HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-31-1969 Council Minutes-Special Mtg discussion �` ��- � 7
�� VILLAGE OF ORONO Tape 1
, Page 1
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Speci�tl �Nteeting of the Village Council , D4arch 31, 1969
Starts wi,tYi some discussion of conditional use permit applied for by
Unity Investment Co.
Franzel : «ell, now in this marina situation, I have, as I said, contacted
quite a number of different people and agencies that have been involved
and concerned about the lake . And there are five points that I 'm just
going to briefly cover, that I think would relate to what might be the
proper consideration, because on one side , we 've got the personal rights
of individuals that have made an investrnent on tlae lake , and certainly
have basic considerations that must be given to them. On the other side
we 've got a broad body of public welfare and some serious condi�ions on
the lake, and my first point on here is related specifically to the basic
lake pollution problem, And I think this has been certai�ily publicized
from every angle , and there have been some significant points that I
think have shown the seriousness of the situation.
The first one is that in 1963 the state agencies provided us with an okay
to put the sewer affluent into Lake �finnetonka, as many other communiti.es .
Five years later this has been reversed, and no new treatment plants can
put affluent into the lake , and the present ones must be phased out at a
given time schedule . Also, experts that have certainly been recognized in
this field do agree that ��e 've got a very serious lake pollution pro�lem,
and these experts are �rom the Llniversity, frorn the State Con�ervation
Department , men like Hibbert Hill , the director of the Freshwater Biological
Institute , Don Fruen, with the hiinnehaha �Patershed District, Dick Gray,
that has made a lot of studies on the lake here itself, Dr. John �1�foyle ,
and a long list of others , that I think without question recognize the
seriousness of our lake . And this , I believe , is a pretty well accepted
fact .
The second point is that the Lake ?�iinnetonka Conservation District , which
is now �vorking on this total problem, and which was formed because of the
serious��a�xa�x� situation on the lake , does recognize that we have a very
serious problem with the lake use , and the lake condition. And �just
this last week the bill which now gives the Lake 14iinnetonka Conservation
District po�ver to regulate the lake use , including docks , and other
activities on the lake--it is now up before the Senate . And it would
make , then, this Lake A4inneto:ika Conservation District a body that
would have legislative power.
The third point is that this new Freshwater Biological Institute, which
is nov� just eoming into being, is well along in its formulation, and,
again, the experts connected with the University and others so indicate
that this is sorely needed, in order to find out enough facts in order
to give some sound and effective guidelines as to what sr�ould we do,
because we can get all concerned and think that just one item is going
to solve the whole problem, and certainly it is not.
The fourth item is that the lake has had v� ry significant increase in
its use . As the head of the �'atFr Patrol reported to us here , that from
1963, for ex��mple, we had some 2,011 violations . In 1968 we tiad 6, 244.
�Pe had accidents inereased from 19 in 1963, up to 6g this past year. �e
had property damage increased from �11 ,000 up to �22,000. Complaints on
the lake ran from 480 in 1963 up to 922, which is just indicating the
increased use of the lake , and this comes from m.�ny sources. Peop� e
�� �
Tape 1
Page 2
Special Meeting of the Village Council. , Mareh 31 , 1969
obviously coming from the Twin Cities surrounding area, and Rlso peo��-1e on
tYie lake that have had inereased use , there ' s increased building, and so
on.
And then on the fifth point , which is pertinent to certainly one of ot�r
serious considerations here , and that is 1ltaxwell Bay. I think without
no question, this bay is really overloaded, and I think this eomes from
sources that have observed the operation in here , from ma,ny phases of
consideration that we have sor,e 300 commercial docks presently on there ,
and some 40 docks that are residential , and the lake is a small lake, and
a very shallow lake . There are sor�e 3. 3 miles of shoreline , and a very
small body of water. Now, I think wii;h the facts that pretty �vell add
up to the significant�e of the lake problem, that it is important that we
as a body that is concerned with the use of the ].ake , and to preserve
it , that we should certainly make some intelli�ent deeisions that are
based, not on emotional feelings , or on he�asay, but on some factual
data. Now, I think it is very significant that the bodies that were
organized specifically to give some guidelines have not been able to
complete their work, and I speak specifically of the Lake �tinnetonka
Conservat�on District, that has been in existence over a year. They
recognize the complexity of this problem, and nov� they feel that more time
is needed, �s do other interested groups and a.etivit�es in this area.
Essentially, from ttiis standpoint that pollution is certainly not just
caused by marinas , certainly not . It ' s not just caused by sewers , It ' s
not just caused by motorboats on the lake . It ' s not just caused by lawn
fertilizer running into the lake , and farmers fields , and so on, It ' s
a �vhole collection of things . I think the fact that these areas are now
recognized as contributing factors , and their area of importance is not
fully understood, and to this extent, I feel tha.t we definitely should
�ecognize that t�iese experts who have pointed out the fact that more
serious study and factual information is needed, that we would be very
wise to follow in a path such as this , And that I would throw open for
consideration here that we basically should not consider any eYpansion
of marina activity for one year, and ta defer action on these very serious
considerations on the basis that wt�en this information is kno��vn, with this
factual data before us , we then will have some information from which to
base some very sound, rational , and fair judgements , And I do this on the
basis of public welfare , in terms of the use of the lake . Because if we
make a big cesspool out of this lake , it certainly is going to be of li�nited
value , to really, noone . And I think, just as �ve see Lake Erie , and what
we 've been told has happened there , is a pretty serious situation, and now
they' re trying to recoup it , and it ' s �oing to take quite a few generations
to even put it back part way. Arid I think with Minnetonka, that since we
are in a position of serious situations here , that we had better take stock
of where we are going right at this point and recognize th�t we need so�^e
sound factual guidance . So, based on those five facts , �.nd the consideration
of wh�t might be reasonable from a public standpoint, also recognizing th�t
there is a serious responsibility in terms of property owners , both who have
residences , and who have invested in lakeshore property, say that is zoned
for lakeshore commercia.l , and so on, these all have vested inter�sts that
certainly need consideration, and proper protection. �3ut I think over �nd
above this whole picture comes the basic welfare of
the �vhole lake. And I throw that out for kind of a point of consideration
at this end, to say, based on that , to essentially wait until we can have
some factual basic infoIImation from which to consider these ����� levels
of expansion, because , certainly, if we provide expansion here , one right
��� / Tape 1
Page 3
Special 114eeting of the Villaoe Council, A4arch 31, 196g
next to it, or very close t� it certainly could not have it denied on their
point of it just because one other was or was not granted.
Searles : Good points .
hta�ror: I can ' t help think, Dick, that your thinking is prett,y good, l�e
have such a problem with the lake , and we ' re getting into such a problem,
that it really worried me a lot on the sewer business that we ' re faced wi�h
in this Villa�e , and allthe other Villages around Lake i�linnetonka, and the
t�rrific cost we ' re going to face in trying to correct t? e lake , They
don ' t con�e out and say that this is the only, the whole thing. �1re know,
and I think everybody kno�vs , that therc ' s a lost r:ore to the pollution
of the lake than sewers going in or any o� the other things that Dick
mentioned, but it is a big problem, it ' s a big money problem for �.nybody
that ' s representing a villa�e on this area today.
Searles : lt ' s a big ►:►oney problem for the fellows �i�l-�o have invested in
mari.nas , too. They've got to have some assurance . �3ut thev are somewhat
in the same position we are as a village , because just here in ' 63, we
were assured by the I)epartment of Yublic Health that it ' s all right to
set up a se�age plarit , that this is a substantial improvement over the
old septic tanks and drainfields running into the 1ake , a.nd it �vas , But
here we are six years later, being told that that ' s out , fell�.' , you can' t
have a sewage plant draining into Lake �7innetonka. The countdown is
starting now on all of these . In other vaords , things have changed. I
guess we didn ' t change them, but tliere they are. I thinli in line �vith
what you ' re saying, we could get ahead with so�ie of this , because some oY
these facilities that are asking for licenses are �.sking on the sar.e basis
of last year, and I don ' t think there ' s any reason to deny anybody the
continuation of their license on the same basis as it �as issued last yea.r.
And from that ��oint of view, I think maybe we coi�ld go down these that
are on that basis , purely and simply, and take care of those , and then
where there ' s some request for expansion, let ' s take more time and consider
those . This all right?
i4iayor: I don ' t think that the Council has any idea on cutting do�n what
we had last year, especially not until we find out what this Conservation
District does come up with. I think �ve ' d better have some better guidelines
to go with, that ' s for sure .
Stubbs : �'�e have S�tte ' s on the first one . . . . . I would move we hold to
eight slips on Spates application.
Searles : I 'd sec�nd that--just hold at eight.
Discussion of Spates marina license application from 102 to 142
Discussion of North Shore Pure Oil marina license app? ication from 1'�� to
182�
Discussion of Stubbs Bay Rsarina marina license ap�lication from 182 to 282
Also discussion of regulations assu�ing to apply unless variances are noted
in granting of � icenses .
���� � �ape 1
Page 4
Special Meeting of the Village Council , hiarch 31 , 1g69
Gayle ' s 14iarina - 28z to end of tape
Whitehead : . . . I would like to point out one thing on Gay1e ' s application
it pertains to the whole ?.iaxwel.l Bay �iroblem. He states that he currently
has under consideration plans for expanded use of his property and tiis
It ' s in his application and i�h ' � in his letter to this Council . r�lthough
he is not asking for any increase at this time .
Searles � One point , the application was for the same--134, and then in
a cYiange here it shows 158 , so i.t has been changed.
�Phitehead: TYie �xama�a� resolution of the eri�iinal action stio�ald not be
of concern to the Countil.
Searles : But how about issuing a license �� again for this coming year
that hasn' t been observed the previous year? As a licensing body, do we
have any responsibility to the general electorate to just say well yah,
we uphold the laws here , the guy doesn ' t pay any attention to the licensi.ng,
he doesn ' t get another one .
�hitehead : I think you sYiould takeit just as far as there has been an
allegation made i��g� that last year he did not operate within the context
of tiis license , and it ' s undisputed that there were certain problems with
his operation, some of which were cleared up and so�e of �vhich weren ' t.
I don ' t think that you should draw any conclusions from the fact that the
criminal action was instituted, because it has not been processed to its
conclusion, and it may not be .
Searles : The fact that we ' re the one who is making the allebation doesn' t
affect our issu$mg a license the next year?
�hitehead: Oh, sure . But I don' t thinl: yo�a should say he viol�.ted it last
year, because . . . .
Franzel : tiVell , wait a minute , thovgh. It isn ' t a matter of us saying so-
it ' s a fact that he put in 17 ex#�ra docks , and this isn' t any hea��say,
this is a fact. Okay, now. . , . . .the fact that he put in more doeks than
what he was licensed to do is one tliing, and tl�is is a fact, I me�n, our
inspector verified this . �e don' t have to go to court to find out that he
put in 17 more , surely. He may be contesting that he should have more on
it� sY�ouldn ' t he?
�hitehead : The on�y thing I 'm saying is that don ' t say we institiited a
criminal action aoainst him.
searles : �e don ' t have to say anything about that--just say he hasn' t
lived up to his license of last year, i.sn ' t this true . Heck, we do find
some facts ourselves . �e don ' t have to sit back and wait .for � court to
tell us whether or not there were 17 extra. . .
bZayor: �Vel�l, how can we issue a license to soruebody that di.dn ' t live up to
his license last year?
�hitehead : I 'm saying that I think you should try to reso].ve G�yle ' s
problem now, on the best basis that you can. IP that ' snot satisfaetory
to him, we ' re going to be back in court anyhow vsith this criminal ��etion.
A criminal action, I don' t know--I don' t think it accomplishes a gre��t deal .
��� �
Tape 1
Page 5
5pecial '"°eeting of the Villa�e Council , Niarch 31 , 196g
�,'hitehead: Itd mueh rather see us try to deal with this particular aetion
now, on the best basis we can, with the kno�vled�e that he has been a problem
in the past .
Searles : I want to ask a question , no�v, legally. Suppose we license
plumbers. Suppose a plumber made a mistake , or intentionally violated
law in hooking up a sewer of a house to one of our sewer mains, and because
of this he was in violation of r;is license , and we said, we revoke yo��r
present license . A year from then he ' s in co�.irt , and he ' s still contesting
it. He cor�es up for a ne�v license to do the same sort of thing in Orono.
�ould we be entitled to tell him that he could not hook up to the sewer in
Orono? , because our experience with him had been such that we wouldn' t
license him aoain.
Whitehead: Normally you �vould be able to revoke the license for failure
to obey. . . .
Searles : And not issue the one the next year.
�hitehead : Yah
Searles : ��'e ' d have to use some judgement , wouldn ' t we?
�hitehead : Correct
Searles : B,��itt , I agree with that .
�rhitehead : The point being here , the criminal action was continued in an
effort to resolve ttie �ga���x marina' s pro�lem, not frustrate it , a.nd he
, whic� means , forget about it, =,ltl;oi�gh you can ' t
forget about the fact that certainly there �ere problems with this marina
that did result in coi�rt action. That the amber light , and the trash outside,
and in the past ye��r there have been problems witli other marina operators ,
some of �hich led to court action, and some of which dicin ' t.
Searles : I agree with you, the point isn ' t in the litigation, it ' s to get
a reasonable standard of public oper•ation of these marinas , th�t ' s the �vhole, . .
Stubbs : �hat is the report on tYie number of slips hehas now, does anyone
know?
Searles : There ' re still there .
Stubbs : IIe did not cut them back?
Searles : No, there ' se still there .
Whitehead: �;'ell , the court action was not resolved until after. . .
Franzel : I guess the part that just completely baffles me is that if it
was a clearcut case of ti.��here he put in more docks , why we h�,IIen ' t got some
power to go and do it , or else to shut }�im down.
�6hat I 'm wondering here , Marc, is if he has got more docks in there , �vhy
can' t we com�letely deny his license at this point , and wait tzntil so:�e
corrective action is taken, before the next consideration, a.nd inthe
meantime, he doesn' t operate as a marina.
�-��# 7 Tape 1
Page 6
Special bieeting of the Village Council , �iarch 31 , 1969
l�Yhitehead: He has app�ied for a number that is below the excessive level
that he has .
Searles : �Ie ' s changed the application to 158--he ' s 22 ��igher than �hat
was approved last year--he ' s changed it.
�Phitehead: Again, I don ' t want to give you any policy on that, but one
possible solution �vould be to grant it for the same thing as he had last
year, and we ' ll write him a letter, because certainly all this is on the
record. If he persists in ke:,ping the ezcess docks in there , and if this
is not good, we can try to bring an action to try and get thoseout of there. . .
Franzel : One thing, now, say that he starts opening up on niay 15, ov�r
here , can we go out and just put a padlock on his operation at tt,is �oint ,
if he ' s in violation of this�
�hitehead; You' dhave to bring an action.
Searles : A court can do that , but not us .
Franzel : You �nean, another six months , ��nother season goes by and �ve ' ll
be in the same boat as we were this year?
VPhitehead : You could perhaps get a temporary injuction a�:ainst him.
It ' s kind of hard to show irreparable harm . . .
Searles : Is it possible to grant this license at the 134 level with the
condition that the license is only good if this actual number of docks
are in existence on a certain date , say like the 15th of
hiay.
ti'6hitehead: It ' s not necessary, that ' s the law anyhow.
Searles : The law doesn' t seem to operate. The law doesn ' t seem to work
in this case .
Franzel : I don ' t follow you. I mean, if he �an go in and deliberately
put in 17 more than he ' s authorized to, and still keel� them going, well
now, why can' t �re go and do something? I mean, if a doctor goes out and
deliberately vio�ates the medical rule, believe me , he ' s not operating
tomorrow, and I mean, that ' s tomorrow, not. . . .
Searles : Same t� ing if you ' re driving a car, siarc, if you ' re going 60
in a 50 zone, the cop isn' t going to just �rave at you and say, I noticed
that you ' re goin� 6o--r;ush it up to 70, fella' , cause I can' t do an,ything
about it. He ' s going to have you over at the curb,
�fihitehead: ? I 'm s�,ying that perhaps the soltztion might
be , �� eveIll just have to see how all these things come 011t� but it might
be a little easier--you know my theory--you never solve any problems by
going to court. I ' d like to at least see , personally, the branting of
the number of slips which he �vas issued last year, and the year before ,
as I recall. . . .
�''ran�el : 1Pe11, are you saying, then, thatcome nsay lst in her� that if he
,�`�. �
Tape 1
Page 7
doesn ' t cut it down to the right number, we then can close him up--revoke
his license?
tiPhitehead : I would think youcould then autharize me to institute a legal
a�tion that would have that as its purpose , yes .
Searles : But, meanwhile , for the next month you ' d grant the license at 134?
Just from a legal standpoint.
1lrhitehead : A practical standpoint.
Searles : A practical standpoint , yes . I agree with you--I don ' t want to
go to colirt . I think it ' s just absurd to keep running to court on these
things .
�'hitehead : At some point these guys have got to re��lize that you know
every year you can' t come in and make a lot of hullabaloo about getting
a lot of new slips . I 'm surprised that the application was ehanged, because
the letter from his attorney that we have , which formed a basis for my
study of these applications , he was not contemplating any changes ,
Searles : �t'ell , his application here has been ch�nged , and his fee . . . .
�Iave you got it down there?
�°hitehead : I 'm lookin at it now, yah. T 'm looking at a hfarch 11, 1969,
letter that Jim Grathwol accompanied wi16h it
Searles : IIe ' s figured ris fee on 158 slips , hiarc.
Whitehead : I wasn ' t favored with a copy of that.
Stubbs : Sure seems like it weakens our position to grant a license to
tell him to take them down. If it ' s right, it ' s right , but if it ' s wrong,
it ' s wrong.
��«rzel ;
�� : �ell , hiarc, suppose ��e don' t issue him a license--su��ose we
hold on t6is until he gets his place straightened up, period?
t�'hitehead : R'ell , I think again, that the cri�ninal action was continued
as we discussed here , with the understanding that these problems we �vere
goigg, to attempt to ivork out this year, we were going to forget ��bout the
criminal action, because there vrere problems on bot}; sides of that case ,
as it existed before the court, so it ' s a reasonable decision at that point,
and with that ;4iike agrees ,^ that the case should be continued with the idea
that we didn' t want toidismiss\ it . On the other hand we w�nted to eliminate
it from consideration with tliis year' s application.
Searles : All right , suppose we were to not necessarily grant the license ,
but send him a letter saying it is the intention of the 6ouncil to grant
you a license to operate from 134 slips this year, and this license in the
intention of trie Council , will be granted �vhen such number of slips has
been verified by our inspector, ho�v about that?
j�'hitehead : Then you� re aksing him to go ahead and do something without a
license for it, and I prefer to see the license granted , and see that he
behaved properly. You can always revoke it if he doesn ' t. . .
. .���'�! � T a p e 1
Page 8
Special bleeting of the Villabe C�;uncil, �1arch 31 , 1969
Searles : Of course , he ' s not open for business you kn�w yet--that water
is still hard out there .
Mayor: «e 've got the licensed revoked right now and there hasn ' t been
any action.
Searles : He ' s over the number right now.
�hitehead: I think it 'd be better to grant the license and tell him that
it ' s going to be yanked quick, that he c�n expect caurt action if he doesn ' t
obey.
Searl.es : r'ine , well let ' s put a date on it, okay`?
Whitehead : Put a date on it. It ' s from day one , as far as I 'm concerned,
If the ice goes out on April 14, and he has a reasonable length of time
to get those docks out, say by April 30 and those docks are still in there ,
then I consider him in violation of the licese that was granted.
Stubbs : �'�ell , rvhy don' t we move to that
Searles : �Vhy don ' t we say two weeks after the ice goes out on A4a�ve11 ' s
B��, that ' s a reasonable length of time?
�Phitehead : 1�'hy don' t we set it to the date that the criminal action was
continued to, which I think is ASay 15? Oh `'
Searles : Gee , by that time he ' s got all--the bo�ts are all pizt in, and
it ' s kind of sillyl� it ' s a waste of the Couneil ' s time, it ' s a waste of
the people ' s money, just vae ' re running a government that doesn ' t operate .
Franzel : That ' s right , I just get completely exasperated with. . .
Stubbs : I � d really rather say I�iay 1 . He can get on the ice a lot easier
than in the water to take them out. I think, really I 'd go back to :�iay lst.
Searles : I agree with you. That ' s a month' s tir-e , and this is ample .
Stubhs : Ttiere ' s either a �ight way, or a wrong way, and if we ' re wrong. . .
�earles : ��'ell if we ' re wrong, therc> ' s a court to set us straight .
Stubbs : All right , I�11 move to that.
I�iayor: It ' s been moved to grant a license for 134 slips , with the under-
standing that additional slips are out of there by l�tay lst, or else the
license is revoked.
Stubbs : It ' s automatically revoked, right?
�'tiitehead : . . . . . . .? , , , , , , I would like to point out that in \-ir. Gratl�wol ' s
letter he also states that his client had 300 feet before in terms of dock
length, and that the setback regulations are such th�at they would result in
cutting back in the namber of docks . . . .
END OF TAPE 1
. ,���' �
� Tape 2
Page 1
Special hseeting of the Village Council , �iarch 31, 1969
Discussion continues on Gayle ' s ;�tarina application :
Franzel : Yah, well I think witlzout question, that he ' s got to use his
own facilities and have them available for his clientele .
�9hitehead : You should �orma�ly make that pa�-t of the motion.
Franzel : Okay, I would like to add that phase of it to it.
Searles : is that all right with you, Bill?
Stubbs : That ' s certainl,y what I�ve been thinking about. How �vot�ld �e
word that , though.
Franzel : That he must have approved sanitary facilitaes and ��ave them
available to his clientele .
Mayor: You've heard the r�otion, and the second. All those in favor
(ayes) Contrary? (none)
�Tanager Lake Side-I:ehtinen property
Discussion of Browns Bay Riarina license application from 2z to 33.�-�
Also discussion of application of Reed ' s , Inc. (Brown '� Iiay Side)
Discussion of North Star biarina license application from 33} to.3���� c�.�,�,
�
Mayor: The North Star A�arina had 95 last year _ is akking for the same .
Someone : The variances are in there .
Searles : �Ve have a letter which requests that we grant variances because
of existing construction in the water.
A�ayor: ( ? ) the new ordinance calls for
Sear�es : Right .
Butterfield : I move that we grant the 95 with the setback variance and
the length variance , as applied for.
Searles : I second that .
Mayor: It ' s been moved and seconded--any questions? Al1 tl�ose in favor
say aye (ayes) Contrary? (none)
,Ja,�e.�SI Tap e 2 — Pag e 2
TTork 1�p�>l.icati on
Special '�[eF�ting of the `'illa�e Cot,ncil , l�iareh 31 , ] �?F9 Pa�e 1
I3utterfield : In looking at certain ��.sPeel�s 1�cre , fr�m tlle 1 ; ;;�,1 �s�ects
of tlris application, and lool:in, at tl�ze various other interr=sts l. a_].e the
off sl�ore property o�vners , t;�e zonin� of ti�i s property as la.ke s��ore
coz!,riercial , ttie gener��l. po].lution of the ] a��:e , ��nd ttle ��rohl.eris aln�g tr,��t
litie. Cf:nsidering �sliat tl!e boat traffi.c i.s , and also ':F epin� in ,�ind tlie
county accesses over in Nort)i �rm contribiitin� to `:oat tl�affic, and. l��vi ng
a problem to some debree . tldding all tFiese t:.ings togetlter, I ���o:,7d ].il:e
to come up laitti tl7e , propose a moti.an here , for a�praving }�is �ppli.c�ti �n
for a bu i ldiri�; as }�resented , «lii;h a formul.a of �] ips set i�n on t��a_s basis--
150 dry slips be allo�ved if t}ieie ' s no �vet GJips , and t?�en �;�in� t��ro>>�1�
tYae formula, tivould be 10 �,a�et slips--125 dry sli�s , �4 Zvet �li.rs--J.�O c�r,y
slips , 31f �vet slips--75 c�ry slips , �{lt lvet �].i��s--5p dr�,� s l i.��s , ";n �+ret slips—,.—
25 ciry slips , 64 �=ret slips--no dr,y sli��s, r'ssentia� ly tl�is iq �ronosed
ti�7it1� a 2t to 1 reducti.on. ��.'�AIr. 3�ork i���i�].d reduce l�is ��,�et s1.i�s ��,y �very one
l�e red�.aces and goes irito dry slips �5�it1� it , �tirhy close tn it �?t t'iis i,inle ,
Franzel : Say, are you taJ}�in� aY�out tl�e hui l din� a�prov�l , <�nd tyi njr i t
to the clock on }iere? '''oulc� you �ive rie a cou��le of tl;ose fi.�,��res a�aan?
T�,is 1>0 ciry arld no 4vet , and l0 dry and }-�o�r many �.�et?
�3utter�ield : 125 dry -- 10 �bet, 1(10 dry -- 2�-� 11'P.t , 7� dr�---3'� ivet,
50 dr,y �vith 44 �ret , 25 dry �a-i.t"> j0 �=.�et, no clry slips , to ��� �vet . 3�r,y
slips are �,oing to reduee the ��olltaetian 5iti.iation in tli{; l.a�ce tn ,� cle�;ree ,
Tlie building lias been desi.gned a.,spe�3rs to l.�e a v�ry fav�r�.b7 � ciesi �n.
Tl�e prol►erty is laliestzore corirriercial , .�nd he ' s a�pl,yinr; for ��. ���;ilclin�T
tliat is s�.ifTiciently n�ithin tkiat re�,�on.
r[a,yor: '"hat ,yoi� ' re ��ct�i��l ].,y saying tl�en, if }�e t�a.s t�,e �i1� ���et �l i ps
that 1ie 3�ad last �Tear, t:>.e bui.ldin� �err�it 4voiald Y�� rranted, ��.nc� taiis
�vould be the e�:terit of t}ie s].i;�s .
Butterfield : Yes , so there �voi�ld b� no increase in t�oa,ts.
liayor: 13t1t if y-o�i ��anteci to m�,l.e r:�ore clry sJ ips , then , , . ,
� �k_
Searl.es : No��;, ���e you �vere at tl:e Platlning Cor=i�riission rneetirl�, too,
and a lot of consider�,tions lzere t}lat ;;�ig}�t not meet tl�� e,yF> ��t first ,
Cert��inl.y, trlat the ;�oal of �;ettin� l�o�.�its out of tre «<<�t�r, t�ee<�t�se tl�e,y
spend ���ost of tlleir time not in t�se , ti�ev' re not under �vay ��.� 1 tY�e ti.m< ,
tl�e5' re not in l�se 1��� t}aeir oti°aners �nost o-f tt�e ti.�e . If t.hey� re st�red
3Tou're contributinh to tliis t�usiness of getting tlie con�estion o�at c�f tr�e
lalce , and gettir�h tile pollEiti.on out . As a �,rinciT�le , I tl:i.n�� t� is is a
goocl one , and I a�ree «�itl� it .
",.ayor: You' re real.l.y talkin� tl�ien, on tl�is ti�eory of. , .
Searles : �'ah, and certain],y not to eY��and an,yt��in� t4�a.t �o�s intn tlie
lake .
Franzel : I tl�i.nl� there certainl,y i s a lot of ineri_t to s��ne of t'�ose
c�nsidera,tions on there . I tl►ir:�1� t►,ie pa,rt th�t deep],y concerns rne l�ere ,
is that in tryi.ng to be fair and equital�le t� t!ae l�ke �.ase oY�erati.on,
ttrat , I'or eYample, if pt�tting up a b��ilcli.nm , 1v� ict� i_s cert�i_nly a fi.ne
buildi.rig , in tl�is ? here , tllat G�+ �eet s] ips ���oi�ld be per=�a.ps �� little
tiard for equali ty to recogni2,e tYa�a.t ��i n� do«n t'�e 1 i.ne a 1 a.ttl e �e�a.,ys �
that Gayle has 134, and it ' s c�t�ite obvi�us tl�at t?�is is qi�ite a :Pi_n�nci_�1
difference in terrns of the iritalce for i.isinn publ ic park.i n� c�f ?�o�`�.ts . I
ttiink my e�itre�nely deep concern is that t':e increased t,se of tkee 7�,lce
. ,
��-#-� Tape 2 — Pa�e 3
Itor]� l��n] ication
Special �ieetin� of the Vi7la�e Cou,,cil , '3arch ;1. , l�?69 Page 2
and tl►e implied activity t�i�,t tivoizld h��v� to go ��:ii,'� the T,t�rina o�era.ti on
here , and to t�.is e:�tent , it lvould seem tY���t we ������ld be ob] i.���ted reall.y
to treat tt�e�e mari nas virti�a,l ly the sarne , and f�r <in n��erati nr� t!i.�t
��o�,ld liave close to one e�i:���rter of a million dolJar inve�trnent, and say
yoii can li�ive on]y 64 bo�.ts in tiie ]ake , ��.i tt: no dry stor.a�;e , ��nd then tive
go c1o���n ,just a fe��v t��undred f et and a �i�y can �,aut a �1 134 ���i. tl�� very � i�nited
facilities on shor•e , «ould s��em ] ike an e�tremel,y di_ fficult situatinn to
su�;port in terms of being f�ir to all concerned . I tYii r�l•: t' is iti�r�s tlle
part tliat I was Iioping tt�e increased information that ��rn :1d t�e av�i? k3l��le
from t}ie Lalce '.finnetonka Cnnservataon District , t'�e biol ��;ics�7 l.�b tl��t
i.s coming i.nto actual ity now, ��-otild �ive socie �:;re<�tf��l ,�i�i.r��ance thr�.t �a�c,i�ld
I�e reasana��le and eqiii table , beca�tse I tl�ink puhl i c interr st b cor:Ees of
extrer�ely deep concern, and tl►at cert��inly in no �vay refl�ets on tl�P fine
buildin� t��t �,;as bein� proposed , t�;at in itself . I tl�ink it ' s oY�vi.o�is th� l-
the lake , tlle �say it is presently used ri�l;t no!�.�, c��rtai.�;l�T �se h�ve had
m<�ny irist�inces co��lpl.aining a.bout tlae oi 1 , �.' out t'�e use of t}�e 1.�lic� , and
t}�e �ener�,l contam� nation tYiat e�:ists at tl�is s�ot , �,nd the ir��]_i.ed activity
tliat t}ii_s ��ould perrii.t �voi�ld be e:�ctremely diTfi.ci:i] t tc� slal�sta.ntiate a
position of s��ctY a fe�v number of docks for �iic}i a �li� `? inv�st^�eh�re .
And that once i.n there, obviously the �n�n iV�)U�CI 'e�;v� to ��e ,�ranted certain7 ,y
a ri�l�t to �.�ti l i �e tl�at faci] ity.
Stur�bs : I don ' t see 17o�v . . . . }�ou ' re 1�a�i.n� t?�ose . . , thi s ���rti cl�lar c�se
as you r�:enti.oned rea] ly c;oesn ' t ��.=jv!� pa.rl�in� facilities . T��i�; i.s cert�inly
a very relatc>d r� +;tiirer,lent . IIe ,.jiast couldn ' t �o t'�ree tim�;s as ,�c', . 1�e
probaX�7v doesn' t ��.�v�.;� e��c��lF;l�i tY�e ��,�ay z�t, is , '°��'e c�rt�lin7_y l�.�Eve ti�e lev��ra,�e .
'"e ,ive l�i�ii ir�ore sl.i��s riR1�t no�v tlian tlle nc�-�t fel.lo�;� ii�? the ? ine , �:�?ich ,1��•,�-��
probal�ly isn ' t ri�ht . �
Searles : It ' s on a lbistoi�i.c�jl 3�asis . . .
Franzel : I think t�iis �vas my basi.c st�3nd Cor - �anting to ._r,et Sor,F factf�Tl
inforr.�ation in frori tl�lese �roi�ps , bFcause cert.�.in)y tk�e e�����erts rig}�at
no�v reco�;riize �ve Yiave a prohleri, '�ut t�ze,y �.re not a:Y�le tn co� ,F� i�p `:�it}� G���e
sl�ecific �;i;�iclel.ines . T',iey a] 1 recor;r�ize i.t ' s a pro'�lero.
St�zbbs : I ' d lil:e to ask I�Zarc, if �.ve . . . ,
�:ND OF Tt�PF 2 ( �d)
��
�-��� Tape 3 — Page 1
I�OI�,I� 11PYT:I CnT I ON
Special '�Ieeting of tl�e Villa�e Council , �iarcl� "�1 , ] �69 I'a�;e 3
I3I,GI\T`�I\G OF' TITIRD Tt1�'L'
Franzel , already speaking : t��til� T''at it is bein� c�nsidered t� ��� rez�ned,
and so on , and tlierefore , n�t to constri�e t'�e iss�iance �f t'ii.s ] ice�lse
as pre—er,i��ting a ri�l�t into tEze future , '�'el ] , no���, �vk�en that �ironerty
«�as rezoned , it �ti-as reversed bv t3ae court , and they indicated �F�ca.3,se the
effort tlia.t tiad been a�ade , and so on and so an, tl�a.t there �vas �. ri�}�t
t}iat tliat i.lidividtial had. Ol.ay, it �w��s t1�en z�ne�� l�acic �f�air� . ''�'ell no1�r,
I only sa,y tl�is fro°�� tlie standpoint tY�at even n��ttin� c�o��n tfie reco,�ni �ion,
the 1'act tllat you once �et ,y�i,ir foot � n tl�e door, �:�',en a fine f�ci7it,y
l i.ke thi s conies i.ip, I t�,i nli ti��e ' re jl.ist �vhistl in� in t}ie da.rk to t!�in�z that
it is not going to have to }�:�ve ri�ore l�se . I Mean, T ' m s�ire tt��.t t��ey
coiila s��o�v that you c�ul�:in ' t s��p�aort it tlia.t ����.,y. It ' s ]. il�e ].ettin� a
huy blaild a �reat big �;rocery stare , arid sa,t,-in� ����� can o3� ' ,y� Ia<7ve t�n
people a dai- corne in . I mea.n, it ' s a �lit:tle �it ridizloi�s , I t1Rin1�. A]_so,
I �rot.�ld feel that in tairness to tlie ot�;er o;�rrators in t��ere , t�.ere t�� �L�].c�
l�rzve to Y�e some L�retty hood ec�i�ity al_1 tl.e �vav across t3�e kfo�rc� . I �=�ean,
ts�is is a free , cor�petitive t,y��e of an o3�eration i s:� ia�re , �nd I t':�ink
only the puUl ic �-�Te�`'are s!�olzld be a control.lin� �uidl. ine nn tiii.s ; tl�at �,^e
cannot jiid�e lio�v a rnan sho�zld o��erate !;is b�_�si.nesr-��� , e.�:cE�t to t�1e ��=:tFnt
that i.t inf'l i,iences and affer,ts ���}�at is �il.zrl i c :�etivi ty, AP�d to tl�is
eLtent , t<<is is ticlly I ��oiald feel to ?�old t+�e line at ti��i.s ��oint , ��er��izse
we l:rio��� �se 've got s�acli a serioi�s �>roh7em. It ' s ri�t a c�,se o�', I t��in�t,
tr,ying to regulate ju�t ���h�t can ��e c:one financially, h- c�+�se I rion ' t t`�inl,:
`e�e ' re ttie riglit ?tody to do tiaat . T?ie,y ha.v� ever,y ri gltt i n tl�e «�nrl.d to do
it . I3ut ���?�en t1�e T��i�,lic r�-e] i'are cod�3es i.nt� being, t' en T tlEink, o�?vir�us]�,
that }►as a serioiis cor�sideration. ilnd t�:is is why, I tii��ia]d feel tY�at �ve
are in essence , if it i.s �,ranted at t1�is point , t'�e investr�ent i f m�.de ,
1►e ohviously is entitled 1;0 l�.<�ve a full fin�ncial rettirn fro�°� it , a.nd
t}iat ' s only ri�ht--I ntean, h� s}aou].d }rave . TTe cert��inl.y c��.n ' t k��� e�nected
to operate a Y�usiness �ri.th practic�� ll,y no Y��:siness is permitt��d , S� t` is
wot.ild be tl�ie dan�r�r t�,�.t I �vo�.+l.d feel in �;r�ntinF� a l���iilciiftg perm.it a-t t1ri.�
tir�e , arid I tliink ni,y only Z�I.ea �vni,il.ci be i s t� recognize at: t'�is 3�oi.nt � e
have lir�ited inforrn�tion ��bout the 1�1•�c use , �?nd tl�at certain�y t� riefer
tl�i s action for a year, �:7ased on }�tab7 ic i.nter� st , ��nd ����?�l i c •.^�� l f�re ,
svot.ilci ��e tl�e on�y ba.sis for it , :�nd I �voizJd sav t!ie s����+e t��in� at R Pcl ' s
landin�; . '")zat t��ey' re a.sl�:a.ng far is � ver�= reasonab.le t,ype of a.n ii�cre�.se
in Eiere,�,F��it I tl�ink t}ae sa�a�e 7 agi c �f ?�oldin� t��e l ine a.er�>� t?�� l�o�rc1
in liere � sonie ;��aid�lines Y�,y t,se e�perts can ;:1e ba.si_c�� 7,y �. �ree� on
ti��nu]d ;:�al�e our position, say ���uch riore compatible �:�itlt lot;ic, b c�,use
after tYie erfect is �l.read,y in in tnrms of t?�e b�iiJdin;, it obv.inusly t�as
to be covered, because in fact , if t�e couldn ' t �:�se i t , and �•�e ���r�•i tted
liim to b�.�ild it , cert��inl�� ti:e �r���,n c::..,l.dn ' t 1?ave a 1_oss lilre that ta.l:en
into accot:ant , tieit}Eout snme com;�ensati on. Ri�litfully he slrol.ilcl t�.nve ev� ry
reason to e�pect it . I mean, if �3�e gave a bizildin�; nerriit f�r :� ���Rn to
���ut iz�� a house , ��ncE tl�en si� 2:�ontl���s ].atF��r �.ve sai_cl , no, ,yo��, cs���� n' t '��a.ve
it , y��►' ve got to tear it c.�o�,•?n, �ve1.1 certai.nly, �:�P. C�!�:ldn ' t c:�;:neet '�i.m
to lose th��t kind of money for �ur nrinricio��s acti on. So T :�n�aJ c? 1 i.lc� to
add an ar7endment to tisis condition on ttae basis tliat action i.s �.eferred
for one year �n the 1�tailciin� perr�it for the given apnl i c;�tion.
11iay-or: Y�u ma�:e t�at ��s an �.merZdr.�ex�t tn tl�e ����tion. . , ,T��e a-��ti.on «r-� sn ' t
seconded.
Fratlzel : ()I� , I te�oia�}it ,yo�z l��ad n�s:�.de o��e--clid yoiz, I;nre.n?
3,�--�c��4c� � -1�.-�
'�Iayor: �`�as tliere a s�cond to tiz�t�?
l3utterfield : �Vo .
�-#�yr`� Tape 3 — Page 2
Ilor�c 1lpnlicatinn
Special t,Ieetin� of tlie Vil1�:�;e Council , ::aret� �l , ].�69 Pa�e 1+
Dlavor: Yours ���toul�� be a.n at;�end*nent �;o t�7e motion.
1�'ranzel : 1lmended the ��;otion that , . .
P:�ayor: Ttie r�otion hasn ' t been secnnded.
Franzel : Okay, t?�en. . .
Searles : Sirice tlle riotion l�<�sn ' t l�een �econded , and e�.n ' t l�e ��i��t�nc:�ed,
and r��e ' re still open for di scussi�n o:f tYae �eneraJ �it�iation, i t c�.n ' t
6�e an i] lusion tliat tt�erf: ' �•e t}�is_ c�ncern a':����t tlie 7��,e . Tl;i s i sn ' t ��ny
ti��ill—o—the—wisp t}iing. I tkii.nk t� � y�asic po] icy is , and n�rticuJarly :+s
it a��iilies to sr��ll are�s , like P�ia ���,e)_1 ' s F3ay. ?Te��e is an �r�a ?��here
�aublic tivelfare�. and }�ealth anci tlie con�r st:i.ori of t)7e l��aters--po�.l.tata.on �f
the i^raters is o�"� direct conef�rn of oizrs . T'�,is is a v��r�� r ra ] t��i.nn , �+nd
it sliouldn ' t really deny peoS�l.e the pr� �er ��se of ttleir l �.n�l , ?�ut �:�� ' re
in a 3�osition of not 1:����si.n�, frankly. T1ie r�ore sa,id on t�,is C�uncil ,
ttie less I kno��j. I 've ,�;ot anot�ier c������e of ,years t� �,o, T '�n �oi.n� to
��e the ;,:ost i�norant Y;uy you ever sa�r. �`.'e don ' t lzno�v no�v t�ie r� �ltion—
siiip ?�et��een the pollution, t�1P, cleterioration of La.ke �<ti.r�net�nl�.a, and
to the actions ���e tal�e here , and I can �oint hack to t?,e aci;i �ns far--
T;�ost of us ���ere on t�ae Cot�ncil--to set �zp tlzis sc�«�er distri.ct � `i'}1PY'F <<•e
checked �vitli tt.e 1:'lzr�l.ic II����lth people in tl�e state . T?::ey sai_d , 1'es , it ' s
all riglit to do it . Now tney� re saying it ' s tvron.�;. If cve don ' t 1c�io-�� 1,}ze
cotisec�t.iences tc� t�iis action, I tl�inlc t?aat ??i_el� �^as a ��oc� r�oi.nt here in
asking everybody concerned--the �eneral puhlic and tl�e petiti�ners here--
the applic�:�nts for ] ice�ses , to �o on for t��e year--ho_l.di.n� t}1i n•x.s i.n
abeyance for a ,year. I thinl: t?:i�s is a rcasnnah].e . . .T'�is is in face of
tl�e o��vioi.as fact as developed in the 1'l�xnni.n� Commi�sion rteeting, tl��t
t}ii.s t,y�e of operation for a ��i�rina i s c3esirat�].e one , t� s tart rettin� tt�e
l��oats o��t of tYie �eater, to store t���err� on dr,y l.and, and to m��1�_e a �;ood
investrrr;ent in the Y�usiness . }3ec�i�se a blisiness �vi tra t�o 1 i ttle ixav�st��ent
is of no creciit to a nei.�i ��orliooc� . It ' s �;ot t� ��zvP ��od ir�v�str�?e,r�t
iri order to r��a1�e it �� credit . Tha,t ' s ;i.�t a j�oint of vie�v.
(`�ir. I�r�rk atterir>ts to l�e rE::co�r�i.zed by tl�e C}iair, �����t '���`a�;�or PLo.�s s��.ys
lie can ' t let hirr� talk--�e.e had repre�entativ��s at t�le 1 �st r��<:�ti rl�� , )
Searl.es : Ti��t ' s ji.�st a �eneral. ��o� ,•it of vi ^�4�, i.t ' s �z�t a �°��tinn, ��i►t
it ' s in su��port of �vYl�t Di cic t�as said . I tl�inl;. that t'7e one ,ycar is not
an unreasonable tl.ing fror�:l t}re point of vi�:�i� �f �>�ibl.i.c �,�e7.fare , ^,Zi��� ic
l�iealtf�, and �.s it spPci fi caa ].y ap��] ies to '�ia�.:t��e] 1 Ray. �m' not tr��ing to
so]ve all of Lake hiir�netonka ' s probl.erns . TY���t ' s tlot ai�it'�.in ���t n��rve,y,
I doi� ' t tYiink tl�at �•re s}►ould even try to do tlz�at }'f ,�e . '�"}I<+t I 'r� saying
is there ' s a speci�ic sitt�ation ttie:��� tl���.t ,j�zst cries �i.�t f�r more
inforr�atic�n and l�no�e�ledge tfian �ve have tod�y, and the �vheel s -� re t��r�zinn,
and they ' re t�:irni.n� fast in many ways t� try to d�ve.lop t";is , ar�cl �ve
s}iould �� recognize tE�is .
D�Iayor: "�'e certainly �.ope tY��e,y d�, cn,��<e ���� �;�it�a s���e rea.� �uid���a anes . , .
Searles : �,'o�v, tk�,is is not to dis��re� �n�a_tli ,yo�ir �'orr:iula hPr� . I ttxink
tl�is is a �ood princ°iple . ",Eaybe it ' s hetter a;�p]_ied ne��:t year, I�oren.
I�utterfield : �°�'ell , I tliink yo�a ���ave to cor,ie ii�� b.•it11 s��Yzet'-in,� so7^��t? r���,
and I iiaven ' t lif::�rd anyt�:int~ yet--a forr�nla of �_=ettin� t11P l�c�ats o�,it of
tlie lake .
Searles : T}�is is a ,�ood point . I tl�ink �-ou 've �ot a, �ood, . , .
�e�# 1'� Tape 3 — Page 3
Ilork Applic�tion
Speci��l �ieeti.ng of the Village C��.incil , '�iarch 31 , 1969 Page 5
I3utterfield : And trie man is atter��pting tn do ttiis in one ���ay, at J ��st,
Not t}�at I agree �vith adding any �~�ore l�oats to the bay or anyt'�i_n� ] ilce
that , but I �eant to aslc ���r attorney, �ZThat is t'�e legal as��ects �f t}ii.s
as t�e sees it at tliis poi.nt , if �ve delati- it �n l:ere.
�`'hitehead : "'e 've talked ab�ut t11e le��] f�,etors o.f tF;i s 1�ef.ore , T}ierP
are facts t�efore the Coi_zncil now, ' oth fror�� tkoe loe.~�.rin�s , fr�r� the forr����.1
��resentations . It �vas indicated trzat incrF�ased �etivity i_n ttic� lake
causes a] 1 kinds of T.,rot�lems . T}►ere is c�ri�-� sti�n, poll»tion fr�i�i ��ro—
pellers , there ' s �as . These are faets t�efore t':e Coiincil . T4Ee Co�=ricil.
)ias con5idered ti�em �nd t}re I'lanning C�mr.+iGsion, severs�l tim� s . I'ere
again, �,ve do 2acic �,��aiciel � nes . 11t t'se ;��r�bl i_c ��eari.n.� noone ca.rle t��� ��ai t},
surgestions . . . . . . sl�ecific.�l.ly �ifi,er tf�e last several n�oritl�s r�cl �n�e didn ' t
conie tzp �vith any �uidelines . Ttie C�nservation Pistrict i�sas , so t1�1e C�»nci. 1
faced tvith t}ie potential for further increasi na t°�ese nrohlerns by i ncreasin�
ttre >>sa,�e o:f tlie ��ays �ti�o��ld be acta_n�; r4 as�na.bl.,y t� forest.�].l , It a���:ars
to be furt}ier z��x�x�zx� interest of t}ie C��fncil ' y 3iol.dirz� tl�e line , i�ntil
peri�a��s tl�e C�t�servation 1?istrict ] e�islation fias nassed, ol� some of tl��se
real tan�rible a.nd irzr�iediate solutions ri�.y be r�os�ir�le tlii,�� si�r�•��er or t�lis
fall . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I 'rn not nial�in�; y�»r deci_si�n for yo�� , T ' :� ,jLzst sa�-in�
it ' s a iE�ason�l,le approacl� to a prol�le�rt �f i�;�icily increasin� ?.ro;�nrti�ns .
On t}�e oLY�er l�and , I�oren ' s f'orrnula is a xg��:�xx��.��x very interestirlg i'or?���.ila .
I 've inclieated I never lilce to �ive the ott.�r si.cle sn��-;et>>_in� to t�.] ��:g
ak�c,ut , and if tl�e ] ine is fie] d , tize apr?li.c�ti �n of t`.is formiala C��i7.1 r l �'E'
the oticer side s�i+ietisin� to ta.11; al�oi�t . T 'm;>spealtin� of tiie ot;Fier t���o
i�:arinas , now. Ott�ier ttaari tYiat , vou '�:i�low ��•e 've talkcd �,�out tPle 7�r�iale��-�,
It ' s a question of���������� pol ice ;�o�.�er ��nci sr���i nrr t'i,�t a r���n '��s � rig!it to
c�ridtict tris bixsiness � r1 t:;is re5pect ;°�-!�en �;liere ' fi � ennfl.ict in �or.e
����x considera8�e degree �rit�� ot;her public interests . l�nd t!i� C�i?i�ci.l
iias certait�ly triecl i►�i tl�e 1�st �foi�r l��nntlis t� locate a11, t��e i��fori•_<��t��i_c,��
that ' s possible , formal. requc�sts , in1'orr��aJ rei�u� sts , and s�v�r�� l r�carings ,
and I t��irik that yo�.� �entl.e�rten liave t� rnake a �o] ic,y cteci.si.on, based up�n
the ����z�ta�xs�����x ? acceptable . If T 1����c� ] itm�is �aper l�ere ,
I cozild tell you l�io�r a pa ��tici°�lar jud�e �i�����ld ciec:ide . . . . . .
On t}le ot�l��er I�ia.nd , I think tt�at �, reasnnal�le appro<ic'�� i_s r�r�inn t�.l�en )�ere ,
«rt��i_chever �vay ti�nu go. I tliink ei.ther G�v����y is a rF�asonal�7 e s�ll��ti on t� tl�e
r�rohletn. . . . . . . . It �vould lae di.fferent if ,y��t� iust said � don ' t ��.nt ariy—
t}iin;; to lia,���en Y�ere , not for any partict�lar r{�asr�n--�.re ji.�,t �:nn ' t 1 i1�e
marinas . . . . . . . . . .On tl�e otl,er lland C�unci.l. ��as tler��r,�;i;�,iat t)Se{;e lie-;rings ,
f.or. ;al ancl inl'or��ial ciisenssi �ns , c�ea] t •�ri.th tl�e very 3��ei �;l��ty r�ro'�7 �m of
the �z���'�� Liere , ��nd it }aa.�; a ri �,?�t tr� ri�e t?�i. s ��r�-�erty for t?1e
purr�oses �v":ic}�r ? .
P'r��nrel : '`�'ell. , is there one ���otic?n izp?
'��'l,:itellead : T}��e ���rntir�n oii�;�:�t tn ?_te clarified ,
i�:avor, to `'��tterfiel.d : {:�� Y�>> �,�;it�:�iranl yr�i�r �.��otion4
�����x�i���� `�t�;l�bs : 1}0 ,you ��ant t� l�olcl t'.�at i'nr fiiture c����i.cier�tioz�4
i�utterfield : lf ti2a.t ' s yc��.ar :feeling , �.l�i�y `'
5tt.zi.�bs : I tliinls `ve ' re all. ����inst ;�oili.ition . I �,�orit:ler ' ��� � �F ' � ] r�rrive
at t4ie ri��tit ans�:�er, lvlietl�er �r�e 's�at i.n �r t'�ree ���t c�nr�tri':�at G t'�e 7 �zst ,
i�'l�itehead : ! thinl� yo�t ou�}�t to co��siut,r t',,, ,,r�' � =,�:s too, i.n r i �.tion—
s,ii.p to eVhat is e�:istinh tl�ere . 1'��, '.:ave a specific ;�r�r+�4;�;� Y�+�fore ,y-�iz,
#c�� Ta�1 e 3 — Pa e 4
/ ITnY'1{ 1�;��11 iC�i�iotl
Special l�Ieeting of tl►e Vi.] larce Co�inci l , '`.�rc1� 3l , ) �Fi9 I'a�T� ��
and there may be various aspects of the ;,r�sa] t'1�1t v�i� nc����dn ' t fa�-or at
t1�is �' and !Ji cl�: ' s l�-ointed �tit t!;��t tt;e l�i�i 1d� n{r, �:,���� �;nt a°� ly to
C�li slips in the ���ater ��i�ic}1 �.�.�ere present l ��st yF_��ir. :'�s I recal � y�li did
reali.ze titat ;�is ����r.l i cation =��ust l�� apT�rovnd or c� ± sa.p�►rov� d i.n c�rt�.in
respects .
Searles : '"e] l , the �vlsole tl�ing i s a p_l��n �.�tz i e)z �.L7 s� i nc� udes u�e �f tl.►e
building, so it real..l.y is part and ��arcel. of t!ie sar�e ttl � ri�. , . .
It ' s '��inted c;ut that tlie in�pli ed i,se of ttie land 1 S at�ni;t tt�e '�iai.ldi n�
is of irri�;ortarit consideration ��;:_en vo�: con�e to trae ��1.�s9nes�; of. tlie ��se
�:f ttie lake . Yr�u can ' t i�:ist ignore i.t , ��nd s�Lv 5;o ah�ad and bi�i.lcl�r�� t!�e
builciin�, anci close ou.t e,yes t� t�le ]�o,�.t �etivit,y in Ata�ti��ell T���y.
`��'��itel�ead : All I 'm satiin� tt�at as it st�j.nds l�ef�re ,yot� , it a���,r�ars to
be �. pa� cel . There riay be a �vay, i.t ��r��,y i�ot br� �,�ssi'�l.e t'��i5 evc�ni_n�,
i.�ut there r�la,y be ottier wa}�s to de:?1 ���it}l. . . ,
Searles : ''�ell , it rla,y very �rell be ,,ossibl� tl,at ti�nae of tY;e �rincitil «s
that Loren I>utterfiel.d is tall;in�� �.��o��t could be appl i � � to � cnt�tin�.�ation
of t}1i s l icense ����i t!r ttie approval of � 1�ui J cli r�� of a r�.ii.l di n� , and
re�:,oval of e..isting autl�oriz��d stora�e of i�o.;ts �.��ci rc�nt<�.1 sl.ips to
dry land . In other «�orcls , �ve n��i�l.dn ' t «�ant to ston 'oim f'r�m bi.�i ] dinr; a
b�zilding in �rder to �et '�o��ts otit of I,altie 'Ii��netonk�.. In ott�er -��nrds ,
tlie principle �loesri ' t I�ave to be linlced to a.n increase , c�o��s it , necessari]y,
. . . . . . .So liis ap��rov��] t� bt�i]d � h��ildi.n� r�nd i.�tpr�vc l�ira oper�.ti.on
is certain].�� not to Ue der►iecl by t',i.s Co1�nci7. . If lie �vant�d tn hiai ]_�l a
k�uildin�;, � ;ove boats oiit of t}Ze lake , �Ee ' re �17 lri_t?� hir;. It ' s tl,� incr�ra°- e
ir► t}�ie ntzm�ber of l��,oa.ts triat ' s tFie tzan�u�.
�P}�i tet;ead :
Searles : ' 'ell , I 'iFi pointin{T ont Rj.n a.s�,^ci; tl���.t ? ' m �:�ith , I ��ree •„�itt�
tl�i.s prirzci�] e .
I3utterfield : ""ell , I t}�i.nk tl�e prol�] em, T eni�lc�n ' t sQT�ar� te t!�i ��--
it ' s one ap�,lic.�tion--I cc�►ll.dn ' t s��ar��te t?�e :��°:i ] cla.n�-, fror�. t��e . . . .
Searles : "'ell , I dorl ' t �c,.�,:, �.,,,:ettrer v�u r� �, l lti- ha�-e to t.?].� a ;�ro��os�]
�:�11 or tione . '`'llv not sort of in�'iicr-.te <<�f�ere y�li ' re 1��it1e t.i�m, and �rive
tl.t�m t}�e rit;(it to ;o ��Ilead, evc�n i f the�T c�on ' t e::erci se tloi s ri.�!►t �t
., _. ,
least yotz ifavnn ' t said , z.vE:�ll. , no, I 'rt not ,:r�>ir��, to a����r�vF t'�i.s ; there—
fore I a���rovc nothin�;. ��'�'e don ' t �ca.nt to �h� . , ,
I3utterfield : `i'ell , I liacf tEie understanc:i.ng t�a�t �•,�e !�ac1 c>i t1�,�>r �r none . , ,
Searles : '"ell , ��marc ' s tellin� t.is that t'Eis is not n�cessaril.y tr�a� .
':"hitehead : It r�ay not k►e in tl��e forrn tl�iat yo��� �����zit to der�]. =���,it��i i_t that
w�y toni�lit, I d�n '.t kno�v. Y�ta ' re t��llcinn a]�c�ut fact t?t�,t sa��s tt��t ����.�
can der�] 1}�jtli tt;is"�'1�`� the basis t}�at t��is is presPnted to ,y�ii �+ncl yoi� • ay
riot f. ind i.t t�ossi��le t� �;o any flzrtl�er. (3i;�t on tlle ot}�� r 1��:�nd v�u riay
fincl it �,ossible eit}ic:r toni ;�ht , �r si.al�sec��serit nigZzts . , . .
5earles : IIe ' s �;ot to kno�r [iotiv to opF�rate f'or t?�i.s corr:ing ,y� ar. `�;it�;oi�t
r��alcing ttiis a motion, I jst�ulcl sii�gest that m.�,vbe t}�e area of pr�ctic��l.
action ri�lit no�v �v�i�ld l�e to a����rove tY�e �?ast dock si.z� and n��mber nf
slips , and that also state at�prov;zl of tk�e creation of a bui.ldinrv� tt7.,�t
�v��.ilcl aY�sorb arly or a].l �f t�rese , and iz}�on sul�r.�is sion of a s►�.it�3��] e
bui l�iin� a,,plication, so that tf�is co��lci be clone .
�
��y Tape 3 — Page 5
T'ork .rl���l icati.on
Special lieeting of tiie Vill�,�e Counc.i l , ':farcli ;1 , 1 �G� P��,,,�e 7
Stul�bs :Do �se have to tie in tlle ��iai�din,�; . . .
Searles : '"ell , it ' s tied in 2�c�re , you lcno�v--tl�er�: i.t is .
Sttzbbs : '"ell , i�nless s��e ;ji.ist act on t e ��tf slips i.n the �����ter.
Searles : '''el l , if vou cio ,j��st t!�at , yoii ' re ,Sort of i�nori r��; t,12e fact
that ttie ;;�.iy is mindful of t}�ese matters and pror�lems tli.�t ���� 've h��.d ,
anc� l�e ' s trying to do soi�etlii.n� ab���t it . �ie ' s trvi n� to d� it on �n
increased volt.ime , thd t'�at ' s ti�rhere the ��rot�le�� is . IIo`s c��n �re iricrease
one voll.ime , a„cl tell the others . . . .
Pranzel : I thi.nk that ' s the crux of the problem of incre�sing or per—
tnittin� a l�uilding at t}ii s point , bec�use I t},inl� that re���rdless of
�srhat ni�m���.rs at this tirTie , tlzere ' s ��,n i.mp] i ed fa.ctor th��t i s goi.n; t�
?►ave to ��e applied, anci to tt�is e:�tent , it �E��»l.d seem that if �ve are
close , and I think ���e can say ���e ' r•e ,�rett,y close to �retta n� s�a-1e of t1�e
e�perts ��lio can t,ive some �;►ai.del in�s as to 1ion� t'�is l �lie s'lnizld be used
riere , and certainly get their in���est, be��ause I thi.nk �1rE.' al ] reco�nize
tt�e compl_exity oi' tlris problem, and again , 1 say, I d�n' t feel i_t ���o��ld
be fair for '+�r. Ilork to be ��erT�;itted to �?ut in a sizeahl_e i.nvestrient of
tt�is type and t}zen thi.i�k tl�at �+�P. COII� C� lir;it '�im financia] retr�rn to a
de�ree t}zat �v��lld be considera��]y clifferent tlian t?ie oth�r r��arinas dotivn
tl�e line . It seems to me t;hat t{,e,y've got to be i<ept on a f�.i.r h�si s ,
So if lie r�ut in that bu � ldin�;, I ttiinlc regardless nf li���� m�nv �ve set ��t
t'�is point , it �s�i.tld be a si.rip] e rnatter to �� t a c��,rt t� s�,y, �,,�e11 y��� ' re
just as C���1ClO1.18 as yoi:i can be--�tirhat ' s ~vrong �4ith vou? And , in f.act ,
I cfori ' t t}�inli I , in good conscience cot�ld vote for ��err�ittin� ? im to pizt
ul► a ��q0,000 building, and sa,y otz c�n pizt �nly 6'� ���et boat slins in
ttlere , and tl�at ' s al] .
Searles : T''ell. , lvh�t t��ould yoia t}�ink of approving it ;�itt� a t�xai.ldiri� t�l�t
1401(l(� be com���erisurate �vitYi stc?ri.ri� 64 i�oats asi�ore°'
i�'r�,nzel : �''el l , the onlw t}�i_n� th��t I tl�ink fr�m �� pr�etic�l_l si.cle , ,yon
coiald ;just build 3�10 of tlie ��x�i7dino y�u plan to b�aild at th� first
sta�e , ancl I think, here a�ain , it ' s not really tieating ti;e �tiit��ation
propertly, t�ecai�se tie ' s hot a niee st�ot of land from �i. corr�r.►erci.�.l v�ntur�e
standpoint , and there are vested ri.�hts that Ite l�as , certr�inl,y, t� i.atilize
it , so. . . . .al ] t}�ose factors Itave to he protected and consic3er�ci, �nd I
tl��ink he tias to iiave t�ie sa.me cor�sideration ri�ht do���n tlle 1.ir�e . I thinli
my o�ly stand is t1��at bec�ause of t��le problem �ri th t1�ie lali� , t���s�t i fi�,�e ��old
tYae l inc at tliis point , and ri�;ht, or wrong, ��re may l:i�aVP, been «Trong in the
past. I rnean, certainl`� tl�e division bet�veen Gay] e ' s ��nd tlle �Torth S';ore
?.iarina is not , or the Plorth Star ;1larina , is not necess�ril ,y t}ae �>ro�►��r
eqt.�ity ri�lit a,t this point. I tl�iinl� �i'1t11 t'�e past histor,y, it ' s nretty
difficult , �rlien rve do not �iave tl:�e re�,7. soliil facts , and �s�leen tl�e e- nerts
will not l�e able to ahree , to try and comF •u�� �vit'� an �nsw�r .�t t':iG �oint ,
and ho��ef'ully, by say, a ,yE�ar from no�v, •n�the ne�r o}�era.ti �ns �;oi.ng i.nto
focus �vitli tl�e specific pur��ose anc� specific plan, ;r.nd ti�;itli the �s;o��] e
�i�iko are ]�non�led�eable in this field , ���ill c�me ��lt svit�: ��ri� �Y�zidelines ,
ttien �4e 1�i. 11 ha,ve a r�asis t;}�at «�i71 be eq�ai.ta.ble and f�.ir to all of t}�ean
along t}�e lirie . T}iat ' s re�.Jl,y my onl.y point--th.at `1�e sL�ould not }�ave a
bi;iilding of tliis ty;,e put u�� or started, 1�ecau��e tt�e i.mp.lied fact;or is
tl�ei�e , ,��nd I t�iinlc that tlaerF ' s no ;etti:�� a�vay from tl�at.
Searles : Snunds reasonat�le to �Tie , t�asica7.ly,
F'ranzel : And I certainly c�on ' t feel. that t��e }:ave tlle ri�;}�t, nor s��n��1.d
•>.e be discririinatory abai nst �.n,y o�vner da���n the ' ine at a] 1 , ',;ut I think
� t}uis is a cas� �,°here the ��ublic �velta�re is at st�ke here , �lnd t;}��refore
�#y Ta�e 3 - Page 6
l'or}c 11pp1 ieati �n
Speci�l :tieeting of tYae Villa=��e Council , �.iarch 31 , 1�69 Pa�e �
tl�i.s s4�oilld llc'lVP, a j�rime consider�tion ovF�r <lnd al��vr> t' < �;e n1;l�eT' f��etors ,
and �ve 11ave to start ���here �ve are tod�.,y.
Sea,rles : As far as t1�e b�,ilcl� ng is concerned , Pi.ci1 , I r:�i�;t�t sa,y tl��txre are
other bt�ildin�s ?.��ve been j�iat u}�, like :�`ortl� St�r' s ���.zt �ne t�p, ��nd not
for t1�►at ��ur3-�ose at al.l , but i t �cas a sal_es �.nd service j�oi.nt , �nd ��s a
sales s��ace . . . . .��ll 1 ' r� sayin�; , ��-�is desir� to ��uiJd a 1»zi7di.n� in
tl►e l�oat l�lssir�ess there is not l,�in� �'arestalleci , it ' s t;lie increase i.n
voliir:►e usa�e of boats on tt�e �caters nea,rb3T, ��itlier acteaal �r i^�i�l.ied , r�ot
i i�� creation of a stora�e j�oi_nt In otlier ����orcls , ,yol� ' r� r�ot sa��i n� tr���t "ke
can ' t bui] d a ���ii�ing t}i�4`,�^;�if he l��s a J�?�nson f.rane2�ise , and se71 �
Jot�ris�n �aotors and t�oats , �-ou ' re certairil.y riot srz�,ring tl��t tae cn��].c3n ' t
use a ne���• b�aildin� i'or tYiat Z7ur��os�s.
ieiayor: If I�e ,j�ast ��t�t it in �E'or t�����t pur��ose . . .
Searles : YF�ati, �� is this t;l�re rinf�t e:;�lana.tion?
Franzel : T"el l , I honestl_,y thiri�;: ;�;��at I 'm saying ��ere i � tl�at I �rni�ld f�el
in li.z;l�t of the prot�].em in kfc�rs� , tliat s�r�e re�l °��id�lir►{:s t2�at c��n ni:�i�le
«hat should be done in here , b�cra.i.�se I do l�elieve , ���it(�in th� cn�lfines �f
tliat ba�� tt�ere ��ie some �ositive ] ir:�its , tio1�- .ii��t �.�;�l�at lilce C;a,y).e is �nin�
to apparently ]iave a �,00d-sized operation, a.nd of co��rse , �l �rood-sized
bt.iilding. `'�ell rioe��, depending nn i��hat gocs into t�aa.t si.tc�: in hfarf , it ' s
quite obvioi�s ttrat if �tie ���anted t� }i�ive fi.ft�.r c�f t±xe n�;n� �•�- of ianc3 a.r�� nd
ther•e �fut in a,n operation c�r.ij�arable to tlais oi1�� , it i1���i�ld k�e '�o�,eless .
Ttle +�iiest� on is , �v)�ere is tt»t poi nt reacl�ed, Is on� t�� � : n,y? Are ti;r�>e
oi�t of l ine`� 1`�re ten �tlt of 7 i��e , �r r�l���t ?�r�ve ,y�u? :1nd ti,i.s i � ^�t;v I
f�-e1. tY�at �ve 11P,E'C� some hasic ;uidelii�e� , �e�caiise that ba,y is certaiall.y
cro«Tcled at tV�is �>oint , and tEsat does not cont�i.n, in f�et , i_t ' s m�t one
fair-sized l�tii].ding, and sev�ral sr�tall. ocaes in CTa�;le ' s oneration . and
_
tlder� no buil.dinms �n tl:�e ��orl� oper�lti.on. I dnn ' t in any �<�ay r�e,-,n tn �1�
discrin�:inatory ��,;ainst t��e Iiork� opera.tion, �vr��n thou�►� i.t :�i�ht seer���,
�vell , my gosh, you ' re denying me r1iy righl;s in !iern . I t��inl; �v�3��t i 'rra
�a,y:int; is , tliat I tliink that i.n terms of �7i?bl ic i.nter�st, tl��^re is
a time �v}�en, from the ovr:,ral]. stand��oi.nt , tire s':oi�l.d ste� hac�r and �Ft
sone ��ositive l:no�vled�eable infor�-�ation tn malce ����ine decisions .
�i.it,terf:i.e�d : I �cot�ld l: ke to as� a ��t�estion, �'"�en i_s ti�i.s Ca«ncil �roing
1;o co::ie u1, «�itt� so���e posi.tive r�<et}�oc�s of aetting t}�e hn��ts nt.tt af i;t�e lalce?
Hott� can tl�e o��;ners dr� :�or~tet���ing ��k���ut it, tha.t ' s , . . .
Searles : In the fin�zl analysi� , I_,oren, I si���po�e �. one C�r one -,�i.t'�dra�e�al
from the lal:e , 1��llere yola a.p�rove one dry, and you r���rnove nne �:�et , ancl that
eventual ]y �;E�ts t;iem out of the l�al:e , �3oesn.' t it?
13i.�tterfiel.d : Tlie only c�uestion is . t':i s is �n� �f t'�e �#��� �, a,jor sources
of ��ollt�tion, tt7e E�o�ts in the lalce , �nd a ��ositivF posi.ti�n �t1o»1�1 be
tal�en ou s�lvitlg the s;�,a,�^ , r,�r,tter �r ��rrn ��,y tl�ae Cr??.ncil , to �et these
out �1' tl�e lal:e .
Fr�:�nzel : ,-el ] , I certainl�- t�li.n�- t?,i�, is sn;�nc' , I:�r�- n, a.nd I �n, ,,,lr,teJ.,y
�.hree �w�ith tliat , biit I tliinl�;, as so,•ie of t4;e ot?�er cities , l :ikr �!inn�a.po] is ,
for example , ttie�- have so ma.ny xzloorin�s of l��oats that you c� n �i�t on L�ke
C��l}ioun, ��.nci tliat ' s it, and �-�t:i c�+n ' t ;�iit any m�re on, ��eE•iocl . ,+1nd nther
lai.es , and I 've seen the rest�lts of. ;;liere t��e,y '��zv� �neci:fi.cr�) ly ����d to
]_i�:�i.t tlie si�e of tl�e ��oats , s�.nc1 t;�e n�im,�er of l�o��ts tli�t can �c� on tt,e
lal:e , and t!�at ' s it, and I 'm stare t��at 1lic�netnilka is ;oin� to cn-°�� to tl�.�t .
?''rietlier ���e lilce it or noi; , I ����an , tYter� ' s a lir.tit as t�� hot�� !��a,n�� hoats ,yoia
can izse on the lake . I rnc�a.n, 1 'm s�are if :;�� ;e��od�.� ta.l.lcs �z?°o�;�t hi�ttin� �!�,���
#�j Tap e 3 - Page ,7
I`o7'{; �1;�?�] i c�.tion
-Special T.teetinh of ti�e Vil l� ;e Co��ncil , :«arc'� �'31 , 1�3�� P�r�e �
boats on Lake P�tinnetonlia, it �voifld be llo�el.{:;ss for anybody t� ias� it .
f:ork--from audience : Iio��- can yor� reconcile a cit,y—n1;�n�d l�lre to a ��ri.v�tr�l,y—
o�rned lal.e? There is no X>ri�Tate lakes'�ore on I.�ake ('���]lF���n, �'c��� t�.?�,-
about r�ot t�ei��� capricious , and you ��.re hein=�; capri.ci.oa.is ,
Franzel : I�m s�L;,�ing t}�is . I don ' t tP�ink that �;°:� out here--n�e dnn ' t o�<n
t��e l.�,l,:e , t±�is is not a ��rivate 1ake . T}�e ].��lcF� is ,�ub " ic nro��rty, .�nd
I 'rn sa�,�i rig tliat I thinlc «e Yiave a sacred obl.i�ation t� m�.lce s��re th�t t`Ei s
��ial�lic prorerty is la5ed lvitliin reoison. �'1nd t� t'�is e°<tent, I 1;1?i: 1. �:��e r��ve
a seriot�� ot�lig�tion to ) isten to �L�tlat tl3ese e�-:perts a.r�* tc*] l.in� us . I 'm
aure tl�at none of us tivill_ ciisa�ree �a�itli the fa.et tt1�,t ,�e 've got lalce
ollution roblems llere . "'e ' ve ot red al�ae Iias ust a e�red on the
P P � i, J P P -
lal:e i'or tiie first ti.me, and fror� t}le e���aerts on t}ais , tl�is is an
extrerriely serious sign. Anci I 'm not s�,yinh i.t ' s tk�e �cay t� eli.n�inf�te
r��arij�as , t}�ere are i?�any other f�,ctors in Iic>re , but it ' s a ��oint c�f cot�—
sic3eration . T t;3ir�k that unless «�e ta.lce a tota.l vi�>!s� �f t�ai.s , ��rF� � �i ].1. not
t�e able to c�rne to a re�a.sonable decision.
'TaSror: The nioti�n }i��s been ���ithdra,�:n fraz2 ].acl:: of � secnnd , Dn yo�,
l�ave �.notlzer r:aoti on?
Frarizel : !�'ell , I ' 11 r��ove tliat tr�e �etivit�� in :�:tax�vel.l P,ay ��e li��a.ted to
�{�r�at �<<�as tl�ere last yc.�ar, based on tYze m:�ny f��ets of t?�e polli.ition ��nd
coribestion prot�lerris , ��.nc� otl�er fa.cts related liere toni.�lat,
�Ia,yor: 1)o�s tliis t�.}ie irito consider�tion the v�ri.ance nn t)ie ler����t�a of
the docl:s`?
Franzel : :1nd t:ten, certai.r�l�r t� per��.it tlie v�.riances tt;f�.t Y1a,v�� Y.aFen
covered , based ori tl�e Yiardship co:�sic3eratian.
Stubbs : ' '}iat variances are you referrin� to`?
Searles : Sic:lelot setrack, ��nd over��11 len�t)i.. T?.ose ar�> tl�e t�.�o ��rinci��.l
varialices .
1�r'}Eitetlead : Clarify in tl�e� r,;�otion ���fieti:�r y�ou ai�E� cleal � n�x �,���itla ta�e naclza�e
tliat is before you , or �� 4,��ecific ,���rt of that {�<�c1.���e . `I'li�rr ' s t;E�en � o�e
ta]I� t�efore ,y��: r �r�otion on i�T}:ether �=ou rc�l:,te to t?d� � -1�olc� prc�s� ntation,
�s�);icl� apparentl.y, Yoi� r-n�,n�ied lilie yo�i 1•e-e ;�e .
t�'rarizel : '`-'ell , y: s , I <<�as rea] ).y anc�rzclinc; tlle ?'nri<; ' s a °1�1i_c��.ti�n, the
n'orth Star �rtarina, anct �"fa.y].e ' s ;+tarana. ' `r 've �.lr���uy eovered CT��r�l � ' S .
and '�ortii �tar. . . .
'''hitellead : I m�,an tl�ie pacl�,�,�e sL�b�•�i tteci b,y `�.(r, I��ork.
Franzel : �`'el.l , Yie �.E��uld be ]. ir�ited to the t�oat s]. i��s ttlat •.�ere �ranted
last year, and no building per�ni.t . No���, I l�:no��� the t�,v� arf� �ied tn�;ether
at tl.is point.
Searles ; '.''ot.zld yoi,� consi der an ��mendment to �d�hat yoi� ,ju�t s�idY s�;ti�i ng
no buildi.n� per�it �.���i t}� the purpose of st,oring Y�oats i n dry stora�e ,
because t��is is 1;Yle �7�.ar�,ose that I t}iink rel �ta: s to t}ie }�i�blic i nterF��;t ,
and i.t ' s not for, it i��o��ld not �;e true if t9�is ��ler � a salc�s poi.nt, ii' i.t
��•ere an o�atboard servicin� center, if they �,•ere s�llin� c��s?�i.ons , enni;�asses ,
you ]cno���, any of t��e t}iin�:�.s t11at ar•e norr.�a) ]y sold in � marina, I don ' t
���� Tape 3 — Page 8
"����<- �'ln���lic�tion
Special Jteetirig of tlie Vi. 11a�e Council , i�i��,rch :;1 , 1969 P:�f� ln
believe tllat �ve �vant to be in a ;�osition of saying th<�.t a�pl ication to
build a t►iiilclin� in a cor��mercial zone is denied ,just i'or �.11 �nr;��ses .
It ' s related to t�e public interest of stori.ng boats .
h1�.yor: YOli ' re sa,yin:, t`;at t?ie 1�ui.ldin� ;-l�oi��d 2�� � llo:�:ed i f it ' s ased as
a salesroom. . .
Se�3r�s : I ' ri ,j�.ist sa,yi.ng it ' s cieriied , t1�at tl�e h��ildin� perr�+it a:� �lic��tion
Y�e denied for the ��urpose of storin� 1�oats . Tlii s �4�o�:ld b� r�ngistent
���i th� ��rl�Y�a.t yo�a ' re sayinb.
Fr�nzel : Tiie on]y factor in ttierr_� , f>ol� , T ' �� not at all s�ire tha,t a
rr�arir►a opel�ation arid a �>otential. that �,:•nr�] d l,��ve to ��� ��e?,i.nci it i.n orcier
to, �t�e say, even ►r�al.e i1; }>ay, i t �:vo��l d l�e openi r:� t}�e door in a very
c3i.ffict�lt «�ay at tfiis poirit, ancl t1�at ���e recohtiize there is s�acl� a
��roblem tl►er•e , t}ia.t to defer ��.ction �intil lo�ic�.] intor^i�tion is av�.il��b]_e .
�3ecause I tliink it ca�ild be th��,t , for e�ample , t!;e sti�dies *�a�� s}�o�ti• t��at
act��al ly there is �ti�a,y too large �,n area of t�arina activi ty� t?�ere , s�r,d
i f tti�t ca��ie up on there , �Ypen sc,i;ietiiing �:-��ild ]�ave to ��e rec:ii,ced at that
�oint , if �-ou �;rere hoi ng to tol lo:: ;�i.t� it . .�1nd to ts i � e,�tent , it ��ot��ers
me v�:�ry m��c}i to perrnit a m�,n to bz�ild �..it?3 the o' vioi,�s ir�p] iec:i �ise , ?�ecause
tie certainly coulci not t�e cleni��d it at t}���t ;�oint . :'lnc� tl�en, i f tt�e
study s��o�cs t}aat �,�e can ma}�e c�������rable and comn�2tiy�] e e�se , t��en fine ,
ttjen �o ri�ht a}iead ��.�ith it; , and cert�.inly t'�e ��a.n s►�nlr.lcl l�r�v� every
op�ort��nity to utilize �1-��at '�� I�as .
Searles : 11l l ri��tat , I ' ll seeond yoi�r ��aoti on a.s ��oi.� stated i t .
'tlayor: It [�as been �oved and seconded . `;o���, ���ur c.?i.scussion ,
13utterl'iel.d : T}ie motion is ,just . . .
Searles : A coritin�itation of t',�e dock pc�rr.�it oi l �<;t yc�ar, .�nc� a. r!r?niz].
o:f' i,tie perrnit , err� the request to bi,�ild a building. T=�e ttiro cii.ff�rent
actions , real ly--one i s tl�e l i ���nsing �f a dock ; t�!e otl�er i.s a !�iai).ding
perrii t , Y�ut �e t�<�ve l inked tl�ern tor;etl�er, anci T 'm real ?y addre �si_n;� vni�,
i�Iarc , at�< iit ti�e com��li c<�ti on of t�;at , tiltat ' s all . It ' s co�T��pJ i.cated.
�"i.ite}�cad : Rig}�t . T'�i.s i.s t°Ee qtiestion t!ia.t I ' ��e �;}i�t tn ,yoi�, antl ev< ry—
E�odg lias h<�d an e;�trf,mel,y clifficiilt ti_rie unlir�lcing tr�e�e t`^�o, and I tl�iink
Councilmr�n Frrinzel. ' s coinntents go t� tliat point , Tl�e� ��,�rve �resented it as
a pac}ia�e , and t�ere in your disct�,si�ns ynz� a.re !��vi n� di_f fic�{lt,y �`ivi ding
it , alttiot��h certainl,y, fro�:� a le;�al 7oi_nt of vi� �ti�, t';i5 one - etion �n
one package ��;�t�ld have t�,c� se�ar��te facts . To s; •�.rit �, r�arina 1 i eFnse
a�:���7 icati on ���i.tl�► tili ��vater slips , <�nd to d�ny � �}�i��i_l.c'�in,� r�err�iit �.�r�rier
t.sose cariditions . T is isn ' t to s�y that tl��at ��;ill be t}�e F�nc� of it .
S�arles : �''e11 , t}�e fact that t��.e�.,�' ie ) i���I;ed torYet�=er a1 =���st forces i�s
to act �;o;;et:;er, even tllot��(:. . , .
?7'1�itel�c��:�d : This is your e���e] tasion, ;zrld .FI,�a,re�,t7y ev.- r�•t,�c�y i s �, ��;��• .
you c:ori ' t �eal �,•.�i t!1 t�.er� ser,ar�tely. `
Stubbs : I trjink �r�e s?io�;ld r�ake it clearly i,ri�:lerst��d �:;�l�at c�izr a.ntFnt i � ,
��ny�yay, as fax as tite '�uildin�, ��nci t}�e i�se of t��e '�iiildi_ri�,
�"'t�itetiead : That ' s �.:�t�at 7 ' �� sayin^;, t?t�tt rigllt no«�, it is ���h�; � tted z.s
a p��cka�e and cle��,lt �:�itY► �Ls a ��ar,liage .
�, �#� Ta�e � - Pa�e 9
Ho. �, pnl ic� tion
Special �if�etin� of tYie Vi ll��,.�e C�i.inci 1_ , ='�iarcl� ► , ] �hg I'��n 1 1
Searl_es : It ' s rea.11y t•.;o di.fferei7t ��oi�lts , .,��t �,oin�; t��;et1�F-r ?a�,� t}�e
si��il: rity of use . From a lc�o��l st;-ind}joint , ;;'o�.� �h��.ve ��, docl: � icF?nc� ng
1�,��� and procediire . �r�u al.so }sa.ve a b��ildir:g ��erT�ait �rocecli�ip . ".iat t,�e
t�,�o are �.17 in t�ri_s one ��ro�osal . I dnn ' t t�aink i t ' s �.�nr�asnn.�� ��1 e t� ' ave
tiiem si;ned to��;�t��er, i_t t�uts them a7 l . . .
`�'�11tE,'�lE'.i�(j : � t: � S V:''.r.. difficiz�.t t;n �l,C�� � �S Cr'111:=;(? t;��E'�' .1Y'(' t?�];"t: �`tfl.`a iii1.Y'CP�.
t�ie Sclrle t}1111{r.
Searles : :1r•e 1•:�e �^��l, iri�T, a .,ista,i::c tr� �,�v{� rinc; ;�ct �n tl,en2 ��s � 1��c1.�}�-F?
"`]�itehe<�d : 1'ou ' re never r�al;i n� a r�i stake if you a.ct r�a��on�b]��, and i n
the �t�est r;���znner yoi� can.
Searles : T}lis is �:i��3t �4•e si t laE.�rc tr��i �?�; to do. . . . Oi �,y, tt,�.t �ns�>�ers
my tluesti.�n .
!i�iyc�r: Any furt}zer questi�ns?
�tubbss We can legally deny� the building permit, is that right?
' i..z�.tc�k�
Whitehead: I 'd say that you can react to this as a package , � you
can' t split it apart. In�plitting it apart you are capable of doing that.
The way it is submitted, that would have to be a separate question, but it
appears as though you oan't, because thewhole thing is tied up--it's not
a marina application without thestorage spaces,and that's part of it. But
you don't get the storage spaces until you have the building, and it creates
a big problem. But your question is a separate one. If. . . .
Mayors Any more commentsY If not, all those in favor of the motion say
aye. (ayes ) Contrary? (none)
Art Grosss Mr. Mayor, could I understand what the motion was that you
voted on? I don't think I heard it.
Searles : Well, the motion was to, and I seconded it, t��.0'"'see if I state
it correctly. the motion was to approve a dock license of 64 slips as was
approved the previous year, and to deny the linked building application
for the purposes of creating some dry slips , and that, in essence, is the
motion, if you'll excuse my�linguisti� failures, but that's as close as I
can come to it.
Art Grosss I, believe that our legal rights have been invaded, and therefore
we will s tart'`�`'proceedings as s oon as poss ible.
���= Mayors Let's go on with the next--Paul's Landing here.
�`��
,� ���� Stubbs s I move we grant him
r,,
�
Discussion of marina application of Paul ' s Landing 30 1/3 to 31�
Discussion of marina license application of Reed' s , Inc. 312 to end of tape
�- /O
• VILL�iGE 0 ORONO - `��� �r � J 'z � Tape 4 - Page 1 �
L � � , Hork Application
�
� � .
Special Meeting of the Village Council, March 31. 1969
Searles: It's been brought to my attention about the North Shore Marina,
Mr. Hork's operation, and our motion there. I may have mistated it, and
I want to clarify it now, while we 're still in session here. As you stated
it, Dick, it was ���i� to hold in abeyance for a year, and therefore
deny these incPes�es for a year� and as he asked me to restate it, I �ust
said it was to deny it,but your intention was to hold in abeyance for a year,
taR't this right?
Franzel: That�s right.
Stubbsa And that wasn't stated in the motion.
Searles: Well, now this was the intention, and this was the way he put
it in the first place, and this is the way I would like to have it under-
stood, because this is the whole reasoning for the action, was to gain a
year.
(Pause in meeting while Council listens to portion of tape pertaining to
above motion. )
Franzel: This is basica�lly what I had in mind to cover in here. I 've got
a couple of sentences written here.
Whitehead: Th�action was taken, and there was a lot of . . . .
I
Franzels �es, but the intent, I think was clearly put. But let me give
what I have written down here. ror the above reasons , I mean after I 'd
gone over these other items � and the fact that virtually all the experts
agree� that Lake Minnetoni¢a is in serious trauble, and that these experts
also agree that because of the complexity of this problem, more basic
information is neceasary bef ore they can offer sound recommendations. In
light of this overwhelming information, and thebprotection of public welfare ,
and this includes lake residences , as well as lake useas � I move that Orono
defer all action on marina expa.nsion f or one year, so that a sound and
logical decision may be based on factual information.
Whitehead: That's what you proposed originally. That was a long time
ago. I 'm talking about action specifically. . . . .
Franzel: Well, okay� all right, now. If this is what I meant here, can't
we correct it legally so that (I open it up here for the rest of the group
here ) if I didn't say that completely here, if this is what logically should
be said here in support of the discussiorr>we had here.
Searless You did say this in support of it earlier, and it is linked in
my mind--it wasn't linked in time. It was not �uxtaposed to the motion,
that's the big problem. It's way back.
Whiteheads We pulled out the formal language of the motion. The formal
` language of the motion was to limit the number of boat slips to last year's `�.�
and no building permit. And that was the response to that package. It's \
not very quotable, but that's what the specific words were that I got off j
that tape. �
Searles: Would it be better f or us to rescind that motion and pass a new
one that is better phrased?
Whitehead: I don' t think there would be any reason to rescind, but I cer=
tainly think you could clarify it with a statement. Sure could� you could
. ��iv Tape 4 �
Page 2
pass another one mf you wanted to.
�gsa�gsz
Franzel: So that we're properly covered, and I would want to say� I mean
is this different than any gathered from what my intent was, let me put
it that way. Loren, would this agree with what you thought, . . . .
Butterfielde Well, what you read there isn' t what we've done. We have
allowed them certa.in expansion here.
Searles: No, what expansion . . . .
Butterfield: Well, at Aeed's there's some expansion on the basis of past
history, so that . . .
Searless Well, Loren, your amendment passed to reduce it to 38.
Butterfield: I know it, but, I mean� we can't use that•
Mayor� It isn't an expa.nsion of the usage of the lake,it's an expansion
of that particular organization.
FrSnzel: Reed's has been using it in the pa.st.
Butterfield: I know, . . .
Searles: There's no expansion at that site, Loren.
Stubbss I understood that this was no expansion of the use of that land.
�������
Searless Right, it's a very consePvative ,�►��� of what the past usage
was, it's a conservative one, yes.
Butterfield: You're going to have to explain this to the public, then
because they're going to see that they had 20 last year and they're getting
38 this year� and this is no ezpa.nsion. . .
Franzel: Maybe we could ask, certainly, the paper to do this , to say that
the additional boats that Reed's is using was formerly used by Jonas Marina
Searleso It was based on the history of the land use� not on the Reed's�
Inc. , because neither Aeed's nor Lehtinen were there last, or two years ago .
Butterfield: If this information would be available, then it would look
like it was a reasonable. . . .
Searles: Well, the information was available to us,
Butterfield: Yes, but not to the public
Searless Well, there�s our pi�eline to the public, ri�ht there. �ure �.•
�00�1 ?.�o'•=-iy�� ,>i;�Ni�i�e. Loren, seriously, the land use history �jtere
is consistent.
Butterfieldi I agree with you, but when youbmake the statement here that
it's not an incPease, well we got a to put it in language �n the basis of
past. . . . .
�����' Tape 4 �.>,
• Page 3 �'`
Whitehead: Mr. Mayor, there apparently is a great deal of confusion, to
get off of Fieed's , and go ba.ck to Hork. There is a great deal of confusion
over the exact wor�dng, the exact intent pertaining to the package that was
presented by Hork, not in relation to your action on Maxwell Ba.y. There is
that confusion as to what action was taken as regards to the pac�&.ge that was
presented by Hork. The Council certainly can entertain a motion that will
rephrase and proper�.y express the intent of the Council, as to what that
motion was.
Searles: Why don't we
Whitehead: I don't think there's any confusion at all on the intent of the
Council, but I think that that intent ought to be succinctly verba.lized, and
I think that if this is the feeling of the Council that you can do this in
a motion to restate the origina.l motion.
Searlesc I suggest that you write down a motion for and then read it,
instead of . . . .
Franzel: Well, the part that I read here, that I have got written down,
does that express. . .
Searles: It expresses it about Maxwell Ba.y, not Hork? Let's be specgfic
about Hork.
Whitehead: The problems of Maxwell Bay you can ta.lk about all night� and
that's important, because those facts about Maxwell Bayia formed the basis
for the Council's action with regard to the Hork package, but you're taking
action not on Maxwell Bay, but on Hork's package.
Franzela alould this be in line? You know what the intent is , and to mix a
little legal ? , could you sketch upbwhat would be a proper motion?
I 'i[ anly looking at this to get the legality of this th�ing covered properly
Whiteheads It's a matter of fact that you have a request for a marina � �� x
application, and a building permit, which we have sta.ted as � , �here
was a motion taken in responding to that package. you hav� limited the
number of boa.t slips to 64, which is what he had last year, and to �ake
no action, or to defer action on the building permit f or one year.
Searless This is the intent, really, this expansion, but we said deny.
Franzels Well, defer is specifically what I meant in here.
Whiteheads I tried to pick that language off the tape, and that seems to be
in essence the motion that was made in response to the Hork package. Now if
that•s clear, I think we're okay. If there is any clarif ication, I think it
should be ma.de now, and I don't mean--you don't have to go over all the facts
in the conversation a.bout Maxwell Bay, this was all s�a discussed very
thoroughly and forms the basis for the Council's action. The only thing
I 'r� saying is that you want to be clear. . . .
Franzel: 81ght, this is specifically what I want to accomplish here.
Searlesa Well, you think it's clear now, so that in the writing of the
minutes of this meeting it can be stated that his application for ezpanded,
storage of boats ashore and in the lake was deferred for a year?
�c�-•;'.7�`G -----�--
Whiteheads I think that �� be clarified.
..���#�o Tape 4
, . Page 4 f
��
Searles: Right
Whitehead: If that, in fact� was the intent.
Searles: If that, in fact, was the intention.
Franzel= I really included the building.
Searles: Building ashore and afloat, or in the waters. Because this is
the whole point to gain a year, isn't it.
Whiteheads It's made difficult by the fact that this package that was
presented is a package. It's your reaction to the whole total. and the
motion as I understand it, was you re�ect the proposal with the exception
that you allowed him to keep the 64 slips that he had last year.
Searlesa Right
Stubbs : Aren't we in a stronger position to deny it � a package, than. . .
Searlesa That�s what we did. The question is to defer it for one year,
Whitehead: The whole pmint is to defer, not deny
Franzels All right, that is the whole point of / , to defer and
deny, isn't it?
Everyone talking
Searles: Well, this is the intent, now let'� put it ba.ck this way. Since
I was the seconder, my intention is to defer for a year on this � and to
approve the 64bof last year. I will reconsider it last year if they want
to put it back in� or if we want to keep it on the table for a year. I 'l1
reconsider it in the light of what we know a year from now, and this is my
intention. Now, how do we do this so that it's sta.ted properly.
Whitehead: You've stated it.
Searles: Now, my statement may not agree with the intention of the rest. . .
Al1 right, I would say that that intention to defer for one year his
expansion. . .
Mayors you going to add this to the minutes� now?
Searless I 'm �ust saying, this is as an amendment to our past motion, and
I would so move to amend the mistated� or appa.rently mistated motion, that
my intention was to defer his application f or one year to gain the knowledge
that should be available one year from today that is not available today in
this area, and to approve the 64 slips he had last year. Now, that is a
motion to amend and to clarify.
Stubbss T 'd second that, if you're looking for one.
Searles: Right, I am looking, right.
Nayora It's been moved and seconded--are there any questions? You
heard the motion--all in favor (ayes ) contrary? (none )
Searlesc Wait� did everybody approve it? Did everybody vote approval on the
amendment? I think I would like that roll call. Let's get that part of it
straight on there.
• �Z�'-��� Tape 4
, . page 5 �'
�
Searless In fact, there was a question that somebody raised on the first
one, too, and I think for the record it should be clarified, but why don' t
we �a.ke a roll call. . . .
Whiteheads What I want to say is that the language of the first motion
was to limit the boat slips to last year, and no building permit. There
was talk about defer and deny, but the actual lanquage of the motian was
no building permit, and no reference to defer`'��Bd'�deny� if that is importa.nt.
This motion clarified specifically. . . .
Searless My intention is to defer
Butterfield: maybe we could come up with a little different language here
still on a chance that you add building permit as applied for.
Searles: I would accept that, yes. It's the only building permit that we 're
acting on
Butterfield: I know, but not defer any building permit, but this
4�i����e.�sThat's all we can act on, because that's all that's here
Whiteheads (something about f ormal motion)
Searles: Just as well add it to this one here , to clarify that? , . .
This is all right with me, I 'll add the phrase �t" building permit as
applied for���� to that past motion, and I would so move that that be
added.
Mayor: Second on that.
Stubbsa Second.
Mayors Moved and seconded. All those in favor say aye (ayes ) Contrary? (NONE)
S tubbss I think that's an excellent point. It seems like he could 3ust
han� us on this one� if we didn't have this in there. . .
Searles: Well, there 's a lot of legal nitpick that goes on, and thishas
nothing to do with the intentions.
Stubbs : �'Pe sho��ld have it clearly understand that we aren' t going to give
him a building to use for boats .
Someone : You' re merely deferring, you ' re not doing anything else .
Searles : This is the intention anyway, as far as I 'm concerned.
(Reporter comes forward to ask for roll call votes on motions)
More discussion on motions (who voted for what and when)
� ���'� L;,�-� c���. ��`�L �-��> �
�.