HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-12-2013 Council Minutes �
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
ROLL CALL
The Orono City Council met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Mayor
Lili Tod McMillan, Council Members Cynthia Bremer, Lizz Levang, and Aaron Printup. Representing
Staff were City Administrator Jessica Loftus,Assistant City Administrator for Long-Term Strategic
Planning Michael Gaffron,Planning Coordinator Melanie Curtis,Public Works Director/City Engineer
Jesse Struve, City Attorney Andrea McDowell Poehler,and Recorder Jackie Young. City Council
Member Kristi Anderson arrived at 7:33 p.m.
Mayor McMillan called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
CONSENT AGENDA
Item Nos.4, 5, 6, 9 through 15 were added to the Consent Agenda.
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. VOTE: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
*2. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION OF OCTOBER 28,2013
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve the minutes of the Orono City Council Work Session
of October 28,2013,as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
*3. REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF OCTOBER 28,2013
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve the minutes of the Orono City Council meeting of
October 28,2013,as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS—DENISE LESKINEN,REPRESENTATIVE
Leskinen reported the Planning Commission has completed its initial review of the City's alternative
energy ordinance and a public hearing on the draft ordinance will be held at the November 18 Planning
Commission meeting.
LMCD REPORT—ANDREW MCDERMOTT,REPRESENTATIVE
McDermott stated approximately 98 percent of the docks on Lake Minnetonka have been taken in. At its
meeting last week,the LMCD reviewed a de-icing permit from Sailor's World. McDermott noted the
current owners for the past two or three years have had no issues and the permit was renewed by the
LMCD with the maj ority of the restrictions on the permit being removed. The restrictions regarding the
flashing light near the City's access point and the snow fence are still in effect. .
Page 1 of 36
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MINUTES OF THE '
ORONO CTTY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(LMCD REPORT—ANDREW MCDERMOTT,REPRESENTATIVE, Continued)
The LMCD will be holding its Lake Minnetonka boater safety education pilot program this Saturday from
8 a.m.to 5 p.m. T'he fees to attend are being covered by the Hennepin County Sheriffls Water Patrol. At
the current time there are approximatelyl5 participants signed up,with room for 30 students. The
program consists of a full day of training. There will be a final exam and the students will receive a
certificate upon successful completion.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
None
PLANNING DEPARTMENT REPORT
*4. #13-3622 LANDSOURCE,LLC (TODD HOLMERS), 1645 SHADYWOOD ROAD,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL—RESOLUTION NO. 6338
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to adopt RESOLLJTION NO. 6338,a Resolution Approving a
Preliminary Plat for the Property Located at 1645 Shadywood Road. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
*5. #13-3623 CLAIItSON DUTRA ON BEHALF OF LIN YAN, 1330 CHERRY PLACE,
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND VARIANCE—RESOLUTION NO. 6339
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 6339, a Resolution Granting
Variances from Municipal Zoning Code SecNons 78-1279,78-1282,and 78-1680,and a Conditional
Use Permit Pursuant to Municipal Zoning Code Section 78-966,for the property located at 1330
Cherry Place. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
*6. #13-3626 LORI GHERADRI OB/O STEPHENSON HOLDINGS,INC.—PLAT OF PINE
VIEW—STREET NAME ASSIGNMENT FOR PINE VIEW DRIVE
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve the assignment of the name Pine View Drive to the
private road in the plat of Pine View. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC (TODD HOLMERS),3700 NORTHERN AVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARY PLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT
Todd Holmers,Applicant,was present.
Gaffron stated the applicant is requesting preliminary plat approval for a residential subdivision to create
six individual residentia�building lots for single-family homes. The proposed development would require
a conditional use permit to allow development via the Planned Residential Development process.
Page 2 of 36
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� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS), 3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARY PLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
The Planning Commission has reviewed this application on two occasions. The plans reviewed at the
October meeting were revised based on comments received at the September Planning Commission
meeting. The initial proposal in September included the use of back lots which would have resulted in
most of the site being graded and developed. The Planning Commission felt the use of back lots would
not conform to all code requirements,reduces the ability to preserve a substantial portion of the property,
and has potential stormwater management issues.
As a result,the Planning Commission did not support the use of back lots for this subdivision and
recommended that the applicant develop the site as a planned unit development rather than as a standard
plat,with all homes being located near Northern Avenue. In addition,the Planning Commission
recommended that dedication of the right-of-way for Northern Avenue be limited to 30 feet since
dedication of more than 30 feet would be inconsistent with the adjacent 1983 dedication and would result
in the creation of nonconfomiing setbacks for existing homes if it were extended eastward.
Gaffron stated the property consists of approximately five acres and is mostly wooded. There is a one-
acre wetland in the center of the property which makes it difficult to create an efficient layout in which to
position homes on one-half acre parcels throughout the site. There is also considerable desire on the part
of the neighborhood to preserve as much of the natural character of the site as possible. Gaffron noted the
lots in the surrounding neighborhood vary widely in size.
The revised proposal reviewed at the October Planning Commission meeting included two optional
layouts. Option 1 would create six long,narrow lots extending the full depth of the property. Each of the
homes located near Northern Avenue would have their own driveway. The northerly portion of each lot
would be subject to a conservation easement,with the land owned by the individual lot owner. In
addition to the easement, a walking path among and between the six lots was recommended by the
Planning Commission to primarily allow for access to the rear of the lots and to the conservation area.
Gaffron noted the applicant prefers Option 1.
Option 2 would create six small lots near Northern Avenue plus one large outlot to the north which would
be subject to a conservation easement that would be owned by an association rather than the individual lot
owners. Option 2 would be a PRD. Staff prefers Option 2 due to the future maintenance of the
stormwater ponds and the potential for individual property owners to build accessory buildings.
(Jesse Struve leaves the meeting at 7:13 p.m.)
The Planning Commission recommended that the applicant,in addition to the establishment of a
Conservation Easement within each lot, should provide a walking path easement among and between the
six lots should be granted to primarily allow for access to the rear of the lots which have dry land
separated by the wetland,but to also allow the six owners to have access to the conservation area.
Page 3 of 36
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MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #I3-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS), 3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARYPLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
The City Council should consider the following:
1. Does the Council agree with Staff and Planning Commission that development of this site
should be via the Planned Residential Development process? Gaffron noted that development
via the PRD process is technically a conditional use in the LR-1C district and requires
concurrent approval of a conditional use perxnit.
2. Does the Council have any issue with the number,width,or usable depth of lots proposed?
The property contains 3.74 acres of dry buildable land net of the wetland and required road
dedication,which would potentially allow up to seven half-acre lots. Under Option 1,the
applicant is proposing six lots ranging in dry buildable area from 0.72 to 0.82 acres. Lots 3,4,
and 5 have a portion of their dry buildable on the far side of the wetland. Option 2 also
proposes six lots, each containing only dry buildable land,with lot sizes ranging from 0.18
acresto 0.43 acres.
The layout under either options allows for lot widths of 78 feet,which is less than the 100-foot
standard for the LR-1C district but sufficient to allow homes up to 50 feet plus in width while
meeting the required 10-foot side setback requirements. The proposed homes on either of the
two end lots are also shown as having 15-foot side setbacks to the existing neighboring homes
as an added buffer to the neighborhood.
Under either option,Lots 3,4,and 5 would also be limited in buildable depth by the MCWD
required wetland buffer,the City's 10-foot setback from the edge of the buffer, and the front
setback. This results in little flexibility for house placement and design.
The applicant has performed a Conservation Design analysis and one of the recommendations of the
report was to preserve the tree border adjacent to Northern Avenue; although,they do not go as far as to
recommend a conservation easement be established there.
Staff recommends the following:
1. Process the subdivision as a PRD which will allow for a defined relaxation of lot area,width,
hardcover, lot coverage, and other applicable standards.
2. While Staff favors site plan Option 2, which preserves the northerly portions of the property in
a single homeowners association-owned outlot subject to a Conservation Easement,either
Option 1 or 2 is workable.
3. If visual density is a concern,require one or more of the methods noted above that could
reduce the crowding effect.
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` MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #I3-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS),3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARYPLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
4. Approval should be subject to the standard platting requirements including park dedication,
stormwater trunk fees, granting of appropriate easements, etc.,to be defined and enumerated
in a resolution for preliminary plat approval.
5. Council should advise Staff and applicant of any concerns regarding any aspects of the proposal
that needs to be further addressed.
Bremer noted the Planning Commission's preference was Option 1 and asked whether that was in part
directed by the applicant.
Gaffron stated that would be a fair statement.
McMillan asked how many lots could be developed if it was constructed to code.
Gaffron stated in his opinion, if all the codes were complied with, it would likely result in five lots and it
would go back to the proposal that has the back lots where they would need to have one and a half acres.
Two of the other lots would have half an acre of dry buildable and one lot would have less than that.
Gaffron indicated the wetland in the center of the property makes it difficult to do a standard plat and the
applicant is pretty much tied to using the existing road and utilities.
McMillan stated in her view it sounds like four would fit in more comfortably than five.
Gaffron stated it would be difficult to get five lots without having back lots.
Printup asked if outlots are taxed.
Gaffron stated typically the assessor will take the value of the common area and split it among each of the
building sites.
Levang asked if the outlots would be managed by a homeowners association.
Gaffron indicated they would be and that the City would need to ensure that any common areas receive
the appropriate classification.
Levang asked what would happen if the outlot is removed from the calculation and the Council requires
half-acre lots that are 100 feet in width.
Gaffron noted Page 2 of the October 17 memo shows the lot acreages. Gaffron stated the total dry
buildable land would be just over two acres of dry land,within the outlot there would be two acres, and
the remaining would be wetland.
Levang stated per the eacisting zoning, 100-foot wide lots and one-half acre dry contiguous land would be
required.
Page 5 of 36
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MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS), 3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARYPLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
Gaffron stated that is correct, and unless there is a PRD, it would not be possible to obtain six lots.
McMillan stated leaving the back portion of the property is an amenity to the development and adds value
to the other lots. McMillan stated she does not see the rationale for having development in the back
portion of the site.
McMillan asked whether the rain gardens were added by the applicant. McMillan stated in her view it
would be best to leave the natural areas as is.
Gaffron stated the rain gardens were the recommendation of the City Engineer and the applicant's
engineer. Gaffron stated to his knowledge they were a requirement of the Watershed District and that
there were concems raised by the neighbors about the runoff and drainage.
George Stickney stated he is here representing the Slechta family and working with Land Source to
provide some guidance to the development. Stickney commented the proposal has come a long ways
since September and that he personally did not like the original plan but it was more conforming than
Options 1 or 2. Stickney stated they could have done four lots with two outlots on each side to get to six
lots,but as a result of the September meeting, it was decided they should not constnxct in the back portion
of the property.
Stickney noted out of 37 properties in the area,more than half do not meet the one-half acre minimum,
and that in his view the PRD is the right solution. Stickney stated they reverted to Option 1 as a result of
the Planning Commission meeting.
Stickney noted they are not creating a private road and that they would prefer not to forxn a homeowners
association to manage the conservation easement. Stickney indicated they are amenable to creating a nice
walking path around the property to allow access back there and that there could be a covenant filed
against the title stating that certain portions of the site are not to be built upon. Sticlrney indicated it
would be better from a marketing standpoint if there are six lots and it would also create more taYable
value for the City if there were six lots.
Stickney stated there was one person that spoke at the October Planning Commission meeting about the
driveway on the east side. The location of the new house will be in approximately the same spot as the
existing house. Stickney indicated there will also be a tree preservation agreement and a nice walking
path to provide access to the rear of the property.
(KrisN Anderson arrives at 7:33 p.m.)
McMillan asked how the rain gardens were developed.
Stickney indicated he was not part of that discussion. Stickney noted their revised proposal results in 40
percent less hardcover than the original proposal.
McMillan asked if the Watershed District had any input into the rain gardens.
Page 6 of 36
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` MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS),3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARYPLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
Stickney stated Mark Gronberg created the plan.
McMillan asked if there would need to be a homeowners association for the outlot.
Levang stated to her understanding it is an option and that it could either be set up that each individual
owner owns a portion of it or it could be a common area.
Gaffron stated there will be maintenance issues with the outlot, and that without a homeowners
association of some sort,there will be a question about ownership. Gaffron stated he does not see a
simple way to have the outlot without it being owned by the group as a whole.
Printup asked if Staff knows how many homeowners associations there are in the City.
Gaffron stated the City does not keep track of individual homeowner associations but that they range from
formal to informal. Gaffron indicated there are probably around 60 homeowners associations and that
they correlate with the private roads.
Levang asked how the trail was developed.
Stickney stated that came about as a result of the meeting and his prior development experience.
Levang stated she is not in favor of the trail.
Gaffron stated in order for some of the lots to gain access to the back part of their property,it would be
necessary for there to be a path. Gaffron stated it is likely the trail would need to be within the buffer,
which would likely not be approved by the Watershed District.
McMillan stated she has a difficult time creating more than four lots and that one of the purposes of
cluster development is to preserve open spaces. McMillan stated the issue with clustering on this lot is
that the southern portion of the site is maxed out.
Stickney commented they could also construct a road back there which would not be ideal.
Levang noted this is a piece of land that has not been developed previously.
Stickney stated they are not proposing anything out of the ordinary as it relates to lot sizes.
McMillan stated a lot of the lots around Lake Minnetonka were platted prior to the adoption of many of
the City's regulations. McMillan stated this is an opportunity to develop this piece of land to code and
that there has to be some very strong reasons to cluster and add more density to this area. McMillan
noted the City did approve cluster development at Creekside due to the topography. McMillan stated
while this property does have a wetland, development is not overly difficult as it relates to the
topography. ,
Page 7 of 36
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MINLTTES OF THE '
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS), 3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARY PLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
Stickney stated the Planning Commission felt they were well within the range of acceptability with the
number of lots. Stickney noted they have been going through this process for seven or eight months and
that they could create something that would comply but be a lot less desirable. Stickney stated he is
surprised at the discussion about limiting it to four lots.
Levang noted the Council looks at each application individually and that she would like to see this
application tabled or denied.
Stickney stated this discussion is the opposite of what they envisioned.
Anderson noted she attended both Planning Commission meetings and that she was more in favor of the
smiley face PRD option. Anderson indicated she liked the idea of the homeowners association taking
care of the outlots and that a number of the neighbors indicated they enjoyed the natural area.
Levang stated she also attended both Planning Commission meetings and that she did not like the plan
either time because in her view the density is too high. Levang stated in her view the back portion of the
property should be preserved with a conservation easement and that she would like to see a proposal with
100-foot wide lots,one-half acre density,and no trail.
McMillan indicated she agrees with Council Member Levang.
Bremer indicated she prefers Option 1 and that she generally likes the idea of a conservation easement
versus an outlot. Bremer stated she would agree to either Option 1 or Option 2 depending on what the
other Council members thought.
McMillan stated four lots without the back outlot would also be fine but that it would not be ideal to add
more density to a site that comfortably fits four. McMillan stated the developer is attempting to max out
the property.
Stickney noted the dry buildable is .63.
McMillan noted the wetland in the middle makes it more difficult and that the dry buildable is not all
contiguous.
Printup asked at what point it would be necessary to send the application back to the Planning
Commission.
Gaffron indicated the City Council has that option at any time. Gaffron noted the 120-day deadline for
review expires January 7 and that the application would not go to the Planning Commission until mid
January. If that would occur,the applicant would need to agree to an extension. If the applicant does not
agree to an extension,the City Council would need to deny the application at some point before the
deadline expires.
Page 8 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS), 3700 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARY PLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
Gaffron noted the Planning Commission is a recommending body and that the City Council does not need
to follow their direction. Gaffron stated in his view it would be good if there was a consensus reached
between the Planning Commission and City Council.
Stickney noted Option 1 has less hardcover than Option 2. Stickney stated Staff has a number of
examples that have worked in the City that are similar to this proposal. Stickney stated they are keeping
the lots away from anyone who has a visible objection to the development and that in his view the
discussion at the Planning Commission about the smiley face option was very good. Stickney stated the
discussion tonight is somewhat of a shock.
McMillan stated the City Council could table it and he could go back to the property owner and discuss
the concerns that have been raised tonight
Stickney stated in his view the plan with six lots is a great plan.
Anderson moved,Bremer seconded,Application No. 13-3631,Landsource,LLC (Todd Holmers),
3700 Northern Avenue,to direct Staff to draft a resolution for preliminary plat approval subject to
Staff recommendations.
Printup stated the question he has is whether the idea of it being reduced to four or five lots has been
discussed.
Gaffron indicated it has not.
Printup asked whether the concept of fewer lots should be considered by the Planning Commission.
McMillan stated in her view it does not need to be sent back to the Planning Commission and that the
City Council can review it.
McMillan opened the meeting up to public comment at 7:50 p.m.
Ralph Kempf, 3675 Togo Road, stated approximately 15 people were in attendance at the first meeting
discussing this application. Kempf stated that this is a very special area. There is a wetland that covers
the entire center of the property and it is the western side of the property that drains the entire area
between Sunset and Shadywood, down to the Dakota Trail, and then all the way over to Lake Minnetonka
and Lord Fletchers. Kempf noted all of the water in that drainage area drains down to Lake Minnetonka.
Kempf stated the first proposal had driveways running all the way to the back of the site. When it rains,
the runoff flows to the east and up to Lake Minnetonka. The first proposal had driveways going back to
the rear portion of the site,which would result in all of the drainage going into culverts. Kempf stated in
his view it makes more sense for the water to naturally filter and cleanse. There was also hardcover
almost all the way around the pond. Kempf indicated the neighborhood was thrilled to see the houses
pulled back to Northern Avenue.
Page 9 of 36
MINUTES OF THE '
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(7. #13-3631 LANDSOURCE,LLC(TODD HOLMERS), 3�00 NORTHERNAVENUE,
SUBDIVISION—PRELIMINARYPLAT—PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT,
Continued)
Kempf stated this development will change the character of the whole neighborhood. Originally there
were a bunch of cabins that have since become year-round homes. Kempf stated the opportunity to really
define the neighborhood is here,and if the houses are packed in tightly,it will define the neighborhood
Kempf asked for clarification on the motion.
McMillan indicated the motion is to approve Option 1,which is the proposal for six houses in a row on
the southern part of the property with the property lines going north. McMillan stated there would be no
outlot.
Anderson noted there would be a conservation easement as opposed to an outlot.
Kempf stated it is an unofficial wildlife preserve and that the trail around the pond does not make much
sense.
Lynn Peterson, 3710 Togo Road, stated she would like to see four 100-foot lots. Peterson stated while
there are some lots in the area that are smaller,the City ought to try to preserve the 100-foot lot width and
not go backwards to when they were cabins. Peterson indicated she would like to see the area less
densely populated. While the family would like to be able to sell more lots,the City should do the right
thing and limit the density.
Mayor McMillan closed the public comment portion at 7:56 p.m.
McMillan stated in her view four lots can be built according to code and that under that scenario they
would not be maxing out the property,which is a win/win. McMillan indicated she cannot support
Option 1. McMillan stated under Option 1,there should be a maximum of five lots and preferably four.
McMillan stated she does not have a problem with the lot lines going through the conservation easement,
and with a maximum of four lots a rain garden would not be needed.
VOTE: Ayes 3,Nays 2,McMillan and Levang opposed.
8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER)OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF),405 NORTH ARM DRIVE,COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW
Pat Hiller,Applicant,was present.
Steve Grittman stated the application before the City Council is a proposed amendment to the City's
Comprehensive Plan that would re-guide the Lakeview Golf property from parks,recreational,and open
space to rural residential. The applicants have also provided a sketch plan for Council's review. Both of
these items were heard by the Planning Commission at their October 21 meeting. A public hearing was
held at that time to consider the Comprehensive Plan amendment and to comment on the sketch plan.
Page 10 of 36
� MINUTES OF TAE
ORONO CITY COUNCII.MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #I3-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Grittman noted the sketch plan is not subject to formal approval or denial but is to help illustrate the
development idea proposed by the applicant. T'he proposal is to convert the golf course to rural
residential. The property is currently zoned rural residential RR-1B,which does accommodate golf
courses and reflects the historical use of the property. Eventually, if this application does proceed
forward, a preliminary and final plat would be required and possibly a PRD zoning designation depending
on the plat.
Grittman noted there are several other agencies involved in the review of the project, such as Hennepin
County as it relates to access to county roadways,review of the plat and survey;the Minnehaha Creek
Watershed District as it relates to stormwater management,re-vegetation and land restoration on portions
of the site; and the Metropolitan Council as it relates to the Comprehensive Plan amendment. Each of
those agencies would have a role in reviewing and/or approving certain parts of the plat or project.
The first step of the application involves the Comprehensive Plan amendment. Amendments to the
Comprehensive Plan review factors include compatibility of the proposed change with the intent of the
Comprehensive Plan; compatibility of the proposed land use with other existing and proposed land uses in
the area.; the ability of the proposed land use to be served by existing public services and existing
transportation facilities; and changes in conditions since the adoption of the current Comxnunity
Management Plan suggesting that a change in land use policy and objectives is in the best interest of the
community. The City is not precluded from considering interim changes if there is reason to do so.
The Community Management Plan is the community's most basic statement of its land use policy. The
City is granted broad discretion in setting land use policy and is permitted to regulate,through zoning and
subdivision controls,to achieve its policy objectives. The existing Community Management Plan has a
land use component.
Grittman stated the dark green in the middle of the map is the golf course designated parks and
recreational and open space. The light green to the south of the proposed development is rural residential,
which is one unit per two acres and is the zoning the applicants are seeking. The yellow area to the east
and southeast of the golf course is the MUSA area and is subject to metro sewer. That area is guided low
to medium density,which are two to three units per acre typically. In addition,the Community
Management Plan has a category of rural, which is one to five acres. The Comprehensive Plan describes
that area typically as the northwest area.
Grittman noted rural environment is a major objective of the City's Community Management Plan. Rural
residential is the predominant land use in the area. If a council is going to change the compatibility of a
piece of property,the surrounding land use is one of the factors to consider. Grittman noted there are
urban land uses within the MUSA that exist to the east and south. MUSA is not proposed to be extended
into this development. Most of the proposed development services are proposed to be private so there
should be relatively minimal impacts on general city public services as a result of the change.
Page 11 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #I3-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Grittman stated from a Comprehensive Plan standpoint,the surrounding land uses are predominantly rural
residential. The current zoning is RR-1B,which allows rural residential development at one dwelling unit
per two acres of dry land. The roadways in this area are definite issues and are factors that any developer
would have to consider. Access to the neighboring roads and North Arm Drive,which currently serves
the golf course,will need to be addressed. Improvements to the roadways, if deemed necessary,would be
studied as part of the preliminary plat submission.
Grittman noted retaining the current open space designation is not economically viable for the private
land owner. Grittman stated the City cannot compel a single property owner to provide public space out
of the scope that other individual property owners contribute to that cause.
Grittman stated the sketch plan review from the City's perspective is to identify issues or objectives and is
not an approval or denial. A sketch plan review is the City's opportunity to explain to the developers
what the City would like to see happen with the property. Since the information is still preliminary at this
point,the comments are intended to help all parties understand the requirements for a full plat design and
give everyone an understanding of what the base line rules are going to be.
As it relates to the overall view of the sketch plan,the proposal is based on 118 acres of dry buildable
land. The proposal consists of two possible altemative layouts,with one of those offered as the preferred
alternative for the property. The second option is a layout that is based on the allowable density under the
proposed amendment and follows the current zoning. The second option is based on preliminary site data
and the lot count would need to be verified.
Grittman indicated the first plan illustrates an alternative that would utilize the threshold unit count under
the zoning and land use plan and then cluster those lots to the higher portions of the site. By reducing the
lot sizes and clustering the as shown in the plan,the applicants would propose to retain a significant
portion of the site for open space. Much of this preservation area is shown around the perimeter of the
site.
The layout proposed in Option 1 is a traditional layout with full development of the property except for
the wetlands. There would be approximately 6,500 lineal feet of roadway. There are four road
connections to existing roadways in the sketch which include two roadways to North Arm Drive and two
road connections to West Branch that are shown to provide access to the lots within the project. There are
four lots with direct access to the existing street,with the remaining lots having access to the new street
within the development. There are no other significant amenities as part of the development that are
outlined in the sketch plan.
Subject to all the data that would need to be provided as part of a plat application,the question is whether
the City is more inclined to a PRD or the traditional two acre zoning. The Planning Commission's
recommendations were to follow the PRD approach and retain the common open space. The Planning
Commission also commented on how to address traffic,pedestrian issues, stormwater management issues,
and septic suitability on the smaller lots.
Page 12 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Staff is recommending approval of the Comprehensive Plan Amendxnent and finds the following:
1. The existing land use designation no longer provides a viable use of land for a private property
owner.
2 The land use designation, in this case,unreasonably restricts the owner's use of the land in an
economically viable way.
3. The restriction to the current designation places an inordinate burden on the landowner to provide
public open space.
4. The surrounding land uses are dominated by rural density residential uses, along with some urban
residential uses.
5. The area is not within the MUSA, in which public sanitary sewer would be available for urban
densities.
6. The area is within the northwest portion of the City, in which road uses and densities are
designated.
7. The most appropriate use for the subject project is Rural Residential,reflecting the policies of the
Comxnunity Management Plan and the existing zoning of the property.
McMillan asked if the applicant can begin any work on the preliminary plat during this comment period
for the Comprehensive Plan amendment.
Grittman stated the applicant can proceed with work on the site but that they do so at their own risk.
McMillan asked if there would be an opportunity to look at the preliminary plat at the same time as
adoption of the amendment.
Grittman indicated that is probably more local practice and that he would defer to Staff on that. Grittman
noted the Council would not be able to take action on the plat until the Comprehensive Plan amendment
is adopted.
City Attorney Poehler indicated the Council could do it concurrently if they chose.
Printup asked why this area was originally guided recreational and open space in the Comprehensive
Plan.
Page 13 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Gaffron stated the map that showed existing land use was showing what was existing in the 1980s. In the
1990s,Metropolitan Council's requirements for local comprehensive planning included a requirement
that the City not only show the existing plan but a proposed plan. The 2000 Comprehensive Plan did not
change much in the way of open space and this property, in the last two comprehensive plans, is shown as
existing open space and proposed open space,which did not change between 1980 and 2000. Gaffron
stated the impact of what is in the plan changed as a result of state statute requirements.
Printup asked if there are any other areas in the City that might prove as difficult as this situation.
Gaffron stated if any of the other privately owned golf courses wanted to change to residential use,the
same process would be required.
Printup asked whether they also have this underlying zoning.
Gaffron stated every one of the golf courses is classified as RR-1B,two-acre single faxnily zoning,but
each of them is also designated as park land,recreation,and open space.
Pat Hiller,Applicant, stated when they initially took a look at the project,the objectives were to work
with the existing topography of the site,minimize the grading,work with the natural beauty of the site,
and maintain the open space and natural features of the site. Hiller stated they are proposing a concept of
clustering the lots to help maintain more open space,which,in their view,is more attractive. One of the
goals of the development is to create a legacy for the City and the Wenksterns that people will be proud
of.
Mike Gehr,Designer, stated he is currently under contract with five golf courses,including this one,to
redevelop the land. The parcel consists of approximately 130 acres of land and is bounded by North Arm
on the northeast,North Shore on the west,and West Branch on the south.
Gehr displayed a map of the property and noted the lightest colors on the site map are plateaus or
platforms situated throughout the 130 acres. T'he orange areas on the maps depict slopes and the blue
areas are the drainage pattems throughout the site. There are also two wetlands on the site consisting of
approximately nine acres. The lake on the property is at about a 920' or 930' elevation. As you go down
to the next plateau,there is a 50-foot elevation change. Gehr commented the site is very dynamic with a
nuxnber of different natural features that they will attempt to preserve as part of this project. The other
natural features on the site include savannahs and trees.
Gehr stated in their view the better use of the property is to cluster the development and protect or set
aside approximately 62 acres of the site into open space. At the present time 59 units on approximately
one acre lots are displayed on the map along with the road layout. In addition to clustering the
development,also being proposed is the use of cul-de-sacs to further micro-cluster units around the cul-
de-sacs. Every residential home site on the plan has direct rear yard or side yard access to the open space
system. There will be approximately 1.5 miles of trail that will connect the residential home sites
throughout the entire area. The majority of the existing woodland is intended to be left untouched and is
included within the green open space.
Page 14 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and I3-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTH ARM DRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
The open areas will be encumbered by an easement and protected in their natural state. Gehr stated the
cluster plan provides open space and an opportunity to enhance the natural environxnent,would have a
low impact use on the property, and provides valuable open space along with the walking trail. Gehr
stated in their view the cluster plan will help preserve the natural features of the site and provide a
significant amount of green space. The open space provides open separation and perceived separation
from outside the development and helps create a beautiful residential neighborhood. Gehr stated in his
view the cluster plan could serve as a model plan for other cluster developments in the community.
McMillan asked whether he has experience with clustering septic systems on one-acre lots before.
Gehr indicated he does on a project in Eagan that consisted of one acre lots,with primary and secondary
septic sites on the one-acre lots along with building pads.
McMillan asked whether he had any limits on footprint on the project in Eagan.
Gehr indicated he does not recall.
Anderson asked how they intend to protect the wooded savannah areas if each lot is being sold off to a
different contractor.
Gehr indicated that can be accomplished through the purchase agreement and that they would have to
define the limits of the septic area and other areas of preservation.
Anderson asked what would happen with the proposal if the cluster plan does not accommodate the 59
lots they are anticipating.
Hiller stated on October 15 they held an informal neighborhood meeting and several concerns were raised
at that time. The access to North Arm Drive was not well received by the neighbors due to the lack of
shoulders and the amount of traffic on the road. Hiller stated they are in agreement that that access would
not be the best and that they are now proposing a single entrance to the south to get the traffic off of North
Arm Drive. Hiller stated that location works better for the residents of North Arm Drive but the
neighbors on either side of the road were not thrilled with the proposal.
Hiller stated as a result of those concerns,they are proposing to relocate the road over to Forest Arm in
the hope that that would be the least offensive location. There will be two dedicated lanes in and out.
The idea would be to go with a single entrance and possibly an emergency breakaway area near a cul-de-
sac. Hiller indicated they met with representatives of Hennepin County today and generally they are in
line with the proposal.
Page 15 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Onsite preliminary septic testing is being conducted at the present time and the vendor is going through
the results and identifying areas throughout the site that will work for septic. Hiller stated in addition they
are also working on a subsequent design that will look a little different than what is before the Council
tonight based on the septic sites. Hiller stated in his view the open space and septic sites will be
appro�mately the same but will be in a slightly difFerent layout. Hiller stated once all of that is
completed,they will be able to determine the exact number of lots.
Hiller stated they have also met with the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District and they have indicated
they would like to be an active partner in the development of the property. The Watershed District has
done projects like this in the past and they have experts on the types of vegetation that would work in this
climate. The idea is to restore the areas with native grasses that will not be developed. In the end the
hope is to make it a more beautiful site than what elcists right now.
Hiller stated they are also looking at filter ponds to improve the water quality of the runoff going into the
bay. Another option is to bring water in from the City of Minnetrista to avoid the need to dig 59 wells.
Hiller indicated they will continue with septic testing and survey work.
Printup asked if the 59 homes is the best case scenario.
Hiller stated that would be the maximum number and the actual number will be based on the septic site
testing.
Mayor McMillan opened the meeting up for public comment at 8:45 p.m.
Paula Johnson, 580 North Arm Drive, stated as it relates to the re-guidance of Lakeview, it should be
pointed out that this is not a five or ten acre parcel but 130 acres and that it is the last big piece of land in
Orono that is not developed. The requested guidance would significantly impact the residents and would
undermine the intent of the Community Management Plan.
Johnson indicated she has read the City's Community Management Plan and the consultant's
recommendations. Johnson stated she respectfully disagrees with the consultant's findings. The
consultant states, in part,that the existing land use designation no longer provides a viable use of the land
for the private property owner,that the owner is restricted from an economically viable use, and that this
is an inherent burden.The consultant does not cite data or statistics of whether other alternatives were
considered.
Johnson stated her comments are confined to the Community Management Plan and the lack of attention
by the consultant on the salient portions of the plan and the impact on the plan that the re-guidance would
have. From the beginning pages that lay out the goals for each section,the Community Management Plan
and Lakeview seem to be inexplicitly linked. Johnson stated she would like to point to the foremost
guiding principle,which is that the goal of Orono's planning is to protect and preserve Lake Minnetonka,
its water quality and recreational assets. Johnson commented the Lakeview property is all of those.
Lakeview drains into North Arm and Forest Lake and is within the 100-foot overlay of Lake Minnetonka
on two of its three sides.
Page 16 of 36
' MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Johnson noted another goal of the City is to protect and preserve natural resources, including creeks,
lakes,marshes,wetlands,woodlands, ground water and steep slopes. Lakeview has virtually all of these.
In addition,the property embodies the dark skies and provides to at least those residents in the western
half of Orono the dark sky concept.
Johnson stated Orono's planning policies reinforce the se goals and that she would urge the City Council
to look at the Community Management Plan. The plan further says that no development would be
permitted that would have a detrimental effect on the lake and that historically significant buildings,
places and settings will be identified and preserved.
Johnson stated the environmental protection plan contained within the Community Management Plan
consists of exactly the same language for dark skies and preservation of historical places. Johnson noted
Lakeview has been a golf course for over 50 years.
Johnson stated as it relates to the City's park and open space trail plan,which is kind of the heart of where
the plan is significantly abrogated, it states that private open space and recreational facilities should be
available to complement public facilities. The language goes on to say that there are several of these
areas in Orono and they should be preserved. Johnson noted Lakeview is the only public course that is
privately owned and that when this property is taken out of the calculation that is included in the plan,it
leaves precious little land that is not designated truly private and barred from public use.
Johnson stated in her view the planners recognized this when they added to their plan the following
promise: The City will encourage the preservation of private open space and will identify and acquire
additional open space public parcels as the opportunity arises. Johnson commented what is really telling
is the middle of that,which says,however, once land is developed,the opportunity for preservation of
open space is lost. As it relates to Lakeview, it reads: The City will encourage retention and continued
operation of the private golf courses. These private facilities provide major active recreation in the City
and in addition provide aesthetic open space and open vistas to the benefit of all adjacent property owners
and the public alike. The City will discourage conversion of these facilities into non-recreational land use
because of the benefit of this recreational opportunity. It also states the City will continue to investigate
mechanisms for future funding and will continue to encourage private donations of land or funds in order
to maintain the level of active and passive recreation opportunities desired by Orono residents.
Johnson stated for those reasons she believes that the re-guidance of the Lakeview Golf Course as it is
currently proposed abrogates the plan and its goals. Johnson stated she would urge the Council to uphold
the current guidance while the City seeks with the residents other viable options for this property and that
one proposed deal should not be allowed to destroy the City's whole community management plan.
Bryce Johnson, 580 North Arm Drive, stated he has been asked to present a proposal to the City Council
from a large group of fellow citizens who desire to be heard on this matter. This group has coalesced
around the name of Citizens for Lakeview Preservation. The group began when 54 residents met at the
Lafayette Club. In one week the number of people who have identified with this effort and provided their
signatures has reached almost 500. Most of the signers have expressed significant concerns and others
have merely signed the petition.
Page 17 of 36
MINUTES OF TAE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8 #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Citizens for Lakeview Preservation include residents from all walks of life,all of whom have chosen to
invest in Orono. They have a vast magnitude of skill sets that are comxnitted to the spirit,intent,and
defense of the Community Management Plan. The group respects the fact that the owner of Lakeview has
the right to sell his property,they admire what he has done with the property over the years,and they
recognize there is a purchaser who has presented sketches and is requesting an amendment to change the
guidance.The group intends to provide fact-based timely input to the Council, seeks to protect the unique
and fragile environment of Lakeview, and it is driven by an intense desire shared by virtually everyone in
Orono and surrounding communities to retain this iconic and historic property as green as possible and
accessible as possible to the public. Johnson commented Lakeview is just not another golf course.
Johnson stated their proposal can be summarized in one slide: A request that the Council uphold the
Community Management Plan guidance,that it do this for at least 60 days following the expiration of the
initia160-day period on November 25, and that it do this so that efforts can go forward to define one or
more clear-cut,economically viable altematives that would allow the owner to sell his property without
the need to re-guide the site. Johnson indicated there has already been considerable thought and input
into this concept but more needs to be done. Johnson stated there are a number of state or governmental
entities that can be approached to help.
Johnson stated aspects of their proposal have already begun and that they have received early indications
of financial support. In parallel fashion,the group believes that the environmental and related analysis
and the decision to re-guide must be fully defined. The group believes this is essential before a credible
site plan or plat map can be proposed. The environmental values evident in the Orono Community
Management Plan are well defined and extensive. Johnson noted over 400 citizens have expressed their
concern for these issues through a petition.
Johnson stated other analyses and inputs are also likely in defining buildability and that those should be
important to any developer before asking for a guidance change. The citizens of Orono are confident that
the City will address the environxnental and buildability concerns,which is why many of the residents
moved to this area. The citizens also recognize that this will take time to do and that a 60-day delay will
be needed. Similarly,the group is optimistic that realistic, economically viable altematives can be
defined. The group also understands that much of this initiative must come from the citizens and that the
residents need time prior to the zoning being changed to look at other options.
(Recess taken from 8:57 p.m.to 9:08 p.m.)
(Cynthia Bremer and Jessica Loftus leave the meeting at 9:08 p.m.)
Tom Mazer, 560 North Arm Drive, stated he has lived in this area for approximately 40 years and that he
appreciates the opportunity to address an issue that is of grave concern to many citizens in Orono. Mazer
stated this proposal has the potential for a failed development and that it is something that should be
considered when talking about developments like this.
Page 18 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Mazer stated he would like to summarize one point from an article that was in the Star Tribune in April of
2010 entitled Gateway to Disaster. Ted Waite, founder of Gateway Computers, is part of Lakeland
Construction Finance,who is responsible for more than 20 residential developments on the outskirts of
the Twin Cities and St. Cloud that have gone into bankruptcy. The homes now stand unfinished and
abandoned. Families that built in places like Summit Hills,Dassell,and other areas now live in suburban
ghost towns surrounded by overgrown weeds and partially paved streets. The cities and the residents
where these and other failed developments exist are left with unsightly scars on the land and millions of
dollars in expenses to finish roads and utilities.
Mazer stated the reason he wanted to point out was not to question the abilities of this developer but to
note that even under the best of circumstances,projects like the ones that have been discussed may fail.
There are economic factors the developer has no control over and these factors can adversely affect the
success of any development. Mazer stated these same economic forces have made it difficult to operate
golf courses in the last five years.
Mazer stated if people look to the past,they will a situation where many developers had big visions of
planned communities that have failed. As people look into the future,Mazer questioned what
reassurances the residents have that this development will not also fail. Mazer stated the economy is
being supported by quantitative easing, and when the Federal Government decides to taper,mortgage
rates will rise and residential developments will fail again.
Mazer stated when he and other residents in Orono purchased their properties,they were given assurances
by the City through their zoning,their guidance,and the Comprehensive Plan that the property they have
invested in would remain intact. Mazer stated he believes the City of Orono has continually reaffirmed
the principles set forth in the Comprehensive Plan and these principles directly relate to the planned
development of Lakeview Golf Course. Orono is unique and has a number of talented residents and
resources to preserve what is important. Mazer encouraged the City Council to listen to the voice of the
people and take the time to consider the impact,the options,and the altematives to this request.
Steve Bell,4455 West Branch Road, stated he has resided in Orono for approximately 23 years. Bell
noted he sent a letter to the Council members earlier today and that he would like that letter to be made
part of the record.
Bell stated he is deeply concerned if this development proposal goes through that the fantastic experience
in Orono with its open space and rural character will end. Bell commented people have the right to
dispose of their property as they please,but that even in a democracy few rights are unlimited and they
should be balanced against the rights of everyone in the community.
Page 19 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Bell stated his specific request to the City Council tonight is to ask that the approval deadline be extended
for 60 days as permitted by Minnesota Statutes to allow for an adequate amount of time to explore
reasonable and economic viable alternatives for the golf course and to properly vet the environxnental
issues. The seller is maintaining and the Planning Commission seems to be supporting the concept that
the golf course is no longer economically viable. Bell noted he has not seen any facts on the record to
support this premise and there does not seem to be any factual basis to support three of Staff's fmdings on
this matter.
Bell noted approacimately a dozen years the City,the DNR,and a group of private residents were able to
save and preserve significant acreage in the Orono Saga Hill area and turn it into permanent park land.
The Saga Hill battle took a lot of hard work and creativity. While this developer mentioned leaving a
legacy,the City should ask whether the kind of legacy they want to leave is like that of Saga Hill or
whether they want to create a legacy where Orono starts to look a lot like Plymouth or Edina. Bell stated
the development is out of character with the neighborhood,the City,and inconsistent with the intent of
the Comprehensive Plan. Bell stated that principle is at stake depending on what action the Council takes
tonight and in future meetings and that everyone has a moral and legal obligation to prevent a quick
decision on something that is irrevocable that may affect future generations, if not centuries to come.
George Daniels, 1375 Park Drive, stated over the years he has walked his dog past the golf course and he
always thought,what a beautiful spot, and that he could envision a high-end residential community going
in there some day. Daniels stated nobody wants to see a business go downhill and that they all love the
open land and open space.
Daniels stated the people who want to preserve the golf course, from what he has read,do not make a lot
of sense since they already have the Orono Golf Course. Daniels stated in his view there are plenty of
places to play golf and that they ought to be looking at the people that are coming forward tonight.
Daniels stated the developers have hired the best landscape architects and are very qualified. The
developer wants to construct a viable,upscale,beautiful comxnunity, and that they are asking to cluster �
the houses to get 59 units in there so it is not two-acre lots all over the place. Daniels noted there is
appro�mately 142 acres of land available and 118 buildable acres.
Daniels stated from what he knows about the land development business,it is a long process and that they
have to go through a number of government agencies,which does not happen overnight. The local
residents knew the golf course was there,but now that people have stepped forward who want to take a
risk,they want to delay it. Daniels stated in his view the residential development is a good use of the
property. The golf course does not provide that much revenue to the City but 59 housing units will. If
each lot generates$10,000,that is a lot of revenue for Orono.
Page 20 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Daniels stated in his view this is a good project and that he would ask the City Council to move ahead on
the Comprehensive plan amendment and keep the application moving forward.
Stephen Hosmer, 1040 West Cove Lane,Minnetrista, stated he and his wife moved out to this area for the
open space. The area is beautiful and is a jewel in the crown of Orono. A site like this is not found
anywhere else in the City. Hosmer stated the presentations by the potential developer were excellent and
provided a vision of what the development could be.
Hosmer stated he would like to step back for a minute and go back to the first part of the application,
which is the Comprehensive Plan amendment. The Comprehensive Plan was done in the form of a
promise to the community and the surrounding communities that this is what the people in the community
could expect going forward. It says if open space becomes available,the City should attempt to acquire
that open space. What has happened is that a group of concerned citizens have gotten together to come up
with alternatives to the housing development and retain the open space. Hosmer stated the only way that
can happen is if the residents are given an opportunity to come up with their own concepts.
Hosmer noted the consultant indicated retaining the current open space is not viable,but is that known for
a fact. Hosmer asked whether residents have been given an opportunity to see if there are other ways to
retain the open space. The consultant also said that continued use of the golf course is not feasible.
Hosmer stated while the current way of running the golf course may not be feasible,there perhaps are
other ways that it could become financially feasible.
Hosmer stated the last point the consultant said was that the City cannot compel a single property owner
to provide public area or space. Hosmer noted the group is not asking the Council to compel the owner to
maintain this open space but that they are requesting an opportunity to acquire the space from him and
make him financially whole. The group is saying they will find a way where his needs will be met and
the directives of the Community Management Plan can also be followed,which is to keep,encourage,and
acquire open space.
Hosmer stated the Mayor indicated on the previous application that the development would be a short-
term gain for the developer which sometimes comes at the long-term expense of the City or words to that
effect. Hosmer stated in his view that is the case here. The developer will come in and be gone but
Orono will be left with that property. If you look over this contiguous section of approximately 120 acres
consisting of woods and open space,it will not be the same as houses clustered between roads and cul-de-
sacs. The City Council has a responsibility to consider that under the Community Management Plan and
how it will affect the community going forward. The City Council owes it to the residents to give them
60 days to come up with alternatives. The residents only just became aware of the proposal recently and
that the decision should be tabled for 60 days so the residents can develop something on their own.
Page 21 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Robyn Johnson,4730 North Arm Drive, stated she is here to ask the City Council to uphold the
recreational guidance for a golf course or delay the decision. The residents that are here tonight represent
hundreds of acres of land that is worth millions of dollars and many of them are here because they feel the
cart is before the horse. The residents laiow this is a lovely piece of land that is sandwiched between two
bays of Lake Minnetonka which the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District currently classifies as a C plus
or C minus in terms of water quality. The Watershed District restricts swimming and recreational
activities in both of these bays at times due to the nitrogen content of the water. Both of these bays are
within the 1,000 square foot restriction but they are actually within 100 to 200 feet of that. The
topography is extraordinary. As the consultant said tonight,the data is preliminary and the residents have
not known about the details of this project for more than 30 days.
Johnson indicated she read on the City's website that the City Council is elected to fashion policies that
determine this community's present and future well being,which extends to this moment in time and goes
for this time and hundreds of years from now. Orono benefits today from significant tax revenue. The
City receives seven million in taxable revenues with a balanced budget. Johnson stead she read in the
paper last weekend that Orono is ranked towards the top in the country for median values due to a number
of reasons. Johnson stated she does not believe there is a financial imperative that Orono's housing be
expanded immediately.
Johnson stated the application that has been presented to the City Council is an investment backed
exemption that would not stand up in a court of law if the City denied the property owner the right to sell.
The application is based on a concept and not an engineered plan. The sketch plan has been described by
the consultant as an illustration of an idea. The City Council's decision will leave many unanswered
questions relating to traffic safety,watershed and wetlands,water quality, aquifers, flooding stormwater
management, lake pollution,population expansion,marketability of homes, depreciation of land values,
city infrastructure,crime, and fire protection. Johnson stated the resulting aesthetics will be that the
neighbors will be looking at the backside of these homes that will encroach into their skyline vision.
Johnson stated this development will have an aesthetic impact no matter how much green space is around
it.
Johnson stated the citizens of Orono pay a premium to live here and that they benefit from the
Community Management Plan. The citizens elected the members to the City Council to implement the
objectives of the Community Management Plan. Johnson stated to her knowledge Orono has never
developed a subdivision of this magnitude.
Gaffron indicated there has not been a similar development.
Johnson noted the Eagan development is not located between bodies of water and does not contain the
same number of homes as what is being proposed. T'his property was never put on the market and
nobody was given the opportunity to determine whether there is another use for it. Johnson stated there
are a number of issues that need to be further explored prior to changing the zoning and that in her view
this plan is not compatible with existing and future land uses or in the best interests of the City's
Comprehensive Plan.
Page 22 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Michael Flannery, 525 Park Lane, stated the first inkling the community had was a letter that the
Wenksterns placed on the counter of the golf course stating that the golf course was being sold for
development. Flannerty stated in his view the Wenksterns had an alternative and could have said that the
golf course is no longer viable, can the community help us out. Instead,the community was presented
with the idea that this land would be sold for residential development.
Flannery noted the developer's drainage plan failed to show that the watershed drains into North Arm as
well.
Rene Sternau,440 North Arm Drive, stated he now has a mound system because his percolation system
failed by three-eighths of an inch. Sternau stated the City's engineer spent about a half hour to an hour
discussing how the water runs into North Arm and that the City of Orono requires it to be kept at a certain
percolation level that it was designed for. Stenau stated it is his feeling the builders will do a lot of that,
but that there are so many questions that are still left unanswered. Once the guiding is changed, it will be
gone. Sternau stated he would like to have those answers prior to the guiding being changed and that he
is here tonight to support the other residents who oppose the guiding change.
Terry Johnson, 543 Park Lane, stated he is a professional hydrologist and that he is wondering what the
amount of sewage calculation would be for 59 homes. Johnson stated his numbers show somewhere
between five to ten million gallons annually. Johnson stated he heard these would be private septic
systems and that he was wondering if the applicant has calculated the amount of sewage that would be
generated from 59 homes.
Hiller indicated they are still at the preliminary plat stage.
Johnson commented this is one example that illustrates a need for this type of information at this stage in
the process because in his view it is probably at least five million gallons annually. Johnson stated there
was a reason the homes in the area are connected to the sewer system and one of those reasons is so that it
would not impact the water quality. Johnson stated as a professional hydrologist,he finds it surprising
they would be using that type of design next to the largest recreational lake in this area.
Dan iverson,4640 North Arm Drive, stated he has lived here for approlcimately 30 years, and that he lives
in this area because of the open space and rolling hills,which is what he thought Orono stood for. Iverson
stated this application is in the City Council's hands,and if they go down this slippery slope,they could
be setting a very dangerous precedent. Once that precedent is set,Orono will be hard pressed to prevent
future development of other golf courses.
Iverson stated his property has a bird's eye view of the golf course since he lives on high ground. Iverson
stated the drawings minimize the size of the ponds and the drainage. The golf course has hundreds and
hundreds of feet of tiling,which prevents it from flooding. The land is more suitable for recreational
land,ponds,wildlife refuge,or other options.
Page 23 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Iverson commented surgeons like to cut, civil engineers like to build, and developers like to develop,but
Roy Rogers once said,buy land,they don't make it anymore. Iverson stated while the drawings are nice,
it does not show what will happen once you put all these clustered houses in. Iverson stated in his view it
will not be quite the rosy picture the developer likes to paint and that he would be surprised if the
developer could take their projected 591ots and actually create 59 two-acre lots. Iverson stated the land is
one step above or equal to the land where a holding pond would go.
Iverson noted the development of Red Oaks is going to be a huge impact in itself and that it would not
hurt Orono to take a sit back and wait approach to see what that impact is.
Steve Bren,North Arm Drive, stated the residents and City needs the answers to the questions raised and
that these questions should be answered prior to making a decision on axnending the Comprehensive Plan.
Bren stated in his view the citizens deserve 60 days to look at altematives and that they have some good
ideas as well as a lot of power and energy.
Bren stated the Comprehensive Plan is the very foundation of why a number of people live here,and to
alter that only based on a sketch is irresponsible to the citizens,the sellers,and the buyers. Given the
possibilities of losing this open space,Bren stated it warrants further research. Bren asked how
presenting a housing sketch plan meets the current 2008-2030 Community Management Plan and whether
it provided the City and its residents with compelling reasons to amend the vision of the community.
Bren acknowledged the Wenkstern family has the right to sell their land but questioned whether this is the
only viable option. Bren stated in his opinion there are other options available if the residents are given
the time to research it.
Bren indicated he is also wondering whether a comprehensive marketing plan should be conducted to see
if it supports this type of housing.The City does not want a project that will languish and stall leaving
Orono citizens with a failed housing project. In addition, further study needs to be done to determine
whether the current road structure will support all of the traff'ic coming out of Red Oak as well as an
additional fifty some homes coming out of Lakeview. The development will impact the surrounding road
system by adding to the amount of traffic in the area and alter existing traffic pattems. Bren commented
he is not sure whether the relocation of the road to North Arm will be a final decision and that the
driveway location has yet to be determined.
Bren stated there are a number of people who are worried that the drawings that are before the City
Council will not be at all what the end project will look like. Bren stated a delay in reaching a decision
allows the developer to supply more information about the viability of his proposal and offers Orono an
opportunity to research altematives that are in line with the Community Management Plan.
Carol Pass,2536-18`�'Avenue South,Minneapolis, stated the Metropolitan Council wants Orono to bring
in denser housing and that in her view the City of Orono will do it in a responsible way. Pass indicated
she has worked hard to get a park for the children in Minneapolis and that Minneapolis has the best park
system in the nation. Every kid in Minneapolis can walk to a park,which will likely not happen here.
Page 24 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Pass stated the children should have access to a park. Pass stated she would encourage the City Council
to think of people who do not have open land and that this is a legacy that should not be missed. Pass
stated the elected officials and city staff should be more outspoken about the need for more open space.
Ryan Bennett,4680 North Arm Drive, stated he specifically left Eden Prairie and came to Orono for more
space,and that he would specifically echo the comments made by the Johnsons at the beginning of the
meeting.
Dean Mitchell, 740 North Arm Drive, stated he would also like to echo what the Johnsons stated.
Mitchell noted there is a stormwater pipe that drains from under the golf course onto his property and that
he would encourage the City Council to conduct the proper environmental study as part of any residential
development.
Bill Bockmann, 1130 Loma Linda Avenue, stated he has lived here since he was four and that he has
known Grant for over 50 years. Bockmann stated he would like to see Grant Wenkstern made whole but
that options for the property is the key word.
Bockmann asked whether the City still owns Big Island.
McMillan indicated there is a city-owned park on Big Island and that the Watershed District owns an
easement over a large part of the property.
Bockmann asked if there is an option with Lakeview where the City could make it a hiking trail or
something.
McMillan stated the City Council will discuss the application and its options after the public comments.
Bridget Hamlin,4665 West Branch, stated there are many residents that are on the other side of the golf
course that feel the same as those residents on North Arm.
Isaac Will, 1369 North Arm, stated he has recently moved here to Orono and that a big part of deciding to
move back here was the guiding of the land and the open spaces and dark skies. Will stated in his view it
is important for the City Council to take sufficient time to consider all the ramifications before it is too
late.
Page 25 of 36
MINUTES OF TAE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Julie Ruegemer, 1295 Loma Linda Avenue, stated over the weekend a set of sad and disappointed
neighbors came over to her house to sign the petition asking Orono to do the environmental assessment
on the impact of this large housing development that they want to have take over Lakeview. Each of their
responses was the same-they are sick about what is slated to happen. When seven houses were slated to
go up in the lovely wooded section of Minnie Avenue,the community was sick about that,too,but were
told by the City Council it was going to happen anyway because it was zoned for seven houses on 50-foot
lots. Their voices were not heard. Now a developer wants to put 60 houses in at Lakeview where it is
guided for open space. The Planning Commission has already voted to change that guidance. In the blink
of an eye,land that we thought was safe is on its way to being developed. Developing all of our land is
very short-sighted and pretty soon it will be gone.
Ruegemer stated another parcel of land in Minnesota that many of us enjoy is the Boundary Waters canoe
area and all that would have been gone,too. A man named Edward Backus tried to develop it,but thanks
to God someone else was not shortsighted and saw the future opportunity of enjoyment by the people and
a number of people worked tirelessly to save this land for natural enjoyment.
Noerenberg Gardens is another example of land that may be taken for granted,but if it had not been for
Laura Noerenberg Hoppe bequeathing that land on Lake Minnetonka,that land would also be gone,taken
over by developers. Instead, she had far-reaching vision. She saw that she could preserve this land for
people to enjoy for all time. A group of people recently thought to save some private precious land in
Frog Town, St. Paul. They were able to get a 1.5 million dollar grant from the public trust for land. They
received gifts and city matching and they were able to save that land for public enjoyment. The sellers
also got their money.
Ruegemer stated if we want this land preserved,we have to fight and work for change. The Planning
Commission has already voted to change the guidance on this piece of property in the blink of an eye.
We live in the City because we believe in the philosophy that Orono has stated. We voted for our Council
members because we believed they would uphold the philosophy of Orono. The philosophy of Orono is
to protect and preserve Lake Minnetonka,the water quality and its recreational assets,protect and
preserve our many natural resources and open spaces,preserve our distinct rural and urban land use
pattems and lifestyles,preserve our local character and identity. Our identity is going to go out the
window if we cannot even follow our own philosophy.
Ruegemer stated they can raise the money through Orono's residents, grants, and perhaps even city
matching funds. We can buy this land and give it to the Three Rivers Park District for the enjoyment of
all people. Lakeview could be a pristine place for biking,hiking,walking dogs,rollerblading,playing,
etc. Let's save this land and keep Orono from becoming like every other suburb. Let's follow our own
philosophy.
Donna Hager,4580 West Branch Road, stated they originally purchased their property 50 years ago for
the open space. They have enjoyed their property all of those years and they would hate to lose that
wonderful amenity that the residents enjoy. It is something that cannot be replaced. Once it is gone to a
housing development, it is forever gone.
Page 26 of 36
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENTANDSKETCHPLANREVIEW, Continued)
Hager stated in her view the Council should,at the very least, grant 60 days for the group to investigate
and come up with some ideas,to do less than that would be irresponsible. Hager stated she would urge
the Council to keep the current guidance that was put wisely into the Comprehensive Plan. That planning
not only preserves what we have now but goes forward to younger generations and preserves what we
have in Orono,which is what makes Orono a special place.
Mayor McMillan closed the public comment portion at 10:07 p.m.
McMillan encouraged the residents to continue to provide the City Council with any additional comments
via e-mail or phone. McMillan stated there are two items before the City Council tonight. One is the
Comprehensive Plan amendment and the second is the sketch plan for a housing development.
Levang indicated she would prefer to discuss the item separately and to discuss the Comprehensive Plan
amendment first.
Printup asked what the opinion of the City Attorney is regarding the 60-day delay.
City Attorney Poehler stated if the Council feels it needs additional time to make a decision,it has a right
to request an extension of the review period. After that period of time,the City would need to get
permission from the applicant or take final action.
Levang asked if it needs to be specified what will be accomplished in that 60-day period.
Poehler stated the Council should have some general indication of what it is they are looking for.
Printup stated in regard to the issues that have been raised relating to pedestrian safety, stormwater,
septic,environmental and billability, are things that will change and a number of plans will be brought
before the City Council. Printup stated he is not comfortable with that and that he would like to see
something more realistic and what the housing development will actually look like once the data is
arrived at. Printup indicated he is comfortable with the 60-day delay,which will give time for the
grassroots movement and also give the City Council the information to make a better decision.
Printup moved,Levang seconded,to table Application No. 13-3638 and 13-3639, Source Land
Capital,LLC,on behalf of Grant Wenkstern(Lakeview Golfl,405 North Arm Drive,
Comprehensive Plan Amendment and Sketch Plan Review,for 60 days.
McMillan asked if an environmental assessment would be required in this situation.
Grittman stated it is not required by state law since this development does not meet those thresholds. The
minimum would be 100 housing units.
McMillan noted Spring Hill Golf Course required an EAW to build a golf course.
Page 27 of 36
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Grittman stated within the EAW rules there is a category for creation of golf courses.
McMillan noted a marketing plan was also mentioned,and asked whether this is a situation where it
would be helpful for that to be done
Grittman stated he has seen situations where cities have requested for some market research data to
document the economic viability of the project. Grittman stated that happens more commonly with
commercial development rather than residential. Grittman stated there are probably some factors in the
City's zoning rules to support a preliminary plat application but it is not unheard of to seek that type of
information.
McMillan stated if there is a 60-day delay,they would be looking at the January City Council meeting.
Grittman noted the 60-day extension would end on January 24 and that the Council meeting would be on
January 13.
Michael Flannery asked if the fact that an EAW is not required mean that one cannot be requested.
McMillan stated to her understanding the Council can request one if they feel it is necessary.
Poehler stated it would be at the discretion of the Council if they feel it is necessary to make their
decision.
McMillan stated it would depend on the type of development being proposed,and that if it is different
than a two-acre lot development,that it might be something to consider.
Levang indicated she is in favor of doing an EAW if it makes sense to do it.
McMillan stated she believes there should be a good reason for requiring something rather than simply
adding costs to a development. McMillan stated it is important to be fair with a person's property rights
and that she would hate to add more expense to the developer and property owner if it is not truly
necessary.
Levang stated she would prefer to go through the 60 days and then determine at that point whether an
EAW is appropriate.
Printup stated the 60-day delay would preserve the high status that has been given to the City's
Comprehensive Plan as well as allow time for review of other alternatives and additional time to digest
the information that is provided.
Page 28 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and I3-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENTANDSKETCHPLANREVIEW, Continued)
Anderson commented there are a lot of moving parts in this application currently and that she has heard a
number of comments from the residents that should be evaluated. Anderson stated she would like to
make sure the Council makes the proper decision on the application and whether an EAW should be
required. Anderson stated the additional time would allow the Council to examine the information and
not violate anyone's property rights,which are very critical pieces.
McMillan asked whether any information will be available on the soil tests and at what point some of this
data will be received on the viability of the development.
Grittman stated that type of information is usually provided at the time of preliminary plat application.
Grittman indicated the City Council could ask what information the developer has obtained so far and that
perhaps some preliminary information could be provided. �
Levang stated she would like to see as much of that information as early as possible in order for the City
Council to make an analysis on how many units will be buildable.
McMillan stated it would help provide an idea of how much open space would be available and that she
would like to know what is being proposed as it relates to the public amenity. McMillan stated she does
not feel it is something that should be a ball and chain for the Wenksterns but that it is a balancing act
between the two.
McMillan stated she would like to discuss the housing development aspect prior to voting on the motion.
Levang noted the Council has received a lot of phone calls and e-mails and that the City Council
appreciates all the thought the residents have put into this. Levang stated the City Council does not
operate in a vacuum and that they need to hear from the residents. Levang indicated she has attempted to
respond to each of the residents who has contacted her and that the Council does need to hear about the
options that are being considered. Levang stated this is a huge decision for the Council and the Council
members take it seriously and want to do the best job they can.
McMillan stated the developer would like some thoughts regarding the PRD and that she does not want to
leave them up in the air for 60 days.
Levang stated she can understand why clustering is being proposed and that it presents a prettier picture
than the two acre sites. Levang stated she has great concerns about the septic and the ability of the
property to percolate. Levang indicated she lives on a parcel that consists of eight acres but that most of it
is wetlands. Levang stated when her septic went down,they had a very difficult time fmding a second
site. Levang indicated she is very concerned about one acre lots and how viable they will be over time.
Page 29 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Levang stated she also is concerned about the views this development will have. Levang stated the
houses will be at everyone's sightlines and those views will be destroyed. Levang stated she would like
to see more than a one acre site. Levang stated water quality and other issues will need to be addressed at
some point,but at this time septic is the main issue.
Anderson concurred that clustering is a novel idea but that septic sites are a huge concern. The drainage
and runoff into either bay,which are very close to Lake Minnetonka,will cause additional problems
relating to water quality,runoff to the neighbors in addition to the traffic and pedestrian foot traffic issues.
Anderson stated there are a number of issues tied to this development and that she is not sure whether the
developer will be able to answer all of them.
Printup stated nobody has the answers to those questions here tonight and that he would like less
speculation before making a decision on the clustering or one-acre lots. Printup stated another option is
the two-acre minimum that the site is zoned for. Printup stated he does not want to put the cart before the
horse before the actual numbers are determined.
Anderson stated she is still stuck on the Comprehensive Plan and that in her view it is the Council's duty
to protect and preserve the Comprehensive Plan. Anderson indicated she is not ready to discuss many of
these details.
McMillan stated a big piece of Orono's philosophy is to create two acre lots with their own septic that
was created back in the 1970s. The city founders decided to make it two acre lots without city sewer,
which is really at the heart of Orono's philosophy and Comprehensive Plan. McMillan indicated she is
not comfortable with a PRD or one-acre density since it basically goes against that philosophy. McMillan
stated two acres might not be big enough for some of the sites given the drain tile and that golf courses
were constructed at a time when a person could tile over wetlands. McMillan stated some of the land may
also be classified as wetlands once it is tested,which will require buffers and setbacks.
McMillan stated that is an example of the data that perhaps could be found out in the next 60 days.
McMillan stated this is a wonderful opportunity, if this site does become a housing development,to have
it be one that incorporates resource management and possibly bringing back and restoring wetlands and
creating better stormwater opportunities for Lake Minnetonka. McMillan stated in her view the
Watershed District will be very helpful in that regard and future maintenance that should be required.
Page 30 of 36
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #I3-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) O/B/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
McMillan stated one of the key points would be to have a conservation design done on this property to
identify the various natural resources on the site,which may change the location of the lots and the
nuxnber of lots. McMillan stated the developer could look at perhaps three or four total private roads that
do not connect with maybe ten homes on them rather than one road that winds through the entire
development. McMillan stated she does not want to see curb and gutter and that clustering would look
out of character. McMillan noted this land is in the middle of the country, and if it is developed,it needs
to have a more rural character. McMillan indicated she would not be opposed to changing the zoning to
five acres but that she is opposed to changing it to one acre lots. As land continues to get built up around
the Cities,more and more people will come out to Orono looking for open space and wildlife corridors.
McMillan stated in her view the aesthetics of a cluster development do not work in this environment.
Levang noted she also is not in favor of the clubhouse or a gated community and that she is in agreement
with Mayor McMillan that it should be a more rural environment.
Anderson stated she would like to see if there are any trails within the development that could be open to
the public and that she would prefer to see some kind of trail or shoulder along County Road 19.
Anderson indicated she never envisioned this property as being anything but open space and that perhaps
the City Council should consider five acre zoning for this area since it has been more historically rural
and open space in character.
Gaffron stated the City's five acre zone is the northwest quadrant of the City and that this property does
not touch it and is surrounded by two-acre zoning. Gaffron stated he would not call it spot zoning
necessarily but that it would be creating something that is not in character with what is immediately
around it.
Anderson stated it currently is open space,which is also not totally compatible with the surrounding land.
McMillan asked if a resolution of approval should be a�ailable at the City Council meeting on January 13.
Gaffron noted action would need to be taken at the January 13 meeting before the 60 days are up.
Levang asked if it could be tabled at that time.
Gaffron stated the applicant would need to agree to an extension if the City Council wanted to table it.
Gaffron indicated Staff would like some direction from the Council on what type of resolution the City
Council would like to see prepared.
Poehler stated action to approve or deny the resolution would need to be taken on January 13 containing
the findings of the Council.
Hiller asked what the Council would like to see happen in the next 60 days from them and the
community. Hiller noted the golf course is not legally for sale at the present time and that the property is
� currently under contract. Hiller indicated in the next 60 days the golf course is not going to be for sale.
Page 31 of 36 .____—___._
I
MINUTES OF TAE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Hiller stated he is hearing that the clustering is not a preference and that the Council would prefer the
two-acre zoning and layout.
Anderson stated she would like to entertain higher acreage requirements.
Printup stated he is talking about the Comprehensive Plan amendment being delayed,which will give the
developer time to come up with a different type of layout, such as five or two acres.
Hiller stated they are following the process that was outlined by the City for them to follow. Hiller
indicated the work and economics are very different on a two-acre development versus a five-acre
development and that their preparations were done on a two-acre minimum. Hiller stated they have not
submitted an application to increase the size of the lots but merely for the Council to look at the guiding
of the land. Hiller stated in the five-acre zoning would be inconsistent with the current zoning and that he
is not sure what they would need to do to satisfy the Council's concems.
Printup stated those are good questions and that they need to be answered at some point.
Hiller stated there are a number of possibilities but that he is not clear what he should be working on.
Levang stated a lot of it will be driven by the septic testing.
Hiller stated the septic has to be tested in three or four spots on each of the lots,and that absent a final
design, it is expensive to do the septic testing. Hiller indicated the design they have been working on was
based on the clustering,which will need to be re-evaluated. Hiller stated it is conceivable they could
come back with a design based on two acre lots and the septic testing could be done based on that.
McMillan stated the Conservation Design work should also be done and that the City does not allow
septic sites in wetland buffers. McMillan stated in her view the conservation overlay is one of the first
things to be done and the fact that it has not been done is somewhat troubling. The conservation outlay
will also help identify setbacks and wetlands. McMillan stated they may end up with some odd lots or
odd sized parcels which is something that can be worked out with the Watershed District. McMillan
comxnented there are a lot of unknowns at this point and that the conservation design needs to be done
before the application gets too further down the road.
McMillan stated in addition she does not want to see roads coming off of County Road 19 given the speed
of the traffic.
Hiller asked if the Council would like to see the conservation design overlay completed and some perc
tests done on two-acre lots in the next 60 days.
Printup stated that is close but that there is also some thought being given by the Council into the five
acre minimum.
McMillan asked whether the five-acre zoning would be up to the discretion of the developer.
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� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CTI'Y COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(8. #13-3638 and 13-3639 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,LLC(PAT HILLER) OB/O GRANT
WENKSTERN(LAKEVIEW GOLF), 405 NORTHARMDRIVE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENT AND SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, Continued)
Gaffron noted the current underlying zoning is two acres and that the developer could propose lots that
are larger than that.
Hiller stated the wetland delineation report is being prepared at this time.
McMillan stated it is ultimately up to the developer to decide on whether to create the lots bigger than two
acres.
Hiller stated it is possible that some of the lots will be larger than two acres. Hiller stated as they look at
the site and apply common sense,they will stay away from the natural features that should be protected
and preserved.
Grittman stated the information being requested is a little more detailed than what is normally provided
with a sketch plan but not quite all the detail provided with a preliminary plat.
Gaffron noted there is only one City Council meeting in December, and asked whether the City Council
would like to see the information prior to January 13.
Hiller indicated he is not sure how long the conservation study will take but that in his view they will get
pretty close by then.
McMillan asked whether a special meeting is an option the Council would like to consider.
Anderson stated she is in favor of that and that she would have liked to have had a work session before
this to discuss some of these items.
Gaffron suggested a special hearing be scheduled for Monday,January 6.
Levang asked if that would be enough time for the developer.
Hiller stated in his view it probably will be but that he is not sure how long the conservation design will
take.
McMillan stated the Council would need the information no later than January 2.
Printup moved,Levang seconded,to amend the motion on Application Nos. 13-3638 and 13-3639,
Source Land Capital,LLC (Pat Hiller)on behalf of Grant Wenkstern(Lakeview Golf Course),405
North Arm Drive,to table the applications to a special meeting on January 6 at 7 p.m. VOTE:
Ayes 4,Nays 0.
Page 33 of 36
MINUTES OF THE �
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR/CITY ENGINEER'S REPORT
*9. GREEN TREES ROAD SANITARY SEWER EXTENSION PROJECT,RESOLUTION
NOS.6340& 6341
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 6340,a Resolution Accepting the
Feasibility Study for Green Trees Road Sanitary Sewer Extension,and to adopt RESOLUTION
NO.6341,a Resolution Ordering Improvement and Preparallon of Plans for Green Trees Road
Sanitary Sewer Extension Project. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
*10. PAY REQUEST NO.2—2013 SANITARY SEWER REI3ABII.ITATION PROJECT
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve Pay Request No.2 for the contractor Visu-Sewer,in
the amount of$77,164.23,for the 2013 Sanitary Sewer Rehabilitation Project. VOTE: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
MAYOR/COUNCIL REPORT
Levang noted City Engineer Jesse Struve sent out an email about the state aid variance committee looking
for volunteers and that she did volunteer. The first meeting will be held in December.
Levang stated the LMCC will be meeting next week and that she does not know the status of the
resolution at this time but that she hopes some movement will made on the resolution.
Printup thanked the veterans for their service and Thomas Longe for his work on the new veterans'
memorial.
Printup stated there was a STS meeting earlier today and that it sounds like work will be starting this
week.
McMillan noted the Orono Police Academy held a graduation ceremony last week with approximately 12
people graduating.
McMillan reported she and Mayor Hultmann met last week with Three Rivers Park District. Three Rivers
is very interested in connecting the trails and indicated they are going to speak with their planner.
McMillan indicated they are planning to meet again next week.
CITY ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT
*11. DISPOSAL OF FORFEITED VEHICLES
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve the disposal of two forfeited vehicles,with both
vehicles being sold to salvage yard as scrap. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
Page 34 of 36
� MINUTES OF THE ,
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING .
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
*12. NON-WAIVER OF TORT LIMITS—RESOLUTION NO.6342
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 6342,a Resolution Making a
Selection not to Waive the Statutory Tort Limits for Liability Insurance Purposes. VOTE: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
*13. CLOSE NAVARRE FIRE STATION PROJECT FUND—RESOLUTION NO.6343
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 6343,a Resolution to Close the
Navarre Fire Station Project Fund. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
*14. CLOSE BIG ISLAND P UBLIC PROJECT FUND—RESOLUTION NO.6344
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 6344,a Resolutioa to Close the
2005 Big Island Public Project Fund. VOTE: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
CITY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
City Attorney Poehler stated she had nothing to report.
*15. LICENSES AND PERMITS
None
*16. CLAIMSBILLS
Levang moved,Bremer seconded,to approve payment of the All Funds Account. VOTE: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
17. CLOSED MEETING FOR ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
Anderson moved,Levang seconded,to go into closed session to discuss pending litigation between
the City of Orono and Jay Nygard. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
(The Orono City Council went into closed session from 10:59 p.m. to 11:18 p.m.)
Page 35 of 36
- MINUTES OF THE �
• ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday,November 12,2013
7:00 o'clock p.m.
ADJOURNMENT
Anderson moved,Printup seconded,to adjourn the Orono City Council meeting at 11:18 p.m.
VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
ATTES�C:
L,. �..�.� `'��: `� � ��R�'�'J�' -
Rachel Dodge, City Clerk Lili Tod McMillan,Mayor
Page 36 of 36