HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/21/2015 Planning Commission Minutes �
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� i,- MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 21,2015
6:30 o'clock p.m.
ROLL CALL
The Orono Planning Commission met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present:
Chair Denise Leskinen, Commissioners Kevin Landgraver,Bruce Lemke, Loren Schoenzeit, John
Thiesse and Alternate Janice Berg. Representing Staff were Community Development Director Jeremy
Barnhart, Senior Planner Michael Gaffron, City Planner Melanie Curtis, and Recorder Jackie Young.
City Council Member Aaron Printup was present.
Chair Leskinen opened the meeting at 6:30 p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
CONSENT AGENDA
*1. APPROVAL OF PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF
AUGUST 17,2015
Lemke moved,Berg seconded,to approve the minutes of the Orono Planning Commission meeting
of August 17,2015,as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
OLD BUSINESS
2. #15-3774 MICHAEL STEADMAN ON BEHALF OF IRWIN JACOBS, 1700
SHORELINE DRIVE,PRELIMINARY PLAT,6:35 P.M.—7:35 P.M.
Michael Steadman, Applicant,was present.
Gaffron stated the proposal is to split off three 2-acre lots from the northerly portion of the 31-acre site.
The property is intended to be accessed via an extension of Heritage Road, which is a public road.
At its August meeting,the Planning Commission reviewed the proposed subdivision and heard comments
from the public regarding the potential impacts of the development on the Fo�ill neighborhood. The
primary issue appeared to be the impacts of the construction process.
Following discussion,the Planning Commission tabled the application after providing the applicant's
representative with a number of recommendations for action and information to provide prior to the
continuation of the review on September 21.
The applicant has submitted a number of items in order to address the Planning Commission's requests
and as revised and updated his plans as follows:
1. The wetland buffer widths are confirmed and depicted. These do not appear to cause any
proposed lot to be unbuildable.
2. The proposed tree preservation areas are depicted on the preliminary plat drawings.
3. An updated Conservation Design Report has been submitted.
4. The proposed driveway locations are depicted.
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5. Minor grading of building pads has been depicted for proposed Lots 1 and 2. The grading will be
done on an individual basis by the building contractor.
6. Staff has reviewed the bluff analyses and concurs with the applicant's bluff depiction.
The applicant has revised the preliminary plat drawing to show three narrow lakeshore outlots south of
Shoreline Drive for potential boat dockage. The actual future use of these outlots would require a
separate approval process from the City and LMCD. The intent of the outlots is to allow each of the three
new lots an option to have boat storage on Smith's Bay for boats that would not be able to pass under the
Tanager Lake bridge.
With regard to the Foxhill neighborhood concerns about construction access,the applicant's engineer is in
the process of depicting the fill corridor that would be required to establish a temporary construction
access driveway from the south based on maintaining a maximum grade of 10 percent. Gaffron stated he
will let the applicant address the temporary access in more detail.
It is Staffls belief that while a temporary access is possible, it is not the preferred access. Use of Heritage
Lane for construction access is preferred, and the applicant has suggested three construction operation
parameters to limit the impact on the neighborhood:
l. Create a parking area on the properly for all construction vehicles, which would eliminate parking
on Heritage Lane,with signage placed to notify all contractors.
2. Restricting construction hours. The actual times when construction would be allowed is open to
discussion, but City Code construction activity hours are generally limited to 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. on
weekdays and 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. on weekends and holidays. The applicant is suggesting weekday
construction activity be limited to 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. The applicant has not suggested times for
weekend construction activity.
3. Street cleaning on a daily basis.
The Planning Commission should review the newly submitted materials and discuss remaining issues of
concern. The public hearing should be reopened to receive additional comments from the public.
Gaffron noted there is a 120-day limit to review this application, and if the Planning Commission elects to
table it again, it would require the applicant to agree to an extension.
Leskinen asked if the building pads will be graded on an individual basis to determine number of stories.
Gaffron stated this application is similar to Creekside and Oliver Hill, where the City established a
grading plan for how the grading would be developed in the future. In this particular situation, the City
would use the grading plan for defining whether or not a building meets the story or basement definition.
The initial grading would be used as the official grade to make those calculations.
Michael Steadman, Applicant, stated he would like to talk about the revised plan the Planning
Commission requested. Steadman stated the revised plan addresses the 29 acres and how that temporary
access road could dramatically impact the property.
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Steadman noted they were required to do a Conservation Design Report, which has been completed and is
very extensive. The purpose of the report is to protect the wetlands,the woodlands, and vegetation.
Steadman stated if a temporary access road is required, in his opinion that report would be non-effective.
Steadman indicated he has been selling real estate in Orono for 30 years, and one of the great pleasures is
being able to communicate the difference between Orono and other cities in the Metro. Steadman stated
the City's legacy are the acreage sites ranging from one acre on up.
Steadman stated the first photograph on the overhead depicts Shoreline Drive. Irwin Jacobs owns
approximately 750 feet along Shoreline Drive. The only access is the driveway to the east. Steadman
pointed out the sharp curve coming from the west. Due to the wetlands,this is the only driveway access
to the site.
Steadman stated they have done a pretty complete analysis of the property and that they have looked at
two alternative access sites. One possible access considered was over by the guest house and the other
was the existing driveway. As it relates to the first option, as you go to the west,there is a 20 percent
slope,which would make it extremely difficult to maneuver.
Steadman stated the best temporary access that could possibly be used would be the main driveway. The
temporary access would come behind the house but there is a 40-foot drop from the edge of the driveway
to the proposed cul-de-sac, which is a dramatic drop. There is also a natural buffer between the 20-acre
site that is being proposed for the main residence and the three lots, which is crucial for keeping the
integrity of the property. Steadman pointed out where the temporary access would cut through the woods.
Steadman indicated he does have a drawing that shows the grade limits, the impact,and how many trees
would need to be removed as a result of the temporary access. Steadman noted the drawing shows the
main residence, the driveway, and the nine acres that are full of maple trees,cherry trees, linden trees,
hackberry trees,the wetlands, and the trail system.
Steadman stated he would like to talk now about the impact a temporary access would have. The
temporary access would result in an 1,800 foot temporary driveway compared to the 350-foot driveway
that is being proposed onto Heritage Lane from Foxhill. Steadman noted there is a very dangerous left
turn into the property.
Steadman stated he also went out to the property with Doug Dobosinski of Dobosinski & Sons,who gave
a recommendation that was submitted to the City. In his view grading trucks, dump trucks and cement
trucks would have a difficult time maneuvering down the driveway, particularly in the steep slopes.
Steadman stated when you look at the access point that would be carved in, which is essentially where the
Jacobs' driveway ends and the cul-de-sac begins,there would need to be a 10 percent grade or a 12
percent grade. That would result in the removal of 127 trees and disturbing an area of approximately
25,000 square feet or half an acre. The amount of cut would be 150 cubic yards and the amount of fill
required would be 1,500 cubic yards. In addition, erosion control would be a significant problem.
Steadman stated the impact to Lots 2 and 3 would also be dramatic. Steadman noted the proposed homes
are 600 feet from the Foxhill neighborhood, and as a result of the temporary access,those homes would
be looking at an open area that has been dramatically changed from the natural topography.
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Steadman stated they do have a couple of recommendations that they would like the Planning
Commission and the neighbors to consider. The Foxhill neighborhood currently has two vacant lots at the
end of the cul-de-sac. The lots are approximately one acre apiece. Steadman stated those lots will
someday be sold and developed and that he is not sure if there are covenants or restrictions over those two
lots. The first recommendation would be to create a separate parking area beyond the Jacobs' property
for all construction vehicles; two, limit the construction hours during the week and on the weekends from
8:30 to 4:30 where normally the contractors are allowed from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. during the week; and three,
provide street sweeping at the end of the day once the construction is finished.
Steadman stated he would ask the Planning Commission to vote on the application tonight.
Landgraver asked approximately how many trees will need to be removed for the temporary parking lot.
Steadman indicated they will attempt to stay within the area of the proposed cul-de-sac and within the
driveways to the individual lots.
Lemke asked if there would be any time frame for construction.
Steadman stated that is difficult to say since it would depend on when the lots are sold and the preference
of the property owner. Steadman stated he would propose doing the construction while the kids are in
school and that in his view that is reasonable.
Berg asked if it would be year-round construction.
Steadman stated it would be for the homes.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 6:49 p.m.
Steven Byrnes, 1025 Heritage Lane, stated he is the president of the Foxhill Homeowners Association and
that he is here tonight representing the 14 homeowners. Byrnes stated they do not oppose Mr.Jacobs
developing his land or the extension of the road but that the contention is around the construction access.
Mr. Steadman's proposal tonight shows that a temporary road access is possible but comes down to a
question of burden and inconvenience. Byrnes stated the way this is being proposed is that the entire
burden is falling on the entire 17 property owners in Foxhill.
Byrnes stated he is in agreement that access onto County Road 15 is dangerous and that traffic is
continuing to get together. Byrnes stated when you add the 17 homes that are trying to get in and out, it is
a huge inconvenience and a huge risk. Byrnes stated he totally agrees and supports the idea of preserving
the wetlands and trees but that the City also has a responsibility to preserve the lives of the people who
live in this community.
Byrnes stated the alternative road is viable and that he did not hear anything that said it was not viable.
The question becomes whether Mr. Jacobs should bear the burden or whether the burden should be on the
homeowners. Byrnes noted the City will continue to receive benefits from all the permits and tax dollars
associated with this development. In addition, Mr. Jacobs will receive the benefit of receiving millions of
dollars for his land.
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Byrnes stated it is logical to assume this will be a three to five-year project and that the local residents
will face years of inconvenience with no residual value being returned to the residents. Byrnes stated he
would request the alternative route be explored.
Matt Mithun, 1160 Heritage Lane, stated he would echo the comments made by Mr. Byrnes. Mithun
stated the burden being placed upon the residents is the biggest issue and that it is a matter of equity in the
end. Mithun indicated there are 17 kids in the neighborhood and that it will probably involve five or six
years of construction. Mithun stated the residents really have no issue with the development itself but that
they hope everyone takes a good look at the imbalance.
Bruce Flessner, 1190 Heritage Lane, stated he realizes the outlots are not an issue tonight,but if the
Planning Commission thought about where the docks are going to go on the lake,the only place to get
access to those would be via Green Tree or Heritage Lane. Flessner stated he has asked about that and he
was told that access from the other three lots could happen because there could be trails produced or the
opportunity to use golf carts or other things. Flessner stated what he has heard tonight is that they cannot
make accommodations for the construction process, but that he would like to know what the access
process is going to be in the future when the docks are considered. Flessner questioned how it can be to
their benefit when they want to sell lots to have access to the main lake but when it comes to the
protection of the rest of the neighborhood, the burden seems to be excessive.
Kelly Kromer, 1005 Heritage Lane, stated he is against the building of the road period and not just for
construction. Kromer stated the person who bears the greatest burden is himself, followed by Dennis
Libby since they have the most land that borders the easement. If you divide that by the acreage,
Mr. Jacobs is bearing a very insignificant burden and all the benefit.
Kromer stated nothing new is being presented and that the temporary road is completely viable. Kromer
stated it is not a surprise that the people who work for Mr. Jacobs find the existing driveway a better route
than the alternative road. Kromer stated there is a serious conflict of interest there.
Sarah Mithun, 1160 Heritage Lane, stated they have three of the 17 children that will be affected by the
construction and that she thought it would be prudent to show their faces. Mithun stated she would
second the opinions of those in the neighborhood who will be affected by the construction traffic and the
concerns regarding the safety of the children in the neighborhood. Mithun stated the last time they were
here for a very long time, but that they feel very,very strongly about this construction issue and that they
hope the Planning Commission takes the residents' thoughts and concerns into consideration.
Matt Mithun asked how the 350 and 1,800 feet were measured.
Steadman stated the 350 feet would be the length of the road coming off the existing driveway.
Mithun stated the overall environmental argument is kind of weak since they are talking about
construction and development versus the safety of all the families in the neighborhood.
Greg Coward, 1950 Heritage Drive, stated last week he asked a person who was involved with heavy
trucking in Alaska what he thought about slopes and negotiating slopes up and down with trucks. That
person stated it is clearly a problem both ways. Going up a hill you can have trucks with more
horsepower and six or eight wheel drive,which can help solve that. Going down, if there is a slippery
slope,there may be a problem, but one simple solution is to load the truck up with a full load. Coward
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stated he has not seen the packet and what the objection issues were with negotiating the slopes, but that
there may be some fairly simple solutions to that that would alleviate any safety issues.
Mark Gronberg, Surveyor, stated he is concerned with the slope of the road and that a 12 percent slope is
very extreme for construction traffic. Gronberg noted the rest of the road is eight or nine percent but that
there is one section where it would be at 12 percent.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 7:00 p.m.
Lemke stated his main concern is the amount of traffic going onto the road. Lemke asked whether there
is any way to alleviate that, such as a temporary stop sign or a flag man on Shoreline.
Gaffron stated the only solution would be to have the county approve a flag man with people at either end
and that he is not sure whether the county would approve that.
Lemke stated if that was possible,that would help to mitigate some of the traffic.
Leskinen stated she would like to go through the list of issues outlined in Staff's report, but the biggest
issue is access. Leskinen stated the other punch list of items seems to have been addressed by the
applicant.
Leskinen stated as it relates to the access, she is wondering if anyone's views on the Commission have
changed given the information that was provided. Leskinen stated she has read through the entire report
and it indicated that the level of the slope could make it a dangerous situation for the trucks. The other
concern is the safety of the residents.
Leskinen stated in her view it seems impractical to bring in loads and loads of fill as well as cut down
more than 100 trees to create an access road that could be very dangerous for trucks but that she is not
sure what the answer is. Leskinen stated she appreciates the effort that was expended to explore that
alternative, and that the compromises the developer is proposing, such as the reduction in the hours of
operation as well as the onsite parking, are definitely huge steps forward. Leskinen stated she is not sure
how much more the Planning Commission can build on that but that she is open to some input.
Thiesse noted at the last meeting he said he wanted every consideration to be made for a temporary road
on the Jacobs' property and that in his view that has taken place. Thiesse indicated he has walked the site
and it is very steep. Thiesse stated they would lose 126 trees for the temporary road and then lose all the
other trees for the main road. Thiesse stated he also has a concern for the 17 children, and while a
temporary construction road is doable, he is not sure it is ideal.
Lemke asked how many trucks per week and size are anticipated. Lemke stated the impression he has
gotten from the residents is that it will be a constant flow of trucks but that he is assuming the majority of
the trucks will be pickups.
Steadman stated it is difficult to give a number, but once the trucks are there, the trucks will typically
remain on the site during the construction. Steadman stated in his view they are trying to make a
compromise with the construction hours and street sweeping. Steadman indicated they will also provide
signage at the entrance so the contractors are aware of the hours. Steadman stated in his opinion it will be
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less of an impact from a total perspective if the trucks are going down 300 feet of access rather than
creating 1,800 feet of access.
Lemke stated he is interested in knowing about the impact on the residents.
Steadman stated if you look at some of the other neighborhoods in Orono that have been developed, such
as Graham Hills,which has 2-acre lots with 15 or 17 homes on a cul-de-sac,that was managed very well.
Steadman noted there will only be three lots under construction. Steadman stated as it relates to the
timing, nobody can say when the lots will sell and that it is possible they could sell very quickly and
construction could be done within a year. Once the homes are under construction,the building sites will
be 500 to 600 feet away from the neighborhood.
Leskinen stated in other words it does not sound like there will be gravel trucks going back and forth
every half hour or hour.
Schoenzeit stated there will likely be hundreds of truck trips but that they would be spread out over the
course of the project. Schoenzeit stated the other problem is whether the temporary road could be built to
handle the necessary weight loads. Schoenzeit stated it is not clear what the cost of that project would be
but that it likely will be substantial. Schoenzeit stated in his view an alternative road is not doable for
construction traffic.
Berg commented this project will also involve trucks delivering materiaL Berg asked if the developer
could schedule the deliveries so they are at a certain time of the day. Berg stated having a set schedule
for deliveries would be beneficial.
Steadman stated they can do their best to put a schedule together but that it will likely not be definite
since they have to deal with other people's schedules as well.
Schoenzeit asked Mr. Steadman if he will be the builder of the homes.
Steadman indicated he will not be.
Landgraver stated since there are concerns with the children and school buses and delivery vehicles, it
seems reasonable to limit the vehicles delivering large loads to times when the children are in school.
Steadman stated they are proposing 8:30 to 4:30 and that they are open to working on that.
Landgraver stated that would be another thing to do to be responsive to the neighbors.
Lemke asked whether he would be willing to avoid working during the holidays and on weekends.
Steadman stated he would propose the same time on the weekends.
Greg Coward asked whether that would include Sundays.
Leskinen requested the conversation be confined to the Planning Commissioner. Leskinen asked if
Heritage Lane is a 4-ton road.
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Gaffron stated he is not sure whether it is a 4-ton road or not but that he would guess in the fall it gets
posted the same as the rest of the neighborhood roads. Gaffron stated there is a risk of the roads being
damaged anytime there is construction and that the City would expect the developer to fix whatever is
damaged.
Leskinen stated if it is a 4-ton road, which it likely would be,that would limit construction during the
spring.
Gaffron stated he would like to separate the construction of the road from the building of the homes.
Gaffron asked how long the developer anticipates construction of the cul-de-sac will take.
Steadman stated a lot of it depends on the weather and the time of the year, but if they get started in April
or May, he would assume it would be complete in two to three months.
Leskinen stated after that it would involve the building of the three homes and that it appears the biggest
impact will be for a few months while the cul-de-sac is being constructed.
Thiesse asked if it is a borrow site for the cul-de-sac or an excess site.
Gronberg indicated the cul-de-sac has some cut in it and some of the starts to the homes. Gronberg stated
they should be able to use the dirt on site.
Thiesse noted there will be no trucks hauling any dirt out or in but that there will be some concrete trucks
hauling in concrete and bituminous. Thiesse stated that should not result in a lot of trucks.
Leskinen stated she would like to have some type of schedule for when that will be delivered to the extent
possible.
Steadman stated their objective is to build it as quickly as they can.
Leskinen stated it appears the Planning Commission is leaning towards not requiring the temporary
accessroad.
Landgraver stated the residents have been very adamant with their safety concerns but that there would be
larger environmental impact with the temporary road,which is something the City might want to avoid.
Landgraver stated he also is leaning towards not requiring a construction road.
Landgraver noted the other issue that was raised concerned the outlots,but that the outlots for lake access
is not something the City of Orono would be involved with.
Gaffron stated that is something that came up at the last minute, although it was discussed months ago
with the possibility that it was not necessarily intended that someone would have land access from these
three lots but would take a smaller boat around to where those larger boats would be docked on Shoreline.
Steadman stated their objective is property owners with a larger boat who cannot get under the Tanager
Bridge would have the ability to dock a boat at one of those docks on Smith Bay. Steadman stated there
are outlots on the neighboring property to the east in the Green Trees neighborhood,which are very
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similar except these will be larger. Steadman indicated these outlots would be over 200 feet and parking
would be strictly by boat access.
Lemke noted that is a separate issue and the Planning Commission is not looking at that tonight.
Leskinen asked if the Planning Commission desires any additional infarmation from the applicant.
Schoenzeit stated the majority of the neighborhood has stipulated they are okay with the development and
that it looks like the developer will make his best efforts to make some accommodations around the
construction process. Schoenzeit stated when you consider property rights, the accommodations are as
much as the Planning Commission can ask for.
Leskinen stated she read through the Conservation Design Report and that in her view it is well thought
out and the Planning Commission does not need anything more with that.
Lemke stated in his view the temporary road does not make much sense from a conservation standpoint or
from a safety standpoint, but that he would encourage the developer to talk to the residents and provide
them with the details.
It was the consensus of the Planning Commission that a temporary access road should not be required.
Thiesse asked if the City has any experts that can become involved with the traffic issues. Thiesse stated
one thing that works on large construction sites is the three to seven mile an hour speed limit.
Gaffron stated Staff can ask the City's engineers to comment on it and that they may have a traffic expert
on staf£ Gaffron stated in his view the limitations on hours is important and that the engineer could look
at the speed limit or signage. Gaffron indicated Staff will discuss that with the city engineers to see if
they can address it.
Leskinen stated in her view it is an important recommendation but that it is not something to hold the
application up for.
Lemke stated he would still like to see some exploration of some type of traffic control on Shoreline
Drive.
Gaffron questioned whether construction work should be allowed on Sundays.
Landgraver stated he does like the suggestion to not have construction on Sunday and that in his view that
would be a good compromise. Landgraver stated it sounds like the homeowners association is impressed
with how reasonable the developer is, but that in his view there are some smaller details that could be
discussed with the residents, such as signage and hours.
Thiesse stated if no construction is allowed on Sundays,the residents should be aware that the project
may be slightly extended.
Leskinen stated she echoes those comments and would strongly encourage the residents to enter into a
dialogue with the developer.
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Mithun stated encouraging dialogue with the developer is a nice idea but that is all it is. Mithun stated if
the application goes to the Council and approves it,there is no incentive for the developer to talk to them.
Leskinen stated it is not something that will be enforced but it is something that the Planning Commission
is encouraging in an effort to resolve some of the issues.
Mithun stated it is a good idea but that he does not see the incentive for the developer to do that.
Schoenzeit stated he hopes the developer sees it as common sense and good business.
Thiesse noted there are two council members present tonight and that they are also hearing this
discussion.
Berg stated the City Council can also recommend the same thing.
Thiesse asked if there should be a larger escrow if there is going to be regular street sweeping.
Gaffron stated there will be a development agreement and a letter of credit required that is typically 150
percent of the cost of the development. Gaffron stated for a project this size,the City would likely be
looking at approximately a$20,000 escrow. The intent of the escrow is if the developer does not do
things that need to be done,the City can draw from those funds.
Thiesse moved,Landgraver seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3774,
Michael Steadman on behalf of Irwin Jacobs, 1700 Shoreline Drive,granting of preliminary plat,
subject to conditions 1,2,and 3 outlined in the developer's letter dated September 16,2015;with
the recommendation there be no construction on Sundays,with the hours of construction being
limited to 8 a.m.to 4:30 p.m.,during the week,with same hours on Saturday; subject to the City
involving a safety expert to review the traffic issues; and with the recommendation the developer
and residents discuss the project regularly,VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
NEW BUSINESS
3. #15-3725 DALE GUSTAFSON ON BEHALF OF DOUGLAS AND ROBAN SMITH,
4195,4175,AND 4167 HIGHWOOD ROAD,CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND VARIANCE,
7:35 p.m.—7:41 P.M.
Dale Gustafson, Applicant,was present.
Curtis stated the applicant is requesting a conditional use permit and setback variance to allow sub-grade
retaining walls within 75 feet of the lake and potentially exceeding the allowed 50 cubic yards of earth
movement in order to allow re-grading of the slope and to stabilize a substantial portion of the lakeshore
bank involving each of the properties. Retaining walls are not permitted encroachments in the lake yard
and require a variance.
Staff finds that the proposal appears to be reasonable and consistent with similar properties in the
neighborhood. The applicant has addressed or mitigated any negative visual impacts resulting from the
restoration with new vegetation. The setback variance is necessary as the critical area of repair is in such
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close proximity to the OWHL of the lake and is reasonable, consistent with the Comprehensive Plan, and
will not alter the character of the area.
The applicant has provided an engineered plan which contemplates the installation of sub-grade walls to
support the slope in the areas of failure across all three properties. Soil will be placed over the walls
resulting in a more stable slope and will be revegetated to reinforce the soil. Once the vegetation
establishes and matures, the restoration area and the reinforcement should not be visible.
The City Engineer has reviewed the applicants' plan and supplementary information. All concerns have
been addressed with the most recent plan and information.
City Staff has done an analysis of the applicable requirements for issuance of a conditional use permit.
Staffls findings are outlined in the Staff report. If the Planning Commission has questions,the criteria
should be discussed.
Staff recommends approval of the application subject to compliance with the requirements of the
Minnehaha Creek Watershed District. The Planning Commission should discuss the issues outlined in
Staffls report,open the public hearing, and then make a recommendation to the City Council.
Curtis displayed an aerial of the properties.
Thiesse asked if there is any reason at this time the City should get involved with the city-owned property
that is adjacent to this property.
Curtis stated the City may potentially if it will provide an opportunity for some cooperative restoration
but that has not been addressed by the City Engineer.
Dale Gustafson stated he had nothing to add to Staff's report.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 7: 38 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 7:38 p.m.
Leskinen stated the report appears to be very straight forward and that she does not have a problem with
it. Leskinen stated in her view it will help protect the slope from future failure, and if there is no visual
impact, she does not see any reason why the applicants should not move forward with it.
Lemke moved,Thiesse seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3725,Dale
Gustafson on behalf of Douglas and Roban Smith,4195,4175,and 4167 Highwood Road,granting
of a conditional use permit and setback variance. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
4. #15-3761 RIDGE CREEK CUSTOM HOMES,4775 NORTH SHORE DRIVE,
VACATION,7:41 P.M.—7:49 P.M.
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6:30 o'clock p.m.
Curtis stated the applicants are requesting vacation of the portion of Lake Street that abuts the southerly
boundary of the property and is parallel and adjacent to the shoreline. Lake Street was dedicated within
the plat of Bergquist's and Wicklund's Park, Hennepin County, in 1889.
Over the years the City has vacated many of these shoreline rights-of-way while maintaining a strong
stand against vacating those alleys or fire lanes that are perpendicular to the shoreline which would
potentially provide public access to the lake from other rights-of-way further back from the lake. Other
nearby segments of Lake Street have been vacated by the City.
Lake Street was originally platted at a 20-foot width and current widths range from 24 to 29 feet.
Topographic information shown on the survey indicates the property has a very steep slope to the shore
with no terrace level at the base. As a result,vehicular travel within the right-of-way is not feasible and
pedestrian use is minimally possible at best. It is Staffls conclusion that vacating the right-of-way as
requested will have no impact on present or future public accessibility to the lake.
Curtis displayed a map depicting various similar vacations on the southeast shore of Forest Lake.
Curtis noted the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources has submitted a letter in opposition to the
proposed vacation, citing the same 1944 Minnesota Supreme Court decision that appears in the Orono
Comprehensive Plan. The DNR suggests that there are potential unknown future public uses of the right-
of-way. The DNR also cites MN Statute 412.85 l, which requires the DNR to review and evaluate the
proposal as follows:
1. The proposed vacation and the public benefits to do so;
2. The present and potential use of the land for access to public waters; and
3. How the vacation would impact conservation of natural resources.
The DNR's opposition does not preclude the City from approving the vacation. Staff would argue that
this particular right-of-way has no apparent present or future benefit to the public because of the
topography of the site. It is believed the public will benefit by the private ownership of this area because
the adjacent property owners, not the public, have a strong interest in protecting and maintaining the
immediate shoreline to prevent erosion and slope failure at this site. The City, the Count, and the State
realistically are not going to spend tax dollars maintaining this shoreline. In addition,the existence of the
platted road calls into question the property owner's right to keep a dock at the site, which has been the
primary basis for the other similar vacations occurring in the past.
Zoning Code Section 78-9 governs the vacation of streets, alleys and public grounds. In past vacation
requests the City has determined that vacation may be appropriate when the following criteria is met:
1. The vacation does not affect access to or use of any adjoining property.
2. The City has not and does not intend to develop, improve, or use the dedicated right-of-way as
road except for utilities and access purposes.
3. The unimproved dedicated right-of-way as it exists serves no public purpose.
It is Staff's opinion that the request meets the above-mentioned criteria. A review of the City's utility
maps indicates there are no City utilities within the portion of right-of-way to be vacated. The public
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utility companies were notified of the proposal in July and none have indicated any issues with the
vacation.
Staff recommends approval of the vacation application.
Thiesse asked how many lots are still available with the right-of-way. Thiesse asked why the City just
does vacate all of them at the same time.
Curtis indicated she does not have an inventory of the lots at this point.
Gaffron stated back in the 1980s,the City had a number of properties on Forest Lake that had a similar
situation. It was suggested by the City to those property owners to make application all at once, and the
City received probably 12 or 15 applications in the space of a year. Most of those were vacated. Gaffron
stated to his understanding what is left is located in various places and not groups of properties. Gaffron
stated he does not know if there is any value to grouping a number of them together. Staff could identify
them but it is unclear whether there is any great value to vacating them all at once.
Thiesse asked if they could become a risk to the City if they are not vacated.
Gaffron stated he is not sure they will be a risk to the City. Gaffron stated the City has a number of
unimproved rights-of-way that do not abut the lake, and whether they are a risk would need to be
evaluated.
Thiesse asked if someone would be allowed to camp there.
Gaffron stated probably not.
Thiesse asked if he could park his boat there.
Gaffron stated some of them have not been vacated since there has been no need to vacate them given the
steep topography. Gaffron stated some of Orono's sister cities rent that type of area out but in those
situations they have accessible shoreline.
Landgraver asked whether the City has ever denied a similar vacation.
Gaffron stated not to his knowledge.
Landgraver noted the DNR is saying the piece of property should be preserved for a what if scenario.
Gaffron stated those corridors that go down to the lake, even if they are not used at the present time, since
the City is not sure what will happen in 50 to 75 years,they should be maintained for the public who do
not own shoreline.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 7:48 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 7:48 p.m.
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Leskinen stated the City has seen a number of similar requests in the past and they have been approved.
Berg moved,Landgraver seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3761,Ridge
Creek Custom Homes,on behalf of Nancy Radermecher,4775 North Shore Drive,granting a
vacation of a portion of the Lake Street right-of-way. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
5. #15-3775 JEFF ZITZLOFF, 1380 BRIAR STREET,VARIANCES,7:49 P.M.—7:58 P.M.
Jeff Zitzloff, Applicant, was present.
Curtis stated the applicant is requesting rear, front, and side setback variances to allow construction of a
new residence. Lot area and lot width variances are also requested. The subject property is
approximately 14,000 square feet or 0.24 acre in area and is located within the RR-1 B, rural residential
district,which requires a minimum of two acres.
The applicant is proposing to construct a new single-family home on the property and is requesting lot
area, lot width,front and rear yard and side yard setback variances in order to do so. The proposed home
is proposed to be situated 20 feet from the rear lot line, 22 feet from the front lot line where 50-foot
setbacks are required, and 49 feet from the south side lot line where a 30-foot setback is required. The
home is proposed to meet the north side yard setback at 55 feet. A pool in a conforming location is also
proposed.
Staff finds practical difficulties exist to support redevelopment of this property, such as the substandard
lot area and width are not the result of actions by the landowner. The applicant is proposing to construct a
new single-family home, which is reasonable and consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. The
hardcover and structural coverage proposed meet the requirements of the Zoning Code.
Granting front, rear, and side setback variances, in addition to the lot area and lot width variances,to
redevelop this property will not merely serve as a convenience to the applicant but are necessary. The
proposed home and setbacks appear to be consistent with the goals of the Comprehensive Plan, fit the
character of the neighborhood, and do not appear to adversely impact adjacent properties.
Planning Staff recommends approval of the application. The Planning Commission should discuss the
issues outlined in Staff's report, open the public hearing, and then make a recommendation to the City
Council.
Jeff Zitzloff, Applicant, stated Staff was very good to work with and that he would ask for the Planning
Commission's support.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 7:52 p.m.
Phil Kaley, 1395 Brown Road South, stated this area is very old and was platted in the 1870s. Kaley
stated attempting to shoehorn in two acre lots is this area was ludicrous and it got to be a tremendous
waste of City employees' time. Kaley stated it is nice to see a rundown property being replaced.
Berg asked him if he is in favor of the project.
Kaley indicated he is and that it is nice to see it happening.
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Judy Sutherland, 1365 Arbor, stated she is here tonight for her son. Sutherland stated her son's property
abuts the empty lot. Sutherland asked if it will be a two-story house. Sutherland noted there is hardly any
back lot to these homes and that she is wondering if the applicant's home will be higher than her son's
home is.
Curtis pointed out Ms. Sutherland's son's home. Curtis stated the side yard is the area containing the
pool and that the proposed house is very similar to the existing house. Curtis stated the house will be
centered more in the middle of the lot than what it is currently.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 7:55 p.m.
Zitzloff stated he did speak with the neighbors and that they have signed off on the project. Zitzloff stated
Dave Sutherland's concern was the removal of some trees and the fact that there would be a lack of shade.
Zitzloff stated the proposed house should help with that and that they had a preriy good discussion about
the project.
Leskinen stated the proposal is very reasonable and is a textbook case for granting a variance.
Landgraver moved,Thiesse seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3775,
Jeff Zitzloff, 1380 Briar Street,granting of lot area and lot width variances as well as front, rear
and side setback variances. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
6. #15-3778 TODD BALAN,2905 CASCO POINT ROAD,VARIANCE,7:58 P.M.—8:02
P.M.
Todd Balan,Applicant,was present.
Curtis stated the applicant is requesting a hardcover variance in order to construct a new, detached garage
over existing nonstructural hardcover. The subject property currently has 29.79 percent hardcover in a 25
percent hardcover zone. The current structural coverage level is 10 percent. The proposal will result in
12 percent structural coverage and no net hardcover increase since they propose to remove an existing 72
square foot shed and portion of the decorative brick driveway to balance the new hardcover of the garage.
Staff finds that the existing hardcover level and home location,combined with the length and width of the
property, create practical difficulties for expanding the home or constructing a detached garage without
variances. The applicant has provided a plan which results in no additional hardcover and is below the
permitted structural coverage limitations. The existing level and current site conditions serve as a
practical difficulty.
Staff has not received any comments from the public regarding the applicant's proposal.
Planning Staff recommends approval of the application.
Thiesse asked if the structure is going to expand beyond the paving.
Curtis indicated that is correct. Curtis stated the shed will be removed as well as a portion of hardcover
adjacent to the shed.
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Leskinen asked if everything else is conforming.
Curtis stated it is.
Todd Balan,Applicant, stated he had nothing to add to Staff's report.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 8:00 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 8:00 p.m.
Thiesse noted the applicant is within his structural coverage limits.
Schoenzeit stated under the old hardcover system,this property may have been more compliant,which
goes to support the practical difficulty.
Schoenzeit moved,Lemke seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3778,Todd
Balan,2905 Casco Point Road,granting of a hardcover variance. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
(John Thiesse recused himself from Item No. 7)
7. #15-3779 KEN JENSON ON BEHALF OF TRINITY CHURCH,2060 SIXTH AVENUE
NORTH,CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND VARIANCE,8:02 P.M.—8:16 P.M.
Ken Jensen, Applicant, was present.
Gaffron stated the applicant, on behalf of Trinity Lutheran Church, is requesting approvals for the
installation of a new monument sign within their front yard along County Road 6. The new sign will
include a dual-faced electronic changeable message board. Installation of the sign requires a conditional
use permit because the church is a conditional use if in the RR-1B district. A variance to Section
78-1467(1) is also required because the area of the signage exceeds the 12 square feet per surface allowed
by code.
The current zoning code does not have sign standards for conditional uses located in a residential zone.
Within residential districts a nameplate sign with a maximum of 12 square feet per surface is permitted.
The new monument sign with the reader board should reduce or eliminate the need for temporary signage
on the property. The church is requesting 27.9 square feet,which comprises both sides of the sign.
The subject property currently has just over 50 percent hardcover. The proposed sign project will actually
reduce hardcover on the site by 12 square feet.
Gaffron displayed an aerial photograph of the existing sign. The location of the new sign will be slightly
east and slightly forward of the existing sign, while still being located ten feet back from the front lot line.
Ten feet is the standard for commercial signage, while a 5-foot setback would be allowed for residential
signage.
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The electronic reader board element of the sign is approximately 2.5 feet x 6.5' in lit area inside a black
border. This is similar in size to the read board at the Orono Schools. The design of the proposed
message board includes an automatic dimming feature that can be set to reduce the lighting intensity of
the board at night and commensurate with daytime outdoor light conditions. Use of this feature would
seem appropriate given the proximity to the surrounding residential neighborhood.
The applicants have considered the speed of traffic along County Road 6 and have indicated that having
the message change so frequently as to allow a driver to view more than one message while passing by is
not practical, and they may be willing to accept a condition that limits the frequency of the message
changes.
Staff recommends approval.
Leskinen asked what color the message board will be.
Gaffron stated the applicant will need to address that.
Ken Jenson, Trinity Church, stated approximately ten years ago,they added some improvements to the
site, including a great hall. The great hall is part of the reason for updating the signage since it is not only
used by the church but also used a lot by community groups such as the Boy Scouts and Alcoholics
Anonymous.
Jenson stated in their view the sign will serve the church and the community. Approximately 4,500 cars
go by the church every day and the sign will provide an opportunity to communicate with them.
Jenson noted the sign is the exact size as the sign for the school but the overall reader board is slightly
smaller. Jenson stated as it relates to colors,the color of the message can change and the intensity of the
lights adjusts to ambient light. Jenson stated the sign will be brighter during the day and dimmer at night.
The sign will be used to advertise community events as well as church events.
Leskinen stated her only concern was the intensity of the light, especially at night.
Lemke asked if the sign will be on 24 hours a day.
Jenson indicated it will be.
Landgraver asked if there will be any other lighting directed at the sign.
Jenson stated there will be some backlighting on Trinity Church. Jenson stated they want to be sensitive
to the motorists and the reader board will be automatically controlled to match up with ambient light.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 8:11 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 8:11 p.m.
Lemke noted Staffls report says that an illuminated flashing sign shall not be permitted. Lemke asked
what constitutes a flashing sign.
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Curtis stated a flashing sign would be something where, as someone is passing the sign,the message is
changing. Curtis indicated it would be similar to the sign on 394,which is similar to a television screen
signage that has an active animated sign. If it is a static message, it is Staffls opinion it is not flashing
since it will not be changing in the time it takes someone to drive by.
Gaffron noted Staffls report states that illuminated signs or devices giving off an intermittent, steady or
rotating beam consisting of a collection or concentration of a ray of lights shall not be permitted. Gaffron
stated a flashing sign would be similar to the cherry type light on top of a police car or a strobe light,
which are not permitted.
Barnhart stated the industry standard is generally eight seconds. If the message switches quicker than six
or eight seconds,then it could be considered a flashing sign.
Lemke asked whether that should be clarified.
Gaffron stated in his view a number of standards could be added to the City's sign code, such as where
temporary signage should be allowed. Gaffron stated Staff did review some other cities' sign codes to see
if they actually attempted to place limits on intensity. One example would be Minnetonka. A couple of
years ago Minnetonka went through a big battle about signs along 394. Minnetonka's code does not
include any intensity measurement requirement. Gaffron stated Orono's code should have some intensity
standard but that he is not sure whether it should be a numerical standard. Gaffron indicated it will
require some further discussion and investigation.
Lemke moved,Landgraver seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3779,Ken
Jenson on behalf of Trinity Church,260 Sixth Avenue North,granting of a conditional use permit
and variance,with the condition that the message does not change more than eight seconds.
Jenson stated they are agreeable to that condition.
VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0. (Thiesse recused himsel�
8. #15-3780 MICHAEL AND LI5A LARSON,3596 SHORELINE DRIVE,CONDITIONAL
USE PERMIT,8:16 P.M.-9:42 P.M.
Michael and Lisa Larson, Applicants, were present.
Barnhart stated the applicant is requesting a conditional use permit to operate an indoor dog daycare,
indoor dog boarding, and dog grooming business within an existing building located at 3596 Shoreline
Drive.
The review of the applicant's application to amend the zoning code to allow indoor dog boarding, indoar
dog daycare, and dog grooming as a conditional use permit in the B-1 zoning district is currently
underway. The Council tabled their discussion of the text amendment to September 28 citing the need to
better understand the business. Should the Council decline to amend the zoning ordinance,this
application must either be withdrawn or denied. The Planning Commission should consider this
application as if the amendment is approved. The Planning Commission may table action on the item
until the Council has made a decision on the text amendment. Barnhart stated he anticipates the text
amendment being approved in the near future.
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The applicants propose to use 6,200 square feet of the 7,600 square foot building. The business would
provide dog daycare, dog boarding, and dog grooming for small dogs less than 25 pounds. The proposal
states that up to 72 dogs would be housed in the property,which would include 1,000 square feet of an
indoor play area and 800 square feet of an outdoor play area. Barnhart recommended the number of dogs
be limited to one per 85 square feet of space.
Site improvements include upgrading the front fa�ade of the building by replacing the doors with
windows, shielding the windows with black fabric awnings and adding architectural lighting to illuminate
proposed signage. The main entry is proposed to be relocated to the southwest corner of the building.
Other improvements include adding a 6-foot high white vinyl fence to screen and enclose an outdoor play
area featuring K-9 grass on the west side of the building.
The existing parking lot will not be enlarged and will be repaved and restriped in kind. Much of the
existing hard surface will be removed from the west and south sides of the building and replaced with
either new sidewalks, landscaping areas, ar K-9 synthetic grass. The two southern approaches onto
Blaine Avenue will be removed.
The applicant proposes converting the front paved area to grass and landscaping. Mulch and landscaping
is proposed along the new sidewalk running along the west side of the building. The existing vegetation
at the north and northeast corner of the property will be maintained.
K-9 grass is proposed as the surface of the outdoor play areas and is designed to virtually eliminate all pet
smells and offers an easy to maintain, permeable surface for the dogs. It has advantages over grass as it is
uniform, does not require mowing, and does not die. Waste will be picked up and disposed of in the
garbage. Liquid waste will filter through to the ground.
The trash enclosure proposed at the north corner of the building, may need to be relocated to
accommodate clearer traffic movement. The trash enclosure will be screened with white privacy fence.
The applicant proposes to light the parking lot. The lighting will not bleed over the property line in
accordance with City ordinances.
Barnhart stated as with all uses,this business will have impacts. The proposed use may generate
additional impacts over other normal issues associated with traffic,noise, and lighting, such as impacts
associated with dog barking and smells. The applicants are well aware of the noise concerns and have
taken multiple steps to address these through building design and operations. Building improvements
include rubber flooring, full glass doors, acoustic sound baffles ceiling tiles, and replacement windows.
Planning Staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit and site plan for"The Woofington",
subject to the following conditions:
L The use is a listed permitted or conditional use in the B-1 zoning district.
2. The operator maintains the annual kennel license. Failure to maintain the kennel license shall
render the conditional use permit lapsed.
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3. The trash enclosure shall be constructed of materials consistent with the principal structure and
located as approved by Staff.
4. The Fire Chief shall approve the location of the fire department connections.
Berg asked how many dogs would be allowed in this building if they used 85 square feet for determining
the number of dogs.
Barnhart indicated it would be 73.
Landgraver asked if it is 25 pound or 30 pound.
Barnhart stated the applicant could clarify that.
Thiesse asked if there is any concern with liquid waste.
Barnhart stated that is not something that Staff has identified as a concern at this time but that the City
Engineer could be consulted on that issue. The K-9 system is intended to mitigate smells and Staff will
make sure there is no biohazard hazard with using that system.
Michael Larson, Applicant, stated The Woofington is intended to be a very upscale dog grooming and
daycare facility, such as a Ritz Carlton Hotel is. The intent is to have small dogs,which are 25 pounds or
under. The American Kennel Association defines a small dog as being 25 pounds or under. Fifty-two
percent of all households in America currently have dogs that are small breed, which is the only size
category that has consistently grown since 1999. Larson noted other dog daycare facilities in the Twin
Cities area place restrictions on smaller dogs, seven pounds or under, and others do not allow for pets 15
pounds or under. Larson stated by selecting small breed dogs,they automatically eliminate the top ten
most dangerous dog breeds from a safety perspective,which will provide a greater level of safety for the
dogs and staf£ Larson stated in their view Navarre is the perfect place to have an upscale dog daycare
and dog boarding facility.
Lisa Larson stated they have worked on this project for a couple of years now and that it will be a million
dollar project. Larson stated they are looking to create an upscale environment in Navarre. Larson stated
she purchased her first house in Navarre, her family resided on Shadywood for a number of years, and
that she really loves the community. Larson stated they want to bring the upscale nature of this business
to Navarre.
Lisa Larson stated in regards to the weight of the dogs, it will be 25 pounds and under but that the dogs
can be overweight. There will be a scale at the front desk to monitor that. Larson stated they also are
planning to create 12 new jobs in addition to increasing the tax base for Orono.
Michael Larson stated this location was chosen for several reasons, including traffic flow and visibility.
The building is currently in a state of disrepair and is in near tear-down condition. Larson stated they see
an opportunity to breathe new life into the building. Larson stated they are also envisioning removal of
the hardcover in front of the building and adding some green space to the lot. Larson stated they also
have a strong relationship with the Lake Minnetonka Pet Hospital two doors down.
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Lisa Larson stated some of the services that will be offered include overnight boarding, daycare grooming
and high-end spa services, such as blueberry facials and bathing services. They will be catering only to
small dogs even in the grooming area.
As it relates to the suites,the suites have been designed to mitigate the sound. The suites will have full
glass doors and will not have concrete floors and metal cages. Within the sheetrock pods,there will be a
soundproof door in addition to a soundproof door going down the hallway to the pods. Internally in the
suites there will be little beds with mattresses, fresh linens daily, pillows, blankets, and oriental rugs on
the floors, which will also help absorb the sounds. There will be epoxy on the floors to also help dampen
the sound and the ceilings will be lowered with acoustic tiles to help dampen sound.
Lisa Larson stated currently the building has no insulation at this point. Larson stated there used to be a
cabinet shop in the building with an external dust collector, no air-conditioning and open windows and
doors. Larson stated they will be adding insulation to the building. In addition,the suites will have web
cams so the pet parents can look in on their pets.
Mike Larson stated they will also be offering gourmet food preparation for their guests, such as salmon,
rice and veggies. There will be individual one-on-one play time. The pet owners will be able to skype in
and see how their loved one is doing while they are off traveling. Larson stated they also intend to have
photography services during the holidays, a fitness center as part of the spa center and a washing center as
well.
Lisa Larson stated also in relation to sound mitigation,the interior space for the indoor play area will be
sheet rocked and will have a very thick 100 percent recycled rubber flooring,which will also help to
absorb the sound.
Mike Larson stated it is the same type of flooring that is used in commercial law enforcement and military
grade gun ranges.
Lisa Larson stated as far as sound mitigation goes,there will be an exterior relief area and outdoor play
space where the dogs will be let out five times a day. The intent is not to keep those dogs outside all day
long. Larson stated they are suggesting a maximum of 10 dogs at a time be out there at a time and they
will be 100 percent supervised. Larson stated they will also attempt to hire animal behaviorists or trainers
to take care of the dogs.
Mike Larson stated they take sound mitigation very seriously and have hired TWC to be their partners in
this project in designing the building. TWC has literally designed 100s of pet care facilities around
America and bring a high level of expertise. Larson stated he spoke with Forever Lawn today, which will
be providing the canine grass product, and they have studies that show the ground soil beneath the K-9
grass product, due to their filtration process and fresh aggregate, renders the soil to be cleaner than
someone's drinking water.
Lisa Larson stated in year two they intend to have pickup and drop-off services at the facility. For the
first year there will not be 24-hour staff,which is very common in this industry, but it is anticipated that
will be added in year two.
Thiesse asked how many deliveries there would be and what type other than the dogs being dropped off.
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Mike Larson stated they do not really anticipate any deliveries. Any supplies that will be needed will be
picked up by themselves.
Lemke asked what hours they are looking at for the outdoor play area.
Mike Larson stated they have put together a schedule for relief time and every two hours the dogs would
go in 15 minute shifts in groups of ten or fewer dogs.
Lisa Larson stated during the daytime hours before 7:00 a.m. and after 6:30 p.m., the dogs will only be
out in the outdoor area two at a time and walked with leashes. Larson stated their intent is to have an
indoor facility, which has been the trend across the United States. Larson stated they have visited a
number of facilities across the country and that a lot of them are going to the indoor facilities. Larson
stated there is an indoor park in Dallas that is 25,000 or 28,000 square feet. Due to the antimicrobial
properties that are built into the K-9 grass product, sanitary conditions exist within that product.
Mike Larson stated the building will also be climate controlled.
Lemke asked how much it will cost to board a dog there.
Lisa Larson stated the prices will be very comparable to the other facilities in the Twin Cities and will
range from $45 on the low end and$99 on the high end.
Berg asked what the hours of operation will be for a staff person.
Lisa Larson indicated someone will be onsite from 6 a.m. to 8 p.m. The latest time a dog would be going
out would be at about 7:15.
Lemke asked if the dogs would be going outdoors in the winter.
Lisa Larson stated they will be going out for relief time in the winter. Larson stated the product can be
shoveled.
Berg asked if the dogs are monitored overnight.
Lisa Larson stated there will be web cams throughout the entire facility and in year two there will be a
24-hour staff person onsite.
Leskinen asked if there will be any kind of outside custodial service coming in.
Mike Larson stated that will be taken care of by the onsite staff and that the waste will be picked up by a
company called Pet Waste Professionals.
Lisa Larson stated there will be specific canisters that the waste is placed into.
Thiesse asked if there is a life expectancy on the grass.
Lisa Larson stated it has a lifetime guaranty.
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Mike Larson stated the product basically acts as a mound septic system and that there are products
available that would be applied to the surface.
Leskinen asked if the K-9 material will be installed on the interior play space as well.
Lisa Larson indicated it will not be.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 8:47 p.m.
Ralph Kempf, 3675 Togo Road, stated this is probably a good location for the type of business the
Larsons are proposing since there is County Road 15 on the north and a nonresidential or commercial area
to the west. Kempf noted the parking area is to the south, which provides extra distance to the residential
homes. Kempf stated in his view this piece of property will work well for them.
Kempf noted from the parking area there is a sidewalk going up to the main entrance on Blaine Avenue
and all of the streets in the residential areas around this facility are narrow streets and do not have
sidewalks. Kempf noted Orono just repaired all of the sidewalks down County Road 15 in an effort to
make the downtown Navarre area more walkable. To the north is the water town park or Livingston
Tower Park which will hopefully be more developed in the near future. Kempf stated he is glad to see a
sidewalk on their side of Blaine Avenue. Kempf stated traffic tends to move down Shoreline at a good
pace and that he believes the tendency of traffic is not to slow down until they get further into the
residential area.
Kempf stated he would propose to the owners that they continue their sidewalk to the south from the entry
to the building all the way down to the sidewalk on County Road 15. Kempf stated an even better option
would be to run the sidewalk all the way from County Road 15 to Lyric Avenue. The sidewalk would
provide safe pedestrian access to the park and would be timely given the proposed improvements to the
Livingston Tower Park. Kempf stated the sidewalk would also benefit the Navarre community and help
make this a pedestrian friendly area.
Cindy Rysavy, 3572 Shoreline Drive, stated she is the veterinarian who works next to the Dairy Queen.
Rysavy stated she is in support of the proposal and that in her view Navarre could use a little bit of a face
lift in some areas. Rysavy stated to be able to see this building being utilized in a positive way would be
fantastic and that a lot of her clients would like to see this type of business in the area. Rysavy stated this
type of business will help to fill a need in the community.
Rysavy stated as far as noise control goes, at her clinic she has her windows open periodically and the
traffic that goes by is louder than the dogs. Rysavy stated she finds that the noise control is pretty good at
these facilities.
Tom Weber, 3559 Lyric Avenue, stated he lives almost kitty-corner to this business and in his view the
noise from this facility will be unacceptable. Weber stated the noise from the dogs, as well as the traffic,
will be close to 100 decibels. Weber noted this will be a 24/7 operation,with an outdoor play area, and
that the noise will prevent him from enjoying his property. Weber stated all other kennels are usually in
an industrial area and not in a residential area and that this is not acceptable.
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Tom Haugan, 3585 Lyric Avenue, stated he owns the property that is the closest to this business and that
he loves dogs. Haugan stated he is impressed with the applicants' plan and that no one wants to see an
abandoned building but that he does have some concerns.
Haugan indicated he is a consumer of dog daycare and that he travels a lot. Haugan stated in some years
he has spent up to $5,000 a year in daycare for his dog and that he is used to this type of business.
Haugan stated a couple of common denominators with these businesses is that they are always in an
industrial park. Haugan stated if you look at Camp BowWow in Burnsville and Plymouth,there is 1,000
feet in every direction from a single residential properly. Haugan stated if you go to this address and go
out 1,000 feet in every direction,there appears to be 40 or 50 homes. Haugan stated this is a residential
area and does not fit this business model.
Haugan stated in addition, rush hour on County Road 15 is very, very busy. Haugan stated people will
turn left on Blaine, floor it, and then turn onto Lyric due to the congestion. Haugan stated the traffic will
only get worse with people dropping dogs of£ Haugan stated the Planning Commission needs to look at
other factors outside of the noise component and that he is not in favor of the proposal. Haugan stated he
would prefer a metal pounding, recycling center or welding fabricating business over this type of business
since they would not be open on the weekends.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 9:03 p.m.
Leskinen stated it is an excellent plan but there are some concerns from the neighbors about the noise.
Schoenzeit asked if there is enough money charged for a kennel license that would allow the City to do
sound checks and perhaps revoke their license if the noise is above a certain decibel level.
Barnhart stated he is not sure whether there is a standard that establishes a maximum decibel as part of the
kennel license.
Schoenzeit asked what the City can do if they are out of compliance.
Barnhart stated the City could establish a high-end decibel limit and monitor the situation if there are
complaints.
Schoenzeit asked whether the Planning Commission's recommendation could include a fee structure to
include that.
Barnhart stated he would need to look into that.
Leskinen commented she is not sure whether that would be within the scope of this application.
Schoenzeit stated in his mind those issues are coupled and there has to be some kind of connection to
compliance.
Lemke stated that might be able to be handled under the City's noise regulations.
Leskinen asked if someone could speak to the decibel levels and sound mitigation.
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Tim Parsons, TWC, stated his company has designed and constructed hundreds of these facilities and that
the Larsons are going above and beyond the usual standards that most dog daycare facilities follow.
Parsons stated in his view the Larsons have hit all the highlights of the facility.
Parsons stated the decibel plan shows the perimeter of the building. Parsons noted no dogs will be
boarded outside and no dogs will be able to be outside without a staff person, Parsons stated to address
the 24/7 barking,that will not be the case.
Parson stated in the center of the solid circle is a dog. If the dog were to be in that space barking, the
graph shows that a barking dog makes a 100 decibel sound,which is kind of an average. The typical wall
construction is rated at 50 decibels. Parsons stated this particular building is a concrete block structure
and the Larsons will be adding metal furring strips,rigid insulation, and gyp board to cut down sound
transfer. There will also be additional insulation added to the roo£ The net effect of this is considered an
STC,which is a sound transmission class. The wall and roof would have a rating of 50. If you take the
sound of a barking dog at 100, subtract whatever STC rating the sound passes through, that would be the
sound you hear outside.
Parsons stated the first radius shown on the graph is a 50-foot radius. What that is depicting is that for a
dog that is inside the facility barking between 7 a.m.to 7 p.m., any interior barking dog would have a 15
decibel effect for someone standing out in their back yard. Parsons stated the equivalent of a 15 decibel
sound is rustling leaves.
Parsons stated as you move further out to the next circle, the decibel level is down to eight,which is the
equivalent of a whisper. The other circles on the left side represent the radius at 50, 100 and 150 feet for
a dog if they were barking in the outside play area. In that situation,the barking is only being reduced by
distance. Parsons stated the first radius is 65,which corresponds to the sound of traffic. The next radius
is at 100 feet and the next radius is at 150 feet. Parsons stated in general the graph is showing as you get
further from the source of the noise,the decibel level decreases.
Barnhart stated high traffic is 50 decibels, a whisper is 30 decibels, and rustling leaves is 20 decibels
according to the material submitted.
Thiesse stated he does not believe measuring decibels is a linear calculation.
Barnhart stated conversational speech is 60, inside a subway car is 95, using a computer is 40, and the
hum of a refrigerator is 50.
Thiesse stated when the Twins won the World Series,the decibel level was 125. Thiesse stated in his
view it is not a straight line correlation.
Lemke asked if there is any way to increase the soundproofing.
Parsons stated items such as the mattresses, the pillows,the rubber flooring, and the sound absorptive
panels from a material or construction standpoint will help to absorb sound. The interior of the building
will have insulation, gyp board, and concrete block,which will also help cut those sounds down.
Parsons stated the whole strategy is to break the number of dogs into subgroups and play groups,which is
safer for the dogs as well as for staf£ When the dogs are together in the inside spaces in the smaller
groups, the dogs will not have the tendency to bark as a strange dog might. Parsons stated there is some
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staffing and procedural options that are also being put into place that will help control the noise in
addition to the soundproofing of the structure itself.
Berg asked if there will be screening around the outside area that will also have some type of sound
abatement. Berg stated if someone is walking down the street, a dog is going to bark, and if there are ten
dogs out there,they could all be barking at the same time.
Parsons stated the fenced area will be a privacy fence. Parsons stated basically the fence will be a white
vinyl6-foot high fence and will extend all the way to the ground. Parsons stated the fence will also help
to mitigate sound and keep it in that area for the most part.
Lemke asked if the main noise generation on the inside will be from the play area or if it will be
consistent throughout the whole building.
Parsons stated he placed it there because he was attempting to put the dog as close to the neighbor as
possible. Parsons stated between that wall and the area to the east is actually the landowner's personal
space so a dog cannot get any closer.
Lemke asked if some of the interior spaces could be re-oriented closer to the street. Lemke stated the
presidential dog suite would likely be quieter than the indoor play area.
Parsons stated from strictly a sound perspective, an argument could be made that a presidential dog suite
would be quieter, but there would still be the potential for that dog to bark as well.
Leskinen asked how long the dogs will be outside to play.
Barnhart stated the Planning Commission should have a breakdown of the dogs' rotation in their packet.
Landgraver stated a lot of technology and thought has been put into the building but the main area of
concern is the outdoor play area and relief area. Landgraver stated putting the relief area on Shoreline
Drive puts it closer to the neighbors across the street but that they are used to traffic noise. Landgraver
stated that area could be a potential alternative and would move the public noise generation to a less
impactful area.
Leskinen stated on a whole it is a great plan and very well thought out by the owners who are willing to
go the extra mile. Leskinen stated the noise appears to be the main issue.
Thiesse stated the last time the Commission discussed this property,the applicants had all deliveries
going to the parking lot and that there was a concern raised about drop-offs at the corner of the street.
Thiesse stated in his view all these dogs will be dropped off at the corner and that it is doubtful they will
drive into the parking lot and then walk to the reception area.
Lemke noted the reception area will be located in that area.
Landgraver stated no parking signs could be posted on Blaine if they are not there already.
Berg stated she likes the idea of having green space on County Road 15.
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Thiesse stated the other concern he has is the number of dogs. Thiesse stated they do not have 1,000 feet
around the building and that there should be some consideration to the fact that this abuts a residential
area.
Schoenzeit expressed a concern about the fact that the owners will not have 24-hour staffing from day
one. Schoenzeit stated perhaps 24-hour staffing could become a function of how busy the facility is, and
if the facility is half full,that could perhaps be a trigger for the 24-hour staffing.
Landgraver asked what other types of businesses might operate 24/7.
Barnhart stated the typical business will have six to seven impacts on the area, such as traffic, lights, and
noise. Barnhart noted restaurants and bars would have later hours and generate traffic during the evening
or night hours.
Lemke stated his main concern is the traffic situation and that it will likely not be resolved tonight.
Lemke stated he would like to see the drop-off area located in the back of the building. Lemke stated the
Planning Commission should perhaps table this.
Leskinen stated the Planning Commission would need to provide clear direction to the applicant if that is
the way the Planning Commission would like to go.
Lemke stated traffic is his main concern. Lemke stated the proposed use is not a perfect use of the
property but it is a good use. Lemke stated he also understands the concerns of the neighbors but that in
his view it is a good use of the property.
Leskinen stated in her view it is a well thought out plan and appears to be a good use of the property.
Leskinen stated at this point the applicants could go forward and take their chances with the Council but
that it may be more productive to address some of these concerns.
Thiesse asked if there is any possibility the outdoor play area could go away or be covered or enclosed.
Lisa Larson stated financially that is not feasible for them at this time and that they are spending all their
money on the construction and soundproofing. Larson stated they completely understand the issues and
have painstakingly put together the rotation schedules for the play area and relief area. Larson stated the
outdoor play area is not intended to be an area where the dogs will just run free.
Thiesse stated if they have 73 dogs and half of the dogs bark once,that would be the equivalent of one
dog barking for quite a while. Thiesse stated he wants the neighbors to be happy since this is the area
where they live.
Lisa Larson noted there would be no daycare on Saturday and Sundays and that the expected occupancy
in year one for this type of business is 50 percent on average.
Berg asked how many suites would be available for boarding on the weekends.
Lisa Larson stated 55 suites are available for overnight.
Mike Larson stated by the end of year one,they would expect a 50 percent occupancy rate.
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Berg asked if they have looked at flipping the design.
Mike Larson stated they have not until this evening. Larson pointed out that would require putting a
fence in front of a building and that would be a question for the community on whether that would be
acceptable.
Berg stated she is talking more about the interior of the building.
Thiesse stated he would prefer green space out there.
Leskinen stated if the blacktop in front of the building is replaced with landscaping and grass,the
likelihood of somebody stopping on Shoreline and going across grass will probably not happen. Leskinen
stated that is also a good argument not to continue the sidewalk all the way to County Road 15.
Thiesse stated in his view the community needs a sidewalk on that side of the street.
Landgraver suggested the applicants think about other options for the outdoor space and possible noise
mitigation.
Mike Larson stated this facility would not be the first dog facility in the Twin Cities to abut up against a
residential neighborhood.
Lisa Larson noted one-third of the Adogo lot near Ridgedale is next to residential.
Mike Larson noted they did submit some information on indoor dog facilities in the Twin Cities and that
they do exist near residential areas.
Thiesse stated he appreciates that, but the Planning Commission just received that information this
evening.
Leskinen asked if they would be okay with the application being tabled.
Lisa Larson stated they understand traffic is an issue and that it is likely there would be four cars at peak
time. Larson stated they could post Blaine Avenue no parking, which would force the people into the
parking lot. Larson stated they could also take a look at putting the entrance on the northwest side.
Barnhart stated in his view it is not an attractive spot to park given the amount of traffic. Barnhart
indicated he would like to visit with the applicants a little bit more to see what can be done to address the
concerns raised tonight and then bring the application back next month.
Schoenzeit recommended they also revisit the amount of staffing.
Lemke moved, Schoenzeit seconded,to table Application No. 15-3780,Michael and Lisa Larson,
3596 Shoreline Drive. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
(Recess taken from 9:42 P.M.—9:48 P.M.)
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9. #15-3781 STONEWOOD,LLC, ON BEHALF OF BELLE AND HARRY YAFFE,3185
CASCO CIRCLE,VARIANCES,9:48 P.M.—10:17 P.M.
Sven Gustafson, Stonewood, LLC, and Kathy Alexander, Architect, were present.
Curtis stated the applicant is requesting lot width, lot area,and average lakeshore setback variances in
order to construct a new single-family home on the property which is substandard in area and width. The
average lakeshore setback variance is being requested in order to construct a one-story 7.5' x 17' porch on
the home lakeward of the average lakeshore setback.
In reviewing the application, Staff finds that there is a demonstrable practical difficulty supporting the lot
area and lot width variance requests. As it relates to the variance to allow the one-story screen porch to
be constructed lakeward of the average lakeshore setback,the practical difficulty is not as clear. The
average lakeshore setback is measured by drawing a straight line from the most lakeward portion of the
principal structure on each side of the two lakeshore properties. There is an extensive patio on the
property to the east at 3195 Casco Circle which includes an outdoor fireplace chimney that appears to be
approximately 8 to 10 feet in height. However,the applicants have designed the screen porch to have
views beyond the neighbor's outdoor chimney on the property to the east.
Staff understands the applicants and the owner of 3195 Casco Circle met over the weekend to discuss the
average lakeshore setback variance and may wish to discuss a modification to the plan. Curtis stated she
will let the applicant address that.
Staff recommends approval of the lot area and lot width variances. The Planning Commission should
review the issues outlined in Staffls report, hold the public hearing, and then make a recommendation to
the City Council.
Staff recommends the following conditions be required:
1. The subject property exists as two separate tax parcels currently. The two parcels should be
legally combined prior to the issuance of a building permit for the proposed home.
2. The applicant's architectural plans appear to reflect additional raised patio areas lakeward of the
proposed porch in their renderings. However,the survey does not suggest additional patio area.
All proposed patio areas should be clarified prior to the City Council meeting. If elevated,they
should be located behind the average lakeshore setback line so as to not result in additional
encroachments.
The Planning Commission had no questions for Staff.
Sven Gustafson, Stonewood, stated it is actually a four-season porch that is being proposed. The patios
are not raised and are just an artist's conception. Gustafson stated the patios should be a nonissue.
Gustafson stated the basis for the request is that the fireplace to the east is lakeward of the primary
structure at 3195. To a certain degree the fireplace blocks the angular view through that property.
Gustafson indicated they are pulling the home back approximately seven feet back from the existing
home as well as lowering the height of the portion that would be in front of the average lakeshore setback.
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In addition,the only portion of the house that is in front of the average lakeshore setback line is the four-
season porch. The rest of the home is well behind the average lakeshore setback line.
The project does meet the approval of the neighbors. The neighbors to the east have requested the home
be moved back a foot and a half toward the street. Gustafson stated they are open to that but it would
require a street side variance by that same foot and a hal£ Gustafson indicated that would result in
pulling the home a little more into compliance on the lakeside but then into noncompliance on the street
side. Gustafson noted they are improving the encroachment on the lakeside considerably.
Kathy Alexander,Architect, stated part of the reason for the request is the fact that the fireplace is a rather
large structure and it does block the view from the subject property.
Curtis displayed a photograph of the fireplace structure.
Gustafson stated it is their understanding the fireplace was constructed prior to the current property owner
without a permit or City approval, and even though it is a structure with footings, it does not qualify for
the average lakeshore setback since it is not the primary structure.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 9:55 p.m.
Harry Yaffe, property owner, stated they came up with a solution with the neighbor. Yaffe stated they are
asking for 7.5 feet but they would be okay with sliding the house back an additional foot and a half,which
would require a street variance. The Armstrongs on the other side of the property are fine with the
project. Yaffe stated he hopes the Planning Commission entertains that compromise.
Berg asked if he is looking at moving the house a foot and a half back or wanting to proceed with what is
before the Planning Commission.
Yaffe stated he would like the Planning Commission to consider the neighbor's request as part of their
overall application.
Gustafson stated the reasoning for the foot and a half is that it puts the proposed garage into line with the
street setback of the current garage. Gustafson stated that would help shield the neighbor's garage and is
a better placement.
Landgraver stated they are now looking at a 6-foot encroachment into the lakeshore.
Yaffe stated the modified request would be to go with the six feet.
Lemke asked why they did not slide it all the way back.
Gustafson stated they currently abut the street setback.
Thiesse asked what would happen if they moved the house back six feet so it is in compliance on the back
side.
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Yaffe stated they would like to be as close as they can to the lake and that the neighbor is in agreement
with the six feet. Yaffe noted it would only apply to one section of the house and not the entire house.
Yaffe stated the proposed house is being moved about eight feet further back than the existing structure.
Gustafson stated as the house is pushed further back,the view from the porch becomes the back of the
large fireplace.
Debbie Callahan, 3195 Casco Circle, stated she invited the Yaffes over to discuss the project and to figure
out what everyone can live with as a compromise. Callahan stated the proposed house will come over ten
feet closer to the properly line and currently that area is all open area. Callahan stated she can live with
that but her real concern is the view of the lake. Callahan stated they spend the majority of their time in
the room on the lakeside of the house,and by asking for that extra foot and a half,thy can still have a lot
of their sightlines and also accommodate the Yaffes. Callahan stated that compromise still gives the
Yaffes their sightlines to the lake and helps to preserve hers.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 10:07 p.m.
Schoenzeit noted this is a clean sheet design and that the applicants should design a home that meets all
the requirements wherever possible. Schoenzeit stated there is space between the bituminous and the
property so the encroachment is still more than 30 feet.
Thiesse stated it is an improvement over what is there.
Schoenzeit stated he understands that, but since it is a clean sheet,there is no reason to put it in front of
the average lakeshore setback line. Schoenzeit stated the variance to the average lakeshore setback
variance should be eliminated since there is no compelling reason to grant it.
Berg stated she would not want to look at the fireplace.
Schoenzeit stated the question comes down to how many degrees of view someone is entitled to and
which windows the view should be from. Schoenzeit stated if the neighbor put in a row of trees that grow
to a height of 50 feet,the City would not require them to be cut down to improve the lakeshore view.
Leskinen asked if the chimney is ahead of the average lakeshore setback.
Curtis stated the average lakeshore setback for that house is not measured from the fireplace but it does
encroach into that zone.
Thiesse stated the applicants are well behind the 75-foot line and the average lakeshore setback is set to
not cause a serious encroachment to the neighbors' view. Thiesse noted the neighbors have agreed this is
not an encroachment to their view. Thiesse stated he does not find the average lakeshore setback as rock
solid as the 75-foot setback and that he does not see the encroachment into the average lakeshore setback
as a problem since the neighbor has indicated she is fine with it.
Landgraver stated then the house on the other side would be able to expand further in the average
lakeshore setback.
Thiesse stated this is a location where everyone is happy and the 75 feet from the lake is still being
maintained. Thiesse stated in his view this is a happy median.
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Leskinen asked whether they would be creating a practical difficulty for someone down the road if the
Planning Commission granted the six feet.
Thiesse stated in his view they are not.
Curtis stated it is being moved closer to the lake,which would give the neighbor a larger average
lakeshore setback.
Leskinen asked if the Planning Commission should review a formal plan to grant the street side setback.
Curtis stated in her view the Planning Commission does not have to and that the Planning Commission is
discussing it tonight at the publi�c hearing. Curtis stated the people who are interested in the project are in
attendance tonight.
Leskinen stated she does not have any real opposition to the project.
Thiesse stated the Yaffes' view is hindered by a noncompliant stone fireplace on the neighbor's property.
If the house is pushed back the extra six feet, which would put them in compliance with the average
lakeshore setback,there would be an obstruction that has been built that blocks their view.
Schoenzeit stated the only reason the City takes that into consideration is the fact that it is inorganic, and
that if it were a set of trees that the neighbor had planted in that same area, that would not matter.
Landgraver stated the average lakeshore setback is a rule or a standard by which the City measures things,
and he has not heard any reason why a four-season porch should encroach into that. Landgraver stated he
is concerned that the next group will come in and say that both of their neighbors are okay with it and that
the City should go ahead and approve it.
Lemke stated he also has that same concern.
Thiesse stated the average lakeshore setback was implemented to protect people's views. Thiesse stated
in his mind it is not a big issue since the neighbor is fine with it. Thiesse stated the City should be more
concerned with people staying 75 feet away from the lake.
Berg stated the two neighbors have come to a compromise and have presented it.
Leskinen stated the guidelines for the average lakeshore setback help determine whether something
should be constructed in that zone, and if they are not blocking anyone's view, it is not an issue.
Landgraver stated he is also concerned about allowing a noncompliant structure be the basis for granting
the average lakeshore setback variance.
Schoenzeit stated the justification is not because of the fireplace, but, according to Commissioner
Thiesse's reasoning, by putting it there,they are not hurting the neighbors. Schoenzeit stated he does not
want the next person to say the neighbor has a structure in their yard so I want to go in front of it.
Berg stated the neighbors have come to a compromise and they are willing to accept it.
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Leskinen stated her only question is whether the four-season porch is going to be the practical difficulty
for the next person. Leskinen stated the problem is the large structure is obstructing the view without the
average lakeshore setback being measured from that point.
Schoenzeit noted the view of the fireplace is only from the side windows and not the back windows.
Lemke stated he tends to agree with Commissioner Landgraver and that he has not seen any practical
difficulty for it.
Thiesse stated they are improving the situation but not improving it completely.
Schoenzeit stated when someone constructs a new house,they need to fix as many noncompliant items as
possible.
Leskinen stated the obstruction of their view is not something the applicants can correct when it is not
part of the average lakeshore setback. Leskinen stated at first she did not believe it was a practical
difficulty but has since come to the conclusion that it is.
Schoenzeit stated the Planning Commission would not take into account the fact that three evergreen trees
were planted on the neighbor's property when considering the average lakeshore setback.
Thiesse stated he can see Commissioner Schoenzeit's point but that this is a peculiar case that got
compounded when they moved the house further back. Thiesse stated the stone fireplace is in the way.
Berg indicated she agrees with Commissioner Thiesse.
Leskinen stated this is an unusual situation and that she does not believe it will set any unusual precedent.
Thiesse stated the average lakeshore setback is protecting the view of the neighbor only and not
environmental to anyone. Thiesse stated the average lakeshore setback is not as tight as some might
think and that he is more concerned with the 75-foot setback to preserve people's views.
Schoenzeit reiterated it is new construction and the house should be as compliant as possible.
Leskinen stated she would rather grant an average lakeshore setback variance rather than a street setback
variance.
Berg moved,Thiesse seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3781,Stonewood,
LLC,on behalf of Belle and Harry Yaffe,3185 Casco Circle,granting of lot area,lot width,and
average lakeshore setback variance for a 6-foot encroachment and a variance allowing a 1.5 foot
encroachment into the 30-foot rear setback. VOTE: Ayes 3,Nays 3,Schoenzeit,Landgraver,and
Lemke opposed.
Commissioners Landgraver and Schoenzeit stated they are opposed to the average lakeshore setback
variance.
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10. #15-3782 ROBERT AND MONIQUE KANTOR AND STEPHEN OTTO,2165 AND 2185
WATERTOWN ROAD,LOT LINE REARRANGEMENT, 10:17 P.M.—10:32 P.M.
Robert Kantor and Stephen Otto, Applicants, were present.
Gaffron stated the Kantors are preparing to sell their home and have agreed to sell Steve Otto a portion of
their property. The application before the Planning Commission is requesting a subdivision for a lot line
rearrangement resulting in detachment of a 0.70 acre parcel from 2165 Watertown Road and reattachment
to 2185 Watertown Road. This would result in 2165 remaining conforming at 2.0 acres dry buildable and
2185 Watertown to increase to 1.5 acres dry buildable.
Access to the developed parcels in this neighborhood is unique and consists of a primary access for the
four properties at 2075, 2145, 2165, and 2185 Watertown Road via Outlot A. The applicants have
submitted septic testing indicating the existing system for 2165 is in compliance and the alternate site
remains available. A wetland delineation has also been completed and indicates that the properties
involved contain 0.20 acre of wetland,which will all be part of the 2185 property upon completion of the
lot line rearrangement.
Staff recommends approval of the lot line rearrangement subject to the following:
l. The applicants granting new drainage and utility easements along the new lot boundary;
2. The applicants submitting a copy of the wetland delineation report to the City;
3. The applicant is required to file new deeds based on the new legal descriptions.
Staff will work with the property owners and the City Attorney to ensure that the necessary documents
are prepared and filed. The Planning Commission should hold the public hearing and make a
recommendation to the City Council.
Thiesse asked if there is any reason why that easement should not be vacated.
Gaffron stated notice of that would need to be published and is not something that can be done tonight.
The applicant indicated he had nothing to add.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 10:32 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 10:32 p.m.
Landgraver moved,Lemke seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 15-3782,Robert
and Monique Kantor and Stephen Otto,2165 and 2185 Watertown Road,granting of a lot line
rearrangement. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
11. #15-3783 JOHN BESSESEN ON BEHALF OF DAVID DELANEY,2465 SHADYWOOD
ROAD AND 2500 KELLY AVENUE, SKETCH PLAN, 10:33 P.M.— 11:25 P.M.
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• � � MINUTES OF THE
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Monday, September 21,2015
6:30 o'clock p.m.
John Bessesen, Applicant,was present.
Barnhart noted in April of 2015,the City Council denied a plat application for eight dwelling units on
3-plus buildable acres. The homes were to be constructed as twin home structures. The Council felt that
the density of 2.7 units per acre was inconsistent with the lower density of the neighborhood and
development of twin homes on the property would be incompatible with primarily single-family
residential character of the neighborhood because of the massing of the twin homes.
The applicants are now proposing development of a 24 unit single-family neighborhood on approximately
5.93 acres. A large easement impacts the lot adjacent to Kelly Avenue, reducing the effective buildable
area to approximately 4.34 acres. Barnhart noted this is a sketch plan review and the project would
require a rezoning of the property.
Access to the lots will be provided by two streets with entrances off of Kelly Avenue to the northwest and
one off of Shadywood Road. A carded gate system is proposed at Kelly Avenue to manage cut through
traffic from/to Shadywood. A trail along Shadywood Road is proposed, as is a path to Lydiard beach
along the southern edge of the property. Approval of the intersection from Hennepin County has not yet
been obtained.
The applicants propose housing in three tiers. Twelve smaller lots, 40 feet wide, closer to Shadywood
give way to six medium *50 feet wide)and ultimately six larger lots(60 feet wide)along proposed
Delaney Drive and the wetland adjacent to Kelly Avenue. The houses nearer Shadywood will employ
rear garages and a shared driveway to minimize garage door appearance on the street. The applicant
anticipates a variety of garage orientation for the remaining 12 lots.
On the southwest side of Kelly Avenue are single-family homes. Lots range in size between 0.9 and 2.9
acres. The Planning Commission should discuss if the lot sizes are appropriate.
In addition,the parcel adjacent to Kelly Avenue is zoned LR1-B which has a one acre minimum. The
parcel adjacent to Shadywood is zoned BB-4 Office/Professional. The proposal is not consistent with
either of the current zoning.
The applicant intends to develop the project as a PUD. An analysis of the PUD requirements has not been
completed at this point and is dependent on Planning Commission and City Council feedback on the
sketch plan.
Tom Wasmoen stated after the April meeting,they sat down with City Staff and Mayor McMillan and
talked about a plan that would meet the Metropolitan Council's requirements for density and a plan that
the City could support. Some of the other improvements include incorporating the piece out to
Shadywood, which will create more of a buffer for the residential area.
Wasmoen noted the feedback initially at the City Council meeting was no big houses or multiple housing.
The thought with this development is by doing the 12 units,they could be starter homes that would be in
the $350,000 to $400,000 range. The more wooded area with the larger lots would be in a slightly
upgraded price range.
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6:30 o'clock p.m.
Wasmoen stated under their proposal,the conservation zone would be protected. Wasmoen stated the
only reason a lengthy drive is shown coming back to Kelly Drive is to have a through route for
emergency vehicles and installing a gate. Only the residents would be able to access the gate.
Wasmoen stated by presenting this as a PUD with an association of homeowners,they would have more
control over how runoff is handled and the specific locations of the homes. Wasmoen indicated there is
some room to move the house locations around but that they have basically created a very large area that
will stay wooded and out of the ravine. The homes have been logically placed to have the least amount of
impact on the site. Wasmoen indicated he has also walked the site during the fall and summer and that
the homes should not be visible from the lakeside. Wasmoen stated in his view this development will be
invisible from the lake.
Wasmoen stated if you compare these lots to the homes on the other side of the church,they are creating
lots that are similar in size and scope to the other inland lots and not the ones on the lake. Wasmoen
stated they are attempting to create a cohesive little neighborhood and building a mix of homes that would
appeal to the empty nester. The prices would range from 350,000 up to perhaps a million dollars.
Wasmoen stated one other piece to the development is to create a path at the end of the hammerhead.
There is some room to elongate that and then have a path down to Kelly to allow people who live in the
neighborhood to access the public beach. Wasmoen stated because it would be developed as a PUD,
there would be a homeowners association and there will be design criteria that homeowners would have
to meet so there will be cohesiveness to the neighborhood. Wasmoen indicated he has spoken with three
custom home builders and they feel this is an appropriate use of the property and they are excited about
building the homes.
Wasmoen stated in his view more thought has gone into this concept plan and that they wanted to make
sure they incorporated comments from the City Council and the Planning Commission into this design.
Wasmoen stated by incorporating the Shadywood parcel into this development, it will help to create more
of a buffer.
Schoenzeit asked what the chances are to obtain a curb cut onto Shadywood.
Berg noted there is a curb cut there now.
Barnhart stated he does not want to guess at what chance there is for a curb cut for this development, but
that it would depend on how far away from the intersection it is and whether it lines up with a logical
location on the other side of the street.
Schoenzeit stated the gate is nice, but without that access,the whole thing kind of falls apart.
Wasmoen stated Mr. Bessessen had a discussion with the County previously on one of the other sketches
and that the County said as long as you can get off on Kelly Drive,that would be good. Wasmoen stated
with the apartment building,the County did not see any reason to allow that access, but because of what
is being proposed now, it falls more into what they recommended. Wasmoen stated that was a discussion
that happened previously but the logic is there to allow the access.
Berg asked how the units could be increased to 12 when the City was not in favor of the five units.
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Wasmoen stated the twin units were 70 to 80 feet wide and very different from what is being proposed
now. Wasmoen stated in his view there was a real resistance to that scale of building on the site, and that
the issue is where the Metropolitan Council stands on what they would like to see for number of units per
acre and being able to develop this in a way that met the feedback that was given at the Council meeting.
Berg stated in her view 12 units on this piece of property is too much density. Berg stated she also does
not feel they should go on Kelly at all and that everything should go out to Shadywood. Berg stated due
to this property being so close to the intersection, no one is going to go out on County Road 19. Berg
stated she knows what it is like to get out from Lydiard, and that what is going to happen is they are all
going to go down Kelly to Lydiard, which will bring all sorts of traffic into the neighborhood. Berg noted
the Planning Commission had a big discussion earlier in the evening about children and safety. Berg
stated Kelly Avenue is a short cut during the summer when people are backed up at the stoplight. Berg
stated in her view that needs to address.
Wasmoen stated only the residents themselves would have access through the gate.
Berg stated if there are 24 units and everyone has two cars,there would be 48 more cars coming into this
neighborhood. Berg stated over and over it has been said that that was too dense for this property. Berg
stated she would locate more homes on the Shadywood property and that she just does not understand
why they are looking at 12 units on the residential piece.
Wasmoen stated they are going with the three units per acre because it is a requirement of the
Metropolitan Council. Wasmoen stated the amount of density was discussed as well as the ability of their
client to develop the property to the best use when they met with Staf£ Wasmoen stated they need to get
to an economical number of homes in order to have a homeowners association and make the development
work. Wasmoen noted he had originally shown 32 units on the first sketch and that he has decreased it to
three per acre.
Wasmoen stated in terms of Kelly, he would not have put the curb cut there, but that when they sit down
with the fire marshal, he is going to ask why the street does not go through. Wasmoen stated he felt the
gated access would alleviate the traffic concerns.
Berg stated he is sending more traffic into the neighborhood.
Wasmoen stated the residents of this development will be just as concerned about traffic.
Berg stated she sees no reason to have the access onto Kelly.
Wasmoen stated they can bring the application back after they have talked with the fire marshal but that
he is fairly confident the fire marshal will want a through street.
Leskinen stated she would agee that it is a little too dense for this area given the traffic concerns.
Wasmoen indicated they did discuss the density with Staff and that it boils down to a certain number
given the size of the lots.
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6:30 o'clock p.m.
Leskinen stated it feels like a lot for this area given the current traffic issues. Leskinen noted the top
parcel is zoned B-4 for potential mixed use, and that she was disappointed to see that it would be single-
family. Leskinen stated she thought mixed use on Shadywood would be appropriate.
Landgraver stated on the Kelly Avenue side, it does seem like there is still massing there and that he
would like to see them spread out but topographically it might not be possible.
Wasmoen indicated the homes could be spread out more than what they are, but one of the reasons they
did not do that was to preserve a larger green area.
Landgraver stated a thought would be to limit the access to Kelly to maybe just the houses on the south
side of Delaney and direct all the other people out on Shadywood. Landgraver stated in his view people
will go down to Kelly if they can.
Landgraver stated the City has a density issue as it relates to city water and sewer and that they keep
kicking the can down the road. Landgraver noted the applicants are not proposing to build this as dense
as originally proposed and that this development is probably well thought out in terms of spreading the
density out over the residential area to the commercial area,which is much more dense.
Wasmoen stated it would be a good buffer. Wasmoen stated if you do a visual,you will barely be able to
see the six homes from Kelly and that they will be planting additional trees in that area. Wasmoen stated
they will not touch that whole piece and it will be masked from Kelly. Wasmoen stated visually it will
not be an impact off of Kelly except for where the drive will go.
Lemke stated from a density standpoint the plan makes sense and that there is a buffer all around the site.
Lemke stated the City needs some higher density areas.
Wasmoen stated there are some architecturally designed homes contained in the Commission's packet
and that they are looking at homes with good curb appeal and attempting to create a walkable street.
Berg asked if he is thinking two-story homes.
Wasmoen indicated they would be two stories or a mixture of one to two stories.
Berg stated a story and a half may be more appropriate towards Kelly and then two stories on the
Shadywood piece. Berg stated if they are trying to preserve the green area, a two or three-story house
would not be something that she would recommend.
Schoenzeit asked if the density they are showing matches the Comprehensive Plan.
Berg stated she does not agree with the Comprehensive Plan and that it is not well thought out. Berg
stated the density on the Shadywood side is not a problem but that the density should be limited on the
Kelly Avenue side.
Schoenzeit noted the density outside of the gate is higher than what is being proposed here with the four
townhome units.
Thiesse stated the plan seems to be preriy good but that there are some issues with access onto Kelly.
Thiesse stated in his view they will not be able to build without the connection to Kelly.
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6:30 dclock p.m.
Berg stated it is very difficult to get out onto Kelly at certain times of the day.
Thiesse stated the City will need to look at how that can be fixed.
Wasmoen stated the Shadywood parcel has 12 units on it and the Kelly side has six units. Wasmoen
stated the other option is to take one of the units that face Kelly and place it on the other side
Barnhart stated he would prefer to collect comments from the Planning Commission and perhaps take
public comments tonight and then bring the sketch plan back. Barnhart stated he has heard concerns with
density near Kelly Avenue,traffic issues onto Kelly, and the height of the buildings from Kelly.
Wasmoen asked if they could have a review of the plan by the fire marshal.
Barnhart stated it can be reviewed but that he would hesitate to make the plan too detailed at this point
until there is some understanding of the position of the City Council. Barnhart stated he wanted to get the
Planning Commission's first impression of the plan and that the plan will be fine-tuned.
Wasmoen stated a review by the fire marshal would resolve the issue of whether access t Kelly will be
allowed. Wasmoen stated in his experience with the fire marshal he will want this to be a through street.
Berg stated limiting the number of cars that could access Kelly would be an option.
Thiesse noted Orono has a number of cul-de-sacs, and asked whether a cul-de-sac could be constructed in
this situation.
Gaffron stated the majority of the cul-de-sacs are located in the rural areas and that he does not know on
which side the fire marshal will weigh in on.
Schoenzeit stated he would show it with a cul-de-sac if they really do not want a through street.
Leskinen suggested also approaching Hennepin County regarding access to Shadywood. Leskinen stated
if they are not able to get access onto Shadywood, that would dramatically change the plan.
Leskinen noted this is a sketch plan review and that typically a public hearing is not required but that
there are a number of people in the audience that may wish to comment on the proposal.
Barnhart stated it would not necessarily be a public hearing but that the Planning Commission could hear
public comments.
Chair Leskinen stated she would allow public comment at this time.
Ralph Kempf, 3675 Togo Road, stated as it relates to concerns about traffic in the neighborhood, he
would note that in the morning traffic is usually going toward Excelsior and Highway 7 or Highway 15.
If someone is going to Minneapolis, going out on Shadywood is not going to work since they would not
be able to make that left turn. Kempf stated what someone will be able to do is go down to Kelly, not
drive through the neighborhood but take a right, go by the grocery store, and then merge with a right turn
onto 15. Kempf stated the cars will not go all the way through the Kelly neighborhood.
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Berg stated that is not what happens.
Kempf stated for the other people who are going toward Excelsior, it would be quicker to go out and take
a right on Shadywood rather than drive through Kelly. Kempf stated if he was going out to 15, he would
run out and take a right. Kempf stated if he was going to Excelsior, he would not drive all the way
through the Kelly neighborhood. Kempf stated in his view the fire marshal would have a problem with it
as well as the county given the left turn. Kempf stated it is likely the county will require an access onto
Kelly.
Judy Fredrickson, 2575 Kelly Avenue, stated she is incredibly disappointed to be back tonight and that
she is also disappointed with the applicants as well as with Mr. Gaffron. Fredrickson stated she realizes
Mr. Delaney has the right to come back and address the Planning Commission, but that he does not have
the right to keep coming back with the same plan. Fredrickson stated he continues to come back with a
plan that proposes access onto Kelly Avenue. The applicants have brought a plan for Kelly Avenue time
and time again and the City Council has voted no. Fredrickson stated Mr. Delaney has every right to
bring a plan forward for the Shadywood part but that the City Council said no on the Kelly Avenue side,
that there would be no rezoning of that property and that it should be single-family dwellings.
Fredrickson stated the Council further said that it should be single-family one acre, which would be three
single-family homes. Fredrickson stated they are now asking to construct 12 homes on that area.
Fredrickson stated based on that prior feedback and for them to now ask for 12 is ridiculous and insulting.
The City Council voted against it and now everyone is back here again at 11:15 at night talking about the
same thing. Fredrickson stated the City Council said they felt that the density of 2.7 units per acre was
inconsistent with the lower density of the neighborhood and the development of twin homes would be
incompatible with the single-family residential character. Now what is being prosed is 24 units on 43
acres,which is a density of.18. Fredrickson stated before it was 3.75 units per acre and now it is .18.
Fredrickson stated the new proposal is now twice as dense as the first proposal.
Fredrickson stated Mayor McMillan did not say she wanted a lot of starter homes. The reference to the
Metropolitan Council is also not true. At the City Council meeting,they talked about the Metropolitan
Council, but it was in reference to housing for people who cannot afford housing and access to places to
shop for groceries and drug stores. Fredrickson stated the kind of people that would be interested in that
type of housing will not be shopping at Lunds since everyone knows that store is expensive. Fredrickson
stated the Metropolitan Council is not talking about that kind of density for this area and that they are
talking about the Highway 12 corridor and not Navarre. Fredrickson stated the applicants should quit
kidding around that the Metropolitan Council is trying to bring in cheap housing in this area and that they
should leave Kelly Avenue alone.
Fredrickson stated if they want to talk about the new project,they can, but that they should leave Kelly
Avenue alone because the residents will fight this. Fredrickson noted 30 feet is the width of this room
and that they are proposing 30-foot houses. Fredrickson stated they cannot squeeze 24 houses on this
land and that 30-foot homes would not fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. Fredrickson stated they
are proposing three, four units on an acre, and then act like they took the residents and Council's
feedback.
Fredrickson stated the only reason they are here again is for a return on investment for Mr. Delaney.
Fredrickson requested they leave Kelly Avenue alone, noting that the City Council has spoken.
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6:30 o'clock p.m.
Frank Masserano, 2650 Shadywood, stated when the Council reviewed the previous application, they said
they wanted larger to moderate sized homes on this parcel with one acre minimum per house. Masserino
stated they talked about homes of about 4,000 square feet.
Masserano stated he and his wife are grateful to the Council and Planning Commission when they worked
with the City on their property. Masserano stated they cleaned the proeprty up and have 23 acres right
now door to this property. Masserano noted Mr. Delaney has owned this property for a long time.
Masserano stated the dentist is willing to sell his land and that Mr. Delaney could double his land if he
purchases it. Masserano stated he believes in getting a return on your investment but that he would like to
have them do what they have done, which is to purchase additional land.
Tom Wasmoen stated the first issue he would like to address is the fact that the mayor stated very clearly
at the City Council meeting that she did not want to see big homes on this parcel. The mayor did not like
the idea of three big homes on this property and that she wanted something to keep people in the
neighborhood. Wasmoen stated in his view homes that start in the $350,000 to a million dollar range will
attract people of a high caliber and that there will not be people buying these homes who cannot afford to
be in this neighborhood. Wasmoen stated they are not low income homes but would be homes that will
be aimed at people who want to stay in the community or come into the community.
Wasmoen stated given the fact that this development is right up against the retail, in their view it would
be a lot easier to market homes of this nature versus trying to sell a$4 million dollar home sites right
behind Lunds. Wasmoen stated he hopes the Planning Commission can see that they are trying to create
homes that will bring value to the community.
Leskinen noted this is a sketch plan and that no formal action needs to be taken by the Planning
Commission. Leskinen stated the Planning Commission has provided their feedback and that the sketch
plan will go before the City Council.
12. #15-3784 CITY OF ORONO—TEXT AMENDMENT RELATED TO DEFINITIONS,
LAKE YARD LANDSCAPING,RESIDENTIAL LIGHTING,AND LIVING WALLS,
11:25 P.M.— 11:58 P.M.
Barnhart stated the City Council had directed Staff to review city ordinances in response to a number of
complaints regarding lighting so placed as to negatively impact the enjoyment of residential properties as
well as the use of landscaping that has the same impact on lake views as structures.
Barnhart stated the City has received a number of complaints over the years regarding lighting and the
City's ordinance is relatively vague in terms of how it regulates lighting. Barnhart stated this is an
opportunity to define what negative lighting is or better define what glare is and then provide a
mechanism to address lighting. Barnhart indicated Staff has not been able to really address some of the
concerns because the current ordinance is so vague. As an example, light that causes glare or heat is a
violation of the ordinance but it comes down to what is glare and what is heat.
If the Planning Commission sees that as a concern,the draft ordinance defines what glare is, which is the
sensation produced by one or more luminaires within the visual field that are sufficiently greater than the
luminance to which the eyes are adapted,which causes annoyance, discomfort, or loss in visual
performance and visibility. The basic concept is that a bright light in a dark room is glare and would be
considered a nuisance.
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Barnhart stated under the proposed language, any nonconforming would be allowed to remain. In
addition,the language identifies criteria for a foot candle so Staff will have something to measure against.
The criteria states that"lighting which casts light on adjacent resident property that exceed four-tenths
foot candles as measured at the property line for a period longer than two hours. Barnhart indicated
moonlight is 3 foot candles.
The second issue being address with the ordinance is living walls. Barnhart noted Orono has placed a
strong level of protection on lake views from the residential lakeshore lots to the lake. The City Council
in the past has been reluctant to make changes to the landscaping ordinance because once you start
regulating landscaping, it can become a slippery slope. A living wall means a combination of evergreen
plants that are six feet in height and planted in such a manner that their spacing is equal to the width of the
plant. Non-evergreen trees would not constitute a living wall.
Barnhart noted the City does not allow fences in the 0-75 foot zone and that this ordinance proposes that
living walls also not be allowed.
Landgraver asked whether it could be described in a different way than plants that are six feet in height
and planted in such a manner so the spacing is equal to the width of the plant.
Barnhart stated generally arborvitaes or evergreens have a described width. If the width of the plant is
four feet and they are planted every four feet apart,half of that plant is two feet, and if it touches the other
half of the next plant, so a living wall has essentially be created. Barnhart stated if they are planted
further apart and there is an opening, it would not be considered a living wall.
Lemke asked whether the ordinance should say at least six feet in height.
Barnhart stated the language could be changed if the Planning Commission determines it is appropriate.
Leskinen asked if there is a prescribed width of the living wall that would trigger this.
Barnhart stated that is not being proposed but that could be added if the Planning Commission desired.
Leskinen stated that would help clarify what a living wall is.
Schoenzeit noted arborvitaes also grow in other directions, and when they are on the property line,they
are growing into the neighbor's yard and essentially taking their property.
Barnhart stated this is regulating the screening characteristics and that the ordinance does not cover that.
Schoenzeit noted an existing living wall would be allowed to be grandfathered and replaced. Schoenzeit
stated in his view it would be just like someone rebuilding a new house and having a clean slate.
Schoenzeit stated the goal should be to get rid of these.
Barnhart stated the City would look at it as a nuisance primarily and it would not necessary be
grandfathered in. Staff did look at it from a regulatory standpoint but discarded that.
Berg asked whether it can be replaced if it exists now and it dies.
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6:30 o'clock p.m.
Barnhart stated it could not be replaced. Barnhart stated there is a distinction between a nuisance issue
and a nonconformity. Barnhart stated the ordinance is not regulating where the trees can be and provides
a distinction between a living wall and what is naturally growing.
Thiesse asked whether the living wall can be past the 75-foot setback or the average lakeshore setback.
Barnhart stated it would be the 75-foot setback.
Schoenzeit stated if the City does not have some firmer rules, it may come down to neighbor arguing with
neighbor. Schoenzeit noted Council Member Walsh has said that the City forces neighbors to fight and
bring litigation because the City is not helping, and anything the City can do to help this, he is in favor of.
Thiesse stated his preference would be to include the average lakeshore setback and to have the spacing s
be two times the width or five feet on center with an opening of only a few inches.
Berg asked if there are a lot of complaints about this.
Barnhart stated there are a fair number of them and that he sees the potential for more.
Thiesse asked if the glare definition would also cover reflective light. Thiesse stated reflective light
would likely not reach the limit on the meter but it could still be an annoyance.
Barnhart stated it would not be covered in the ordinance and that the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Barnhart stated the glare would be measured by a light meter.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 11:42 p.m.
Jim Mandel, 3155 North Shore Drive, stated when he sees the row of 25-foot arborvitaes on his
neighbor's property blocking his view of the lake, in his opinion it is a travesty. Mandel stated when
something like this is done in a malicious manner,there is no reason for it, and until the City stops this
type of activity,there will always be someone who takes advantage of it. Mandel stated they happen to
be victims of a living wall and that they hope it doesn't happen to someone else.
Mandel stated a living wall is invasive, deteriorates property values,closes the property in, and is
annoying. Mandel noted in a number of situations the lot lines along the water do not run perpendicular
and so it is possible for someone who lives on the water to construct living walls that totally block the
view of the water for their neighbors when they live on the lake. Mandel stated a person who lives on the
lake pays a lot in taxes and that they should be able to enjoy their view of the lake.
Mike Russin, 3175 North Shore Drive, stated he understands the issues with the living wall and that he
lives with it also. Russin stated he is here tonight, however, to talk about the lighting issues. Russin
noted Staff defines it as a nuisance, which is how he views it as well.
Russin indicated he has spent some time looking on the web at other cities' light ordinances and they tend
to classify a lighting nuisance as a private nuisance that is an interference with a person's enjoyment and
use of his land. The law recognizes that landowners are those in rightful possession of land, have the
right to unimpaired condition of the property and to reasonable comfort and convenience in its
occupation. Examples of a nuisance include things that would interfere with the comfort, convenience or
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health of an occupant, and include such things as foul odors, noxious gasses, dust, loud noises, excessive
light or high temperatures. In addition,the following factors should be considered: Extent and duration
of the disturbance,the nature of harm, and the motivation of person creating the nuisance.
Russin stated from their standpoint they did not want to ask for something that was unreasonable. Russin
stated he is not sure whether Staff looked at the standards by the Illuminating Engineers Society of
America, but that they have very clear standards. Those standards state that between the hours of 10 p.m.
and 6 a.m., all single and two-family residential developments must conform to certain provisions, and
those laws are sensitive to the property owners' right to use and enjoy their private property without
having to close blinds or curtains on their windows to accommodate another individual's actions.
Russin indicated the provisions basically state that it is unlawful for any person in a residential zone to
maintain lighting upon the premises under their ownership or control so that the beams, rays or reflections
spill out over or onto adjoining or neighboring residential properties as defined in the zoning ordinance of
the city. If said lighting by its degree of intensity or operation interferes with the peaceful operation of
the property of adjoining landowners or unreasonably disturbs the comfort and repose of the adjoining or
neighboring landowners, it shall constitute a nuisance.
Russin stated floodlights that come on before dusk and go off an hour before dawn should be considered a
nuisance. Russin stated closing the blinds or closing the curtains is not the solution and that they have
been experiencing this since October of 2005. Russin stated he appreciates the City addressing this issue
and that he would encourage the City to include some specificity in the language so there is no wiggle
room. Russin stated they would also request that a strong process be put in place in the event the
ordinance is not followed.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 11:50 p.m.
Landgraver asked what the City does after it identifies something as a nuisance.
Barnhart stated in addition to the normal notification,the City could abate the nuisance if the property
owner refuses to do so. Barnhart stated City Code provides better mechanisms and more pronounced
mechanisms to address nuisances than the zoning ordinance. Barnhart stated the challenge in the past
from an enforcement standpoint has been the vagueness of the ordinance and not being sure what glare
means.
Landgraver asked if the City would do the same thing with a living wall.
Barnhart stated the City could cut the living wall down and that they do the same thing with tall grass and
debris. Barnhart stated that is a drastic step but if it has been identified as a nuisance, the City can go in
and fix the properly and bill it back to the property owner.
Schoenzeit stated if the neighbor is told a living wall meets the nuisance and it is cut down,what would
happen if he uses the same hole to plant a different species.
Barnhart stated from a proposal standpoint, he did not want to go full speed ahead and regulate all types
of landscaping. Barnhart stated it is a fine line and that Orono values the trees and landscaping but he did
not want to start regulating all types of landscaping.
Schoenzeit stated the lake is special and it is bold of the City to do this ordinance.
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ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 21,2015
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Barnhart stated if trees are planted in such a way that the apparent attempt is to screen someone's view of
the lake,the person is going to choose an evergreen because then they would get the benefit year-round
and they are not likely to screen the neighbor's view by planting deciduous trees. Barnhart indicated he
tried to draw a balance.
Barnhart stated as it relates to the lighting concerns, lighting offers security, beauty and other things, and
that he attempted to draw the line as measureable at the property line. Barnhart stated everyone should
have the ability to have security lighting on their property and that he does not want to take that right
away. Barnhart stated he is attempting to balance those goals.
Landgraver stated the spacing for the living wall needs to be twice the width of the plant.
Thiesse stated someone's view could be impacted when the trees or shrubs are staggered as well.
Leskinen stated given the lateness of the meeting, she would suggest tabling the application,which would
also allow Staff to tighten up the language.
Landgraver moved,Thiesse seconded,to table Application No. 15-3784,City of Orono,Text
Amendment Related to Definitions: Lake Yard Landscaping,Residential Lighting,and Living
Walls. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
13. REPORT FROM PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVES ON CITY
COUNCIL MEETINGS HELD ON AUGUST 24,2015,AND SEPTEMBER 14,2015.
Landgraver stated he attended the August 24 City Council meeting but has nothing to report.
Lemke stated he attended the September 14, 2015, City Council meeting. Lemke stated the Sharratt
application was approved as well as the preliminary plat for Stubbs Bay Road. The application on North
Shore Drive was approved on a split vote.
14. OTHER ISSUES FOR DISCUSSION
None
ADJOURNMENT
Schoenzeit moved,Landgraver seconded,to adjourn the Orono Planning Commission meeting at
12:03 p.m. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
ATTEST: ,;�
;,
Denise Leskinen, Chair
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' �' ` ' MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 21,2015
6:30 o'clock p.m.
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