HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-24-1969 Council Minutes-Portion pertaining to Marinas t -�-�--*� `f T a p e 1
� Page 1
i
REGULAIt ?�II�:E'I'ING UI� TIII�; VI1�I�AG�: C�'I'NCIL — YO�.TION }'l�'itTAI"�IIvrG TO ':;:AI�INAS
3-24-��9 ,
�
DIr. I3ert Gross , representing �;r, Iiork (Nort'i Sl�ore Drive :alarinaj :
I rnitilit say, for ttie record, tl�at it is our ?�osati.on th��t tlie �ill:���e
Coi�ncil li��s no discretion in «�hether or not to �rant tl�is building
permit. `�'e feel that �ve � re zoned properly and this is a b��i ]ding on
land here , �,�nd triat it com��liE�s �a�itl�► all the ordinances �nd t)1P, reg—
ulations , and n�e feel tliat it is not a raiscretion�r,y act ; l�ut �ve
certainly «�ant to cooperate ivith the Vi.] lage ��nd provide any inform�,—
tion we can,
{6']iitehead : l�rom a legal point of view, 13ert , you lcno�v, it ' s not
zan��x� unheard of tliat people }1�ve gone ahead and done �+,�l�at ' s tecl�nicrtlly
legal and t}►en claimed prejudice l;ecause tt�ey �rere allo���c�d tn �o �hra.d
��nd i,tien it revf�rts to the Council , so �:�e �vere ,just tr,yin,� to avo�d
tYiat . tliis time .
Gross : l4'e certainly�lve 've I:ad en�noh litigations , Znd I t':�inl: the
Council has too, flnd ti��e certainly �tiant to avoid tl�iat .
Tl�e preseat plan ( cal ls ICaye �r'esterl�ind to e�ttie u;� ��nci ,j�i n ►�i1=i) ,
IIe probably lcnon�s more about tl,is than I do. Tlae present plan is to
provide space for 170 more boats in t'ris ruildin�, ��nd basically n�e
Ila.ve ��lans si�o���ing lio�v tl�is building �vi1 l be set up, tYie boa.t� ���ill be c�- �`� °�
.�r t�ti�o f 10 o r s . �
;",'esterlclnd : T'�ey «�ill be on t�vo floors . Tliere �vill l�e ��acks act�ia] ly
tr�at will �o the full hei�ht in all of t1�as area. Speed racic.s , a.nd
these tao��ts �tiill be brouhlit in by tor����e l i.ft and �ut i nto the racks
and taken out and ��ut into the lal.e . The rr�st of t}te �reas �,re for
re;�ai.r of crtiisors , repair of inbo��.r�—outbo�rds , re�air of out!�oard
pnotors , toilet Cacilities to serve tl�e t�ubli_c and on the u �per floor
tlie s.�les facil.ities , ;+arts and accessories , closing offices , ca��t'ei�nce
rooM, and t}�is is trie u,�per level af tlie racl: l�o�t ren��ir area,
Gross : I mi�l►t say, t;;is Yias been l�efore t,�e }'lanning Commissi�n, �=.�?�o
lool�ed at t',is and unani.rtiously aj���roved ttlese plans , and felt th�t t'2i�
i��as the best ans�zer to the marina sit�iati.on on tlie lake . It tl��n �rent
to t}ie �iinnesota Conservation Co.nr�i:��i.on tivho ian�Lnitnously ��.;}proved triese
pl.ans , and felt tliat tfiis dv��.s a lrzodel set�.�p for marinas , �''e a7.s� ��•ent
to the i�linneY�aha Creek !'';,tershed Co�r.lission, �G�IZo l�as 1;o pass oti t!<is ,
arid ttiey passed on tliese pJans . Tlie tluildingA . .
��'hitehead : Excuse me , I'ert , tt��ey c3idn ' t pass on the �lans--t'.:ey passed
o�} the dredging. It ' s not �vitt�in their jizrisdic�ion to pass on tl�e pl�lns ,
Gross : IZight , tli�.t ' s true . Tl�ey ��assed on tl►e dredging permit , �;lt!lnii�h
�vell , your r�a�tner �ti�as there , so I assiarne ,you ;ot the i'irst}�and �vord on
�r•hat they did, ancl true en�ug!� , t�iey dic.i issue a dredging �er��lit , so
tt►ere ' s been no problern �vith t is as �� fa.r as t�?e 1'lannin; Coc�imission ,
Ka,ye or I ��ill be glad to , try ancl ans�rer an}� ,uestions yoi� i�iig}�t liave
�zk�oizt tt�►ese setup. .
1layor i�oss : lloes t}�e Council h�ve any c�uesti �ns �n tl;is !�e�re,
' . Do you }iave anyti�i_ng �b���ut where the access £o the ] �.ke fror�
the bL�i ld i ng ivi 11 be?
Gross : Yes , P�ight . A 7.a�oon here 1;h<zt ' s :�] re�.dy eYisting, and tlaen t?►ey
�tiill take t�:is out here , and �ffirom t}�e t�acle of t1�e l�ui ldi n�
a�"�� T a e 1
3-24-69 - l�a�e 2 P
Page 2
to tlie lagoon th�:�re �:�i11 be a run�eay so tl�at t'ie '�o�3.ts can be l :lunetled,
sorie�vl�ere in bacl�: riere , and tliat ' s t}ie set�,i�} for �Tettirig t'�e y�or.ta into
tl��e lake .
Franzel : Your dredging tl►at y0U comtemplate on llc�re , you ��pparently are
doing some n�ore dredging }icre . :�re y�ii also ;�lanning to dred�e in tlie
niain part of the lake too?
l"�'esterlt.ind : �?'e �v�uld be squaring ol:xt the lr��aon proper and dredgi ng to
a depth of six feet along tl�e s1lorPline , and tl�en ��i] ling nlit from tl�ere .
I,'ranzel : 3Io�1� rnany yarcis �v«i.ild yo�:i ��lan on tal:in� �iit`?
`i'esterluncl: 2,O00, 3,000 yards ,
Stubbs : lIo�ti� cl�se c�n ,you come to tl�e neighbors �n that4 dred�i ng
permit?
!`'esterl��nd : '''e are ��rc:sent7y ��t �8z- feet from i,he re�irlcntirt] t�ro��erty
line .
Stubbs : "'ell , I ���as referri.n� ��Ca to t}ie dredgi.n� alone--' �n� cic?se c.lo
tiiey �;ive you a perrii.t to come� to the nei.�h�oring ? anc3s tio�t �re ad,jacent?
`"esterlt�nd : 1`�'itliin 18 feet , i�ot1� sides .
Grc?ss ; ','�'lien �ve �et into ttle docl� faci] iti�s can tki� �;�.�ter, t!:.lt ' s a l ittle
diTferent J�robleni than �re h�ive no�v, �:�ut I �;uess y�i.i' re ta�ing i.t �].J.
togetiier at once . !''e are going to be a].�rost J00 fF,et a«�3y from the
resi.dential sides , and �.:re tl�ink that tleat ' s ?�retty yood. It s►�ould
]ceep t}iings a�va,y from t4ie residen�es.� ,
!'�'esterlund : Tt�e al.d la,yout is in ��f�re . TYie present o] d ]ayout t' e
clocks are �5 feet from the residential property.
Cxross : So tl�is tivill k��inprov��'1�iover tl��E�:� e.��istin�.�avout . No��^ Air.
Iiork l�as applied for 75 slips f�r tlie �vater. No�v t]�is is the sax+le
n�.�mber as last year I�eca>>sc�lr�° had a li cense for F4 sl i �s . IIe !;ar.� 11
slips for }iis o�rn �rax���$g personal t�5e . I notice tkiat tti�e ordinance
lias b��n ctia,nbed ta i.rlr,lucle persnnal use sl ips , �3nc1 so he has requested
75 , 1r�:ir.4i is the total of sl.ips , both for rent �j.nd pers�nal , t!�at he
3►ad last year. �`'e ' re not �jslsing i'ar �n ielcr�*ase in the. , ,
Franzel : Do�s }ie feel tYiat tlie 11 slips �re definite7y �ers�r�al. �znd
�iave no relationship to tile t�i�siness?
Gross : Tl��it ' s ri�l�t, tti�t ' s rigl�t ,
Franzel : In other n�ords , t;e cloesn' t p��n �n �_�arlcing dis�lay l,oats or
liis comn.ercial activity �€�x��, i.t �o�oi.�ld 1�e piirely '�is o�,.•n nersar�al or
�rivate use .
Gross : 11nd t}�ose of some of his friends �vtiich Yze �i�oii] d n�t ehar�e rent
for. ( l.augliter) from cro�sd)
'�esterlund : I t�rink tl�is questi.on t}�r�t is ��roposed liere , t�i�se s7ips
in �iere �;��uld be f�r tlie use of bo��ts ti1�t are being r�ut i.nto t1�ie Zvater
from tlse builcling and talcen out and tI1P,Ii 1:��ou^rht hacl� in l,ere , anc3
tal�en fr�m tlie �v,�ter and �aut back in tl�e ����i]din�, or a Y�oat t?��;t i_s
broiagfit into tti� p�amping station to h�ve tlie selr:��e ��zmped out , or a
boat tliat is l� rought i.n for repairs . Th�se sl.i.ps a.rP not rent�.l slips .
3-24—Eg — I'a�e 3 2�#`f Ta�e 1
Page 3
Aiayor I�oss : Youg' re actl.�ally acidinb sli;�s tc� �•.=ll��t ynt.�r re��;lati �n ca.] led
for last year.
Gross : '''ell , ��le �iad 64 rental slips l.ast y��ar ��nd if t?�e Co��ncil �����nts
to l irnit it to 64 rental sl i�s t` is year, I siipt�ose �ve ' ] 1 {r� aJ on� �-�itli
that, k►ut i.n additi�c� to rE�ntal slips , yoti � re �ot to trorl; on some slips ,
or sor�e boa.ts in the �eater, and t!�is is the reason, I d�n ' t t�tinlc we
st,ould �et liung up on thes� eleven slips , �»rticizl�rly.
F'ranzel : I,ow r.iuch parl:ing sp�,ce �eoii] d yot,z ��e �rovidin� on tlle groi.ind
and tlien also on the roof?
!"esterlund : At present �ve liave I ti�ink £�� cars �n the ronf , �;nd tla��re ' s
72 slated �'or gr�und coverage , pl�.zs ov�rf] o�v parl:ing �n t�1e sides . T}iis
is a vc:ry 1<�rge pieee of ��ro��ert,y, �fz acres , So t}i re ' s p] Pnt�� �f room
f'or r�arking for plenty of cars .
Franzel : You say tliat on t!ie roof you are all��l�in� for RO cars`?
�''esterlund : 80 c��rs , correct;
�'ranze 1 : And tlien '72 on tlle groi�nd?
Gross : "'ell , tlicre ' s �2 in rnarked areas , but tt�cre is ovcrflo�v parl:ing,
that it iaould be on the premises , not on the street, �v'3ich l�ave to be
able to 1�andle another 150-200 cars if yo�:. had to, �t�it}i no trn�able , They
just �ren' t p�,rticularl,y marked .
Franzel : I �ee . `"nuld that , for ���ur X�asic 1».�siness , •-��}ierE� sr�uld you
plan to �_�ut tYze ; eople `;�'�o corie in to buy sor?�thin; from the r?a.rine
operation, ��.nd so on--�vould there be separate ���rl;in� for t}ier�?
11'esterlund : T11F,r�: � s room tor six c<,rs in fr�nt o� tlie huildi.ng,
I�'ranzel : I see ,
Gross : T}�e ot}iers wo<<ld have to �o Y�e?:i.n� tYie bi�ilding.
I�'ranzel : !''n�.�ld you pl�,n c�n permittirig people t� come in t.�itt� z ?aoat and
trailer and launch t}ie l�oat� in additiorl�r� to your other op�>ration here?
Gross : I honestly dori ' t l:no�v, I don' t ]:�;o�v �.�het}ier tki�i.t decision r�as
been made . T)Zere is a i�ublic launcl�ino dock abo��t a �°�ile �,�vay, or maybe
less , rnaybe a half mile an�ay, �vhere htindreds of 1:�oats ].a.i�nch t'i�riselves
every �i�eek, and T «�oi,alc� tl�ink that tliat ' s �rh��-e tl�ey i����;] d �o, rathE�r
tt�an out on t?ris facil.ity.
Franzel : So yoii i�asic�lly f� el t,liat yo>> >v��ild not 11<ive i.t ���!�n for
public la�anetiing.
�:'esterlund : No, it �����iild be ,,ri;;l�iril.,y f�r tY.ie �.ise of t is '���ts tl<<zt
are ke�t in dry dock �.nd i:�oats ttiat ��.re in t}��e water,
Gross : li'e feel that , and everybody so i'ar �vlio Yias looked at t}�e �lanlls
feel that some sort of an installation like tl�is is tvha.t it �Tia,y h��ve to
come to , and it ' s real.ly t;��e �nssti�c?r. T}�e overall pro,ject , t` aia���, rvi..11
prol�abl}� run aroi�nd a c�u�.rter of a mi] lion dollars , and certainl,y add
substantial amount to tlie ta�, rolls }iere .
`�#� Tape 1 T�pe�2
3-�4-6g Page 1i End Page 1
,\�n� Page 4
Franzel : �t`�'�he ter�s of sor.ie of tl�ie ��resent buildiil���s , <inc►. so on, i.n ,yoi.ir
r►lans , i��ould yo« anticipate any of. t}aose structure remaini.ng, and s�;nizld
tl�ere be any ] ivin� in t}iose structure�?
�"este��lund : Tt,e striactures �co�ild rem��in, Tl�e�- j�,�nt,ld t�e re.jnvenated for
tlie use of r�ight personnel irl�o t��ot�ld be si.ipervisine� tlie docl�s .
Franzel : I mean , ti,is �v�i�ld be tlieir ?iome or a.partment , r�s si�ch?
�`:'esterlund : Not re��lly, no. The personnel that �vo;:ild b� �ati] i.zin� the
facilities ;o��ld be only there in the sumr:ter, period, ,j�ist to mal.e ��.�re
ti�at somebody i.sn ' t tal:ing off �vit}� a ��o�t , vandali�ing �' boat, �r
�vl►en a boat is broi.ight in late at night .
Franzel : I3ut these wc>>ild l:�e living quarters?
�F'esterlund : For tlie summer, ,y�s .
P'ranzel : llo�r many people �����i�ld yoi� a.nticij� te yoi� ����i.zld h.ave , or ?io��
many quarters wo,�ld you h��ve , let ' s s�,y,
�"'esterlund : There «-oi�ld probabl,y Y�e t�vo or tt�ree r.ien there , and t!��t ' s it .
«e 've provided planting along the reside►�tial �?rea, too, .l.ombard,y po}��la,rs
t}iat �ro�hld be kept cl ipped at a six foot 11ei�11t so ti�a.t tl►ey' ] ] spre<��i .
End of first tape ( 10 � �in�.ites) ",Iissed sorrie disci_�ssion .��t-3m-�--�N �-L,���)
''�v�':�::�'iles anci servi.ce af sno���i�oUiles , not �, �et�.ip for sno�vn�ol�iling.
P'ranzel : So you �;�o��ld !�<�ve , ����itf� y�i,�r activi ty t��ere .
�'�esterlund : Service . ��alrs and servi_ce .
�Iayor Ross : Yoiz �rof�ld l���ve to�i��ve s�,��ebody 1 iving t'�^ r�:� ti�e vear aro�ind
tlien , and 3�ou said ,just tlie summer. .
ti''esterlund : No, ��ecause clr.aring tl,e sun�mer ti-oiz' re <<�atclsing t,�e bo�t doc)cs
to Tnal:e sure somebody isn ' t vand�.liza_ng tlie boats . Duri.n� t�te ��rinter it
�vou�d be an 8 tc� 5 operr�ti�n of s�les and re;�airing of sno�vriobi 1.��� , ��nd
also the repair shoi� on t17e cruisers �nd the inbo�r�—�i�tboards •ri. 11 be
runi►in� all �°.inter al so. Aiost of tliese t�oats 12.�ve to >>e repai red duri ng
t}ie «�i zt rnonttis , you can' t ��.et tlier.� in during t�1e summer r>>�nt}�s , tliPre
ju,t ��� eno��gh� faci) ities on t}�ie l.ake to l�aa.nd] e t!�em.
Franzel : Just one more ��tiestion in l�ere . In the ?�o�ts t?���t ��o�� park
on the lal�e , do ,you anticip��.te tllese to 1�e the 1<irge cri�i sers?
1','este �tind : Crt.aisers and lloiiseboats , yes .
i''ranzel : .�nd tl�en, the offsf�ore storahe �i�ot�ld be �l sr�»ller type
otitl�oard l�oats �nd so on.
`'�esterlund : U}� to a �0—foot , rigl�t .
�'`1�i t�head
3-21i—<9 — 1'age 5
� � Tape 2
Page 2
tfi;�itelzead : T}:ere I�ave been some allegations mac�e , anG a�r�sircrltl�= 5�1tie
facts discu:>secl at the ��lanning comniission that inclicates tliat there is
a problem of l�oat cor►gestion and of bo�t pol lizti on from a strt�.i n af
nutri.ents in the ��Ta�;er from l�oth po�vers in °Iax�ve7 ] I3a,y. �v'o�r, ,you kno�v,
T?ert , ttiat the prot�lE?rn ��ith_ _ _ is , and t}�i s i s one tl�i n� the
Council is resl;ing on. If you have any infor;�iation t11at ��ill clispIIQve
these a 1 {rations ,��th�t �vill provide some ascertz.inat�le St��.ndr�.rd , gi.ve
an '� i �re�'� to the C��ineil . . . (b�.elcgroi.ancl noise c:lro«ned him nt_it)
y�+'. �r,
Gross : I dnn ' t thinlc it ' s a probl.em :for tl�is C�i�ncil . I ttiiril� it ' s an
overa.il pro��ler! on 1,alce ",iinnetonlca.
/�lZ��'U,.�'L'��
.-�S.nz:r�: I3ert , a1; the 1linneh�.ha 1-'aters}►ed District �ieeting, t}1is very
fact �vas brolzght up, and «�e ���ere running into qi�ite a l�it of conv�rsation
re�ardi.n�= ti�is , and t}ien one of t}ie r:eml� rs 1�rougl2t ��p the ��oini; t11at
a l�alf i:�ile a���ay is a public l��nding tl�a.t c�ln dur:tp 1E to 5 tlz�i.asand baats
any �iven «�eek end.
Pranzel : IIolv "iany?
�''esterlund : �E to 5 thoi-sand .
Franzel : I ' m merely stat�g, «�ell ,you I:rlo�v the size of it ,yourse]f ,
you co�lldn ' t getw� to 5 t}iaiasand cars aro�ind there .
�ti�-�
s"esterlund : 14�rn merel,y s�ating �4;hat came � tliat meeting. Also,
tie stated t}zat if there �vere no marinas in the ba,y, there is notl�ing
that can restrict the passage of any boat on Lake lfinnetonka into tz�is
bay, and tl�eir prime concern �vas tlie lake pro��er, and n�t any �iven
bay. �1nd they felt the facility 1vit�i pumping station and everytl�ing
�vas the type of bizUlding that was needed.
,
ti!'hitehead: Tl�at may b��� but the terms of this Coi�nci7 ' s ��rablem� deal.ing
nTith the bay that is" ,'�}n'�Orono , �znd everybody recognizel�s theproblems
,
of the ba,y. T}ie question is one of t'ie tl�in�s ttie C�i�ncil h:�s to
deterr�ii.ne is the nature and extent of t'ie problem: if ti�ere is ane , andi��� �
1�iow great it is . ���'hat I �m asking is that if y(IU �VP. come tonight �4ith
any suggestionsr�•/� standa.rdsfor tl�ie Council , or any facts tY�at 1VpU� C1 slio�v
that in fact th�t bay is not congested as people say, or t}l�.t it ' s not
being po] luted bec�.use of t11e ;�ropellers di�{;in� i:�p the bottom sediment ,
Gross : li'ell , 1tlarc, �ve �vent through that before , last time around , and
at t}lat r�onnt it �ras determined that yo�� can ' t ��in ttie pol luti on of
I,al.e 1�illnetonka on these bo�ts . Sure , everybody sees a lot of }loats ,
but you can ' t keep boats off of Lake �.iirinetonl�a. No�v, t[ is i s not an
easy }>roblem, and I'�,J�t�o� enginE�er, and I don' t l�-no�v a.�catly wtay all of
the conditions that are po7lutin� the Jake , but the answer is not to
keep tlie t�oats off of the lake . :�Saybe 's thcre ' s s�rnet)�ing y�u can do
�vit}1 the boa.ts , you 've got a pretty co���prehensive set of regl�lati.ons
no�v, and �::}iat to do �rith refuse and everythi.ng, but frankly, t��e don ' t
1►ave any ans��er to tl►is problem. I don' t tliink an,ybody really l�no�vs
t}ie e<.tent of the prol�lem--!io�ti� b��d it is , l�o�s mi.icti is c�ntribi�ted hy
b��ats , ho�v much is contributed by se�i�age pi�mped in from the municipal ities ,
�nd from the surrounding private draini'ields . It ' s a real +�rol�lem, Y�ut
I don' t thi.nk tlie answer is to say that nobody c��,n have tl�eir hoat on
Lake �Iinnetoi►ka.
��--�5 Tape 2
3-21f_69 1'age 6 Page 3
r
hlayor Ross : I think ttze ��robably tencl to use tl��e re��{lations a.t sor�e
time by :�Ihe Federal or S te �,overn,T�ent. . .
Gro: s : 5tate'! !
btayor Ross : T ••��ouldn ' t say i;liey coi�ldn ' t bar boa.ts or �.i�,yt';ing, tl�ev
did t}�is in t3ie City of 'titinn�apo]_is nn snr�e of ti�ei.r l�.kes, so I t'�i.n1�
this could be done , eventuall,y. . .
Gross : I tYainlc it ' s clifficul.t for one Vill��e to trv and set sor.e
re�ulations l�ecause hoats c��n come o`er from ��������here .
�'+-�ru,�u�v✓�'�`
ti�'llitel►ead: Idave you cor.te prepared t��itli ��r��°�e:eri�� figtzre�?,1r. Iiork��
can econor:ically survive �vith?
Gross : A hare minimum figure as to ���hat?
.���
1`,'1,i tei�ead: 1�s to l�oats � the bui lcling and an ���ater.
Gross : l`;ell , it isn' t a question of surviva.l . '�'e feel. .:�e ' re entitl.ed
to the E'f slips tl�at �=,e l;ad last ,ye�r on tl;e lake . I don ' t tFai_n)� that
the village can say �:e ' re �oing to lii�iit yo� to ....— ' to sc�rvive .
��'hiteheacl: �_ ___
Gross : No , ��,e don ' t , ���e t;�ink that tfiis is , all ttiin�s ennsidered, an
econoriically feasible one , I c�on' t !�:no1« ��rhetl���r it ���o� lc� be feasible to
bL�ild, �vell I can see it obvioi.�sl,y ��-ni.aldn ' t ��e feasiY�le to }���ild a
coiistruction ] ike tYiis for 20—�5 slips . T��is i s 1�}lat a b��il.ding ? ike
tl:is �vill }iouse . It 1��i1.1 !ioz�se 170 boats , and tl�e F4 in tlie �vater ���e
�eel it ' s sahat �ve 've tiad over the years and tiiis is �Sihat zve ' re entitled
to. �''e feel that t)lis is an economic operation, and I don' t t'�ink ne
can cut that. Sizre , it can be cut Y�ack, Y�ut it ��ecomes a losing ��ropos—
ition at some point. I don' t l��t�o�v at �vh�,t ;�oint it bec�r;�s econor�ica� ly
unfeasik3le to put up t9yis bizilding. (,,ia,yor asl;s Coiancil if th� re a��,e'
aziy r;�or•e questions) �"ell , •,re ' 1.1 certainly a�iake tl�es� ;�lans��o��d'�i'}��dy
�rYio «�arits to look at tlieni and disc�ass t}aem. �
��Iayor: Tlianl.s a lot�ringin� tklem, Noz�, ;�ettin� into the disc�.�ssi n,
tive have a lot of �eople here . . . . �k'e �vant to hear an,ybody here t11� has
a cliseizssion on our �rohlem. '"e feel tt�at tlie ti'illaEre of Orono is in
the place , �ce have a real ��roblem 1s�itll a concentratzon of boats i n this
one area of tr�e lake . 1`�e �vant to hear the peopa.e ' s case , ?-�'e d�n ' t «�aiat
to get into an argument back and fort�i �+ti.th tlle ;}eople here . T��is
Counci.l ti��ants to Yiear everybody talk. I thi.nl: to st�rt t�Titli, '�.Ir. Frtien
is here from the --lie ' s tl,e past president of t11e "aters'�ed DiGtrict ,
and he has some eomnients to malce . I 'rn ;;o n�:; to let him r�a.lce tliem first,
Frueri : Thank 3�ou, lir. Itoss . I 'm chairman of the ?"�ter `�i.tal i.ty C�mrnittee
of the "�"ater�hed Listrict , . , Tt�e ``'aters'�ed Dist�'i.et �>��s scat aside
t',20,000 for cooperative efforts lrity► municipalities on t'Ae 1_ake , ��nc3 I 't�
sure i;trere is some i���ney left in t1�is bucl�et, a] t!:�i�gh ot}l�r r-�uniei.�a].ities
]�ave asked , atld I tllinl: �ti�e ' re at a polrit on tlle lalce , �s�',ere �1asic sttidies
of turbulence , of �r�,ter r�:over;;ent, anc� really tt�e amount of sediment ti�a.t
a boat of a ce tain �;ower will bring up. T!:is l:ind of a job can Y1e done ,
and it ��lould give eacli Colar�cil on tlie lake �vitj� si�il.�r problems sorle
basie facts to deal �vitli, It �.ro=.�1d be a benefit .to nollution '::ecatase
�ve are sure there is ��gff much evidence, '�ir, (��� � , .�Le��
�.
�-�-�5 Tape 2
Page 4
3_24-69 P�ge 7
and tYie �rater experts f'rom wYisconsin all agree t}xat everytime you disturb
fine sediments in the bottom of t}ie l.ake , you eticoi�rage al�ae gr��ti�t11, and
you provide additional. food . If t}1e Village �sas in any ;7osition to
match funds , I 'm sure our �}'�.ter (�uality Cor^lmittee �:v�uld make a recommend—
ation to the I3oard of lianagers ����'�ic}� I 'm sure tl�ey �v� :ld really ol:ay.
And t}iis �s�ork «�ould start as soon as tl�e lake �tias open, and it cot:�ld
be one of tY�e first programs in the ne�v «�ater quality studi��s that are
being made in 19F9.
Franzel : Air. Fruen , tivo�ald you in essence say, that tlle ]:no�i�].edge that ' s
known at tl�is point ce ��tainly recognizes tY�ere is a I�robl em, btzt t}�f�re
is not enough of a stud,y done to really determine the serio►asne� and
the cornplications th��.t r�ight be , let ' s say, in c�nsidc�rin�; tt�e e:�panded
use of the lalce , and to rna.l�e an inl;elligent decision, �,�e �eally should
Yiave some of t}iat information.
Fruen: T11at ' s right . `��'ell , �vliat I see toni�}it , and �v)�at I 've l::no�s�n,
it ' s time to get sor�e basic facts a���otzt actual loeations . I do kno«
ttlere are sanc� bottoms exposed in Ttaxtis�e] 1 ' s I3�,y, No�ti�, ,you ���1d test
over sand Uottoms , �ahere there <<�nuldn ' t be ver,y l ittle - .-
You also can test over the �corst �zrea �a�}�iere tlie sedinient occtirs . .Yo��
�vill tiave to find it , you ti��i ll have t� sho�v i��hat ' s eausing tl�e di st�zr—
bance . Then you' ve got to face lowering speeds and even deptY►s �rYaere
you al.low boats to run, tlnd it ' ll get to tl�is in lake �finnetonka,
because illinnetonka is looking at a r►aximum t�se of ��oats] There isn' t
any question about it . And �nore , if tlie al.�ae i.s cleaned up. T' is is
a vicious circle . I ' r► sure of the fact--�se �rill do tller� eveiitt�ally, but
I don ' t lciio�v how fast it �i�ill come on the a;enda, becau° �- ther�� ' s so
much to be dorie in �i�ater qi�ality, Yoii see , �,e 've got �11 the other
lal{es outlined. Tt�ey h��ve problems . Not as ]ar�e as '�Iinnetonka' s , l�ut
they are all under the ,j��risdiction af the �4aters}�ed,
Dtayor Itoss : No�v, I rnigtlt say that as far �� tl�e Vill���e is concerned,
in our se�ver, i_n our canv�rsati ons b�ut se«�ers no�v, the ne�v `�ietrono] itan
I3i11 of the Soutli�yest Se�ve District I3i].1, the Vill.a�;e was ��i�t in a
position of ��robably joi�n��`(�one of the ot'iF>r of tliea�, anc:i i.i; ' s rea7ly
an e�}:�ensive ttiing, and I don' t believe tl�at t'��re ' s rea].ly enoizgll
enougli information yet on the lake to say exactly �,�liere tY�is is cotni.ng
i'roi��, }7o�v rT�uch actual the setivers talcing it out of lh�re �•:�ill do to the
lake . These studies haven' t been Tnade . . . .
Fruen : I c�uestion yoi;ir infarr:iation, "�.r. Ross . F� to 8�j� of ,yniir x.3rob] em
is se�vage affluent. Don' t kid yourself ,
1layor P�oss : I 'm not saying that, btat I sa,y tl�at after t'?ey net it oi.it,
tilez•e ' s no assurance that tl�e 1_ake �ias c'.ianged ?�(�z e , htat ' s �^}iat I sa,y.
F�@,n : 0}i no, ttiere ' s many other tl�ings to be c�one � 1so, I agrer �A.�itY�
you 100�'0. Fiut it takes time , it t�kes tirTie . A lake has a certain
tolerance . Yotz go beyond that , y�u don ' t l;no�� ho�v fast . It needs
addi�ional fresh �vater. It needs many tl�ings ,
1lavor Ross : T`:'Yiat I 've heard in a? 1 the riany meetings that I 've g�ne to,
and tl�ere ' s n body that ' 11 come out and say if �ve take , and I 'm tall�ing
about the l�oats no�v, I 'm going after the se�ver hit, if «�e talte a�.�t se�vage
away from here , tl�at �����' re going to entirely correct the l.�.ke �s �ar as
pollution is conce ��ned. , , �� ��.Q�(j ,
0
�
7���S� Tape
� 0`�_ H�� 2
3-24-69 Yage 8 Page 5
Fruen : There are rr�� otller t' ings to be done , tlir�re ' s no ct��esti�n �Y�n�t
it . You've got to se ti=�hat ' s coi�ing into the lake from every stream,
and you 've got to control it. A] so, septic t�nks and cesspao].s are
catlsing a lot of __ -' prot�lem, Rut I tt�anted t� mal�c� t' is offer t�
you. If you are intf��rested in it , I think soYne very import�ant �vork can
l�e done .
?�iayor Ross : �;'e thank you very much for coming, and makinh us aware of
the situation. Is there somebody else now, tYaat . , . .
Citizen: 1'erhaps tl�is gentleman cotz].d give us a rotigl� estimate of
�j�hat such a study may cost and �vhat the total funds might be rec��iired
�rom tlle Vi 1 lage?
F'ruen : Really, t�sis sl�ould be done by a staff �titto is prepared to do
t}1is . �x�r����x����$xxx�x�x:liy rr�it�h guess is `�35,000) �otal c�st f�r
the st�.� y of �taxwell �3ay. T}:is is not tt�e �vY�ole ] alce . You see, tl��re ' s
so r.�uc detail tl�at has to be done . Y�u've got to sam�le �n qi�iet days
�v��en tl ere are not boats , ,y�u 've got to _____ - maximum ti.zrhizlence by
boats , yoiz 've got to, besides t}iat tl�ey' d have to do a i�t of �n�ineering
to chart the curbs .
hiayor Itoss : �lnybody else «ito �va�ts to comment on t��i5 r;a.rina sitiaation?
!''e ' s 1 get a,�i�ay fro that pa�t of it.
RSan in rear 1vit1� glasses : 1ir. �tayor, I have a qiae�ti on, In yo�ar onening
rer�arks you said, and I qiiote your e�act n�ords , "�."e llave tolcl tt►em tl►ey
�oTould have their per?iits by �1pri1 l. "
�;ayor Ross : I told ttiem ���e �t'nuld act on t?�eir �ern:its b,y April l .
h�an: You didn ' t say that , you said you told t}�em the,y dti�nt�ld ';�ive t�?eir
permit by 11pri1. 1 . I �a�anted to l.no�v �-v�,o i�-e is and i� �ossihle, is t}iis
you and tlie 1}�iildi.ng cor.�missioner, or tirho are we tallcinn aboi�t?
Tlayor Itoss : 1Fe ' re talking about the Coi�ncil . I�ri s�ealci.ng for tl�ie Coun�.il .
I
Stubbs : ��'e woul.d act on it , I 'm sure is ►rhat you me<�ntx, isn ' t it, Irc�rb?
hiayor Ross : Yes .
Tylan: Uh, one iriore questi.on. Tl�e attorney mentioned t;l:at when they get
their r;iagnificent building up, t�iis lvil] increase ttieir tax liability
to our area. Does anyone here l�now �i�h�t ttleir tax liabilit,y n�as in 1968?
�trhat it is in 1969, and ho�v m�icYi money it ' s based on? I just saw my
taa staternent for fYns year, and I �m up v�ry close to 40jo. �Zy tax state—
ment, according to the inforriation I ]Zave , and I jiist own a );ome hc�re , I ��,
d� n ' t l�iave corimercial property that is repixtedly «�orth �851�000. Afy ,p�
ta�:ation is ��bout half a�ain as big as they tell me Tir, Ilork ' s tas `� �
statement is . I 'm real curious as to tii�hat is goi_ng on in t}ie t�x �-�
structure of t�zis operation, and also I 'm a little et�rions as to �T•h��t
is going on in the tax struct�zre for �ur homes in t�,is area.
biayor: `"ell , as far as tr�e tax str�.�etiire on tF�e ITorlc property, 'ie has
only had tlie bare Iand tr►er� , and I 14o�:].d imagine that trie va7�_ie �vas
set on '�is property as liigh as the assessor felt it �r�s on the rF�st of
the ��rc�erty there , anc� it was set aecordingly, hizt of course , 4°�Y�en }ie
builds a ne1ti� b�.iildin� t}�ere , it ' s goi_ng to add a lot ���ore v�,] �.lation to
it . T�;is is . . ,
3-24-69 Pa�e 9 -�-�-�,�5� tape 2
Page 6
hlan; You don ' t then l�.now �vhat l�is tax is no�v on. . .
�uc�
l�iayor: '"e could find out a���fully easily, b�� going over � �S:e offic
ancl lool�ing, but I don' t kno�v rigYzt now, no.
Dian: I tldinlc that ���oi ld be int��resting to tl�is hroup.
Stubbs : I think }.�ossibly o�.ir biaildin; i;}s;nector i.s �oin� over t;o c��eek,
�"'e may t�ave the ans�r�er in a little �vhi ) e ,
«`oman in aiadience : I ' d 1.ike to l:noi�� if, »l�h , ':ave done �ny research on
tlie �n�ret-en.�res of all. t}ie cars on Saturday ancl Sund�.v in ��.nd �i.zt �f
}iis marina, as far as the Cotinty �:igl���-ay Corlr�.issi_on �o�s , Tl�at ' s l;:ind
of a dangerous corner, I �=�as ����ndering if anyone l��d lool;ed i nto. , . , I
l�no�v tl�ey've tal)�ed to the Conservati.on peo;�].e , but tiave they ��ade any
study �vith the County 13i�;h�va,y Cor�mission. . .
Gross : No, ���e h��ven ' t . I don ' t t��ink it �vill be ��luch of a con,�,restion
problem, but that ' s for trie Counci]. to consider, too.
�'i�a��i`_: : �`'ell , ttie point �tiras broiaol��t up ���ith tkicir o�����n cl�i_ef �i' �olice .
G�ross : I think tlre C1�iief of Po] ice had no objection to t'�is ;�arti ciilar
installation.
Franzel : Incident�] ly, a l i tt�le rit later in tiere toni�;ht , t}ze Ca»t�in
ot trle "'ater I'atrol. , Vern :lnderson, sllo�ald be here , and ��e i s specii'�ca] l,y
going to �ive a ] ittle rundoti��,n �n tl�eir �nd of it froxn tlie ] al�e , :�nd
�ive tliat ��hase of it , so a l i ttle l i�l;t s!�o�i] d he si�ec! on i t �t t��.i s
point .
��Iayor: �1ny ot;,er ��uesti�ns`? 3�e�iiarlcs?
George Jotinson : `,?r. '>`�yor. I ' d like to be rzeard �inles5 snmeone else i.s,
witli resj�ect to t}iis }�roblem. I 'r,� C�eorge Jo�:nson, a r<� s ident of Vorth
t�rm, and I ' m l�ere tonight s;Feal�in� if I may, ori ��e!ialf of a �Y.roi��� af
interested neiglibors , residents �s�ho've lon� 1�^en concerned ���itd1 the
candition of Lal�e r,:innetotil:a, as �„�e] 1 as t€�e Vil.lage of (irnnc�, Tl�e3r
}�iave corue togettier t� forr� a �;r�i.zp �v��icl� thev ca11 t)�emsFl.ves I,a�;.e
?.iialnetonita Improvel�ent Association. `')iat nrecin��ted t}3e or;��rii.zati�n
nlas the recent anno��nce�rient tl�at req»ests hac� been si�t��itted for a
sizbstantial increase in tlae num�er of s7 ips on the vario��s ba,ys i n t}�e
Villa�e of Orono, �nd partict.al.arly, of coi.�r�e , 1fa;:i;�e11 Fiay, �s T�,ell as
Tanaher Lake , �,nd I�ro�vn' s Tiay. No�v, any rez�arks I Y�ave l�ere--�i,�el_1 , first
of all I �v�uld lil:e to say tl�at if I take a fe��� r�in�ates becaiase T �rn
talking on hehalf of sorne 4� or 5� families �rl�o ��.rP int�r� sted i.n t?�is
and �v��� ti�cve aslied me to sort of outline t.�ei r view far tlaem, In additi nn ,
my approacti, altllo�igti somel��llat general, is addressed to an apnro�cl� on
the part of the Conncil, ��r�iich is for tlie r:�oment at least, f�r t4le tir�e
Y�ein�, more general ; �onseqizently, my re�;�arks are -� ore of a general nature
tllan of a specific . Tf t}►ere is ��n�le time �,�.�e mie':t be ab7 � to het
sp�cific at a later date . I rii �;lit also add t11at I 'r� not addressi.ng
myself to AIr. Iiorl:.' s constr�;�ction per se , t�ut rat}1er ��t any inereased �ase
of tlie la).e in a commercial_ sense , i:�e it s]_ips , �n s'.�ore or off s�tore , or
any other co:�mercial iise of t�ie lalce proper. I migl�t at t),is tirne inject
tYie stater�ent E�,�flieh I have in the past, and t'�at is tl�at t�iere are tl�ose
of tzs z�.�ho have never recognized the right of tlle Vi1la��F to ' i.c��nse or
issue perc�:its for the use of tl�e lake , ot1,F�r tllan in con,� ��neti on ��Ti t?i tlle
��-�� Tape 2
3-2ji-69 Page 10 Page '7
upland, or the stiore].and . ?,�e recogilize t��e ri�ht of the Vil]a.ne to
aone tY�e al�utting land. ''.'e recognize the ri�l�t of t11e lando�vner to
use ttie stioreline parallel ���ith liis ;�roi�erty .for le�itimate piarPoses ,
consistent ���itt�a tlle zoninc of trie ��ro�;erty. F'e clo not recognize any
right in t}�e �:arina operator or ti�e Villa�� , or a.n,y�ne else , f�r th��t
matter, t� lf.�ase ot.it of i ssue T,er:�its for tkie use of ttie pi��l i c � �aters
of the Villa�,e of "Iinnetonlca or tF:e ctate of '��innesota , any���re tl�an �We
recognize t}ae riglit of trie Vi71a�e i;o i.sstae nertt�its f�r izse of a �,u�lic
park and grounds , pt.iblic parks , playgro�.ands for co?�r�ercia] pizr�oses . !"e
i'eel that t1�e surface of the ]al{e is for tlie benefit ni' rj11 the ��eo,�le
1v}►o enjoy tlie lal:e , and not for the �zse of t?�n�e fe�� «•��� �rnnld ri�n t3iei.r
��rojects some tl3ree o� four 1�lzndred f�et o�it i,n tlie ��'`�� I d�n ' t`�I�ave
to tell this Cot.�nci l abot:it the efforts trat ��<�ve been ���ade in that di.r-
ecti�n ir: the past four or five S�ears , Not�1, more particul�rl.y, to �ive
you so:ne idea of tl�e people involved in tl�e I�alce Afinnetor�ka nrntip in
tliis area, T ost of ther� you l:no�v. I?rnie O1s�n, yoi.i �.now, Carl ?�art►�ey( ?)
hlarge Gash , IIerm P�enner, ;!Iilt T��tt1e, Joe T���idtivell . Yn» see , they' re
all peo� le �i�1�o are interested _ . and concerned �.�i ttz tl�e
future ' the ]al:e. :�ricl tliey l�ave come to�;et}�er to �ian��ort ir� any ���ay
t�aey can tlie acti_on of the Vi.11.�ge and t}�e Vi ' l �,�;e C�i.�nci l in its
efforts to preserve l.�alze �iinnetonka and i ts vari_ous b�ys , :�nd the
cor^r�unity in general for ttie benefit of ever,yone . No���, I s)aould like to
observe , if I may, tYiat the residents of Lake '<tinnetonl�a riiist I�ave
Y�etter vision, and if ,yoi� ' 11 for�ive me , tYz��n tlie �-ov�rnmental �odi.es ,
because every problern tfie lake l�as today ha.s been �re��i eted bef.ore t}�is
Council in previous meetin�s . The prol�lems of pollution , the �?r�hlFms
of congestion, the problenis of nizis��nce on th� ].ake , �111 of tl�ese tiave
k}een discussed at previ.oiis meeti.nhs . `�.�yor I�oss , I t!:ink, c�n testif,y to
�his , as dti•ell as c�n �Ir. Franzel , the tllat i�ave been r��de
,-:
Ttie consec�uental prob] em, ��rt�icY� i.s t1,e or�anization,
is , of coi�rse , tlie condition ol Lake Afinnetonlca, Tlre condition of the
lalze it seems to most of us , is so apparent , tliat it h.lyd]v needs to be
etnpltasized , and I �;liink it i s , t� al l , ��ce��t tho5e �sno are �l inded h,y
��iotives of profit , and ��}�o areally are not cnncerned ��:i.t;; the lal:e , or
po:-�sible tliose persons �v2�o do not �vi.sh to see the ��ro�>l.em, that t?+e lal:e
is becor.iing kno���n as tlze lake not fi.t for s�viinmi.nrr, for boatin�, or sailing,
It ' s a��parent to everyone . The editorials in regional ra�ers , t}�e Ioca1.
��ar3ers , tv, radio, press , all refer to tl:te lalce as territ.�le, ot�jPctionable ,
offensive . �t'e 've all seen the ;�hoto�ra�hs of tlie b�.ys fi ].led �:�ith a].gae ,
tYle boats are b]ack on tiie '�ottor::, t}ie drift���ood fl�atin� in the ].ake ,
acres of pilin�s and docics rottin�. Traese are fa.r�iliar sights . A���ost
every �veek tt.e �tinnetonl:a Sian contains axticl.e ��ter ��.rt.i_c] e h,y scientists
a��x en�ineers , and corisultants of the aeplorable conclition of the ] ake ,
Tl�e causes th�t are ] i.5ted are ] ong : ses��a�e , �arn�.tae , �;as , oi.l , debris ,
litt�P, �ressure on the l�,l:e hottoms , and �ut��_ ic se'��age s,yster�!s , nrivate
sesage s,yster:ls . There are just �bo�at end] ess causes , As a matter of fact,
more recently, in the `Fiinnetor�ka Sun ��e all sa��� �ictures of pink <�lgae .
The re��ort, «�ritten bl� a rnan ti��)�o is cn��sidered an aiat���rity, and �rt�o
�oir�ted oi�t that i.n his j�adgement , ti� s is tl�ae preli.�i_nary, actually, to
a dead lal�e . T}�is is the first ���i�� a serious condition tli.�t can
result in tiie com��lete destructioil of tl�e 7.al;e . '�'o���, in t}�is connecti�n,
t�io�ce of us ���ho ] ive on h.innetor.�l�a, }c��orv that I�alze ';tii�net�nka ?-�av not be
dead , btzt ti.ose wilo live on `,`�,x�vell Ii��y and �tubY�s Ray �].ready r�ali.ze
i;tiat tYi�.t area is , for all r�racti.cal ;^ur,�oses , c�ead , An,yone «i�o takes
;;is a�oat past ttie rlarinas on a liot sun�r�er day ]cnoz�-s tl�e anse�- r, If «�e
just �eant to look over tl�e edge of tlie l�o�#, we can see «l..it tk�e =�rob] em
i.s . The ;,ater last fa7.1 �.�as sc� ti:ick ,yoti cot�ld al ost s��ovel at , �'r��,rt?�ne
ti_n cans , litter, fl �ating aYao��t , ��eo�►le ] iving �n 1��use'�o�ts , Thi s �����s la �
general condition, it ' s not i.nust�al . .ls a tr.atter of Tact, the nnl�- �
�'`ti�-a Lt-�z-U
"""0�'� � Tape 2
3-24-69 Page 11 Page 8
I tliinlc :��a� today is not �.vliethc�r the la.ke is d,yi.nn--it ' s a �i�estion of
�i•tien it �tiill be dead. In ti�is connection, t'�is Cot�nci� . <�nd t!�is
cos��munity, I ti�inlc, must sliare a major �art of the responsibil it,y f�r
tYie current condi tion. Ttie Vi.a.l.a�e controls the r.la,i �r pa.rt of t1�e ].ake ,
and if tl�iis Villa�;e }ias ���ermitted '�iaxtivell �3ay into devel�p into tl��e
unsihlitl,y mess i t is tod�,y. 1\s a mattcar of fact, i t �r�i�ld he ni.ce i f
�re could bla�,�e sor•�eone else , bi.�t �,�re c��n' t. 1Ve , as citizens Yanre , �re
responsil�l.e also, r�ecause ��e permitted it to Lat�,�en. Tl�e citi zens
s}�oi�lci ti�ive long a�o taken ���hatever ste}�s �cere necessary to ;�reserve
ttie lake for our f�.ature and for the current �eneration , '���ti�, in ti;is
connection, as a m��tter of fact, ',:r. !'.ross , cn�;inci.l tller�� for :�Ir. lIork,
Iias said tliat lie doesn ' t ]cnon� �ti�hat cat.zses 1;l:e �olli�ti.on, ��,nd ciei �her
do I , but t}iat t!re la.ke is pol luted , I ]cnow, I l ive on i t , I taJre �7y
boat on it , drive by it, �.ncl it seems to me , t?;en that �ti�e s�l�ialdn ' t
experiemnt an�r fiarther. It seems to me the tirie ?�as c�r�e for �,etion,
not directed to�.vr:trds ir�cre�sing the prohJ.em, bi�t to���rcis decreasin� it ,
11s amatter of fact, I ].i.stened l�ist �+�inter to an en�ineer l���re i i1 the
corimunity, tallcinh at a nleetin� of the I,al�e '.'�ii�neto� lca Conservati�n
District , and at his tallc( `? ) t�e C�roblen� �ras so critical t!1at 1�� st.agr�ested
not suggested , he �dvised, that if �re want to s��ve t!�e lake , �ce Sho��ld
quit iertilizin� oiar lalvns , b�;e�use of r�.inoff frorR� t}ie 7a�ans i.s adding
to tl�ie I�ollution of the lalce . 11nd yet , 1�ere i�e sit and ci� scuss at sor��e
len�til, «�ith cii �nit,y, the ��ro�osal to add 2n� more bo�.ts to �+n area the
size of Alaxwell ]3��.y and St��bbs I3ay. Sor;ietir��es I tl�ink «e lr�t �i.zr reas�ning
process overcorie oizr good ,jtidgement� r�ecai.ise i_t ' s alr�ost self-evidentr�
11 around us resr�onsible citirens �1r4� rzovi.n��l �hor�in� , «�orking. "'e t����e
tie Aiinnet�nka Lake Conservation District , Freshwater I3iological I.nstitute ,
the Uni.versity of 11linnesota is involved, r�rivate hr�ups are i��orkin�, ���. -:�-�-
)aired const�ltants , and r�oving in every direction, r.�akin� ef forts t� try
and g��xa preserve the lake from , �s'e , '�o«�evF�r, resx�ect the
processes of tl�e Vi i l�ge Coiznci.l , and �ve l:r�o�v tl�at r��emb~ rs of tl�e Co�ancil.
are sincc�re , resporlsible , and m<.ture citi.zens of t' is comr.:�znit,y, �nd
tt►erefore , �re as}z tt�e Co�.zncil t�ere toni,�ht to c�efe.r anv �nd a.11 action
concerni.n� ��.11 requests f�r r�iore slips or i.ncreased m�irina activity of
any l�ind, until �uid�nce is fortl►coming from bodies created to deal -, it)1
tliis i�robl em. The Lake Conser•vation Distri ct tias the ai�tl,ori tt�, as !�,�e
uricterstand it , to regi.�late a71 as�ects ��.nd tlse of the lalce . It is ���orl:ing
in tliis ciirection. Sti�dies are 1�eing com�iled, �eorl� is bei.n,� c��j�e . `�1r.
P'ruen toni�ht tras indicated sorie of tt�►e possibilities that can !��e donP .
It seems to me ���� therefore , tliat ��.�e s}io�ald not rusli }�astal ,y into
ac�tion. If tlie ]�ke has survived �.,�i th ttie nunber o:f sli�s on it up ti. 11
rio�r, I beli.eve it ��ill sttrvive f�r ��ri�t}ler ,year �.�itll otat a.r�y ino.�� sl.i��s
tlian 11�e presently hta.ve. It seer.�s to r�e tilat tl�� ('oi.zraci7 r�i��4�t no t talce
��ny �icti.�n on these rec�uests until «�E see ��hat; rc�ial�tions tl��e La.�,�e
Aiitinetonl�a Conservation 1)istri.et a�ill dc�velop. In additi�?� , tl�e C�unci ].
st�oul.d, indeed r�ust , appoint e�:�erts and stt�d,y coinr�ittees t� revie�v tl�e
prol�lein of ��07 lution, the problems of conce�ltr�ti on, the ��roblems of
elimination of pollution--��rli�t can l�e done , !��hat tl,e effects of �OI.J.t�t.l.nri
are in tl�e small bay as cor,lpared ���i.th a large .�r��a, a.nd it se�ms to m,� to
gather every fact tliat ca.n be ���thered before it acts in t? is �rea. I
tfiinlc tlie ci.tizens of tlle cornmunity ���o��ld endorse , and �va!tld apnrove
eritliusiastically any eftort of tiiis Couneil in tl�is direction, It see�,is
to me t}rat the stal:es are considerable , �.nd I �F] 1P.,VP. t'ie Caiinc9l �v�,�had
}�e �vise and a.ci:i.n�; in t}ie best interr.sts of ttiie conar�•unity if t�,ey r��ii]d
�;et together the necessary funds and ta}re �4•hat steps are necessary to
raise these funds , in terms of levys , in order to conduct siich stuclies
as r�riht�t ��e needed to raelp and b�.2ide us in tl�e future in t�=is prob].em.
I�:;veryone here pays a substantial ario�,nt of taxes . T}�e cost of a st��dy
��� Tape 2
3-24—�i9 Pa�;e 12 Page 9
is a very sr�a.11 part i.n t�Ee picture. .\s a r�.atter of fact, I ' ve Y�een to] d
that ttie resiclents of ��tax�;�el l l;ay c�ntriY�izte so;��e r ��0,(�n� in total. tax �
dollars . I ' ve also Y�een told that tl�e s��.:ri.nas c� �tran��ted � total of;;,�y�v�.� �
�'?,5,000. I 've been told t}�at one }�roperty ne�rby the prc�sent r���i.ra.na
contributes a.ln:ost t14,00� . `10���, intternts of tl�e benefits to tlie co!�muni.t,y,
the prol�l.ems af tlae co��:munity, it seems to �e tk�at ever��t'�in� i_s al_l oiat
of balance , anci �ve augY�t to t��or�. to, it see�:as to �-�e , to �reserve t�e lalze
and to reco�nize tl7at all interests riust be cornpatibl.e , l�nd it se�t;�s to
me that in t!�is connection, that one '� the Vi_lla.ge's deferrin� acti.on,
' �v}ii.cl� it :nust , it seer�s to rne , on ti�;is cli�estion. It ���gl�t tn take
posi.tive action to e]_i�^iin��t� , it seems to t�e , some of the ;7�.rin�s that
`��e no�a� have , r��tlier the sl ips , that I st�.ted before , �;�re ���xa��r�x d� not
reaognize tl�e ri.�ht of the Cot�ricil to ��err�it tt�e i,ase of t?�ese sl ins in the
d�ke , otYier tl�an p�:irallel «�iti� the izpland , It i s oi�r o��ini.on tliat tlie
Council lvould ;.ave �. rigrit to el i^ii nate the i.�se of t}�e �����ter s? ips for
rental purposes , e�cept ��,�l�ere p�lrallel `��itta tl�e upl�nd . If tl�ere are
more slips neec3ed, then n�ore land n�ill ha.ve to h� �-T�dF� av�il�Ya].e .for th�t
purpose , but soa:�e�io�a=, it seerls to �is , that tiierj� is no ,j��stifi���tion to
permi t tl►e use of the lake in general for t'tis fi�ncti.on . '''e t; i►11� t��erefore ,
t}iat tl.is �;rou�� ouhht to take this action, ancl in t;�is coz�neeti�n , «�i.tl�
tlie Council ' s indulgence , I �i�oi�ld like to r��ad t��e closi.ng nax+agraph from
the report af the cliairr�an of the plannin� cor�ini.ssion, et�ith res��ect to the
mari.nas . I '� sure al.l of you !i-:ve read it, ?».�t I ��n� ].d ). ike to rc�ad i.t
once ; ..ore , i�ecause I t>>inl� It ' s al�pro;�riate for the o�casion, ��nd I 'm
quoting no1;-, clirectly from "�:r. SrF;ss�].l ' s recommendations : Ret��rnin� to
tYie I�ork applicati on, there se�ms to b� good r�asnn to 1�e1 ieve that t}�e
present e�pailsion of marin�z facil ities , tl��t t'�is ���arti cul.ar I oc<�tion
woi�ld riot be intFie best inter� sts of the citi.zens a:f Orano, nr t}�e lake
area generally. 1ldclitiona7. facilities are bad15� needed, a,nd sYzould not
long 1�e delayed , but tliey should be constr��eted onl,•,�-,� i\�A�accordance erit'� an
overal.l plan , �vorked out in cooperation ��Tith other�''�f'��h"�'�i.p��.liti.es , �nd
agencies , and based upon s��und tec�ini cal it�formation �;�`�i. c�, is �nl,y ��o�
beginr�ing ta beco�1�e available . I t}�erefore S1:l��P,St � ( 1 ) tlaat all �ro�osa] s
for construction, expansior� , or relicensin� of m�,ri_nas , la��ric�ii.n�; r�.m��s ,
�caterfront resta�zr�nts , service docks , st��l��rlobile centers or otl�er
facilities , l�e referred to t��e Diinnehaha Creek '�''atersl�ed I)istrict , t)ie
l.al:e �Iinnetonka Coriservation Di.strict , as t��ell as tl�e F'] annin� Comz�ission,
for study and recommendation before any final action. TPt�t beca��se of n��t�
evidence no��� br;coriing vail��lie on ;�o� liition ancl eYisting ���bl ic n�iis�nce
problet�s , }�articularly , any e:�annsion of ��a.ri na facil ities r?n
Diax�rell Ba.y appears to be contrary to sound ni�l�l i.c policies , and ��rie
reduction fr�ni ttie Z�resent scale of activit3� rj�3�% b��cor�� necessary, ( 3)
that Orono Sf1nUlC� cooperate ti��itxz ottier 7al�:e a��inicip�a.1 iti.Fs i.�� qliickl,y
develo��ing and ado��ting regT;lations on a] l aspects �Rnd ixse of
the lake . ( 1i) ttiat Orono slioul.d �.etivf>ly seek�.�itable ites i'or
several attraci,ive , odern marin��.s , �n�l ].ai�nc?.in� r�rips, encoura,�e }zri`•<�.te
parties to consl;ruct and operatE, tlzeni, ancd be ;�re�:<�red to rezone sotr�e
properties to �vaterfront co��imer•cial , a.nd� �� r���it and �arl��:nb
areas as necessary ��xx� or construct -t�� faci.] i.ti4��s itself for lease
to c�ual ified operators . It seer.�s to ��e , t}ierefore , t�zat in t}�� ]_i�l1t
of t}ie ov��r����helmi.ng evidence that ' s in, that nartici�l�rl.,y in i i_,�ht of
tlte recomn.endations of the 1'lannii�� Comrnission c2�ai rma.n, t?lat tF�� Cn�.anci _l.
�voulcz be �srell advisec3 anc3 eert�}i.nl,y i.n t}�e a.nt�re�ts of th� eor�ra�.anit�,
as t«ell �s the lake generally, to defer for t}�e ti.r.�e ?�ein^_; .�€�� indefinitely,
any furtller action ��a� with respect to �.ny incr�ase in ;�arina �etivity.
�'1p��lause from audi.enee
��*�� Ta�7e 2
3-24_6g Yage 13 Page 10
111r, Gross : Air, Jol►nson, �read fr��a� tlle ct�airn�an of tl�e 1'lannin�
Commission, the I'l-�nnin�t Cnr�mission ' s re>�ort . It �1�as clelivered before
tYie me�ting. Dt:�rin� the meeting, after the chairman }�F�ard ��Ir, l�orlc' s
plans ,l�e did clian�e ��is mind , and voted to �o along �,�i.t!� the r�rocedtire ,
so t!iis �ras ��� �iis ori�inal re��ort , �nd }�e did ella.n�e his g�p�g�
position, ����:xa����xi�x��xz�gx in the proceedin�s , a.nd voted in favor
af t}�is i,lan .
Sorneone : ITo�� many members ���c�re at t}ie i'lanning C�rnt,ission r��ec�tin�r, �re
you a«rare? (Gross ans���eres negatiqely) T}iere �s�ere three of t?�e si.x.
Three , �vhict, are not even involved in ttiis area.
P�Iayor: I mi�rit say ttiat the Co��ncil. li�s been very m��eF� a���are of tliis
siti�ati�n, and }tas been doing ever,ytflin� t}�at s�e felt ttiat �ve co�.ald do.
Ne acti,�ally at one time tried to rezone the property that ��,e ' re talliin�;
al�out no�v, t�ack to residential , �.nd it litasn ' t allon�ed, :Vow �e 1�av� ,
let ' s see , the �''<<ter Patrol C'sief hc�re , and he l�as some c�?n����nts to rr:ake
on condi tions , somet}�i rig on Lake Aiinnetonka, and �ve ' d l ilce to liear fr�m
liim. Vern Anderson. . .
Ancierson : I have some information, Rir. hiayor, that y�u wanted , and a.t ' s
in its entirety. You ticanted, I believe�, tt�e increase in hc,at �?oJ»al�ti_on
over the last period of ye�rs . I can �ive you a brealcdo�rn of aCcidents
and pers�nal inji�ry accidents . I c�in' t specifica] ly ?ive y�i� a r�reakd��vn
on any one bay. ��z�
riayor: Thi_s is ttie pol.icing, and the trrnible that �ve }aa.ve on the la� e ,
that you ' re referring to, now ivitt� t�ie l�os�ts tl�at �ve l�ave at this time .
tlnderson : Tl�is is t}ie overa7l pir,ture of Laice �Iinnetonka, not strictly
any one bay. Taki.n� i.t from 1963 to 1�68 , I'��i ' 11 note tt�e top ��ortion
is 1963 . . .��x��x�x�r����
Franzel : Do yoi� suppose you could read t��ose off. , ma,ybe , for the benPfit
of. . . ��
Anderson : Okay, ,yes , I ' ll rF�a.d tl�em off.
Franzel : Ol:ay, fine .
Anderson : ns an e°�ample , the number of boa.ting �ccidents i.n ] 963 ���ere
a total �f lg, as to 69 in 1968, Tl�at ' s 50 over. 01�ti of the aceidents ,
tl►e nwnber of I�ersons injured +,�,�ere 11 in 19F3 , as to 21 in l�<8 . \T��z>>her
of boats da.l�aged ���ere `�'.2 iri ' (>3, 44 in ' �i8. That ' s dot�b� e , nf c�i�rse ,
Total property clamage in doll�rs and cents . 1�63 �vas �'�11 , 000 even,
1968 �vas �;;22, 034. T}���,t ► s ; 7.1 ,034 over 1963. \T�i,,�ber of dro�vni ngs
irivolving «•ater traffic ���as 4 in ' 6�, and 1 in 1�?68. Tota? nt�mber of
coripl�ints , rio�v ti�is is recorded by tl�e ►rai. scel ].aneoi.�s boat o�erations
and so on — 480 in 1963, as to �22 in ' C8 ; t!iat ' s 442 over. Total
violati_ons lvere 2, O11 in 19Fi3 , 6, 241+ in 1���8--�i, 233 over ' �3, No«�,
I haven ' t brolcen t��is clo���n on an average i ncrease from ' 63 to ' 6A .
!liayor: I tlii.nl� it gives us a pictiire of the ar�o��nt of �as��e on t�e
lalce at ttiis time , �vf�icll is hro��ing all t}le ti_r�e , �s �ve l;i�a�v,
Ancierson : \o�v, understand, t��is is a_ll of I.alce `.iinnF�tonka.
ATayor: Oli ,yes , I realize tY.�at ,
��ndcrson : I c�uld , hotti�ever, ,�robably, or I giiess �nyone coi.ild do it ,
-�-�-� T a p e 2
3-24-f9 Yage 14 Page 11
contact through tlie boat and ����ter s��fety or the ������x conserva.tion
division, and 1'ind out actual ly ho�v r�any hoats �,1���re 7 ic�nsed cii�rin� that
�,eriod of tmme for Lalce `ii nnetonlca area, to oive you �.n idea.
�Iayor: T��is figi.ire voia mean f�r tl�e bo��ts on the la]ce , �:Pil�t d!�n ' t
coiant tlie 1:�oats cot+iing into tlre la}ce .
An�ierson : Yes . It ��oiild not coi.�nt tlae bo^ts h�ing lai�nc}led from other
pl.aces .
Someone :
: liave you got any idea ho��, T�:any bo��.ts cos��e in �n th� ��iibl i.c
land i n�`'
Anderson : 1'0 , I don' t at t�:is point . � 'e made a c�unt last ye�x on
Lake :Iirinetonka, and �ve hot up to 3, 100 t}1roi�gtlout trae ���hole �reek end
of 4t}i of July.
Pranzel : 3, 100 l:�oal;s on tlie lake?
Alayor: Coming in on these public landings?
Anderson : Yes , boats that came in and �vere launched an the lal�e ,
Solneone : Sa,y, lio�v man,y ;�ub] i c landin�;s clo �r�u ���jve?
Anderson : �i'e 've �ot ei�}it pulal ic landin�;s on Lake I��i.nnetonka, tliat is
ei.gl�t useable �ublic landinns . !`'e 've �ot one t}�at is n�t dev�7 �ped .
No�v t}�ese are County - o�°;ned landin�s , I']iis �aserlents t�:i1;t� various
Villages , and so on.
Sof�ieone : li�ve yoi:i� fonnd any ;��articul�r �ro1���J �ras in �,Ia��ael l I��y �,r�a,
morE� so than any ot}ler hay?
Anderson : tio, �� I h<xven ' t had any partici�lar ��ror�) Pms ; liowev�r, t'ze
one dro�vming occured in 1fa�«�ell T3ay, and t3iat coi�l.d }�� ve !aapr�ened any-
place . Th�:�.t �iTas a s�rimming--it �.+asn ' t a co] l i ssi �n �r acci dent-t,y��e
droe�-ning.
Franzel : In occl:zrence of ttie cont��>lair�i;s tt���t e;r�.�n�e in, �ti�r�ild tt;�re> Y�e
any �ra,y to rel��te tl�em to �vlaere the cor;.}�l.aint ce�ntered �r���nd , a�ain
lool�ing to�:�ards--is tltere any inforrir�tion tl�at �.o! 1d ] +�ad to cer�tra] iring
therri in certain areas2
�lnderson : 5ure , �ve could ^:orli up a bre�kdo�vn on �����ere r��ort areas came
irom, ��tit ��re ' re rzoping to do soxne selective enforcement t?:i s ,yc�ar i.n the
troubled areas--acciclent ��rone are�,s . "'herever tl�ere ' s }a�av,y Y�oa.t traffic �
� tl�is is �r}iere t}►e accidents occur--2�arrows I3ricl,�;e , ��laces 1 ilce tliis .
Someone : �Ias there been any im�rovernent in litter anc� dek�ris heing
tYiro���n in the �vater over the years .
Anderson : I can' t fionestly speali for tt�c� '►oatin� n��l�li.c. It ' s a ��ard
t}iirig to lceep up with . P'ish laouses , I can. T' is is c�nsider�b7,y ] ��ss
than it �vas l��st vear, ancl t}ae ��ear k�efore , but ci rci.�msta.nces ��re different
tl�is year. Not as tnn�,y fish tlouses . ?''e ]i�d s�r�et�iin� �ver 2,��n ] ast
year, and 4ve I1ad aroiand ] , 500 t'ris year.
Ittayor: On t,��?s , of c�i:irse , tlie regizlations are strictF�r, and ev�ryti�ing,
and t}�ey knoti4� the conditi��n more -- ���;� ;� ����� ���� ��,�2�
�� `�#S Tape 2
3—�4-69 Page 15 Page 12
Aric�ers�ri : I tl�inl: so--�•Y�e r..�arl: 1;'+em ancl ;o ����cl, �3t � 1�itF��� d�te . ` �c�
keep up ���itlt t}ieIn in tdii. s respect.
�filt hife of Stubbs I3ay: I ����i�der if I enuld ask a question. . . I ' m
;file I�ife of rtubbs Pa,y, �,nd I rvas ti��onderin� �,olti- �aith tl�is--���e ' re t� llcin�
�bout i�t�ildirig a builclin�; liere , and ive ' re tall;in� a'�r,ut ����oh���.l�1y 2clf�--3n0
Tnore boats in DIa:��vell Pay, �nd I con�e fro�� Stubbs I3ay, a,nd �;� tt;roz�gh
tYiese t��7o cl�annels to �;et in. ��'nuld ,yoia t?iinlc t}��t it �ti�i71. m�.l�.e i_t any
tougher to get trirotAgli tYie eliannel.s ���hen ,y�l.l ' re goin� to �l�t in a
small hay like that a Y�ig tliing lil�e t:�i.s , that tlae,y' re asliing to 1:>e
put in there?
t'lndersc,n : '"el] , I: don' t �;.no���. I 'm sure yoi� co� ld �,ns�ver t?�:�t �s ���eJ,l
as I coulc3 .
I�ife : ''.'el] , you go 1.�ack a.nd fortli, tliat ' s ���1�� I ��as `�onderinb ,
�nclerson : Yo�� live up ther„ you probably trav�l it r�o��e tY�an I do, Y7ut
I ' 11 have to a�ree the more l�oats traffic, the toizgl�er it ' s ��in� to k�e
to �;et in ttiere .
Kife : Tliank yot:i very m�.ct1 , t)�at ' s all.
Diayor: You �ot any otl�er questions for Vern , !�ere`? . . . . . , , . , . . .
Thanks a ].ot Vern, for co��ti.n�, eve ��t1��v �ve l�ave tYie �rob] enl, �jnd 1 t';inl..:
tlie �,rater T,atrol i_s doin� tl�eir v�ry best to talce c�re of tlie traffic t1�at
�s�e ti��ve on the lake . T?oat traffic is hard traffic--���Eien ,yoi.i ;�et a 1ot
of t��ats you �:;et problems , and ta�e certainl�� l�ave it on 1�akP ?,Iinnetonl�a.
Anybody else non�, �ti�ith re�;��rds to tliis siti�ation, t)Zat t��ants tn ���: heard`?
Franzel : Say, I might ac�d tlie inforriation on the taxes . l?ork, in ].968,
paid on three parcels of land �2,743,26, The taxes pa,ya��le in 1�C9
amo�int to ��:3, 796.72, So these �re from the actl.�al tax records .
bfan in rear: `iay I ask a question? T'�is cloes not inc]l.ide ti�e b�:i.7�ding?
Franzel : ' 'ell , you �nean the neiiT building 11e ' s ��i.n� to ���l�t tip?
ilian: tio , tlle ones that are on tt�ere now.
Franze]. : These include tl�e l�uildi.n��s 1ie ' s �ot on tl�ere now. T rn.ean, tlz:�.t ' s
�vliat he paid on ttie. . ,
hian: �1nd if my memory serves me correctly, �ve �ver� told he h<�s 8 acres
of land?
Franzel : ITe just recently, in fact didn' t you just recent�_y acqriire some
rt�ore land? so t}�at this �voi�ld not reflect an incre�se .
Diike : T�iat �t�as in the total.s , I included t�:a.t ,
Franzel : Okay
11fan : Is part of that rental. ��ro��e:�rty?
:�����x��r��z '�I�n in rear: Are� t}:�e three cottages th t arr Rn tlier•r rente��
''�'esterl��nd : �?o � there ' re re�?��.ir sllops . T1i.e big b;:ildi_n� a.s �. re;3�ir
s��op, the ca��in up in front is i.zsed bx,- I,arry �Zi.mse]_f. , �+nd tf�e one c€o�a�n
��'��� tape 2
3924_69 �'�ge 16 page 13
by tl�e lake l��as used by one of tl�e r;entlerien th�lt - orked t;,c�re .
Courtney, inrear: �''f�;o ' s P�Irs . �''}�ere does she live?
l"esterlund : Slle used to l ive in tl��e i�r?�ite lioiise , s',e does►1 ' t 1 ve t?Zere . .
C��urtney: Th�re ' ae a �entlemen that apparentl.y has some _fi sh �+oi.zse
ri�ht out in front , not exactly a small structure--yot� c��,n ' t ���i ss it,
�''esterlund : Ti�at ' s the �;arciener from ?vorth Star,
Courtney: Is ti:iis a 1����.bit�,bl.e struct�.xreY
�'='esterlund ; Yes sir.
Cot,rtney: Is it equipged :��it�. se�,v��e`?
�"esterli�nd : 1'es it i.s.
Courtney: Interesting.
Noise ----
Franrel : in ' F8, 2, 743, and in ' G�, 3, 769,
1�1an: ])oes the increase reflect the }�urchase of r,ore land.
Franzel. : ti'o, you did take all parcels tlle same . Y�ii've �;ot three
parcels of land for tliem? ('�ii.ke ans�vers =��sitivF�l,y)
Aian: I�e ' s not iricliidirig the ne�� �arcels he �jizst bni:��lit in t},e .�'��?5 ,��0?
:ltayor: IIe r�ade Iii.s osrn statement to that effect .
D1an: Don ' t you fi�ure tliat ' s a �,retty fair ta:� r��.te for any <.RS ,Onp
property? compared to l��t ' s say, to oiir ?�orr s`?
Noise---
?�ia��or: If he was selling it , wrhy it taToi:ild b�� different tizan if l�e �y�,s
buyin��,: it .
Noise---
F�enner: ','.'hen I asked about n�y r�ecent increase ].ast ye�,r on r�y taves ,
ttie assessor told me , ��rell }iotiv nli.zch dic� yoi� ���y for it, and t};at ' s titi�hat
you ' re r�oi.nb to �et ta<Yecl for, Th�t ' s �:��;i�+,t I S��as told,
:1layor: I thinl: that any of the property i n Orono, or arlynlace el.se no���,
accordin�; to oi.�r IIennepin Cot�nty �u��ervisor of assessors , is t;�sed �n tlie
oash valtze of tlte �,roperties that r:�l?at tl�ey �et for it. TY4e�; no fror:i t;l�ere ,
That ' s the �vay tljey dc�terrtine , tliat ' s the �eay tlzey cieterrii.ne in the Vi] l��;e
of Orono. Tlie,y give us a,n S;o raise overall t?ai s year, l�� c��.tise o��r as�essed
valuation �tiasn ' t up corres��onding to sa] es th�t tlre�r };«�d in Orono, �.nd
tliis is what tl�ey base tl�eir v�ilties on.
bian: I;o�r does an eigl�it per cent increase in t}?e valuation ec��.ia1 a 4�o
increase in tYie ta�: struct�are , I ' d lil�e to ];no�v the �,ns�-ver to tl��,t ,
?.iayor: 8 j�?
���Tape 2 �ape 3
3_24-6g Page l� Page 14 Page 1
End
;1lan: Does an eiglit per cent increase in va�u� ec��:al � ' ''�� increase in
the tax structure?
14layor: `�'ell , S�ou must consider the fact tl�at t};e �iil ] r��.te , ��.nd al.] t;he
different state and t�ie county, and tlie Villa:re and school distriet , it
all �vent up, ttie mill rates �vent up to rnal:e up tl;e difference . I tl�i.nl�
that pretty near anyr�ody ttlat ha,s tYieir val.uation fi.g�are do���n tE�ere from
last ,yc ar, if it ' s raised 8���, yo�.� can fi�ure it ' s t1�at rificl� }ri�her, but
the mill rate also raised, I don' t ltl�ow how rnzny mil.ls , �nd t';is is one
reason ��;hy I i;�as `�ri.nging out to AIr. Fruen here , �nd I t}ainl{ I�e ;�;ot me
�vrong, to ttie fact that ;���e ' re ,�oing to get into tlpis :�letropolita.n Se��er
Bill , or Southl°rest Se�rer �il.l , !ae ' ] l be �ssessed 1`' mil.ls on o�.�r taxc�s
before ��e even see a pipe , =tnd t[�is is one tt�in� that is of orea.t c�ncern
to tlais Council , and anybod,y el.se t?za.t ' s living in the area, T!le �nl.,y
reason tliat I mentioned tY:e f�ct tFaat cle�.ring un the 1akP �o f�r �.s the
se�vage is corcerned is not t��E entire ans���er t� tLie clear;Lnce of Lake
��iinnetocika for pollution. . , , T''�rd`?
�':'��rd Parten : '"'e ' re of co,�rse al.l concerned ���it�i tl�e incre�se o.f tl�e
dry dock systeri of storin� bo�.ts , btat I i��as j��st ����onderin� if ?�ir� I�:em�f
certainly is entitled to 1.50 - 175 boats in dry stora�e . , .
(1ir. Parten also c�uesl;i.ons �fr. I�orlc ' s Jo1-�,nson ;lfotor Francl�ise)
I:N�) OF TAYE - Piissed sc�;fie disetission
��'tiite}�ead : .. ilny t;rlidelines r�r stanclarcls , . , . c3o �-��, '+ave any s}�eci__f.'i_c
sugrYesti ons for trie Cot;ncil in t�iis instance`'
RIr. Jolznsan : ��re you ��dclressi.n� tllat c�i.lesti�n to nte or l�.Ir. (Cross?
�"lli.tetieacl : You , ��Ir. Gross yi��s a.lre�cly ;�ad I�is cllanc� .
Jo)uison : '''e].l , I tfaink, i,ir. "'13i.teliead , tlzat if �jie liad all �f tf�le
stanclards , tfiey ���oizld be llere . �";nd �::�l;at r;y requ<�st i� to t��e Cr�i.�nci_l ,
it seei;is to me , inview of tl�.e l�,teness of t}2e d�y on tt�e c�l.te>sti.on of
pollu�tion, that it behooves �,11 of us to do ev��ryt'�in� i1�� c�.n tn find
out �vhat t}�ose standards oug:�t,�t� be Y�efore �~�� take �ny �ior� a.ctic?n.
vo���, �;�r. I'ruen l:as indic�ted -#�, �»il.linci�ess ta contribizte effc�rt
to���ard this , anc� �pparently has tlze or�anization t}�_�t c�n )�el�, '°'rz�.t
t1�is group that I represent is enciorsing is Zet ' s sPend t��e �::�oriey to clo
it, let ' s put ev- rytt►ing aside r a year, and cio tl��e job i i�lat . I;c�t ' s
�et t e e���erts in here , and'�' study of the ]ake , <;.nd see !>�li�.t a] l
can be done, �,nd �.��liat tlpe concentration ought to be . `,"e have abnut six
or seven governmental bodies �vorlcinh right non� to try ��nd do tilis . I:et ' s
not try and outguess them. Let ' s give tx�em a chance to do t�le ,job, :�.nd
let ' s �vait at least anotYier year bef�re n�e take action.
`�-[ayor: ��I 've requested the Conser•vation, at one of t},ei r r,eetin��s , �.-'-�
rec�uested the Conservation, I rnade the remark any�vay, t}�a.t I��t s�e�- �
a sti;dy of lake '�:innetonlca and see ��}:ere t}�e poi lution is cor�i.ng f�om.
before ti��e do a lot of t1lin�s , a.nd reall.y !;nosz� r�ore �.bout it t;};�.n �-•e l�now
no�ti�.
�ian. in rear: In ans��;er to tliis �entl.e!,zen' s c:;uestion, t)�e.r�, i s one t�ii ng
that ' s ,�ositive , tlial; t'�e additior.al. ].oacl of 150 or `'_0'� hoats is not
goi.nh to co pliment tl�e si.t�zation �,s fa,r as nolliati.on is en��cerned .
T}iere ' s no ��ossitjle ivay. �'1nd t?;i.s gentler�an over her�e referr�d ta t`�is
��a� and the increase in boats �vith re��zrcls to the �tlzer r�=+ri.nas �n t��e
laiie . '"e ' alre�dy sai�� tt�is arz�le tased by the la�ryer in s��;zz1�; �ti�e had h4
last year, ancl in just a r�iatter of a s�lort ��eriod of ti.r..e t��e ' 1,]. D}ear t' is
��
3-21f-6� 1'a;e 18 Pape 2
g
lever again, if any sort of ���n �staY�].isl,�rient �:•��;lc� ��� a�'� lni•:�ed to �St��.'�i i,_:�?;
itself in :�iaxn�ell I3ay, tlnd it ' s a coT�irion Jever t}�at ' s ��sed.
A�i�.yor: Anybody Fl.se?
Lady in green dress : I ' d lilce to ask if ttsere is any fnr cleani.n�
of the xioats in storage , no��� tl�at •�:���,�ld 1�e `?2� '�,�a.1;s`'
SorReone : 171
I�ady: Nol.�, r,tost �f us �rtio l,,�ve �one 17�- tlie ���ari.nas tiave seen J�eo��l e
szrabbin� do«�n tlie decks and �hro«•ing tlaeir cleter�ent anc3 ���as'tinn of:t'
tlie k�oats completcly and t};ro�l�in� tlieir �letergent c�n into tile terater,
I 've seen that y�u 've �ot to a;fi.ve so!��e provi si on �m�h ti is �r��c.t pl an
to l�.eep t'�is detergent out of t}�e �v�ter, since it is a knn��,n {��terrent
to tlie lake , and the of t�e lake , i'e�;�J �� ���i t�, nerfectl.,y �ood
cirainfields and �ood ;,�e] ls are sus;;ect f�r cor�tarninating tx:e Jalce , t!�en
s���rel�- tllere sl�otild be sorrie ��rovi.si��n �?��a�ie f�r cl eani_ng "��o�t;s , I r��a�1c�
tl.in$.
�"esterlunc� : ' �e Z�i.11. t�e tyi �i�; i��totl�e e_;istin�r sanit�7rv ses��er �n t}�e pro?aertZT.
I�ady: `"el. l , �s�otald you be r�i�llin� the boats up on tl�e �ropertv t.;�lEen ,yoiz
di.d this?
'"esterl�.�nd : YE;s
� ��
I,ady: Fvery��oat ��ill k�e ��ulled up olit of tY�e ��at;er ��nd �v���1d be talien
c.�re of i.n Sl�rt �f a pit arran�ement`?
`�'esterll.incl : The sm�.11 zxboats , but the l�ig:;er r�o�ts . , .
La,c�y: ',"'ell , I 'm tall:ing about tl;e l►ig ones--they' have �-�ore cl tergent
than otliers .
Dlayor: !`re }iave quite �.n ayenda Y�ere , b�tt �4e �a�a��t to }iere anybody tl�,j.t
�rants to r�alce �, corn=ltent on tl�is particul�r issue that �ve h�ve .
Bruce Nicolle : Can ���e ho fro��� �:Ia��:���ell I3ay to Pro�i�n ' s l3ay?
111ayor: I �vantto say ti�i.s , that as far as the �'iJ ].�>>e of Orono is
coneerned, in setting up rehizlations on t is tl; i.nj�, �:r'..i cl� tl�i s Council
is ?�iore t}�an concerned �ritl�, �ve liave fotind tl�at �],l. ov�r t' is 1�r1io).e
state �hat ��re t�ave nottiin� ver,y r�nch to ;o on, and �ve ' re ;j ��5t �-etti.ng
i_rito it ri�,lit notiti�. All tliese or�a,nization are �;etting into the sti�dy
of �ollution �nd one tl�in� �,nd anothcr on all tt�e lakes , and Orono has
set u;•� restrictions no�,-, �s far as t}�e l.�c�y tl�ere ��r��s tal ' ing abo��t
cleaninc t:�o��ts , I don ' t tliinlf she meant tl�e c],e�nin�, or if ttiey h:�ve
a cruiser, o� if ttley 1?ave f�cilities in ther�e , ���e demand t11a,t o>>r ����rina
people l�iave places to P�_�r�p t5;is oi��t ����nd on� t?��i_ng and �noth�r, �.;�►��ici�� is
not very comnon ar�oi�nd }�ere--s�r�,e of t1�em lzave it , i�l�t not ver,y r�any.
Nicolle : �'ot�r' re spealcing rio�j� of r�� ad r�i�r�fi�in; , ref��se , ��.ncl tllin�s . :�i,y
name is }�ruce tiicolle , I ' m �rith Peed ' s , Inc. , in �`'ayzata, and T�oh I?olm�ran
ivanted to be here , hut he re�rets ttaat he can ' t , IIe ' s as1�Pd �ne to c�*�se
and discues the Orono situation �vitt� you gentlemen, if I ;�iay, ��'hat I 'm
asking is , am I premature in .�;o � ng from Dtaxwell T3ay to Bro��n' s T�ay?
Someone : :t1a:c���e11. �ay is broYvn. ( lau�hter)
�� � Tape 3
3-24-6� Pa�;e 1� Page 3
Nicol.le : `y'liat �ve hR�.ve ��c-�rle , �ent] ���en, is ���k a]_so for ��a��� al�n ���T�e
eYpanded mooring ancl bert}iing facilities , for our sail ��oats , ��rirr:ari ly.
t";'e are in the sailboat business , liotors «-e ]•�no��T little or nnttaing ab��i�t .
l,ast year �„re leased the property o�vned b,y tr�e peo�le ��,�i.tl: '.[a,c ' s I'izz�,
and moored a nur�►her of l�oats , I l�< ]ieve it �,�.�as , o}i ;ns}i , I ctori ' t even
lsno��r, I �v��;ld �;uess at 2n_sor�e odd ,.�oorintis , "�e no�v anticinate leG��ir��
some aciditional land, alongside the ?�.a.c ' s I'izza area, for additional
sailboat facilities , I thinli �xrl��at `.tr. I;olm�ren ��roposed, ����:�. at ane
of your earlier ��ieetings , �ti�as t;tiat ?:e ���as �ro,jeetin; an ae�ditioi�a] 52
posi tions adjacent to a doclz k��.ailt oz�t fr���: ��roperty oirned by a r�:1r.
L:el�tinen, and to be leased bv ourse).ves for t` is sai] boa.t facility,
Franzel : Is that on trie ���itl�i end of �a•t�z�re ��oia ' re �?reseiltl.,y lncated?
Nicolle : That ' s correct .
Franzel : Incide,�tally, ttiat is not zoned co,���ercial , t�,at � s zoned
residential tl,ere .
Gerry Ross : It ' s the ot}ier �vay, ;iick , it ' s ttie ot�:� r �ray.
Frarizel. : 0]�a,y, o}cay. �'ot.� ' re going to«ards the Y�oat�vorl�s over there ,
\Ticolle : �rh�t ' s correct . ''e ar�� about , I ttiink in e-:cess of , a tF�oi.asa.nd
feet from an,yt?:ing , uh, any resic3ential �rea, and indeed , �ti�e re ,�ning
the otr:er direction, on Coitty ��.Road 15 . '"'l�at --�e are a:;hi �z� for, �s I
mentioned earlier, �,��c�t.�ld be tl�ese 52 positions on tl;� s ��rojected dock,
coming out fram t'�is are� right liere. In acldition , too, our present 22 ,
'•�'e a] so are a�l:in� for an additioi�al 6 moorin�s �n the �t�.c ' s pro{�erty
tlia� ���e are al.so leasing, alon,� �ri.t?; l� �:':ore positions , !''i txi .re�ard
to parking, in our e..isting area, :�;re t��ve ��_��ci] itieq for u� spares t}a�t
�re numbered off last �Tear, and }�ung sicns so tl�at �;he ?�eo;�le �vf�o G�re
using t�iese i�:ot�rings �rill have a ���ace to pa,rlc tl,eir car, ��.nd �.�e dnr� ' t
}irive anv congesi;ion tl�iere . ''e alse� are ;:>rojecting a.1�oi�t 1+0 n�r?:in� spots
in the nevv projected area t1�at �ve ' re hopine to leasc� fror?Z t',e I.e'.ti:len ,
��'e ������i:ild als� ]_ il�e sor��e sort of a service docl� �n tl�E: ne�ti� ].� ased pro�erty,
just si.�,,�ly to service t}�ese sailboai;s . It doesn ' t am��lnt t� r,lotor
repairin�;s or �.nytt?in� l.ike tl�at . '�''.'e � r� not ta' ]:i n7 aho�it 1'l1G'1 d�:3�osa ts
on tYie �j�aters , t�ecause obvioi,isly tlie ��ria�za.ry ��o!�-er of t',;ese hoats is s�ail ,
hlan�- of tiier�i do carry a si�iall three—lzorse o�zt►�oard , or sma)_.�_er, as �.t.�:�:iliary
poti��er. '"e ' d lilie to enipllasize the f�.ct th��t �,-e did, indeed, - al;_e qtaite
an atten���t to keep tk�e propert�- tlsat �ve ���ere leasing last ,year in �o�d
physical coriditio�a. !"e policed it reg?ilarly, � �: �t-e � , , and
��e intend to e�pand t�ia.t pol ice 1}�or]•� ;ith �ur on�n f�ers�nsze] , si��ply
picicin� up and mal�in� refuse cans ��.vailable , and lrhntnot for �eo��7e ���l�o
afe usirig t}iose tnoorin� facilities .
(nlr. Lelitinen joins i�{r. Nicolle up front) I 'r;i ?eith ,yota, I '3�� Jack
Lehtinen. ITere ' s �, picti�re of the area itself. �'or:�, ��:•4�at I l�i-�ve done
l�ere , in tlie past t[iis bui.lclin�; tool� u�.� t is �v'.;o1F lot , no��T t a.s bui.lc'ing
took 12 pa,rlcing places �i��ila,y from t}ze ovc�r�].1 parki n� area. NoEv, in
tearinh ti:is cio�i�n and ;�;etting a�ti�ay f'rom the com�eti.ng b�zsiness , I �i<�ve
picl:ed up 12 parl�ing places , ,�lias tl,is entire 1ot, �To�;, t°:is is «�hy,
I t;+inlc in the past, tl;e �rohlerr. ���it1� tf;is area, a.s yoia c�n see , there
are no nei"f�bors , t' i.s is �11 cornmercial }iere , and tE.is cioesn ' t �v�n �l;o«�
on Tanager, �yl�icki is �•w�ay �ut i.n t: is ar� t��ere arr: on7v vc�r;� ].irited
numbers of people tiere . Tl�e congestion �s�as in tra.ffic, in tl�e ,��rl.ing
itself. I i'eel tlzat Alax��.�ell I3a,y i�ould have �. ni�ni�i��r of x�oat no1l�.ation,
m�,yl�e noise pollution, l�ut in our cas�- , i_t �s�: s a �arlcing ��rol�l.em, d�}iich
I feel �.�>e 've alleviated by teering doivn t` i.� stri,►cture . :1nd I ' na als� �oi.ng
>�e''�'� T ap e 3
3-24-69 Page 20 Page 4
to buy a piece of property here , that was formerly part of the property,
in the event that it is necessary. Also, in the P�anning Commission, thyey
indicated that there is going to be a need, and they indicated that the
ideal spot would be Tanager. Tanager is unique on the lake in that it is
the only small body of water immediately adjacent to property that is not
really useable . Maxwell Bay empties from Stubbs Bay into ( `? ) ,
but in the case of Tanager, it really is too small for people to do any-
thing with. You just go from Tanager into Browns �ay. . .
(�veryone talking)
Niayor raps for order.
Mayor: . . .wedetermine these requestsalong with the rest of it--I think
we have ttiose in our requests for bot.h these gentlemen , so . . .
Lehtinen : The only change here , this is my property, and this «ill be
all parking here. And I am also going to buy this property here--I
own the Browns ' Bay side already.
hiayor: This particular place do�an there is such a congested area, ev�n
on the road, that addin� any more cars in there . . , without even thinking
about boats . 1i'e have a double prablem there , when �ve ' re discus�ing that
particular area.
�-ehtinen: �ell , it ' s been a very poor operation in the past, but I don ' t
intend to run it that way. I feel there ' s no reason why there should be
that much congestion there , if somebody is taking. . .
b-iayor; jVell , when the road goes throuch the way it is , and the traffie
we havc: on 15 through there , we ' d have a congestion there if we didn � t
have any bo�ts . . . �6re realize this . Do you have any more questions on this?
Franzel : That answe�s my c�uF�stions , yes .
Mayor: Does anybody else now have anyttaing on this problem ?
bian in brown tweed jacket : I ' d just like to say that we would object to
on the same grounds as the other marinas . I mean, this congestion is just
being multiplied on every turn of the road, her� . Once again, this operation,
they don' t have any room to operate on. If you drive 15 a littl� bit,
like I do every day of the week, and people crossing the road, it ' s a
miracle that no one gets killed, but yet, you go through their slowly,
and it ' s all right , but nevertheless , to add another whatever it is--
it seems to me it ' s just absolutely uncalled for. They should arrange
some other way to t�a.ke care of these boats and get an area where they' re
not having to cross a busy highway that has a traffic count of g,000 a day,
an average traffic count on that road, which means it ' s a pretty busy
piece—of hig}i�vay to be in people dashing across , park their cars on one
side , and run across the road.
Lehtinen�: That will be changed--there ' s going to be ;�arki.ng on both
sides now. They �von ' t have to cross the road.
Man : I don ' t know where� the land ��mng to come from. . . . . .
hiayor: �'e know that we have a double problem down h�re , an aecaunt of
where the highway is in this particular place , it ' s a probl.em «ithout
anything there, and now this ��vill just be adding this much more .
�-�G' Tape 3
3-24-69 Page 21 Page �
Lehtinen: �
8K��3��: Could I ask 114r. Johnson one question, as a spokesman for the
voting people? Ho yoiz have meeting� of these 40 people? You, as a group,
you have decided on certain things?
Johnson: Are you aslting me , or suggesting?
Lehtinen: I 'm asking you.
Johnson: Well , �vhat ' s the question?
Lehtinen: �j'ell , I just want to know, is this a group? You didn ' t go and
make a petition person by persori, you had met as a group?
Johnson : Yes
Lehtinen : I see. Fiave you as a group made any provisions amongst
yourselves to cut ciown the number of boats , say, and limit yourself to
one boat . Have you done that at all`?
Johnson: ?�'ell , we 've considered. . .
Lehtinen: You haven ' t, tl�ough, as yet.
Johnson: I only ha�re one .
Lehtinen: You only have one , but as a group, you have no idea--you could
have a �riend who had four boats , isn' t that correct?
NOISE
What I 'm saying is that in his statement , he indicated that marinas have
boats , and ot;her people have boats, but he never said that he and his
friends also have boats , and they are mal�ing no effort amongst themselves
to limit the number of boats . He is indicating he wou�d like other
people to keep off the lake , but he never once mentioned that they as a
group, . . . . . NOISE
Franzel : There ' s a good point , just a minute here .
l�ayor: Our attorney has some remarks as to his comments .
�hitehead: Chapter 74 of the ordinance requires that any group or
association of persons more than two that docl: togFther have to have a
license from the Council , wt�ich includes if you ' re running out or loading,
or whatever, with nsore than one friend on your o�vn pe sonal doc�, you
have to have a license .
Lehtinen: But if you had three or four in yot.r family, you could h�:ve
those . You could have five people off your private dock.
�hitehead : Yes , but I ,just v�anted to clea.r up the point . . . .
Lehtinen�: j�'hat I 'm trying to get at is this , if you are trying to
limit total numbers of boa�s , you also have to take into consideration. . ,
�'hitehead : I �m not responding to that .point.
Lehtinena: �!�'el). , this is what T 'm bringing up.
Johnson: Mr. Agayor, may I answer the Co«ncil on that uestion. A couple
of points--I particularly do not wish to get into a � ? ) here
on the floor, but I would like to make the point that everything I have
said with respect to the marina operation or the need for study and delay
applies with equal force to Bror�ns Bay and Tan�ger Lake as it does in
`�-�� TaL,e 3
3-24-69 Page 22 Page �
��axwell Bay and Stubbs Bay. One need only look at Tanager Lalce in the
summer, and recognize the problem over there . At Brosvns Bay, any of i.is
�vho drive back and forth know what those peoblems are , In sofar as boats
and use of the lake are concerned, i� after the study is made and in
and the judgement is that hoats have to be limited, �re ' re prepared to
limit out bo�,ts , along with everybody else . But our point is , let ' s not
rush into this thingg pell mell and put 10,000 boats on the lake , because
tomorrow we may be required to not have 10,000 boats on the lalce . Other
areas have had to do this . In Minneapolis they have no boats on the lake .
Now i� the judgement of the body who has made the stizdy is that there «ill
be no boats , then our boats �vill have to go, But let ' s make the study
first, not afterwards .
APPLAUSE.
�Ierm Renner: In response to your answer, as far as boats go, we 've gone
further than that , �ve 've eliminated the docks which were not necessary
in our neighborhood. �Ve 've combined docks �shere we thought, where
originally each had a dock, now we 've combnned �a�k$���x�x��x���a�i��
�as� and cut our doekaae virtually in half. Now we ' d like to see the
rest of the dockage go. I ' d like to see this Council pass an ordinanee
sometime that no dock be longer than 50 feet , I don ' t care ��vhere it is ,
becau:� e that water and property does not belong to whoever is putting the
dock in there , he ' s using it . fIe ' s entitle to reas�nablP access and
usage , but vahat you ' re proposing with your sailboats , the problem here ,
is some more profit-making public property. No m�re than the marina
operators , it ' s identically the same thing. The sailboats moorings take
up a lot more space than the marinas took up. ( ? )
Your' re taking . . .
Aiayor: Address your remarks to the Council , up here . 1�Te don ' t �vant tl.is
argur;ient back and forth between the different peo�le. 14iarc�,you 've got
sometYiing?
D�arc� Yes , I�ir. Nicole , I 'd like to put the same questi.on to you as I did
to hir. Gross , and to I�ir. Johnson, that is , have you come tonight with
any su��estions , cretbeia or standards , by which the Council could judge
the facts that have been put before t}�em on these various applications?
Nicole : No, I don ' t have any facts or figures , I think that I 'm becaming
confused as to why and why not this should or should not be allowed. Is
it with regard to pollution, or i� it with regard to parking space? I 'm
sort of coming in at the middle , and. . .
�i'hitehead : Each application has its own peculiar problems , and the
individual needs and problems of the marina operator, and the loc�tion.
Your biggest problems happen to be traffic, now someone else ' s might
happen to be boat congestion. �'hat I 'm asking about is in terms of overall
standards . There ' s obviously a difference . As an example , if the Council.
were to determine that I��iaxwell 8ay has 300 acres , if the Council �vas to
adopt as a standard that for every acre of water there should only be 14
commercial docks , that might apply to Niaxwell Bay, but you can certainly
see that it w��ld not apply in Browns Bay, . . . . . . ? . . . .Lake , so ��hat
I 'm trying to do is , I think, illustrate �rimarily to the people who �.re
here tonioht , the� very ( ? ) problems facing t��is Council . . . . .
Any su�gestions for standards that would apply to any of the marinas ,
and �a��ti�ia��x in addition, it ' s very difficult to s��t a set of standards
that might appby to one area, but not to another area. �nd. . ,
�.�� Tape 3
3-24-69 Page 23 Page 7
Nicole : I think r�hat I 'm trying to make available is mooring facilities ,
obviously, for people with sailboats . I don ' t thinl: that by telling them
we don ' t have mooring facilities that we ' re going to stop them from coming,
and as the gentleman from the `�ater Patrol mentioned, there are numerous
public launching ramps , whereby the transient boater can certainly put his
boat in and sail or power, or do whatever he wishes .
1�'hitehead; That ' s a valid point , but �a� two wrongs don ' t make a right,
either.
r4an in rear: I�d like to make a comment with respect to b2r. �Vhitehead ' s
statement that nobody has come with any specific proposals tonight, or
any specifie standards , well , the problem is that most everybody agrees ,
that the standards haven ' t been set , and the only proposal so far tonight
has been the one to hold everything in abeyance until we havesome standards
that �vill govern and guide us in the application of these prinei.pa.ls .
bir. Gross
���I��FX�E�£�: Can I �sk R�r. «hitehead if there are any standards or
limitations on the public launching. Can you, or do you, limit the
number of boats?
�Phitehead : Th� �ould not be within the Council ' s jurisdiction, that ' s . . .
Gross : Is that a statewide , or a county�vide situtation?
�'l�itehead: I don ' t think there are any, Bert.
Niayor: �Ve felt sure by tl�is time of year th�.t the Conserv�ti on Dept .
would come up with some standards . Actually, we probably �verr expecting
too much from the Conservation Dept . , that ' s the Lake �iinnetonka Conser—
vation Dept . , as they ,just was organized, they didn ' t have money to
operate with, and they didn ' t come up �ith any standards that KTe ' d like
to see tgem come up wit�. t�nd as the gentlemen say here , they' re
recommending that we hold off until we get so�e standards . �sr. Kieran?
Kieran : 3��t ?��iayor, I wonder if I could make a suggestion, you peol�le
here are concerned about the very thing that the people are against,
apparently at this moment , ? do a lot to improve. �hy can ' t we all
get together and work this thing out? �'Pe � re not going to do it by
ourselves , it ' s going to be a state or a county operation, aaybe the
federal government . �hy don' t we start now, and try to bring up the
facts connected with this . `�'e ' re all trying to figure out , that the
boat i ( ? ) , andin actual truth, this man said before he left,
that better than 750 of the pollutants of the lake is not coming from
boaters , it ' s coming from your septic systems . No�v �vhy in the world can ' t
the people in this Village 'et together and at I.east allow us--we 've
been suppressed--the people that are �vor:iing with the voting public--
we gaven' t got the facilities that we want, we 've been held back. PJhy
don' t we get together as a ferce , to eliminate the pro?�lem, and not dicker
back and forth. I brought this up once before , and nothing happened.
Thank you.
Youngish man in second row: I ' d like to direct a question to the Council
about , I gather from all this diecussion he�e there aj�e various interest
groups around the lake , both private and political , trying to do various
tt�in�s , especially private ones that have contributed money among them—
selves to do things , I knotiv of several situations �vhere groups of
residents , without any kind of organization, simply go door to door to
gather money for to get enough copper sulfate for a temporary measi.ire to
treat�xssxR a bay, as was done in the �vestern p�irt of the l.alce on +�ccaston,
..�,�.�:� � Ta�e 3
3-24-69 Page 24 Page 8
with the approval and guidance oY the Conservation Dept. I understand,
who has to review it, regulate it so that there ' s not too much ? .
This has been done by private people . Have any of our commercial groups
gotten together and said "gee , this is a great idea"
Perhaps we should get to�ether �nd pool our resources and do something
constructive .
I�iayor: Your' re talking about treating water. They do, in some areas .
In some bays they treat tl�e water, but it ' s subject �o the conservation
people , the water people . The3� don ' t thinli that this is any permanent
remedy, whatsoever.
Man: I wasn ' t sugbest;ing that . I was simply using it as an evidence
that people have actually made a step or a contribution, and I �ras
wondering if the commercial enterprises have t�a.ken or made this contribution
amongst themselves . I don' t know. I was just addressing the Council if
they would know of a situation.
Mayor: Somebody else , here?
1�1r. Kieran : I could answer this question. I don' t kno�v w.hat the
contribution has been, but I do knov� that it has been offered, and I
know of some people who have been out there on snowmobiles as clean—up
crews of what the debris might be on the ice . I do know tha� some of
the commercial ventures did contribute to the cost and also spreading
materials in the water. I was of the understanding, too, that it was
a temporary r�easure. It �vas not . . . . . . By the same token, I believe
that liis point is that there could be an organized effort to work together.
There ' s no point the neighbors of these different marina operations to feel
as they do. There ' s been a big, big misunderstanding that can be settled
easily enough, �e can get the aid that �ve need. I am firmly convinced
that Minnetonka is not a local deal , a deal that must be settled by a local
authority. It ' s going to have b��[ t,o be the CoLinty at least, the State ,
probably.
I�iayor: �'�e realize this .
Nicole : I think, if I may sum up with regard to ot�r particular situation,
if I can get back to that. I think our situation has not necessarily anytiing
to do with pollution. Perhaps the question is , do we have parking facilities
for the numbers of permits we ' re asking for. I believe we will have . I
believe ttiey' ll all be on the same side of the street, as will Mr. Lehtinen ' s
be on the other side of the street . i�'e 've done a great job in policing and
cleaning up that area, to this day. There ' s a large j�ody of water there
in Brown' s Bay, It opens out into the entiee lake , and I don ' t believe
we ' re infringing on any private parties ground, so to speak. I 'm sure
you' ll give this some serious consideration. I thank you for your time.
hiayor: Anybody else on this? ��e want to get along tivith the a�enda here .
Whitehead : I just have a couple of conclrisions . F3ert, you don' t represent
Gayle ' s or anybody else, right? In Hork' s last law s�ait , ax� ,you made the
argument that the adjoining marinas had been granted an increase in slips ;
therefore you ought to have them. (Gross says that ' s right) Now would
tha.t same argument apply if you were to be granted an increase? fihat r..Foth
Gayle ' s and Dir. Iiempi here would be able to come in and say they were
enti�led to an increase?
�, � � Ta�e 3
Page g
3-24-69 Page 25
Gross : The court turned us down on that one . The court said that we
couldn' t get an increase because of what others were doing, and v�e were
left �vith what we had in previous years .
�Yhitehead: That possibly is what they said, but on the other hand, I
wasn' t that clear ab�ut that. But you wo�ld say, then. . .
Gross : That was my impression.
j'"hitehead : You haven ' t talked to Ga.�le ' s marina or �l4r. Kempf about t?:is
particular.point. . .
Gross : No.
Whitehead : You reco�nize that vaill be a problem.
Gross : Yah, but they don' t have as much land as 1ve do. I don ' t know
how the 'rrs �vould fit on the land. I don' t know anyt�:ing about their
marinas.
`�l�itehead: Ase you suggesting we regulate the number of r,oa,t slips a.nd
boat docks in terms of land acreage? As a standard.
Gross : I don ' t think we can. I don' t think you can right now, with the
authIIrity you have .
Whitehead : Is it Hork' s position that there is no problem of boat
congestion on that bay`? �ould that be your position.
Gross : I think there ' s a problem of boat congestion on Lake A�innetonka,
No question about it.
I�VYiitehead : Do you deny that there ' s maybe a particular problem in that
bay.
Gross : I don' t think it ' s any worse than any others . I don' t know--maybe
it is . There was some evidence broi.�ght tzp in some of the law suits about
boat congestion, but the evidence was so inconclusive as to the actual
amount of congestion that it wasn ' t given any force by the court .
Whitehead : Have the three of you ever diseussed the possibility of
some sort of combined plan where the three of you have enough docks so
that you all h��ve an attractive operation, but yet we don ' t hav� to go
through this every year. Has that eve � been disciassed amongst the three
of you. For instance , everyone gets 95, and everybody runs a nice , profitable
operation4
Gross : Well , we ' d be willing to go along with that--95 in the water---
it ' s never been discussed, no. I don ' t know--tYiey' re con�petitors.
�fiY�itehead : Last fall there was a problem at Gayle ' s and the �iinnetonka
Conservation District had a committee discass this problem. It is my
understanding that none of the three marinas on 14faxwel ] }3ay ever participated
in any discussions or any of the committee meetings regarding the problem
of the regulation of the boa.t a�arinas on the lake . I think that ' s true of
your point, isn ' t it?
Gross : I don � t know. I don ' t know.
P"_ -� �
Tape 3
Page 10
3-24-69 Page 26
1'Phitehead ; You weren ' t his legal advisor at t: e time ti is .
Gross : No
��hitehead: You know thatr�either the marina operators themselves nor the
Conservation District came up with any proposals to help this Council in
their deliberation today.
Gross : No, not htat he told me , but I
t9hitehead : Neither did anybody else . . ,
Gross : It ' s not an easy problem. The automobile problem isn ' t an easy
problem, either.
Niayor: I think we ' ll conclLgde this now--the lady baek there?
Mrs . �ard Parten: If the b��ilding permit is granted,and then fc�r some
reason they decide there coldn' t be any boats, or if they limited the
number of boats r:iaybe do«rn to 20 slips on the bay, or 20 slips for Mr,
Hork, �hat would he do with the building afte � he ' s got it built--this
great big building`?
����t BACKGROUh'D NOISE AND LAUGIITER
Mayor, rapping for order: I think we ' ll concjude that. Just a minute--
hir. Franzel.
Franzel : I think I would like to make a little summation, because I have
been involved in this marina consideration and this ��roblem that certainly
has been very serious for quite a period of time , I think some of the
statements to the faet that �vay back some of these things h�ve be��n pointed
out is quite true , and this is a serious problem. Now, I �ould like to
say this at the basic start here . I think the fact that Lake Atinnetonka
is in trouble is a fact that is not go �ng to be disputed by anybody here
tonight. I think also if we as respon�ible citizens are going ta be able
to come up �ith some judgement and some logic, we h��ve to take a look at
not just one little isolated spot. �e 've got to look a little bit broader.
Now, for example, and I 'm not saying this in any way against the state
conservation department or the state health department, but I think the
conditions and the realizatian of the seriousness of this problem has
changed the outlook of quite a few people , and when I say people, I mean
the experts in this area. ��or example , in 1963 the concerned state agencies
gave Orono and other communities approval to put their a�iluent into the
lake . I was stated this was all righ t to do, and it was done . Now, they
have completely reversed, and as you know, they will not permit any more
plants to be built on the lake , and there must be a time limit as to how
long the present ones will be able to put the affluent into the lake .
Now, I don ' t this one fact in itself makes the ��g whole proof, one way
or the other, but I think the point is here that ice 've got a serious
problem that is extremely critical , and this is only symptomatic, I think,
of one of the signs that point to it. Now, the second one is that there
will not be any new facilities of that type permitted in any way, shape,
or form. Also, as I think you all kno�v, and was mentioned here tonight,
that the red or pink algae has been noticed on the lake , and the experts
point out to us that this is an extremely serious sign. Now, I don ' t think
we can isolate the se�ver, the lawn fertilizer, the boats , or any one group
saying this is the cause of it alon�. It certainly is a conglomeration of
�,-tL �-
Tape 3
3-24-69 Yage 2'7 Page 11
these things that ��ork together, but the point is , wn 've got a sick
lake . And I think we have to recognize it. Now, obvioizsly, congested
use of the lake in these areas will all contribute to it, because that ' s
the way it became this way. li'hen the Indians were l.iving bac$ here they
didn ' t have this kind of a problem. No�v, also, turning just a little to
A4axwe1l Bay. I think without question anybody looking at this situation
there , and we have a map that is laid out into here , that ' s a lake that
t�as some 300 acres of water on it . It has some 3. 36 miles of shoreline,
a very small lake , and it ' s a very shallow lake . Now, we are talking ak�oizt
a concentration of boats . At present there are some 3�0 commercial docks,
or boat slips, and aboizt 40 residential . This is a v�°ry high congesti.on,
in fact it is the highest congestion in the whole lake area here . Now,
I tt�ink also, recognizing that the experts tt�at havF worked into ti�is
area. . . I 've talked to a fair number of these in the past, and then more
recently ,just these last few weeks in here . For example, the Lake
Minnetonka Conservation I)istrict . They started out to give some basic
guidelines . For example, on lake usage , and as they began to study it ,
they found the complexity and the problems , and the many sides that have
to be considered, such that they were not able to come up with their
direct answer. I think t;;is is some what the same that up on the h�ississippi
River Northern States Power has a plant already built up there . The
e�perts are still not �ble to agree completely �vhat should be done to
some of the contamination that �vould come from there. But I think there
are signs and considerations pointing to how serious these things are.
�t'ell , now, I think the fact that the Lake A4innetonka Conservation District
has not been able to come up at this point is part of the recognition
of the complexity of this problem. And I think herf� , as a Councilman
tr�ing to represent Orono, and trying to read the minds of these experts
and take the information available , because certainly I do not consider
myself an expert in the�s situ�tion of the lake . I happen to be an
engineer, but I 'm not in that field. I also recognize that in building
up facts to try and make a so�:nd deci�ion that will have some logic
behind it, has to be based on some factual information. �1nd I tr:ink
another point that shorvs the significance of how badly is needed some of
these facts is pure and simple , look at the �iiological Lab, the new one
that is just no�a being formed. �Iere aga,in is another body that certainly
can offer some very significant information, and I think here again
forthcoming will be data that will help make logieal decisions . Now, we ' ve
had experts tell us, for example , that the first top inch, and you 've
heard this , I 'm sure--tY�e first top inch layer at the bo�tom of the lake
contains nutrient equal to about 60 years of the annual input that we
make of nutrients��"our lake here today. T1�is has been made by one of
the e�perts , hirs. Hill , �ho I think you ' 11 recognize as being quite
knowledgeable in t►:is area. I�'ow, the increased use of the lake is only
logical at this point. It ' s the large body of water n�ar a large
metropolitan area. Orono itseif has a popi�lation of some , arout 6, 500
at this point. In 1985 there are estimates that we will havF� a po}�ulation
of 15,800, and by the year 2000, possibly as high as �4,000. SVell , I
think that we are not doing out job if we do not consider what tl�is means
into the future . �ie can certa.inly look at some of the othe.r areas . Take
for example, Aiinneapolis. Basically no docking is permitted , except by
strict control of the Village . No even prvate land is available ti�ere .
�'ell now, I think on our lake here , that we must rec�ni,�ze the implication
and I thinli here , and I 'm not trying to make any judgements , because I am
trying to gather facts , for example , I talked to Dr. John '�ioyle at the
Conservatkon Department, that reco�nizes some of these problems . And he ' s
been relating to me , not only here and now, but a little bit into the
future , and Dick Gray, who certainly has done a �reat deal of research in
this light, again �ipinting up, let ' s be reasonable in �vhat we do at this point
���6
Tape 3
Page 12
3-24-69 Paye 28
here , let ' s find out some of these Yacts . �1nd, of course , Don Fruen, that
was here , and also Jerome Kuhn, from the Conservation I)epartment . Another
one that has warned, in fact he gave me a real heartbeat t,ype of a pitch,
into terms of use of the lake in here . And sure , eac�� commercial interest,
and each one by and of itself c�n sound ver�� nice , and I am trying to
gather more facts in terms of trying to make a reasonable type of a c3ecision ,
but I also feel that this has to be looked �t at the total picture. I
know the old cry of sa.ying give me what I want right now, and then we ' l1
let the rest take care of it a little bit later. Now, I think �ve 've got
to be sure that we are not moved from one spot to another by just that
consideration, because certainly some one family could r�zn their raw
sewage into the lake , and this probably wou�d not even be deteeted, �znless
yoiz measured right in front, but when we start having 34,000 people around
here , it ' s obvioud that that ' s not possible . So I think that we can' t
look at any one situation and say I 'm only increasing t}iis a l � ttle bit .
I think the signs of distress and tragedy on the ��ke are here right now.
And I think we had better step back to take a real serious look as to what
this means , and this is what I am trying to do, is to gath�r the facts ,
and of course we will have to give an answer in terms of the situation here,
and I 'm not trying to prejudge that at this point, but I ' d ce , tainly say
�vith the facts I have gathered, it certainly shows a seriousness of this.
And I think that certainly we recognize the commercial aspects of it--that ' s
very important, but I think also, we 've got to l.00k at the total use of
the lake , and what this brings and means towa.rds the future . So I only
want to say that in terms of what I feel is extremely important in making
a logical and reasonable type of decision as to �vhat is done . And I
tYlink the facts to date point one �vay clear--that it ' s in serious trotable ,
and I think now we 've got to take some action that is going to be rea—
sonable and ho�v do we deal with t}ris for some guidance into the fi�ttzre?
APPLAUSE
Kaye �esterlund: Just one question. There ' s be� n a great deal of talk
here �bout boats and increased traffic. Has anybody checked into the
amount of damage that is being done to the lake by the residents ar�nund
the lake , due to bad septic systems and things of that nature?
Franzel : In fact , tha.t ' s a very good question, Ne just passed an
ordinarice that requires mandatory hookups on our sewer lines al � the
v�ay through where the se�er is available , here , and any viol�tion, and
�qe are making checks , and there are some that are t�eing served in that
direction, for example , not too long ago there had to be a septie system
sealed because it wasn ' t high enou�h above the water. And I think ti�is
is something that we as a Village have to be extremely careful about �
in enforc ' , and the answer is yes , we ' re taking positive steps . !�'e 've
got a;+ t�me element for ever3�body to hook up tha.t ' s on the sewer
line right now.
�Testerlund : 1x'hat do you do in the event--the one that was sealed off--
what hal�pens with that , is the residencejust closed, , .
Franzel : No, what I mean se�led up, they were not high enough ��a��x�
above the water to get a good drainfield , so they had to put in a large
tank, and then it has to be pumped periodically so there is nothing that
is drained into the surrounding territoryl and tliis I think is on�y
logigal , and even though it ' s expeasive , the point is that if �e ' re go�ng
to protect what we 've got here , I think we can' t permit people . . . I lcnow
as one party pointed out , "Gee , I never have a bit of ���x�� trouble �sith
' ���
' Tape 3
Page 13
3-24-69 Page 29
my septic system, why my drainfield works ��erfectly, " and I h�d him just
dig a hole a foot and a half deep, and the lake water ran;`�and I just told
him, well �hat do you think happens if you pour a pail. of �rater in he e--
it runs right out again. And we 've got to, I think, do that , and this ����e
are taking positive action.
�licole : Tkian can we assume that you' re not ,just s�ying it ' s the boater� ,
or the boating, whether they be transient people , or marina people , or
whoever they might be . They are not the only problem, right?
Franzel : Absolutely. I trpink the total lake has to be looked at as a
cor�plete �icture , and each has his contribution, and then, I think we 've
got to consider and make eontributions on that basis .
Mayor: I think that ' s one reason why I talked about the sewer problem
we have all over the lake , and taking the sewage away from the ?ake ,
because we kno�s it ' s an overall problem. �!'e know we have a prorlem,
I 'm not convinced that any one partic��lar thing is polluting the lake,
but something is polluting it, and it should be studied, even if it costs
a lot of money, it should be stizdied until we find out . �Ve oug'?:t to
get al.ong v�ith the meeting.
Westerlund: Just one rnore point. During the planning commission meeting
it was suggested also that the Conservation Departrnent, and i forget ho�v
many others agancies being contacted to get some assistance or some infor-
mation by the time of this Council r�eeting. Has anybody contacted them,
or do you have any information?
biayor: Our member on the conservation. . . As you know, the Conservation
Department, Lake hiinnetonka Conservation, is set up of inembers around the
lake appointed people . �1'e have one memher--bir. Searles is our representative
and he ' s been in contact witYi them, and vaill be again this week, whe.n he
gets back,
Franzel : I 've talked to two, by the way, members of the Conservation
District , just today, in fact , and last week, too.
�esterlund : Did they come up with any. . . I think there �vere sol�:e other
agencies that were supposed to be involved.
Franzel : The V�atershed District , yes. . .
�'esterlund : Did they come up wi�h any kind of. . .
Fr�neel : This is the whole point--that they feel that the magnitude of
the problem does not permit, with this limited knowled�e , to conie out
directly with that right at this point, and that ' s why they feel there is
more information needed to make an intelligent decision.
1�hitehead : Let me clarify one thing al.ong that line , too. The +Vatershed
District has no legal juri�diction over marinas , per se. It does have
jurisdiction over recreational usa.ge of the water. But it is primarily
a water quality organization. It i� concerned with various prok�lems --
surface �vater, ground water, etc. The conservation district ha.s no
jurisdiction as far �aspollution goes , tiut it ' s more of a police . . .
The conservation district , if current legislation is passed, wi] l have
authority over many matters dealing directly witl� marina operations ,
specifically, to �ake the words of the statute " and ordinances . "
END OF TAPE 3 - ((o