Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/15/2004 Planning Commission Minutes PUBLIC ATTENDANCE MEETING DATE I 1 - I S - 0_C1rIi ❑ COUNCIL C PLANNING COMMISSION PLEASE FILL OUT THE INFORMATION REQUESTED ❑ PARK COMMISSION BELOW FOR OUR CITY RECORDS. ❑ OTHER PRESENT FOR(from agenda) NAME (please print) ADDRESS NAME OR NUMBER 1. eirur•i.:h 'L/6/-1.4,/ O _3 C ,5 • 2. Otdv 4L 4 u-i:„- ,, .£.- 3/61) 1 -k Q y-- .5616y _ 3o .-,-,-.--P ,,k, 43 ' 4. ) ,� %� �- -t'i`- roc �� 5. v�,vt 0>71 L��-y11�? �r- � Z/ - 7 'AA t' o 6. pk�.��`� K�'►��,n a �-C cam°-. 3c.�to .i c�� try 1 30f4 e.,L.._ 7. T3 L.,/8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. . . . 14. 15. W:\Administrntive Support\(Fornts)U'ublic Attendance.wpd MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. ROLL The Orono Planning Commission met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Chair David Rahn, Commissioners J.Marc Fritzler, Jim Leslie,Ralph Kempf, Roland Jurgens, Cynthia Bremer, and Travis Winkey. Representing Staff were Planning Director Mike Gaffron,Planners Melanie Curtis and Janice Gundlach, and Recorder Jackie Young. Chair Rahn called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. CONSENT Item No. 1 was removed from the Consent Agenda. 1. #04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS,LLC, 2665 MAPLERIDGE LANE— VARIANCE,6:01 p.m.—6:02 p.m. The applicants were not present. Rahn asked for public comments. There were no public comments concerning this application. Due to the absence of the applicants,this item was held open and follows Items#2 and#6. OLD BUSINESS 2. #04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM,2618 CASCO POINT ROAD—VARIANCES, 6:02—6:20 p.m. Eric Vogstrom, Applicant was present. Curtis noted this application was recommended for denial at the October Planning Commission meeting.Since that time the applicant has proposed reductions and this matter has been referred back to the Planning Commission by the City Council. The revised plan consists of a hardcover variance within the 75'-250' zone of 36.8 percent hardcover and an average lakeshore setback to encroach 5' nearer the lake than the property to the south. Curtis stated the applicant has submitted a tree and vegetation restoration plan for the property,with Staff currently reviewing that plan. Staff recommends approval of the average lakeshore setback variance, and PAGE 1 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM, CONTINUED) should the Planning Commission find that there is a hardship for this lot inherent to the land, an appropriate level of hardcover should be determined. Vogstrom stated he did calculate the amount of hardcover on the right-of-way,which is being used currently for access. Vogstrom noted there is no driveway currently on the property. Presently there is 2652 square feet of hardcover within the right-of-way,bringing the total existing hardcover on just the lot to 2080 square feet and combined it would be 4,732 square feet. Vogstrom indicated he is requesting a hardcover variance to allow 2,824 square feet,which is a reduction of approximately 1900 square feet. Rahn inquired whether the applicant intends to use the right-of-way for access. Vogstrom stated he does not. Rahn asked for public comments. There were no public comments regarding this application. Rahn stated he has reviewed what has been discussed at the past meetings,noting that the middle third of this lot consists of a lake. Rahn stated in his opinion it is a hardship lot and it should be granted some variance at a level determined by the Planning Commission. Rahn stated in a typical lakeshore scenario, if the 4,100 square feet was dry land,the application that has been submitted would be within the 25 percent. Rahn noted two-thirds of this lot lies within the 0-75' area. Rahn inquired whether the lot is undersized and whether a lot area variance is also required. Curtis stated the lot is 80 feet wide, with the area of the lot meeting 80 percent of the requirement. Rahn stated he would not be opposed to 35 percent hardcover on this lot. Bremer stated she feels the reductions being proposed are good and that the present plan is a much more reasonable plan. Bremer indicated she likes the proposal to shift the new house from the side lot because it reduces the number of variances required. Bremer stated she does not have a problem with the average lakeshore setback variance given the location of the property. Bremer stated given the size of the driveway that is required and the available footprint,hardcover of 2,824 square feet is probably below what would normally be requested and is in line with the rest of the neighborhood. Bremer stated in her opinion it is a hardship lot and she would be open for suggestions concerning the amount of hardcover. Bremer inquired whether any Commissioners had any ideas for where the hardcover could be reduced further. PAGE 2 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM, CONTINUED) Fritzler stated he would prefer the hardcover be reduced even further. Fritzler stated in his opinion the property owner has not done enough to try to build within the restrictions and that he would like to see the hardcover at 25 percent. Fritzler indicated he does not want to see the hardcover increase in the next few years from what is approved tonight. Leslie commented that consideration should be given to the fact that the proposed hardcover calculation now includes a driveway where the old hardcover number does not include a driveway. Leslie noted there is a three-car garage and inquired whether the garage could be reduced to a two-stall garage in an effort to reduce the size of the driveway and the amount of hardcover being proposed. Leslie indicated he does not feel a three-car garage is essential. Winkey inquired what the square footage is of the proposed driveway. Curtis stated it is 690 square feet. Winkey noted if a driveway similar to the current driveway is constructed,the hardcover would be approximately 2,600, 2,700 square feet. Vogstrom stated he does own three cars and would like to build a home that is marketable in today's world. Vogstrom stated a three-car garage is standard nowadays. Vogstrom noted the floor plan is less than 1100 square feet and that in his opinion he is not able to reduce the hardcover any further. Vogstrom indicated he does not plan to increase the hardcover in the future since he has accounted for a deck and other items in the current design. Jeff Essen, 2648 Casco Point Road,noted he was present at the first Planning Commission meeting where he expressed some concerns regarding drainage and off-street parking. Essen stated the street is rather narrow and the traffic goes through that area quite fast. Essen indicated he would not be opposed to granting some additional hardcover to accommodate parking on the lot rather than the street. Paul Kaster, 2600 Casco Point Road, stated the existing driveway exists totally in the fire lane, and questioned why the Planning Commission would take that piece of property and grant it as hardcover to the lot. Kaster stated the portion of the driveway that is located in the fire lane is a large section. Kaster stated that is not part of the property and should not be included in the area used to determine the appropriate hardcover. Rahn noted there is a large amount of hardcover in the fire lane,but indicated to his understanding the Planning Commission is not swapping that same square footage and allowing it on this property. Kaster inquired how much of the hardcover in the fire lane is being granted to the lot. Bremer indicated zero. PAGE 3 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM, CONTINUED) Kempf stated the applicant has indicated the proposed hardcover does include hardcover for a driveway that would now be located on the lot rather than in the fire lane,which results in a reduction in the amount of total hardcover for this lot. Kempf stated the hardcover that is currently in the fire lane would not factor into what will be built on this lot. Rahn noted the hardcover that currently exists on this lot does not include a driveway. Kempf stated what happens in the fire lane does not factor into the amount of hardcover for this lot. Winkey indicated the applicant currently has a property that does not include a driveway in the amount of hardcover on the lot. Winkey stated the amount of hardcover being proposed by the applicant is similar to the amount that would be required if a driveway had been located on the property originally. Winkey stated realistically a driveway is required and the applicant should be granted some hardcover to accommodate that, which comes out to approximately 35 percent. Vogstrom stated overall the existing hardcover and future hardcover would be 1900 square feet less with the new proposal. Leslie stated the 690 square feet for the driveway is now presumed to be part of the lot and that the hardcover in the fire lane is not being added to the amount that would be allowed. Jurgens inquired what 690 plus the existing hardcover number comes out to. Vogstrom stated it would be 36.1 percent hardcover. Rahn stated due to the configuration of the lot and the two 0-75' zones, it only leaves 7,600 square feet in the 75-250' zone. Rahn stated the zones established by the City do not always work on lots similar to this property and that if the City only required a certain percentage be met, this discussion would probably not be necessary. Rahn noted due to the small amount of buildable land within the 75'-250' zone, the hardcover percentage would be larger than normal. Rahn indicated he does not feel the driveway can be reduced further. Essen inquired whether the hardcover on the right-of-way would be removed. Gaffron stated that issue should be reserved for the City Council and perhaps in conjunction with the Park Commission and the Public Works Department to determine what the function and potential use of the fire lane is and whether the existing hardcover needs to be there to serve some public purpose. Gaffron stated the final decision concerning the driveway in the fire lane should be up to the City Council. Essen indicated he would not be opposed to shifting the house five feet to the north and have a variance granted in order to give more room to deal with the water runoff on the south side of the house. PAGE 4 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM, CONTINUED) Vogstrom stated he also would prefer moving the house five feet to the north to avoid driving over tree roots and to improve the grading situation. Rahn noted Greg Gappa of the Public Works Department has been consulted with and has indicated he did not want the house to encroach on the fire lane. Rahn stated he would prefer not to have to grant that variance. Bremer inquired when this would appear before the City Council. Curtis stated she was planning to have it ready for the next City Council meeting. Rahn suggested the Council discuss the possible encroachment at their meeting since the Public Service Director would be in attendance at that time. Jurgens inquired whether the applicant was planning on having Spancrete in the garage to allow for an area underneath the garage. Vogstrom stated he is not sure how he would be able to access that. Jurgens noted if there were an area underneath the garage, a landing might be preferred. Jurgens indicated he is in favor of hardcover at 35 percent. Jurgens stated he does have concerns about people buying substandard lots and then wanting to construct a new residence on it. Jurgens stated the three-car garage and other features to this house are not a hardship. Jurgens stated he has a concern with the lakeshore setback since the house could be angled a little more and perhaps slightly reduced,which would eliminate the need for the average lakeshore setback. Jurgens commented he understands the house has been placed at an angle to allow for view of the long side of the lake,but that in his opinion the house could be angled slightly to eliminate the need for that variance. Vogstrom indicated he was surprised a variance would be needed given the distance from that point to the neighbors. Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3052,Eric Vogstrom, 2618 Casco Point Road,granting of a hardcover variance of 36.8 percent hardcover in the 75'-250' setback zone, a variance for a five foot encroachment into the average lakeshore setback, and to recommend approval of the tree restoration plan subject to Staff review and City Council approval. Rahn noted he does not see any areas where the hardcover could be reduced further. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 2,Fritzler and Jurgens Opposed. PAGE 5 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM, CONTINUED) Bremer inquired whether Jurgens would have allowed hardcover in excess of 25 percent but less than what was approved. Jurgens stated he would have. 1. #04-3069 G&1 LAND INVESTMENTS,LLC,6:21 p.m.—6:30 p.m. The applicants were not present. Gundlach noted the applicants were aware that this application was on the consent agenda, which is why they probably are not present at this time. Gundlach recommended this application be tabled if the Planning Commission elects to deny the application or to make revisions to the plan. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting an average lakeshore setback variance to permit a proposed pool to encroach 45' into the required average lakeshore setback. Gundlach noted this is a rebuild,with the other proposals meeting the City's requirements. Gundlach indicated the intent of the average lakeshore setback is to preserve the views of adjacent landowners. Staff did visit the property and took several photographs,most importantly from the neighbor's deck that would be the most impacted. Staff has determined due to the orientation of the lot and the shore that there are no negative impacts to the views and is recommending approval of the variance. Rahn called for public comment. There were no public comments concerning this application. Jurgens indicated he did look at it the same way as Staff,but noted that the pool deck itself is proposed at 950',which is approximately two feet above the main level of the house. Jurgens stated he viewed this property from the adjoining neighbor's residence and that in his view this is a larger structure than what it appears to be on a piece of paper. Jurgens stated if no retaining walls were constructed, a large hill would be in that area which would give it the appearance of having too much fill. Jurgens noted the plan shows the pool going from 950' to 940' without any fill or contours being depicted on the plan. Jurgens stated he would like to see some calculations in order to determine whether a conditional use permit is needed for the fill. Gundlach noted this is not a final plan,with the applicants indicating they do not wish the pool to be elevated. Staff has determined the height of the pool would not exceed the height of the current deck. Jurgens inquired whether the elevation of the pool deck is at 943'. Gundlach stated the elevation of the pool deck has not been determined. PAGE 6 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS, CONTINUED) Jurgens suggested that perhaps this application be tabled to allow the applicant time to submit final grading plans. Gundlach pointed out the applicants have not submitted final plans for the house. The applicants have indicated to Staff that the pool would not be any higher than the existing deck. Fritzler stated if this is not the final plan and the pool is not in the exact location it would be built in,he would prefer to table the application. Fritzler indicated he has the same concerns as Jurgens. Bremer inquired whether there could be a stipulation on the maximum elevation of the pool. Gundlach concurred that the height of the pool could be stipulated. Gundlach stated the applicants have not indicated that the location of the pool would change if the plans for the house change. Gundlach indicated the applicants are attempting to achieve a bigger driveway and have not indicated that the location of the pool would change. Leslie stated the concern he has with this application has to do with the likelihood of a fence being constructed around the pool and the extent to which that fence may obstruct the view of neighboring properties. Leslie noted that point has not been addressed in the proposal. Gundlach stated Orono's Code does not require a pool to be fenced in,but noted that some insurance companies do require a fence. Bremer stated the Planning Commission could indicate a non-privacy type fence such as a rod iron fence would be okay. Winkey stated he also would prefer to have a final plan. Jurgens moved,Kempf seconded,to table Application#04-3069, G&L Land Investments, LLC,2665 Mapleridge Lane,to allow the applicant time to submit plans depicting final elevations of the pool and house and the amount of fill that would be required. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. NEW BUSINESS #04-3022 PHILIP AND KAREN SKOOG,280 TONKA AVENUE—VARIANCES,6:31 p.m.— 6:35 p.m. Philip Skoog,Applicant, is present. PAGE 7 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3022 PHILIP AND KAREN SKOOG, CONTINUED) Curtis stated the applicants are requesting renewal of variances granted in 2000 for a rear yard setback in order to construct a dining room addition to the existing home located 46.5' from the rear lot line where 50' is required. Additionally, in the 500'-1000' zone a hardcover variance is required based on new information unless the plastic liner is removed from the landscape beds. Staff recommends approval of the rear yard setback variance if the Planning Commission feels that the substandard lot size is a sufficient hardship. Skoog had nothing to add to staff's report. Rahn called for public comment. There were no public comments concerning this application. Fritzler moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3022,Philip and Karen Skoog,renewal of a rear yard setback variance subject to the removal of the plastic liner from the landscape beds. Skoog indicated he is agreeable to removing the plastic liner and would not replace it in the future. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. 4. #04-3056 DENNIS AND EVELYN BRUCE,3435 LIVINGSTON AVENUE—VARIANCE, 6:37 p.m.—6:52 p.m. Dennis and Evelyn Bruce,Applicants, were present. Mr. Bruce indicated he has arranged for a tree removal company to take down the maple tree next week. Curtis stated the applicants are requesting a variance in order to construct a 20' by 30' detached garage closer to the street than their existing home. The applicants are requesting a lot coverage variance for 1,291 square feet or 19 percent structural coverage in order to exceed the 15 percent lot coverage limit; and, two, a variance to allow an accessory structure to be closer to the street than the principal structure. Curtis the structure is proposed to be 46.1 feet from the lot line, which would be located even or behind the neighboring homes. Staff is recommending approval of the location variance provided the new garage be constructed no closer to the street than the neighboring homes. The Planning Commission should consider whether this size garage with this orientation that masks the principal residence is appropriate for this neighborhood. PAGE 8 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3056 DENNIS AND EVELYN BRUCE, CONTINUED) Curtis noted Staff has proposed an alternate orientation, with the same driveway and sidewalk being utilized. Mrs. Bruce indicated if the 20' by 30' garage is a problem or too large,they would be willing to reduce the size of the garage to 24' by 24'. Mr. Bruce stated if the maple tree is removed,he could locate the garage in that area. Bruce indicated the maple tree is right on the side of the cement pad, and with removal of the tree,the garage can be located further back towards the house. Rahn stated the biggest concern with the garage being constructed setback to setback is the view of the garage,which in his opinion would be somewhat out of character for the neighborhood. Rahn noted the existing overhead door is in the existing gable end, which would not need to be relocated. Rahn stated he would not be opposed to the garage if it is constructed along one of the 10-foot setbacks resulting in a larger side yard area,which would better match with the rest of the neighborhood. Mr. Bruce indicated that was their original plan but then it would not line up with the houses if the maple tree is not removed. Rahn inquired whether the applicants are willing to remove the plastic liner in the 500'-1000' zone. Mr. Bruce indicated he would remove the plastic liner. Rahn called for public comment. Roxann Beisch, 3436 Livingston Avenue, stated this would be the second garage built in the neighborhood in front of the primary structure, and inquired whether there would be windows in the garage. Kempf noted there are two service doors on the west side if the garage door faces the street. Mr. Bruce indicated there is also a service door on the backside of the garage. Rahn stated he does not recall any windows. Rahn inquired what the issue is with the windows. Beisch stated the garage built across the street was made to look like a house from the street and not a garage. Beisch indicated she would prefer this garage does not have the appearance of a garage sticking out and that a window in the garage might help to improve the appearance. Curtis stated the garage doors would face the street with either design. Leslie stated if the windows were incorporated on the side,they would not be visible from the street. PAGE 9 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3056 DENNIS AND EVELYN BRUCE, CONTINUED) Winkey indicated with the garage doors facing the street,it would look like a garage regardless if windows were added. Jurgens inquired whether the garage could be relocated to the east and have the doors facing east. Curtis stated it would add to the hardcover because the driveway would need to be longer. Curtis noted the driveway presently is a shared driveway. Leslie stated the front door currently is visible to the street. Jurgens stated from an appearance standpoint, a wall with windows in it would look less like a garage,but if the hardcover is increased with that layout,then it becomes a moot point. Rahn inquired whether Ms.Beisch was speaking about windows in the front of the structure or along the side. Rahn noted with the double garage doors, there is not much room for any windows. Beisch stated she was speaking about windows on the east side. Rahn stated the Planning Commission probably would not require a window and that it would be up to the applicant on whether to include one. Mr. Bruce indicated he would prefer not to have windows in the garage. Jurgens stated his only concern was the grade because the house to the west has two openings into the basement. Jurgens stated currently the water goes front to back and that he would like to see a grading plan submitted to address that to ensure that water does not go into somebody's basement. Curtis stated the surveyor was asked to provide an upgraded survey to ensure proper drainage would be maintained. Mr. Bruce indicated the grade would only be changed slightly to allow the water to run towards the street. Fritzler suggested adding a gutter on the structure. Leslie moved,Rahn seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3056,Dennis V. and Evelyn N.Bruce,3435 Livingston Avenue, granting of a variance to lot coverage and a variance to allow an accessory structure to be located closer to the street than the principal structure,subject to the length of the garage being oriented north/south rather than east/west and along the west side setback. Jurgens inquired whether the applicant could construct a 24' by 24' garage. PAGE 10 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3056 DENNIS AND EVELYN BRUCE,CONTINUED) Leslie amended his motion,Fritzler seconded,to allow construction of a 24' by 24' garage located north/south rather than east/west along the west side setback. VOTE ON AMENDED MOTION: Ayes: 7,Nays 0. 5. #04-3057 DON HENDERSON, 560 BIG ISLAND—VARIANCE,6:52 p.m.-7:12 p.m. Don Henderson, Applicant, and Michael Palm,Applicant, were present. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting a lot area variance to permit development of a lot 3.33 acres in size, of which 1.1 acres is dry and where 5.0 acres of dry buildable is normally required. This lot has remained vacant since prior to adoption of the current Seasonal Recreation District standards. At the time the Big Island ordinance was adopted,the property owners in ownership of lots less than five acres were given the chance to apply for"record lot status", which the owner of this lot did not do. Henderson has indicated he would like to sell the lot as a buildable lot, and a lot area variance must be granted under the current practices. The septic inspector has visited this site and has approved a primary and alternate septic site for a three-bedroom dwelling. The applicant has also indicated a desire to have a dock,but since it is impossible to access the dock without passing through wetland, the City is unable to determine what, if any, additional City permits would be required due to the moratorium on wetland alterations until a new Wetland Ordinance is adopted. Staff recommends approval of the request with the stipulation that the City Engineer approves a grading plan at the building permit phase and conformance with all hardcover, structural coverage, setback, and septic requirements. Henderson indicated he is aware that some neighbors have expressed concerns regarding this application, but noted that all the requirements of the City have been met. Henderson stated the proposed location of the dock would require access over three or four feet of wetlands. Rahn indicated the Planning Commission cannot act on the dock at this point and would have to wait until the moratorium expires before they are able to consider that issue. Selden Robb, 570 Big Island, stated he would like to see the size of the house restricted somewhat and that he has concerns regarding the preservation of wildlife in this area. Robb stated he would like the brush to remain virtually untouched so that it would be a good buffer between the residence and the wetlands and allow for the preservation of wildlife. PAGE 11 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3057 DON HENDERSON,CONTINUED) Robb noted they have just recently installed a new septic system on their site and inquired where the septic site would be located on the Henderson property. Gundlach illustrated on the overhead the location of the proposed septic site. Robb stated Henderson's septic would be abutting his and requested that appropriate care be taken to insure that the hill does not wash away from too much water entering the area. Rahn pointed out the Planning Commission is only looking at a lot area variance and would expect the applicant to comply with the other requirements of the City relating to septic,hardcover, and setbacks. Robb stated he also has a dock in the area of the wetland and that he does not have a problem with the applicant crossing the three to four feet of wetlands. Ben Faus, 3810 York Avenue South, stated he owns the land to the south. Faus indicated at the time he purchased the property he inquired about the possibility of donating the land to the Nature Conservatory in an effort to help preserve the natural habitat of this area and was informed that the land was not unique enough. Faus indicated subsequent to that time he proposed to construct a substantial cabin and was not given approval. Faus stated the cabin that is there presently is located 58 feet from the shoreline and that he owns approximately eight acres. Faus indicated he would like to see the total island preserved,noting that it is becoming more attractive to people to visit the island. Faus stated the island has a number of bare acres and that it would not be beyond Hennepin County's ability to purchase it for a park, including the wetlands. Faus stated he would like to see some portion of the island preserved as a park. Mike Palm stated they currently own land on Big Island and that they are attempting to preserve the history, character, and wildlife of Big Island. Palm stated they are in favor of preserving Big Island. Rahn called for public comments. There were no public comments concerning this application. Rahn indicated he does not have an issue with the variance. Leslie noted no specific plan has been proposed for this lot. Gundlach stated given the location of the primary and secondary septic sites, as well as the setbacks,the building pad is very clearly defined. Gundlach noted a conditional use permit could be required for the dock. PAGE 12 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3057 DON HENDERSON, CONTINUED) Kempf commented it is a shame when a unique area gets developed,but that he sees no reason to not proceed forward with the application given the rights of the property owner. Fritzler requested the building pad be defined in the resolution. Gundlach noted there is a maximum of three bedrooms given the size of the septic system. Jurgens inquired when the property was purchased. Henderson stated the property was purchased in 1957 and that his intent is to sell the property to the Palms. Kempf moved,Winkey seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3057,Michael Palm and Don Henderson, 560 Big Island,granting of a lot area variance to construct a seasonal cabin on an existing vacant lot,subject to the City Engineer approving a grading plan at the building permit phase and conformance with all hardcover,structural coverage, setback, and septic requirements, with the understanding that the residence will not exceed three bedrooms. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. (Recess taken at 7:13—7:18 p.m.) 6. #04-3060 MICHAEL AND DONNA EBERTZ, 1220 TONKAWA ROAD,AFTER-THE- FACT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, 7:19 p.m.—7:40 p.m. Cindy Kist, Landscape Architect,was present on behalf of the Applicants. Curtis stated the applicants are requesting after-the-fact approval for a conditional use permit in order to construct a boulder wall and re-grade the lake yard. A hardcover variance is also necessary due to the change in the hardcover percentage proposed. The applicants are proposing to increase the hardcover within the 0-75' zone from 7.84 percent to 8.7 percent,which amounts to 292 square feet of hardcover. Curtis noted a history and analysis of the property is outlined in Exhibit L. Staff recommends approval of the application subject to the submittal of a plan showing the elimination of the upper tier of walls to the greatest extent possible, compliance with the City Engineer's recommendations; and any additional conditions or revisions the Planning Commission may wish to add. Ms. Kist stated according to the report, it would not be difficult to revise the grading plan regarding the upper retaining wall. Kist stated she is unsure what is meant regarding the steeper slope contained in the report. Rahn stated the slope appears to be gradual in that area and that he would not be receptive to the upper tiers. Rahn stated it also appears that one course of the lower retaining wall could also be removed. Rahn PAGE 13 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3060 MICHAEL AND DONNA EBERTZ,CONTINUED) stated in his opinion the slope could be maintained without a wall. Rahn noted according to the history of the property, a similar project was earlier denied. Leslie inquired whether that would mean everything above the rip-rap. Rahn noted there is rip-rap and then a couple courses of wall that would remain. Rahn noted the upper tiers have been removed already. Rahn stated he would prefer the lower wall at a 3 to 1 slope to make the area appear more symmetrical. Rahn inquired whether it is Staff's intent to recommend the upper tier not be constructed. Curtis indicated that it is. Gaffron stated in his view the lower wall may need to be there to some extent since it is located right at the edge and that without the lower wall there may be some difficulty with erosion. Gaffron indicated he would prefer not having the wall above the rip-rap at all, with the City's Comprehensive Plan supporting avoiding as many walls as possible near the lakeshore. Gaffron stated the question is whether the 3 to 1 slope can be achieved without the lower wall. Rahn inquired whether Staff has determined if the lower wall is necessary. Gaffron stated it appears that a grassy slope could be accomplished above the lower wall but that it may not be possible below the lower wall. Rahn stated in his opinion the top course could be removed. Kitz stated the northern end of the lot is very steep. Gaffron concurred that the northern end is steep,but stated at the place where the two walls come together at the north end may require a second tier to maintain the existing vegetation. Gaffron suggested removing the upper wall and doing some filling to recreate the hump that originally existed in the area. Gaffron indicated the Comprehensive Plan recommends restriction of retaining walls except in those areas where they are necessary to prevent erosion. Jurgens stated in his opinion the wall was built to achieve a flat area. Kist stated it was. Jurgens inquired why the rip-rap is not being extended further north. Kist stated she is unsure. PAGE 14 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3060 MICHAEL AND DONNA EBERTZ, CONTINUED) Jurgens inquired whether there is currently a variance for hardcover in the 0-75' setback. Curtis stated there were required reductions on the property during prior applications. Gaffron stated this property had variances granted to essentially convert a deck on the lakeside end of the house into a screened-in porch along with a stairway. Gaffron indicated no other hardcover variances were granted in the 0-75' zone,with a majority of the items pre-existing the previous application. Gaffron noted there were specific items that were required to be removed,which have been removed. Gaffron indicated the items remaining in that area are things that the City has accepted in the past. Jurgens stated he does not want to get back to the point where a variance to hardcover is required if there are items on the property that have not been accounted for. Gaffron indicated he is comfortable that the hardcover is at the level that it is supposed to be at. Kempf stated in his view the proposed wall most perpendicular to the water is necessary or that area would require additional fill, which would create a steeper slope down to the existing boulder wall. Jurgens stated the wall became necessary because the dirt was removed. Leslie stated it appears that they are restoring the ridgeline by the trees but is not necessarily changing what is required by the shoreline. Kempf stated a less steep pitch would prevent erosion,which the northern wall accomplishes. Kempf stated a course of boulders could be eliminated by keeping the dirt at a lower level. Rahn stated without a more detailed plan showing elevations,it is difficult to tell whether the lower wall is really necessary,but that it is his opinion the upper tier is not necessary. Rahn stated the possible need for the lower wall has arisen because of the removal of dirt. Jurgens stated this appears to be a situation where you ask for permission after it is done,and questioned whether the Planning Commission is going to ask for concessions on hardcover in the 0-75'. Jurgens stated the little shed could be removed as well as the two decks. Jurgens noted he did not see the shed depicted on any of the surveys. Rahn inquired whether Jurgens was looking at a zero percent increase in hardcover with the walls. Jurgens stated he is. Fritzler stated he is against any additional hardcover and that erosion would not be a problem if they had not removed the dirt. Fritzler stated in his view the area should be restored to its original condition as well as a reduction of hardcover in the 0-75' zone. PAGE 15 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3060 MICHAEL AND DONNA EBERTZ, CONTINUED) Rahn moved,Fritzler seconded,to recommend denial of Application#04-3069,Michael and Donna Ebertz, 1220 Tonkawa Road,and not allow the upper tier boulder walls,with the understanding that if the lower boulder walls are deemed necessary by the City Engineer,that they would be allowed, and if allowed,there would be an equivalent amount of hardcover removed in the 0-75' zone so there is no increase in hardcover in the 0-75' zone,and restoring the grade to a compliant state without any boulder walls. Winkey inquired whether the hardcover would exceed the 7.8 percent. Rahn stated there would be no new hardcover allowed. Rahn indicated if the top tier of wall is deemed necessary, then an equivalent amount of hardcover needs to be removed in the 0-75' zone. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 2,Leslie and Bremer Opposed. Leslie stated he is not sure whether there is enough hardcover that could be removed to offset the amount of hardcover that would be created by the walls. Bremer concurred with Leslie. 1. #04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS,LLC, 2665 MAPLERIDGE LANE,VARIANCE, 7:41 p.m.—8:05 p.m. Steve Longman and Tim Guilfoyle,Applicants, were present. Rahn noted the Planning Commission discussed this item earlier this evening,with the consensus of the Planning Commission being that they would like to see detailed elevations for the pool and the amount of fill that would be necessary to construct the pool. Steve Longman stated they are attempting to minimize the amount of steps from the house to the pool. Longman indicated they are envisioning the pool being approximately four feet above the walkout level, with the site not allowing the pool to be brought up to first floor elevation of the house. Longman indicated the existing deck and hot tub is approximately five to six feet below the main floor and they are trying to blend that concept in. Longman stated the drawing depicted is just an artist's rendition and does not contain a lot of detail. Longman stated worst case would be three to four feet of fill. Jurgens noted one plan depicts a 950' elevation for the pool deck. Jurgens indicated the drawing submitted by the applicants does not depict any steps. Jurgens noted the far corner of the pool closest to the lake shows a 940' elevation,which would have to be raised to 950' because the pool cannot be sloped. Jurgens indicated the City would like to avoid a case where excessive fill needs to be brought onto a site and that consideration also needs to be given for the neighbors' views. PAGE 16 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS, CONTINUED) Longman stated a 950' elevation is not their intent. Jurgens indicated he would like to see a grading plan to better understand the proposal and the amount of fill that would be required to verify that retaining walls are not necessary. Longman inquired whether a 944', 945' elevation for the pool would be okay. Rahn indicated the Planning Commission would like to see a plan depicting the elevations and the amount of fill that would be used as well as whether a fence would be constructed. Bremer inquired what type of fencing the applicant was considering. Longman stated he is contemplating an aluminum picket type fence. Leslie stated it is difficult to approve the application given the number of unknowns. Rahn noted the Planning Commission had previously voted to table the application to allow the applicant time to submit the requested information. Fritzler inquired whether they actually own the property. Longman stated they do. Fritzler indicated the walkout entrance should be secured because kids have been accessing the house. Jurgens noted the door has been kicked in and fires have been started in the fireplace. Longman stated the house has been secured a couple of times. Guilfoyle stated the house is scheduled to be demolished sometime this week. Gaffron inquired whether it is necessary to bring it back before the Planning Commission if Staff feels the applicant has lowered the elevation of the pool to the point where there are no negative impacts on the view of the neighbors. Kempf stated there were some concerns voiced regarding the slope and that he would like further clarification. Jurgens pointed out as long as it does not delay demolition of the house or construction of the new residence,that once the information is determined concerning the pool,it could be brought back before the Planning Commission to review the elevation of the pool and the slope. PAGE 17 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3069 G& L LAND INVESTMENTS, CONTINUED) Leslie inquired whether that would impact construction of the new residence. Longman stated since the pool is somewhat part of the design of the house,backfilling the foundation may be tricky given the average lakeshore setback. Guilfoyle inquired whether there are any criteria that they can be given. Jurgens stated the main concern he has is in regard to the amount of fill that may be required and that the slope is the deciding factor. Jurgens noted any fill in excess of 500 cubic yards would require a conditional use permit. Rahn inquired whether the fill has to be brought to the site. Gaffron stated in this case the fill could be used from the excavation of the house and that no extra fill may be necessary. Rahn suggested approving it subject to the grading and drainage plan being approved by the City Engineer and Staff. Gaffron stated a conditional use permit would be required for over 500 cubic yards of earth movement. Gaffron indicated in general for a house of this size a couple feet of fill against the pool would be normal. Gaffron stated the definition includes what is normal excavation,with 500 cubic yards being considered normal, and that if the fill being utilized is determined not to be out of the ordinary, Staff would not require a conditional use permit. Jurgens noted the building permit does allow backfilling and can be approved by the building inspector. Jurgens stated he is more concerned if a large amount of fill would need to be brought onto the site. Bremer stated she would be fine with a stipulation of 945' or lower elevation for the pool subject to the grading plan being approved by the City Engineer. Rahn inquired whether the grade would be sloped away and whether the slope would be less than 3 to 1. Longman indicated that is their intention. Bremer moved,Rahn seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3069, G& L Land Investments,LLC,2665 Mapleridge Lane,granting of an average lakeshore setback variance to permit the pool subject to the pool deck not exceeding a 945' elevation, and further subject to City Engineer and Staff's recommendations relating to grading and filling,with the understanding a conditional use permit may be necessary if extra fill is brought in. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 3,Jurgens, Leslie and Winkey Opposed. PAGE 18 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. 7. #04-04-3064 DOUGLAS AND DEBORAH INGVALSON,2460 BIRCH LANE— VARIANCE,8:05 p.m.-8:09 p.m. Douglas and Deborah Ingvalson,Applicants,were present. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting a hardcover variance to permit 53.19 percent hardcover in the 75'-250' zone when 25 percent is allowed and 53.05 percent currently exists. The property consists of .43 acres. Gundlach stated many lots in the neighborhood having been given hardcover variances either for a total rebuild or new addition. The applicants are proposing to construct a larger, covered entry consisting of 16 square feet. Staff finds that the request for a covered entry is reasonable and that a hardship is found in the existing hardcover constraints of the lot. Staff recommends approval of the request with the stipulation that the applicant should be instructed to remove, at a minimum, the new square footage proposed in order to maintain the current hardcover level. This would constitute removal of at least 16 square feet. The applicants had nothing to add to Staff's report. Rahn called for public comment. There were no public comments regarding this application. Jurgens inquired whether the plastic is currently included in the hardcover. Gundlach stated there is 656 square feet of plastic under wood chips, which is included in the existing hardcover calculation. Jurgens noted this property has a lot of hardcover,with a large portion consisting of driveway. Jurgens indicated he has a problem with approving 53 percent hardcover and that in his view the amount of parking available on this site could be reduced. Jurgens indicated it appears there are 11 parking spots available on this lot. Fritzler stated in his view it is excessive hardcover and that he would not want to convey to anyone that if you remove 16 feet,you can add 16 feet. Fritzler stated he would like a minimum size for the step. Fritzler stated he would not be in favor of increasing the hardcover any more than what currently exists. Mr. Ingvalson stated he is willing to remove all of the plastic under the wood chips. Gundlach stated typically plastic is not included in the numbers, and that removal of the plastic would reduce the amount of hardcover down to 48 percent. Mr. Ingvalson stated he would also be agreeable to remove some cement around a corner of the house and some pavers along the existing garage. PAGE 19 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3064 DOUGLAS AND DEBORAH INGVALSON,CONTINUED) Mrs. Ingvalson indicated the driveway was there when they purchased the property. Ingvalson noted they do have five children and that there is not room for eleven cars. Jurgens indicated he was including two stalls in the garage and that he personally would like to see the driveway reduced somewhat. Bremer noted the applicant has agreed to reduce an additional 86 feet of hardcover. Bremer pointed out this amount of hardcover is typical for this neighborhood. Jurgens stated residents of this neighborhood are fighting water problems and water runoff, which is attributed to hardcover and that the residents need to reduce hardcover wherever possible. Mr. Ingvalson stated the hardcover on the lot was pre-existing. Bremer moved,Leslie seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3064,Douglas & Deborah Ingvalson,3460 Birch Lane,granting of a hardcover variance,with the stipulation that the 656 square feet of plastic be removed as well as 86 square feet in concrete pads be removed along both of the garages. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 1,Jurgens opposed. Jurgens indicated he would like to see further reductions in hardcover. 8. #04-3065 D.MARK AND BONNIE HECTOR,3265 CARMAN ROAD—VARIANCE, 8:09 p.m.—8:13 p.m. Mark and Bonnie Hector,Applicants, were present. Curtis stated the applicants are requesting a structural coverage variance and hardcover variances in the 0- 75' zone and 75'-250' zone in order to rebuild and reconfigure a lakeside deck on the existing home. Curtis indicated the structural coverage variance is being requested to increase structural coverage by 194 square feet above the amount approved as part of a variance granted in 2001 for a total of 3,474 square feet or 22.1 percent structural coverage. The amount approved in 2001 was 3,280 square feet or 20.9 percent. Hardcover variances are also being requested for 6.7 percent within the 0-75' setback and 55.5 percent within the 75'-250'. Existing hardcover within the 0-75' zone is at 4.07 percent and 55.2 percent in the 75'-250',both of which were previously approved in 2001. Curtis indicated following discussions with Staff the applicants have submitted a revised proposal with alterations and a slight reduction to their initial request. Curtis stated the applicants are willing to reconfigure their plan slightly in order to not exceed the levels approved in 2001. PAGE 20 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3065 MARK AND BONNIE HECTOR,CONTINUED) Staff recommends approval of variances to rebuild and reconfigure the lakeside deck with the stipulation that the previous levels of structural coverage and hardcover not be increased with the rebuild. Rahn inquired whether the plan has been revised to meet Staff's recommendations. Mr. Hector indicated that is correct. Rahn inquired whether there would be any increase in hardcover or structural coverage with the revised plan. Hector indicated there would not be. Hector noted the plastic has already been removed. Curtis stated the plastic was removed and a revised survey was received this afternoon showing the removal. Rahn called for public comment. There were no public comments regarding this application. Bremer indicated she is fine with the proposal. Fritzler inquired what the revised plan does to the hardcover square footage. Curtis stated the applicants would not exceed the hardcover that was approved in 2001, which is 4.7 percent. Jurgens stated if the hardcover and structural coverage are not being increased above what was previously approved, why it is necessary for the Planning Commission to vote on this item. Curtis indicated the applicants are rebuilding the entire deck. Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3065,D. Mark and Bonnie Hector,3265 Carman Road, granting of a structural coverage variance and hardcover variances to reconstruct a deck with the stipulation that the previous levels of structural coverage and hardcover not be increased with the rebuild. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. PAGE 21 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. 9. #04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE,4051 HIGHWOOD ROAD—VARIANCES, 8:13 p.m.—8:46 p.m. William Rouse, Applicant,was present. Curtis stated the applicants are requesting a side setback variance in order to reorient the roof of the house and the garage within the 10' side setback and are also requesting a lake setback variance in order to add a second story over a portion of the existing home within 75' of the ordinary high water level. Curtis noted although the applicants are not requesting hardcover variances,they are proposing some reductions in hardcover as part of this application. Staff recommends approval of the side setback and the lake setback variances as requested in conjunction with the removal of hardcover within the 0-75' and 75'-250' setback zones as the Planning Commission deems appropriate. Staff finds there is a hardship given the location of the existing home and garage with respect to the 10' side and 75' lake setbacks. Curtis noted the existing home at one time did meet the 75' lake setback requirement prior to some erosion that has occurred on the property. Rouse had nothing to add to Staffs report. Rahn called for public comments. There were no public comments regarding this application. Leslie inquired what the value of the improvements is relative to the value of the house. Leslie questioned whether this should be considered a rebuild or new construction. Curtis indicated she does not know the value of the improvements and that Staff is viewing it as a remodel and addition. Rouse stated they are adding up above the east side of the house and basically taking a one-story rambler and making it a story and a half cape cod. Rouse indicated two bedrooms would be constructed above the east side,with the roofline being changed to meet the upper story. Fritzler inquired whether there is presently a room upstairs. Rouse indicated there is not. Fritzler inquired whether the first floor ceilings are being raised as part of this project. Rouse indicated a portion of the ceiling on the first floor is being raised to ten feet and part of it is remaining at eight foot. Rahn inquired where the eight-foot walls are located. PAGE 22 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE,CONTINUED) Rouse stated the eight-foot walls are located on the backside of the house up above the two windows and would remain at eight foot,with the same load-bearing wall going down the middle of the house being utilized. Rahn inquired whether the house is being demolished down to the cap. Rouse stated no walls would be removed, with two-foot walls being added on top of the eight-foot walls. Rouse indicated the walls are presently 2' by 4' and would be made into 2' by 6'. Rahn inquired whether an engineer is designing the walls. Rouse stated there is. Rahn pointed out as a result of the addition of the two-foot wall,there would be a hinge in the wall. Rouse indicated he is aware of that and that every third 2' by 4' would be continuous. Bremer commented this is similar to a property being rebuilt currently on Shadywood. Bremer noted the Planning Commission did allow the property owners in that instance to remove the roof of a rambler and construct a second floor. Bremer stated it is a tough call at times to decide whether this is a rebuild or a remodel. Rouse stated financially he considers it a remodel. Rahn inquired whether the two-story area is in a conforming location. Curtis stated there is one portion encroaching into the 0-75' zone, with the deck remaining as well. Rahn noted the encroachment is due to erosion. Rouse stated there would be no addition within the encroachment. Rouse stated one side of the house was built in the early 1900's, with the other side of the house being constructed in 1984. Rouse indicated the addition is going over the house that was built later. Rahn inquired whether there is a door on the side of the house that abuts the alley. Rouse stated there is not. Rouse indicated there are steps off the deck in that area. Leslie noted there is a substantial amount of hardcover on the lot, and questioned if this would be considered a rebuild,would the amount of hardcover be approved. PAGE 23 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE,CONTINUED) Rouse indicated he is willing to reduce the hardcover in the 0-75' zone consisting of five square feet of plastic and 26 square feet of wood borders. In the 75-250' setback,466 square feet of concrete would be removed, in addition to some rock and plastic and another 108 square feet of rock borders. Rouse indicated almost 1000 square feet of hardcover would be removed as part of this project. Rouse stated he is looking at putting approximately 200 square feet of stepping stones from the garage to the house. Rouse indicated those reductions would lower the hardcover from 39.3 percent to 33.8 percent. Rouse noted his hardcover calculations do include the plastic underlayment. Rahn stated in his view the whole lakeside wall is going to be reconstructed and not much is going to be remaining but the cap of the structure and 16 lineal feet of eight-foot wall. Rahn inquired whether the City has passed any ordinances relating to determination of remodel versus rebuild. Gaffron stated the ordinances are still in the discussion stage. Gaffron indicated applicants are told that if more than 50 percent of the existing value of the house is removed,that Staff has to look at it as a rebuild and not a remodel. Gaffron stated there is some ambiguity in determining the value and 50 percent. Rouse stated he has received four bids and in none of the bids do the walls come down. Rahn inquired whether the layout of the first floor would change. Rouse stated some of the internal walls would change as far as the layout itself, with the load bearing walls remaining. Rahn stated the City should require demolition plans to give Staff a better idea of what is being removed. Rahn commented in his opinion the majority of the interior walls would be removed as well as increasing the height. Rouse stated the older area of the house consists basically of a small bathroom, a small bedroom, and a small eating area,which are basically one room. Rouse indicated there are no interior walls in that area. Fritzler inquired whether the bathroom would remain. Rouse indicated the bathroom would not remain. Fritzler stated in his opinion the bump-out wall could disappear. Rouse stated there are no plans to change the outside structure,with all the exterior walls remaining. Rahn stated the addition of the headers would change the outside of the structure. Rouse stated the sliding glass doors exist today. PAGE 24 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE, CONTINUED) Rahn inquired whether the lake view wall is going to remain as is. Rouse stated some of the windows currently exist and some will be added. Leslie stated if this were considered a rebuild,the Planning Commission would require some reductions in hardcover. Leslie stated in his opinion the Planning Commission would require the removal of the plastic,removal of the concrete, as well as a reduction in the blacktop along the side of the existing garage. Jurgens stated the deck in front of the cottage could also be removed. Jurgens inquired whether there is plumbing in the little shed. Rouse stated there is. Jurgens inquired whether there is a conditional use permit for the plumbing. Rouse stated he is not able to answer that. Gaffron stated if the plumbing was pre-existing prior to the requirement of a conditional use permit, it probably does not have one. Gaffron stated the plumbing in accessory buildings conditional use permit has only been in existence for approximately five years. Rouse pointed out the entryway is from the west side. Jurgens noted a lot of the driveway is within the alley and is not being included in the hardcover calculations. Rouse stated he has a concern since Highwood is a very dark,narrow road and that he prefers to back into the blacktop space from a safety perspective. Rouse stated the road is at approximately a 960' elevation and is reduced to 944' by the walkway. Rouse stated the water that comes through that area following a heavy rain is four to eight inches. Jurgens inquired what the shed is used for. Jurgens noted the shed is considered hardcover and that if it is not used frequently, it could perhaps be eliminated. Rouse stated it is used as a guesthouse and he would like to retain it. Rouse indicated he does not want to disrupt the vegetation below the wooden walkway given the water runoff in that area. Fritzler stated there is excessive hardcover on this lot and that the applicant needs to reduce some of it. Fritzler indicated in his opinion some of the driveway could also be removed. Fritzler noted that gravel is considered hardcover. PAGE 25 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE, CONTINUED) Rouse stated backing out on the street does not make sense from a safety standpoint. Leslie inquired whether he could back out onto the alley. Rahn stated the alley could be the backup apron. Rouse suggested the blacktop portion of the alley be made straight. Fritzler stated the alley is public property and that the property owner would not get credit for removing hardcover from the alley. Rouse commented the removal of hardcover from the alley would accomplish a reduction in hardcover. Curtis stated the applicant does a right by a resolution adopted in 2002 to maintain and use that portion of the alley for his driveway. Winkey inquired whether the applicant could remove hardcover from the alley. Curtis stated the applicant could remove hardcover from the alley. Gaffron noted this property has been given special dispensation years ago and that the applicant can remove the hardcover from the alley. Kempf stated if the applicant is agreeable to removing some of the blacktop from the alley, that that would help to accomplish the goal of reducing the hardcover in this area. Curtis stated with the applicant's original proposals,the hardcover would be reduced to 33.8, which includes the addition of the 200 square feet of pavers to access the garage. Rouse stated the 200 square feet would be the maximum and that he is considering stepping stones in that area. Rahn stated the only additional removal of hardcover the Planning Commission is discussing is the portion of the blacktop alley. Bremer requested the applicant explain what he is proposing to do with the alley. Rouse indicated that he is proposing to make the alleyway straighter. Rouse noted there is a slight elevation change in the area by the garage and that presently there are timbers in that area. Jurgens inquired whether the applicant would be willing to reduce hardcover further up on the lot rather than down below. Jurgens noted the alley area where the applicant is proposing to reduce the hardcover PAGE 26 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE,CONTINUED) could accommodate two cars and that the maneuver out of the garage with the applicant's suggested removal of hardcover would become much more difficult. Rouse stated he would prefer to lose the hardcover in the driveway area rather than further up on the lot. Rouse stated he would like to make one walkway coming from the garage rather than coming down the slope. Jurgens moved,Leslie seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3066,William and Anita Rouse,4051 Highwood Road,granting of a side setback variance and a lake setback variance in order to reorient the roof of the house and the garage,with the stipulation that hardcover will be reduced to a level of 33 percent in the 75'-250' zone and 12.65 percent in the 0-75',with the understanding there will be some reduction in the amount of blacktop in the alley. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. 10. #04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION ON BEHALF OF DENNIS AND AMANDA WALSH, 1354 REST POINT LANE—VARIANCES,8:47 p.m.—9:28 p.m. Dennis and Amanda Walsh,Applicants, were present. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting a hardcover variance to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75'-250' zone when 25' percent is allowed. Currently there is almost 45 percent hardcover in the 75'-250' area. The property consists of.72 acres. Gundlach indicated the property received an after-the-fact hardcover variance for a deck in 1999,with approval of a 29.9 percent hardcover. Staff recommends approval of the hardcover request to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75'-250' zone with the following stipulations: 1. The wood chip area located in the southeast corner of the lot and following the eastern lot line (not shown on the surveys) shall be re-vegetated with grass or the fabric liner shall be removed to allow water infiltration. 2. The wood timber walls and rock borders that have appeared since the 1999 variance approval shall be removed as shown on the removal plan attached as Exhibit G. 3. The landscape rock shown on the proposed survey and labeled as"not hardcover"must be removed as the existing rock has become compacted. PAGE 27 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION,CONTINUED) Gundlach indicated Staff has visited the site and has determined that the area labeled on the survey as "not hardcover"is hardcover since it has been driven on or parked on and has become compacted to the point where it no longer allows infiltration of water. Gundlach stated because this area is utilized by the Public Works Department for snow storage, Staff would support that area remaining as rock but that the existing rock needs to be removed and new landscape rock and a border be installed in that area to prevent vehicles from parking or driving on it. 4. The existing wood platform located at the shore shall only be allowed as a temporary means for dock storage. This structure shall be removed when the applicant's dock is in the water. 5. The applicants are advised that upon re-construction of the lake yard staircase, all encroachments must be eliminated and the two existing decks within the staircase may not be rebuilt; nor may any platforms, except one 32 square foot in size,be permitted. 6. Due to the intense vegetation removal that has occurred on the bluff, although not all of it recently, a bluff restoration and preservation plan must be submitted prior to issuance of a certificate of occupancy for the proposed addition. Gundlach noted the removal of the vegetation may have taken place prior to the applicant owning the property but that the bluff is in danger of eroding and appropriate action needs to be taken to restore that area. Rahn asked for public comment. There were no public comments concerning this application. Rahn stated he has spoken with the applicant who indicated he is receptive to the majority of the removals. Walsh stated he does not have a problem with a majority of the removals,but that there are some items he would like to discuss. Walsh indicated the wooden wall was extended approximately seven feet to prevent water runoff into the house. Walsh stated he does not consider that a hardcover issue but rather a sensibility issue to correct the water runoff. Walsh stated he does not have a problem with removing the wood platforms,but that he may not be able to do it immediately until the steps are relocated. Walsh indicated the area where the landscape rock is located does accommodate snow storage and that in his opinion any replacement of the rock and border would be destroyed during the winter when the snow plows deposit snow in that area. Walsh noted the Public Works Department plows eight to ten feet into his yard at times, which would result in that area becoming wrecked every winter. Fritzler inquired how many cars park in that area. PAGE 28 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION,CONTINUED) Walsh stated that area is designated for guest parking. Fritzler pointed out that guests could park in the driveway if the applicant's cars were in the garage. Walsh indicated at certain times of the year he has a number of guests and that there is not ample parking space in the driveway. Walsh stated the snow kills the grass in that area every year and that he does not get much use out of that area due to the amount of snow stored there. Kempf inquired whether that is the same area that Staff is recommending replacement of the rock. Gundlach stated she is recommending that the rock that is there now not remain since it has become compacted. Gundlach indicated the City plows in that direction because if they came from the other direction,they would deposit the snow in his driveway. Gundlach stated she is not recommending that area be landscaped but that new landscape rock should be placed there to allow water permeation. Rahn noted the applicant does not want to improve that area if the snowplows are going to continue to use that area for snow storage. Rahn stated he does not see a way for the snowplow truck to not dump the snow in that area given the corner. Winkey commented it is likely that the new landscape rock would get compacted. Walsh stated whatever is put down in that area is going to get scraped out of that area by the plows. Fritzler suggested the snowplows come from the other direction. Gundlach indicated that would then deposit the snow in the applicant's driveway. Walsh stated the road in that area is so tight that it makes it difficult for the snowplows to maneuver the corner. Fritzler stated in his opinion the rock should be removed to reduce the hardcover and that if the applicant parks cars in that area, it would become hardcover. Fritzler stated in his view the Public Works Department should store the snow elsewhere. Jurgens stated the snow is an issue for Public Works and that they need to do something else with the snow since they are encroaching onto the applicant's property right now. Jurgens stated the Planning Commission needs to deal with the hardcover on this lot and that the Public Works Department needs to address the snow storage. Leslie stated the Planning Commission could acknowledge that Public Works has to dump snow there and that any efforts to make that area not hardcover would be a short-term solution. Leslie suggested that area PAGE 29 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION, CONTINUED) be removed from the hardcover calculations since there does not appear to be another option for the snow storage. Leslie stated in his opinion any rock placed in that area would eventually become impervious. Gundlach stated she is not suggesting a border be constructed in that area but is recommending the old rock be removed and new rock be placed in that area. Jurgens stated there does appear to be room to create a windrow on one side or the other and that the applicant could shovel his driveway after the plows go through. Rahn stated to his understanding the plow truck cannot make that corner. Fritzler stated they could use a smaller plow truck like they do for the cul-de-sacs and other smaller areas. Winkey commented placing rock in that area is not a viable solution since the rock would get scraped away. Walsh stated the salt in the snow kills the grass and that there is a great amount of snow that is pushed into that area. Gundlach stated she did consult with the Public Works Department and they indicated that that is the only location where they can put the snow due to the angle of the road. Gundlach noted grass would probably not grow in that area,which is why she is recommending landscape rock in that area. Rahn stated the applicant is looking for a common sense solution to the snow storage problem that would benefit both parties. Rahn stated there could possibly be a reduction in the hardcover in that area,but that in his opinion the replacement of the rock might be a waste of time. Walsh indicated it only takes one big snowfall for that area to be full of snow. Kempf stated in his view this is an exceptional case. Walsh suggested leaving the area alone for a year,but that he would eventually like to resolve the problem. Walsh indicated he does not want to incur the expense of replacing the rock in that area every year. Fritzler stated there still remains excessive hardcover on this lot, and because that area is used for parking at certain times, it should be counted as hardcover. Fritzler suggested placing rock for a couple of feet rather than all the rock that is there. Walsh stated in his opinion that would not be a practical solution since the Public Works Department does utilize that entire area. PAGE 30 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION, CONTINUED) Fritzler stated in his opinion the Public Works Department should deal with the snow in another way,but that as long as the applicant is going to utilize that area for parking, it should be counted as hardcover. Bremer stated she does not want to have a situation where the City is taking advantage of people because they are living in a particular location or where the Planning Commission is committing the City to doing something other than what has been done for years and years. Bremer indicated she does not feel comfortable requiring the Public Works Department to do something different in this area and that she would prefer to keep the situation status quo and perhaps revisit the issue in the future. Bremer stated she would be interested to hear any recommendations Staff might have for hardcover removals. Bremer stated in her view it does not make sense to replace the rock if it is going to be compacted again in a year or two. Jurgens inquired how that area would become compacted if only snow is put in that area. Bremer stated if rock is put down in that area,people would more than likely park there. Jurgens stated he does have an issue with putting something in that area that could potentially be destroyed and that perhaps it is necessary to have Public Works at the meeting to answer questions. Jurgens stated he feels very strongly that this hardcover needs to be removed,noting it was approved at 29.9 percent. Jurgens pointed out the area near the bluff was not included in the calculations. Gundlach indicated the survey that was approved for the building permit in 1989 required the rock southerly of the 250' lake setback be removed and the rock northerly of the 250' lake setback could remain as the lot fully conformed with all hardcover standards. The variance in 1999 allowed access hardcover. Rahn noted there could perhaps be a removal of hardcover between the edge of that area towards the home. Rahn stated the applicant needs a method of swaling water around the lower doors and that the timbers constitute less hardcover than boulders and are also less intrusive. Jurgens noted there is a hump farther down that holds the water back and that it might be a grading issue. Rahn inquired whether the wing wall would be addressed at another time. Gaffron stated the addition is going on the west side of the house so that area of the lawn may not be addressed as a part of this project unless required by the City. Rahn stated he is willing to leave the little wing wall for deflection of water given the small amount of hardcover that it constitutes and also because the applicant has indicated he is willing to do other hardcover reductions. PAGE 31 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION,CONTINUED) Jurgens inquired about the retaining walls near the bluff. Gundlach stated those areas were approved in 1999. Gundlach indicated it is possible that another timber has been added on top. Walsh stated he did place two timbers in that area on top of the other ones because the ones that were there were deteriorating. Gaffron inquired how far out the wing wall next to the house goes out in terms of the lot line and whether the applicant can go around the wall without going on the neighbor's property. Walsh stated there was a wall there previously and can be accessed by a mower. Jurgens inquired whether someone on Staff could determine when the cutting occurred on the bluff Gaffron stated they are not able to do that. Walsh stated he cleaned out the old Christmas trees and garbage in that area. Walsh stated they might have cut down some little trees for the rip-rap and that he did trim some of the smaller trees with a small hand-held saw. Gaffron stated the majority of the stuff that was cut that he observed was less than four inches. Gaffron stated his concern is that if the canopy is removed,the rain would hit the slope harder and erosion can occur. Walsh indicated he has delayed restoring the bluff until his plans are developed regarding the stairs. Jurgens stated the bluff does need to be restored. Gundlach indicated Staff is recommending the bluff restoration plan be submitted prior to a final inspection with possible implementation of the plan by the end of the summer. Jurgens stated he would like to have the plan approved prior to the final inspection,with a deadline being established for the work to be accomplished. Jurgens suggested the applicant consider incorporating the work on the stairs at the time of the restoration. Jurgens pointed out the applicant would have a limited period of time in which to comply with the restoration. Winkey inquired if concessions are given for the area for the snow storage,whether that would be the same as what was approved in 1999. Winkey stated in his view only the part that was approved back in 1999 should be allowed to remain. PAGE 32 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION, CONTINUED) Gundlach stated they could consult with the Public Works Director on the amount of gravel needed for this area. Winkey stated he is willing to make concessions for snow storage but not for parking in that area. Walsh stated he would also be glad to meet with the person who does the plowing in that area to see whether they can arrive at some type of solution. Gaffron stated the area of the gravel in the 75-250' zone was probably traded with the 250'-500' zone. Gaffron stated his recollection of the 1999 approval is that the curb cut was maxed out at 20 feet and that he does not recall snow being an issue in that prior approval. Gaffron stated the road is narrow and the snow needs to be stored somewhere. Rahn stated the more logical location for the snow is near the corner rather than in the middle of the road. Jurgens suggested including as a condition that the area for the snow storage be minimized per Public Works' recommendations based on the amount of area they determine is required for snow storage. Jurgens moved to recommend approval of Application#04-3067,Lecy Construction on behalf of Dennis and Amanda Walsh, 1354 Rest Point Circle,granting of a hardcover variance to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75-250' zone,with the stipulations as listed in the November 15,2004 Planner's Report,with the understanding that condition No. 3 will be revised to say that the amount of hardcover required in that area for snow storage will be reduced to a minimum as determined by the Public Works Department and that Condition No. 6 will be changed to say that a final inspection will not be given until approval of a bluff restoration plan. Fritzler inquired whether it must be landscaped in such a way as to prevent parking. Kempf stated he does not see it as being possible. Jurgens stated he would like minimum size and location for snow removal in the motion. Bremer inquired whether the wall would remain. Jurgens amended his motion to include removal of the wing wall and retaining walls near the bluff area. Jurgens stated in his view the runoff in the area of the wing wall is a grading issue. Fritzler seconded the motion. PAGE 33 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION,CONTINUED) Jurgens stated he did observe the wing wall and that there is a problem further down the line,which needs to be addressed. Kempf stated he is in agreement with Rahn that the hardcover in that area is insignificant and that there is a significant amount of water coming down that hill which could perhaps be alleviated with a swale. Jurgens stated an erosion problem might be created around the wall if it is not removed. VOTE: Ayes 3,Nays 4,Bremer,Rahn,Leslie,Kempf opposed. MOTION FAILED. Bremer moved,Kempf seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3067,Lecy Construction on behalf of Dennis and Amanda Walsh, 1354 Rest Point Lane,granting of a hardcover variance to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75'-250' zone, subject to the conditions outlined in the November 15,2004 Planner's Report,with the understanding that condition No.3 will be revised to say that the amount of hardcover required in that area for snow storage will be reduced to a minimum as determined by the Public Works Department and that Condition No. 6 will be changed to say that a final inspection will not be given until approval of a bluff restoration plan, and with the further understanding that the wing wall may remain. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS 11. REPORT OF PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVES ATTENDING COUNCIL MEETINGS OCTOBER 25 AND NOVEMBER 8,2004 Kempf indicated he was in attendance at the October 25th City Council meeting,noting that the James Rendall application was approved on the consent agenda. Kempf stated a portion of the large vehicle storage ordinance was deleted relating to the shared driveway situation to require that the property owner only needs to show that there is an easement in place. Kempf stated as part of the Persian application the homeowner's association requested additional time, which the Council denied based on the recommendation of the City Attorney. Kempf noted the Council did approve the Persian application. Fritzler indicated he attended the November 8 City Council meeting, with the Council approving the large vehicle ordinance. Fritzler noted the Spencer matter was denied and that the Capra application was tabled. PAGE 34 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. 12. OTHER ISSUES FOR DISCUSSION Gaffron noted a work session has been scheduled for December 1st. Gaffron stated signage would be on the agenda. Gaffron indicated a date has not been scheduled for a joint work session with the Council. 13. PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR OCTOBER 18 AND NOVEMBER 3,2004 Jurgens moved,Fritzler seconded,to approve the minutes of the October 18 and November 3,2004 Planning Commission meetings as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 7 Nays 0 14. SELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS ON NOVEMBER 22 AND DECEMBER 13, 2004 November 22—Winkey December 13 —Leslie ADJOURNMENT Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to adjourn the meeting at 9:35 p.m. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. There being no further business to discuss,the meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m. David Rahn,Chair PAGE 35 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. ROLL The Orono Planning Commission met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Chair David Rahn, Commissioners J.Marc Fritzler,Jim Leslie,Ralph Kempf,Roland Jurgens,Cynthia Bremer,and Travis Winkey. Representing Staff were Planning Director Mike Gaffron,Planners Melanie Curtis and Janice Gundlach, and Recorder Jackie Young. Chair Rahn called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. CONSENT Item No. 1 was removed from the Consent Agenda. 1. #04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS,LLC,2665 MAPLERLDGE LANE— VARIANCE, 6:01 p.m.—6:02 p.m. The applicants were not present. Rahn asked for public comments. There were no public comments concerning this application. Due to the absence of the applicants,this item was held open and follows Items#2 and#6. OLD BUSINESS 2. #04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM,2618 CASCO POINT ROAD—VARIANCES, 6:02—6:20 p.m. Eric Vogstrom,Applicant was present. Curtis noted this application was recommended for denial at the October Planning Commission meeting.Since that time the applicant has proposed reductions and this matter has been referred back to the Planning Commission by the City Council. The revised plan consists of a hardcover variance within the 75'-250' zone of 36.8 percent hardcover and an average lakeshore setback to encroach 5' nearer the lake than the property to the south. Curtis stated the applicant has submitted a tree and vegetation restoration plan for the property,with Staff currently reviewing that plan. Staff recommends approval of the average lakeshore setback variance,and PAGE 1 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM, CONTINUED) Fritzler stated he would prefer the hardcover be reduced even further. Fritzler stated in his opinion the property owner has not done enough to try to build within the restrictions and that he would like to see the hardcover at 25 percent. Fritzler indicated he does not want to see the hardcover increase in the next few years from what is approved tonight. Leslie commented that consideration should be given to the fact that the proposed hardcover calculation now includes a driveway where the old hardcover number does not include a driveway. Leslie noted there is a three-car garage and inquired whether the garage could be reduced to a two-stall garage in an effort to reduce the size of the driveway and the amount of hardcover being proposed. Leslie indicated he does not feel a three-car garage is essential. Winkey inquired what the square footage is of the proposed driveway. Curtis stated it is 690 square feet. Winkey noted if a driveway similar to the current driveway is constructed,the hardcover would be approximately 2,600,2,700 square feet. Vogstrom stated he does own three cars and would like to build a home that is marketable in today's world. Vogstrom stated a three-car garage is standard nowadays. Vogstrom noted the floor plan is less than 1100 square feet and that in his opinion he is not able to reduce the hardcover any further. Vogstrom indicated he does not plan to increase the hardcover in the future since he has accounted for a deck and other items in the current design. Jeff Essen,2648 Casco Point Road,noted he was present at the first Planning Commission meeting where he expressed some concerns regarding drainage and off-street parking. Essen stated the street is rather narrow and the traffic goes through that area quite fast. Essen indicated he would not be opposed to granting some additional hardcover to accommodate parking on the lot rather than the street. Paul Kaster, 2600 Casco Point Road,stated the existing driveway exists totally in the fire lane,and questioned why the Planning Commission would take that piece of property and grant it as hardcover to the lot. Kaster stated the portion of the driveway that is located in the fire lane is a large section. Kaster stated that is not part of the property and should not be included in the area used to determine the appropriate hardcover. Rahn noted there is a large amount of hardcover in the fire lane,but indicated to his understanding the Planning Commission is not swapping that same square footage and allowing it on this property. Kaster inquired how much of the hardcover in the fire lane is being granted to the lot. Bremer indicated zero. • PAGE 3 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3052 ERIC VOGSTROM,CONTINUED) Vogstrom stated he also would prefer moving the house five feet to the north to avoid driving over tree roots and to improve the grading situation. Rahn noted Greg Gappa of the Public Works Department has been consulted with and has indicated he did not want the house to encroach on the fire lane. Rahn stated he would prefer not to have to grant that variance. Bremer inquired when this would appear before the City Council. Curtis stated she was planning to have it ready for the next City Council meeting. Rahn suggested the Council discuss the possible encroachment at their meeting since the Public Service Director would be in attendance at that time. Jurgens inquired whether the applicant was planning on having Spancrete in the garage to allow for an area underneath the garage. Vogstrom stated he is not sure how he would be able to access that. Jurgens noted if there were an area underneath the garage,a landing might be preferred. Jurgens indicated he is in favor of hardcover at 35 percent. Jurgens stated he does have concerns about people buying substandard lots and then wanting to construct a new residence on it. Jurgens stated the three-car garage and other features to this house are not a hardship. Jurgens stated he has a concern with the lakeshore setback since the house could be angled a little more and perhaps slightly reduced,which would eliminate the need for the average lakeshore setback. Jurgens commented he understands the house has been placed at an angle to allow for view of the long side of the lake,but that in his opinion the house could be angled slightly to eliminate the need for that variance. Vogstrom indicated he was surprised a variance would be needed given the distance from that point to the neighbors. Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3052,Eric Vogstrom, 2618 Casco Point Road,granting of a hardcover variance of 36.8 percent hardcover in the 75'-250' setback zone,a variance for a five foot encroachment into the average lakeshore setback, and to recommend approval of the tree restoration plan subject to Staff review and City Council approval. Rahn noted he does not see any areas where the hardcover could be reduced further. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 2,Fritzler and Jurgens Opposed. PAGE 5 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS, CONTINUED) Jurgens suggested that perhaps this application be tabled to allow the applicant time to submit final grading plans. Gundlach pointed out the applicants have not submitted final plans for the house. The applicants have indicated to Staff that the pool would not be any higher than the existing deck. Fritzler stated if this is not the final plan and the pool is not in the exact location it would be built in,he would prefer to table the application. Fritzler indicated he has the same concerns as Jurgens. Bremer inquired whether there could be a stipulation on the maximum elevation of the pool. Gundlach concurred that the height of the pool could be stipulated. Gundlach stated the applicants have not indicated that the location of the pool would change if the plans for the house change. Gundlach indicated the applicants are attempting to achieve a bigger driveway and have not indicated that the location of the pool would change. Leslie stated the concern he has with this application has to do with the likelihood of a fence being constructed around the pool and the extent to which that fence may obstruct the view of neighboring . properties. Leslie noted that point has not been addressed in the proposal. Gundlach stated Orono's Code does not require a pool to be fenced in,but noted that some insurance companies do require a fence. Bremer stated the Planning Commission could indicate a non-privacy type fence such as a rod iron fence would be okay. Winkey stated he also would prefer to have a final plan. Jurgens moved,Kempf seconded,to table Application#04-3069, G&L Land Investments, LLC,2665 Mapleridge Lane,to allow the applicant time to submit plans depicting final elevations of the pool and house and the amount of fill that would be required. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. NEW BUSINESS #04-3022 PHILIP AND KAREN SKOOG,280 TONKA AVENUE—VARIANCES,6:31 p.m.— 6:35 p.m. Philip Skoog,Applicant,is present. PAGE 7 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3056 DENNIS AND EVELYN BRUCE,CONTINUED) Curtis noted Staff has proposed an alternate orientation,with the same driveway and sidewalk being utilized. Mrs. Bruce indicated if the 20' by 30' garage is a problem or too large,they would be willing to reduce the size of the garage to 24'by 24'. Mr.Bruce stated if the maple tree is removed,he could locate the garage in that area. Bruce indicated the maple tree is right on the side of the cement pad,and with removal of the tree,the garage can be located further back towards the house. Rahn stated the biggest concern with the garage being constructed setback to setback is the view of the garage,which in his opinion would be somewhat out of character for the neighborhood. Rahn noted the existing overhead door is in the existing gable end,which would not need to be relocated. Rahn stated he would not be opposed to the garage if it is constructed along one of the 10-foot setbacks resulting in a larger side yard area,which would better match with the rest of the neighborhood. Mr.Bruce indicated that was their original plan but then it would not line up with the houses if the maple tree is not removed. Rahn inquired whether the applicants are willing to remove the plastic liner in the 500'-1000' zone. Mr. Bruce indicated he would remove the plastic liner. Rahn called for public comment. Roxann Beisch,3436 Livingston Avenue, stated this would be the second garage built in the neighborhood in front of the primary structure, and inquired whether there would be windows in the garage. Kempf noted there are two service doors on the west side if the garage door faces the street. Mr.Bruce indicated there is also a service door on the backside of the garage. Rahn stated he does not recall any windows. Rahn inquired what the issue is with the windows. Beisch stated the garage built across the street was made to look like a house from the street and not a garage. Beisch indicated she would prefer this garage does not have the appearance of a garage sticking out and that a window in the garage might help to improve the appearance. Curtis stated the garage doors would face the street with either design. Leslie stated if the windows were incorporated on the side,they would not be visible from the street. PAGE 9 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3056 DENNIS AND EVELYN BRUCE, CONTINUED) Leslie amended his motion,Fritzler seconded,to allow construction of a 24'by 24' garage located north/south rather than east/west along the west side setback. VOTE ON AMENDED MOTION: Ayes: 7,Nays 0. 5. #04-3057 DON HENDERSON,560 BIG ISLAND—VARIANCE,6:52 p.m.-7:12 p.m. Don Henderson,Applicant, and Michael Palm,Applicant,were present. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting a lot area variance to permit development of a lot 3.33 acres in size,of which 1.1 acres is dry and where 5.0 acres of dry buildable is normally required. This lot has remained vacant since prior to adoption of the current Seasonal Recreation District standards. At the time the Big Island ordinance was adopted,the property owners in ownership of lots less than five acres were given the chance to apply for"record lot status", which the owner of this lot did not do. Henderson has indicated he would like to sell the lot as a buildable lot, and a lot area variance must be granted under the current practices.The septic inspector has visited this site and has approved a primary and alternate septic site for a three-bedroom dwelling. The applicant has also indicated a desire to have a dock,but since it is impossible to access the dock without passing through wetland,the City is unable to determine what,if any,additional City permits would be required due to the moratorium on wetland alterations until a new Wetland Ordinance is adopted. Staff recommends approval of the request with the stipulation that the City Engineer approves a grading plan at the building permit phase and conformance with all hardcover,structural coverage, setback, and septic requirements. Henderson indicated he is aware that some neighbors have expressed concerns regarding this application, but noted that all the requirements of the City have been met. Henderson stated the proposed location of the dock would require access over three or four feet of wetlands. Rahn indicated the Planning Commission cannot act on the dock at this point and would have to wait until the moratorium expires before they are able to consider that issue. Selden Robb, 570 Big Island, stated he would like to see the size of the house restricted somewhat and that he has concerns regarding the preservation of wildlife in this area. Robb stated he would like the brush to remain virtually untouched so that it would be a good buffer between the residence and the wetlands and allow for the preservation of wildlife. PAGE 11 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3057 DON HENDERSON,CONTINUED) Kempf commented it is a shame when a unique area gets developed,but that he sees no reason to not proceed forward with the application given the rights of the property owner. Fritzler requested the building pad be defined in the resolution. Gundlach noted there is a maximum of three bedrooms given the size of the septic system. Jurgens inquired when the property was purchased. Henderson stated the property was purchased in 1957 and that his intent is to sell the property to the Palms. Kempf moved,Winkey seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3057,Michael Palm and Don Henderson,560 Big Island,granting of a lot area variance to construct a seasonal cabin on an existing vacant lot,subject to the City Engineer approving a grading plan at the building permit phase and conformance with all hardcover,structural coverage,setback, and septic requirements, with the understanding that the residence will not exceed three bedrooms. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. (Recess taken at 7:13—7:18 p.m.) 6. #04-3060 MICHAEL AND DONNA EBERTZ, 1220 TONKAWA ROAD,AFTER-THE- FACT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT,7:19 p.m.—7:40 p.m. Cindy Kist,Landscape Architect,was present on behalf of the Applicants. Curtis stated the applicants are requesting after-the-fact approval for a conditional use permit in order to construct a boulder wall and re-grade the lake yard. A hardcover variance is also necessary due to the change in the hardcover percentage proposed. The applicants are proposing to increase the hardcover within the 0-75' zone from 7.84 percent to 8.7 percent,which amounts to 292 square feet of hardcover. Curtis noted a history and analysis of the property is outlined in Exhibit L. Staff recommends approval of the application subject to the submittal of a plan showing the elimination of the upper tier of walls to the greatest extent possible, compliance with the City Engineer's recommendations; and any additional conditions or revisions the Planning Commission may wish to add. Ms.Kist stated according to the report, it would not be difficult to revise the grading plan regarding the upper retaining wall. Kist stated she is unsure what is meant regarding the steeper slope contained in the report. Rahn stated the slope appears to be gradual in that area and that he would not be receptive to the upper tiers. Rahn stated it also appears that one course of the lower retaining wall could also be removed. Rahn PAGE 13 M NTJTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3060 MICHAEL AND DONNA EBERTZ, CONTINUED) Jurgens inquired whether there is currently a variance for hardcover in the 0-75' setback. Curtis stated there were required reductions on the property during prior applications. Gaffron stated this property had variances granted to essentially convert a deck on the lakeside end of the house into a screened-in porch along with a stairway. Gaffron indicated no other hardcover variances were granted in the 0-75' zone,with a majority of the items pre-existing the previous application. Gaffron noted there were specific items that were required to be removed,which have been removed. Gaffron indicated the items remaining in that area are things that the City has accepted in the past. Jurgens stated he does not want to get back to the point where a variance to hardcover is required if there are items on the property that have not been accounted for. Gaffron indicated he is comfortable that the hardcover is at the level that it is supposed to be at. Kempf stated in his view the proposed wall most perpendicular to the water is necessary or that area would require additional fill,which would create a steeper slope down to the existing boulder wall. Jurgens stated the wall became necessary because the dirt was removed. Leslie stated it appears that they are restoring the ridgeline by the trees but is not necessarily changing what is required by the shoreline. Kempf stated a less steep pitch would prevent erosion,which the northern wall accomplishes. Kempf stated a course of boulders could be eliminated by keeping the dirt at a lower level. Rahn stated without a more detailed plan showing elevations,it is difficult to tell whether the lower wall is really necessary,but that it is his opinion the upper tier is not necessary. Rahn stated the possible need for the lower wall has arisen because of the removal of dirt. Jurgens stated this appears to be a situation where you ask for permission after it is done,and questioned whether the Planning Commission is going to ask for concessions on hardcover in the 0-75'. Jurgens stated the little shed could be removed as well as the two decks. Jurgens noted he did not see the shed depicted on any of the surveys. Rahn inquired whether Jurgens was looking at a zero percent increase in hardcover with the walls. Jurgens stated he is. Fritzler stated he is against any additional hardcover and that erosion would not be a problem if they had not removed the dirt. Fritzler stated in his view the area should be restored to its original condition as well as a reduction of hardcover in the 0-75' zone. PAGE 15 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3069 G&L LAND INVESTMENTS, CONTINUED) Longman stated a 950' elevation is not their intent. Jurgens indicated he would like to see a grading plan to better understand the proposal and the amount of fill that would be required to verify that retaining walls are not necessary. Longman inquired whether a 944', 945' elevation for the pool would be okay. Rahn indicated the Planning Commission would like to see a plan depicting the elevations and the amount of fill that would be used as well as whether a fence would be constructed. Bremer inquired what type of fencing the applicant was considering. Longman stated he is contemplating an aluminum picket type fence. Leslie stated it is difficult to approve the application given the number of unknowns. Rahn noted the Planning Commission had previously voted to table the application to allow the applicant time to submit the requested information. Fritzler inquired whether they actually own the property. Longman stated they do. Fritzler indicated the walkout entrance should be secured because kids have been accessing the house. Jurgens noted the door has been kicked in and fires have been started in the fireplace. Longman stated the house has been secured a couple of times. Guilfoyle stated the house is scheduled to be demolished sometime this week. Gaffron inquired whether it is necessary to bring it back before the Planning Commission if Staff feels the applicant has lowered the elevation of the pool to the point where there are no negative impacts on the view of the neighbors. Kempf stated there were some concerns voiced regarding the slope and that he would like further clarification. Jurgens pointed out as long as it does not delay demolition of the house or construction of the new residence,that once the information is determined concerning the pool,it could be brought back before the Planning Commission to review the elevation of the pool and the slope. PAGE 17 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. 7. #04-04-3064 DOUGLAS AND DEBORAH INGVALSON,2460 BIRCH LANE— VARIANCE,8:05 p.m.-8:09 p.m. Douglas and Deborah Ingvalson,Applicants,were present. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting a hardcover variance to permit 53.19 percent hardcover in the 75'-250' zone when 25 percent is allowed and 53.05 percent currently exists. The property consists of .43 acres. Gundlach stated many lots in the neighborhood having been given hardcover variances either for a total rebuild or new addition. The applicants are proposing to construct a larger, covered entry consisting of 16 square feet. Staff finds that the request for a covered entry is reasonable and that a hardship is found in the existing hardcover constraints of the lot. Staff recommends approval of the request with the stipulation that the applicant should be instructed to remove,at a minimum,the new square footage proposed in order to maintain the current hardcover level. This would constitute removal of at least 16 square feet. The applicants had nothing to add to Staff's report. Rahn called for public comment. There were no public comments regarding this application. Jurgens inquired whether the plastic is cuurently included in the hardcover. Gundlach stated there is 656 square feet of plastic under wood chips,which is included in the existing hardcover calculation. Jurgens noted this property has a lot of hardcover,with a large portion consisting of driveway. Jurgens indicated he has a problem with approving 53 percent hardcover and that in his view the amount of parking available on this site could be reduced. Jurgens indicated it appears there are 11 parking spots available on this lot. Fritzler stated in his view it is excessive hardcover and that he would not want to convey to anyone that if you remove 16 feet,you can add 16 feet. Fritzler stated he would like a minimum size for the step. Fritzler stated he would not be in favor of increasing the hardcover any more than what currently exists. Mr.Ingvalson stated he is willing to remove all of the plastic under the wood chips. Gundlach stated typically plastic is not included in the numbers, and that removal of the plastic would reduce the amount of hardcover down to 48 percent. Mr.Ingvalson stated he would also be agreeable to remove some cement around a corner of the house and some pavers along the existing garage. PAGE 19 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3065,MARK AND BONNIE HECTOR, CONTINUED) Staff recommends approval of variances to rebuild and reconfigure the lakeside deck with the stipulation that the previous levels of structural coverage and hardcover not be increased with the rebuild. Rahn inquired whether the plan has been revised to meet Staff's recommendations. Mr.Hector indicated that is correct. Rahn inquired whether there would be any increase in hardcover or structural coverage with the revised plan. , Hector indicated there would not be. Hector noted the plastic has already been removed. Curtis stated the plastic was removed and a revised survey was received this afternoon showing the removal. Rahn called for public comment. There were no public comments regarding this application. Bremer indicated she is fine with the proposal. Fritzler inquired what the revised plan does to the hardcover square footage. Curtis stated the applicants would not exceed the hardcover that was approved in 2001,which is 4.7 percent. Jurgens stated if the hardcover and structural coverage are not being increased above what was previously approved,why it is necessary for the Planning Commission to vote on this item. Curtis indicated the applicants are rebuilding the entire deck. Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3065,D.Mark and Bonnie Hector,3265 Carman Road,granting of a structural coverage variance and hardcover variances to reconstruct a deck with the stipulation that the previous levels of structural coverage and hardcover not be increased with the rebuild. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. PAGE 21 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE,CONTINUED) Rouse stated the eight-foot walls are located on the backside of the house up above the two windows and would remain at eight foot,with the same load-bearing wall going down the middle of the house being utilized. Rahn inquired whether the house is being demolished down to the cap. Rouse stated no walls would be removed,with two-foot walls being added on top of the eight-foot walls. Rouse indicated the walls are presently 2' by 4' and would be made into 2'by 6'. Rahn inquired whether an engineer is designing the walls. Rouse stated there is. Rahn pointed out as a result of the addition of the two-foot wall,there would be a hinge in the wall. Rouse indicated he is aware of that and that every third 2' by 4' would be continuous. Bremer commented this is similar to a property being rebuilt currently on Shadywood. Bremer noted the Planning Commission did allow the property owners in that instance to remove the roof of a rambler and construct a second floor. Bremer stated it is a tough call at times to decide whether this is a rebuild or a remodel. Rouse stated financially he considers it a remodel. Rahn inquired whether the two-story area is in a conforming location. Curtis stated there is one portion encroaching into the 0-75'zone,with the deck remaining as well. Rahn noted the encroachment is due to erosion. Rouse stated there would be no addition within the encroachment. Rouse stated one side of the house was built in the early 1900's,with the other side of the house being constructed in 1984. Rouse indicated the addition is going over the house that was built later. Rahn inquired whether there is a door on the side of the house that abuts the alley. Rouse stated there is not. Rouse indicated there are steps off the deck in that area. Leslie noted there is a substantial amount of hardcover on the lot, and questioned if this would be considered a rebuild,would the amount of hardcover be approved. PAGE 23 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE, CONTINUED) Rahn inquired whether the lake view wall is going to remain as is. Rouse stated some of the windows currently exist and some will be added. Leslie stated if this were considered a rebuild,the Planning Commission would require some reductions in hardcover. Leslie stated in his opinion the Planning Commission would require the removal of the plastic,removal of the concrete,as well as a reduction in the blacktop along the side of the existing garage. Jurgens stated the deck in front of the cottage could also be removed. Jurgens inquired whether there is plumbing in the little shed. Rouse stated there is. Jurgens inquired whether there is a conditional use permit for the plumbing. Rouse stated he is not able to answer that. Gaffron stated if the plumbing was pre-existing prior to the requirement of a conditional use permit,it probably does not have one. Gaffron stated the plumbing in accessory buildings conditional use permit has only been in existence for approximately five years. Rouse pointed out the entryway is from the west side. Jurgens noted a lot of the driveway is within the alley and is not being included in the hardcover calculations. Rouse stated he has a concern since Highwood is a very dark,narrow road and that he prefers to back into the blacktop space from a safety perspective. Rouse stated the road is at approximately a 960' elevation and is reduced to 944'by the walkway. Rouse stated the water that comes through that area following a heavy rain is four to eight inches. Jurgens inquired what the shed is used for. Jurgens noted the shed is considered hardcover and that if it is not used frequently,it could perhaps be eliminated. Rouse stated it is used as a guesthouse and he would like to retain it. Rouse indicated he does not want to disrupt the vegetation below the wooden walkway given the water runoff in that area. Fritzler stated there is excessive hardcover on this lot and that the applicant needs to reduce some of it. Fritzler indicated in his opinion some of the driveway could also be removed. Fritzler noted that gravel is considered hardcover. • PAGE 25 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3066 WILLIAM AND ANITA ROUSE, CONTINUED) could accommodate two cars and that the maneuver out of the garage with the applicant's suggested removal of hardcover would become much more difficult. Rouse stated he would prefer to lose the hardcover in the driveway area rather than further up on the lot. Rouse stated he would like to make one walkway coming from the garage rather than coming down the slope. Jurgens moved,Leslie seconded,to recommend approval of Application#04-3066,William and Anita Rouse,4051 Highwood Road,granting of a side setback variance and a lake setback variance in order to reorient the roof of the house and the garage,with the stipulation that hardcover will be reduced to a level of 33 percent in the 75'-250' zone and 12.65 percent in the 0-75',with the understanding there will be some reduction in the amount of blacktop in the alley. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. 10. #04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION ON BEHALF OF DENNIS AND AMANDA WALSH,. 1354 REST POINT LANE—VARIANCES,8:47 p.m.—9:28 p.m. Dennis and Amanda Walsh,Applicants,were present. Gundlach stated the applicants are requesting a hardcover variance to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75'-250' zone when 25' percent is allowed. Currently there is almost 45 percent hardcover in the 75'-250' area. The property consists of.72 acres. Gundlach indicated the property received an after-the-fact hardcover variance for a deck in 1999,with approval of a 29.9 percent hardcover. Staff recommends approval of the hardcover request to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75'-250' zone with the following stipulations: 1. The wood chip area located in the southeast corner of the lot and following the eastern lot line (not shown on the surveys)shall be re-vegetated with grass or the fabric liner shall be removed to allow water infiltration. 2. The wood timber walls and rock borders that have appeared since the 1999 variance approval shall be removed as shown on the removal plan attached as Exhibit G. 3. The landscape rock shown on the proposed survey and labeled as"not hardcover"must be removed as the existing rock has become compacted. PAGE 27 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION, CONTINUED) Walsh stated that area is designated for guest parking. Fritzler pointed out that guests could park in the driveway if the applicant's cars were in the garage. Walsh indicated at certain times of the year he has a number of guests and that there is not ample parking space in the driveway. Walsh stated the snow kills the grass in that area every year and that he does not get much use out of that area due to the amount of snow stored there. Kempf inquired whether that is the same area that Staff is recommending replacement of the rock. Gundlach stated she is recommending that the rock that is there now not remain since it has become compacted. Gundlach indicated the City plows in that direction because if they came from the other direction,they would deposit the snow in his driveway. Gundlach stated she is not recommending that area be landscaped but that new landscape rock should be placed there to allow water permeation. Rahn noted the applicant does not want to improve that area if the snowplows are going to continue to use that area for snow storage. Rahn stated he does not see a way for the snowplow truck to not dump the snow in that area given the corner. Winkey commented it is likely that the new landscape rock would get compacted. Walsh stated whatever is put down in that area is going to get scraped out of that area by the plows. Fritzler suggested the snowplows come from the other direction. Gundlach indicated that would then deposit the snow in the applicant's driveway. Walsh stated the road in that area is so tight that it makes it difficult for the snowplows to maneuver the corner. Fritzler stated in his opinion the rock should be removed to reduce the hardcover and that if the applicant parks cars in that area,it would become hardcover. Fritzler stated in his view the Public Works Department should store the snow elsewhere. Jurgens stated the snow is an issue for Public Works and that they need to do something else with the snow since they are encroaching onto the applicant's property right now. Jurgens stated the Planning Commission needs to deal with the hardcover on this lot and that the Public Works Department needs to address the snow storage. Leslie stated the Planning Commission could acknowledge that Public Works has to dump snow there and that any efforts to make that area not hardcover would be a short-term solution. Leslie suggested that area PAGE 29 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION, CONTINUED) Fritzler stated in his opinion the Public Works Department should deal with the snow in another way,but that as long as the applicant is going to utilize that area for parking,it should be counted as hardcover. Bremer stated she does not want to have a situation where the City is taking advantage of people because they are living in a particular location or where the Planning Commission is committing the City to doing something other than what has been done for years and years. Bremer indicated she does not feel comfortable requiring the Public Works Department to do something different in this area and that she would prefer to keep the situation status quo and perhaps revisit the issue in the future. Bremer stated she would be interested to hear any recommendations Staff might have for hardcover removals. Bremer stated in her view it does not make sense to replace the rock if it is going to be compacted again in a year or two. Jurgens inquired how that area would become compacted if only snow is put in that area. Bremer stated if rock is put down in that area,people would more than likely park there. Jurgens stated he does have an issue with putting something in that area that could potentially be destroyed and that perhaps it is necessary to have Public Works at the meeting to answer questions. Jurgens stated he feels very strongly that this hardcover needs to be removed,noting it was approved at 29.9 percent. Jurgens pointed out the area near the bluff was not included in the calculations. Gundlach indicated the survey that was approved for the building permit in 1989 required the rock southerly of the 250' lake setback be removed and the rock northerly of the 250' lake setback could remain as the lot fully conformed with all hardcover standards. The variance in 1999 allowed access hardcover. Rahn noted there could perhaps be a removal of hardcover between the edge of that area towards the home. Rahn stated the applicant needs a method of swaling water around the lower doors and that the timbers constitute less hardcover than boulders and are also less intrusive. Jurgens noted there is a hump farther down that holds the water back and that it might be a grading issue. Rahn inquired whether the wing wall would be addressed at another time. Gaff on stated the addition is going on the west side of the house so that area of the lawn may not be addressed as a part of this project unless required by the City. Rahn stated he is willing to leave the little wing wall for deflection of water given the small amount of hardcover that it constitutes and also because the applicant has indicated he is willing to do other hardcover reductions. PAGE 31 MINUTES OF TICE ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. (#04-3067 LECY CONSTRUCTION,CONTINUED) Gundlach stated they could consult with the Public Works Director on the amount of gravel needed for this area. Winkey stated he is willing to make concessions for snow storage but not for parking in that area. Walsh stated he would also be glad to meet with the person who does the plowing in that area to see whether they can arrive at some type of solution. Gaffron stated the area of the gravel in the 75-250' zone was probably traded with the 250'-500' zone. Gaffron stated his recollection of the 1999 approval is that the curb cut was maxed out at 20 feet and that he does not recall snow being an issue in that prior approval. Gaffron stated the road is narrow and the snow needs to be stored somewhere. Rahn stated the more logical location for the snow is near the corner rather than in the middle of the road. Jurgens suggested including as a condition that the area for the snow storage be minimized per Public Works'recommendations based on the amount of area they detennine is required for snow storage. Jurgens moved to recommend approval of Application#04-3067,Lecy Construction on behalf of Dennis and Amanda Walsh, 1354 Rest Point Circle,granting of a hardcover variance to permit 29.89 percent hardcover within the 75-250' zone,with the stipulations as listed in the November 15,2004 Planner's Report,with the understanding that condition No.3 will be revised to say that the amount of hardcover required in that area for snow storage will be reduced to a minimum as determined by the Public Works Department and that Condition No.6 will be changed to say that a final inspection will not be given until approval of a bluff restoration plan. Fritzler inquired whether it must be landscaped in such a way as to prevent parking. Kempf stated he does not see it as being possible. Jurgens stated he would like minimum size and location for snow removal in the motion. Bremer inquired whether the wall would remain. Jurgens amended his motion to include removal of the wing wall and retaining walls near the bluff area. Jurgens stated in his view the runoff in the area of the wing wall is a grading issue. Fritzler seconded the motion. PAGE 33 MINUTES OF'1'11E ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Monday,November 15,2004 6:00 o'clock p.m. 12. OTHER ISSUES FOR DISCUSSION Gaffron noted a work session has been scheduled for December 1st. Gaffron stated signage would be on the agenda. Gaffron indicated a date has not been scheduled for a joint work session with the Council. 13. PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR OCTOBER 18 AND NOVEMBER 3,2004 Jurgens moved,Fritzler seconded,to approve the minutes of the October 18 and November 3,2004 Planning Commission meetings as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 7 Nays 0 14. SELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS ON NOVEMBER 22 AND DECEMBER 13,2004 November 22—Winkey December 13—Leslie ADJOURNMENT Rahn moved,Bremer seconded,to adjourn the meeting at 9:35 p.m. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0. There being no further business to discuss,the meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m. David Rahn,Chair PAGE 35