HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/19/2006 Planning Commission Minutes - MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANIVING COMNIISSION MEETING
� Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
ROLL
The Orono Planning Commission met on the above-mentioned date with the following members
present: Chair David Rahn,Commissioners Ralph Kempf,Roland Jurgens,Dick Kroeger, and Cynthia
Bremer. Representing Staff were Planning Director Mike Gaffron,Planners Melanie Curtis and Evelyn
Turner, and Recorder Jackie Young. Council Member Jim White arrived at 8:52 p.m.
Chair Rahn called the meeting to order at 6:02 p.m.
CONSENT
Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to add Application#06-3205,Concept Landscaping on behalf of
JoAnn Jundt, 1400 Bracketts Point Road,to the Consent Agenda. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
Rahn opened the public hearing at 6:02 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding Application No. 06-3199 or Application No. 06-3205.
Rahn closed the public hearing at 6:02 p.m.
1. #06-3199 NIINNETONKA CENTER FOR ARTS,2240 NORTH SHORE DRIVE,
VARIANCE
Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#06-3199,granting of a
setback variance a conditional use permit amendment to permit construction of the open-sided
kiln shed as proposed for the Minnetonka Center for Arts,2240 North Shore Drive.
VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
� 5. #06-3205 CONCEPT LANDSCAPING ON BEHALF OF JOANN JUNDT, 1400
BRACKETTS POINT ROAD,VARIANCE
Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#06-3205, Concept
Landscaping on behalf of JoAnn Jundt, 1400 Bracketfs Point Road. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
OLD BUSINESS ,
2. #06-3183 PAUL THOMAS HOMES ON BEHALF OF GLENN D. SOLIE, 1430
CHERRY PLACE,VARIANCE
This item follows Item No.4.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
� Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
3. #06-3184 PAUL THOMAS HOMES ON BEHALF OF MAUREEN A.BRECKMAN,2695
CASCO POINT ROAD,VARIANCE
This item follows Item No.2.
NEW BUSINESS
4. #06-3204 CHAD M.LINDBLOOM,2690 RAINEY ROAD,VARIANCE,6:04—6:22 P.M.
Julie and Chad Lindbloom,Applicants, and Mark Warren,Contractor,were present.
Curtis stated the applicants are requesting variances to construct an addition to the home 30 feet from
the side street lot line,which is Outlot C,where a 50 foot setback is normally required from the side
street and to construct a detached accessory building set back 10.2 feet from the side street lot line
where a 50 foot setback is normally required.
Planning Staff recommends denial of the side street setback variance for the home addition and denial of
the variance for the detached accessory structure to be built within the side street yard.
Chad Lindbloom stated they have been working with a designer who designed some improvements to
their home. The contractor,prior to finalizing the plans, contacted the City and asked for the setbacks
� for this property. Lindbloom stated it was only upon submittal of a final plan and beginning site work
that they were notified that the City had an easement on Outlot C. The easement is not filed with the
title and they did not realize it would become an issue.
Lindbloom stated given the current configuration of the house,the current layout,and given the
wetlands surrounding the house,the plan they have submitted is the only way for them to meet their
needs. Lindbloom stated they do not feel the outlot will ever be used for a road in the future and that
none of the neighbors support the connection of the two roads.
Lindbloom stated in most cases,Orono and other communities are attempting to reduce the amount of
traffic going through residential areas, and that connection of the two roads would impact two
residential neighborhoods by increasing the traffic. Lindbloom stated they would like to proceed with
the improvements since the improvements would not have a detrimental impact to the city or the
neighborhood.
Rahn noted a 30-foot setback is required and that they were apparently told the wrong setback by Staff
for their district.
Lindbloom stated they were told the setbacks for Zone R-1B.
Kroeger inquired how many square feet the existing house is minus the garage.
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Monday,June 19,2006
� 6:00 dclock p.m. `
(#06-3204 CHAD LINDBLOOM,CONTINUED)
Lindbloom stated the house is approximately 4200 square feet without the basement.
Bremer commented the lot is heavily wooded, and if a variance were granted,it likely would not cause
any impact to the neighbors.
Lindbloom stated there is a 50 foot outlot between them and their neighbor and that the neighbors have
indicated they do not have a problem with the improvements.
Warren stated the property to the north also has a garage that is located 22 feet from the property line.
Kempf inquired whether it is Staff's position that some day this outlot may turn into a road and
therefore the City is requiring the setbacks from the road. Kempf inquired what the likelihood of
turning that outlot into a road would be.
Gaffron stated,as noted in the Staff report, since the 1970's the City has been requiring opposing
cul-de-sacs to create corridors to the next property. In a few cases those have been developed to provide
access to the next property up. Gaffron indicated he is not aware of any cases where the corridors
between dueling cul-de-sacs actually have been connected. Gaffron stated in his opinion there is a very
low likelihood that this outlot would be converted into a road but that the City would continue to
maintain its setback requirements.
Gaffron stated there probably is not any overwhelming emergency services benefit that would be gained
by connecting certain of the private roads that have these corridors. Gaffron indicated Staff would not
recommend that the variances be granted just on a public policy basis.
Kempf stated as far as maintenance,he understands it is difficult to maintain two cul-de-sacs as
compared to having a through street. Kempf noted a number of trees would need to be removed in order
to construct the road and that he does not envision that ever happening. Kempf stated the City would -
lose no rights to using that street as a street or an access in the future simply because there was a
variance granted.
Gaffron stated that is correct.
Kroeger stated one of the drawings depicts a new driveway to the west of the existing driveway, and
inquired replacement of the driveway is part of the plan.
Lindbloom stated the whole driveway would be replaced but only one entrance would remain.
Kempf stated it is unfortunate given the way circumstances have unfolded.
Warren stated the reason it may have been missed is because this easement in all likelihood will never
be used and,two,the fact that the easement is not recorded against the property. Warren stated the road
easement is filed on the homeowners association and not the individual properties.
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ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3204 C�Ir�D LINDBLOOM,CONTINUED)
Bremer stated from her perspective she would support a proposed addition that runs off the natural line
of where the proposed driveway is. Bremer commented there is difficult topography on this lot that
makes it hard to locate a building on this lot and that she would be in support of a 30-foot setback.
Bremer inquired whether the applicants checked the City's web site to verify the setback information.
Lindbloom stated the City's map on the web site makes it look like their property is located in the R1-B
district.
Warren stated their draftsman also made the same mistake as the Staff person when attempting to figure
out which district this property lies in.
Rahn stated he would have a difficult time finding a hardship for the accessory structure given the size
of the current garage. Rahn stated in his view it is doubtful the council would approve anything but a
30-foot setback given the lack of a hardship.
Kempf indicated he agrees with Commissioners Rahn and Bremer's comments.
Kroeger stated he also is in agreement with the comments made.
Rahn moved,Kempf seconded,to recommend approval of a setback variance no greater than
30 feet for Application#06-3204,Chad M.Lindbloom,2690 Rainey Road,subject to the City
Engineer's recommendations. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 1,Jurgens Opposed.
Jurgens stated in his view no hardship has been shown for any variance.
Rahn opened the public hearing.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Rahn closed the public hearing at 6:22 p.m.
OLD BUSINESS
2. #06-3183 PAUL THOMAS HOMES ON BEIiALF OF GLENN D. SOLIE, 1430
CHERRY PLACE,VARIANCE,6:22—6:27 P.M.
Glenn Solie,Applicant,and Paul Vogslxom, Contractor,were present.
Curtis stated the applicant is requesting lot area,lot width variances and a conditional use permit for
land alterations within the 0-75' zone in order to construct a new single family home and lake access
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6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3183 GLENN SOLIE, CONTINUED)
stair. The applicant has revised his request to address the issues staff brought up at the May Planning
Commission meeting and has also revised the plans for the changes to the lakeshore yard as well as
construct a new lake access stairway.
Planning Staff recommends approval of the lot width and lot area variances and the conditional use
permit for land alterations in conjunction with the City Engineer's recommendations.
Solie stated there was some confusion on the 0-75' zone and that he has submitted two different options
. for this area. Solie stated basically they would like to remove the deck in the 0-75' and that the City
Engineer recommended the survey be revised showing the removal of the deck. Solie indicated they
would be planting natural grasses in that area.
Rahn opened the public hearing.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Rahn closed the public hearing.
Bremer commented she likes the improvements that have been made by the applicant.
Bremer moved,Rahn seconded,to recommend approval of Application#06-3183,Paul Thomas
Homes on behalf of Glenn D. Solie, 1430 Cherry Place,granting of lot area,lot width,and a
conditional use permit for land alterations within the 0-75' zone,with the stipulation that the only
work to be conducted within the 0-75' zone is removal of the deck,and with the further
� stipulation that the survey be revised to reflect that change. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
3. #06-3184 PAUL THOMAS HOMES ON BEIiALF OF MAUREEN A.BRECKMAN,2695
� � CASCO POINT ROAD,VARIANCE,6:27—6:45 P.M.
Paul Vogstrom, Contractor,was present on behalf of Maureen Breckman.
Curtis stated the applicant is requesting lot width,lot area and 75-250' hardcover variances in order to
build a new single-family residence on a property consisting of 19,572 square feet in area and 60 feet in
width where 21,780 square feet exists and 100 feet is required. A hardcover variance is requested
within the 75-250' zone for 36.2 percent.
Curtis indicated this application was tabled at the May Planning Commission meeting in order for the
applicant to work with the adjacent neighbors to work cooperatively to remedy existing storm water
drainage problems. Since that time the City Engineer and Staff have met on site with the applicant and
the adjacent neighbor to the south and the applicant's engineer to discuss the site grading. Curtis
indicated it appears that the applicant has not completely addressed all of the city engineer's concerns
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6:00 o'clock p.m. �
(#06-3184 MAUREEN BRECKMAN, CONTINUED)
and that Staff would recommend tabling the application until all of the items raised by the City Engineer
are addressed. Curtis noted the City Engineer concurs with that recommendation.
Vogstrom stated they would be creating a swale between the two properties to address the drainage and
that according to his engineer,the other points raised by the engineer have addressed. Vogstrom stated
he would like to be able to proceed forward to the next City Council meeting.
Rahn inquired how long the city engineer would need to look at the new information.
Curtis stated the city engineer's office usually requires at least one week. Curtis stated the city engineer
has also recommended that this application be tabled and that in her view some applications proceed
forward to the council without all the drainage and grading issues being addressed.
Vogstrom stated the city engineer gave them the approval to grade up to five feet of the property line.
� Vogstrom stated basically they are going to create swales on the property and that in his opinion these
issues can be worked out between the engineers.
Kempf stated he does not have a problem with the application if the engineer signs off on these issues.
Rahn opened the public hearing.
Larry Kane,2697 Casco Point Road, stated the applicant's plan shows his land being 1.5 feet higher
than his and that the land originally was the same elevation on both lots. Kane indicated he has been
experiencing runoff problems since the elevation of the land was raised.
Dave Runkel,2684 Casco Point,stated he has two concerns regarding this application. Runkel stated
approximately five residences lost their telephone lines when some work was done on this property this
morning. Runkel stated the road in this area is an S curve and,if possible,the construction people could
park on the city lot just to the south that is more or less an outlot to avoid any more congestion on Casco
Point Road.
Rahn inquired how construction parking is typically handled by the city.
. Gaffron stated people are allowed to park wherever it is not posted no parking. Gaffron stated if people
, are attempting to park on both sides in this area,it would create a problem and that the police
deparhnent may choose to post portions of the street no parking. Gaffron commented there is a steep
slope down to the house and that the construction workers may not wish to park on the property.
Gaffron stated this is an issue that will need to be discussed.
Runkel stated he does not want his land used for parking.
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ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3184 MAUREEN BRECKMAN,CONTINLTED)
Vogstrom stated they were attempting to get the sewer and water connected and that Gopher One
inadvertently forgot to mark the telephone line and that repairs are in the process of being made.
Rahn inquired whether there are any hardcover calculations.
Curtis stated revised hardcover calculations have been submitted and the applicant is now proposing
30.6 in the 75-250' zone rather than 36.2 percent.
Rahn stated he is more inclined to having the drainage issues resolved prior to moving this application
forward.
Bill Miller,2691 Casco Point Road, stated in his view reducing the width of the driveway is creating a
public safety issue and that the hardship for a wider driveway is the topography of the lot. Miller stated
another lot on Casco Point has close to 45 percent hardcover and they were allowed a side setback
variance and were only required to remove 100 square feet of hardcover. Miller stated that property
also has a drop-off on their driveway. Miller stated he has lived in this area since 1981 and that he has
seen cars go off that driveway. Miller requested the width of the driveway remain the same.
Kane stated he is opposed to the additional hardcover since it would cause more runoff onto his
� property. Kane stated his driveway is not that wide and he also has a drop-off.
Gaffron stated the minimum width for a driveway is eight feet.
Jurgens stated it does not limit the applicant's ability to create a flat spot next to the driveway consisting
of grass. Jurgens stated the Planning Commission feels that 30 percent hardcover is reasonable.
Rahn noted the applicant is substantially below on the structural coverage.
Rahn closed the public hearing at 6:44 p.m.
Jurgens moved,Kempf seconded,to table Application#06-06-3184,Paul Thomas Homes on
behalf of Maureen A.Breckman,2695 Casco Point Road,to allow the applicant time to resolve
the outstanding drainage and grading issues. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
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MINUTES OF TF�
ORONO PLANNING COAZNIISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
NEW BUSINESS, CONTINUED
6. #06-3206 KEN ANDERSON,4225 FOREST LAKE DRIVE,VARIANCE,6:45—7:11
P.M.
Ken and Laurie Anderson,Applicants, and Kathy Alexander,Architect,were present.
Turner stated the applicants are proposing to add a second story to the existing residence and also to
square out their garage so that it is rectangular instead of having an angled corner. The applicants are
requesting a hardcover variance to allow 32.6 percent in the 0-75 foot zone and 42 percent in the .
75-250 foot zone,a setback variance to allow the structure to be located 25 feet from Forest Lake when
a 75-foot setback is required, and a setback variance to allow the garage to have a 5.7 foot setback from
the side property line when a 10-foot setback is required.
Turner stated the applicants have indicated that they would remove a portion of the deck and two
portions of the patio to reduce hardcover.
Turner displayed illustrations of the front,rear and side elevations of the house. Turner indicated the
present structure is a single-story,primarily flat-roofed structure and that the applicants are proposing to
square out their attached garage and add a second story of 1,742 square feet. The house is situated half
in the 0-75' zone and half in the 75-250' zone.
Planning Staff feels it is a reasonable request to add a pitched roof to the house. The Commission
should consider if the applicants have demonstrated that the second story,which requires more volume
than would be necessary for just a pitched roof,is necessary to make reasonable use of the property.
The plans show that nearly all the interior walls on the first floor would be removed and replaced at
different locations.
Turner stated the deck, even after the proposed reduction in size,would still measure 18'by 36'. This
does not include the 7' by 36' porch adjacent to the deck.
Rahn inquired whether any hardcover calculations were done for the staff recommendation.
Turner stated the approximate number is 24 percent in the 0-75 foot zone. There would be a small
reduction in the hardcover in the 75-250 foot zone.
Kroeger noted the squaring off of the garage would not increase the hardcover since there is akeady
hardcover in that area.
Rahn opened the public hearing at 6:54 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Rahn closed the public hearing at 6:54 p.m.
PAGE 8
MINUTES OF TFIE
ORONO PLANIVING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3206 KEN ANDERSON,CONTINUED)
Kempf stated he likes the recommendations by Staff for reducing the hardcover and for squaring off the
garage without a variance.
Rahn stated he also likes Staff's recommendations.
Anderson stated he has owned this house since 1991 and that one of the reasons for purchasing the
house was the deck. He got married on the deck and that they like to use the deck. He uses the area
under the deck for storage. If he reduces its size,he would need to construct an accessory storage shed
or increase the size of his garage.
Alexander commented from her standpoint this is a tough remodel since the property exceeds the
structural coverage and hardcover allowances. Alexander indicated Staff did encourage squaring off the
garage,which is why they chose to pursue the side yard setback.
Rahn stated he cannot think of an instance where he voted in favor of a setback variance, and that if the
applicant would like to retain the deck, other hardcover would have to be removed. Rahn commented it
comes down to the choices the applicant chooses to make and that there is an excessive amount of
hardcover on this lot. Rahn stated in his view this appears to be a major project and goes beyond just
adding a second story.
Alexander stated a few interior walls will be relocated and that they will be tearing off the roof and
adding a second story.
Rahn inquired whether all the exterior walls would remain.
Alexander indicated they would remain.
Rahn inquired whether an engineer has been consulted regarding the extra weight that will be placed on
the foundation.
Alexander stated an engineer has reviewed that.
Rahn stated he is in favor of staff's proposal.
Jurgens stated he agrees the side yard setback is a design issue and he would not be in favor of it. In his
opinion the deck is massive and could be reduced further.
Anderson pointed out they have removed some of the hardcover on the lot.
Jurgens stated in his view the hardcover could be reduced further and that the applicant has the option of
renting a storage unit. Jurgens commented even though the hardcover was in existence prior to the
applicants purchasing the property,no hardcover variances have been granted for this property. Jurgens
PAGE 9
. MINUTES OF THE
. ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3206 KEN ANDERSON, CONTINUED) .
stated a hardship has to be demonstrated in order for a variance to be granted and that the only hardship
he sees is that the house was constructed and then the codes changed.
Jurgens indicated he likes the narrowing of the driveway and removal of some of the other hardcover.
Jurgens reiterated he would like to see the size of the deck reduced.
Mrs.Anderson stated they are making a reduction in the amount of hardcover with what they have
proposed.
Bremer stated this is an opportunity for the City to bring this property closer to compliance with the
City's hardcover standards. Bremer stated in her view this project is very close to being a rebuild rather
than a remodel,but because it is a remodel,they will probably get more hardcover and structural lot
coverage than would be allowed on a rebuild.
Bremer pointed out that considerable square footage is being added in the 0-75' zone by adding the
second story. Bremer recommended the applicants consider their options for expanding the inside
storage and that she would support reduction in the size of the deck.
Bremer inquired whether it is a design problem to do the garage as Staff is recommending or whether it
should remain as is.
Alexander stated from her perspective being squared off would be better.
Kempf stated the Planning Commission has the ability to require property owners to bring their lots
more into compliance and that it is not a slam dunk to add a second story.
Rahn stated the design gives the structure the appearance of a story and a half rather than a two-story,
which makes the second story less of an issue.
Alexander inquired whether more of the concrete pad could be removed on the walkout level as well as
narrowing of the driveway,with half of the existing deck being removed.
Turner stated the issue is more than hardcover and that the deck is located high enough off the ground
that it might be considered structural coverage. Turner indicated another issue is the location of the
� deck so close to the lake.
Rahn commented decks are not always permanent and that they can be removed.
Bremer inquired whether there was a permit for the deck.
Anderson stated the deck was there at the time they purchased the property.
Rahn inquired whether the applicants would like to revise their plans.
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ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
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6:00 o'clock p.m.
. (#06-3206 KEN ANDERSON,CONTINUED)
Anderson indicated he would like his application tabled.
Bremer stated if the retaining walls are necessary for grading,the Planning Commission would need to
be informed of that.
Anderson stated removal of the rocks would cause additional water runoff into the lake and really
should be a nonissue.
Turner stated she took into account when she did the hardcover calculation that some of the rocks are
required for retainage.
Rahn moved,Kempf seconded,to table Application#06-3206,Ken Anderson,4225 Forest Lake
Drive,to allow the applicants time to revise their drawings. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
7. #06-3207 RICK AND JULIE KRIEGER,355 STUBBS BAY ROAD,CONDITIONAL
USE PERMIT,7:12—7:29 P.M.
� Sven Gustafson, Contractor,was present on behalf of the Applicants.
Gaffron stated the applicants are in the midst of constructing an addition to their barn and they are now
requesting,based on the nature of that structure and the use of the structure,to include installation of
plumbing consisting of a toilet,lavatory and shower,plus a sink and laundry facilities,to be connected
to a holding tank rather than the existing septic system serving the residence.
Gaffron indicated he has not had an opportunity to review the report that was recently submitted by the
applicants.
Staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit subject to the standard covenants regulating
use of accessory structures with plumbing. The use of a holding tank rather than connection to a septic
system should be discussed with the applicants in the context of the proposed use of the facilities.
,
Rahn commented he is not familiar with a holding tank.
Gustafson stated the holding tank is for financial reasons. In addition,the barn is located quite a
distance from the septic system and could possibly create problems with hookup. Gustafson stated the
septic system is located on the right-hand side of the property.
Rahn inquired what size tank would be put in the ground.
Gustafson stated he is unsure but he believes the tank would be 2000 gallons.
PAGE 11
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ORONO PLANNING COD�INIISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3207 RICK AND JLTLIE KR�GER, CONTINUED)
Gaffron stated a holding tank is not something that has been typically approved by the City and is only
allowed by Counsel approval. Staff would like to see some type of maintenance agreement to insure
proper maintenance of the holding tank system with provisions to require discontinuance of use in the
event of inappropriate disposal methods.
Bremer stated in her view,given the limited use of the structure, a holding tank seems appropriate and
that she personally would be in support of a holding tank if there is a maintenance agreement on file
with the City.
Jurgens inquired whether the stalls would be drained into the holding tank.
Gustafson stated to his knowledge the stalls drain into an open trench drain and not into the holding
tank.
Jurgens inquired how far the barn is located to the septic system.
Gaffron stated 250 to 300 feet minimum.
Jurgens stated the applicants could do directional boring to connect the barn to the septic system, and
that in his opinion if the applicant looks at the costs long-term,they would find that directional boring
would be more cost effective and that there is not a big savings benefit to a holding tank.
Gustafson stated they would have to go around the swimming pool or around the front of the house to
� do directional boring and that he is unsure whether the applicants would be in favor of that type of
system.
Jurgens stated he personally would not be in favor of the holding tank and that the holding tank is more
a matter of convenience for the applicants.
Kempf noted there is a statement in Staff's report concerning the use of the laundry facilities for
washing of horse blankets and that it may be reasonable to separate these two systems. Kempf inquired
whether washing of horse blankets is harder on a septic system.
Gustafson stated they were concerned about the hair.
Bremer inquired how washing the horse blankets would impact a septic system.
Jurgens stated the hair would settle to the bottom of the septic tank as a solid and would not break down
but that a septic tank should be pumped at least every three years.
Gaffron stated another alternative would be to construct a separate septic system and that it comes down
to the amount of use the facility would generate. Gaffron stated the City in the past has allowed holding
tanks for two to three years until city sewer is available at their property and that the City has not
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Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3207 RICK AND JULIE KRIEGER, CONTINUED)
allowed a holding tank in the past for an indefinite period of time. Gaffron stated a new septic system
would cost between$10,000 to$15,000,and that the long-term costs of the holding tank depend on the
amount of use.
Gustafson stated the property owners do not anticipate a great amount of use.
Jurgens stated a washing machine would produce a significant amount of water if it is used a couple of
times a week. .
Bremer moved,Rahn seconded,to recommend approval of Application#06-06-3207,Rick and
Julie Krieger,355 Stubbs Bay Road,granting of a conditional use permit to allow installation of
plumbing consisting of a toilet,lavatory and shower,plus a sink and laundry facilities,with the
recommendation that the property owners consider a separate septic system for the accessory
building,and subject to the property owners executing the City's standard covenants regulating
use of accessory structures with plumbing. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 1,Jurgens Opposed.
Rahn opened the public hearing at 7:29 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Rahn closed the public hearing at 7:29 p.m.
(Recess taken at 7:29—7:33 p.m.)
8. #06-3208 RYAN COMPAIVIES US,INC., ON BEHALF OF VCI CAPITAL,SE CORNER
OF WEST WAYZATA BOULEVARD AND OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD,CONDITIONAL
USE PERMIT AND COMMERCIAL SITE PLAN REVIEW,7:33-8:48 P.M.
Genevieu McJilton,Ryan Companies; Jeff Helpka,Ryan Companies; Steve Swanke,RLK; and
Jed Lockwood,RLK,were present.
Turner stated the applicants are requesting approval of a Class III subdivision of four industrial lots.
Preliminary review of the site plan and conditional use permits for development of the lots is also
requested. Turner indicated because this is a Class III subdivision,this initial review is a sketch plan
review. '
Rahn inquired whether the City Engineer has reviewed these plans.
Turner stated the City Engineer had reviewed the initial plans and did provide some comments,which
the applicant responded to. Turned stated the city engineer has not had an opportunity to respond to the
applicants' latest revisions.
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ORONO PLANNING COMIVIISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPANIES,CONTINUED)
McJilton stated they are looking for approval to renovate the existing building,remove the small office
building,which was originally a house,and the"butler"building, and to add three additional
office/warehouse buildings. McJilton stated the phasing of the project would involve the removal of the
small office building and renovation of the existing building at the start of development, followed by
construction of the office/warehouse buildings. Most likely the building on the corner would be the
first one constructed. Mc7ilton stated it is their belief the project is consistent with the Orono's
Comprehensive Plan.
McJilton stated they have had limited time to review Staff's comments that they just received today.
McJilton stated the first issue deals with the conditional use permit and that they are proposing building �
materials that would utilize the same features and colors as the two smaller buildings. McJilton
indicated they have brought boards displaying the materials they are proposing to utilize on the
buildings and that they are also looking to do some upgrades to the existing building but that the use of
the building was remain basically the same.
McJilton stated the second issue is the roadway/right-of-way width for the public street that is being
proposed and would connect to the Morrie's Automotive property. McJilton stated there was some
discussion concerning the right-of-way during the approval process for the newly adopted industrial
ordinance and it was their understanding they should propose the width of the right-of-way. McJilton
stated they are proposing a 50-foot right-of-way,with the City recommending a 70-foot right-of-way,
and that they are in the process of completing a variance application. McJilton indicated the paved
section would remain at 32 feet and a 50-foot right-of-way would allow reasonable access to the
property and reasonable use of the property.
McJilton stated they are somewhat challenged given the location of the existing building and the
separation required between the intersection with Old Crystal Bay Road and the bridge over the railroad.
McJilton stated the third issue was limiting the driveways to right-in/right-out only. Because the
"butler"building would not be removed before the building on the corner was constructed,the corner
building and building to be renovated would have very limited access if these driveways were restricted.
It was their understanding the driveway to Wayzata Boulevard would remain as is until a median was
constructed. At that time the driveway would be shifted east to the property line so it could be shared
with Western Steel but there would be no opening in the median. Based on their traffic study,there was
no need to limit the driveway to Old Crystal Bay Road to right-in/right-out only.
McJilton indicated the final issue deals with drainage and that they are worldng with MnDOT as it
relates to the pond. McJilton indicated they have presented that data to Morrie's Automotive last week.
McJilton indicated they concur with staff to move this application forward to the City Council.
Rahn opened the public hearing at 7:44 p.m.
There were no comments regarding this application.
PAGE 14
� MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNTNG COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 dclock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPANIES, CONTINUED)
Rahn closed the public hearing at 7:44 p.m.
Helpka stated the selection of the materials is somewhat driven by the existing building and how that
could be improved and integrated with the new buildings. Helpka stated the Quik Brik is basically a
concrete masonry unit,or CMiJ,which has been accepted by other cities as a brick material. Helpka
stated they are complying with the 67/33 ratio required in the City's ordinance. Helpka indicated they
are proposing to use the reddish colored block as a highlight.
Helpka illustrated the location of the existing building and the layout of the three new buildings. Helpka
indicated the new buildings are 33,000 square foot buildings and that the buildings will be geared more
towards office use,with one building being geared towards office/warehouse use. Helpka sta.ted they
would be using a burnished brick on the buildings as well.
Kroeger inquired whether the signage shown in the renderings is compliant with the City's ordinance.
Helpka stated it is.
Jurgens stated Quik Brik is not brick and inquired whether it meets the City's requirement.
Turner stated that is a determination Staff would like the Planning Commission to make.
Jurgens stated it is still a concrete block.
Helpka indicated the material is called quick brick and goes through a different finishing process than
concrete. Helpka indicated it is 12 inches thick and can be installed quickly. Helpka stated they are
currently using it in two medical office buildings and that Target has utilized this material in many of
the newer Target stores.
Rahn inquired whether there would be grouted joints.
Helpka stated there are grouted joints and that in his view it is brick.
Gaffron inquired whether there are any buildings nearby that the Planning Commission members could
review.
Helpka indicated he could provide a list of buildings that utilize the Quik Brik. Helpka stated they
started using this product approximately six to eight months ago.
McJilton stated Maple Grove did approve use of the Quik Brik recently.
Bremer inquired what the price difference is between Quik Brik and actual brick.
PAGE 15
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPANIES,CONTINUED)
Helpka stated the price difference is not significant but that the quick brick is slightly cheaper. Helpka
stated they like utilizing the Quik Brik because there is no cavity between the block and the brick as
there is with actual brick and there is always the chance of moisture getting into this cavity.
Rahn inquired what type of tenants the office/warehouse building would have. •
McJilton stated the tenants would depend on the market and would consist of 10,000 to 20,000 square
feet users. McJilton indicated they have seen some interest with the smaller warehouse units.
Mark Nordland,Ryan Companies, stated the type of tenants they envision utilizing the smaller
warehouse units would be a lab/tech/office type of use,which oftentimes needs a loading dock.
Nordland indicated the loading dock could be shared between tenants.
Helpka stated the idea is to make the buildings as flexible as possible.
Rahn stated he is more interested in the traffic flow rather than the materials being proposed. Rahn
commented the road appears to have a tight turning radius.
Helpka stated the turning radii are functional.
Nordland stated the majority of the trucks would be smaller than the largest semi-truck but that the site
can accommodate large trucks.
Jurgens stated in his opinion the turning radii are not large enough and that the large trucks would have
problems with a right-in/right-out and that the turning radius should be increased. Jurgens stated he is
unsure how they would be able to accommodate a right-in/right-out given the radius that is being
proposed.
McJilton stated they could take a second look at the design.
Jurgens stated he would like to see the centerline of Wayzata Boulevard depicted on the plans. Jurgens
indicated in his view an eastbound truck entering the site would have to cross the centerline
McJilton stated it is her understanding it would become a right-in/right-out sometime in the future and
that what is reflected on their plans is what exists today.
Jurgens inquired when that would change.
Gaffron stated that change potentially is five years away,with the new highway not anticipated to be
open unti12008 or 2009. Gaffron stated preliminary plans show that the section between Willow Drive
and Old Crystal Bay will have a median,with the only opening at the new street along the east side of
Morrie's Automotive property. Gaffron stated they have recommended that to provide westbound
PAGE 16
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANIVING CONIlVIISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPAI�TIES,CONTINLTED)
access to Western Steel,some agreements would need to be reached to allow access across the Ryan site
with a shared driveway to Wayzata Boulevard at the common property line.
Rahn inquired whether the plan depicts a 50-foot right-of-way.
McJilton stated it does and that they would like that to be full access.
Bremer inquired whether there is an actual turn lane built into the design.
Jurgens stated it would be nice to see the pavement markings and how that would be affected and what
impact stacking would have in this area.
Bremer stated if there is not a full access point as depicted,in her opinion there would be difficulty
accessing this site. Bremer commented the building materials and color scheme look nice and that in
her opinion the color scheme should remain consistent on all of the buildings.
Kempf stated the materials are perfectly good in his opinion and that he likes the look and color of the
materials.
Kempf inquired what type of landscaping is being proposed.
McJilton illustrated the screening proposed for the lot.
Helpka stated the landscaping is intended to provide screening and be ornamental.
Nordland stated they are willing to work with Staff to incorporate whatever specific type of landscaping
the City would like to see on this lot.
Kempf stated he does not have any particular problems with what is being proposed and that the
landscaping helps to soften the buildings.
Jurgens commented the left upper corner of the plan [adjacent to the existing building] appears to be
somewhat light on the landscaping.
McJilton stated they are proposing some trees in that area.
Jurgens stated he would like to see that area be more uniform with the rest of the site.
Nordland stated currently there is quite a bit of green space in that area and that the building is set back
a little. Nordland stated it might make sense to incorporate more landscaping in that area at the time the
parking is constructed.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMIVIISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPANIES, CONTINUED)
Kempf stated he would like to see it done at the time the other landscaping is completed to ensure that
the plantings mature at the same time. Kempf concurred that additional landscaping should be provided
in that area.
Jurgens commented he would like the materials to resemble brick as much as possible. Jurgens inquired
how the other commissioners feel about the building on Lot 1,Block 1,and the CUP.
Nordland stated these materials are an upgrade over precast concrete and fit in txaditionally with the
type of materials that tenants would expect of a new development.
Jurgens stated he likes the appearance but expressed concern that it does not meet the City's
requirement for building materials.
Bremer inquired whether the rear of the buildings would comply with the 67/33 ratio.
Helpka indicated they are attempting to make the existing building look compatible with the smaller
buildings by using paint.
Nordland stated they are high quality materials and there is a mixture of textures.
Bremer stated the City did work hard to get that ordinance written the way it is and expressed a concern
about granting a variance with the first application that comes before them.
Gaffron pointed out that this would be a conditional use permit and not a variance so no hardship has to
be demonstrated.
Bremer commented the materials are attractive looking and that it might have been helpful to have the
materials before them at the time the building material ratio was discussed. Bremer pointed out the
Planning Commission is merely a recommending body and that the City Council may not approve of the
building material being proposed.
Gaffron stated Staff treated this as a sketch plan review,which allows the Planning Commission and
City Council to get a preliminary look at the plans. Gaffron stated the Planning Commission would see
this application again as a preliminary plat and site plan.
Bremer stated in her view this proposal fits in with the character of Orono and also fits in with the
zoning for this area. Bremer stated her biggest concern relates to traffic.
Gaffron requested the Planning Commission consider the back building and the 50-foot corridor versus
the 70-foot corridor. Gaffron questioned whether the design of the L-shaped building is driving the
need for a variance.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANIVING COMIVIISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPANIES, CONTINUED)
McJilton stated the width of the building is 120 feet,which is about as narrow as you should get for this
type of building. Shifting the building south 20 feet would limit the amount of space available for the
turning radius,which would cause problems for the larger trucks.
Rahn inquired whether 70 feet is the right-of-way.
Turner stated that would allow 20 feet of boulevard on either side of the roadway.
Bremer commented screening would be a number one priority for her on that building.
Jurgens inquired what the city's standard is for a road right-of-way.
Gaffron stated it is 70 feet and that the applicant is requesting a variance.
Jurgens inquired why it is being shown as an outlot.
Swanke stated the intent is to dedicate it at the time of final plat.
Jurgens stated the road right-of-way should be 70 feet.
Rahn stated he is in agreement with the 70 feet and that the applicants may need to find a different use
for the building.
Rahn opened the public hearing at 8:33 p.m.
Peter Johnson,Morrie's Automotive, stated they have approximately 66 feet between their east property
line and this parking lot. They would not be in a position to dedicate 70 feet of roadway when and if the
property is subdivided. Johnson stated if they have 70 feet of right-of-way from the west,the road
might need to stop at that area because Morrie's is not willing to lose that parking. `
Johnson stated by moving the right-of-way to the south,they would also face the same issues that Ryan �
Companies would face. Johnson stated they support Ryan's request for a variance on the road width.
Johnson stated they do have some concerns regarding the drainage plan and that they will be delineating
those concerns later,but at the present time the drainage is not what they had hoped for. Johnson
indicated they had hoped the drainage would be taken to the south
. Rahn closed the public hearing at 8:37 p.m.
Gaffron stated one other item the Planning Commission may want to discuss is upgrades to the north
side of the fapade.
PAGE 19
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
. 6:00 o'clock p.m.
(#06-3208 RYAN COMPANIES, CONTINUED) �
Turner stated two items related to this application would be the issue of parldng and that if more parking
is provided than required by code,they could reduce the parking to provide additional green space and
provide more space between the trees. Turner requested clarification of the screening along Old Crystal
Bay Road and whether it is the intent to screen the buildings or the parking.
Rahn stated it would be nice to get elevations of the landscaping and the height of the trees depicted on
the plans.
Gaffron inquired whether there is any berming proposed.
McJilton stated along Old Crystal Bay Road there is no berming proposed.
Gaffron commented a three to four foot berm could make a significant difference.
Nordland stated they would take a look at berming and the type of plantings that could be utilized to
screen the parking area. .
Gaffron requested a perspective of the back of the building as you are northbound on the bridge.
McJilton stated the parking standard is four per thousand and that they have tried to get it as close to the
five per thousand as possible. McJilton stated they would be less inclined to reduce parking to create
green space and then not be able to provide parldng for office users.
� Rahn inquired whether the City requires screening of rooftop units.
Turner stated in her view the parapet walls would take care of the majority of the screening of the
rooftop units.
McJilton stated they would take a look at the view from the bridge.
Gaffron stated the ordinance requires that the rooftop units be screened from view from the ground at
the property line.
McJilton stated they have screened the rooftop units from the ground at the property line.
Jurgens inquired about trash enclosures.
McJilton stated they would be located inside the building.
The Planning Commission took no formal action on this item.
PAGE 20
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
PLANNING COMIVIISSION COMMENTS
9. REPORT OF PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVES ATTENDING
COUNCIL MEETINGS MAY 22 AND JUNE 12,2006
Kempf reported on the June 12th City Council meeting,noting that the Orono Lane application had a
number of neighbors expressing their concerns regarding the lot line rearrangement,with the application
eventually being tabled by the Council. Kempf stated the applicant on Rest Point Road was given
' direction that the hardcover should be reduced,with this application also being tabled. .
Kroeger reported on the May 22nd Council meeting,noting that the meeting was completed before 8:00.
Kroeger commented the City should have a tree ordinance.
White stated the Park Commission did attempt to come up with a tree ordinance but that it came down
to the property owner's right to do what he wanted with the trees on his property unless the trees are
located near the lakeshore.
10. OTHER ISSUES FOR DISCUSSION
Kroeger noted the property located across the industrial park on Crystal Bay Road is for sale and
inquired whether this would be an opportunity to look at higher density in that area.
Gaffron stated that area is currently zoned RR-1B,two acre,and is guided in the Comprehensive Plan
for three to four units per acre with a mix of single-family. Gaffron stated there are two properties in
that section and that the one consisting of 20 acres is currently for sale. Gaffron stated a plan was
proposed approximately two years for 45 to 60 units,which was considered too dense by the Council.
White stated that land also had a number of wetlands,which were not properly delineated, and other
issues that were considered in that application.
Gaffron stated the City has received an application for the property next to Stone Bay where they are
proposing lower level retail and upper level office space.
11. PLANIVING COMNIISSION APPROVAL OF NIINUTES FOR MAY 15,2006
Kroeger moved,Rahn seconded,to approve the minutes of the Orono Planning Commission
meeting of May 15,2006 as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
PAGE 21
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,June 19,2006
6:00 o'clock p.m.
12. SELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS ON JUNE
26 AND JULY 10,2006
June 26—Kempf
July 10—Jurgens
ADJOURNMENT
Bremer moved,Kroeger seconded,to adjourn the Planning Commission meeting at 9:09 p.m.
VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
There being no further business to discuss,t eeting was adjourned at 9:09 p.m.
.�-��
David Rahn,Chair
PAGE 22