HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-27-2009 Council MinutesNo
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
ROLL
The Orono City Council met on the above - mentioned date with the following members present:
Mayor James White, Council Members Jim Murphy, Lili McMillan, Cynthia Bremer, and
Douglas Franchot. Representing Staff were City Administrator William Wells, Assistant City
Administrator for Long -Term Strategy Mike Gaffron, Planning and Zoning Coordinator Melanie
Curtis, Planner Evelyn Turner, City Attorney Soren Mattick, and Recorder Jackie Young.
CONSENT AGENDA
Item Nos. 5, 7, 10. 11, and 13 were added to the Consent Agenda.
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. VOTE:
Ayes 5, Nays 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
*2. REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING OF APRIL 13, 2009
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to approve the minutes of the Orono City Council
• meeting of April 13, .2009, as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS — KIM KANG, REPRESENTATIVE
Kang stated she had nothing to report but would be available for questions.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
None
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT
3. #08 -3361 CITY OF ORONO, CODE AMENDMENT FOR HARDCOVER
REGULATIONS — REVIEW ORDINANCE
Turner noted this application started with the recommendation from the City Attorney that the
hardcover policies as expressed in a couple of resolutions be incorporated into the City Code. A
discussion was had with the Planning Commission regarding this item as well as whether weed
control fabric should also be included as hardcover. Staff has decided that the City's current
hardcover policies should be incorporated into the Code and recommends that the City Council
decide whether weed control should be considered hardcover later.
• After the initial reviews by the Planning Commission, the City Attorney pointed out a state statute
that might place the City in the position of having to compensate property owners for removals of
PAGE 1
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(3. #08 -3361 CITY OF OR ONO, CODE AMENDMENT FOR HARDCOVER
REGULATIONS, Continued)
non - conforming hardcover. The City Attorney has drafted an ordinance, which does not include
provisions requiring removal of non - conforming hardcover. Staff has requested that hardcover
debiting be included. Hardcover debiting is subtracting the amount of excess hardcover from the
amount of allowed hardcover in the next zone away from the lake. It has been used in hardcover
variances. Adding it to the Code would allow it to be used in all situations. It would also
encourage removal of non - conforming hardcover.
The Planning Commission voted 5 to 0 on consent to recommend approval.
White stated in his view the ordinance is well drafted and that he is not aware of anything else
that should be included.
Murphy stated it was not clear to him regarding the rationale for paying for the removal of
hardcover. It was his understanding that the City could request the removal of the hardcover as
part of the application process.
Mattick stated technically the City can still do that, but that there was a change in the law
approximately two years. As a condition in an application, the City can require the removal of
nonconforming hardcover, but the City would be required to pay for the hardcover. In
applications requesting variances for homes with structures located within the 0 -75 foot zone, the •
City can require the removal of those illegal nonconformities and can also require the removal of
the legal nonconformities but that the City would need to pay for the legal nonconformities.
Mattick stated Staff did not feel the City would want to pay for those items and so left that
language out of the draft ordinance.
Bremer asked whether there was ever a situation where a narrower driveway was required.
Gaffron stated to his recollection eight feet was the narrowest.
Curtis stated it was eight feet with an apron.
Turner noted the minimum driveway apron widths are 9 feet for one stall, 16 feet for two stalls,
and 28 feet for three stalls. A single stall garage door is 9 feet wide. Staff feels the driveway
width at the garage should be the width of the garage door.
Franchot asked why a driveway serving a side - loading garage has different turn around depth.
Turner stated it has to do with the backing out of a side - loading garage, which requires that the
vehicle make a 90- degree turn, which is why the apron depth was changed.
McMillan asked whether the Council should encourage side - loading garages.
Gaffron stated that standard is in effect to accommodate property owners of narrow properties
and that Staff felt it was important to have a minimum standard. •
Turner stated it also depends on the length of the driveway.
PAGE 2
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
• 7:00 o'clock p.m.
(3. #08 -3361 CITY OF ORONO, CODE AMENDMENT FOR HARDCOVER
REGULATIONS, Continued)
Bremer asked if the ordinance merely codifies what has been in practice for the past few years
Turner indicated it does.
McMillan noted Section E states that nonconforming hardcover may not be relocated or expanded
in any way unless the property is brought into conformance. McMillan asked whether the
hardcover could be credited to a different zone.
Turner stated if the property owner has 30 percent in the 75 -250 but the work is being
commenced in the next zone back, they would have to comply with the hardcover regulations for
that particular zone. If the work is being done in the same zone where there is 30 percent
hardcover existing, they have to bring the hardcover into compliance.
Gaffron stated Staff did not administratively have the authority to approve hardcover exchanges
when hardcover exceeds allowed levels and that the ordinance codifies what has been a policy for
the past few years.
Turner stated the ordinance would cover properties when they could do the work without a .
variance. Number two states that if they are at 80 percent hardcover in the 75 -250 foot zone, they
• can add a second story without a variance provided they meet all the setback requirements.
McMillan stated page three, as it relates to driveway easements under 3B, reads that the portion
of the driveway that serves only the secondary property is not considered hardcover for either the
primary or secondary property. McMillan asked what the rationale is for that provision:
Gaffron stated this issue comes into play when two properties would like to share a driveway but
the driveway is located primarily on one property and deals with how the hardcover would be
calculated. Gaffron cited several examples.
•
McMillan stated the Council can review that provision at the next meeting rather than delay the
meeting any further.
Franchot commented it seems odd that the secondary property does not get any credit for the
portion of the driveway on their property.
Turner stated the portion of the driveway located on the first property serving the second property
would not be counted on the second property.
Curtis illustrated an example of a shared driveway on the overhead and explained how the
hardcover would be allocated to each property.
Gaffron pointed out the language would need to increase the lot area in the calculation by the area
of the hardcover.
PAGE 3
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(3. #08 -3361 CITY OF ORONO, CODE AMENDMENT FOR HARDCOVER
REGULATIONS, Continued)
Franchot stated he does not have a problem with the primary property but questioned why the
portion of the driveway serving the secondary property would not be credited to the secondary
property.
Gaffron indicated Staff will look at revising that language.
Franchot asked what the objective of the City is for having hardcover standards.
Gaffron indicated the hardcover limits are designed to help allow better absorption of water into.
the ground. The more hardcover on a lot, the less absorption there is. The City has primarily
used the hardcover limits for that purpose. The hardcover limits also help manage the size and
scale of projects as the properties redevelop.
Franchot noted very little guidance is given in the ordinance as it relates to technological changes,
such as pervious pavers. Franchot stated if the City does use the hardcover limits to limit the
scope and size of redevelopment projects, in his opinion it would be better to require that more
directly.
•
Bremer stated the pervious pavers are very beautiful looking when first installed but that if they
are not properly maintained, they become just like regular asphalt, which is why the City still
counts them as hardcover. 0
Mattick stated the initial goal of the ordinance was to codify the practices of the Staff.
McMillan stated she attended a workshop on Saturday where they spoke about Orono's natural
research planning and that back in the 1970s there was a study done on phosphate and stormwater
runoff in the area lakes. The City of Orono took that information into consideration when they
developed their hardcover regulations, which were designed to help control the runoff into the
lakes and improve the absorption.
Franchot stated he understands how the regulations came about.
Murphy noted he installed a patio last year constructed with three to four inch natural stones and
that the water does get absorbed if they are properly installed. Murphy noted there is more to
installing pervious pavers than just laying them on the ground and that they do need to be
maintained.
The City Council directed Staff to incorporate the discussed revisions to the draft ordinance.
4. #08 -3378 MICHAEL AND JULIE WHITTINGTON ,1981 FAGERENESS POINT
ROAD — VARIANCE
Michael Whittington, Applicant, was present.
Turner stated the applicants are proposing to construct a replacement resident and are requesting a is
hardcover variance to have 37.56 percent hardcover in the 75 to 250 foot zone when the
PAGE 4
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
• 7:00 o'clock p.m.
(4. #08 -3378 MICHAEL AND JULIE WHITTINGTON,1981 FAGERENESS POINT
ROAD, Continued)
maximum allowed is 25 percent. In addition, they are also requesting a variance to allow a
swimming pool and pergola lakeward of the average lakeshore setback.
The Planning Commission voted 6 to 0 and recommended approval of a hardcover variance to
allow 30.01 percent hardcover in the 75 -250 foot zone and denial of the average lakeshore
setback variance for the swimming pool and pergola.
Turner noted the recommended hardcover number did not include the retaining walls for the
driveway and front entry. The additional hardcover changes Staff's recommendation to 31.97
percent hardcover and that the City Council should consider the numbers contained in the revised
table. Staff feels the property does have issues and that some additional amount of hardcover is
necessary.
Murphy noted that the real issue is the swimming pool and pergola.
Whittington indicated they are willing to remove the swimming pool, which would reduce the
hardcover. Whittington stated in order to allow for maintenance of the driveway and easier
access to the house, they would like a 12 foot wide driveway rather than the recommended 10
foot wide one. This would add approximately 70 square feet of hardcover. Whittington
• requested they be allowed a deck on the front part of the house and a patio on the back side of the
house, which would amount to 460 square feet of hardcover. Whittington noted they are at 43.6
percent hardcover currently and that their proposal reduces the amount of hardcover to 31.97
percent. They are also correcting a number of nonconformities with this project. The house is
not extravagant and does not have a full second story. Whittington stated given the topography of
the lot, the building sites are limited and that this spot is the best location for the house.
White asked whether Mr. Whittington has just purchased the property.
Whittington indicated he purchased the property in 2002.
Whittington stated the pergola extends into the average lakeshore setback but merely consists of
two posts. The pergola is designed to provide some shade rather than them planting some trees,
which would truly block the neighbors' views.
Franchot asked whether the neighbors are supportive of the project.
Whittington indicated the neighbors are very supportive.
Franchot asked whether the house is located right on the average setback line.
Whittington indicated they do have approximately six to eight feet.
Turner illustrated on the overhead the location of the pergola in relation to the average lakeshore
• setback line.
McMillan asked how far the pergola would extend out.
PAGE 5
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m. •
(4.. #08 -3378 MICHAEL AND JULIE WHITTINGTON,1981 FAGERENESS POINT
ROAD, Continued)
Whittington stated it is approximately six feet into the setback.
Turner stated the house offsets back five feet, so the pergola would encroach closer to seven feet
into the average lakeshore setback.
Whittington indicated they would be willing to relocate the house but they are unable to do that
due to the topography.
White stated typically applicants will look at eliminating hardcover by reducing the size of the
house or narrowing down the driveway. White stated in his view the applicant will need to
reduce the hardcover further, especially given the recommendation of the Planning Commission.
White concurred that it would be difficult to reduce the driveway in this situation.
Turner commented the property has an unusual shape, which results in the lakeshore having an
irregular shape.
McMillan asked how many square feet the driveway would consist of.
Whittington indicated they would like a 12 -foot width apron up near the garage and that they
have proposed 10 feet for the remainder of the driveway, which consists of approximately 70
square feet. •
McMillan asked what the other additional hardcover consists of.
Whittington stated it consists of a deck in the back and a deck in the front.
Turner stated the deck is located on the Fagerness Point side and consists of approximately 75
feet, and then the patio area on the west side consists of 315 square feet. Turner illustrated the
pool, the pool deck, and the areas of hardcover in the front and back.
Whittington noted the hardcover for the deck and the patio is 390 square feet. The size of the two
structures has been reduced from 420 square feet to 390 square feet.
Murphy asked whether this is the spot where the house has to sit.
Turner stated it is.
Murphy asked whether the driveway has to be at an angle and,what the width of the driveway
should be.
Kellogg asked what the grade of the current driveway is.
Turner indicated the majority of the driveway is at 10 percent but that there are some areas where
it possibly is over that. •
Kellogg noted the City's standard is 10 percent.
PAGE 6
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
• 7:00 o'clock p.m.
(4. #08 -3378 MICHAEL AND JULIE WHITTINGTON, 1981 FAGERENESS POINT
ROAD, Continued)
Murphy stated he has a difficult time with the pergola and that a patio would be better than a
pergola since it does not obstruct the neighbors' views.
Bremer asked what Staff would prefer to see as it relates to hardcover.
Turner stated based on the topography of the lot, Staff feels the proposed location is the best spot
for the residence and that some additional hardcover is required for the driveway. Staff feels the
hardcover should be kept to the 25 percent limit plus the additional hardcover the Council deems
appropriate for the driveway.
Bremer asked if there was one item in particular that Staff is opposed to.
Turner indicated there is not.
Bremer noted this application has changed since the review by the Planning Commission and
asked whether the Planning Commission should review it again.
Turner stated in her opinion it is not necessary for the Planning Commission to review it again.
• Bremer commented it is not the City Council's job to redesign the house and that she would be
okay with the hardcover as proposed at 31.9 percent but that the issue is the pergola. Bremer
noted this is a wide lot and that his neighbor has a 100 -foot lot but was not given any additional
hardcover than what he was allowed even though he had similar topography issues. Bremer
stated she would be in favor of allowing the 12 -foot driveway.
Whittington pointed out that a number of his neighbors have hardcover in excess of 31 percent,
with one property owner on Shadywood being granted 38.6 percent, which was just approved
three years ago. Whittington indicated he could provide other examples if the Council would
like. Whittington indicated he is unsure how the house could be reduced.
White recommended the applicant look at possible ways to reduce the size of the house as well as
ways to make the house more energy efficient.
Franchot stated it comes down to reasonable use of the lot, and that by removing the pool and the
neighbors being supportive of the plan, in his view it is a very reasonable house and that the
pergola is not egregious. Franchot indicated he would support the house plan as proposed and
would also be supportive of the driveway being either 1.0 feet or 12 feet.
Whittington noted the current house consists of 4,300 finished square feet and that the proposed
house is at 3,100 square feet. The hardcover is also being reduced by approximately 20 percent
from what currently exists.
Turner displayed a picture of the proposed residence.
• White asked what the height of this residence is as compared to the neighbor's.
PAGE 7
MINUTES OF TBE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m. •
(4. #08 -3378 MICHAEL AND JULIE WHITTINGTON, 1981 FAGERENESS POINT
ROAD, Continued)
Whittington stated the basement level has 10 -foot ceilings, the main level has 9 -foot ceilings, and
the second story has 8 -foot ceilings. The height of the proposed house basically *matches the
height of the neighbors' houses.
White stated it would be useful to the Council on future applications if Staff could show how the
proposed house compares to the two neighboring homes.
Turner stated this house is the same height as the other homes in the area.
McMillan stated due to the hardship of the driveway and the need for -the retaining walls due to
the topography, she would be in support of adding an extra 70 feet to the hardcover allowance to
the driveway, which would raise the amount of extra hardcover to 923 square feet. McMillan
stated the applicant could then determine the size of the patio as long as it fits within that
limitation. McMillan indicated she is not in favor of encroaching on the average lakeshore
setback.
McMillan moved, Bremer seconded, to direct Staff to draft a resolution approving
Application #08 -3378, Michael and Julie Whittington, 1981Fagerness Point Road, granting
of a hardcover variance to allow 923 square feet of hardcover in addition to the 25 percent
allowed, and to deny the average lakeshore setback variance for the pergola and swimming •
pool.
Murphy asked why the application has been delayed for the last six months.
- Whittington indicated they pulled their application based on the state of the economy.
Murphy noted a number of major changes have occurred since this application was before the
Planning Commission, such as the removal of the pool. One of the issues he has with the
application is not having formal buildings plans depicting the deck in the front and the patio but
that he is basically in agreement with Council Member McMillan on the extra hardcover and the
pergola.
Whittington commented the items on his neighbors' patios obstruct his view and that one option
is to have a temporary pergola that is not attached. Whittington noted they have a small parking
area located across the street that is paved and asked whether they could trade that hardcover for
additional patio area.
White asked whether that is already included in the calculation.
Turner indicated it is not since it is located on a separate zone.
McMillan stated if the applicant would like to table his application to think about his options, she
would be willing to withdraw her motion.
•
PAGE 8
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(4. #08 -3378 MICHAEL AND JULIE WHITTINGTON, 1981 FAGERENESS POINT
ROAD, Continued)
Bremer stated the applicant also has the option to go before the Planning Commission again to
see if they can be convinced to allow the pergola since the City Council deferred to the
recommendation of the Planning Commission on that item.
White stated if the motion passes, the applicant would need to revise some portions of his plan
slightly.
Whittington stated the only points he would raise would be trading the hardcover on the other lot
to allow for a larger patio and bringing other comparable properties and their hardcover levels
before the Council.
Murphy stated the Council makes their decisions based on the uniqueness of each property and
that he would not recommend discussing individual properties and the amount of hardcover
allowed. Murphy stated he is willing to vote in favor of the motion but that he is not in favor of
the pergola. Murphy noted construction on the project would likely be delayed a number of
months if the applicant would like to table his application and go back before the Planning
Commission.
Franchot asked whether the applicant has an option to the pergola.
Whittington stated lie has not really explored that and that if he plants trees in that area, it would
block his neighbors' views even more.
Franchot stated the Council is agreeable to allowing the driveway at 12 feet but not the pergola.
McMillan commented Mr. Whittington also has the option to construct a portion of the pergola.
The recorder read back the motion for the Council.
Turner noted that Staff would need to draft an approval resolution, which would contain the exact
hardcover numbers.
VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
Franchot asked if the motion would require the reduction in the patio and whether the paved
parking area could be traded.
Turner stated if the parking pad were located on this property, it would have been included in the
hardcover calculation, but given its location, it is considered to be in a separate zone and is not
included. Turner stated the applicant has the option of reducing the hardcover elsewhere rather
than on the patio.
Franchot requested the applicant bring back specific numbers on how much deck was removed
• from what was proposed.
PAGE 9
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m. •
*5. #09 -3399 DEAN TRONGARD,1240 GARDEN COURT NORTH — VARIANCE —
RESOLUTION NO. 5831
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 5831, a Resolution
Granting a Variance to City Code Section 78 -1435, Dean Trongard,1240 Garden Court
North. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
MAYOR/COUNCIL REPORT
McMillan commented the Long Lake Pancake Breakfast was very enjoyable.
White noted yesterday's Star Tribune had a story on local golf courses, which also included
information on Orono's golf course.
White recommended the police and fire rescue vehicles be equipped with air masks in light of the
possible flu pandemic.
Bremer noted she has spoken with an official from the Health Department and that they feel the
incidence of swine flu has been blown out of proportion by the media.
CITY ENGINEER'S REPORT
Bremer asked when the work would start on Dunwoody.
Kellogg noted he did receive a letter from the City Attorney who indicated that the contracts are
not in order yet.
Bremer noted some patching work has been in progress on Dunwoody for the past couple of
weeks.
Kellogg stated it is his understanding that the construction work will begin first on Casco Point
Road and that they are performing some temporary patch work on Dunwoody.
CITY ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT
6. PURCHASE OF 16- JON BOAT
Franchot asked if the maximum horse power of the motor is 40 or 50.
Police Chief Farniok stated they are planning to purchase a 2003, which has a maximum horse
power rating of 50 horse.
Franchot asked why they would purchase a 2 stroke rather than a 4 stroke given the potential
pollution issues with the 2 stroke. •
PAGE 10
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
• 7:00 o'clock p.m.
•
(6. PURCHASE OF 16- JON BOAT, Continued)
Farniok stated he took the recommendation of the manufacturer and other people who are familiar
with the boat.
Franchot moved, McMillan seconded, to approve the purchase of a 2003 Alumacraft MN
1650AW Jon boat with a 2009 Yamaha 50 hp, electric start, 2 stroke with tilt and trim and
2009 Shorelander 1400 lbs bunk trailer from Halberg Marine in Wyoming, Minnesota, for
$7280.00, plus tax and licensing, and to adjust the budget of the equipment improvement
outlay fund to reflect this purchase. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
*7. DISPOSAL OF POLICE DEPARTMENT SQUAD CAR
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to approve the sale of a 2006 Ford Crown Victoria VIN
#2FAWP71W27X133984, with a minimum bid of $5000.00 through a sealed bid process. If
the minimum bid is not reached, vehicles will be auctioned through Minneapolis Auto
Auction. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
8. AMEND ORONO CITY CODE CONCERNING PARADES AND SPECIAL
EVENT PERMITS — ORDINANCE NO. 57, THIRD SERIES
Murphy moved, Bremer seconded, to adopt ORDINANCE NO. 57, Third Series Amending
.Orono City Code Concerning Parades and Special Events. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
9. AMEND ORONO CITY CODE CONCERNING PEDDLERS AND SOLICITORS
— ORDINANCE NO. 58, THIRD SERIES
Mattick noted this is one of the more legally challenged ordinances and that some of the language
may appear cumbersome but it is necessary in the event of constitutional challenges. Mattick
noted this is similar to the ordinance adopted by Wayzata.
Bremer asked why Section 30 -3, Sub c, distinguishes between teenagers 17 and younger and 18
year olds since it is likely they are both in high school.
Mattick stated that is the intent of the language and that age 18 appears to be the age of the teens
that are doing the magazine sales, which is the reason for the language.
Bremer moved, McMillan seconded, to adopt ORDINANCE NO. 58, Third Series, an
Ordinance Amending Chapter 30 of the Orono City Code Concerning Peddlers and
Solicitors. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
*10. PAYMENT TO LONG LAKE FOR FIRE EQUIPMENT
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to approve the payment of the City's share of the
Holmatro rescue tools in the amount of $7,152.75 and to amend the Improvement and
Equipment Outlay Fund to reflect the expenditure. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
PAGE 11
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m. •
*11. HAZARDOUS BUILDING ACTION AT 3443 CRYSTAL PLACE —
RESOLUTION NO. 5832
White noted he did receive a call from an elderly couple.residing near Saga Hill and that the City
should be looking into other hazardous buildings throughout the City.
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 5832, a Resolution
Ordering Abatement of Hazardous Building Located at 3443 Crystal Place. VOTE: Ayes
5, Nays 0.
CITY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
12. DISCUSSION REGARDING BIG ISLAND REGULATIONS
Mattick stated he requested this item be put on the agenda due to the ordinance that Staff was
asked to draft and that he would like some direction from the Council to ensure that the ordinance
reflects what the City would like to achieve for overall use of Big Island. Mattick noted the park
on Big Island would not be used for camping and fires and that he had some questions on how
large groups visiting the island would be handled. Mattick requested the Council provide some
direction for large groups using the island from a commercial standpoint through tour boats, such
as the Minnehaha. Mattick noted there appears to be an expressed desire to allow the Minnehaha
out to the island, but questioned whether the Council would -like to allow other commercial •
recreational boats to dock on the island.
Gabrial Jabbour asked if the City Attorney has reviewed the- Big Island Conservation Easement.
Mattick stated he just received the information.
Jabbour stated there are three guiding issues that need to be addressed. One, the contractual
agreement with the Minnehaha; two, the city's philosophy concerning the use of recreational
areas; and three, the use of the land. Jabbour noted that the City's traditional practice has been to
spend very little on its parks and to leave them more passive. The Big Island Committee has had
a number of discussions about how they can be inclusive but yet limit the impact to the island.
Jabbour pointed out the conservation easement pretty much limits what use the island can be put
to and noted that alcohol is not allowed, the island is not to be used for profit, and that the use
would be passive, which is similar to other City parks. A
Jabbour distributed a picture from 1999 to the Council depicting the number of boats that this
area has experienced in the past. Jabbour noted in the areas where there is no buckthorn, there has
been considerable dumping, so the buckthorn has been left as a natural fence.
Jabbour expressed some frustration with the limited progress being made by the Big Island
Committee and the amount of vandalism that has been experienced to the bathroom facility on the
island. Jabbour noted the committee had originally recommended a boat with a bathroom be
made available for the island, which he was willing to provide to the City, but that they later •
changed their recommendation to only allow for five gallon buckets with sawdust due to the
PAGE 12
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
• 7:00 o'clock p.m.
(I2. DISCUSSIONREGARDING BIG ISLAND REGULATIONS, Continued)
vandalism.` °Jabbour expressed concern that providing that type of bathroom facility could
potentially generate some unintended consequences, such as bad publicity for the City.
Mattick stated it is not his intention to change anything that the committee has recommended but
merely to get some clarification from the Council on what they envision both long -term and
short-term for Big Island. Mattick indicated he is aware of the substantial amount of vandalism,
especially as it relates to the bathroom facilities, and that there is an issue from the City's
standpoint that when there are a large number of people visiting the island at a single time, there
may be the necessity to have five gallon buckets with sawdust if other options are not feasible
given the vandalism problem.
Murphy stated his comments are coming from his role with the Minnehaha and not as a council
member. Murphy noted he and Jabbour serve on the Lake Minnetonka Museum Board. In the
beginning of this project, there was the issue of how the public would have access to the island,
which evolved into having the Minnehaha make runs out to the island. Due to the other issues
that arose along the way, a plan has been compiled to assemble natural environmental tours
across the island. During the planning process for the tours and setting of the Minnehaha
schedule, it was felt that people could be dropped off at Big Island at approximately 10:15 a.m.
on a Saturday morning, the boat would then continue on to Wayzata, and then the boat would
return and pick people up from Big Island at approximately 2:15 p.m. Murphy indicated he is not
• aware of another way to set up the boat schedule.
Murphy stated that schedule resulted in the issue of people arriving back to the dock in time for
the boat and also for the need of some type of restroom facilities to be available to the public
since the people visiting the island would be there for three or four hours. One option discussed
was that it could be made very clear that any visitors to the island off of the Minnehaha would
need to use the bathroom prior to going on the island or wait until they reboard the boat. Murphy
noted the committee spent a considerable amount of time at their last meeting discussing this
issue and other potential issues. Murphy stated the restroom issue is still unresolved as well as
liability issues the City could potentially face with allowing visitors on the island.
White stated the problem is basically with the people aboard the Minnehaha and that in his view
the people will simply need to be informed of the situation.
Franchot commented that he has repeatedly heard the concern raised regarding the lack of adult
supervision with these various groups. Franchot asked if they were still going with the tour
guide.
Murphy noted that Gabriel Jabbour has withdrawn his offer of serving as a tour guide but that he
has had other discussions with other people about performing that duty. Murphy noted they are
on a time deadline to get these issues resolved since the materials have already been published.
Franchot stated based on his attendance at two of the committee meetings, it was his
understanding the majority of the issues had been addressed and that it was his understanding a
• decision had been made to have a boat with a bathroom available for the groups and to have a
person on the island during heavy usage times to provide supervision. Franchot stated based on
PAGE 13
AHNUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(12. DISCUSSION REGARDING BIG ISLAND REGULATIONS, Continued)
tonight's discussion, it appears the main issues relate to the larger groups visiting the island off of
the Minnehaha and not having bathroom facilities.
McMillan noted there are safety lanes for the boats now.
Jabbour commented he had thought it would be a good idea to have a person on shore to help
guide the people over the island and to make sure that they make it back to the boat on time.
They also discussed the option of leaving a smaller boat out there to transport anyone who might
miss the Minnehaha. Jabbour indicated another issue is the safety of the people visiting the island
and that in the event of a storm, people will need to be transported back. Jabbour noted one
person did die in the harbor during a storm. Another option for limiting the number of people
visiting the island would be to have the Minnehaha limit the number of tickets it sells.
Franchot indicated he does not agree with all of the concerns raised by Jabbour but that he does
understand the concerns relating to safety of the larger groups visiting the island.
Jabbour stated his concerns relate to his past experiences.
Franchot asked what Jabbour would recommend the Council consider for the island.
Jabbour stated Big Island is an inhabited oasis and that unfortunately people visiting the island •
could become obtrusive. Jabbour stated in his view all cruise boats should be allowed to visit the
island if they are acting as a ferry but not all large groups should be allowed on the island for an
extended period of time if they are on a recreational outing as part of a company event. Jabbour
stated he would like to see shorter visits to the island.
Murphy stated he sent a long memorandum to the committee after they met outlining the issues
and his concerns and that the City needs to determine what its long term vision is for Big Island.
Murphy stated he is not sure of a way to shorten the time period that a group would be on the
island. Murphy stated unfortunately the committee is forced to speculate what could possibly
happen and that they may not know how things will go until they start having people on the
island.
McMillan stated there needs to be contingency plans for the people on the island.
Murphy stated they have instituted a safety plan in the event someone goes overboard, if the boat
stops in the middle of the lake and other possible emergencies, but that there is always the
possibility something unexpected will happen.
Police Chief Farniok pointed out the groups that would visit Big Island via the Minnehaha are
probably not going to be teenagers and that in his opinion, based on the length of time they would
be on the island, there should be some bathroom facilities available, benches to sit on, and a
contingency plan to get people off the island in the event of an emergency.
Jabbour noted the cruise boats are profit driven and that they charge a certain amount per hour. •
The cruise boats are not interested in parking at the island for a number of hours.
PAGE 14
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(12. DISCUSSIONREGARDING BIG ISLAND REGULATIONS, Continued)
Murphy_stated the committee is interested in doing everything they can to ensure the safety and
well -being of the visitors to the island but that given the complexity of the issues, they maybe
should look at not having the Minnehaha drop visitors off on the island. Murphy stated they
could have one or two people on the island that could assist the visitors but that the City will need
to decide whether they want to be in the transportation business or in the tour business. Murphy
stated in his opinion the City should only be in the transportation business. The committee does
not want to put the burden on the City, but if they feel it is worthwhile to allow people to have
that opportunity to visit the island, they need the assistance of the City to find those individuals
who would be willing to help with the groups.
Police Chief Farniok suggested the committee share its plans with the Water Patrol and the police
department to review.
Murphy stated the lack of bathroom facilities is the main issue given the amount of time the
group would be on the island.
Bremer stated without bathroom facilities, it is likely that people will relieve themselves in the
woods and leave debris behind that will need to be picked up.
White noted that currently there is not a taxi service available for people stranded on the lake.
• Jabbour stated to his understanding most boats that are sold nowadays have a port-a -potty and
that he had thought a good option would be to purchase a boat with a bathroom and have
someone monitor it. Since the purchase of the island park, $1.4 million has been spent, with the
City spending approximately $110,000. The majority of the money spent by the City has been to
purchase the two docks. Jabbour noted that 50 barges of garbage were taken off the island during
the cleanup efforts.
McMillan stated the City does need to look at the long -term costs associated with having people
visit the island.
Jabbour stated the goal is to provide visitors to the island a safe and pleasurable trip
Franchot asked whether there was any discussion concerning these issues before the park was
purchased.
White stated the Council felt the purchase was an exceptional deal and that they would work out
the issues as they came up.
McMillan stated the guiding principle for the committee has been to limit the impact to the island
and that one of the main issues surrounds the level of activity on the island.
Jabbour noted they have a contractual obligation with the Watershed District to create a safety
and management plan for the island. Jabbour indicated he has spent almost every day over the
• past few months working with a representative from the Watershed District in developing a plan.
PAGE 15
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
- Monday, April 27, 2009
7:00 o'clock p.m.
(12. DISCUSSIONREGARDING BIG ISLAND REGULATIONS, Continued)
Murphy stated following the letter he sent to the Council and Staff, Gaffron had recommended
the application be resubmitted. Murphy stated the committee will articulate in the application
their plans for the island and the visitors. If the City does not feel it is safe enough to allow large
groups on the island, the committee would accept that decision.
Mattick noted Gaffron has prepared an ordinance for his review and asked whether the Council
would like him to go ahead and finalize it for council's preliminary review.
It was the consensus of the City Council to direct the City Attorney to prepare a preliminary
ordinance for their review.
Murphy stated in response to the question raised by Franchot, they did not anticipate all of these
issues but that they did know there would be some issues that would need to be worked out.
Murphy stated the unfortunate part is that there will be people who will exploit the island and that
the City will need to maintain the park as a passive use. Murphy stated he does not want it to
appear that the Council is getting in the way of the Minnehaha.
McMillan stated her biggest concern at the time of purchase was the cleanup of the island and
having a limited number of buildings on the island. McMillan stated she understood the
challenges of managing an island park and that in her view if they can take their time and not rush
into anything, the issues will eventually be resolved. •
Gaffron noted either this week or next week the docks will be installed as well as the posts for the
Minnehaha.
Jabbour stated if there will be large boats coming to the island, the side posts need to be installed,
and that the cost this year for installation would be $1500.
Franchot asked if they need the posts.
Gaffron stated if they would like to accommodate cruise boats this year, they will-need the
additional posts.
McMillan stated in her opinion they are not ready to allow large cruise boats on the island.
Gaffron stated the committee had planned on meeting with the cruise boat operators to give them
a presentation on what to expect as well as the City's vision for the island, which has not yet been
scheduled.
Franchot commented that it is unlikely the City would issue very many permits for tour boats this
year.
It was the consensus of the City Council to install the first set of posts for the first dock but to
delay installation of the second set of posts and second dock.
McMillan asked when the dock would be installed.
PAGE 16
•
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
• 7:00 o'clock p.m.
•
(12. DISCUSSIONREGARDING BIG ISLAND REGULATIONS, Continued)
Jabbour indicated it would be installed next week.
Gaffron stated he would schedule a meeting in the next week or two with the cruise boat
operators.
Fire Department Contracts
Mattick reported City Administrator Wells has been reviewing the City's contracts with Long
Lake regarding fire protection. Mattick noted his law firm also represents the City of Long Lake
but that they do not participate in the negotiations or drafting of the contract terms.
Mattick stated there are currently three separate contracts with Long Lake, and that one of the
contracts is a contract for joint ownership of the new fire station. Mattick indicated it is not a true
50150 split at the present time but that it is contemplated there would be a 50150 split by 2020.
Murphy noted when the fire station was initially constructed, Orono agreed with Long Lake that
it would be joint ownership.
Mattick stated there is also a contract to provide services, which spells out a number of
responsibilities and quantifies what each community pays for services. In 2001, there was a two
and a half page addendum to the contract for ownership, which outlined some new expenses, but
it also addressed Long Lake providing 350 sewer units. Mattick stated while it seems odd to have
that provision in a fire services contract, it appears there was some reconfiguring done with
respect to sewer lines and at that time there was some contemplation for additional sewer
capacity. Generally in the City's past negotiations with Long Lake, the various agreements have
always been separately negotiated agreements, and that this contract could start to blend some of
the various topics.
Mattick noted there was also an agreement that was circulated at the end of 2006 relating to the
Navarre Fire Station. What had been negotiated was basically a clarification that the Navarre Fire
Station would be jointly owned and run by Long Lake and Orono as if it had been included in the
2001 contract. It is his understanding that that agreement has not been signed.
White stated the history provided by the City Attorney is similar to his recollection but that he did
not remember the exact number of sewer units.
Murphy stated the joint ownership of the Navarre Fire Station was only a portion of the
agreement that the City had with Long Lake regarding fire protection services. At the time the
agreement was drawn up, the Council reviewed it and sent it over to Long Lake, who did not act
on the agreement. Murphy commented he is unsure what Long Lake would like to do about the
agreement but suggested the Orono City Council consider simply acquiescing to Long Lake on
their decision.
PAGE 17
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, April 27, 2009
7.00 o'clock p.m.
*13. LICENSES AND PERMITS
Garbage Hauler
1. Vintage Waste Systems, Inc.
P.O. Box 477
Mound, MN 55364
Residential Kennel Licenses
2. Melinda Schneider
2170 Prospect Avenue
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to approve the above listed licenses. VOTE: Ayes 5,
Nays 0.
*14. BILLS
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to approve payment of the All Funds Account. VOTE:
Ayes 5, Nays 0.
ADJOURNMENT
Bremer moved, Murphy seconded, to adjourn the Orono City Council meeting at 10:02
p.m. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
ATTEST:
.Linda S. Vee, City Clerk Ja es M. White, Mayor
PAGE 18
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