HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-19-1988 Planning MinutesMIHOTBS OF THE PLAllNIliG COMNISSIOH Trim SBPTBNBER 19. 1988
ATTBHDAMCB 7s00 P.N.
The Orono Planning Commission met on the above date with the
following members present: Chairman Kelley, Johnson, Bellows,
Cohen and Hanson. The following represented the City staff;
Building & Zoning Administrator Mabusth, Assistant Planning 6
Zoning Administrator Gaffron, Planning Consultant John Shardlow
and City Recorder Scheffler. Council Representative Grabek;
attended and Councilmember Goetteii was also present.
#1326 RONALD D. LAI
200 NAYZATA BOOLBVARD
CLASS II PRBLININART SOBDIVISION
PUBLIC HBARIMG 8:15 P.M>8:19 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Nailing were
duly noted.
The applicant was not present for this matter.
Planning Commission member Johnson stated that he would like
to vote on this matter. Chairman Kelley disagreed and stated
that there would be some debate involved with this matter.
Bellows suggested hearing the public comments. Kelley disagreed
and stated that the applicant should be present. One person from
the public indicated that he would be willing to come back at any
time to participate in the discussion of this matter. Another
gentleman indicated that he would be out of town for the October
3rd Planning Commission meeting, but he could attend the October
17th meeting. Another concerned party inquired as to how many
meetings the applicant could miss. Kelley reiterated his belief
that it would not be effective to have the public comments of
record without the applicant being present.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Hanson, to table #1326 until the October 17,
1988 Planning Commission Meeting. Motion, Ayes»5, Nays>0, Motion
passed.
#1328 HOWARD B. JOHNSON
1635 6 1675 CONCORDIA STREBT
SUBDIVISION OF A LOT LINE REARRANGEMENT
CLASS I
PUBLIC HEARING 7:45 P.M. - 7:50 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
duly noted.
The applicant was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that this matter involved changing an existing lot
MimiTBS OF THE PIAIINIIIG O SSIOM IflllG SBpnaiBBR 19, 1988
•JZONING PILB il328-H0mRD JOHNSON OOHTIN1
line. The lot line rearrangement is necessary because the
neighboring property, owned by the Trainors, encroaches
apprv*>ximately 1' over the property line onto the Johnson
property. The proposal entails moving the lot line to allow a 5'
setback for the Trainor house. Gaffron asked why the Trainor
property should not not comply with the 10* setback standard?
Mr. Johnson responded that he is giving the land to the
Trainors as a result of a torrens proceeding that occurred back
in 1968. After discussion with the Trainors, there had been a
mutual agreement that Mr. Johnson would go ahead with the lot
line rearrangement. He obtained Council approval for his
proposal, but the documents showing the change in the lot line
were never recorded. Planning Commission member Johnson noted
that if such documents were not recorded they became null and
void after 6 months of being executed.
Chairman Kelley told the Planning Commission members that
they would need to make a determination between a 5' setback or a
10* setback. Planning Commission member Johnson stated that in
his opinion, the 10* setback standard should be upheld.
Planning Commission member Cohen agreed with Johnson. He added
that what happened 20 years ago cannot be of any concern at this
point. Kelley stated that the applicant was requesting approval
for 5*.
Mrs. Trainor spoke and indicated that their house was built
in 1951 and there have been no additions since that date, except
on the south side.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
^It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Johnson, to recommend denial of a 5* sideyard
setback variance as requested in application #1328. Assistant
Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron interjected that denial
of this application would disallow Mr. Johnson from revising this
matter and coming back before the Planning Commission. However,
tabling this would provide him with that opportunity. Kelley
asked Mr. Johnson if he would prefer to have the matter tabled.
Mr. Johnson responded affirmatively. Kelley withdrew his motion,
Johnson withdrew his second of the motion. It was moved by
Kelley, seconded by Johnson, to table #1328. Motion, Ayes^S,
Nays=0, Motion passed.
#1330 FULLERTON PROPERTIES, INC.
880 TONNLINE ROAD
CLASS III PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
PUBLIC HEARING 8:20 P.N.-8:43 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
noted.
MIHUTBS OF THE PIAKHIliG CONMISSIOH mcSTING SBPTBfBBR 19* 1988
II >1lOHIMG PILE #1330-POLLERTON PEOPBIKTIES COWTIW
The Mr. Joseph Franks was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that the subject property is located within the 5-acre
minimum zone. Applicant is proposing a 7 lot residential
subdivision with a private road. The lots would be served by an
interior private road. There would be no access off of Townline
Road. There would be three lots that would require a variance to
the 300' width standard. Lot 2 would have a defined width of
285' at the setback line; Lot 4 would have a defined width of
175' and Lot 5 would have a defined width of 150'. The proposed
road length is 1,000' with a 50' outlet with a 100' cul de sac.
The paved road section is proposed as urban, which would provide
curbing as opposed to shoulders. A 24' paved width is proposed,
but Orono code does not specify requirements for seven lots. The
City Engineer has suggested 28'. The point where the private
road would access Townline Road is directly across from a private
road in Independence. Lots 3 and 4 are proposed to cross
Painter's Creek. Staff recommends a single shared creek crossing
point adjacent to the cul de sac, at the shared lot line.
The applicant was now requesting 2 driveway entrances for
Lots 3 and 4. Mr. Mark Gronberg, the applicant's surveyor,
explained that the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District installed a
weir on the property. The flows coming through the property are
only 9 cfs and the culvert requirements are much less than the
size of the culverts that currently run under County Road 6. The
MCWD has no objections to the proposed 2 creek crossings.
Chairman Kelley asked if the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District
maintained that area. Gronberg replied affirmatively, and added
that the MCWD has certain rights and an easement from the County
to access that location. Kelley inquired as to the maintenance
performance of the MCWD. Gronberg stated, "it looks pretty good
in there". Gaffron showed were the Watershed District's easement
was located in respect to the proposed subdivision.
Gaffron asked the Planning Commission members to refer to a
letter from the City Engineer wherein he requested that the storm
sewer outlet be 958 rather than 961.0.
Buildability of each lot was the next concern. Gaffron
stated that each lot contains 1 1/2 - 2 acres with slopes of 6%
or less. Mound-type septic systems would be necessary on most of
the lots, due to high water table soils. Gaffron is concerned
about Lot 2 because the Soil Survey may be incorrect in its
depiction of where Hamel-type soils are located. Gaffron
requested that soil borings be completed to better determi;ie the
soil content of Lot 2.
Chairman Kelley asked Mr. Gronberg if he had any other plans
prior to this proposal? Gronberg responded, that there were, but
one of the main things they wanted to do was access directly
iilfiDTBS OP THB PIASHIHG CQMMISSIOH NBETIHG BmPTBUSm 19, 1988
ZOMI1I6 PILB «1330-FULLraTpN PROPBRTIBS CONTIHU
across from the road in Independence for traffic reasons,
otherwise they would come too close to Highway 6, which would
create a bad intersection". Kelley asked how many other plans
had been looked at? Gronberg replied 2 other ones. Zoning
Administrator Mabusth asked if that access also lined up with the
access coming from the west side? Mr. Gronberg answered
affirmatively. Gaffron stated that one of the concerns of that
road is that the City Engineer has suggested that there not be an
island at the entrance. With respect to future road extension
considerations, Gaffron said that he and the City Engineer looked
at where the neighboring properties might develop or whether they
would develop. Due to the layout of the land and the existing
wetlands, there would be no apparent need to provide a corridor
for future access to the east, south or north.
Planning Commission member Bellows stated that in light of
other applications before the Planning Commission, she would like
to see more exploration done to determine what the actual
building envelopes would be. Bellows is concerned about the
combination of topography, soil condition and lot shape.
Planning Commission member Hanson said he was especially
concerned about the location of the Hamel soils. Chairman Kelley
said that the proposed access across from the street to the west
made a lot of sense, but that he had the same c^oncerns about the
building envelopes as Bellows had. Hanson stated that basically
he liked the layout, and hopefully the soil borings would be
helpful in clearing up his concerns.
Chairman Kelley addressed the issue of frontage on Lots 2, 4
and 5. He wanted to know if the Planning Commission members
would be in favor of the width variance required to meet the
required 300' width? Planning Commission member Johnson
indicated that he would be in favor of the proposed layout.
Bellows stated that she was more concerned with how the entire
subdivision worked, rather than any one particular variance. She
added that before an intelligent decision could be made as to the
variances, the soil borings and building envelope issues would
need to be addressed.
Chairm(*>n Kelley inquired as to the proposed size of the
culverts for Painters Creek? Mr. Gronberg responded that 24" was
the proposed size. Kelley asked if the plan was to put 2 of
those in on Lot 3 and Lot 4? Gronberg answered in the
affirmative. Kelley asked how he would feel if the Planning
Commission indicated they only wanted one? Gronberg said that
decision would not cause him to abandon the entire project, but
having individual driveways would be better than shared
driveways. Kelley asked him how he would feel about a 28*
roadway as opposed to a 24' roadway? Gronberg responded that
with only 7 houses, 28' would be overkill. Johnson indicated
that he agreed with Mr. Gronberg's opinion.
INimiTBS OP THB PLMmillG COMUSSIOH !TI«6 SEPTMIBBR 19, 1988
•i>iZ0RI1I6 PILE #1330 PULLERTOH PROPERTIES-COHTIIH
Chairman Kelley stated that this matter would probably be
tabled, but the Planning Commission should provide some direction
for the applicant. Kelley said that they were looking for a
definition of the natural building envelope in each lot. Kelley
asked if primary and alternate septic systems should be indicated
for each lot? Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator
Gaffroi responded that if there is Hamel soil predominately in
the 5-acre zone, it would be helpful to have the proposed septic
systems designated. Kelley asked if Gaffron wanted to use his
discretion as to which lots required septic system >Z8signation.
Gaffron replied that yes, he would like to make that
determination. Gaffron said he would look at soil borings first
and then decide if they need to do further testing based on the
boring results. Kelley asked if the Planning Commission wanted
to give that discretion to Gaffron so there would be no confusion
as to who would handle that aspect of the application. Mr.
Franks expressed his desire to have the building envelope defined
as soon as possible so they could proceed yet this Fall. Bellows
stated that the determination for the septic system and the
building envelope define whether or not the project would be
acceptable. Mr. Franks stated that he could not determine
exactly where, on a 5-acre lot a house would be required to be
built. He felt that should be left up to the lot-owner's
discretion. Bellows asked Mr. Franks to look at the topography
of Lot 2. Mr. Franks said that the front part of the lot was
clear, but the back part was all woods. His preference would be
to build near the woods, but that may not be the wishes of the
person actually building on the lot. Bellows explained that the
concerns with Lot 2 involved the soil being designated as Hamel
for nearly the entire lot. Hamel soil is worthless and useless.
Mr. Franks stated that he was willing to accept that restriction
readily. Bellows responded that there would be no suitable
location to build a house on that Lot.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Chairman, Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Cohen, to table this application, pending the
outcome of the definition of buildability of each lot and the
taking of soil borings for Lots 2, 3, 4 and 5. Based upon the
soil borings, the City Staff v;ill determine which lots would
require percolation tests. The issues of culverts and variances
would be deferred until the buildability of the lots was
determined. Motion, Ayes-5, Nays»0, Motion passed.
#1333 SIDREY RBBBRS
715 NORTH BROWN ROAD
RBZ0NIN6
PUBLIC HEARING 8:45 P.lf.-10:00 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
noted.
im waBT amm
milUTBS OF THE PLAMNIliG COMMISSIOR MBBTIH6 19, 1988
•JZQHIW6 FILE #1333-REBERS COETIE1
Mr. John Shardlow, a Planning Consultant for the City of
Orono, presented this matter on behalf of the City of Orono. He
stated that this item had been reviewed at the previous Planning
Commission Meeting as a sketch plan. The subject property xs
part of the Highway 12 Corridor Study and is consequently to be
reviewed in relationship to that study. The plan will also be
required to meet the special minimum requirements for rezoning
along the Highway 12 Corridor.
Shardlow pointed out that there is over 50' of grade
separation on the proposed site. There is a large hill with an
elevation of approximately 1044' in the center of the site,
dropping off to the east along Brown Road and in the extreme
northwest corner of the site. The only other characteristic of
the site, other than the fact that it is wooded with mature maple
trees, is that it nas a heavy clay and clay-loam soils. These
soils can present some severe obstacles fer on-site sewage
disposal systems. Chairman Kelley asked if the soil type had
actually been verified through soil borings. Shardlow stated
that the soil type was determined by a Soil Survey.
There are special minimum requirements for zoning along the
Highway 12 Corridor. There is a requirement that the minimum
area request for rezoning be 5 acres or 10 acres. The Rebers
land area is 32.6 acres so they would meet that requirement.
Another requirement would be an access and circulation plan
to insure that it precludes direct access not only to Highway 12,
but that it also facilitates the movement of traffic through the
area. The Highway 12 Corridor Study talks about the need for a
frontage road, whether it be a standard frontage road or a remote
frontage road between Brown Road and Willow That will be
accomodated once the southern half of the area is developed. The
sanitary sewer availability is one of the key issues. The City's
Engineering Consultant has reviewed the Reber's application and
stated that this requirement could be satisfied one of two ways:
Either through Long Lake, by the joint powers agreement, or by
constructing a new interceptor along the Highway 12 Corridor.
There is a great deal of concern about the impact of this project
on Lake Minnetonka. There is a need for ponding on the southeast
corner of the property. The applicants are aware of that
requirement and have included a ponding area in the preliminary
sketches that have been done fer the southern area. The ponding
issue will be dealt with when the southern portion of the area is
addressed. The special minimum requirements also talk about
available zoning districts within the Corridor. The Rebers'
proposal is for rezoning to R-lA#through the PRD, Planned
Residential zoning category. Both of those classifications are
listed among the available zoning districts within the Corridor.
Finally, the special minimum requirements include a development
agreement, which will be entered into and signed by the
applicants.
M1MIITB8 or THE rUOmim COMaSSK TING SBPTBMBSR 19« 1988
20HIHG PILB #1333-RBBERS COMTINDBD
With regard to development analysis, Mr. Shardlow has
determined that the Rebers* proposal is consistent with the
Highway 12 Corridor Study. When this matter was reviewed as a
sketh plan, one of the key issues that was discussed to a great
degree was the length of the cul-de-sac that is proposed on the
private street within the subdivision. The proposal calls for a
road that is in excess of 2,000* in length. The City's
subdivsion regulations identify a maximum length of 1,000* for a
City street, but no maximum length has been established for
private roads. The approval of the length of the cul-de-sac does
not formally require approval of a variance. The necessity for
the cul-de-sac relates back to the topography and vegetation and
Mr. Reber's desire to retain as much trees and minimize the on
site grading as much as possible.
In summary, the application has been reviewed for a
considerable length of time throughout the entire Highway 12
Corridor Study. In his opinion, the general planning issues and
consistency with the comprehensive plan and zoning have been met.
The one issue that stands out at this point is the length of the
cul-de-sac. Mr. Shardlow pointed out what he considers to be the
three reasonable alternatives that the Planning Commission could
consider. The first would be to accept the applicant's plan as
presented. Since the cul-de-sac does not require a variance, the
Planning Commission could find that the applicant's reasons in
favor of the cul-de-sac could adequately justify the departure
from the standard subdivision requirements. The second
alternative could be requiring the street to be looped or to
connect with Pine Ridge Lane. Another alternative would be to
construct an "emergency vehicles only" access to try to offset
the length of the cul-de-sac. The least disruptive location for
such an access would be to extend Pine Ridge Lane to an area that
is already being proposed as a trail area. There would be
relatively short stretch between that and the interior road that
could provide access for an ambulance or firetruck.
Chairman Kelley inquired whether Mr. Shardlow was working
for the City of Orono and whether the City was responsible for
Mr. Shardlow's fees to attend the Planning Commission Meeting.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth answered affirmatively. Planning
Commission member Bellows asked why there was an exception to the
policy of receiving Staff's comments with the packet. Bellows
did not receive a copy of Mr. Shardlow's presentation with the
other agenda information she received. Kelley informed Mr.
Shardlow that he was having a difficult time ascertaining who Mr.
Shardlow represented.
Mr. Peter Jarvis an Associate of BRW, introduced himself as
a representative for Mr. Sid Rebers. He stated that it was Mr.
Rebers* intention to build single family homes on approximately 1
acre lots with sanitary sewer. The property is located east of
the Pine Ridge subdivision area, immediately west of Orono and
iiliims of the pianihiig o SSIOH MEBTU6 SEPTEMBER 19, 1988
• I >•ZONING FILE «1333-REBERS CONTIE
North of Wayzata. There is a heavy maple forest that is
predominant over 75% of the site. The present proposal only
encompasses the northerly 2/3 of the property, not the southern
portion which borders Wayzata itself. There are steep slopes on
the property. The high point of the land is located roughly
within the center and is approximately 1044*. The low point is
994', and is located in the northwest corner of the site. The
overall functional plans of the City, as well as the particulars
of the site, require that any drainage that occurs as a result of
the development of the Rebers* property drain to the lowest point
on the site into a retention pond.
The proposed uses for the property range from attached to
detached residential, sewered to non-*sewored uses. The present
proposal is for rezoning to a single family classification that
does allow one acre lots, along with a Planned Residential
Designation (PRD) to accomodate some design features that Mr.
Jarvis intends to incorporate. The rezoning would require
provisions that would allow for the proposed 25 lots to have
sanitary sewer. This would require the execution of an agreement
with Long Lake, or the actual implentation which has already been
feasibly studied by the City Engineer, and would eventually be
assessed to the benefiting property owners by the City of Orono.
The reason for the rezoning is so that sanitary sewers could be
used as opposed to mound systems, which would preserve more of
the natural vegetation in the area.
Chairman Kelley asked Mr. Jarvis to outline the current and
proposed zoning for the Rebers' parcel. Mr. Jarvis stated that
the current zoning is RR-IB. The proposed zoning would be R-lA
with a PR overlay, as well as a commercia 1/retai 1 use
classification that currently exists along the southerly 1/4 of
the site. Kelley stated that when this matter was previously
discussed, there was concern about having sufficient room behind
the Little Oak Store to build an east to west frontage road. Mr.
Jarvis felt that he had adequately anticipated the future needs
for Orono in that regard. Jarvis asked if the City had
determined whether there would be enough room to place a frontage
road in that area, as opposed to placing it parrallel, and
adjacent to the Rebers' parcel? Zoning Administrator Mabusth
stated that 50' would be required. The applicant is proposing to
take some area from the Wear property to meet the 50' requirement
for the road outlot. The proposal includes a shared commons
area, which would need to be reduced in size to accomodate the
requirement for the road. Kelley asked how many feet from the
store the road could be placed? Mabusth responded that there
would be at least a 50' setback. Kelley stated that the
requirement then would be 100' feet from the store. Mr. Jarvis
interjected that there is approximately 130' to the outlot line.
Kelley observed that all of the commons area would be used,
except for 30'. Mr. Jarvis stated that the road was one of the
treasons for the extra depth in the outlot. Kelley stated that
this was one of the areas the Planning Commission had asked Mr.
Jarvis to further research. Mr. Jarvis stated that it was his
understanding that the City Staff had been directed to evaluate
to see if the City concurred with the proposal. He did not think
he was asked to propose the location of a specifically dedicated
right-of-way, but rather to show that if the frontage road was to
be installed that there would be sufficient distance in the
corridor to do so. Planning Commission member Bellows asked if
the road would interfere with the proposed trail system? Jarvis
responded that the boundaries of the trail system could be moved
accordingly.
Dennis and Marni Platteter distributed a letter they had
prepared which set forth their concerns about the resoning. Mr.
Platteter stated that their property was immediately to the north
of the development. The total increased density that would
result from the subdivision involved two major concerns.
Increased traffic was a concern in that 25 new homes could
generate an additional 75 cars that would travel on North Brown
Road. There has already been a drastic increase in traffic in
that area. Mr. and Mrs. Platteter can no longer safely walk or
ride their horses on North Brown Road. Liability is another
concern that would arise from the increased density. The
Platteters live on the lake and fear little children walking
through their property to the lake. The Platteters also have a
pool and horses. Mr. Platteter stated that Mr. Rebers was kind
enough to visit their home and discuss his proposal with them.
He thought that the subdivision was aesthetically pleasing, but
did not feel it corresponded with the rural, residential
atmosphere of Orono. Property to the west, north and east is
rural, residential. Mr. Platteter stated that the rural,
residential atmosphere was the reason he and Mrs. Platteter
moved to Orono in 1977. He felt that the subdivision was not an
attribute, but rather a detriment to the area. Mrs. Platteter
stated that she would require a non-penetratable barrier in the
location where their property abuts with the commons area, should
the development be approved. Chairman Kelley read the letter
submitted by the Platteters.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth stated that the Comprehensive
Plan Amendment opened up the possibility of rezoning for certain
properties if certain standards are met. However, the property
to the w^st is now zoned rural residential, 2-acre minimum and
was not involved in the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. Planning
Commission member Bellows agreed that the door has definitely
been opened by the comprehensive plan to the possible rezoning of
this area. In light of that, a proof of hardship is not
necessary.
Planning Commission member Bellows stated that there were
some misconceptions that have been presented in this proposal.
One of those being the mound sewer vs. sanitary sewer. She and
other Planning Commission members determined that a mound system
on a 2-acre site would cause an almost equal amount of tree
removal as would be required for 2 1-acre sites with sewer.
'•mm
MimiTBS OP TBOE PLMnilHG COMMISSIOH ,i;-K VIS6 SBPTBMBSR 19, 1988
ZQHIiiG PILE tl333~RBBBRS CONTIIV ii:^ I
Bellows added that it*s not the concept of rezoning that was
offensive but the manner in which the proposal is being
presented. The Planning Commission is being told that the
proposal involves a rezoning to 1-acre with a PRD overlay.
Bellows felt that typically when a PRD is proposed it is for a
unique use of the land in order to save natural characteristics.
Bellows said that the more thought she gave to the issue of tree
preservation for the Rebers* proposal, the PRD is not performing
the function of preserving a maximum number of trees possible.
In looking at an aerial photo of the area, she would be inclined
to suggest that the housing be clustered on the east side which
would save the "the whole bloody forest". Proceeding in that
fashion would be considered more of a PRD than what Mr. Jarvis is
proposing. However, that would create high density housing.
Bellows surmized that what is actually being proposed is a fairly
standard subdivision. The net product is not a PRD, it is a
rezoning to 3/4 of an acre.
Mr, Jarvis reminded Bellows that the parcel is just over 32
acres, of which approximately 8 acres remain undisturbed in
prepetuity as part of the outlet that is separate and distinct
from and devoted to not only the trail system, but as a complete
buffer surrounding the project. There are 2 acre lots to the
west, which in each case have a one for one relationship as
opposed to the one and one-half for one relationship being
proposed. The northern properties have a one for one and five
for one, but the five for ■vii*- is along a space that is in excess
of 1,000*. There is a rrail system that is well in excess of a
mile proposed for the site, there are 8 acres of space that would
be commonly owned. Mr. Jarvis was unaware of any subdivision
that has ever been executed in Orono where there are landscaped
islands in the cul-de-sac, or a trail system such as they are
proposing implemented. He also has not seen any further
restrictions placed upon the building pad, over and above the
standards for a straight subdivision, for the purpose of
maintaining vegetation. Mr. Jarvis stated that it would be
overreationary to cluster development only on the eastern portion
of the parcel. Jarvis added that Mr. Rebers was more than willing
to build a multi-family unit, rather than a retail building. It
was their feeling that would be more appropriate in light of the
adjacent 2-acre zoning. Mr. Jarvis whole heartedly disagreed
that the Rebers* development was not a unique proposal. They
looked at the proposal from a marketing standpoint, not just a
planning process and political process standpoint.
Mr. Jarvis responded to the earlier observation regarding
tree removal for septic vs. sewer. After the soils had been
examined by the engineers, it was determined that the mounded
systems would require somewhere between a minimum of 8,000 s.f
and a maximum of 10,000 to 11,000 s.f, depending upon the
specific conditions of each site. If you considered the 8-10
thousand s.f on a 2-acre lot, plus a 3,000 s.f footprint for the
NIHUTBS OF THE PIAimillG COmaSSIOH TING SBPTBMBmi 19, 1988
<1.11SOHING PILE «1333-REBBRS CONTIN1
house, multiply that by 2, you would get a total of 6,000 s.f.
for 2 houses with no mounded system. Using the mounded system
with the same building footprint, 50% of additional vegetation
would be given up. Kelley asked Gaffron if 8,000 s.f. to 10,000
s.f for a mound system was accurate. Gaffron stated that those
figures were not unrealistic. Kelley asked Jarvis how many lots,
including the road, there could be if the 32 acres was zoned 2~
acre. Jarvis responded that they could get 16 lots. Kelley did
some calculations as to how the 2**acre mounded system would
compare to the 1-acre sewer. Kelley asked Mr. Jarvis if he had
performed those calculations. Jarvis answered in the negative.
Kelley asked the City Staff whether or not they had compared the
two possibilities? He questionned whether making that
determination would be a part of the examining process? Mr.
Jarvis stated that they had not received any direction from the
Planning Commission to present a 2-acre proposal. Mr. Jarvis
asked why the Planning Commission did not indicate that they
wanted to see that when this issue was previously presented?
Planning Commission member Johnson responded that was because a
month ago the Planning Commission was comfortable with the PRD.
Chairman Kelley asked if what the proposed lot size was,
including the open space. Mr. Kost responded 1.12 acres. Kelley
stated that he wanted to confirm that the lot size exceeded one
acre, because in a typical PRD, in that particular zoning
district, the actual size of the lot, plus open space, has to be
over the size of the zoning district.
Planning Commission member Bellows reiterated the fact that
she had no problem with the concept, it was the execution that
was a problem. She added that she did not disagree with the idea
of the property being zoned 1-acre. She did not like the way the
parcel was being divided.
Maggie Roderick, a resident at Dickey Cake Drive, expressed
her concern'^to be the emergency vehicle access proposed for Pine
Ridge Lane. She stated that Pine Ridge Lane was never intended
to be a through road. It was to remain a stub road for the
purpose of being an access onto Highway 12. Zoning Administrator
stated that the road was supposedly scheduled for a through road
through the Rebers' property, through a residential subdivision.
Mrs. Roderick said that she had discussed that possibility at the
time their property was sold and she had been told that the
chances of that Road going through were vague. Mabusth stated
that she would not have made such an affirmative representation
until the Rebers property was developed. Chairman Kelley asked
Mrs. Roderick if she had a specific concern regarding the
subdivision. Mrs. Roderick stated that the Planning Commission
had done an excellent job in upholding the rural, residential
aspect of Orono. She was sure that Mr. Rebers* development would
be beautiful, but it would add more traffic to Brown Road. If
Pine Ridge Lane were made a through street to Dickey Lake Drive,
it could potentially become an access for the public to Willow.
MimiTBS OF THE PLAHHIIIG CONHISSIOH TING SEPTEMBER 19, 1988
IJ.-OZONING PILE 81333-REBERS C0NTIN1
Mr. John Shardlow. Indicated that he was not an advocate for
the Rebers* proposal. His purpose for attending the meeting was
to review the proposal as a Consultant for the City of Orono.
This process started with the assumption that the City would look
at whether or not the comprehensive plan should be amended first.
After the comprehensive plan was in place, it would act on
specific requests for rezoning, based upon the conditions and
standards established. The Rebers' proposal is consistent with
the comprehensive plan. Mr. Shard low said that statement is not
an opinion on his part, it is a fact. He was aware of the fact
that there were members of the Planning Commission that disagreed
with the comprehensive plan. Therefore, if there is opposition
to Mr. Rebers* proposed subdivision, it is actually opposition to
the comprehensive plan. The "plan” was in place first and Mr.
Rebers* developers tailored their proposal to the comprehensive
plan.
Mr. John Rick, a resident at 730 Dickey Lake Drive, stated
that his concern was similar to Mrs. Roderick's in that if the
the subdivision were to create a thoroughfare of Dickey Lake
Drive, Pine Ridge and the proposed cul-de-sac, there would be a
significant public safety issue to be addressed.
Mr. Gerald Pettis, another resident of Dickey Lake Drive,
stated that he was suspicious of what could potentially happen
should Pine Ridge Lane be opened for a firelane. He was
concerned about the City going through Dickey Lake Drive for the
purpose of installing sewer lines. Mr. Pettis said that he did
not have the property to give for the purposes of a sewer line.
Chairman Kelley said that was a good point in that was the next
logical step should the sewer be expanded to the west. Mr.
Pettis also wanted to know if there were proposed covenants for
the development. Kelley answered that a letter had been sent
setting forth those covenants. Mr. Pettis asked if they were
anything like the covenants for Morningside? If so, he would be
very concerned about his property if homes of that calibur were
to be put in his area.
Mr. Robbin Sentell, residing at 736 Dickey Lake Drive,
agreed with concerns raised by his neighbors. His main concern
was whether any form of traffic regulation had been proposed for
Brown Road and Highway 12, should the Rebers* development be
approved. Mr. Shardlow responded to Mr. Sentell*s question by
stating that one of the mainstays of the xighway 12 Corridor
Study is to preclude any direct access from the frontage of Mr.
Rebers* property that is currently zoned commercial. There would
be an opportunity for local traffic to get across that location
without having to go onto Highway 12. The present plan requires
the installation of a frontage road before the southern portion
of the Rebers* property is developed. Mr. Sentell asked for
further Information regarding specific proposed traffic
regulations for Brown Road and Highway 12. Mr. Shardlow replied
NIHUTBS OF THE PLMRIIIIG COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMBER 19. 1988
ZONING PILE #1333-REBERS CONTIN1
that there is a plan for a signal light at Highway 12 and Brown
Road. However, he did not know the exact schedule for installing
the light. Chairman Kelley asked if anyone knew the schedule for
the light. Zoning Administrator Mabusth stated that there had
been some recent input from the State Highway Department.
Supposedly a left-turn lane was going to be installed by the
traffic light at Highway 12 and North Brown Road all the way up
to Old Crystal Bay Road. Mabusth had nothing definite on a
traffic light at Brown Road, however there had been discussion
about a traffic light on Willow. Mabusth added that the
subdivision did not Include pl2uis for a connection to Pine Ridge
Lane. The only concern is the length of the cul-de-sac and that
Pine Ridge Lane could be opened up with very controlled access
only in a case of an emergency. Planning Commission member
Johnson interjected that access of that road had always been
intended. Mabusth stated that throughout the entire planning
process for that area, the idea of having Pine Ridge as a through
road linking the residential areas had been abandoned in favor of
a road through the commercial area.
Chairman Kelley asked Mr. Jarvis to address the issue of the
Highway 12 and Brown Road traffic regulation. Mr. Jarvis stated
that he knew nothing more than the City Staff. When they started
master planning on the property some 13 months ago, he asked the
Minnesota Department of Transportation for their perspective of
that area. MN DOT responded that nothing was presently planned
and there was not enough traffic on Brown Road to warrant a
traffic signal in that area.
Chairman Kelley asked whether any consideration had been
given as to who would be responsible for snow removal on the
emergency vehicle access? Mr. Shardlow did not address that
particular question, but answered that there were creative ways
to design the access without it being a blacktopped through road.
Planning Commission member Cohen expressed his opinion about
approving the project without the cul-de-sac going all the way
around and connecting all the way through. He added that so far
there had not been a single explanation or alternative offered
that meets any standard of public safety. If Pine Ridge was
chosen, they would then have to contend with the expressed
concerns of the residents in that area. Planning Commission
member Hanson said that he was absent from the previous Planning
Commission Meeting, and asked Mr. Jarvis why the cul-de-sac was
not corrected. Hanson surmized that it would be easier to market
a home on the end of a cul-de-sac.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed. ^
It was moved by Planning Commission member Johnson, seconded
by Planning Commission member Bellows, to recommend approval of
rezoning the property to R-lA from an existing zoning
NIVDTBS OF THE PLMmiHG COIMISSICMi VI«6 SBPTBIBBR 19, 1988
Z0HIM6 PILE «1333-REBBRS COHTIN1
classification of RR-IB. Motion, Ayes»3# Nays, Cohen and Kelley,
Motion passed. Kelley stated that he agreed with the neighbors
to the north. He believed this project was a total infringement
upon the 2-acre residential zoning within the City of Orono. He
is afraid that a precedent would be set.
#1334 SIDNEY BEBBRS
715 EORTB BEOffE ROAD
CQRDITIORAL USE PERMIT-PRD
CLASS III FSBLIMIHART SUBDIVISIOE
PUBLIC HEARING 10:00 P.M. - 10:45 P.N.
The Affidavit of Publicatior and Certificate of Nailing were
duly noted.
Mr. Peter Jarvis continued to present this matter on behalf
of Mr. Sid Rebers. Mr. Jarvis began by addressing the issue of
connecting the cul-de-sac. He stated that connecting the street
would not be a project-killer. There are several solutions to
this concern, however, connecting the road in his mind is the
least efficient solution for several reasons. One reason is
because of the requirement to remove more mature maple trees.
Secondly, there is a slope condition in excess of 500*. Third,
a 25 lot subdivision would not produce enough emergency
situations to warrant an emergency vehicle access road. Mr.
Jarvis elaborated on a development he was doing in a suburb of
Detroit that had many more houses on a cul-de-sac with no
secondary access road. He also felt that a cul-de-sac provided
more security in that potential burglars would know there was
only one way in and one way out. Mr. Jarvis hoped to elicit a
positive response from the Planning Commission because the City's
ordinances do not impose a 1,000 standard on private streets.
City Staff had requested that the street be plotted as a 50*
outlot. He would have not problem doing so.
Planning Commission member Bellows stated that she took
p- .de in the fact that Orono did take public safety into
consideration. All it would take was one incident to justify
having the road available. Bellows inquired was to why the
proposed main access is being placed in a location that even Mr.
Jarvis did not feel was a safe location, due to poor visibility?
Mr. Jarvis stated that they purposely did not place the road
further to the north because it would affect a larger number of
properties on the east side of the roadway, as a result of
traffic driving along Brown Road for a greater distance. Mr.
Jarvis showed where the optimum location of the intersection
would be. Planning Commission member Hanson estimated that there
would be 50% or greater of the people in the development that
would not travel south to Highway 12, but rather travel north to
Highway 6. Jarvis stated if 12 vented north and 12 vented south,
from a numbers standpoint, the access location would not be an
issue. They did not locate the road farther to the south because
they did not want to interfere with any accesses for the
laMUTBS OF THE PLMmillG O SSIC»Tm6 SEPTEMBER 19, 1988
Z0RIE6 PILE #1334-RBBBRS COHTIEUBD
commercial area. They worked with the City Engineer and slid the
intersection 50* to the south to provide for better sight
distance. Bellows inquired whether the proposal had always
called for an island at the opening of the road. Mabusth stated
that she had not received a copy of the Engineer's report. Mr.
Kost indicated that the City Engineer was aware of the existence
of the island in that location. Bellows stated that she would
prefer to see the access moved to the north, to the top of the
hill. She would still like to see the road looped. Mr. Jarvis
stated that they had looked at other possibilities, but all with
a cul-de*>sac theme. Bellows state that the Planning Commission
had provided some clear direction to Mr. Jarvis that they wanted
to see alternatives to the cul-de-sac. Mr. Jarvis stated that in
his mind the cul-de-sac was the better approach. Bellows stated
that the directives and requests of the Planning Commission had
been totally ignored.
Mr. Jarvis asked for an explanation as to what other matters
the Planning Commission had given direction at the last meeting.
Planning Commission member Johnson stated that the expressed
alternatives were either the looped street or a connection to the
west. The connection to the west was not favorabl looked upon by
the Planning Commission as a whole. That left only the
alternative of the looped street. Bellows stated that the other
concern was the tree removal caused by installations of swimming
pools and tennis courts. Bellows stated that including those
items in the mound system calculations, it would "blow them out
of the water". Jarvis interjected that the square foot
calculations for the mound systems did not include the possible
requirement of a secondary system should the first one fail.
Bellows stated that she had requested specific guidelines that
would address tree removal.
Planning Commission member Johnson Indicated that he thought
the proposal worked well and that it was in line with the
comprehensive plan. His concern is that the PRD is a trade-off
for the 2-acre zoning. In other words the trail system was being
used to support the basis for the one-acre lots. He did not like
the fact that the trail system would be available only to the
immediate property owners. Mr. Jarvis stated that any of the
neighbors in the area of this development would use the trail
system if they so chose. His concern is making it part of an
overall trail system. The comprehensive plan includes a major
trail corridor and there will be an easement along the Rebers*
property to fit in with that plan.
Planning Commission member Hanson expressed a favorable
opinion toward the overall proposal. However, he did have strong
reservations about the location of the access, he would like it
on top of the hill. Security may be a problem since the trail
system will abutt the backyards of the houses. One acre lot size
was not a concern. Hanson would prefer a looped street, but felt
MUfOTBS OP THE PLAIIMIIIG COIMISSIOH TIMG SEPTEMBER 19, 1988
S0MIR6 PILE «1334~REBERS COMTINl
Mr. Jarvis's arguments were persuasive in favor of a cul-de-*sac.
Mr. Jarvis stated that if the Planning Commission wanted the
access located on the top of the hill, he would comply. Moving
the access to the top of the hill would shorten the length of the
cul-de-sac approximately 400*.
Planning Commission member Cohen stated that he was not
favorably impressed with the proposal. He did not like the one
acre aspect. He believed that the trees will be removed for the
installation of pools, tennis courts, driveways, etc. He also
believed that saving one life would justify either looping the
street or having an emergency vehicle road installed.
Mr. Platteter suggested moving the subdivision south for the
purpose of accessability from Willow where there will be traffic
control. If the east/west road were installed behind Little Oak
Store development, that road could be used to access the Rebers*
subdivision. Mr. Shardlow stated that that plan had been
considered. However, that alternative was discarded because the
area had always been zoned for commercial use. It was their
intention to keep the commercial traffic and residential traffic
separate.
Chairman Kelley stated that the same argument should be made
when dealing with Willow and Old Crystal Bay Roads where
commercial property abuts residential property. With respect to
the PRD, the through road is not a requirement. However this
application, in his mind, does not meet the requirements of a
PRD. A PRD is designated by the uniqueness in topography
requiring special attention to benefit the entire parcel. He
agreed with Planning Commission member Bellow's observations in
that the PRD is being used to create the trail system. Kelley
asked if specific conditions could be placed on the PRD? More
Information and specifications would need to be considered before
the PRD could be approved. If the PRD were approved, the
applicant would come back to the Planning Commission with a set
of conditions. As Mr. Shardlow noted earlier in the meeting,
Mabusth reminded Kelley that they were now functioning under the
new PRD, so it would come back before them automatically. Mr.
Shardlow stated that there was a timing issue involved with this.
The reason why this matter was being considered under the current
PRD conditional use process, as opposed to the new planned
development zoning district, is because it is not on the books
yet. The PRD regulations for Orono only allows for flexibility
in lot sizes and provides for the private open space that is the
outlets.
Planning Commission member Bellows asked Mr. Shardlow if the
City and Planning Commission would have as much control under the
current regulations as they will under those being proposed? Mr.
Shardlow explained that there is a conditional use permit
•m
imniTBS OF TBB PLMmiHG comssictt j H:mtm ssmiOm it, itis
Z0HIV6 PILE «1334-BEBERS COETIMUBD
opportunity available through the current PRD. This would allow
reasonable conditions to be attached to the approval. There is a
rezoning issue with the PUD. This would mean that the applicants
would not come back before the Planning Commission with the new
PUD classification. The property has been rezoned R-lA, and the
subdivision will be approved through the PRD/Conditional Use
Permit. This matter would not come back for a final development
plan approval of the PUD, because the applicant did not apply for
that. Zoning Administrator Mabusth advised the Planning
Commission to table this matter uaL5 "• chey can develop further
conditions, because this would be the last review of the
preliminary subdivision and conditional use permit. Bellows
requested an opportunity to meet with the City staff that is more
familiar with the conditional use permit process so that proper
definitions can be made.
Nr. Jarvis asked Chairman Kelley if they could proceed to
the City Council with the rezoning portion of the proposal.
Jarvis also stated that he would like notice of the conditions in
advance of the City Council meeting so they can be prepared.
Kelley suggested giving some conception of the Planning
Commission's opinion of the PRD. Planning Commission member
Johnson stated that he would be in favor of the PRD, providing
the aspect of a private trail system versus a public trail system
was addressed. He would like to see the land given back to the
Community since the trail system is a trade-off for the lack of
2-acre lot sizes. Chairman Kelley doubted there would be much
that could be done in that capacity since the land was private
land. Bellows asked about the aspect of park dedication?
Bellows also stated that she would not be in favor of the PRD as
it stands. She would only approve it if there was an alternative
to the cul-de-sac and she did not feel that this was a PRD.
Kelley was not fully opposed to the idea of the PRD or the cul-
de-sac. The issue of the island will need to be addressed.
Planning Commission member Hanson indicated that he was at a
60%/40% status in favor of the plan.
It was determined that the conditions and directions from
the Planning Commission would be discussed during the October 3rd
Planning Commission Meeting. It was suggested that the
applicants have a representative present at that meeting.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed. f
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by , to table
#1334, until the October 17, 1988 Planning Commission Meeting.
Motion, Ayes»5, Nays«0, Motion passed.
mmiTBS OP mi pLMmiiiG connissioh ITIliG SBPTBMBER 19, 1998
#1301 FREDERICK C. WHITE
180 WORTH SWORE DRIVE WEST
PRELIMIHART SOBDIVISIOW-SECOWD REV 191
COHTIWDATIOH OF PUBLIC HEARIW6
The applicant was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron reminded
the Planning Commission that this matter had been discussed at
the August 15, 1988 Planning Commission Meeting. At that time
the proposal Involved a configuration for 2 lots and an out lot.
The Planning Commission had requested a topographical map to aid
in the division of the property. The applicant has now revised
the lot lines to create only a single lot, dividing the existing
house from the whole parcel. Staff has reviewed access
possibilities with Hennepin County. Originally it was surmised
that an access site could be at the very south of the applicant's
property. It has since been determined that the best access
location would be off of Bayside Road at the northeast corner of
the property.
The Planning Commission also had requested information
concerning future plans for development of the neighboring
properties. Gaffron depicted on a sketch where the possible road
placements could occur to access these potential new
developments. However, Hennepin County has indicated that 2 of
those possibilities would be undesireable due to accessing near
high-traffic areas. It is likely that accesses would not be
determined until such time that the properties are individually
subdivided and the City required a dedicated interior road.
One of the concerns of this matter is whether the large lot
becomes an out lot with development stipulations or merely becomes
Lot 2. An outlot with stipulations could disallow any
construction until the lot became subdivided. This would allow
the City to consider whether a proposed development fit the
scheme for future subdivisions. If this other lot was considered
Lot 2, presumably development could occur in any location within
that lot.
Chairman Kelley inquired as to how many acres consisted in
Lot 1 and the undesignated Lot. Gaffron responded that Lot 1 was
2 acres of dry and approximately 1.5 acres of wet. Lot 2, or the
Outlot, has approximately 10 acres of dry. Planning Commission
member Johnson asked whether Orono would grant a building permit
on an outlot. Gaffron stated that if the lot were designated as
an outlot, the City would request conditions be established for
development. Planning Commission member Bellows asked what the
purpose was for accomplishing the subdivision at this point.
Gaffron explained that the applicant had a contract to sell his
house with a parcel of property that meets the City's standards
for a 2 acre lot.
Kelley stated that he would be in favor of this proposal if
NIVOTBS OF THB PLAmililG C v:i:i SSIC» HBBTISG SEPTBTOR 19« 1988
•I -*ZOHIliG FILED #1301-MHITB COETIE
the City could regulate development of the outlot. Planning
Commission member Cohen expressed his preference for "Option A"
of staff's recommendations as opposed to "Option B". Kelley
asked Mr. White what his preference would be. Mr. White
indicated that he had no objection to the terms set forth in
•Option A", making the large lot an outlot.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohenr to
recommend approval of this application# per staff's
recommendations and conditions of approval which included the
terms of "Option A" rather than "Option B". Upon further review
of staff's recommendations and conditions# Cohen questioned
paragraph 2 concerning a 17' right-of-way for County Road 19.
Cohen withdrew his motion until this was clarified. Gaffron
explained this would allow a consistency with the City's 100'
right-of-way corridor for the McCully Road connection between
County Roads 19 and 6. Bellows asked how the right-of-way would
affect the applicant's dry buildable. Gaffron stated that it
might have an effect. Kelley asked about setbacks and septic
tanks. Gaffron stated that the 17' right-of-way would still
allow for the required 50' setback for the existing house. There
should be no interference with the septic tanks located on the
property. Kelley asked if the northerly lot line could be moved
enough to offset the 17' right-of-way should it create a deficit
in the required dry buildable? Gaffron answered affirmatively.
Gaffron clarified for Mr. White what the City would need to
do in light of the 17' right-of-way. Applicant questioned how
that would affect the 150’ corridor and the possibility of
turning that into a lot in the future. It was his understanding
that 150' was the maximum. Gaffron replied that there was
actually a 200' standard for the District# and noted that the
width of that corridor necessarily decreases as the 2 acre
requirements for Lot 1 is satisfied. There would be no other
alternatives if applicant wished to obtain the 2-acre dry
buildable requirement where the house is now located. Bellows
added that the wetland does not extend to the property line so
there would be no way to make it contiguous going the other way.
Cohen asked why the City was considering the County's request for
the 17'. Gaffron stated that normally the City denies any right-
of-way requests for County roads that are not heavily travelled.
Due to the fact that the City has a 100' corridor to the north#
and because the road is a major connecting point for Highway 12
and Mound# the City Staff felt it would be appropriate to grant
the right-of-way.
It was moved by Cohen# seconded by Bellows# to recommend
approval of application #1301# per staff recommendations and
conditions. The Planning Commission recommended "Option A"
because it would be a planning mode since future development in
that area has not yet been determined. Paragraph 6 would be
omitted entirely at this time. This approval would also be based
nssp
.M l»ITBS OF THB PLMmiHG OOMNISSIOM !TIH6 SEPTEMBER 19, 1988
ZOHIRG FILE 81301HIBITE COETIMI
upon the stipulation that applicant's lot line be moved as
necessary to meet the 2-acre dry buildable requirement should the
17* right-of-way create a deficit. Motion, Ayes«5, Nays*0,
motion passed.
#1310 HOMARD F. EISIMGER
3245 NATXATA BOOLEVARD
REEBIIAL COPDITIGHAL OSE P1SRM1T
SBCOED REVIEM
Chairman Kelley stated that the applicant requested tabling
this matter because personnel from Park Construction were unable
to attend. Zoning Administrator Mabusth confirmed that and added
that all concerned parties would attend the October 3, 1988
Planning Commission Meeting.
#1318 SOAD H. AZAHARI
1745 FOX STRSST
VARIAWIBS
OOETIEUATIOM OF PUBLIC HEARIEG
Applicant was present for this matter.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth explained that this matter
involved a height variance for a wall/fence. The highest portion
of the wall is 8-1/2 feet where 3-1/2 feet is the maximum
allowed. The wall creates no sight distance problems. Chairman
Kelley questioned if the gate was for security purposes.
Applicant answered affirmatively. Kelley wanted to know why
there was a rail fence along the lot line to the east. Mabusth
interjected that it was for the purpose of keeping unwanted
traffic off of the applicant's property. Kelley asked why a 3-
1/2' fence would not be sufficient to keep traffic out? The
applicant stated that a 3-1/2* fence would not work as well, and
the fence was already nearly completed.
Planning Commission member Bellows stated that she had no
objection to such a proposal when it did not interfere with
vision of the road. The gates were suitable for the property.
Bellows knew of a similar situation wherein the 3-1/2* fence did
nothing to curtail traffic. A 8-1/2' fence seemed more
intimidating.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Hanson, seconded
by Planning Commission member Bellows, to recommend approval of
#1318. Motion, Ayes«5, Nays*0, Motion passed.
#1319 RARER FULLER
4055 ELM STREET
RENEWAL VARIANCE
CORTIRUATIOR OF PUBLIC HEARING
The applicant was not present for this matter.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
MIMOTBS OP THE PIAmillG COIOaSSIOB !TIB6 SBPTBMBBR 19» 1988
• l> •ZCmiWG FILE tl319-FDLLBR COHTI1I1
Commission member Hanson, to table #1319.
Nays^O, Motion passed.
Motion, Ayes»5,
§1321 TOM HAISLBT
950 OLD CRTSTEL BAT ROAD NORTH
CLASS III PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
SECOND RBVIBN
The applicant, Tom Haislet was present, as was Lucy Taylor
from the School Board, Bill Fenholdt from School Administration,
and Tony Leung, the Attorney for the School District. Hr. Leung
presented this matter on behalf of the School District.
Mr. Leung explained that the School District was acquiring
the parcel as proposed because of the lack of capital funds
available to purchase the entire parcel at once. In addition,
the sellers wanted to sell the land in installments to avoid an
unnecessary tax burden. Further, the City of Orono prohibits the
School District from entering into an installment contract. It
was determined that the best procedure for purchasing the parcel
would be a lease with an option to purchase.
Mr. Leung reiterated the concerns expressed by the Planning
Commission as to the School District failing to purchase all of
the lots. The School District is in favor of placing an easement
in favor of the City of Orono for the purpose of a road on the
property. Mr. Leung's concern about the easement is that once
the School District has purchased the entire parcel, they would
need to come back before the City to obtain a vacation of the
easment. He suggested filing the perpetual easement contingent
upon the filing of the deed of conveyance for the parcel. Once
that deed of conveyance was filed, it would automatically trigger
a vacation of the easement.
Chairman Kelley asked how difficult it would be for the
School District to come back before the City for its vacation.
Planning Commission member Bellows Interjected that it was her
impression that the School District's presentation was strictly
for the purpose of obtaining direction to proceed as the City
requested. Zoning Administrator Mabusth stated that since the
time that was determined, the School District had become
concerned about the road easement in the future. Mabusth stated
that depending on development pressures to the east of the
property, the City could envision that road platted to the east
lot line. Ms. Taylor stated that she had not been warned about
the possibility of any development to the east disallowing the
School District to vacate the road. That would hamper the School
District's purchase of the parcel as a whole and would also
jeopardize the City of Orono's public safety standards. She had
not seen any instances where school districts have public roads
running through the school property. Kelley asked about the
possibility of the road being developed to the west. Cohen asked
whether a developer would take into account the fact that the
faWrBS OF THB FUamiHG COMNISSIOH rtino SBPTBMBBR 19, 1988
• IZOSIIIG PILE #1321-HAISLBT COHTI1I1
City would agree to vacate the road.
Planning Commission member Bellows observed that actually
the developers to the east were being put on notice that the road
may not be a through road. She told Ms. Taylor that it was their
intent to do well by the School Districtr as well as the City
overall. When development to the east begins, the City would
take into consideration its agreement with the School District.
Bellows suggested that a road proceeding east would best protect
the School District. Planning Commission member Cohen asked why
the City does not just reserve the right to the road, subject to
the understanding that it remain reserved until such time as the
School District satisfies the agreement to purchase the property.
Zoning Administrator Mabusth reminded the Planning Commission
that the right-of-way requirements is similar to that taken by
the City in the Woodhaven, Peterson Addition and Second Addition
plats. Ms. Taylor told Kelley that having a perpetual easement
for a road on the property would make the property unusable to
the School District. She would prefer to see the easement run
for 11 years, after which a vacation would be granted should the
Schrol District purchase the entire parcel. Attorney Leung
reiterated his desiis to have an automatic vacation of the
easement when the conveyance deed is filed. Cohen stated that
the School Board was dealing with the City, they would have to
come back to the City to vacate the road.
Ms. Taylor asked if the proposed agreement would include the
provision that the road would remain undeveloped? The Planning
Commission members all concurred that the road would not be
developed. Cohen stated that the City would reserve the right to
develop the road one day after the 11 year deadline. Kelley
asked whose responsibility it would be to install the road should
the School District decide to develop it? It was determined that
those concerns would be spelled out in the Developer's Agreement.
Chairman Kelley was concerned about the safety aspect of the
road at the time students make use of the property. Ms. Taylor
said that the road would be near the High School, not the
Elementary School. Kelley suggested a tunnel under Old Crystal
Bay Road. Ms. Taylor thought that to be an excellent idea.
Planning Commission member Johnson observed that any other use of
the property would be a conditional use permit and the City would
have an opportunity to review the use.
Ms. Jo Haislet asked if there would be a way to rejoin the
four lots to make one parcel? Bellows stated that the City would
probably require the parcel be shown as one large parcel.
Mabusth noted that this would involve a simple clerical procedure
for lot combination once the vacation of all public interest is
realized.
Attorney Leung, asked that the Planning Commission approve
NIMDTBS OP THB PLMmiMG CONMISSIOH !TIli6 SBPTBOSt 19, 1988
S0HIM6 PILB #1321-HA1SLBT COMTIMI
the application^ provided that Outlet A be an easment, either
privately or publicly dedicated so that when the School District
filed the deeds of conveyance it would automatically trigger the
vacation of the easment. He added that the School District would
have no problem adhering to the conditions for developing the
road as set forth in the Developer's Agreement. He would like
the Developer's Agreement to also expire upon the filing of the
deeds.
Robert Floyd, an interested party, inquired about liability
for the easement should an accident occur in that area? Attorney
Leung stated that it would depend upon whether the City dedicated
the easement to be private or public. Cohen stated that the
Developer's Agreement would indicate that the School District
indemnify the City.
Chairman Kelley a.iked what would happen to the road should
the School District not purchase all four lots in 11 years?
Mabusth stated that would need to be addressed in the Developer's
Agreement.
* It was moved by Planning Commission member Johnson, seconded
by Planning Commission member Cohen, to recommend approval of
#1321, subject to the preparation of a Developer's Agreement by
the City Attorney and the School District's Attorney with City
Staff incut. Zoning Administrator Mabusth added that the
agreement should be drafted in time for the October 10, 1988 City
Council Meeting. Kelley clarified that the motion involved four
lots with the outlet being an easement for a period of 11 years.
The Developer's Agreement would address the specifics of
indemnification and development. Attorney Leung added that the
road would be vacated upon the showing of a deed so that it would
be an automatic process. Chairman Kelley responded "absolutely".
Motion, Ayes^S, Nays*0, Motion passed.
#1323 JOH PAPAS
3369 CRYSTAL BAY ROAD
AFTER-THE-FACT VARIANCE
J80BLIC HEARING 7z25 P.M. - 7s35 P.N.
* The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
noted.
Applicant could not be present for this matter. Mr. Jay
Reiser, a neighbor of the applicant's was present and distributed
a letter written by Mr. Papas to the Planning Commission.
Chairman Kelley read the letter for the benefit of the Public
record.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that the applicant was seeking an after-the-fact
building permit and is in need of a number of variances to
complete the construction of a deck. The entire deck is within
mmTEB OF THE PIAIIHING COMNlSSlOil : 1:TIHO SFPTBIIBER 19, 1988
ZOHIIIG PILE «1323-PAPAS COHTINUBD
the 0-75* lakeshore setback area. An average lakeshore setback
variance is also required. There is a garage on the east side of
the property with a deck above it and the property to the west
has a second story deck. Nr. Papas's deck will extend 10* beyond
the average setback line. The existing house is located in the
0-75* setback zone. Without the deck and excluding the paved
road, hardcover is approximately 20%; with the deck it increases
approximately 200 s.f. and would increase hardcover to 27.4%.
The hardcover existing within the 75-250* zone is 39.6% and will
not change. All existing hardcover is legitimate (house, garage,
driveway) and there are no reasonable feasible removals.
Planning Commission member Cohen expressed the need for a
survey. He was sympathetic to the fact that the survey would
cost nearly as much as the project, but felt a precedent would be
set should an exception to this requirement be made. Cohen
suggested tabling this matter to allow the applicant time to
submit a survey and avoid having to resubmit the $150.00 fee.
Planning Commission member Hanson explained tc Mr. Keiser that at
this time, the Planning Commission was not denying Mr. Papas's
application, they were merely requesting compliance with the
required application documents. Nr. Keiser stated that at the
present time, the deck was an eyesore and had remained half
finished all summer.
Planning Commission member Johnson questioned the pictures
Mr. Keiser submitted. Mr. Keiser explained that the pictures
showed neighboring properties with decks extending more toward
the lake than Mr. Papas's deck.
Planning Commission member Bellows reiterated Hanson's
explanation of documents required with the submittal of a
variance application. Mr. Keiser asked if Mr. Papas would then
have to spend $600.00 to have a survey done? Bellows replied
that it would not be necessary to do another survey if there was
an existing survey. Kelley stated that the certified property
owners list was also not included with the application.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron stated that
the list must have been misplaced by the owner. City personnel
could verify that envelopes and labels with neighboring property
addresses had been received with the application. Gaffron
verified that the notices were legally sent, but the list
indicating those persons was missing.
Johnson stated that he could understand the confusion on
applicant's behalf regarding the variances. However, had Mr.
Papas applied for a permit to build the deck he would have been
informed of all the requirements.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
MIHUTBS OF THE PIAmiEG COMHISSIOH , K4 ^TIEG SSPTBNBBR 19, 1988
Z0HI1IG PILE fl323~PAPAS COHTIIIUBD
It was moved by Planning Commission member Cohen, seconded
by Planning Commission member Hanson, to table application #1323
to allow the applicant time to submit all required information.
Motion, Ayes*5, Nays=0, Motion passed.
#1324 MR. AMD MRS. WILLIAM GREGORY
1099 TAMARACK DRIVE
COMDITIOHAL OSE PERMIT
PUBLIC HEARIIIG 7:35 P.M. - 7:40 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
noted.
The applicants were not present for this matter, but were
represented by Mr. Clifford Keep from Minnetonka Portable
Dredging.
Assistant Planning 6 Zoning Administrator Gaffron explained
that the applicants were seeking a conditional use permit for
excavation within an existing wetland area to create a pond. The
designated wetland is approximately .6 of an acre. Excavation
would occur at the northwesterly end of the wetland and will
create a pond approximately 120* in length and about 60* in
width. The spoils would be placed along the east and south side
of the existing driveway. The City Engineer has reviewed this
application and recommended approval. The Minnehaha Creek
Watershed District has also recommended approval of this project
subject to erosion control and restoration of the disturbed
areas.
Chairman Kelley stated that at one time there was concern
about soil removal from the property. He inquired whether there
was still concern in that regard. Gaffron replied that at this
time the cuts and the fills were equal. Mr. Keep confirmed this.
Planning Commission member Johnson inquired as to water existing
around the 84 contour. Gaffron responded that it was presently
wetland and the proposal is to make one end of the pond deeper
and leave the other end at its present elevation.
Mr. Reep explained that the wetland area is approximately
15" deep, which in not sufficient for wildlife habitation.
Presently there are no cattails, only weeds. The purpose of this
project is to add approximately 2* to the depth of the pond to
maintain a level of water in that area. There should not be any
change in the storage capacity.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
It was moved by Planning Commission member Johnson, seconded
by Planning Commission member Hanson, to recommend approval of
application #1324, for a conditional use permit for excavation in
a wetland area, per staff recommendations. Motion, Ayes«5,
'4r.
lUHOTBS OF THE PIAMIIING COMMISSION : IH:TING smmmm 19* 1988
XOHING PILB «1324-GRBGORY CONTIN1
Nays»0, Motion passed.
u>»
#1325 lAKBVIBN GOLF OF OROHO, INC.
405 NORTH ARM DRIVE
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
PUBLIC HEARING 7:40 P.M. - 7:42 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
noted•
The applicant was present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron apprised
the Planning Commission of the applicant's intent to excavate 3
small ponds and create a new tee box within the golf course
property. These proposed projects are all to take place within
an area adjacent to County Road 19, at the west side of the golf
course. The ponds would enhance not only the aesthetic quality
of the course, but also the challenge of the game itself. They
should also aid in eliminating on-going maintenance problems in
wet areas. The tee box is being relocated because of complaints
from neighboring properties. The new location will place the tee
box approximately 100' further away from the neighboring
property. There will be some fill removed and th& spoils will be
deposited in a location where there will be no adverse effect on
drainage. The City Engineer and the Minnehaha Creek Watershed
District has reviewed and approved the proposal.
There were no comments from the public regarding this matter
and the public hearing was closed.
Mr. Wenkstern explained that he was hoping to eliminate some
water problems by installing the ponds and relocating the tee box
should redirect the golf balls away from the road and passing
cars.
It was moved by Chairman Kelley, seconded by Planning
Commission member Cohen, to recommend approval of application
#1325 for a conditional use permit for excavating pond areas and
a tee box. Planning Commission member Bellows inquired as to
whether it would be beneficial to relocate the green to avoid
road traffic. Planning Commission member Cohen interjected that
the present location of the green should not be a problem once
the tee box is relocated. Kelley added that it would be very
costly to relocate a green. Motion, Ayes»5, Nays«0, Motion
passed.
#1329 THOMAS MCNELLIS '
355 WOODHILL ROAD
VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING 7:52 P.M. -8:12 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were
noted.
MIMOTBS OF THB PIAIINIIIG SSIOH TIH6 SBPTBHBBR 19, 198t
ZONING FILB il329>MCNBLLIS CONTINI
The applicants were present for this matter.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Gaffron
explained that applicants were seeking variances to a front yard
setaback and 26* wetland setback. The lot was originally created
from the Woodhill Ridge subdivision and accesses through Woodhill
Road. Originally the lot was platted with full knowledge of the
existing wetland and drainage easement. There is a 50' front
setback and 30* side setback and a 26* wetland setback. The
applicants may not have been aware of the 26* wetland setback.
Kelley inquired as to when the subdivision was completed.
Gaffron replied 19G6/1987. Gaffron showed the Planning
Commission a topographical view of the area and stated that the
property contains a steep slope going down to the wetland area.
The space left for the building envelope is approximately 65* in
depth and 209'-250* in length. The proposed setbacks for the
house would be 37* and 28' where 50' is required. The deck,
retaining wall and a corner of the house would all encroach i/ito
the wetland area. The applicants are also proposing to place
fill east of and at both ends of the retaining wall, which is
within the boundaries of the Drainage and Conservation and
Flowage Easements.
Staff's initial reaction to this was that a linear concept
house would be more appropriate for this particular lot. The
applicants are proposing an ”L" shaped house. Gaffron questioned
whether there was a hardship that would justify granting all of
the setback variances.
Planning Commission member Johnson inquired as to the length
and width of the house, from front to back, top to bottom.
Gaffron responded that the proposed length south to north is
about 120' with the east-west dimension at the garage area about
90'.
Mr. McNellis stated that the variances would 'Iffer
depending upon the location of the front of the lot. In «ooking
at adjacent property, what has been determined as the front of
the lot is different from the McNellis property. The proposed
McNellis house would face the private road that accesses the old
Pillsbury house. There is an adjacent lot which was plotted so
that the back of the lot is on the road, which is also where the I
utility lines connect to that property. The McNellis lot is an
unusual piece of land; it is 3 1/4 acres, but only 11% is
suitable for building.
Planning Commission member Bellows inquired whether the
Carpenter property accessed off of the same private "Pillsbury
Road". Gaffron explained that property actually accessed off of
Russell, but at one time there was a connection. Chairman Kelley
stated that when the suDdivision off of Wcodhill was done, the
developers were told to close off that connection.