Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout20-09 ExB 03-09-2020 CC MinutesMINUTES OF THE ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING Monday, March 9, 2020 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 1 of 6 19. LA20-000009 – DON GAMBLE O/B/O RICHARD A AND KIM A EDWARDS, 2480 AND 2474 CARMAN STREET, SKETCH PLAN Barnhart stated the sketch plan is a proposal to split two lots down the middle which exist on a shoreline. This will create two lots north of the inlet and two lots south of the inlet. The applicant represents both property owners for this purpose. The lot has two different zoning districts: the north lot requires a ½-acre zone, and the area south is a minimum of 1 acre. The two lots north of the inlet conform to lot area and lots width. The two lots south cannot meet the lot area requirements. In addition, the parcel to the west cannot meet the lot width requirement. The project is predicated upon the Council’s support of some waivers or variances to allow additional lots. Not a lot of work has been done because the City Council historically has not supported additional density at the lakeshore. Johnson, referencing the displayed aerial photograph, asked if the yellow line down the middle is the existing property line, Barnhart stated he was correct. Barnhart indicated the Planning Commission reviewed the sketch plan and recognized the inherent challenges with the amount of land but did not support a waiver. Mr. Don Gamble, 10704 Water Lily Lane, Woodbury, said he grew up on Lake Minnetonka and knows the lake very well. It is a unique property and situation. The south properties cannot be conforming because they are not attached to other land; the north properties would be conforming if they were on their own. Looking through a lot of the historical information on City planning and Navarre planning, everyone has noticed the lots and said, “What a great opportunity.” But it is only a great opportunity if they are on their own. He does not know what would happen to them if they could not be split off. He indicated the south houses are nonconforming whether the north portions of the lot are there or not. Walsh asked Mr. Gamble whether he represented the property owners. Mr. Gamble said he does; he is a real estate developer/broker. Mr. Gamble said the properties have been for sale at times and there are two different buyers: people that want the houses or want the land; they don’t want both. He stated he talked to the City to see if they had any interest in having commercial in the area. The City indicated they could not change zoning. He said various Councils and community interests have thought about what to do and what can happen there. Johnson stated the City Council does not have a history of making subdivisions to create nonconformity. Mr. Gamble noted it was not creating a nonconformity. Johnson said making four parcels instead of two does create nonconformity for two of the four. MINUTES OF THE ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING Monday, March 9, 2020 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 2 of 6 Seals asked if the property could be created into three parcels. Mr. Gamble stated it is nonconforming the way it currently exists. Johnson commented that it is lawfully nonconforming at this point and there are hardcover benefits. Mr. Gamble said the property owners do not get the benefit of the land north of it to use as hardcover for south calculations. The only calculations for the south hardcover are the houses that are there. Barnhart, Walsh, and Seals stated he gets the benefit of the hardcover because it is gross for the lot. Johnson said the big issue is the 75 feet from the lake because everything is a variance. The City Council is more rigid on the hardcover within 75 feet. Crosby noted the property owners are taking advantage of the hardcover because of the north land. Walsh suggested a scenario where the two wooded lots became one lot which would conform and it is 1.2-1.3 acres and the other lots are individual lots. He asked if those lots stand on their own how much hardcover they have, and whether that would make them nonconforming. Barnhart stated it may. He did not do an analysis of the hardcover for the south lots. The two north lots conform in area and width. The only way to make the south lots conforming is to combine them, although he understands there are two dwelling units there. Seals stated it is not that the City is not interested in commercial; however, the residents in the area would be opposed to that. Councilmembers discussed the zoning in the area which was ascertained to be residential. Crosby stated the owners get the benefit of the hardcover from the land and they should have added it on to 2414 and 2440 as their backyard. Mr. Gamble commented that it is his job to maximize the use of the land in its current situation and asked how he would do that. Crosby and Mr. Gamble discussed whether the land to the north was helpful regarding hardcover for the lots on the south. Johnson stated there was a lot of hardcover on the 2474 address. Mr. Gamble stated when it was surveyed, a hardcover survey was done. MINUTES OF THE ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING Monday, March 9, 2020 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 3 of 6 Johnson asked where the property line was for the survey. Mr. Gamble said that for the north and south lots it is in the middle of the lagoon. He stated it was unique that both owners are thinking about doing something. Neither of them are buyers; they are both sellers. It seems unusual that something cannot happen to those pieces of property such as different zoning. Walsh indicated the City would have to change zoning and density. Mr. Gamble suggested keeping the zoning. He said the houses to the south are like all the neighbors’ houses -- smaller, nonconforming lots -- so it is not asking for a change. Walsh noted there are a lot of neighborhoods similar to that: several small houses and a large house. Crosby asked what the width of the two lots was. Mr. Gamble said the Shoreline Drive is 125 feet. When you get to the 2480 address, it bumps out bigger. Barnhart indicated 2474, north of the inlet, is about 136 feet; 2480, north of the inlet, is about 121 feet. The requirement is 100 feet. For the west side property south of the inlet, it is 124 feet, and the width requirement is 140 feet. On the east side, the measurement is 155 and the requirement is 140 feet. Barnhart said he did not know how to measure something when it has three sides but it is something that can be dug into. Johnson, Walsh, and Seals said they did not see how the City had a path for Mr. Gamble to follow for a subdivision. Crosby noted that there would be hardcover issues on the south lots. Rief said if there was a single buyer who would combine the lots, build one house on the peninsula and then subdivide the top two, that would make it conforming. Crosby noted the bottom two were the only ones in compliance currently. Rief indicated if one owner was not willing to buy the other owner out, the scenario would not work. Crosby added that the entrance would then need to come off of Shoreline Drive. Mr. Gamble stated there is an entrance off of Shoreline Drive. The County put in curb cuts for the lots so there is access. MINUTES OF THE ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING Monday, March 9, 2020 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 4 of 6 Walsh reiterated the City Council did not have a path for the applicant. Mr. Gamble said he has read through hundreds of pages and listened to the City Council, and although it is complex, there is usually a path if it makes sense. He asked what the path would be if there was one. Walsh stated the path would be to give variances for all of the densities and change the zoning which is something the City Council is not interested in doing. There is no rule that this situation fits in without having to change all of the rules. Mr. Gamble asked if this was a highly unique situation. Johnson said there have been some very bizarre situations, which is why he knew hardcover could be used regardless of where it is, because people take advantage of the hardcover as a whole. They apply it to their area, the City does not allow them to subdivide it, and then a nonconforming situation is created. Mr. Gamble noted if one of the issues with the south lots is that they are not a full acre, if he could add the hardcover from the north land, then the only nonconforming part is the width. Barnhart said that regardless of where you cut the line, the lots south of the inlet are not conforming due to size and for one of them it is both size and width. Crosby stated the 75-foot setback from the shoreline is also an issue. Walsh indicated there are people on 3 acres in a 2-acre zone, every house is on ¼ of an acre and they want to split them up. The City won’t let them because it has to be conforming. Mr. Gamble said one of the owners had a question about 2470 and 2490. Mr. Scott Edwards, 2474 Carman Street, said his neighbors to the west had three lots, combined the three lots and redrew the lot lines to create two lots, and two new buildings were put on them in the past two years. Both lots are not wide enough and are about .5-.6 acres. He asked why that was approved when it is a bigger change. Walsh said you have a right to build on a nonconforming lot; it is a question of what you have a right to build on it. Mr. Edwards noted there were three lots, now there are two, and there was a change; it wasn’t simply that it was the same lot and a new house was put on it. Councilmembers explained that the situation was made better. MINUTES OF THE ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING Monday, March 9, 2020 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 5 of 6 Johnson commented if the owner wanted to take two lots and make them into one, a conversation could be had with the City Council. Mr. Edwards said he does not understand how a house on 2490 could be approved that was not there before. Walsh stated the Council could not comment on something they have no knowledge about and that the incident did not happen two years ago. Mr. Edwards stated the buildings were two years ago but the approval process was probably in 2017. He believes there is an additional house that was not there before on nonconforming lots that were not there before. The density actually increased in the zoning area, which does not make sense to him. Walsh and Crosby said the Council cannot comment on or answer for something another Council might have done. Walsh also indicated it is not the City Council's job to find a solution, only to give guidance. Mr. Gamble asked if 2480 decides to go ahead, which meets the width requirement and it has a small area that would have to change, could that be allowed. Johnson told Mr. Gamble that he would need to present the facts. Mr. Gamble said he submitted all of the information. Walsh explained that basically Mr. Gamble was asking the City Council to approve a nonconforming lot from a conforming lot. He does not think the Council has ever done that. Barnhart explained that the discussion has been about the sketch plan, and the formal application would be to apply for a variance and the applicant would have to prove practical difficulties. It would be reviewed at a public hearing by the Planning Commission and Council. If the Council approves the variance, he could submit his preliminary plat. Crosby noted the applicant could not create his own practical difficulty. Mr. Gamble asked if there was somewhere he could go at the City to see if a precedent has been set. Barnhart stated Mr. Gamble would have to provide a data request for specific information and the City would then provide that. That would be done with the City Clerk’s office. Walsh commented that he would need to build his argument with similar situations that have occurred. MINUTES OF THE ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING Monday, March 9, 2020 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 6 of 6 Seals noted there were plenty of weird situations around the lake, depending on what you buy. Mr. Gamble stated he understands these are the last two lots of people that used to own the farm. Zoning changed along the way and somehow it got zoned separate. Obviously, there was an intention that the lots be developed separately and in a different manner. Crosby asked for the zoning on the lots. Barnhart said that south of the inlet, it is zoned LR1B. Walsh stated the wooded area is ½-acre. Walsh reiterated if the applicant can build an argument that shows the Council that this needs a resolution that shows a practical difficulty which makes sense, he would be supportive of it. Mr. Gamble said it makes sense to make the attempt for the benefit of the City. Seals stated it would be up to Mr. Gamble because that is why the property owners hired him.