HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-27-1997 Council MinutesORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR OCTOBER 27, 1997
• ROLL
The Council met on the above mentioned date with the following members present:
Mayor Gabriel Jabbour, Council Members J. Diann Goetten, Charles Kelley, and
Richard Flint. Barbara Peterson was absent. Representing Staff were City
Administrator Ron Moorse, City Attorney Tom Barrett, Senior Planning Coordinator
Michael Gaffron, Planner /Zoning Administrator Elizabeth Van Zomeren, Public
Services Director Greg Gappa, City Engineer Tom Kellogg, and Recorder Sherry Frost.
Mayor Jabbour called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
( #1 Consent Agenda follows Planning Commission Comments)
( #2) OATH OF OFFICE - STEVEN ALLEN MCNALLY, PART -TIME POLICE
OFFICER
Ron Moorse administered the Oath of Office to Steven Allen McNally, a newly
appointed part-time police officer for the City. McNally was introduced to the Council.
Newly appointed Sergeant, James Morowczynski, was present and received
congratulations on his promotion.
• ( #3 Crystal Bay Road Addition Internal Trail System follows Consent Agenda)
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
( * #4) REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 13,1997
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to approve the Minutes of the Regular City Council
Meeting of October 13, 1997. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
PARK COMMISSION COMMENTS
Park Commission Chair Susan Wilson reported the Park Commission is continuing to
work on the maintenance of existing parks. She noted a path has been mowed around
French Creek Preserve. The skating rinks at Bederwood and Hackberry Parks will not
be flooded this year due to poor ice quality in the past. She asked Council to consider an
arrangement with the Orono Ice Arena for open skating.
Wilson said the Commission will be discussing long term funding for parks at their next
meeting. Open space needs are being reviewed as well. She asked for Council direction
on where the Park Commission should be going regarding open space. Wilson asked
Council to maintain contact with Doug Bryant of Hennepin Parks.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
(Park Commission Comments - Continued) •
Jabbour informed Wilson that a meeting was recently held with Doug Bryant. Moorse
indicated to Bryant that the City would like to complete an agreement regarding the trail
leading to Baker Park by the end of the calendar year and continue working in the future
with Hennepin Parks on other joint ventures.
Jabbour told Wilson that the Council will be reviewing the City's philosophy towards
parks in their Comprehensive Plan update. The Council has determined that the focus of
the Commission should include open space and trails. The Council feels the
Comprehensive Plan does not accurately reflect the current plans of the City in its regard
to parks. Jabbour asked Wilson to maintain close communications with the Council
regarding park issues. He noted that a consultant may be needed to aid in determining
the future goals for parks.
Jabbour informed Wilson that the Council is not interested in pursuing the purchase of
public ice time at the Orono Ice Arena at this time.
Goetten introduced Wilson to those in the audience.
LAKE MINNETONKA CONSERVATION DISTRICT
Lili McMillan, Orono's Representative to the LMCD, submitted an outline of activities •
over the past six weeks she has been on the LMCD Board. One issue being discussed is
that of special events permitting. Permits for these activities are currently handled by
the Water Patrol. The LMCD is considering becoming involved in the process.
McMillan asked for Council's direction regarding this. McMillan is concerned with a
duplication of paperwork and permit fees.
Jabbour told McMillan that the LMCD has thought permits should be done in -house and
enforcement of the permits contracted with the Water Patrol. The LMCD gains benefit
from using the Water Patrol, but the Water Patrol is not always meeting the needs of the
LMCD as their priorities differ. Jabbour said licensing by the LMCD would be a
duplication.
Kelley said the permits should be handled by the Water Patrol only.
Goetten would like all cities to be informed of planned special events.
Kelley asked why the LMCD is interested in pursuing special events permits. McMillan
said the LMCD has been criticized for not being aware of all that is occurring.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
• (LMCD Report - Continued)
Jabbour noted that the LMCD lacks the manpower and funding to administer these
permits. The Water Patrol has this responsibility but places safety above all. Jabbour
said the Water Patrol considers special events as a more routine matter than how it is
considered by the LMCD. The LMCD's main focus is on controlling the exotic
materials and should work with the Water Patrol and DNR to follow the guidelines.
McMillan reported another issue of concern voiced at the LMCD meeting was
commercial launching of boats and spread of exotics. Kelley asked the definition of
commercial launching. McMillan said it referred to boats brought in by marinas and for
commercial launch. Kelley said he sees no difference between that and boats being
trailered onto the lake. McMillan said zebra mussels can be carried in through the
commercial launching, but agreed it can occur by trailering boats as well.
Kelley reported that he has viewed boats pulling out at the Maxwell Bay access dripping
water and milfoil with little concern for cleaning off the material. He feels this is the
biggest problem and needs to be patrolled.
Jabbour indicated that control of zebra mussels is 15 years behind. The State has laws
about transportation of zebra mussels and milfoil into lakes and for cleaning of boats.
He suggested the LMCD develop a pamphlet for distribution to educate people on these
• concerns and transporting species from contaminated waters. He noted there is no
mechanism in place to ensure that boats are being cleaned. He would like to see the
LMCD support what laws are in effect without adding more. He feels there is no
difference between marinas leaking gas or introducing zebra mussels into the lake.
Jabbour would like an education program begun and asked McMillan to introduce this
idea to the LMCD. He felt this could be tied into the licensing of the marinas. Jabbour
said the marinas end up being legally non - conforming and get relicensed without any
additional information given to them. A workshop on the laws and consequences would
assist in this effort.
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McMillan clarified with Jabbour that he would like to see more educational focus rather
than new ordinances. Kelley encouraged the education seminars to be tied into the
licensing. Jabbour indicated that the marinas should be held responsible for this
knowledge and at minimum, have a wash available at the marinas. McMillan told
Jabbour that the LMCD is keying some of their issues off of the concerns that have been
voiced by Jabbour.
McMillan said the LMCD has just begun reviewing their Comprehensive Plan and will
be discussing the topic each month. She felt this process will take about a year to
determine what changes and amendments are required. McMillan will notify Council of
any changes that are considered.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
(LMCD Report - Continued) •
McMillan reported that the Lake Minnetonka Association recently held a forum on
personal watercraft operation. Many ideas were generated. She reported that more quiet
water areas will be initiated as the lake is made up of so many smaller bays where noise
from these personal watercraft present a problem. No decisions were made at that
meeting. Jabbour said he had been unable to attend that meeting but is concerned that
momentum picked up by this organization seems to loose its energy quickly. McMillan
said the Lake Minnetonka Association will be working with the LMCD and would like
to see stickers distributed with rules of personal watercraft operation.
Jabbour informed McMillan that he was told by Martha Reger of the DNR that a
consultant has been hired to review the issue of public access. He noted the City had an
agreement with the DNR to pursue public accesses in the 13 other cities on the lake
before requesting another access in Orono. Jabbour said the consultant hired is Gordon
Kimball. McMillan said she would like to see a count taken of parking spaces available
for public access.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
Commissioner McMillan had no comments at this time.
( * #1) CONSENT AGENDA •
Items #6, 8, 9, 10, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 24 were added to the Consent Agenda.
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. Vote:
Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( 0) OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD ADDITION AND SECOND ADDITION -
INTERNAL TRAIL SYSTEM
Moorse presented background on the development of internal trails in this subdivision.
An easement was taken by the City for the trails when the subdivision was platted. No
agreement was made as to how the trails would be developed. The lots were then sold
and developed, and the new homeowners may or may not have knowledge of the trails.
A meeting was held last year where resident feedback was heard regarding this issue.
They were informed that the City would further review the matter and schedule another
meeting to discuss the trails and to make a determination by the Council whether the
trails will be developed.
Jabbour indicated that the Council has extensively investigated the trail system noting
Dick Flint is the City's expert regarding trails.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
• ( #3 - Old Crystal Bay Road Addition Internal Trail System - Continued)
The meeting was opened for public comments.
Bob Tunheim, 2755 Countryside Drive West, is an attorney and delegated spokesperson
for the residents of the subdivision. He reported that there is unanimous opposition to
the development of the trails. This was determined at a recent meeting held by the
residents. Tunheim said the last two residences are currently being built which will
complete the subdivision.
Jabbour reported that the majority of the Council members were involved in the
decisions regarding this recent subdivision. The City has been reviewing their entire
comprehensive trail system and feel that all voices should be heard on this issue.
Jabbour said he sees there being three issues involved: 1) whether the trail is vital to the
over -all trail system; noting whether it goes from point A to point B; 2) whether the City
was given park dedication credit for the trail property during the subdivision; and 3) if
#1 and #2 are no, then is the City giving up any of their fiduciary responsibility to the
City residents at -large if the trails are released back to the ownership of the homeowners.
Jabbour reported that the Council will do what is right for the City at -large regardless of
the opinion of the residents themselves.
Tunheim said there is a bike trail on Old Crystal Bay Road to Watertown that connects
is to the Luce Line for use by the residents. He did not believe any park dedication credit
was given for the trails.
Moorse reported that there is not a significant public benefit in having a set of public
trails in this location, as they come off of a private drive. He thought it may make sense
to have the trails private for circulation by the residents in the subdivision. He noted the
residents' petition voiced concern with public use and bringing additional traffic into the
area.
Jabbour responded that if the trails were to become private, it would be the concern of
the homeowners to address it, and not that of the City.
Keith Bares, 2655 Countryside Drive West, reported that the trails would not go
anywhere other than to a wooded area and to an outlot. He indicated the homeowners
did discuss private trails. He asked if all of the members of the Council have viewed the
property. Jabbour reported that the Council was very familiar with the property.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
( #3 - Old Crystal Bay Road Addition Internal Trail System - Continued) •
Flint voiced concern that the vacated trails would give benefit to the adjoining property
owners and would not enable the other residents of the subdivision to gain access to the
park if the trails were vacated. Flint said he spoke with one homeowner who thought the
proposed trails were great, and noted there was no way to get access to the Luce Line
from his property without using the trails. Flint said the intent was never to bring in the
general public to use the trails, but allow those in the neighborhood the ability to use the
trails and get to the park. He was concerned with losing this ability.
Flint asked Dick Putnam, the original developer, if he thought the trails should be given
to the neighborhood instead of being vacated. Putnam questioned whether there was a
legal way for the City to convey the trails to an entity. Jabbour asked if there was an
entity to which to give the trails. Putnam reported that the residents are in the process of
setting up a homeowners association separate from the other subdivision across the
street. Flint was told the other development had one developer with different builders
while this subdivision was sold to a developer, who built all of the homes. Putnam said
documents were provided to Tony Eiden, the developer, to allow for a homeowners
association.
Jabbour asked who does the maintenance of the roads. Tunheim said the 14 residents
share in the cost of maintenance. He indicated they are currently in the process of
breaking away from the other homeowners association and have an easement for the •
road. Once the documentation is in place for the new homeowners association, they
would have the legal entity to which the trails could be conveyed ownership. Tunheim
explained the different homeowners associations and what homes are in each
association. He indicated it is an extensive process to make these changes as the
covenants are filed against the land.
Jabbour questioned whether the City would have to sign off on the covenants. Tunheim
did not believe so. Barrett said he would have to review the covenants. He indicated the
City has a stake in seeing the homeowners association continue. Jabbour said he had a
concern with moving forward on such an activity and then finding out it cannot be done.
Kelley asked if the road was private and owned by the homeowners. He was informed
that it was. Kelley questioned what right the City has to bring traffic onto a private road.
Barrett responded that the City has a public easement over the road but may allow it to
remain private with maintenance performed by the homeowners. Kelley questioned
whether the general public could be ticketed for trespassing. Barrett said that was
possible. Kelley asked what would prevent him from getting ticketed for using the trails
to gain access from the roadway. Barrett said the misdemeanor offense would have to
be seen by a police officer. Kelley clarified that the general public does not have the
right to use a private road. Barrett confirmed that the private homeowners have the right
to place an objection to the use by the general public. •
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
. ( #3 - Old Crystal Bay Road Addition Internal Trail System - Continued)
Kelley then questioned how the City can have a public trail from a private road. Barrett
confirmed that there would be no value in the trail if the access was from a private road.
Jabbour indicated that the city does have the right to the road. Barrett noted a
homeowner can eject a stranger from private property.
Kelley asked what happens if the road is kept as a public easement and the trail is given
up for a private trail. Barrett said if the access is from a private road, there would be the
right to exclude others from the trail but with an underlying public easement and a
public trail, it could open the road to being public.
Kelley asked what makes a road public. Barrett said it was done by deeming it as public
and taking over maintenance.
Jabbour said he views the trails from the perspective of the future vision of the City and
of its trails. If there was a mechanism for use by the public and included park
dedication, Jabbour said the trails should remain public. He questioned who would be
served by the trails. Jabbour noted that Flint suggested the trails would be used by the
private homeowners, and the decision should be made what will then be done. Flint
agreed.
• Flint again asked that if a homeowner whose property does not connect to the public
park on Outlot A wants to access it and the trails are vacated, then how would that
homeowner achieve access. While the general public will not be served by the trails, the
homeowners should be able to use it.
Jabbour asked Council if the public interest should be vacated. Kelley, Goetten, and
Flint agreed, but Flint asked to have a vehicle by which the other residents in the
neighborhood can use the trails
Jabbour received confirmation from Council that a vehicle should be in place by which
the residents in the subdivision can access the park. Kelley said whether that use is
available should be left up to the homeowners. Kelley said he would want all of the
homeowners to be informed and make that determination. He questioned what happens
if not all of the homeowners want access to the park. Flint said the easement would be
there, and those wanting to use it can do so.
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
( #3 - Old Crystal Bay Road Addition Internal Trail System - Continued) •
Barrett reported that if the City were to abandon their interest in the trails, the trail
property would revert to the ownership of the adjacent property owners. He suggested a
condition be put in place, whereby, if the City agrees to withdraw their interest in the
trails, the contiguous property owners must provide the same easement for the benefit of
all of the homeowners with the property title held by the homeowners association. The
trail development itself would be at the discretion of the homeowners association. Those
adjacent homeowners to the trail property should be made aware that these residents are
not trespassing.
Bares questioned with three homeowners' associations, if all would be able to access the
trails. The trails within each association's development would make determinations on
their trails.
Bob Gehrman, 4300 6th Avenue North, asked what happens if the homeowners
association is abandoned. Jabbour said the easement would be on the deed indefinitely.
Jabbour said it was inherent to preserve the right of that community to use the trails. He
noted there is a differing opinion on what parks should be used for.
Dwight Seward noted the park parcel is mentioned as a passive park and sees no need to
access it. Seward said there is only brush in the area that has been cleared out and no
amenities. Flint informed Seward that parks are developed by asking neighborhood •
groups what they would like to see in their parks. He noted changes made at French
Creek Preserve due to desires of the neighborhood.
Bares reported that there is benefit to green area. He indicated there does not have to be
any amenity in place for people to enjoy it. Kelley agreed noting children need to have
space to explore, where exploration is the sole purpose.
Council discussed whether the trails should be vacated to the homeowners association.
Tunheim will work with the City Attorney towards that goal.
Jabbour asked Staff if any funds were allocated to the trails or value placed on them.
Moorse said no.
Tunheim said no park dedication was credited according to the resolution of 4/25/94.
Kelley moved to vacate the public trails providing a homeowners association is in place,
but he was informed by Barrett that such vacation would require a public hearing before
the Planning Commission. Kelley withdrew his motion.
Jabbour moved, Goetten seconded, to direct Staff to prepare the necessary documents
and schedule a public hearing for the City to relinquish their interest in the internal trails
provided a homeowners association is in place to which the easements are conveyed.
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
• ( #3 - Old Crystal Bay Road Addition Internal Trail System - Continued)
Barrett indicated that this would require the active participation of the homeowners of
2655 and 2635 Countryside Drive West, who would have to personally agree to an
easement for the residents of the subdivision. Jabbour amended his motion to include
Barrett's responsibility to see that the easement be provided by the homeowners
mentioned to the residents of the subdivision. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were no public comments.
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT
( #5) No item for this agenda number
( * #6) #2300 JAMES AND JOANNE JUNDT,1400 BRACKETTS POINT ROAD -
RENEWAL VARIANCES - RESOLUTION NO. 3986
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3986, granting variances to
James and Joanne Jundt of 1400 Bracketts Point Road for restoration of retaining walls,
underground grotto and lakeshore stairway system within 75' of the lakeshore. Vote:
Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( #7) #2301 GERALD MCCOURTNEY,1055 WEST FERNDALE ROAD -
VARIANCES - RESOLUTION NO. 3987
The applicant was present.
Gaffron reported that the request for variances includes landscaping within the right -of-
way of Ferndale Road, expansion of driveway apron in right -of -way, and construction of
a gate access within 75' of the lakeshore and in the right -of -way. Legal combination of
the properties cannot occur until court action has resolved the ownership of property in
question. Gaffron noted that the apron will match the other side of the driveway
allowing for better approach. The landscaping will be an arborvitae hedge set at 15 -17'
from the paved roadway. The right -of -way is 66'. The gated access will remain grassy
and allow for entry by private maintenance personnel.
Gaffron said the Planning Commission recommended approval subject to the two tax
parcels being legally combined once the court action has been finalized. The
Commission felt the removal of the house more than off -set the additional hardcover for
the apron, which greatly exceeds the allotted amount for a garage apron. Per prior
variance approval, an apron is allowed at a 40' width, which provided extra parking
space. Staff agreed with recommendation subject to a hold harmless agreement signed
by applicant for the improvements within the right -of -way.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
( #7 - #2301 Gerald McCourtney - Continued) •
McCourtney had no additional comments.
Goetten questioned the location of the gate. McCourtney said it is on the 75' line.
Goetten asked if the trees removed in the 0 -75' setback will be replanted. McCourtney
said the trees were removed after receipt of permit. A landscaping plan consisting of
approximately 60 arborvitae and 8 -10 trees and submitted to the City has been approved.
Flint moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3987 per Planning Commission
recommendation.
Gaffron commented that the legal combination cannot occur at this time but the
applicant would like to proceed with the projects. Barrett viewed the application as
having no relation to the court action and advise allowing the applicant to go forward
with the improvements if there is no contention regarding the property on which the
improvements will be made.
Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( * #8) #2303 ANGELA WOODHOUSE, 2625 NORTH SHORE DRIVE -
RENEWAL VARIANCES - RESOLUTION NO. 3988 is
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3988. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( * #9) #2304 DEBORAH SHOLL, 4100 WATERTOWN ROAD - VARIANCE -
RESOLUTION NO. 3989
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3989. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( * #10) #2306 DENNIS PLATTETER, 809 BROWN ROAD NORTH - RENEWAL
OF CLASS III PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION - RESOLUTION NO. 3990
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3990. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( #11) #2307 ELLEN PETERSON, 3355 CRYSTAL BAY ROAD - VARIANCE -
RESOLUTION NO. 3991
Van Zomeren distributed a photograph of the property.
The applicant was present.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
• ( #11 - #2307 Ellen Peterson - Continued)
Van Zomeren reported the proposal is for construction of a 282 s.f. carport addition with
a deck above over existing non - structural hardcover. The Planning Commission
recommended approval of all variances. A side variance is required for the carport
located 3.8' from the property line where 10' is required. The existing side setback is
6.2'. There will be a 10' encroachment of the lakeshore setback for the carport at 65'
from the lake. Van Zomeren indicated that the 21.25% of hardcover is the street itself
and must be eliminated from the calculations. The applicant is willing to remove 150
s.f. of plastic under rock in the landscaping to allow the increased hardcover for the
carport. Hardcover variances are required for both the 0 -75' and 75 -250' setbacks.
Van Zomeren showed the elevations of the property and improvements. She said further
clarification will be required in the resolution regarding the amount of hardcover for
Crystal Bay Road. The road is 612 s.f. as noted in Exhibit H.
Ellen Peterson received clarification from Jabbour that rock without plastic is
satisfactory as long as it is not compacted by vehicles.
Goetten questioned whether the portion of driveway that encroaches onto the
neighboring property is a problem. Van Zomeren said the applicant could be directed to
remove that portion as there is most likely enough turning radius. Van Zomeren said
• this portion was not included in the hardcover calculations and noted that driveways are
required to be 5' off the property line. Goetten said she would not add that
recommendation but wanted to ensure that Peterson was aware of the encroachment.
Goetten asked if there was a garage for the house. Van Zomeren said there was not. It
appears that the original tuck -under garage was converted to living space at some point
in time.
Jabbour noted that the size of the house is limited.
Jabbour moved, Flint seconded, to approve Resolution No. 3991 with the change noted
in the resolution regarding the square footage of roadway.
Goetten indicated that she had no problem with the application itself but because there
will be an increase of hardcover in the 0 -75', she would not support the motion.
Vote: Ayes 3, Nays 1, Goetten.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
MAYOR/COUNCIL REPORT •
Jabbour noted the joint meeting held on this date with the Planning Commission was
fruitful.
Flint said he is concerned with the Saga Hill development recently reviewed by Planning
Commission and the ability to build on the property given the topography. He asked the
City Engineer to review the application to ensure the development will not create
drainage problems for properties downstream. Jabbour received confirmation from
Gaffron that both the Planning Commission and Staff have scrutinized the application
and are reviewing resident concerns.
ENGINEER REPORT
( #12) DAKOTA AVENUE MAINTENANCE
Gappa reported that Dakota Avenue is a 600' long dead -end road with seven homes
accessing off of it. The road had been gravel but was recently paved as part of the sewer
project. The road has been privately maintained but there are no records showing the
history of why that occurred. Gappa said the residents have requested the City make a
determination regarding the maintenance of the road. The sewer project is now
complete, and Gappa asked Council to make the determination regarding responsibility
for maintenance. •
Gappa justified the road becoming public because it fits within the category of public
roads as it is adjacent to Long Lake Boulevard, which is maintained by the City, all the
other roads in the sewer project are public and maintained by the City, and the road now
has sewer in the street. Gappa said he understood that development in rural areas
usually hold to private road status, but he feels this road is more urban in nature, setting
no precedent.
Jabbour asked Gaffron for confirmation of the area's classification as rural. Gaffron said
the Comprehensive Plan needs to determine the differences between urban and rural
areas. He said sewer is not necessarily the guideline. What makes the neighborhood
different from the rural area is the lot sizes being less than 2 acres, averaging 1/2 to 1
acre in size. Gaffron views this as an urban cluster within the rural area of the City.
Jabbour said a distinction needs to be determined between this road and others to allow
the road to become public.
Barrett indicated that the road was platted public. This does not distinguish it, however,
as platted public roads are not necessarily made public.
Flint said his opinion of the area is one of being an urban area with how it is set up. .
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
• (# 12 - Dakota Avenue Maintenance - Continued)
Jabbour said the road is designated rural in the Comprehensive Plan.
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Kelley said Gappa's arguments are correct. The newer roads are platted, but it is
understood they will be private when developed. Kelley said the distinction is clearly
made today but has not always been in the past.
Jabbour said he would like to be sure that the Council is not acting on an item -by -item
basis. He said he understands that Gaffron is thoroughly aware of the situation. Jabbour
said he would like to change the classification and tie up any loose ends involved.
Gappa reported that there was only three cases of similar roads, Casco Cove, which has
recently been determined for public maintenance, Shore Hills Drive, and Dakota
Avenue. Shore Hills Drive is a very short street and still unpaved. Gappa said he
reviewed all of the sewered areas and hot spots and found all of the other roads to be
public.
Jabbour moved, Kelley seconded, to approve the public maintenance of Dakota Avenue.
Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( #13) STUBBS BAY PUBLIC LAKE ACCESS
Jabbour noted that the City Attorney just received the information regarding this issue.
He asked that Barrett be contacted earlier in the process in the future.
Gappa reviewed the background of the Stubbs Bay public lake access. He noted how the
access has been used the past 20 years. Rock was hauled in for use by the City with a
seasonal dock. Gappa reported that the 30' wide right -of -way was platted as Oak Street
and showed where it is located and the location of the Olsen property, which is two
separate tax parcels. Access has been over a portion of Lot 48 of the Olsen property.
The Olsen's purchased the property in November of 1996. The previous owner never
brought forward the issue of use. The dock was moved this summer onto the area
surveyed as the City's access as requested by the Olsen's.
Issues of concern include the City's parcel dropping off quickly in topography, and
containing wetlands which are different to traverse. He noted the Olsen property is
gradual in its slope, and was determined by the public at some point to be a better access
point. Gappa said to access the City dock, the public must cross over the Olsen
property. Gappa explained how the dock is installed..
Jabbour questioned whether there is room to get to the lake access on the City property.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
( #13 - Stubbs Bay Public Lake Access - Continued) •
Goetten noted the problem with travel on the access during the winter months. Gappa
confirmed that there is alot of snowmobile traffic and difficulty in enforcing the use of
the City property rather than that of the Olsen's. Gappa said it is problematic getting to
the City access with the steep bank.
Gappa suggested the City consider acquiring the land owned by the Olsen's for access or
make improvements to the City property to make it more desirable to use.
Jabbour said the City and general public have used the land owned by the Olsen's for
many years, noting it is used for parking, an occasional boat launch, and exercising of
animals. Jabbour received confirmation from Mrs. Olsen that she does not want the City
using her property any longer and is planning on barricading it.
Jabbour asked Barrett what the City's legal position is regarding the access.
Barrett said, according to Minnesota law, the City has acquired the right -of -way through
dedication, as it has been openly used and maintained by the City for more than 6 years.
Barrett noted the improvements are obvious to the eye when viewing it. He suggested
the Olsen's may have recourse with their title insurance company for the loss of the
property and cost of the survey.
Barrett said the City does not have fee title but does have a road easement. Gappa said
the Olsen's are objecting to this opinion.
Jabbour said, assuming the City has ownership, is the City interested in maintaining it.
If so, what should be equitably decided regarding the Olsen's. If it is determined that it
is not essential for the City to maintain the access, how can the City return the property
to the Olsen's if they now have the right to the property.
Barrett said a formal vacation would have to occur to return the property to the Olsen's.
Jabbour said that would include a public hearing. He questioned whether the DNR
would have to be notified. Gaffron said any change to a piece of right -of -way along the
lakeshore requires contact with the DNR. Jabbour noted that all parties concerned have
an interest in solving this issue as soon as possible.
Lisa Olsen, 3580 Bayside Road, referenced her letter, which includes information on the
property and the outcome from the meeting she attended with the Park Commission.
Olsen questioned whether the Council feels the information is in contrast with what
Gappa has in his report. She distributed a photo of the property. She noted the dock was
placed on City property this summer.
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14
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
• ( #13 - Stubbs Bay Public Lake Access - Continued)
Olsen said the City property could be usable if the weeds were contained and would
provide incentive for those to use it who wish to. In response to Barrett's comments
regarding Minnesota law, Olsen noted that it is common knowledge that the gravel was
added in the last five years. Since the gravel was added, traffic has accelerated and
caused the slope in the bank.
Olsen said she is unaware of where the dock has been located over the last 20 years but
feels it was placed arbitrarily. Gappa noted the property was surveyed and staked this
summer. Olsen indicated the access is only seasonally used. Olsen said it was her goal
to make the property more residential in nature with plantings.
Jabbour said it would be possible to document the use of the access back to the
beginning of aerial photography. He indicated he has personally used the property
himself to gain access. Kelley said he has used the property since 1979 noting the dock
is usually located to the left of the trail. Jabbour felt confident the City will be able to
show use over the past six years. Jabbour said he would like to solve the issue without
having to involve other agencies.
Susan Wilson said the Park Commission is in favor of maintaining the access as the
community does use it. She noted the access has been an amenity to the community but
• she would not like it located on the Olsen property. It was questioned whether access
can be totally provided from the existing City property and whether the portion used by
the City and owned by the Olsen's can be vacated.
Goetten indicated if it is the desire of the Council taking the facts presented by Barrett to
continue the use of the property, she would like to be fair to the Olsen's and reach some
agreement. She noted the Olsen's understood the property was theirs when it was
purchased.
Kelley asked Olsen if the title search revealed the use by the public. Olsen said it did
not. Kelley said he felt Olsen would have recourse with the title company.
Olsen said she does not believe the ownership by the City is established on that parcel.
Barrett said if the City uses the property and comes onto her portion of the property, that
would be the claim for ownership. He said it appears that the property has been
dedicated. Olsen said she then questions the facts.
Jabbour asked what it would take to establish the facts for Olsen to be satisfied with
ownership by the City. He encouraged Olsen to consider the facts and protect the rest of
her property. Jabbour noted he would personally be furious if he lost some of his land,
but indicated that the City has their hands somewhat tied as the use has established the
is City's right to the property. He voiced concern with involvement by the DNR and a
possible request for a designated trail resulting in further loss.
15
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
( #13 - Stubbs Bay Public Lake Access - Continued)
Kelley asked if Olsen would like to have further time to review the information. Olsen
said she would like to further discuss the matter. Barrett said he would be happy to
participate.
Jabbour reviewed Olsen's options: 1) to challenge the City by court action to retrieve the
property, noting the City can document its use; 2) note the piece of land removed from
her total land and be reimbursed by the title insurance and buffer the remaining property.
Jabbour said the portion lost is about 5 -6' but a major portion remains and should be
protected. Jabbour and Kelley agreed that the Olsen's should pursue recourse from their
title insurance company.
Jabbour asked Gaffron to become involved in the issue and determining what has
occurred. He asked Gaffron to review aerial photographs.
Kelley reported there is also an issue of liability noting the possibility of problems with
the ditch. Kelley said the issue may take time to resolve. He noted changes have
occurred on the property and could create problems for snowmobiling this winter with
the stakes, tree branches, etc. Olsen noted that concern for liability is what brought the
issue to this point.
Flint said if the property is public, the liability lies with the City. Kelley agreed but •
noted that the Olsen's could become tied up in the issue as well.
Flint noted the importance of distinguishing the property to eliminate further
encroachment. He suggested the use of posts and plantings.
Jabbour said the issue will be revisited at the next Council meeting. Meanwhile, Olsen
will meet with Gappa, Gaffron, and Moorse to review the information.
Jabbour asked whether fencing was an issue for Mrs. Olsen. He asked Gaffron to clarify
what can be done in the lakeshore. Gaffron said no fence can be placed in the 0 -75'. He
noted that staff needs to review fence issues with Mrs. Olsen. A 3 -1/2' high fence is
allowed outside the 0 -75% no fence or storage can occur in the 0 -75' setback. Olsen
received clarification on the ordinance regarding where fences can be located, the height,
and the problem with overlapping zones. Olsen indicated that they have repaired a fence
at the same height as existing with removal of one section that was located within the 75'
setback.
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16
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
( #13 - Stubbs Bay Public Lake Access - Continued)
Olsen questioned whether it would be best to wait for further action until the City takes a
formal position regarding the access property. Barrett said the property is a City road.
Jabbour said the information relayed to Olsen is the City's formal position. Jabbour
asked Olsen if she would prefer the Council vote on the matter. Olsen said she would
like to take the time to evaluate the information before the Council takes a formal vote.
Jabbour informed her the Council will reverse their decision if the review determines the
findings to be other than what has been noted.
Kelley asked Olsen to review dock locations with Staff.
( #14) BURNING PERMITS - STAFF REPORT - ORDINANCE AMENDMENT
Gappa reported the Council reviewed the issue of burning in August. Staff has
concluded that the existing burning policy should be confirmed regarding the size of
fires allowed; namely recreational fires of logs and charcoal 3' in width, and log fires of
piles 4' wide, 4' high, and 8' long. Staff believes the size of fires as stated is appropriate
to the density in Orono. Larger fires would be problematic.
Gappa noted the brush disposal site provided this summer was well received. Gappa
• indicated that the burning permits are currently for 30 day time periods and renewable.
Staff proposes annual permits requiring inspection of site, informing the police
department when a fire will be lit, and reinspection if a new permit is requested. No
changes in fire size with the density of development. He feels the larger areas will be
subdivided and should adhere to same regulations. Gappa noted that fires must be 50'
from any building. He indicated that the permits can be revoked.
Jabbour asked about protecting trees on properties where burning occurs. Gappa said
inspections are required to review the sites for such items as tree location.
Goetten asked if fires are limited to recreational only. Gappa said recreational, log
disposal fires, and the use of enough brush to get the fire started. Goetten asked if any
thought was given to larger log fires. Gappa said the concern is with grass fires
beginning and damaging homes.
Gappa reported that brush disposal sites will still be used. Goetten asked Staff to
consider at least two disposal times for brush or in cases of special circumstances.
Jabbour cautioned that the brush disposal site be used for residential brush only and not
commercial, noting the high dump costs.
17
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
(#14 - Burning Permits - Continued)
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Bob Gehrman said his neighborhood would like the issue of brush disposal and burning
better addressed. Gehrman said his intent is to work within the system first. Gehrman
said the City and its residents should be in partnership on the issue. Gehrman feels there
are different needs for different lot sizes. If the City does not provide adequate disposal
sites, Gehrman said more burning should be allowed. Gehrman said he has a concern
with smoke and wild fires, but these concerns can be issued with adequate inspection
and understanding liability. Gehrman noted that more than a little brush is required to
enable a fire to get started and burn hot.
Jabbour asked for special provisions and administrative judgment for larger fires with
inspection and increased fees. He is concerned that burning occurs without obtaining
permits. Jabbour said people should have the prerogative of having larger fires and have
a disposal site available.
Gappa said the yearly permit makes it easier to have fires and suggested opening up the
burning with use of brush for larger log fires.
Gehrman reported the City of Medina has a disposal site available all year long and
suggested a cooperative effort. Jabbour said the City would review options in an
economical manner.
Flint said he has several brush piles on his property, and it would be impossible to
remove all of it due to its location. He would support 8' fires including brush. It was
noted that removal of brush in wooded areas cause damage to smaller trees too.
Jabbour said he would support an expanded ordinance.
Kelley said he is concerned with fires on smaller properties and feels the Council needs
to include lot size in their review of the burning policy. He said brush piles would
increase the size of fires.
Moorse reported that cities have burned brush themselves but will have a fire truck
standing by if control is necessary. He suggested the fire department provide
information on the issue. Moorse noted the State fire code requires a certain distance
from a building for any fire. Moorse thought regulation of fire size for a particular lot
should be considered as well as what is located on the lot. A provision could be
included allowed a different size of fire through the inspection process. Gappa said an 8'
fire should be adequate.
Kelley asked if an applicant is responsible for notify his neighbors of a fire. Jabbour
agreed with notification of neighbors a certain distance away.
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18
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997
. ( #14 - Burning Permits - Continued)
Jabbour directed Staff to take a more extensive review on burning and provide disposal
site. He asked Staff to concentrate on solutions.
Kelley said he would be in favor of finding another solution that is safe that included
notification, lot size, what is on the property. Jabbour noted that a fire should be
attended at all times.
Gehrman noted that fires can be burned during the winter months.
Goetten asked about costs. Gappa said the City paid $1,600 this year for chipping the
large pile of brush collected. He noted the number of storms increased the size of the
pile. Gappa said wood chips were available to the residents on a couple of Saturdays
and chips were given to a developer as well. Jabbour said they could be used on trails;
though, few of Orono's trails use wood chips.
Goetten reiterated that lot size is important and what is on the property.
Gappa reiterated an 8' fire is sufficient.
( * 915) ORDER PREPARATION OF FEASIBILITY REPORT FOR SANITARY
is SEWER IN EDGEWOOD HILLS AREA - RESOLUTION NO. 3992
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3992 ordering the preparation
of a feasibility study for the Edgewood Hills Sanitary Sewer Project. Vote: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
( * #16) REQUEST FOR PAYMENT #3 - BAY RIDGE AND BRACKETTS POINT
SANITARY SEWER
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to approve Request for Payment No. 3, Bracketts
Point/Bay Ridge Sanitary Sewer Project to Barbarossa & Sons in the amount of
$94,305.55. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
CITY ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT
( #17) WEST HENNEPIN RECYCLING COMMISSION ENDOWMENT
PROPOSAL
Moorse reported that the City is involved with a joint powers organization for curbside
recycling with other cities. The budget for the organization has been underspent,
resulting in a reserve of about $20,000. A suggestion from the West Hennepin
• Recycling Commission is to provide an environmental endowment as a memorial to the
past Independence city clerk. The amount is larger than what had been expected.
19
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
( #17 - West Hennepin Recycling Commission Endowment Proposal - Continued) •
Moorse indicated the response to the suggestion on the reserve use has not been totally
positive and asked for Council feedback.
Jabbour questioned whether the reserve came from fees charged to residents.
Moorse said the City of Maple Plain's Attorney supported the use of the fund as noted.
Barrett questioned the ability of the City to establish an endowment and the educational
purpose. Moorse clarified that the reserves came from grant money provided to assist
the recycling program. The grant money pays for the Commission's coordinator and
information provided to residents. The fees collected are not involved in this.
Goetten suggested an endowment be sought from friends and family and questioned
whether government should be involved.
Jabbour said he also felt there was a legal question. Barrett agreed. He questioned
whether the City can provide an endowment and use funds received in this manner.
Kelley suggested the amount of reserves credited to Orono be reduced from the fees
charged.
•
Jabbour said the money can be used to make the next contribution to the Commission.
Jabbour asked Moorse to send a letter regarding the question of policy and legality of the
City's ability to participate in this proposal.
( * #18) BRACKETTS POINT SANITARY SEWER PROJECT ASSESSMENT
ROLL - RESOLUTION NO. 3993
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to approve Resolution No. 3993 adopting the
assessment roll for the Bracketts Point Sewer Project. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( 419) BAY RIDGE SANITARY SEWER PROJECT ASSESSMENT ROLL -
RESOLUTIONS NO. 3994
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3994 adopting the assessment
roll for the Bay Ridge Sewer Project. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( * #20) ORONO ICE ARENA SEWER AND WATER ASSESSMENT ROLL -
RESOLUTION NO. 3995
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3995 adopting the assessment •
roll for the Orono Ice Arena Water and Sewer Project. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
20
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
• ( * #21) RENEWAL OF LIVABLE COMMUNITIES ACT PARTICIPATION -
RESOLUTION NO. 3996
i
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3996 renewing the City's
participation in the Metropolitan Livable Communities Act Local Housing Incentive
Program for calendar year 1998. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( * #22) APPOINTMENT OF JAMES MOROWCZYNSKI TO SERGEANT
POSITION
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to appoint James Morowczynski to the position of
sergeant, effective October 14, 1997 at a pay rate of $24.13 per hour. Vote: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
(* #23) 1960 SHORELINE DRIVE - RELEASE TAX FORFEIT PROPERTY TO
ADJACENT OWNER - RESOLUTION NO. 3997
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to adopt Resolution No. 3997 releasing the tax forfeit
parcel at 1960 Shoreline Drive for sale to adjacent property owners. Vote: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
( * #24) CITY ADMINISTRATOR PAY INCREASE
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to approve a 3% salary increase for the City
Administrator effective September 9, 1997. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
( * #25) THIRD QUARTER EXPENDITURE REPORT
Information only; no Council action required.
CITY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
City Attorney Barrett had no report.
( * #26) LICENSES
There are no licenses.
( * #27) BILLS
Goetten moved, Kelley seconded, to approve payment of the All Funds Account. Vote:
Ayes 4, Nays 0.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL
MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27,1997
ADJOURNMENT
Kelley moved, Flint seconded, to adjourn at 9:53 p.m. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
Gab 'el Jabbour, Mayo
F.11161*111
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