Mr . sailliam B. Van Nest dat2d March 3C� , 1983
reqarc3inq themeetinq on April 7 , 1_983 of the Maple
Pl.ain Treatment Plant matter . Motion , Ayes ( 5) -
Nays (�J) .
*WILLIAM WEAR LETTER
MARCH ?_9 , 1983
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approvetheletterof City AdministratorBenson to
Mr . Willaim Wear dated March ?_9 , 1983 regarding
the No Parking signs for Brown Road west to Willow
Drive. Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays (�1) .
*MINNEHAHA CREEK WATERSHED DISTRICT
1982 ANNUAL REPORT
Mayor But7_er moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
acc.ept the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District
19f�? Annu�l Report . Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays (�1) .
*OFFICER FRIENDLY PROGRAM
PHASE II
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve Police Officer Steve Pearson ' s memo
reqardinq the Officer Friendly Program Phase II
dated March 25 . 1983 . Motion , Ayes (5) - Nays
(GIl .
*SALARY ADJUSTMENT
OFFICER JOHN PIELOW
Mayor Butl.er moved , Councilman Frahm seronded to
approve the pay adjustment for Officer John Pielow
effective April 11 , 19R3 from 51 , 9P5 . 24 per month
to S2, ?_�J4 . 8l� per month . Motion, Ayes ( 5) - Nays
(�1) -
*ALAN OLSON LETTER TO LARRY BLACRSTAD ,
CDBG REALLOCATION
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve the tetter of Citv Planner Alan Olson to
..
. r
y�
Mr . L�rrv Blackst�d Senior Pl�nner of_ f3ennepin
County regarding the CDBG Reallocation dated
March 29 , 19�� . Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays ( �) .
*BARRY SCHADE LETTER
APRIL ti, 19$3
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approvetheletterof City AdministratorBenson to
Mr . Barry Schade of the Minnesota Pollvtion
Control Aqencv reqardinc� the Alaple Plain
Treatment Plant dated April � , 1.983 . Motion ,
Ayes (5) - Nays (f�) .
*MEMO - CITIZENS LEAGUE
�I20PERTY TAXES
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Administrator Benson ' s memo dated
April R , 1983 regarding the Citizens League News -
Property Taxes . Motion, Ayes ( 5) - Nays (�J) .
*MEMO REGARDING SETUP PERMITS
Mayor 8utler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve City Administrator Benson ' s memo dated
April 8 , 198? reaardinq the Orono Ordinance
allowinc� setup permits f_or non-profit organiza-
tions . Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays ([� ) .
CITY ATTORNEY' S REPORT
None
�LICFNSES
Mayor Butler moved , Councilman Frahm seconded to
approve the followinq licenses :
,7ohn & Myra Lanier - Residential Kennel Licenses
Hoff Plumbing , Ind . Septic System Installer
Loren Brown Plumbing - Plumber
Art Center of Minnesota - Skidmore College Alumni
Club One Day Setup Permit.
Motion , Ayes ( 5) - Nays (�l) .
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*BI��.�
Mavor Butler moved . Councilman Frahm seconded
that the Al1 Funds Accounts and the Liauor Store
Accounts be paid . Motion , Aves ( 5) Navs (l�) .
ADJOURNMENT
Councilman Grabek moved , Councilm an Frahm
seconded to adjourn the meetinq at approximately
1�1 : 3G� P.M.
C -
Mary C . Butle� Mayor
ATTEST;
Mary S t�loytcke , De ty Clerk