HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-06-2014 Council Minutes Special MeetingMINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Page 1 of 27
ROLL CALL
The Orono City Council met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Mayor
Lili Tod McMillan, Council Members Kristi Anderson, Cynthia Bremer, Lizz Levang, and Aaron Printup.
Representing Staff were City Administrator Jessica Loftus, Assistant City Administrator for Long-Term
Strategic Planning Michael Gaffron, City Attorney Soren Mattick, Consulting Planner Steve Grittman,
and Recorder Jackie Young.
Mayor McMillan called the meeting to order at 7:00 o’clock p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
It was the consensus of the City Council to approve the agenda as submitted.
McMillan indicated tonight’s meeting will start with a presentation by the City’s Planning Consultant,
Steve Grittman, followed by a presentation by the Citizens for Lakeview Preservation and a presentation
by Source Lake Capital. The Council will then discuss the proposed Comprehensive Plan Amendment
and make a decision on the merits of the application. McMillan stated after the vote on the
Comprehensive Plan Amendment, the City Council will discuss the proposed sketch plan for the property.
The City Council requests the members of the audience respect the deliberations and not interrupt the
discussion. McMillan noted this application was initially heard on November 11, 2013, and that the
Members of the City Council thank the citizens for their input on this item since that time.
PLANNING DEPARTMENT REPORT
1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW
a. Planning Report – Consultant Steve Grittman
Grittman stated the purpose of tonight’s special meeting is to consider the approval or denial of the
Comprehensive Plan Amendment proposed by Source Land Capital to re-guide the Lakeview Golf
Course property from parks, recreational, and open space to rural residential.
Grittman stated there are a few generalized options available to the City Council on this proposal. The
City Council has the option to leave the property designated as open parks and recreation, approve a
change to the land use designation to rural residential, or change the land use designation to something
else such as rural or urban. Grittman noted all of those changes have different ramifications and are
supported by different City ordinances or policies.
Grittman stated if the City Council denies the request; a no vote will need to be sustained with findings
based on the City’s Comprehensive Plan policies, and noted there is also the possibility of the applicant
bringing a legal claim against the City if his application is denied. Grittman indicated there are portions
of the City’s Comprehensive Plan that can be read to support the denial and/or approval of the best long-
term land use for this property.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 2 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Grittman noted the primary issues resulting from a denial and/or approval would be legal and budgetary
issues but that it is not impossible to read the Comprehensive Plan to say that it is best to leave it as open
space. A yes vote to the applicant’s proposal would re-guide the property from its current open space
designation to rural residential and there are potential issues that would flow from that.
Grittman indicated the nature of development under this scenario is still uncertain at this point. The
applicants have proposed a series of sketch plans, and noted that the City Council, by simply changing the
land use designation, does not lock the City into any specific plat or development plan. The rural
residential designation is consistent with the existing zoning and there are several policies in the
Comprehensive Plan that would sustain this land use designation. Grittman stated the issues are primarily
based around issues relating to compatibility with the existing land use pattern in the area.
Grittman stated the final issue before the City Council would be development and design and what type of
development would result with a rural residential designation. Grittman stated the different land use
designations for the community have a number of aspects to them that are written in the Comprehensive
Plan. Grittman indicated if there is an approval, the Comprehensive Plan amendment would then be
submitted to the Metropolitan Council. The Metropolitan Council would then be obligated to make a
determination as to whether the proposed amendment is consistent with the regional planning documents
within its areas of jurisdiction.
Staff recommends approval of the Comprehensive Plan amendment and believes it is consistent with
existing zoning in the area. Grittman indicated the rural residential land use designation would
accommodate residential land use with two-acre lot zoning, which is consistent with this zoning district.
Grittman stated the City would avoid certain legal or budgetary uncertainties if this approach is taken.
The two-acre residential development would be consistent with the surrounding area, which Staff feels is
one of the strongest factors supporting this particular amendment proposal. In addition, the City’s
platting requirements ensure that the area will be protected from environmental threats, traffic problems,
or engineering concerns. Grittman stated many of the other technical concerns that flow out of a
development proposal on land such as this would be really very well managed by the City’s development
regulations, such as its subdivision regulations and environmental regulations. As a result, Staff is
confident that development on this property would not raise a threat to the environment, which is also a
supporting factor of the idea that a change to the land use plan can be made in that regard.
Following the decision on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment by the City Council, a discussion will be
had on the sketch plan proposed by the applicant. The applicants have submitted a second alternative
sketch plan for review in addition to the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. Grittman noted the
applicant’s revised sketch plan does rely on some Planned Residential Development by varying lot sizes
but does not provide the large open space component that was part of the original sketch plan.
In support of the revised sketch plan, the applicants have taken a series of soil borings and percolation
tests, prepared a generalized stormwater management plan, conferred with Hennepin County in relation to
road design and access, conferred with the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District regarding stormwater
management, and addressed the directives of the City’s Conservation Design principles.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 3 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
The principal question on the sketch plan is whether the Council supports the use of an RPUD approach
or two-acre lots. The question for the applicants is the type of development that will then result based on
that density. The first alternative plan, which was considered by the Planning Commission, utilized an
RPUD approach with provided access to a central road from which several short spurs extended to
clusters of one-acre lots. The primary feature of that design was retention of just under half of the gross
land area as common open space. Grittman stated while the Planning Commission gave an informal
endorsement to this idea, the City Council was less favorable and preferred two-acre zoning.
Grittman noted the sketch plan review is basically advising the applicant on the general direction the City
would like the development to follow. Under a standard plat arrangement, the applicant would be
required to design a project that has the minimum width and lot area for each lot of public streets.
Levang thanked Grittman for the clarification of the two-acre averaging that is being proposed under the
revised sketch plan.
McMillan noted historically Lakeview Golf Course has been located in the City’s two-acre zoning
district. McMillan asked whether other cities, when there is a difference between their zoning districts
and guidance under the Comprehensive Plan, whether they immediately go to the task of reconciling all
of those differences.
Grittman indicated the requirements of the Metropolitan Council’s are to bring the City’s official controls
into compliance with the Comprehensive Plan within nine months but that it is not a concrete deadline
enforced by the Metropolitan Council. Grittman indicated in this particular case, the guidance and the
land use or the zoning designation, given the historic use of the property, are consistent since golf courses
are allowed in the rural residential district and there are not necessarily any conflicts.
McMillan asked if it would be a separate process for reconciling those differences and whether the
property owners would be provided notice that their property may be re-guided.
Grittman stated if the City goes through the Comprehensive Plan process and decides to take an area and
designate it for a different land use designation than what the previous plan called for, that would be part
of the Comprehensive Plan public process. The City is not required to notice individual property owners;
although, some cities will do that if major changes are being proposed. Grittman stated at the zoning
stage, the City is generally required to individually notify any affected property, which would be similar
to any other zoning application.
McMillan asked if more detail is required when the City is changing the zoning ordinance and less detail
if they are changing Comprehensive Plan guidance.
Grittman stated it would be a more administrative or technical process on the zoning side and more of a
policy process on the Comprehensive Plan side.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 4 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Printup noted the City’s Comprehensive Plan came about in the mid-1970s, and that he is struggling with
the strength of the Comprehensive Plan versus the land use and zoning of properties. Printup noted that
reconciling those two appears to be causing a number of people some issues.
Gaffron stated the zoning of Orono did not start until 1950. In November of 1950, the area where
Lakeview exists was zoned the Forest Lake District, which required a 15,000 square foot minimum lot
size and a 75-foot lot width. Over the next 10 years, the City required that all new developments have
larger lot areas and lot widths. In 1960, the requirements for the majority of the City became one acre lots
with a 140-foot lot width. In 1967, the City rezoned large portions of Orono, with roughly the northwest
half of the City being zoned R-1C, which consisted of single-family, one-acre minimum lot sizes and
145-foot lot widths. That zoning was changed again in 1975 to RR-1B, which is the City’s typical rural
residential two-acre minimum. That two acre zoning exists today.
Gaffron stated in terms of the City’s Comprehensive Plan, the first plan was adopted in 1974, and shows
lakeshore residential lot for the southeasterly three-quarters of the properties and rural residential for the
northwesterly three-quarters of the properties. That 1974 plan also indicated recreation facilities of
metropolitan significance. Gaffron stated his assumption is that it means a recreation area that drew more
than just the local residents, such as the different golf courses.
In 1980, the City adopted a new Comprehensive Plan. The land use plan showed various areas as park
and recreation areas, including all public and privately owned golf courses. In the 2000-2020
Comprehensive Plan, it listed a category for park, recreation and open space. The City’s 2008-2030
Comprehensive Plan had the same designation. Gaffron stated the City’s Comprehensive Plans over the
years contained zoning that allowed residential development as early as 1950 and it has been zoned
residential ever since. Gaffron noted the City did not have a guide plan until 1974, but that guide plan has
always shown this property as a park and recreation area.
Anderson asked if a different type of weighting was given in 1995 to the primary land controls in the
Comprehensive Plan versus the City’s zoning ordinances.
Gaffron stated she is probably talking about the Comprehensive Plan versus zoning and the hierarchy of
one over the other.
Mattick stated there was some discussion back then about which takes priority - the Comprehensive Plan
or the City’s zoning to the extent they are inconsistent. Mattick stated in some of the materials that have
been submitted tonight, it suggests that the Comprehensive Plan controls. Mattick stated in his view the
history of the City’s Comprehensive Plans is important, but in terms of the hierarchy and which one
controls, that does not really matter at this point. Mattick stated in his opinion, based on the MN Supreme
Court and the state statutes, it is more important for the City to get them in alignment with each other.
Mattick stated whether that is accomplished by changing the Comprehensive Plan or zoning ordinances
does not matter but that they need to be consistent.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 5 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
b. Presentation by Citizens for Lakeview Preservation
Bryce Johnson noted on November 12 the City Council heard the proposal presented for Lakeview Golf
Course and learned that there was a group of concerned citizens that wanted time to consider an
alternative. Ten days after that, Citizens for Lakeview Preservation was incorporated and began its
activities to seek broader support for this alternative, believing it to be exactly what Orono’s
Comprehensive Plan suggests they do.
Johnson commented the group has thoroughly enjoyed the encouragement and engagement with fellow
citizens. The group originally started as a neighborhood group but it has evolved into over 1,000
concerned citizens who have signed the petition. Johnson stated over 100 names were added on Saturday
alone and that less than 40 of those residents were notified as neighboring properties to this proposed
development. Johnson commented this proposed development has truly become a concern that has far
transcended the neighborhood and that there is a large group of residents who have become fierce
proponents of Orono, its philosophy, and the reasons that they have chosen to live in Orono.
Johnson stated their message consists of three parts: One, to preserve Lakeview as open space for all
citizens and future generations; two, protect the integrity of the Community Management Plan contained
within the City’s Comprehensive Plan; and three, respect the property rights of the owner. Johnson noted
there are many people in their group who believe people have property rights.
Johnson stated he first would like to talk about what it means to protect the Comprehensive Plan and
respect the rights of the property owner. Johnson stated it was initially felt the plan was clear with its
references throughout to preservation and open space, but then it was pointed out that Lakeview was also
zoned residential. It was also later pointed out that everything in Orono was zoned residential, such as the
parks and other golf courses besides Lakeview.
Johnson indicated their group is concerned about facts and that they do not want to mislead anyone about
this application and that they have sought the best legal minds to answer questions and provide legal
opinions to the City Council. The same is true as it relates to property rights and that the group feels
tremendous empathy with the Wenksterns.
Johnson questioned what a change to the Comprehensive Plan really means, and asked whether anyone
can obtain a zoning change as a property right or whenever there is an opportunity to realize a special
profit. Johnson stated there is a huge range of beliefs concerning this property and that the group
instinctively felt the property owner should have the right to sell their property. There were also a
number of environmental issues that were raised by the City Council and the citizens at the November 12
meeting. Johnson noted the group has hired an environmental firm to speak tonight on those issues. In
addition, a concern was raised concerning the marketability of such a development, and the group has
sought experts to find out what that really means. Johnson indicated those are the people that will be
addressing the City Council tonight.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 6 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Tom Radio, Attorney-at-Law with Best & Flannigan, stated he has been practicing land use and
municipal law for approximately 30 years and that he has served as a city attorney to the Cities of
Minnetrista, Afton, and Orono.
Radio stated he is here tonight because the group has asked him to comment on the Comprehensive Plan
process, the importance of the Comprehensive Plan, and the legal tests involved with amending it. Radio
indicated he has provided a legal analysis to the City Attorney but that he wants to emphasize three key
points.
Radio stated the first point is that the City has broad discretion, authority and responsibility to preserve
and protect the Comprehensive Plan. The courts will defer to the legislative determination of the City in
drafting and amending the Comprehensive Plan as long as there is a rational basis for that decision.
Radio noted he analyzed two key cases in his letter dealing with golf courses. In those cases, the
Minnesota Supreme Court was very deferential to the City Council and to its determination of what was
appropriate and what was in the Comprehensive Plan.
Radio stated comprehensive plans, particularly since the 1995 Comprehensive Planning Act, are
considered to be a fundamental planning document that reflects the goals and objectives, the dreams and
the long-term history and legacy of every community in Minnesota. Radio stated the Comprehensive
Plan is an important document to protect because it captures for a long-term basis the hopes and
aspirations of a community as they move through development, redevelopment, providing facilities and
recreational activities, as well as protection of property rights. Radio stated it is a fundamental,
constitutional document for the planning of any city.
Radio stated in this particular instance, and in every instance where there is a change to the
Comprehensive Plan, a careful analysis is required of the many factors involved, not only in this
application, but to any plan that may be adopted in the future. Radio indicated he would agree with the
City Attorney on the question of the conflicts between the Comprehensive Plan and zoning ordinances
and that it is largely a non-issue. The courts have basically said under the 1995 Act that the
Comprehensive Plan is the pre-eminent zoning document, and if there is a conflict, they need to be
brought into accordance with each other.
Radio noted in the Mendota Golf case, the Supreme Court stated if there is a discrepancy between the two
documents; the zoning regulations do not trump the Comprehensive Plan. Radio indicated that was the
law when he first started practicing law before 1995 but that there was a change by the Minnesota
Legislature in that regard. Radio stated to the extent there is a conflict here between the Comprehensive
Plan and the zoning ordinances, it really is a non-conflict and can be resolved through an amendment of
the Comprehensive Plan or an amendment to the zoning ordinances, but it does not provide a basis for
changing the Comprehensive Plan.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 7 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Radio stated in his view, the City’s review process to date has been less than adequate and flawed. Radio
stated he says that with all due respect to the City’s planning consultant and that it is difficult to deal with
such a complex issue. Radio stated the fundamental issue is what has changed since the adoption of the
Comprehensive Plan in 2010. The City Council should determine what has changed about the City’s
goals, objectives, land use, codes, or anything that would justify this radical change from this property’s
current designation to rural residential. Radio indicated he has not seen anything in the record to suggest
that there has been any change to justify this and that the only rationale that has been articulated is to
avoid potential litigation. Radio stated on the basis of the Comprehensive Plan, if the City Council denies
this application and follows the City’s Comprehensive Plan, no court will substitute its judgment for the
City’s on that point.
Radio stated there is no risk-free alternative and that the basic argument in making the change is to avoid
litigation. Radio indicated he has been doing this enough years to know there is no risk-free alternative,
and if the City is to change its Comprehensive Plan on this thin of a record without any substantiation, the
City’s whole Comprehensive Plan would be at risk and would allow anyone to come in and request a
change to the Comprehensive Plan.
Radio stated he would urge the City Council to deny this application based upon no substantial change in
circumstances to justify the change in the Comprehensive Plan, that the reasons that have existed for
decades in the Comprehensive Plan have not changed in this particular matter, and that he would request
the City Council direct Staff to prepare a resolution of denial and establish a protocol to handle future
requests to amend the Comprehensive Plan. Radio stated it is very rare that a Comprehensive Plan
amendment comes up in the context of a land use application such as this.
Radio noted in 2010 the City had a very careful, analytical, thoughtful process regarding the
Comprehensive Plan and whether things should be changed. Radio stated in his view this would be a rush
to judgment and not result in a good decision.
Mark Thieroff, Attorney-at-Law with Siegel, Brill, stated his law firm has extensive experience in
litigating regulatory takings claims like the claim that has been suggested or implied in this case,
particularly in the context of redevelopment of golf courses. Thieroff noted his law firm represented
Wenzman and also represented the owners of the Parkview Golf Course in Eagan. Thieroff stated he
raised those cases because he would like the City Council to understand that his comments tonight are
based on his experience in litigating those cases.
Thieroff stated his first point is to clarify the legal standard that governs regulatory takings claims and
that his second point deals with the misconceptions about this area of law that appear in the Staff report
and in some of the written materials that have been presented to the City Council for consideration.
Thieroff stated in a regulatory takings claim, the courts apply a multi-factored test that is described in his
letter that has been provided to the City Attorney. The key question is; does the action of the City leave
the property owner without any reasonable economically viable alternative use of the property. Thieroff
indicated there are some other factors that are considered, but if a landowner cannot show that, it is
virtually impossible to prevail on a regulatory taking claim.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 8 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Thieroff stated the first misconception contained in the documents is the idea that the potential for a
takings claim turns on whether the current owner of the property can operate the golf course profitably.
Thieroff indicated that is not the test and noted the current owner is not the measure of whether this
property can be used in an economically beneficial way. Thieroff noted in the Wenzman case, there was
evidence before the MN Supreme Court that there was another golf course operator who was willing to
buy the property and operate it in an economically profitable way. The fact that a current owner may be
facing economic difficulties is not the test of whether this property has value as a golf course. Thieroff
indicated there are other factors, such as marketing factors and experience in the industry, where someone
would be able to operate the course in a profitable manner. Thieroff noted they did include in their
affidavit that the owner of this property did receive an offer from some members of the course who were
interested in taking it over and running it as a golf course, which establishes that there is value to this
property as a golf course.
Thieroff stated the second misconception is that there are no other possible alternative uses under the
current guiding and that it is either a golf course or it must be re-guided, which is not the case. Going
back to the Wenzman case, the Supreme Court has suggested that if someone is interested in purchasing
the property simply to hold it in the hopes that one day the guiding might change to allow development, it
would be an alternative economically viable use of the property to sell it to such a person. Thieroff stated
there is a vision in the community for putting this property to a different use but yet maintain the current
guiding on the property.
Thieroff stated the third misconception is a combination of the idea that the owner is entitled to a return
on his investment and the other is that the owner is entitled to the zoning that would make the land most
profitable. Thieroff commented there are lots of people who would like to have different zoning on their
property to make it more valuable, which is not the legal test. It has been established for over 100 years
that cities can constitutionally zone property even if it reduces the value of that property. Thieroff stated
he would like to point out, however, that return on investment is relevant, but in looking at a regulatory
taking claim, how much a person paid for the property is also relevant and is considered in whether an
alternative use or value would be reasonable.
Thieroff stated the last main misconception is the idea that all the landowner has to do is to tell the City
there is no economically viable use for the property and therefore the City must grant the application. In
the cases mentioned before, there is extensive information that is considered when considering a
regulatory taking claim. The owner has to show all the financials of the business and demonstrate that
everything has been done to run the business in an economically viable way. Those cases have involved
market studies and extensive appraisals. They have also involved expert opinions from golf course
management experts as to whether this golf course might be run differently and generate a profit.
Thieroff noted none of that evidence is before the City Council tonight and that there is literally nothing
before the City other than a suggestion that the current owner cannot do it anymore. Thieroff stated that
does not provide the basis for a regulatory taking claim and that the City Council should consider that in
discussing the application tonight. Thieroff stated based on the record before the City Council, there is
relatively little risk of a regulatory taking claim.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Page 9 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
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PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Bremer asked if the City Council had never previously required that type of information in the context of
another application, if it would not open the City to a claim of dissimilar treatment in a very similar
circumstance. Bremer indicated she does not recall a time where the City Council required an expert to
say that this use works better or that use does not work. Bremer stated she cannot recall a time in any
context as she sits here tonight where the City has required that type of detailed information.
Thieroff stated he would answer that question by saying that if there is a concern on the part of the City
Council about a potential for a takings claim, one approach they could take would be to suggest that the
60-day deadline for the decision be extended because you would like to receive additional information to
back up the statements made in the application that the property cannot be operated in an economically
viable way.
Bremer asked if the applicant agrees to extend the deadline and the City Council has requested that type
of information, if, after those 60 days have expired, whether their position would be that the City Council
has done sufficient homework that they would feel comfortable that the City is now exposing themselves
to a takings cause of action.
Bremer noted she has read the cited cases and that she has a slightly different opinion but that she is not a
real estate attorney. Bremer asked what Mr. Thieroff would do if he was in her position and the 60 days
have gone by and the information submitted by the applicant shows all those things are true that they have
told the City. Bremer asked if the information shows that the golf course is not viable and that there is no
way to make it economically viable, what the City should do in that situation.
Thieroff stated then the City Council should go ahead and approve the application, but at this time the
record does not show that information. Thieroff stated in his experience in trying these cases, he has
found that the golf course industry in the Twin Cities does not correlate to the economic performance of
the golf course alone but that it correlates to the real estate market and the profit they can make by
developing the land.
Bremer asked what exposure there would be to the City of a takings claim if the assumption is made that
the City Council approves the Comprehensive Plan amendment. Bremer asked if the City Council would
have the discretion to make that decision if they decide they can trust the information and representations
they have from the applicant even if the information is not as thorough as Mr. Thieroff thinks it should be.
Thieroff stated on the takings issue, there is not an inverse claim and there is not a claim the proponents
for the project could bring against the City Council for accepting the risk of a takings claim in granting
the application if it is based on proper findings and rationale. Thieroff stated on the Comprehensive Plan
issue, the points raised by Tom Radio regarding judicial discretion apply both ways and that it would be
difficult for the applicant to challenge the City Council’s decision not to amend the Comprehensive Plan
if it is made on proper findings.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Thieroff stated if the opposite decision is made based on proper findings; it would similarly be difficult to
make a claim, which is why the emphasis is on preserving the Comprehensive Plan. Thieroff stated the
risk on the Comprehensive Plan side is not whether litigation would result but it is the risk of opening up
the door to turning the Comprehensive Plan into something that is constitutional to something that can be
changed without going through all those steps.
Bremer commented it is more opening the door to a slippery slope.
Thieroff stated it would also go to the contribution of the citizens who have participated in the process of
creating the Comprehensive Plan and the vision that was adopted.
Kathy Sawicki indicated she is here tonight to offer her personal professional opinion and not the opinion
of Coldwell Banker Burnet or another real estate agent. Sawicki stated the opinions tonight are based on
her market analysis, which was based on an absorption rate analysis. Sawicki stated she is also a 27-year
resident of the City of Orono and live within one mile of Lakeview Golf Course.
Sawicki stated all markets are local and that what is happening in the Wayzata School District is not
necessarily indicative of what is happening in the Orono or Westonka School Districts. Sawicki stated
when real estate agents talk about absorption rate, that is the speed at which properties are selling within a
given market rate. The absorption rate is typically calculated on a one-year look back. That one-year
look back is based on the number of sales that occurred on a per month basis for the prior year. Sawicki
stated real estate agents also then look at the month’s supply of inventory, which are the active listings
available to the market place. Sawicki stated historically a five to seven month inventory is characteristic
of a stable market and that when you drop below five months of inventory, you start to see what is
considered a seller’s market consisting of increasing prices, multiple offers. Having an inventory of over
seven or eight months is considered a buyer’s market.
Sawicki stated when she was asked to analyze this property; her information at the time was that there
would be single-family homes built in the $800,000 to $1.2 million price range. Sawicki stated when she
looked at what happened in 2013 for nonlakeshore properties, there were eight pending and closed sales
in 2013 in that price segment. There are currently eight listings on the market. Half of those are in
temporarily not available status, which typically happens during the holidays. Sawicki stated currently
there is a 12-month inventory in this market segment in the City of Orono and that she would also point
out that of those eight pending and closed sales, all were in the Orono School District and none were in
the Westonka School District, which is where Lakeview is located.
Sawicki stated as it relates to single-family lots available in Orono, she looked at one to four acre lots in
Orono in the $250,000 to $450,000 price range. There were two pending and closed sales in 2013 in that
market segment. Sawicki stated there were five active listings on the MLS but that she would found there
were more lots available that were not on the MLS. The McIntyre development, which is located in the
City of Orono, Orono School District, just north of Lakeview, there were lots available consisting of .3
acre to 3 acres. Homes in that development have been available for purchase since 2011. One home has
been built and sold and a second home is under construction as a spec home but there are no offers on it.
Sawicki stated this demonstrates what the demand is for lots similar to these in Orono.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
In the Bayside Meadows development, which is a six-lot development very close to the Lakeview Golf
Course but in the Westonka School District, Sawicki stated in talking to the developer, they have
indicated they do not have an offer on any of those lots. Sawicki stated based on her research, Orono has
an inventory of approximately 66 months based on the current rate of sales, which is indicative of a strong
supply and not a strong demand.
Sawicki stated if Orono adds 50 home sites within the Westonka School District, it will create in theory a
30-year supply of homes in that market segment, but noted that is assuming demand significantly
strengthens. Sawicki stated she cannot predict what will happen with mortgage interest rates or job
creation, which affects the real estate market, but that history has taught us that the national housing
bubble was created when demand fell away and there was an extreme oversupply of homes on the market.
Sawicki stated the country is slowly coming out of the housing bubble but the price index reflects 2002
pricing. Sawicki stated in conclusion, she cannot predict what will happen with demand, but that there
currently is a large supply of housing available in Orono.
Brett Edmonds, Edmonds Resources, stated his firm is a small to medium sized firm that specializes in
environmental assessments and water resources. One of the key points that should be brought out are the
impacts of converting an open space and what that implies in terms of demands and the burden put on the
area as it relates to infrastructure, natural resources, and environmentally sensitive areas. Edmonds stated
based on the information provided to date, it is likely there will be private wells put in as part of this
development. Edmonds stated an issue that has not been given a lot of attention is the sustainability of
the water table in this area. If private wells are drilled, the area might experience some draw down
effects, which needs to be looked at closer. Another issue that should be considered is the fact that
additional homes will reduce the ground water discharge that supports the local lakes and wetlands.
Edmonds stated there are still a lot of unanswered questions on what that will mean to the area.
Edmonds stated another factor that should be considered is that the change in land use will have the
potential to create a lot more runoff to the lakes and streams in the area. Edmonds noted the regulatory
standards are changing and that what is on the books currently may not be adequate for future demand.
Another factor that needs to be considered is the increased traffic and the impacts it will have on the area.
Edmonds stated there are significant constraints to this piece of land and not all the information has been
ascertained. Edmonds noted the regulatory agencies cannot check in the middle of winter to determine
where the wetlands are. There are a number of steep slopes on the site, which could imply the need for
some grading. Edmonds indicated he has not seen a grading plan yet and that he is not sure how the roads
will be constructed, but based on the steep slopes, it is likely some major grading will need to be
undertaken.
Edmonds stated there is also the issue of site grading. If there is going to be a septic based approach,
there will be the complicating factor of locating septic sites on land that has been disturbed. Edmonds
noted the golf course has been graded in the past and it is unclear whether that has had any effect on the
septic sites that are being proposed.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Edmonds stated some of the guidelines that were provided also suggest that this is a fairly dense
development for the land mass and that the City Council needs to focus on what is the actual buildable
area. Edmonds stated in his view the information is somewhat insufficient at this point to get a good idea
of what is being proposed and what the actual impacts will be. In addition, the wetlands are not well
defined. While the soil testing that has been provided suggest some small areas were suitable for septic
sites, they do not correspond with very many of the areas where homes are being proposed and is only a
very small fraction of the total area.
Edmonds stated in a conservation design, a person would expect to see more attention being given to the
stormwater and how the impacts will be managed. Edmonds stated at this point there are a lot of question
marks and a lot of issues that concern the residents. Edmonds stated in his view lack of information is a
common theme and that these issues should be addressed early on in the process.
McMillan asked if he sees ways that stormwater control can be effectively managed on this site.
Edmonds stated he has not seen sufficient soil borings to determine that.
McMillan noted the wells of the golf course are pretty intense and asked if Mr. Edmonds has done any
analysis on the water usage of a golf course versus a residential development.
Edmonds stated he did a quick check of the information provided and that it appears the data provided
from 2008 onward is very consistent and does not vary substantially. Edmonds indicated he would take
those numbers with a grain of salt given the similarity in the numbers for dry years versus wet years over
the past five years. Edmonds stated in his view that information needs to be analyzed closer.
Edmonds noted there is also a fairly large drainage area that flows through a big wet area in the middle of
the site and that what they use to draw water for the golf course could be partially surface water.
McMillan asked if he is familiar with Medina’s regulation requiring stormwater ponds to provide lawn
irrigation.
Edmonds indicated he is not.
McMillan noted they have started to make that a requirement.
Dave Broden, 140 Crystal Creek Road, stated his perspective is as an average citizen and the vision of the
community currently and into the future. Broden stated they are interested in protecting a legacy vision
that all people have when they move to a community and where that vision is going. Broden stated they
would all agree that Minnesota throughout its history has a vision of wanting to protect the environment
and the quality of life and open space, which is one of the strengths of this community. That vision is a
legacy statement intended for the ages and not to be changed to meet short-term needs.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Broden stated one of the things he does besides being a technical person is to be part of a public policy
group called Civic Caucus. Every Friday morning the Civic Caucus gets together and interviews
someone involved in public policy. For the last nine months, Civic Caucus has been focusing on the
foundational competitive factors of Minnesota and what makes Minnesota strong and how it can be made
stronger.
Broden stated one of the things Civic Caucus found is that the quality of the local communities, the
quality of the environment, and the way the state protects and uses the land is a key part of the
foundational competitiveness of the State of Minnesota. Those elements add value and purpose and
strength throughout the state.
Broden stated to be changing those foundational visions at this time is a short-term vision and a short-
term action that will affect the long-term position that a number of people are trying to establish. Broden
indicated this is not just a decision that will affect Orono but it can reach out throughout the state with a
domino effect. Broden noted a number of people are watching this application and want to see what is
happening.
Broden stated in his view they are talking about a policy issue and not a management issue. Broden
commented it is very easy to manage a problem but it is difficult to discuss a policy issue, which is where
the City Council should be focusing on. Broden stated good government comes first with good policy
followed by how you implement it.
The vision that Minnesota has today has grown through a series of legislative actions. In the early 1970s,
green acre legislation was put in place, which was said by some people to be for rural areas, but the
implications were state-wide. That legislation has since been amended, strengthened, and applied for 50
years. At the same time, Hennepin County established its county park system, which protects open
spaces and adds value to the local communities. That park system has evolved into Three Rivers. The
initial objectives of the Metro Council were to ensure good land use throughout the metro area. Broden
stated basic land use should be setting a vision.
Broden noted that recently several reports have come out about the quality of water in Minnesota. While
some people never thought that would need to be discussed in Minnesota, today it is one of the top
priority issues going on across the state. Broden stated by protecting and having visionary statements and
activities, Minnesota protects its foundational competitiveness and provide opportunities for generations.
Broden stated protecting that vision is critical. While there have been a number of environmental changes
over the years, not all of them have resulted in positive changes. Broden noted at one time it was thought
that draining prairie pot holes would be a good idea in order to accommodate greater land use. No
consideration was given to the impact on water tables, water quality, soil conditions or water fowl habitat.
In addition, the use of agri-fertilizers has impacted the quality of water.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Broden stated the State of Minnesota recognizes the importance of land use management. Public policy
issues that impact Minnesota include continued involvement and interface with public policy
organizations and individuals and frequent dialogue with MN Agricultural Commissioner Dave
Frederickson regarding topics including land use issues and water quality.
Broden stated preserving Lakeview is critical because changing the City’s Comprehensive Plan will affect
all citizens of Orono not just for this generation but for future generations. The basic plan in place
recognizes that vision. Broden stated if it is put into the perspective of a vision for the future, he is not
sure how the City Council can make a change. Broden stated the strength of the group and the number of
people here tonight confirms that this is not a singular area issue but that it is a broader issue affecting
more than just the Lakeview neighbors. Broden stated the City Council needs to build on these issues and
fundamental guidelines and protect the quality of life in this area.
Bryce Johnson stated if a person looks at what might be created on this unique site, it will be the start of a
vision. Johnson stated the City needs to have such a vision. The residents see this land potentially as
having a nature history and education portion year-round, which is a concept that could still involve golf
with a difference. Those two concepts would protect the environment, maintain dark skies, educate and
inspire, honor Orono’s cultural heritage, there would be collaboration with other organizations, and access
to all.
In addition to a golf course, the land could be used for walking trails, cross-country skiing, skating,
sledding, and observing nature throughout the year, and areas that would be returned to a natural habitat
consisting of prairies, trees, and wetlands, which would support wildlife such as birds and butterflies.
Johnson stated there could be other areas that could be open to creative landscapers to create arboretum
like areas as well as incorporating plaques devoted to the history of this land. Johnson commented
history and culture would play a big role, especially since everyone is now learning about the genealogy
of this land ranging from when it first served as a park during the late 1800s and early 1900s, through
farming, and to its present state as a golf course.
Johnson stated the residents also learned that Source Land Capital was not the first to propose a
development on this site and that someone in 1892 proposed what appears to be a series of cottage type
lots called Gray Plant. Johnson indicated Native American history has also played an important part in
this area, aspects of which are described in the history of the land that has been included in the City
Council’s packets. Johnson stated there is a rich texture of history and culture in this land that is perched
above the northwest corner of Lake Minnetonka, which is helping to inspire the residents to protect the
land for generations to club. Johnson stated the club house offers an opportunity to enforce education
initiated by the outdoor experience and, with rehabilitation, the club house could become an education
center with rotating exhibits; serve as a lecture/meeting area, and a small event venue.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Johnson stated one of their concepts as part of this vision is creating an area for golf with a difference. As
part of that the residents could create a business plan for a portion of this land, such as a 9-hole public
golf course that would address brand identity and marketing, historical context, a First Tee organization to
promote life skills and leadership through the game of golf, and harmony with nature. Johnson stated the
plan would also provide environmental planning, wildlife and habitat management, chemical use
reduction and safety, water quality and management, as well as outreach and education. Johnson stated it
would be compatible with the other dimension of their vision. Johnson stated these ideas are the results
of the input of hundreds of people and would help celebrate the history, the legacy, and the lake that is
near this course.
Johnson stated the citizens group would work with the Wenkstern family to create a legacy as well as
involving private and corporate sponsors. Johnson stated in their view there would be a lot of interest in
this type of property and that they would leave it to the City Council’s imagination of what this land could
become. The citizens would welcome the Council’s input on creating a legacy for this area. Johnson
stated if they are successful in creating such a vision, the citizens group has identified a variety of funds,
grants, and foundations that could be approached for the management and development part of this
legacy.
Dean Mitchell stated he would like to tell a tale of three cities – Minneapolis, Hopkins, and Orono. All
three of these cities grew up at the same time and all had open space decisions that they dealt with.
Minneapolis chose to preserve Minnehaha Creek with the help of private funds, Hopkins chose to allow
development along Minnehaha Creek and Orono is now at a point where they have to make a decision.
Mitchell noted historically Orono was founded with the concept of open space.
Mitchell stated there was a letter to the editor in today’s Star Tribune entitled one suburb gets it and one
does not. According to reports, Maplewood has been planning for decades to add 70 acres of prime bluff
land along the Mississippi River to its green space. Meanwhile, Orono shanked its chance to effectively
plan for the transition of the Lakeview Golf Course and somehow that land is being sold to a developer
over the howls of its citizens. Johnson stated while he does not live in Orono or Maplewood, all citizens
are vested in these decisions since they affect the quality of life in all the metro area. Mitchell stated once
the green space is gone, it’s gone forever.
Mitchell stated he would just like to say that it comes down to what you want to defend. The City
Council has a choice to either approve a housing development or defend a legacy that will serve
generation upon generation. Mitchell stated he hopes the Members of the City Council vote for the long-
term legacy of Orono that will serve many generations to come.
Bryce Johnson noted their group initially started with 60 people in October and has now grown to
approximately 1,000 people. Johnson commented that while they have spoken for an hour tonight, if each
of the 1,000 people that signed the petition had five minutes each, they would be here for three and a half
days. Johnson stated the residents are motivated and engaged and will continue to be involved in this
issue. Johnson noted over 400 people have pledged their personal money to help with this cause and that
their group has identified other sources of funding. Johnson stated due to the time of the season, it did not
allow them to approach corporate sources.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Johnson stated this experience has provided a wonderful opportunity to meet new people and every day is
a new learning experience. Johnson indicated he spent two hours today with Dr. Glen Nelson and
Marilyn Carlson-Nelson, two residents of Orono who are very interested in what is happening with
Lakeview. Johnson stated at the end of the conversation, the Nelsons asked him to bring a note to the
Council which states as follows: They have become aware of the impending potential amendment of the
Orono Community Management Plan as it pertains to the Lakeview Golf Course. We believe that more
studies should be undertaken before undertaking the plan. We appreciate all you do to maintain the
character of our beautiful community and we also respect the rights of our respective Orono families.
Therefore, we urge you to declare a moratorium to provide further time to explore all options to achieve
an optimal outcome for the owners of the property and for the people of the community.
Johnson stated a moratorium may be another element of flexibility available to the City and is part of the
whole message of caution and questioning by the residents on whether there is another alternative
available to the City.
Pat Hiller, Source Land Capital, stated at the November 12 meeting, the City Council indicated they
would like additional testing and more information submitted on the viability of a residential development
on this site. Hiller noted that information has been submitted to Staff. At that time the City Council also
heard from the public a number of concerns ranging from traffic congestion, septic issues, stormwater
runoff, and impact from the water usage.
Hiller stated between then and now, another neighborhood meeting was held on December 19, which was
attended by 20 to 25 residents. The meeting was held as an open house with nine different easels set up
containing different information regarding their proposal and provided them with an opportunity to
answer the questions of the residents.
Hiller noted a few weeks back, pursuant to the request of the City Council, additional information was
submitted, including an updated concept plan, soil boring testing, a completed wetland delineation report,
with the field work being completed in September and October prior to the ground freezing, percolation
testing conducted on 14 locations, a survey, a traffic management assessment from Hennepin County, and
answers to an environmental assessment worksheet. Hiller stated he would also like to discuss a city
water solution for this property. Hiller stated in his view this is the information necessary to substantiate
the viability of the site.
Hiller indicated their updated concept plan shows 55 lots with a single access off of West Branch. Each
of the lots averages a little over two acres. Hiller noted the lots do vary in size, with some being closer to
one acre and some consisting close to three acres. There are also areas that are proposed to be maintained
in a conservation easement. Hiller indicated they would like to dedicate a portion of the site to a
conservation easement and restore the land to native grasses and vegetation. Hiller stated the light gray
areas represent the approximate building pads and septic sites.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Hiller stated they elected to continue to propose a single entrance off of West Branch, which would take
the traffic off of North Arm. Currently the traffic is routed to the four-way stop and traffic from the
development would instead be diverted to West Branch. In addition, the revised plan does account for the
natural pathways. The first area of concern raised by the residents related to traffic. Hiller indicated they
spoke with Hennepin County traffic engineers and asked them to look at the combined elements of the
traffic from both the Lakeview and Red Oak developments. Hennepin County has indicated in an e-mail
that they prefer the one access on to West Branch and they are not suggesting any additional turn lanes or
modifications to what currently exists in the area of the four-way stop. Hiller noted there are
approximately 260 round trips per day currently through the two-way stop. Roughly that same amount of
traffic will be directed to the four-way stop.
As it relates to septic system viability, Hiller indicated they underwent a two-step process. Identified first
were zones of native soils and areas where the soil will percolate. Those areas were then incorporated
into the design. Hiller stated their septic expert identified 14 sites that were on the margin and those were
tested prior to the ground freezing. All of those sites passed except for one. Hiller noted they did not
have time to complete more testing prior to freezing.
In regards to stormwater management, Hiller stated he appreciates the concerns raised by the citizens’
environmental consultant, but noted they have not submitted a preliminary plat application and that they
are still at the concept stage. Hiller stated in his view they have provided considerably more information
than usual for this stage of the process in order to substantiate the viability of their proposal. Hiller
indicated their plan will include onsite filtering ponds, which will control the rate of runoff from the site,
and improve the water quality. Hiller indicated they have also been working with the Watershed District,
who has seen the progression of designs, and the Watershed District is generally on board with what is
being proposed. Hiller stated the idea is to continue to work with them and utilize their expertise as it
relates to this development.
Hiller indicated they also looked at the typical water usage for 55 homes, which was determined to be
approximately 30 percent less than the golf course. Hiller noted the golf course is required to report to the
DNR every year the water usage from the aquifer on the site. The number the Wenksterns has been
reporting the last three years has been right around 20 million gallons, which is measured through the
meters on the pumps. Hiller stated if you look at the 55 proposed homes and take an average number of
300 gallons per day, there will be a decrease of approximately six million gallons from what is currently
being used by the golf course.
Hiller stated their preferred option for water at this time is to work out a deal with the City of Minnetrista
to bring in city water to this development. Discussions have been held with the City of Minnetrista and
their initial thought was that they would consider it. Hiller noted a formal request needs to be made
before a final decision will be made by Minnetrista. Hiller stated given the development of the Red Oak
Golf Course, it seemed logical to extend the water to the Lakeview development as well. Hiller noted the
alternative would be to drill 55 private wells.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
In anticipation of a request for an EAW, Hiller indicated they have gone ahead and answered the
questions, which has been provided to City Staff and Council. Hiller stated the EAW asks about the
nature of the soils, the environmental impacts, the native species, and the local impact of the plan. Those
questions have been formally answered in the EAW packet. Because the Council has broad discretion to
grant this request, Hiller stated it is their opinion that no new information will be gathered to conduct a
formal EAW and will provide no additional information over what has already been provided. Hiller
stated from an ecological standpoint, their proposal will create a better looking area and the water runoff
will be cleaner.
Peter Coyle, Attorney-at-Law with Larkin, Hoffman, stated the residents have a right to speak up
regarding this property, but that he would caution the City Council to remember that they are only
opinions and not legally compelling evidence that binds the Council in any certain way.
Coyle stated they are in agreement with Staff’s report. Coyle noted both sides agree there is a land use
conflict between the City’s Comprehensive Plan and their zoning ordinances, which needs to be resolved.
In addition, both sides agree that if the property owner can demonstrate no reasonable economic use of his
property, he is entitled to be provided with a reasonable economic viable use. Both sides also agree that if
the property owner makes a demonstration that it is financially infeasible for him to continue to operate
the golf course, that the City has a constitutional obligation to either provide the property owner with a
remedy in terms of reasonable economic use, which this proposal does, or the City has a constitutional
obligation to make the property owner whole by compensating him for the loss of his use.
Coyle stated what the residents have asked the City Council to do this evening is to prevent this property
owner from converting his property to a reasonable economic use and to keep it in its current condition,
forcing the property owner, in essence, to operate at a loss for the benefit of the public. Coyle stated it is
quite clear that the City cannot impose a public burden on a private landowner. If the City Council
chooses to not act on the requested change and deny the request, Coyle stated that would be the easiest
solution for the residents, but that he would point out that it would be the hardest decision the City will
make for itself since the City will then need to find the money to address the compensation issue that is
addressed by the constitution. Coyle noted the residents’ consultant confirmed that when the landowner
makes that presentation, the City Council is obligated to approve that use unless the City Council wants to
make him whole. Coyle stated there has been no evidence presented by anybody tonight that would
indicate the City has a check waiting for the property owner to substitute what the city taxpayers will have
to fund in the event of a denial.
Coyle stated the City Council has to deal with the facts that exist in the record. While the City Council
has heard from an environmental consultant who has offered his opinions, those opinions are not based on
any firm evidence. Coyle indicated Mr. Wenkstern will provide the information as to the financial
situation of the golf course. Coyle stated after four or six hours of public testimony and hundreds of
pages of documents, the City Council has an adequate record to make a decision.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Coyle noted one of the consultants this evening suggested that his professional experience was based in
part on golf courses located in the City of Eagan. Coyle stated what that consultant did not say is that
both of those golf courses went through very contentious processes and both of them are now under
development for residential development because the landowner could not make a go of it. The City had
no other option, did not have the resources to purchase the property, and the landowner was entitled to be
provided with a reasonable economic use, which is what is being requested this evening for the
Wenksterns.
Grant Wenkstern, Lakeview Golf Course, stated he and his wife, through a family corporation, are the
owners of the Lakeview Golf Course property. Wenkstern indicated Lakeview Golf Course was initially
built by his father in 1956. Wenkstern indicated he started working at the business when he was a boy,
which continued through his school years and when he returned from Vietnam in 1968. The property was
eventually acquired from the family in 1979.
Wenkstern indicated he has earned a living operating Lakeview and Red Oak Golf Courses for his entire
adult life and that over that time he has paid substantial real estate taxes and have been good members of
the community. As most people know, the game of golf has been declining in popularity in recent years
across the nation. Golf courses, which were profitable, no longer are. Lakeview is no exception.
Wenkstern stated for the past five years, his wife has taken no salary and he has taken a minimal one.
Each year the losses have increased. Over the past few years, it became evident that using this property
as a golf course was no longer viable. Wenkstern stated they realized they would need to sell Lakeview
as well as Red Oak in order to derive the benefit of selling the land.
Wenkstern stated if they are not allowed to complete the sale of the property this spring, his family will
sustain substantial hardship because the golf course will continue to lose money and they will continue to
be required to make mortgage payments, pay taxes, insurances and other upkeep expenses associated with
the golf course. Wenkstern noted if the property is no longer used as a golf course, they will be required
to pay Hennepin County deferred open space taxes in excess of $950,000.
Wenkstern stated if they cannot complete this transaction, they will not be able to retire. To avoid that
hardship, Wenkstern stated they are asking the City Council to take whatever action is necessary to allow
the buyer to complete the purchase of the land.
Pat Hiller stated as it relates to the other presentations tonight, when the 60-day extension was agreed to
at the last meeting, it was his understanding that a fairly detailed plan would be put together by the
citizens. Hiller noted it would require several million dollars to purchase the property, redevelop it to the
alternate vision, and then there would also be ongoing costs to run whatever it is in the future. Hiller
commented he sees no evidence that the money raised is anywhere near that amount. While it appears
that a lot of the work has been done to convince the City Council to just say no, that creates financial
problems for the Wenksterns and for Source Land. Hiller stated he has seen the financial information for
the golf course and noted that Grant has offered to provide the financial information if requested.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 20 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Hiller stated in terms of what has changed versus the 2010 Comprehensive Plan, the Wenksterns’
financial condition is a significant change and should qualify. Hiller stated it is also his understanding
that the City of Orono currently subsidizes its own golf course, which has been losing money, and that it
should not be hard to believe that Lakeview is also losing money. Source Capital has done its own
analysis of the market and in their opinion feel that this is a unique opportunity for a successful project.
Hiller noted they are using their own private money and that they have had a lot of unsolicited interest in
the site and about purchasing lots. Hiller indicated two entities were very interested in purchasing all of
the lots.
Hiller stated in light of everything that they have presented tonight, their request would be that the City
Council vote yes on the Comprehensive Plan amendment so they can begin work on the preliminary plat
application.
McMillan asked what step in the process they are at with Red Oak.
Hiller indicated they turned in their preliminary plat application last Friday and that their application
would be heard at a Minnetrista City Council meeting sometime in February.
Printup noted Council Member Bremer raised the potential of a slippery slope and asked what type of
precedent would be set by approving the Comprehensive Plan amendment.
Mattick stated a decision at this level does not necessarily set any broad precedent that the City Council
has to abide by each and every time. Mattick stated there is a request for a Comprehensive Plan
amendment and that the Council’s decision should be based on the merits of what this applicant has
brought forward on this site. Mattick noted this is one of the first times he has sat through a public
hearing where the developer’s attorney and the applicant’s attorney agree on the legal standard before the
City Council, which is that it is a legislative decision. Mattick indicated he is in agreement with that legal
analysis as long as the decision is based on a rational basis, which is the legal basis that must be met.
McMillan stated the City Council needs to make a determination on this application and that currently
there is an inconsistency between the historical zoning of this site and the Comprehensive Plan. While
people have stated they should hold Orono to its promise, McMillan noted in some ways Orono has two
promises going on right now. There is the promise of a future residential development that a property
owner is entitled to and another promise to preserve parks and open space under the Comprehensive Plan.
McMillan stated the City needs to reconcile that inconsistency, and that historically many of these private
open spaces in the City have been located in two-acre residential districts. Under the last Comprehensive
Plan revision, the City acknowledged that the present land use was open land space and that there are
perceived public benefits from existing private open space scattered around the City. McMillan stated
while there is no immediate desire on the City’s part to see this property developed, by declaring the land
as private open space, the City is recognizing and respecting this as private land. McMillan stated
ultimately the City is sending a mixed message with the current Comprehensive Plan guiding and zoning
being inconsistent.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
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Page 21 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
McMillan stated according to a 1995 state statute, the City is required to do some housekeeping and
reconcile that difference, which is where the City is at tonight. McMillan noted the application in front of
them creates a strict 120-day time frame in which to make this decision. Given the past history and
information that has been provided, McMillan indicated she will be voting in favor of amending the
Comprehensive Plan. McMillan stated the reasons she sees for approving this include the long-term
history of this property being seen as a residential property, the fact that two-acre residential zoning
continues to be compatible with the surrounding neighborhood, the fact that there exists adequate capacity
on this site for stormwater control, and that there will be traffic and buffering requirements that will be
required to be met as part of this development. In addition, the applicant will need to obtain proper
permits for septic and wells and the two-acre density will not overburden the City’s public safety
capacity.
McMillan stated although this property has been open space for a number of years and that she feels
empathy for the neighbors that would lose the open space, this property does not have any unique natural
resources. McMillan stated it is a golf course and golf courses are not necessarily a unique natural
resource unlike 140 acres of woods or a particular lakeshore property that might serve a benefit as far as a
public beach or that type of amenity. McMillan stated she does recognize and appreciate the concern
about the open space, but noted there are no natural resources issues on this property that would make the
City think this is something they should keep and possibly compensate the property owner for.
McMillan noted there was no formal process that was undertaken by the City in guiding this property as
open space under the Comprehensive Plan, which is important to take into consideration. McMillan
stated if the City is thinking of changing the zoning of a particular property, there needs to be a process
where the property owner is notified and brought before the City Council to discuss that change.
McMillan stated there was not a thorough examination conducted by the City about changing private
open space to public park land under the recent Comprehensive Plan, including possible ramifications to
the City or the property owner.
McMillan stated in her view it is important that private property rights are respected, which is good
government. McMillan indicated she did not really understand the Comprehensive Plan until she became
a council member and that it is a planning document that through the years has gained more and more
significance. When the first comprehensive plan was developed in the 1970s, it was considered more as a
broad philosophical plan. Through the years it has evolved into more micro-managing of individual sites
and density, especially as it relates to city sewer capacity. McMillan stated the basic philosophy of the
City’s Comprehensive Plan is terrific but the City has had some struggles implementing it over the
decades in regards to what the City desires and what the Metropolitan Council would like the City to be.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 22 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
McMillan stated changing the zoning to park and open space may be considered a taking by the City and
noted there was some discussion earlier tonight about the legal ramifications of that. McMillan stated if
the City gets into that situation, it could turn into a situation that affects all of Orono. In the past Orono
has typically acquired park land through donation, purchase or as part of the development process. The
City has never acquired park land by changing the Comprehensive Plan. McMillan stated if the City gets
an opportunity to look at this property in a different way than as a golf course or park land, issues of
compensation need to be looked at, but the property owner has the right to decide what choices he would
like to make with his property.
Bremer commented she was hopeful she would have seen a more definite alternative presented tonight,
but at this point a real alternative has not been one presented, which is an important point. Bremer
indicated she has a lot of different feelings about different properties in Orono, which most people have,
and that this is not the only time the City Council has had to step back and think about the options for a
particular property.
Bremer noted the City currently only realistically has one option so far for this property. Since the
property is currently zoned two-acre residential, the City’s options are to allow the zoning to stand and
change the Comprehensive Plan or change the Comprehensive Plan to some other type of residential
zoning. Bremer noted this property historically has been zoned for two acres, which makes it consistent
with the surrounding neighborhood.
Bremer indicated she has been struggling personally with not deciding between those two options, but
that the option presented by the residents tonight is not a viable option. Bremer stated if five years ago
the City Council had this conversation and looked at different zoning for this property, the City would
have engaged in discussion with the private landowner about changing the zoning and then the
Comprehensive Plan. Bremer stated the problem with that is it is random zoning not based on a real
applicant who has real property rights and not really planning for the future. Bremer indicated she loves
small developments and open space, which many people do, but pointed out that all developments were
open space at one time and there were people who were against it and people who were for it. Bremer
stated to impose after the fact five-acre zoning would be unfair to the landowner.
Bremer stated while that may be an option, two-acre residential zoning or some other type of residential
development are realistically the only two options available to the City Council at this point. Bremer
stated she is hopeful it will be a residential development that has sufficient controls on it to make it a
wonderful development.
Printup stated he has thought a lot about this application over the past few months and about being born
and raised in Orono and the importance of open space. Printup stated as he was growing up, he used to
see horses where there are now large homes and yards. Printup stated in regards to the comments made
by Council Member Bremer about protecting the rights of the property owner, those are important points
to keep in mind. Printup stated the City has to be being very cautious about protecting the community’s
standards of open space but noted the City could overreach itself in this case and take away the property
rights of the landowner. Printup stated in light of that, he would support this application.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 23 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Anderson stated she wanted to come to this meeting and hear something more concrete by the citizens.
Anderson commented she can picture some of these things happening that were envisioned by the
residents but that it is not a concrete proposal at this point. Anderson stated the vision of the residents
contained a number of great sentiments that she would like to see come to fruition, but when you look at
the historic use of this site, it was guided as park and open space and zoned two-acre residential.
Anderson stated she is wrestling most with that guiding principle, but that it has to be weighed against the
rights of the property owner. Anderson indicated it is a hard decision for her and at this point she is still
undecided.
Levang stated she has met with the citizens group and she appreciates all the passion that they bring to the
community. Levang stated she is grateful the citizens have challenged the City Council and enlightened
the Council, which is good government in action. Levang indicated she ran for City Council because she
wanted to know who was making the decisions in the City.
Levang noted she was not on the City Council when the Comprehensive Plan was created but that it is not
in line with the zoning for this property, which is a problem that must be resolved. Levang stated in her
view this should not be kicked down the road any further. Levang stated the Wenksterns have allowed
the residents to have use of this piece of property for a number of years and that she is thankful to them
for that, but noted it is private property, which is what has to be taken into account. Levang noted the
Comprehensive Plan talks about private open space, which reminds us that it is private space and brings
into consideration the property rights of the landowner.
Levang stated she does not feel the City has the resources to compensate the landowner in this case and
that in her view the standards that are required by the City will hold the developer responsible and will
take care of the environmental issues that have been raised. Levang indicated she will vote in favor of the
Comprehensive Plan amendment.
Bremer moved, Printup seconded, Application Nos. 13-3638 and 13-3639, Source Land Capital,
LLC (Pat Hiller) on behalf of Grant Wenkstern (Lakeview Golf), 405 North Arm Drive, to direct
Staff to draft a resolution approving the Comprehensive Plan amendment. VOTE: Ayes 4, Nays 1,
Anderson Opposed.
Anderson stated she does not necessarily agree with changing the Comprehensive Plan even with the
discrepancy with the zoning. Anderson stated the Comprehensive Plan is there for a purpose and that
nothing else has changed in the City since the last time it was reviewed to justify changing it.
(Recess taken from 9:31 p.m. – 9:44 p.m.)
(Kristi Anderson is no longer present)
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 24 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Hiller noted they have provided an updated sketch plan and that they would like to obtain the feedback
from the City Council.
Levang stated she would like to make it clear that what the City Council is agreeing to is a two-acre
minimum and that what is being proposed is an averaging of the lots, with some lots being around one
acre. Levang indicated she would not be in support of any lots that are below two acres.
Hiller asked whether 150-foot lot widths would be acceptable with two acre lots.
McMillan asked if that would be to accommodate cul-de-sacs.
Hiller indicated it would be helpful to have a little relief on the frontage to help with the shape of the lots
but that they could meet the two-acre minimum.
Bremer indicated she would be okay with that because without that option, they would be dealing with
straight lines, not meandering roads which would be unattractive and not good for the neighbors.
Hiller stated with the narrower lot widths, they would be able to lay out the homes more randomly, which
would be better visually.
McMillan stated she would be in favor of considering that if there is a solid aesthetic reason for the
narrower lots.
Levang stated she is having a difficult time comprehending the one entrance in and out of the
development, especially in light of the traffic counts.
McMillan stated in her view, given the number of homes and safety concerns, there should be two
entrances/exits to the development. McMillan indicated she does not have as big of a concern regarding
the intersection of North Arm and County Road 19, but that there should be an entrance on the northern
end of the development as well.
Hiller indicated they have attempted to be as responsive to the concerns raised to date as possible, but that
with the two acre minimums, the layout would need to be revised.
McMillan indicated she would prefer two acre lots, with a driveway right on to North Arm, and to avoid
cul-de-sacs whenever possible. McMillan stated her goal would be to have a rolling countryside and not
have it look too urban contrived. McMillan indicated she is not particularly in favor of cul-de-sacs.
McMillan stated what she is interested in knowing by the time of the preliminary plat is whether there
will be covenants and conservation easements and whether a homeowners association will be managing
the conservation areas versus individual property owners.
Hiller indicated they have eliminated the club house under the revised sketch plan and that they platted
the conservation easement to get to the average two acre layout. Hiller stated alternatively, if those areas
are put into an outlot and maintained by a homeowners association; the lots would no longer be two acres.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 25 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Hiller indicated there are two different ways to manage the land but that it would be impossible to get to
the two acre minimum if those areas are put into an association and they likely will have to be put into the
individual lots.
McMillan stated she has not looked at other developments where they allow the septic sites in
conservation easement but that in her view that would allow a little more flexibility. McMillan noted
right now the City requires wetland buffers, which is determined by the Watershed District, but the City
has some pretty strict rules for what is allowed in the buffers. McMillan stated she would like that further
refined at some point and that the Watershed District could provide some guidance in that area.
Hiller stated that has been part of the discussion with the Watershed District to date and that they will be
looking for their guidance on the type of vegetation that can be planted. Hiller stated he understands what
Mayor McMillan is saying and that they will work on that.
Hiller stated the important points he has gotten from the discussion with the City Council so far is that
they would like two acre minimum lots; two entrances into the development, and to maintain as much
conservation areas as possible but figure out how to better manage them. Hiller indicated a little
flexibility on the width of the lots would allow them a little more leeway in the layout. Hiller noted they
do have to keep the lots oriented within the septic zones that have been tested, which somewhat limits the
number of options and number of lots, but that they feel they can live with that.
McMillan stated if there are some odd lots that are unbuildable or are added to another lot after the
requirements are met from the Watershed District, the City Council would be open to discussing ideas of
further enhancements that are not necessarily a strict requirement but would add value to the site.
Hiller asked whether the City Council would be interested in seeing another set of sketches prior to the
formal preliminary plat application. Hiller noted the layout will be different than what has been presented
tonight based on the discussion so far.
McMillan stated because this is a large development for Orono that might be a good idea due to the
sensitivity of this development.
Hiller indicated they would prefer to do that rather than spending a bunch of money platting everything
out on the preliminary plat. Hiller stated they will notify Staff once they have something developed and
then bring it to the City Council.
McMillan noted in addition to the need to filter the water, they will also have to deal with the rate of
water runoff. McMillan indicated the runoff goes pretty fast off the site given the elevation and that the
Watershed District could work with them to help slow that runoff down.
Hiller stated some of the natural pathways contain drain tile that will need to be redone, which will be part
of the rehabilitation of the site.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 26 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Levang indicated she is not in favor of the cul-de-sacs, but noted that by opening up that road, one
cul-de-sac has been eliminated. Levang asked if any thought has been given on how it can be designed
without cul-de-sacs.
Mike Gehr stated they have gone to reasonable lengths in reviewing and understanding the Conservation
Design easement ordinance, the Rural Oasis Study, Chapter 3 of the Comprehensive Plan, Orono’s
Natural Resource Inventory and designed a concept plan that is approaching the goals of the Rural Oasis
and conservation. Gehr stated the reason for the two cul-de-sacs on the southwest of the parcel is a
drainageways and some steep slopes that they are attempting to avoid.
Gehr stated in terms of an alternative to a 120-foot or a 100-foot turnaround, as has been suggested here, a
T configuration might work in this situation. Gehr stated those sorts of things work fairly well, but that it
is a matter of physical limitations in terms of going from North Arm down to the bottom of the ravine and
then ascending up again. Gehr indicated that might increase the site grading but they will look at that.
McMillan stated minimizing the grading is important but noted there will not be the issue of tree removal
on this site.
Hiller stated it would also help minimize the grading by staying on the plateaus but that may require some
cul-de-sacs.
McMillan asked if these will be custom style homes or whether there are any certain styles of homes that
will be built.
Hiller indicated they would be custom homes but there are no exact designs at this time.
McMillan stated if every home is going to be custom built, then it will not be necessary to bring in
designs, but if they are anticipating certain materials to be used, the Council would like to see those.
Hiller noted the Red Oak development will consist of lower priced homes.
Levang asked whether it is their intent to have both developments going at the same time.
Hiller stated the idea is to get started on Red Oak this summer and that he is not sure when they will be
ready to go ahead with Lakeview.
McMillan asked whether this development would be phased in.
Dave Nash indicated it would be partially dependent on what option is used for the water and that the
initial grading will be for the roads. Nash stated on this size site, even though it is 140 acres, it is the type
of site that would likely be designed and graded at one time, especially if there is a water main installed.
Hiller asked whether the Council prefers city water or wells.
McMillan asked if the site would have to be designed a lot differently with one option versus the other.
MINUTES OF THE
SPECIAL ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, January 6, 2014
7:00 o’clock p.m.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Page 27 of 27
(1. #13-3638 and #13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL, LLC (PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN (LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE – COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Hiller stated in his view it would not impact the layout of the site and that both options cost
approximately the same. Hiller noted city water would also give the City the ability to put hydrants in.
Bremer indicated she would prefer the city water option. Bremer noted a number of residents have
approached her with concerns about water use with this development.
Gaffron asked what the source of Minnetrista’s water is.
Hiller indicated he does not know where the well is but that the water tower is located down County Road
151. Hiller stated to his understanding they have three separate water systems but that they can look into
that.
Gaffron stated he is assuming Minnetrista’s well is deeper than the aquifer.
Hiller thanked the City Council for their input on the development.
The City Council took no formal action on the sketch plan.
ADJOURNMENT
Bremer moved, Printup seconded, to adjourn the Special Orono City Council meeting at 10:08 p.m.
VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
ATTEST:
______________________________________ _______________________________________
Rachel Dodge, City Clerk Lili Tod McMillan, Mayor