HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-17-1988 Planning MinutesffimiTSS OF THE PLARNIHG COMMISSIOH HEBTIHG OCTOBBI 17« 1988
ATTSHDANCB 7:00 P.M.
The Orono Planning Commission met on the above date with the
follov;ing members present: Chairman Kelley, Johnson, Bellows,
Cohen, Moos and Hanson. Planning Commission member Biown arrived
at 7:15 p.m. The following represented the City staif; Building
& Zoning Administrator Mabusth, Assistant Planning 6 Zoning
Administrator Gaffron, Public Works Director Gerhardson, City
Engineer Cook and City Recorder Scheffler. Council Represent a*. ve
Goetten was also present.
#1348 O. LARRT LEE
1050 GARDEN LANE
CLASS III PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
PUBLIC HEARING 7:35 - 8:35
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
The applicants' representative, Mr. James Krautkremer, was
present.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth explained that this application
involved a 30 Lot subdivision of a 36.7 acre parcel. There are
currently 5 separate owners of this property; Palmers, Valek,
Sollner, Hawkinson, and O. Larry Lee/Yorktown Development.
Mabusth went on to say that Lots 5, 6 and 10 require a lot width
variance. Lot 11 on Tonkaview will require a lot area variance.
Kelley asked what the lot width standard was? Mabusth replied
140' must be met to the rear of the front yard setback line which
is 35' in from the street. The existing house on Lot 9 should be
shown on the plat in order to confirm that the setbacks are met
from the new division lines. A through road is being proposed
from Tonkaview to West Branch Road. The property will be sewered
but municipal water is not available. The developers will be
responsible for providing municipal services to the property, as
well as the road.
Planning Commission member Johnson asked if the road on the
east side by West Branch was located on half of each lot line.
Mabusth confirmed that and added that the road had already been
platted with previous subdivisions.
Mabusth explained that there are certain vacations proposed
with this application. The City's standards have changed in that
the City only asks for roadways to be 50 feet in width. The
existing road is 60' in width and the City will ask for a
reduction. It may be more appropriate to vacate the entire road
and put in the new road at the 50' width. The applicant is
proposing to vacate a portion of Highview Lane, as well as a
10' alley that extends along the north lot lines of lots within
the Burquist-Wicklund Addition that runs along Tonkaview.
The City has explored the possibility of a future access
HIHUTBS OF THE PLUHRIBG COMMISSIOH : • A:TIHG OCTOBER 17, 1988
11.HIZONIEG PILE #1348-0. lARRT LEE COHTIEl
corridor being platted to the Morgart property. There is
currently a connection with Highview Lane, but due to steep
grades and the potential of major tree removal, this would not be
a practical access. Mabusth explained a proposal submitted by
the City Engineer for an access. Mabusth observed that due to
the alignment of the property lines and the major wetlands, this
option may not be acceptable. Chairman Kelley inquired as to
whether a rezoning would be necessary for the two northern lots?
Mabusth responded that the property would not be rezoned.
Mr. Kraatkremer began his presentation by providing a bit of
history regarding the proposed subdivision. He said that working
with all of the property owners and developing the area as a
whole, was a much better approach than attempting development a
parcel at a time. Kelley asked about the Soskin subdivision
application. Mr. Krautkremer stated that he also represented Mr.
Soskin. Kelley suggested that the Soskin matter be included with
the O. Larry Lee matter when it is next presented. Mr.
Krautkremer explained that his intention was to do that.
Mr. Krautkremer said that he had seen the house plans
proposed for one of the lots. He described the house as
"fabulous" and added that all homes to be built in the area would
enhance the surroundings and topography. He said that he had
communicated with many of the adjacent property owners and
apprised them of the development proposals. Mabusth interjected
that at this time, the major concern of the neighboring
properties and the City was drainage.
Mabusth apprised the Planning Commission and concerned
neighbors of the the current drainage pattern. Mabusth explained
that the construction of the road would redirect the drainage so
it would flow between the shared lot lines of Lot 6 and 7 and up
to the roadway to a drainage ditch located on Lot 1 of the Soskin
property. Kelley asked if the runoff would flow through piping
or a swale? Mabusth answered that it would flow through pipes.
Mr. Krautkremer added that the size of the piping would be
determined at a later time. Krautkremei rurther advised that
there was a retention pond that would be expanded to handle the
runoff. Mr. Valek, one of the property owners, had indicated
that the pond would be an amenity for the properties.
Mr. William Bull, a property owner to the south, expressed
his concerns over the proposed drainage. He explained that the
proposed area was very low and had a tendancy to hcive 8 to 12
inches of water every Spring. Kelley asked where the water
drained from that area. Mr. Bull said that currently, it did not
drain anywhere. Mr. Bull added that in previous years, from the
middle of his property to the back property line and 50' on the
other side of his property, there is a pond. Mr. Krautkremer
addressed this concern by saying that he would be willing to work
with Mr. Bull.
MIHUTBS OF THB PLAHIilHG CONMISSIOH TING OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZONING FILE #1348-0. lARRT LEE C0NTIN1
Kelley asked where the stor*n pipe would run. Mabusth
explained that it would run up the roadway to Lot 1 of the Soskin
property. Mr. Krautkremer stated that the water would then run
across a form of riprap, to prevent erosion, and continue along
to the present drainage area. Kelley jiiked how the drainageway
would be protected downstream? Krautkremer replied that the
water that drains on the west side of street would be absorbed by
the grassed yards on the properties once they are developed, as
now the ground is bare with no ground cover. The size of the
pond and piping would be adequate to handle the 100-year storm.
Mabusth pointed out that both drainage pipes would run into a
drainage swale on the Hennesey property. It would then go into
the Wood's property and would come out near the Schultz property.
The City is proposing to re-direct drainage to the northeast
through a designated wetlands. The developer will be asked to
install a storm sewer along the west side of Wildhurst Trail to
the intersection of the Cronstrom's driveway. From that
location, the drainage will run into the wetlands within the
Cronstrom property and will eventually drain into Forest Lake.
The Minnehaha Creek Watershed District will be reviewing the
drainage proposals to determine the impact upon the surrounding
areas.
Planning Commission member Bellows expxessed her concern
about the severe elopes existing over 75 to 80 percent of the
proposed site. She said that the slopes would not only create a
problem for drainage, but also for building houses, driveways,
roads, etc. She added that she had great reservations about the
application because of the extreme sensitivity of the area.
Kelley concurred. Mabusth said that once the hydraulic
information was received the issues of slopes and runoff could be
better reviewed.
Mr. Terry Pate, 1131 Wildhurst Trail, disagreed that sod
and other developing would decrease the amount of runoff. Ms.
Pam Wood was concerned about affected persons in the area not
receiving information from the City or the Developers of the
proposal. She stated that the development of the area was being
done little by little, as opposed to comprehensively. Kelley
suggested that a meeting be held between the Developers and all
of the property owners whose property may be impacted by the
development of this area. Ms. Wood agreed. Planning Commission
member Cohen asked how many lots in total were being proposed?
Mabusth stated that there would be 37 lots, including the Soskin
development.
Chairman Kelley commended Mr. Krautkremer on his efforts to
deal with all of the property owners. It could have taken years
to have each separate property owner come forth with their
individual subdivision proposals. He reminded everyone that
there would be no rezoning required and that the properties would
be sewered. He added that this areas was going to be developed
Minors OF THE PLMnilllG O ISSIOH MBBTIliG OCTOBER 17, 1988
80H1HG FILE #1348-0. lARRT LEE C0ETIM1
sooner or later. He agreed that the expressed concerns were
valid and further planning and review was required. Mr. Pate
inquired as to whether he had any input as to the water running
over his property. Planning Commission member Johnson told him
that what was already running through his property could not be
changed .
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohen, seconded
by Planning Commission member Kelley, to table this matter, with
the recommendation that the applicant spend time consulting with
the neighborhood before the application is presented again to the
Planning Commission. Mabusth suggested that the other concerned
parties who were present at the meeting be allowed to
express their concerns.
Ms. Joan Voit, 4490 Forest Lake Landing, stated that her
number one concern was runoff. The other concern she had was the
possibility of Highview Road being vacated and increased traffic
on Wildhurst Trail. Mr. Jerry Dolezal, 4650 Tonkaview Lane,
asked whether a financial determination had been discussed. Ms.
Karen Heit, 1153 Elmwood Avenue, suggested that all persons
residing on Forest Lake be notified of the Developer/concerned
parties meeting. Mr. Lyle Rahn, 1146 Wildhurst Trail, indicated
that he would like more detailed information pertaining to the
drainage. Ms. Kathy Sawicki, 4510 North Shore Drive., was
concerned about the quality of the runoff and its impact on
Forest Lake. Mr. Steven Valek, 4720 Tonkaview Lane, addressed
the issue of drainage. He said most cf the runoff already
exists, and that it will continue to run whether there is any
development in that area or not. He believed that placing sod in
the area would help alleviate some of the drainage. Mr. Will?am
Bull, 4690 Tonkaview Lane, said he would be the corner lot on
Tonkaview and Garden. His concern involved the need to have a
through road all the way to the golf course. Mr. Gary Welsh,
1214'Wildhurst Trail, said that there would be significant
discussions involving this subdivision. He believed that storm
sewers were a larger issue than sewers. He said that he gets mud
and quite a bit cf runoff across his lawn already. He observed
that in some cases, comprehensive development wculd not prove as
beneficial as piecemeal development. He also mentioned the fact
that his wife was denied the request to take information
pertaining to this application out of the City offices prior to
the Planning Commission meeting. Mr. Mike Kelley, 4735 Tonkaview
Lane, questioned what would happen if the determinations made
from the hydrology reports were wrong? He further asked how the
City was going to deal with the existing problems of the lift
station, in any event? He added that he would like to see the
covenants or building criteria that were going to be enforced.
Chairman Kelley asked why this property could not be
developed under the guidelines of a PRD? Zoning Administrator
Mabusth stated that may be possible and she would further
tamms of the puyniiiiG cofiiassiOH hfetihg October 17,19S8
the Crystal Bay Road
Z0EIE6 FILE #1348-0. lARRY LEE COMTIHUBD ^ ^ *. i*.
investigate that possibility with the developer but that it is
her understanding that the developer wants to develop the
property as a conventional plat.
Mr. Bull enlightened the Planning Commission that there was
an area* near his property that was a favorite party area. He
believed that developing the area would put an end to the
loitering and partying.
Kelley thanked the neighbors for attending the meeting and
sharing their concerns. He suggested that a person from the
Cityr as well as a Planning Commission member, attend the meeting
of the Developers and the concerned parties.
Planning Commission member Brown observed that there was one
lot in the proposed development that was under an acre. Kelley
noted his observation. Motion, Ayes=7, Nays=0, Motion passed.
CITY OF OROHO
CRYSTAL BAT ROAD
COHDITIOMAL USE PERNlTAMtlAHCE
SECOND REVIEW
There were many residents from
neighborhood present for this matter.
Chairman Kelley began by reading a letter that had been
received from the City of Minnetonka Beach. The letter stated
that Minnetonka Beach was opposed to the closing of Crystal Bay
Road. Kelley added that this matter was not as much a planning
issue as it was merely an application to repair damage to the
road.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth corrected the statement in the
staff memo that guard posts would be installed rather than a
guard rail.
Mr. DuWayne Schibilla expressed his confusion over where
exactly the posts would be placed. City Engineer Cook stated
that he did not know exactly where the posts would be installed,
it would depend upon where the cave—ins occurred. Gerhardson
added that it would be in the areas where blacktop has been
washed away. Cook stated that the original intent was to
preserve Crystal Bay Road so it would not fail any more than it
already had. Cook added that there was approximately 60 to 80
posts and they would sit approximately 2' off of the road.
Planking would be installed between the road and the bank, and
then sand would be filled in. There would be anywhere from 3' to
6* left exposed toward the lake until the property owner restore
the bank. The need for posts would only be in severe areas,
where there was a considerable slide that took out the bank up to
the edge of the blacktop.
NIHDTBS OF THE PIANMIHG COMMISSION TING OCTOBER 17, 1988
CITY OF OROHO/CRTSTAL BAY ROAii COHTIN1
Public Works Director Gerhardson explained that the only
purpose of the posts is to serve as a notifier that the bank is
gone on the other side.
Mr. Lo Frano suggested that it may be best for this matter
to be tied in with the issue of closing the road. He then
questioned whether or not there was any validity to the City of
Minnetonka Beach's claim that insurance rates would increase for
the residents of Crystal Bay Road due to limited fire access?
Kelley explained that he could not and would not address that
issue. The only fact to be considered is that Minnetonka Beach
had indicated that they wanted the Road to remain open.
Ms. Leesa Anderson explained, in her opinion, the way that
Minnetonka Beach arrived at the conclusion that Crystal Bay Road
should be closed. Ms. Lorraine Moss asked for clarification as
to where the Road was proposed to end.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohen, seconded
by Planning Commission member Hanson, to recommend approval of
this application. Mr. Tim Schupp asked for clarification of the
proposal. City Engineer Cook explained the proposal again.
Bellows stated that she was confused as to why the residents had
concerns about the City correcting a hazardous situation. She
asked what their specific concerns were, Mr. Lee Erger said hio
concern involved the original proposal to place a guardrail along
the edge of the Road. He added that he has had a snow fence in
front of his residence for over a year. There was confusion as to
how much repair work the City intended to do. Mabusth
interjected that the City was just going to repair the roadbed.
The repair and resoration of the bank would need to be done by
the individual homeowner. Bellows asked if someone could show
the residents exactly where the repair would take place? City
Engineer Cook stated that would have to be done in the field.
Kelley suggested that before this matter went before the City
Council that the City Engineer and City staff marked where the
repairs would be done.
Cohen withdrew his Motion, Hanson withdrew his second. It
was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning Commission
member Cohen, to table this matter until the residents and the
City got together and marked the spots where the repair work
would be done. Kelley notified the residents that they would
need to get a conditional use permit for the fill they would need
to restore their banks. Mr. Ritchie Anderson asked if the City
could send out another letter indicating their intention. Ms.
Leesa Anderson pointed out the fact that sewer problems have been
created due to the disrepair of the Road. Mr. Schibilla stated
that they just had their sewer line routed out and had been told
that they were out of alignment with the main line. Motion,
Ayes=7, Nays=0, Motion passed.
mmjTBS OP THB PIAHHIHG CQWIISSIOH ZrA rriHG OCTOB^ 17r 1988
#1309 6BRALD HELSOS
1629 BOmrS POIHT ROAD
APTER-THB-PACT COMDITIOHAL USB PBRMIT/VARIAHCB
SBCORD RBVIBW
The applicant was present for this matter.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth explained that this matter had
been previously review by the Planning Commission. At that time,
direction was given to have the City engineer and staff meet on
Mr. Nelson's property to determine the best course of action to
take. It was determined that allowing the pond with underlining
to remain, but the fabric under the landscaping would need to be
removed. The path of crushed rock with underlying fabric will
also be allowed to remain, as it facilitates drainage and
prevents futher erosion.
Mr. Nelson stated that he totally agreed with staff's
recommendations.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohen, seconded
by Planning Commission member Bellows, to recommend approval of
#1309, per staff's recommendations and conditions. Notion,
Ayes=7, Nays=0, Motion passed.
#1311 JOHN ft SUSAN PURDT
1975 PAGBRNBSS POINT ROAD
VARIANCB/RBFBRRBD BACK TO
PLANNING COMMISSION BY COUNCIL
Mrs. Purdy was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning & Zoning Administrator Gaffron explained
that the Purdys had revised their application as recommended by
the Planning Commission. The addition was now being proposed for
the side of the existing house and would not encroach any farther
toward the lake. The Purdys currently have a 160 s.f. deck, which
does not have any plastic beneath it. They have removed plastic
from beneath the rockbeds as a condition of approval of a 1985
application, and have replaced it witn permeable fabric. There is
still a garage proposal for the future that the Purdys have put
on hold. There is an existing shed that is 52 s.f. Chairman
Kelley inquired as to whether the Purdys still used the shed.
Mrs. Purdy stated that the shed was not needed and they had
intended to remove it. She added that they have removed more
hardcover than they were asked to do.
Chairman Kelley clarified that hardcover in the 0-75' zone
was the issue. Gaffron responded in the affirmative and added
that tho total hardcover would be 22.8% in the 0-75' zone. In
the 75-250' zone, hardcover would be 33%. Gaffron stated that
the areas underlain with fabric were included in the hardcover
calculations. Kelley asked if it would be possible to place the
trampoline on grass, as opposed to rock underlain with fabric.
Mrs. Purdy stated that grass would not grow in that area.
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING CONMISSIOH STING OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZONING FILE #13I1-PURDT CONTINUED
Bellows suggested using sand. Cohen added that if grass were
used, that area would not be considered in the hardcover
calculations. Mrs. Purdy replied that they would remove the
fabric if the Planning Commission absolutely required them to do
so. She added that placing the fabric was costly and was done in
order to comply with the conditions of approval given by the
Council in their 1985 application.
Kelley asked how much hardcover was actually being added.
Gaffron replied there would be an increase of approximately 40
s.f. in the 0-75* zone. Planning Commission member Johnson
stated that the revised proposal was a reasonable alternative and
was a fair compromise.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Johnson, seconded
by Chairman Kelley, to recommend approval of a hardcover
variance, subject to staff recommendations. Motion, Ayes=7,
Nays»0, Motion passed.
#1323 JON N. PAPAS
3369 CRYSTAL BAT ROAD
AFTBR-THE FACT VARIANCES
SECOND REVIEN
The applicant was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that this application involved an after-the-fact
request for a deck. A variance for hardcover in the 0-75* zone
would be required, along with an average lakeshore setback
variance. This matter was previously heard by the Planning
Commission, and was tabled pending submittal of a survey, which
has since been received. The hardcover in the 0-75* zone prior
to the construction of the deck was 20.7%, the deck has increased
that amount to 26.3%.
Mr. Papas informed the Planning Commission that the deck was
three-fourths completed. He did not realize that he needed a
permit to construct the deck and stopped work immediately when a
stop work order was issued. He said that he had received letters
from his neighbors indicating that they had no objections to the
deck.
Chairman Kelley asked Mr. Papas what he considered his
hardships to be? Mr. Papas replied that there was no other place
to put the deck, which he felt would add to the living space on
his property.
Planning Commission member Hanson commented that based upon
a previous approval of an application involving retaining walls
within the lakeshore yard, he felt approval of Mr. Papas*s
application would be appropriate.
8
MIHUTBS OF THE PLAHHIHG COMMISSIOH TIHG OCTOB^ 17, 1988
ZOHIHG PILE 11323-PAPAS COHTIHl
It was moved by Planning Commission member Hanson, seconded
by Planning Commission member Bellows, to recommend approval of
this application, per staff recommendations. Hanson cited the
hardship as being the fact that there was no other reasonable
location in which to build the deck. Motion, Ayes=2, Nays*5.
Mr. Papas asked what harm a deck would have with regard to
runoff. Kelley replied that the comprehensive plan called for
preservation of Lake Minnetonka. The best way to do that is to
control the quality and quantity of the runoff into the Lake by
leaving the ground uncovered so it can absorb as much water as
possible. Kelley added that the Planning Commission was just ?
recommending body for the City Council. The City Council can
overturn any recommendation from the Planning Commission.
Planning Commission member Bellows asked Mr. Papas if there
was any way that the deck could be built off to the side.
Gaffron stated that there was approximately 18' from the east
side lot line to the house. Mr. Papas stated that there really
was no room there. Bellows asked how many feet above grade was
the deck? Gaffron replied approximately 1-1/2*. Bellows
suggested building the deck without a rail, then only the
hardcover variance would be necessary.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohen, seconded
by Planning Commission merber Brown, to recommend denial of this
application, because of the need to be consistent when dealing
with hardcover in the 0-75' zone. Motion, Ayes=5, Hanson and
Bellows Nay, Motion passed.
#1326 ROHALD D. LADKR
200 MATZATA BOULEVARD
CLASS II PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
CONTINUATION OP PUBLIC HEARING
The Affidavit of Publication md Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
The applicant was present for this matter.
Asistant Planning & Zoning Administrator Gaffron explained
that this application involved the creation of a 2-acre building
site from a portion of the Wayzata Country Club property.
Chairman Kelley stated that the most important issue with
this application was drainage. He asked Gaffron to show where
drainage occurred. Kelley then asked where the runoff went once
it passed the south lot line. Gaffron stated that some drainage
occured to the west and some to the south. Bellows and Cohen
disagreed, stating they believed the drainage flowed east.
Gaffron stated that the drainage running off of the property
could be channeled so it would not have a significant effect on
the Hauser property.
MIHUTBS OF THE PIANNING COMMISSIOH MBBTIHG OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZONING FILE #1326-RONALD lAUER CONTINUED
Mr. Leo Hauser explained the current drainage patterns and
conditions. He stated that the landscaping for Mr. Lauer's house
would increase the runoff from melting. This would push drainage
water further into his property and make it very wet and
marshy. He is opposed to this happening.
Mr. Lauer stated that Mr. Hauser would have problems from
his own property because of the slope. Mr. Hauser responded that
he had owned the property for 17 years and did not have any
significant problems to date. He said that any fill brought in
on the Lauer lot, would cause more water to gather on his
property.
Chairman Kelley asked Mr. Lauer what he proposed to do to
prevent a more rapid flow from running off of his property? Mr.
Lauer stated that he had no proposal at this time, but did not
understand why the land could not be contoured so that the water
would flow more to the west, rather than flowing onto the Hauser
property. Kelley informed Mr. Lauer that there could be no
increase in runoff due to the bi’ilding of the house or any
accessory structures.
Mr. Albert C. Greig, stated that he had lived at 137 Chevy
Chase Drive since June, 1955, and had watched the entire area,
including the golf course, develop. Mr. Greig explained his
understanding of the drainage in the area. He stated that the
contours were changed when the golf course was built. He said
that the concerns of Mr. Simmons, Mr. Hauser, Mr. Nelson and
himself involve the fact that Mr. Lauer's house will be built at
an elevation so as to overlook the golf course. This would
involve a 24' depth of fill. The addition of the septic mound
would bring the fill within 220' of the rear property line. The
vegetation currently in that area helps deter runoff to a degree.
Once the fill is brought in and the vegetati -»n xs removed and the
grade increased, there will be an increase in runoff. Planning
Commission member Johnson inquired as to whether Mr. Greig had a
current runoff problem on his property? Mr. Greig stated that
the drainage currently runs across the rear of his property.
Kelley agreed with Mr. Greig's concerns.
Planning Commission member Cohen asked whether the private
access would become a public road. Assistant Planning and Zoning
Administrator Gaffron replied that the applicant had not
discussed that with the parties that own and maintain that road.
Mr. Lauer stated that he would be buying the road from the
Wayzata Country Club. Planning Commission member asked Mr. Lauer
whether he had a purchase agreement? Mr. Lauer stated that he
did and it was contingent upon the approval of his application.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Bellows, to table this application pending
further review and more detailed assessment of the problems on
MIHUTBS OP THE PIANNIHG CQHMISSIOH MBBTIllG OCTOBBR 17, 1988
ZONING FILE 31326-RONALD LAUER CONTINUED
the property. With regard to the drainage, an independent
hydrologist would need to be hired to provide a plan for drainage
control. Kelley also requested grading plans and site plans so
th.at the actual runoff can be determined. The issue of the road
would also need to be addressed and Kelley asked that a
representative from the Wayzata Country Club be present the next
time this matter was before the Planning Commission. Mrs. Hausoir
indicated that she was concerned about the road and private
driveway taking out all of the vegetation that currently acts as
a buffer for their property. Cohen added that safety would be a
major factor should the road become a public road. Motion,
Ayes=7, Nays=0, Motion passed.
NOTE: Mr. Greig's information was accepted by staff for use as
exhibits for this application.
#1329 THOMAS MCNELLIS
355 HOODHILL ROAD
VARIANCES-SECOND REVIEW
The applicant was present for this matter.
A brief review of this application was given by Assistant
Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron. He stated that a
front setback variance was required. The applicant has revised
his proposal by changing the deck and garage, in addition to
moving the location of the house slightly further south. The
applicant now requires only a variance for the front setback
which will be 37' rather than the required 50*. There will no
longer be an encroachment into the wetland setback area, but
applicant requests that the City allow cantilevering of the deck
into the 26' wetland setback.
Chairman Kelley inquired as to the number of houses that
could possibly be built to the north of this property. Gaffron
stated that there is currently one house, with a potential for
one more. Kelley asked the applicant whether the access road was
private or public. Mr. McNellis replied that the road was a
private road that served the old Pillsbury home that is now owned
by John Prudden. Kelley asked about the remainder of the road
that connects with Woodhill. Gaffron stated that Woodhill Road
was actually owned by Woodhill Country Clib. Kelley asked
whether the applicant had any agreement with the owners of the
road in case the heavy construction equipment should damage the
road. Mr. McNellis responded that he would be responsible for
repairing the road if it was damaged.
Planning Commission member Bellows asked how many acres Mr.
Prudden owned. Mr. McNellis replied that he had a little over 8
acres. Bellows observed that there co'ld be 4 houses built in
that location.
Kelley asked how far the building envelope was from the
MIHUTBS OP THE PIAMNIHG COMMISSION TING OCTOBER 17, 1988
•J •ZONING FILE 81329-MCNELLIS CONTIN1
travelled road. Mr. McNeills stated it was 73' to the edge of
the house, but there is a 36' strip of land owned by Mr. Prudden
between his house and the roadway. Mr. Prudden granted an
easement for the purpose of putting in the driveway. Kelley
asked Mr. McNeil is whether he had asked to purchase that land
from Mr. Prudden. Mr. McNellis responded in the affirmative and
added that Mr. Prudden was not able to sell the land because he
wished to maintain 8 acres.
Planning Commission member Johnson commented that he was
comfortable with the proposal and looked upon the deck as an
overhang rather than an actual structure. Bellows indicated that
she would not approve the deck because the applicant knew what
the building envelope was at the time they purchased the
property. She added that she might be willing to approve the
front setback. Hanson concurred. Cohen stated that he was
uncomfortable with the entire proposal. He said the area was
peculiar from the very beginning. He too thought that the
applicant was aware of the problems with the buildability of the
lot at the time he purchased the property. Moos concurred with
Cohen's opinion. Planning Commission member Brown indicated that
due to the unique characteristics of the lot, he would have no
problems with the proposal.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Hanson, to recommend approval of the front yard
setback, and denial of the 4' encroachment into the wetland.
Motion, Ayes=2, Nays=5. It was moved by Planning Commission
member Johnson, seconded by Planning Commission member Brown, to
recommend approval of the front yard setback and the 4*
encroachment into the wetlands. Motion, Ayes=2, Nays=5. It was
moved by Planning Commission member Bellows, seconded by Planning
Commission member Moos, to recommend denial of both the front
yard setback and the 4' encroachment into the wetlands. Motion,
Ayes=4, Kelley, Brown and Johnson. Nay, Motion passed.
Mr. McNellis stated that the hardship involved with his
application had not been discussed. Kelley explained that the
application had been thoroughly reviewed and this was the second
time this matter had been presented. He felt the Planning
Commission was fully aware of the hardships. Mr. McNellis asked
for suggestions as to how he could place the house on the
property. He said he would have a problem with surface runoff if
he were to place the house in another location within the
building envelope. Hanson stated that he understood the
constraints involved, but thought it would be possible to build
within those constraints. Cohen reminded Mr. McNellis about his
right to go before the Council and the fact that the Planning
Commission was only an advisory body. Bellows added that the
motion was necessary so that Mr. McNellis could proceed to the
City Council. She also stated that Mr. McNellis had previously
been given the suggestion to redesign the house to fit within the
MIHUTBS OF THE PIANNIIIG O SSIOH STIliG OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZOHING FILE #1329-lfCHBLLIS CONTINUED
building envelope.
Mr. McNellis reiterated his belief that the Planning
Commission did not understand the environmental hardship involved
with his application. He explained that there was a culvert in
the Prudden Road that brings water onto his property and further
restricts the building envelope. Kelley asked Mr. McNellis
whether or not he was aware of this problem when he bought the
lot? Planning Commission member Johnson recommended that Mr.
McNellis bring the matter to the City Council. He pointed out
the fact that the Planning Commission was split in their
recommendations. Kelley told Mr. McNellis to write down his
hardships and present them to the City Council.
#1330 FULLERTON PROPERTIES, INC.
880 TONNLINE RORD
CLASS III PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
SECOND REVIEW
• Mr. Mark Gronberg, of Coffin & Gronberg, was present as a
representative of the applicants.
Assistant Planning & Zoning Administrator Gaffron stated
that this application was previously reviewed at the September
19, 1988 Planning Commission Meeting. Since that time, soil
borings were taken and soil types determined in those areas that
were questionable. The application involves a seven lot
subdivision along the west side of Townline Road. Gaffron said
that he had been on the building sites with the applicants'
engineer and they had determined that there was at least one, if
not more possible building locations within each lot. The Hamel
soils were not as extensive as originally indicated. Staff
recommended approval of this application.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohen, seconded
by Planning Commission member Brown, to recommend approval of
this application, subject to staff's recommendations and
conditions. Bellows asked what the current park fees were.
Gaffron explained that the fees were based upon the lot size.
Motion, Ayes=7, Nays=0, Motion passed.
#1334 SIDNEY REBERS
715 NORTH BROWN ROAD
CONDITIONAL USB PBRMIT-PRD
CLASS III PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING 9:35 P.M. - 11:15 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
Mr. Peter Jarvis, an Associate of BRW, presented this matter
on behalf of Mr. Sid Rebers. Mr. Jarvis began by addressing the
seven recommendations and conditions of approval prepared by the
city staff. He stated that most of the conditions were agreeable
MIHUTBS OP THE PIAMIIIHG COMNISSlCIi STIH6 OCTOBER 17, 1988
Z0EIB6 FILE «1334-REBERS COHTIHUED
to Mr. Rebers with a few exceptions. Mr. Jarvis also asked for
feedback from the Planning Commission concerning the road. Mr.
Jarvis asked for clear direction as to whether the loop road was
preferred over the cul-de-sac. All seven Planning Commission
member indicated, by an informal vote, that they preferred a loop
road.
Mr. Jarvis proceeded by reporting that Mr. Rebers agreed
with items 1, 2, all easements would be prepared as part of the
preparation of the final plat, 3, 4, 5, and most of 6. Chairman
Kelley interjected that he wished to add another condition in the
subdivider's agreement that would address the preservation of
trees. He began by asking the Planning Commission members for
their feelings on disallowing any accessory structures on the
building pads. This would include second garages, gazebos,
tennis courts, swimming pools. Since the major argument in favor
of the rezoning was tree preservation, then he wanted to see that
the trees were in fact preserved.
Plannining Commission member Bellows believed that
paragraph "c" under item #6 addressed the topic of tree
preservation. Zoning Administrator Mabusth asked why the
proposed covenants did not address accessory structures.
Chairman Kelley apologized for straying from Mr. Jarvis's
explanation of what was acceptable under item #6. Mr. Jarvis
continued by saying that "a" was a problem, "b" was acceptable,
"c" he recommended a .25 FAR (floor/area ratio) maximum, "d"
would be acceptable if the language were modified to say "within
the .25 floating zone within the pad area, as opposed to an
absolute; "e" a 4' wire mesh-type fence is being proposed that
would blend in with the surroundings. Chairman Kelley asked Mr.
Jarvis if he had discussed the issue of the fence with those
neighbors that were concerned. Mr. Jarvis stated that he had
not.
Mr. Jarvis addressed paragraph "a". He stated that the
Planning Commission was confusing the pad area with the lot area.
In looking at the smallest lot, the lot area was 32,000 s.f. The
pad area would be 11,000 s.f. This would allow for setbacks on
each lot of 50' front and back, and 30' on each side. By using
the figures quoted, there would be 21,000 s.f. or just short of
2/3's of the lot preserved. Within the 11,000 s.f. of pad area,
he is requesting that overall limitation for development be a .25
FAR. The FAR normally applied to the entire lot area. If the
it would allow for an 8,000 s.f. structure. That would mean a
footprint of 2,712 s.f. If a garage Is added, the ground cover
would be 3,528 s.f. All in all, there would be ground cover of
3,528 s.f. out of a total 32,000 s.f. lot, which is slightly
above 10% ground cover. Kelley asked for a definition of FAR.
Jarvis replied "floor area ration". Kelley observed that a one
story house could actually have ground cover of 8,000 s.f.
NIHUTBS OF THE PLMffillliG COMMISSIOH TTimG OCTOnSI 17, 1988
ZOHIEG FILE #1334-REBERS COET1M1
Jarvis added that the 8,000 s.f. would still be within the 11,000
s.f. buildinc pad. By allowing this .25 FAR, it would give each
home builder flexibility.
Planning Commission member Bellows stated that she would
favor something similar to an PAR that would limit the
buildability of the lot. Jarvis stated that the Rebers proposal
already provides tar more stringent setbacks than normally
required. Mr. Jaivis cited other examples of how the FAR would
aid in the preservation of the trees and natural vegetation. He
stated that on a 64,000 s.f. lot, the buildable area would be
reduced to approximately 17,000 s.f., due to the setbacks, and
that would allow for sufficient protection of the trees.
Planning Commission member Brown asked for clarification
regarding the side setbacks and whether the trees would remain
undistrubed in those locations. Jarvis stated that those areas
would be the no-grading, no-building, nonencroachment areas.
Bellows interjected that there would be no disturbance, except
for the driveways. Jarvis confirmed that.
Chairman Kelley observed that by disallowing any disturbance
within the proposed setback areas a homeowner would not be able
to lay sod to the street. Mr. Jarvis disagreed with that
interpretation and added that if the Planning Commission wished
to include that restriction they should specifically address it.
Mr. Jarvis thought that restriction to be excessive. Kelley
indicated that allowing sod to the street would contradict Mr.
Jarvis's statement that there could be no disturbance of trees
within 50' of the street.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth stated that the proposed
covenants address preservation within the woodlands preserve
area. The Planning Commission members read the portion of the
covenants that Mabusth referred to. Bellows observed that they
did not specifically address the size of trees that were to
remain or that could be removed. Planning Commission member
Johnson asked what the normal setbacks for a one-acre lot would
be. Mabusth replied 35' for the front, 10' for the side and 30'
for the rear. Bellows stated that she was not concerned with the
setbacks a*; much as the true preservation of the woodlands.
Mr, Ptlaum clarified that the covenants pertained to the
trail syst»,m only and did not attempt address the building lots
themselves. Planning Commission member Bellows stated that she
was looking for more specific limitations with regard to the
building lot. Pflaum reiterated Mr. Jarvis's ideas.
Chairman Kelley asked for feedback from each Planning
Commission member regarding the size of the building pad/building
envelope. Planning Commission member Cohen stated that he
interpreted the term "building envelope" to address the house;
"building pad" would be a more appropriate term for referring to
NIVOTBS OF THE PIANNIHG COMMISSION TING OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZONING FILE #1334-REBERS CONTINUED
the building area. Kelley agreed. Cohen suggested that whatever
Percentage the Planning Commission felt was appropriate for the
building pad, include the accessory structures as well. Cohen
added that the building footprint should be predetermined.
Kelley^ stated that he would have a hard time specifying that.
The building pad was already pre-established because of the
required setbacks for each lot. He did not believe that the home
builder should be limited as to where within that pad he would
place the house. Kelley did want a parentage defined as to how
much of the pad would be buildable. Cohen agreed and added that
the percentage should include everything, the driveway, tennis
courts, the house and garage.
Mr. Jarvis reiterated that the setbacks already allowed for
substantial preservation within the lot. He did not feel that
allowing a percentage of the building pad would be reasonable,
but rather a percentage of the entire lot. Planning Commission
member Bellows suggested that the percentage of buildability
would need to be approximately 50% to 75% of the building pad if
the percentage were based on the pad. Planning Commission member
Cohen asked why such a high percentage would be appropriate.
Bellows explained that the house size that would be allowed using
50% of the pad, would not be very large. She was afraid that
placing such restrictions would encourage smaller, more poorly
designed homes. She stated that Mr. Jarvis's recommendation of
25% of the lot would be more appropriate. She suggested that as
opposed to the FAR however, that the 25% be looked upon in the
same fashion as hardcover. Bellows said the main question would
be whether to allow 25% of the lot or 75% of the pad. Allowing
for 75% buildability of the pad would be the most restrictive in
terms of tree preservation. Kelley and Cohen concurred that 75%
of the pad would be the most effective way to preserve the
maximum trees. Planning Commission member Johnson disagreed and
stated that 50/50 would be more reasonable and would allow more
flexibility for the builders.
The next item to be addressed was the issue of the driveway.
Mr. Jarvis stated that he did not want the driveway to be
included within the 75% buildability of the pad. Kelley asked
about the proposed provisions for vegetation removal within the
designated setback areas. Jarvis said that his intent was that
no trees be chopped down, but if a homeowner wished to remove
shrubbery or install sod in those areas they could do so. Kelley
asked how the 50' front setback should deal with the driveway and
^ Planning Commission member Cohen suggested setting a
specific footage limitation on the size of the driveway. Kelley
suggested that the 50' front setback be excluded from the
restrictions of tree removal. Cohen stated that he was aware of
areas in Orono where trees ove^ 1" in diameter were marked and so
designated to remain forever. He suggested such a procedure be
used in this case. Cohen asked if the driveway could not be
included within the 75% buildability of the pad.
MimJTBS OF THE PLIUlMIliG COMMISSION :i:-K ITING OCTOBER 171 1988
ZONING FILE #1334-REBERS CONTINl
Planning Commission member Bellows suggested
configuration for the building pad that would run all the way to
the street. Mr. Jarvis observed that there could be problems
with such a plan. He suggested that the Planning Commission "let
go" and allow the persons buying the lot the freedom to build on
it as they choose. He added that "trust" was necessary in that
the Planning Commission would have to trust that persons paying
$100,000.00 for wooded lots would not cut down all the trees.
Planning Commission member Cohen stated that there are
$100,000.00 lots with $400,000.00 houses that had absolutely no
trees. There was considerable discussion that followed as to
viable alternatives to this problem. The final resolve was that
80% of the building pad could be hardcover, including the
driveway. Within the 50' front setback, any tree may be removed
for the purpose of installing the driveway.
The next issue addressed was fencing. Mr. Jarvis stated
that they were proposing a 4' wire mesh fence with wood posts for
the northerly boundary. Mr. Platteter presented pictures of the
wooded area abutting his property. The purpose of the pictures
was to show the Planning Commission that the woods were not very
dense. Planning Commission member Hanson asked Mr. Platteter
what kind of fencing he would prefer. Mr. Platteter replied that
it did not matter, as long as it would be a "barrier" and could
not be penetrated. Mr. Platteter also expressed his concerns
about the traffic increase, but was most disturbed about the
possibility of persons trespassing on his property to access the
lake. Chairman Kelley asked whether arborvitae staggered with
4'fencing would be acceptable? Mr. Platteter replied that he did
not wish to cause any unnecessary fii:r.ncial obligations for Mr.
Rebers. Planning Commission member h«illows told Mr. Platteter
that it would be impossible to keep children off of his property
entirely. Planning Commission member Cohen stated that he
sympathized with Mr. Platteter's concerns involving his pool and
horses. Chairman Kelley asked Mr. Platteter if he wanted the
fence to run the entire length of his lot li*ie? Mr. Platteter
confirmed that. Kelley asked whether the Platteter pool was
enclosed in any way? Mr. Platteter stated that it was not, it
was open. Mrs. Platteter reminded the Planning Commission that
they would have a 6 to 1 concentration of houses along that
boundary of their property. That concentration would mean a
complete instrusion of their privacy. Bellows and Hanson both
commented that such a situation was a consequence of having
neighbors. Mrs,. Platteter stated that the reason they moved to
Orono was because of the large lot sizes.
Planning Commission member Johnson expressed his fears of
setting a precedent should the subdivision be fenced off from the
Platteter property. He did not believe that 25 lots on 32 acres
constituted high density housing. Kelley concurred, but added
that he would be willing to recommend a fence around a portion of
the Platteter property. Hanson stated that he could accept a 4*
laHUTBS OF THE PLAliNIKG CONMISSIOH TIHG OCTOBER 17, 1988
II HIZOHIHG FILE 11334-RBBERS COMTIH
fence, but basically he concurred with Johnson and Kelley. Moos
suggested using evergreens, or arborvitae, along the 3 lots for a
visual screen. She reiterated Bellows' opinion concerning
keeping trespassers out entirely. Bellows stated that it would
be up to the Platteters to take proper safety measures pertaining
to the pool. She added that she had a stream runninq through her
property and she could not as] the DNR to protect the stream from
potential trespassers. Bellows questioned whether vegetation
would even grow in that area due to shade. Mr. Jarvis stated
that there would be 100' separating the Platteter property from
the nearest building pad in the proposed subdivision. Johnson
suggested striking item
The other Planning Commission members concurred.
"e" from the staff's recommendations.
The next item addressed was woodland preservation/no-grading
areas. Bellows asked Jarvis what the specific covenants were
that pertained to those areas. Jarvis stated that he wanted to
limit any tree removal within the wooded area of the lots, as
well as the outlets. Kelley asked if the preservation standards
would apply to brush. Jarvis stated that the covenants would not
discourage brush removal for the purpose of tidiness. Kelley
suggested limiting tree removal to trees under 2" within the
entire lot, except in the area where driveways would be located.
Hanson indicated that he wanted the homeowner to have the freedom
to do whatever they desire in the front of the lot. After
considerable discussion, the Planning Commission, as a whole,
agreed that trees 2" and above must remain on all sides of the
lot, except in the location where a driveway would be placed.
The brush can be removed. Steve Pflaum questioned whether dead
or diseased trees could be removed? Kelley stated that they
could, but he would not address the issue of who would determine
whether a tree was diseased or not.
It was determined that Item "d" should read "limit grading
activities to a specific level and require City approval if it is
to be exceeded." Mr. Jarvis said if that condition would relate
back to the 80% of the pad area he would not object.
Planning Commission member Cohen wanted to address the issue
of the access. Planning Commission member Hanson concurred.
Cohen did not believe that the current proposal was safe. Mr.
Kost stated that the access was moved to its proposed location
because staff had indicated that was where they wanted it. Mr.
Jarvis interjected that the access was a non-issue, in that they
would place it wherever the City desired. Planning Commission
member Bellows stated that she disagreed with the City Engineer
and preferred the access to be at the crest of the hill. Hanson
concurred. Cohen stated that he too agreed because traffic would
indeed increase considerably.
Chairman Kelley wanted assurance that all Planning
Commission members understood the proposal concerning the
MINUTES OF THE PLIOINIHG COMMISSICEI MEETING OCTOBER 17, I98ft
ZONING FILE «1334-REBERS CONTIN1
southerly portion of the property by the Little Oak Store.
Planning Commission member Brown indicated that the outlot was
created for the purpose of a road. Mr. Jarvis stated "that it
was unfair that Mr. Wear was not contributing" to the necessary
right-of-way. Should Mr. Wear decide to re-develop his property
prior to the road being developed, Mr. Wear should contribute to
the right-of-way.
Mr. Wear was present and stated that the only consideration
given to him throughout the entire development process was the
fact that he was not donating his land for the right-of-way.
Ms. Maggie Roderick, Dickey Lake Drive, stated she was
opposed to the looped road ever connecting to Pine Ridge Lane.
She said that she was also concerned about the sewer access. She
wanted assurance that it was not going to run across any 2-acre
property. Zoning Administrator Mabusth said that at this time,
there were no definite plans regarding the sewer connection. She
said that she had seen some preliminary engineering plans and the
sewer line was proposed at the south lot line of 2-acre lots on
the south side of Pine Ridge Lane. Mr. Steve Pflaum stated that
he had seen the preliminary engineering report. The sewer line,
if it were to be built by Orono, may come from Long Lake.
Another possibility would be to have the line serve the
commercial area only. He mentioned the Long Lake/Orono/Medina 3—
party power agreement interceptor that comes up Willow Drive to
Highway 12. The concept is to "spur" it at that point, take it
100' north so it could service commercial on either side. This
proposal was only included in a feasibility study. Mr. Pflaum
added that the sewer line cannot go into properties not located
within the M.U.S.A. district.
Ms. Roderick stated that she lived on the corner of Willow
and Dickey Lake Drive. Should a sewer line come down Willow
Drive, would she be assessed? Zoning Administrator Mabusth
stated that the only persons assessed for sewer were those who
benefitted from the sewer. Ms. Roderick asked what would happen
should the City decide at some future time that she had to have
sewer? Mabusth stated that would be very unlikely because of the
established M.U.S.A. line. Bellows interjected that the M.U.S.A.
line could change. Mabusth said that the City would have to
amend the Comprehensive Plan and ask for a realignment of the
M.U.S.A. line.
Ms. Roderick commented that she had moved to Orono because
of the 2-acre minimum lot sizes. The Planning Commission has now
allowed 1-acre lot sizes. She did however, commend Mr. Rebers on
his proposal.
Mr. Wear stated that he already had sewer hooked up to his
property. He wondered whether he would be assessed for the sewer
lines for the Rebers project. Kelley stated that he did not know
NIHUTBS OP THB PLMnilBG COMNISSIOII . I :VIBG OCTOBER 17« X^8S
Z0H1H6 FILE «1334-RBBERS CONTIMI
the answer to that qucrtion and advised Mr. Wear to call the
Mayor. Mr. Wear stated tnat it was time the City determined that
issue.
There were no further comments from the public regarding
this matter and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Bellows, to recommend approval of #1334,
subject to items #1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, as set forth in staff's
recommendations and conditions, and to the additional items as
follows:
1. That the access to the subdivision be moved to the crest
of the hill on Brown Road.
2. The building pad will be defined by the 50' front and
rear setbacks and 30* side setbacks. 80% of the building pad can
be hardcover. The 80% hardcover figure includes the driveway
which will be outside the building pad. Within the 30' and 50'
setbacks, there will be a limit placed on the removal of trees
with diameter of 2" or greater, with the exception of the
driveway area, where any size tree may be removed.
3. The Planning Commission did not recommend a fence for
the north side of the property because of the precedent that
would be set with other subdivision reviews.
Motion, Ayes=7, Nays*0, Motion passed.
NOTE: At this point of the meeting Planning Commission members
Bellows and Cohen departed.
#1344 ROGER RODER
1099 WILLOW DRIVE SOUTH
VARIAMCE
PUBLIC HBARIHG
The applicant was not present and this matter was tabled for
a future date.
#1345 JOHN THEOBALD
4017 NORTH SHORE DRIVE
VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING 11:20 P.M. - 11:30 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
The applicant was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that the applicant is now proposing to attach a new 30'
X 32' garage to the existing 16' x 22' garage. This would make
MIMUTBS OF THE PIANNIHG COMaSSIOH TIHG OCTObKR 17, 1988
XOHIE6 FILE «1345-THBOBALD COHTITOBD
the structure 1323 s.f. The applicant is proposing to revert a
portion of blacktop back to grass. There would be a hardcover
reduction from 30.3% to 25.5% in the 75-250* zone.
Chairman Kelley, upon verification of the 0.6 acre lot size
by Gaffron, stated that he would have a hard time approving such
a large structure on such a small lot. Other Planning Commission
members concurred. Planning Commission member Johnson agreed in
part, but preferred to see the new structure over the existing
garage. Planning Commission member Moos concurred with Johnson.
Mr. Theobald asked if he would still be required to remove
blacktop if he built the addition on top of the existing garage.
Planning Commission member Brown asked if that would allow the
hardcover to remain the same. Mr. Theobald explained that
hardcover would increase. Brown asked how there could be an
increase in hardcover if the addition was built over the existing
structuj. ». Kelley expressed his confusion as to how the
hardcover calculations decreased from 30.3% to 25% by moving the
garage back and making it larger. Brown answered that it was due
to the amount of driveway he was proposing to remove. Brown
asked Mr. Theobald why he could not do the garage as he wanted
and take out enough hardcover so there would be no increase. Mr.
Theobald stated that he could do that if he kept the garage where
it is. He added that he was at 33.5% hardcover before he even
started. Brown preferred to keep the garage below 1,000 s.f. and
either reduce the hardcover or keep it at its current level.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Johnson, to keep the hardcover at or below its
current level of 30.3% and keep the accessory structure to less
than 1,000 s.f. Mr. Theobald asked if he could maintain the old
structure until the new structure was built? Kelley advised him
that would be acceptable. Motion, Ayes=5, Nays=0, Motion passed.
#1346 BIHAR HAGBBRG
740 HORTH ABM DRIVE
VARIAHCB
PUBLIC HBARITC lls30 P.M. - 11:34 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
Mr. Einar Hagberg was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron informed
the Planning Commission that Mr. Hagberg was seeking a hardcover
variance to build a detached storage garage. The current level
of hardcover in the 0-75* zone is 18.6% and would not increase.
However, hardcover within the 75-250* and 250-500* zones would
MIHDTBS OP THE PIAHNING CQMIIISSIOH MBBTI1IG OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZOHIEG FILE il346-HAGBERG CONTIN1
increase.
U »
Chairman Kelley commented that he would not object to the
hardcover increasing in the 250-500' zone, but he did not agree
with the proposed increase for the 75-25C zone. Kelley asked if
there would be any hardcover Mr. Hagberg could remove to keep the
hardcover the same? Gaffron replied that there was plastic
underlying some rockbeds that Mr. Hagberg could remove. Kelley
asked about the road to the back cx Mr. Hagberg's property. Mr.
Hagberg explained that it was a City access for the sewer lines.
Kelley asked what the hardcover in the 75-250* would be if the
road was removed from the calculations. Gaffron replied that the
road was 900 s.f.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Kelley, seconded by Moos, to recommend
approval of #1346, the hardship being the City access road.
Motion, Ayes*5, Nays=0, Motion passed.
#1347 MICHAEL HALLEY HOMES, INC.
2715 PENCE LANE
VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARI^ 11:35 P.M. - 11:55 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
Mr. Robert Martinson was present as a representative of
Michael Halley Homes, Inc., and Mr. and Mrs. Dean Terry, the
property owners were also present.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that the applicants were proposing to construct a
gateway system at the entrance of the driveway serving 2710 and
2715 Pence Lane, about 150* in from Kelley Avenue. The existing
wooden planters will be removed.
Planning Commission member Brown asked why this structure
needed variance approval. Kelley replied that the 4* height did
not conform to the 3-1/2' maximum set forth in the ordinance.
reminded the Planning Commission that if the structure
were placed 30' back from the property line and at least 10' from
the side property line, a setback variance would not be
necessary. Gaffron pointed out the fact that the proposed
structure would encroach on a 10* drainage and utility easement.
If this application is approved, the City will require a Hold
Harmless Agreement so that the City or any other utility company
can make repairs to their utility lines and not ba held
responsible for any damage that might be done to the wall.
Gaffron expressed the concerns of the neighboring property
MINUTBS OF TLF PLAHNIHG CQMMISSIOH TIMG OCTOBER 17, 1988
Z0HIM6 PILE #1347 'MICHAEL BALLET HOMES COHTIIIUBD
owner, Dailey. H: s driveway has been and would continue to be
used for a turnaroun.^ for persons attempting to drive to 2710 and
2715 Pence Lane and encountered "Private Road" signs at the
existing entrance. Kelley observed that such a problem would
exist with or without the security gate. Planning Commission
member Moos asked whether there was a "No Trespassing-Private
Property" sign on the corner of Kelley and Pence Lane. The
applicant stated that there was a sign but it was not at that
location. Mr. Martinson said that such a sign could be placed at
that intersection.
Mr. Steve Bakke, 2765 Pheasant Road, stated that the private
road was previously used by his family for pedestrian traffic to
access Kelley Avenue. Mr. Bakke wondered whether the gates would
restrict such a use. Mr. Bakke stated that part of the driveway
is built on an easement for his property. He wanted to know the
intent of the builder as to freedom of movement. Mrs. Terry
stated that the cars were their concern, not the children walking
through the property. Mr. Martinson informed Mr. Bakke that a
survey had been done and the driveway does appear to "meander"
over the easement.
Kelley asked what the hardships for the variance were. Mr.
Martinson stated that security was the major hardship. Moos
inquired 'as to the number of cars that trespass per day, Mr.
Jerome Skifter stated that there is constant traffic, especially
since Michael Halley had begun construction. Mr. Skifter did not
think the gates were an effective method of dealing with the
problem. To the contrary, it would cause more of a problem for
himself and the Daileys. He said that the gates would be an
enticement for the public, rather than a limiting factor.
Kelley asked if there would be lights on the top of each
monument. Mr. Martinson said that there is a light adjacent to
the structure. Kelley asked whether the entryway was presently
lit? Mr. Skifter said there are currently lights down the
driveway. Mr. Skifter added that his kitchen window looked out
directly at the proposed monuments. He was also concerned about
the removal of trees. Mr. Martinson said that it was his
intention to retain the trees and natural buffer on the property
line, which he estimated to be 5' to 10' in depth.
Ms. Debbie Rice, Kolley Avenue, commented that the Parade of
Homes caused a dramatic increase in traffic. She reiterated Mr.
Bakke's concern about the children using the private road to get
to Pheasant. Mr. Frank Dailey sympathized with the Terry's
desire for privacy. However, he believed that the entrance gate
should be placed farther down and that a turnaround be provided.
Otherwise, he would have more people using his driveway for a
turnaround.
Mr. Terry said he wanted to eliminate the traffic and
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TING OCTOBra 17, 1988
ZONING PILE il347-MICHAKL BALLET HONES CONTINUED
vandalism that had been occurring on hie property. He agreed that
there had been an increase in traffic since construction of the
Michael Halley home began. He said that they were planning on
putting up a security gate anyway.
Kelley asked whether the gates were mechanical? Mr.
Martinson stated that they would be electronic. Kelley asked how
the fire department would geL through in case of fire. Mr.
Martinson replied that the gates would be rode and/or key
activated, besides being activated from the house. The arress
code would be given to appropriate entities that would require
entrance. Kelley informed Zoning Administrator Mabusth that the
issue of emergency vehicle access should be addressed with all
applications for mechanical/electric gates.
Brown asked for clarification about a proposed turnaround.
Mr. Terry said that right outside the monuments they were
proposing to broaden the area to provide a turnaround. Kelley
asked whether the Terrys would be willing to move the gates back
far enough so that a side yard setback would not be required?
Mr. Martinson said that was feasible. Hanson asked if it would
have any impact on the neighboring properties, Gaffron pointed
out that if the gate was moved further away and the 10' and 30'
setbacks were maintained, a variance would not be required. The
qate/wall would become an accessory structure and as long as it
meets the accessory structure setbacks, it could conceivably be
as high as the house.
Mr. Martinson stated that he would like the Planning
Commission to make a recommendation and asked for direction with
regard to the turnaround, Kelley said it was possible that the
variance application could be entirely withdrawn. Mr. Martinson
said that it would in the best interest of the Terry's and Mr.
Skifter if the gates remained in the location they were now
proposing. Johnson asKed how far from the property line the wall
would be? Mr. Martinson replied it could be approximately 20'
from the front property line and that the 10' side setback
requirement could be met. He added that there should be plenty
of room to back up and turn around. In addition they would put a
sign on the corner of Kelley and Pence.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Johnson, seconded
by Planning Commission member Hanson, to recommend approval of
this application for a height variance and front setback
variance, provided that the applicant brings a revised plan
showing the turnaround and safety access issues to the City
Council Meeting. Kelley asked about delivery boxes being put in
the gate. Mr. Martinson said that they had already considered
that in their plan. Motion, Ayes=3, Kelley and Moos Nay, Motion
HINUTBS OF THE PIAHNIHG CONNISSIOH : I TING OCTOBER 17, 1988
ZONING FILE #1347-IUCHAEL HALLEY H
passed.
•j, I S CONTINUED
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
It was moved by Kelley, seconded by Johnson, to approve the
minutes of the September 19, 1988 and October 3, 1988 Planning
Commission Meetings. Motion, Ayes=5, Nays=0, Motion passed.
ADJOURNMENT 12:05 A.M.
The Planning Commission meeting adjourned at 12:05 A.M.