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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-06-2023 Park Commission Meeting MinutesMINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 1 of 14 ROLL CALL The Orono Park Commission met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Chair Brian Roath, Commissioners Taylor Stephens (arrived 6:10 pm), Janice Berg, Rick Carter, Gordy Stofer, Kjersti Duval, and Cameron Porter. Also present, Sandy Rasmussen, alternate commissioner. Representing Staff was Joshua Lemons, Park and Golf Course Superintendent. Chair Roath called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1. NOVEMBER 7, 2022 PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES Carter moved, Porter seconded, to approve the minutes of the November 7, 2022 Park Commission meeting as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 6, Nays 0. PUBLIC COMMENT None PRESENTATION None STAFF REPORT None CHAIRMAN’S REPORT Deferred 2. HACKBERRY PARK MASTER PLAN Park Superintendent Joshua Lemons reported staff is seeking approval to move forward with a master plan process for Hackberry Park as the City recently took control of 140 Hackberry Hill where the residents have moved out. The City had purchased the property in 2016 and can now take possession as it has been vacated. The park has two baseball fields, a sports field kind of in the middle, a playground and a large open space. He said staff is looking for is a recommendation to go ahead and get in touch with a contractor or designer to start working through that Master Plan process. Chair Roach said the project has been on the CIP (Capital Improvements Projects) for a couple years and the City is looking forward to redesigning that park. He said there are significant drainage issues there so the Master Plan should remedy that as well as perhaps adding some fields. He noted during the development of the Master Plan there will be plenty of opportunity for community input. Roath said he and Commissioner Stofer are the subcommittee and need to sit down and start putting a plan in place. He asked for comments. Carter said he thought it was a great idea. MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 2 of 14 Carter moved, Berg seconded, that the Park Commission recommend the City engages with a consultant to create a Park Master Plan at Hackberry. VOTE: Ayes 6, Nays 0. 3. GOLF COURSE PARK ENHANCEMENT Chair Roath reviewed the activity on the project including identifying sites, the community feasibility study and two open houses on January 10, and January 24 and called on Commissioner Porter, who is on the subcommittee, to report. Porter thanked residents who had attended the open house and who were present at the meeting. He said the community is really involved in this project and the number one thing he heard at that public session was that they had just started this out of nowhere. Porter said he wanted to reground everyone in where they had begun. He said at its November 2021 meeting the Park Commission was approached by community residents who advocated for building pickleball courts in Orono. After that meeting commissioners met as a subcommittee and started researching what could be done. Commissioners looked at various sites including the Casco Point rink, the Orono Orchards golf course, the fire department and the community garden behind the fire department and presented all these different sites. He also mentioned that the Orono Public Works facility, which might be being rebuilt in the next couple of years, as a site. They then ranked the sites and brought that back at the August 22 meeting where they recommended doing a feasibility study on whether courts could be built at the golf course. We received public comment a lot like tonight, where we got a lot of input of the pros and cons of the different sites. And it was brought forward that Orono Orchards would be a really interesting place to put it, not only from the feasibility that there's already some existing infrastructure there such as restrooms and parking, but also the synergies that we're seeing in the active sports across all of the different country clubs that are building pickleball courts. At the August meeting there was a unanimous vote to move forward the feasibility study of building a pickleball court at Orono Orchards. It would be built in the vicinity of the maintenance shed below the clubhouse. We listened to a lot of community input. Many of you are aware of petitions that have started. I've read all the comments. At the open houses you came and you engaged and you spoke with us. We really appreciate that because that's how we're going to get that interaction. Porter said he wanted to head off some of the misconceptions that have been seen on social media and that people have brought up. Some people thought that we are proposing a pickleball court at the golf course because the golf course needs a pickleball court. We're proposing a pickleball court because the community is asking for a pickleball court. And the golf course was one of the feasible options that we talked about back in August. It wasn't that we are looking for additional activities at the golf course where we want to take the golf course away, or it's golf course, or pickleball. That is not a reason that we are proposing this. It's not that the golf courses is floundering and we needed more activities there. We are purely trying to fill the need that the community has asked us for pickleball courts. There's a lot of input about the schools, why can't we just build this up the schools? We don't own the schools. That's not something that we have jurisdiction over. If you want to, talk to your school board members about building pickleball courts there. That's another option. Again, this is not pickleball or golf. This would be an addition to golf, if it was to show up at the golf course. There's also a lot of misconception about the history of the golf course. It is a very historic park. It is over almost 100 years old next year. But it's not MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 3 of 14 the oldest in the country. It happens to be one of the oldest in the State that has grass greens, as a public course. But we acknowledge history. He also said the golf course has changed over the years. Porter showed some of the comments from the open houses but agreed they were difficult to read on the screen. This is what the committee has to balance as far as can we build pickleball courts in our community? Can we build pickleball courts at the golf course? What does our community want and desire? There's a lot of thoughts that this is a done deal signed, sealed and delivered. I'm up here telling you it's not. We're just engaging our community at this point. We are excited about building pickleball courts; we had a number of people ask us to. We're excited about the golf course and the health of the golf course making sure people are aware that it's there. But this is just all part of the process. Park and Golf Course Superintendent Lemons said he had put together several options to consider. Option one would be to move into a preliminary design phase to help figure out exact costs on the project itself. The second option would be a recommendation to table the project and option three would be a recommendation to remove the project from the CIP goals. In November the CIP was approved. Based on that, he proposed a recommendation to start the preliminary design phase, option one. He said the feasibility study so far had looked at the possibilities of the site and conservative numbers and found that adding pickleball courts and a hockey rink would be feasible. Roach said he’d talked to several of the commissioners and what he’s heard is that the best next step is not to move forward with the preliminary design, and instead, to have a workshop in March, to fully discuss it as a commission. He said some commission members have been extensively involved in this project and others less so. He opened the discussion up to the commission. Carter agreed, saying he would pick option two which aligns with waiting. I wouldn't be comfortable recommending to go ahead with preliminary design, certainly not before we hear from everybody here. Duval said she also agreed. After attending one of the public meetings, and as one of the commissioners who has been less involved in this project, she said she would have questions to bring to the workshop Among them would be some of the observations from neighbors and golfers and looking at parking, noise and aesthetics. I look forward to the workshop, and I appreciate the opportunity for a little more time. Berg said she agreed. Stephenson agreed as well, saying he hadn't been presented with the comments from the open house until that evening. I think we have enough information to discuss before we spend more time and money on design because we have a conceptual design that allows us to have that discussion. Stofer acknowledged he was wearing a number of different hats in this process as a neighbor, a Parks Commission member, a passionate golfer, and as a board member of the Orono Youth Hockey Association. We haven't spent a lot of time talking about the hockey component of this, but it's as proposed a quarter of the price and so I think that needs to be further involved in this process to really MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 4 of 14 understand what their goals are here. I have a ton of respect for the work that the commission has done here and all the work Sandy and Cameron have put into this and I think pickleball is a great sport. I would love to see pickleball in Orono. I'd love to see more hockey in Orono. But as designed here, I have major reservations for this plan for a number of reasons, the first one being cost. It's just a staggering cost number. If anyone's stood out there, the topography of that site is significant. You probably couldn't find a less flat place to do something like this. We also have options right now in the city at Casco and other places that are not being utilized. Mother nature tends to win in the in the fight with outdoor ice. Also there are questions about ongoing maintenance for the hockey and the pickleball. How's that going to be funded? But as many of you know, my main interest in joining this commission was for the golf. I love this golf course; I think it's extremely unique and just a magical place. And it has a lot of history that we need to be celebrating and preserving, not taking away from, I would prefer to be spending all the time and energy I've been spending towards this proposal towards improving the golf course, the plant conditions, irrigation, drainage, trying to make that course as fun as possible for as many people as possible. Let's add forward tees, let's make the greens better, find ways to just make it an all-around more enjoyable place. With parking concerns, everything I've seen here, I don't really see how that adds to the course after three years of financial success. I just have a lot of concerns that this might jeopardize that and take away from the course. Ultimately, we're here to listen to the community and try to reflect those wishes with our park system. So I am willing to go forward to March but I just want to be here on the record saying I have major reservations with this proposal. Rasmussen said she is glad that the commission is going to take that time because those preliminary drawings were the “wouldn't it be nice if” kind of drawings that consider possibilities. There are a lot of ways that you can scale back. I think the thing that we miss in the debate over the site is that as a community, there's so little that brings us together on a regular basis to build community. And Orono, in particular, struggles with that by design, by its history. I think that as a community being able to bring together people in this way trumps a lot because we are struggling so much as a nation, as a state, as a city. People are feeling isolated. We've got a growing older adult population, and we need to figure out how to serve those populations better. And I think this is one of those opportunities and why you see it happening in so many other places. We know there's a lot of places that have figured out how to make activities compatible. We know that there are peak times at the golf course and I think there are absolutely ways to accommodate the people who play the leagues. The two don't have to compete with each other during those kind of peak times. I think what we haven't had the opportunity to do is to take that input, and as Josh describes, come up with different designs. What's the low-cost design? The phased design? What we've seen is the Cadillac sort of design, the wouldn't it be nice design. The most important to me is that we don't use the month of March to just not make any decisions, to just say we don't like the conflict, it's too intimidating. I think it is important that we make the decision based upon objective information, and not be driven by emotion or social media. We do need to vet it and give it serious consideration. But I also think that we've spent well over a year talking about this, and we have the information to figure out how to make it work if it's going to work. So let's be disciplined, let's participate in the process. Let's work together and move this conversation from where it is right now to something that I think would be a really a productive way to make this a great opportunity for this community. MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 5 of 14 Porter said there's a lot of what both members said that he absolutely agrees with. I think we've been asked about this for a long time. And we do need to make some progress forward. I also acknowledge that we have to listen to our community and understand what are those reservations? We have a long list of them. So ahead of that March meeting to make it as productive as possible, why don't all of you think about what you would need to help make a better decision, and let me know so that I can come prepared. I do want to just remind everybody that it's not pickleball or golf. We are making a lot of improvements in the golf course whether we're doing pickleball or not. Josh and team have done a fantastic job on the golf course making it much more playable. And that's has nothing to do with whether we're doing pickleball. I love golf, I've golfed there many times, I'm not looking to destroy the course or take away from the playability of the course by any means. So again, it's not one or the other. With that I also recommend we meet in March with option two Roath opened the discussion up to public comment. Ben Jaffray. I've had the privilege of living at 320 Orono Orchard Road for 42 years, therefore I've driven by this beautiful golf course a million times. I was interested however, in the correspondence. This project was called the Orono Golf Course Park. I have never thought about the golf course as a park. I've thought about the golf course as a real treasure for so many reasons. And that's why I use the word privilege to live in Orono. And I should also say it's been beautifully managed in those 42 years. I would like to hear a little bit more about the cost, I think I heard a million dollars -- the source of that money, what kind of return we expect on that money, and so forth. I'm sure that will all be forthcoming. I'm one of those that says we can consider it for six months, but I'm adamantly opposed because this is part of Orono, it's part of our character. And we don't want to make this beautiful site a playground as much as those playgrounds are needed somewhere in Orono. This is not a playground, that golf course. This is a treasure. TJ Bonnett, 40 Smith Avenue, said he had some concerns. It feels like a lot of people want option three around here and it seems like just tabling is a kind of delaying the inevitable. The neighbors I've spoken with that live around the park are very concerned about the noise and the parking. We came out here it was a beautiful rural community. We didn't really move to Chanhassen because we wanted a bunch of pickleball courts. I certainly wouldn't go to a pickleball court and say I want to build a golf course in the middle of it. I think it just really takes away from the appeal of the golf course, and just the general beauty and nature of it. I know we're out here to fix the world's problems. Golf is a great place to start. Craig Kraig Polly Pauly?, Plymouth. Cameron, are you sure you've been playing on the same golf course I've been playing? No offense, Josh. We've been through this, but it needs work. It does. And it needs money and resources. So I'm not sure if we're in the same ballpark here. As President of the Tuesday night men's Twilight League, the oldest golf league in the State of Minnesota, I'm proud to say that our home golf course has been here in Orono since 1946. That's how old our league is. With that being said, we want resources put into the existing golf course grounds and facilities, not a golf course enhancement MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 6 of 14 plan. If we're gonna put money into it, let's fix the tee boxes, let's put a new maintenance shed in. We got all kinds of stuff we can do. We don't need a grill. We need a good golf course. We don't have anything against the pickleball owners. We just don't think it's a good fit for this location for various reasons, which I'm sure you've all read in the comment cards from your open houses. Let's concentrate our efforts on improving the existing location and getting ready for the 100th anniversary of the Orono Orchards as a golf course, not a multipurpose facility that resembles the City of Plymouth more than the City of Orono. Dave Phelps, 1950 Fox Ridge Road, said he loves the Orono golf course. I applaud the commission for tabling it for a few months to really think it through, get some ideas, understand all the nuances about what's going on. Sandra, great idea, build more community, more community events. But I don't think that Orono Golf Course is the place to do it. We love playing pickleball. We also appreciate how loud it is and feel sorry for anybody living next to a pickleball court. I think it would be very impactful to the golf just from the noise. And you say not get everybody at peak times? Well, I think peak time is often the same for many people. We are big fans of option three and recommend keeping the golf course the golf course. There's got to be a place that costs less and is less impactful for pickleball courts somewhere else. Janie Delaney 1315 Woodhill Ave, asked if the public could have the comments percentage-wise as was done for Summit Beach so we know how many are for or against, not just a summary of the comments, because that doesn't really reflect the true response. Please do not spend any more of our taxpayer money on this project. The public is overwhelmingly opposed to this proposal at the historic Orono Golf Course. We need to hold a public hearing where citizens can speak openly and have their voice heard on the record. The January 10 and 24 Open Houses were not the same as a public hearing. They were passive events where citizens were reduced to written comments. Secondly, last spring, and you mentioned this earlier, the City Council authorized a feasibility study on retrofitting the existing public works building for pickleball and hockey. And that was paid for by our tax dollars. Where is this study? And why hasn't the study been discussed and put out for public review? Why isn’t that site under serious consideration? It provides for all-season play, indoor and outdoor courts, a flat area for high ice hockey, indoor storage area for your equipment and lots of room for parking. And third, we have 775 signatures on the Change.org. petition. I know you guys have minimized that. But there are a lot of people on there that want the golf course to remain as it is. They may not all be from Orono. But they all pay to golf there. A lot of them come from all over the place or have grown up here. I think I'll just end with reading a comment from the public from the petition, and it says “it's not the proposed alternate use that should be considered but the sanctity of a historic golf course. Golfing here for 38 years, inviting guests and golfers from all skill levels to share the way golf courses began, Orono Golf Course is a treasure that should be preserved as is and marketed as a historic place”. And I want you to go for option three. It just seems like the right thing to do. Dr. Damon Kenton, 1304 Elmwood Ave, said he and his neighbors in the Saga Hills area are not by the golf course but have been talking about this quite a bit. We're golfers and most of us enjoy playing pickleball. And several of us are season members of the of the golf course. A lot of the things we were talking about are more financial and what is viable, what isn't. So we're going to spend all this money to MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 7 of 14 build out a kitchen area for rotisserie hot dogs and pizza slices -- basically gas station food? I don't understand how that is beneficial or viable to anybody. From a parking standpoint, I've been there on League night and even the lower a lot I've seen them park way more than 25 cars down there doubling and tripling it up. From a financial standpoint, the gentleman from the league over there, I think he had some good points on the maintenance of the golf course. And if we turn this golf course around where it's almost impossible to park and the league people pull out, which I'm sure pay a lot of the revenue up there, and we stop playing golf up there? What does that do for the financial viability of the course in the long run? And then lastly, about the picnic shelter. We think it's a good idea. However, we kind of laughed because most of us have hit golf balls up there before. It is in bounds, I believe, and the last thing we want to do is hit some poor kid with a golf ball when they're having a picnic. Roger Adams, 1130 Underhill Circle said the previous speaker just touched on the one thing that he wanted to add to the equation, which is safety. We haven't heard a lot about safety. I play the course a lot. I play with a lot of guys that slice and off the fourth tee, they're aiming at the parking lot. And sometimes they hit it straight. And there would be golf balls coming off the first tee that'll go right where that court is off the fourth tee. And people who overshoot the ninth green. I think that's a serious issue that you have to consider in terms of placing a pickleball court right there. And as for parking in that lower lot, I don't know anyone who parks down there unless they absolutely have to, because it's dangerous. Kim Carswell, 261 Cygnet, said she thinks this is a major business decision. As you think about your workshop, think about like financially, what's it going to cost to maintain it, to build it, to operate it and then it's a good point about what will change with golf, safety, environmental concerns. And there's just a lot high and low spots there. I think timing seems tight, so I'm really delighted that you're pausing a little bit. And I would just love to hear how the workshop’s going to go so we can, as the public, be engaged and make sure that you don't drag the decision out. Maybe take some other sites and as you go through the buckets of financial, safety, environmental and timing, make sure that things are all at an equal. And I would say that I received a lot more communication on the open houses than I think most of us received back in November of 2021. I don't think that was well shared, so I think it was a surprise. We had so many emails about open houses, and that doesn't come through the newsletter. So I think there's some way if you slow this down and have that workshop, that would help maybe even the communication. Scott Prock, 540 Old Crystal Bay Road. I'm a former employee at the clubhouse. I don't know where to start. We need to concentrate on the basic maintenance of the golf course and focus on your core business. To the best of my knowledge, people pay to play golf there. And there was a serious possibility that one or two or three of the golf leagues were going to leave last year because of some changes that were made. You've got to protect what you've got there, the income that you've got, or you're going to be paying for a golf course that nobody plays on to support your pickleball courts. I was glad to hear from Josh that they've got in the works the watering system maintenance. And I think Cameron mentioned that there's a lot of things that you're going to do at the course. You should go out and sit on that deck on a hot afternoon. You won't last long. It's a beautiful deck and it works out great in the evenings when the sun goes down, but it's so hot out there. People don't spend a lot of time there after they play golf. And if MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 8 of 14 you're going to turn that into a place where you're going to concentrate on food and beverages, you may have to start doing quarterly minimums like they do at the private clubs to support it. Focus on your core business, get the golf course working again -- the watering system, the tees, teach the maintenance people how to cut the grass and the greens, and take care of the drainage problems and a couple of the dangerous walking paths, like number one coming down off of number nine when it's wet. David Klema, 40 Old Orchard Road, said living in the neighborhood he’s a city block or less from one of the club houses and the noise is definitely a concern. But that's not my biggest concern. Everyone's addressed that and I get it, but my focus is a little different. I'm more interested in the hockey rink side of it. We're here in Orono in the first week of February and it's raining outside. Outdoor rinks are not really viable anymore for youth hockey. If you want to team up with the Youth Hockey Association, the City of Orono and Youth Hockey Association are going to need to put some money into figuring out a different remedy than an outdoor rink. It's just not going to work so I guess that's my two cents. The City owns a lot of different real estate where there's more than enough room for it. I have no understanding of what's in the works or what could potentially be in the works that the Youth Hockey Association is working on but I've definitely noticed a few different lots in the city where something could be done because it seems like pickleball would mesh well with hockey, considering it's winter and summer sports. You can play pickleball in the winter, too, but it seems like it'd be great to have an outdoor rink with a roof over it where you can play pickleball, but you need to find a different location because there's not room at the golf course. Wayne Williams, Eden Prairie, said he’s not from Orono, so he wanted to let most of the residents go first. I play in the Tuesday night league. And a long time ago I worked at Woodhill so I know the course. I play the course a lot, even when I was younger. Most of my concerns have been covered. But some of the things I just wanted to throw out there, being from Eden Prairie, there is a city park every mile apart with paths and trails everywhere. And I notice here you've got like four parks, and they're all small and you've only got like 600 feet to play with. Is there any thought to maybe finding a new location, finding a donor to give you some land to put in the place you're talking about to get people to come together to put in a hockey rink to put in pickleball, to really make yourself a nice park kind of like Klapprich, where you could get something put together rather than trying to shoehorn this thing into the little spot at Orono? I pull balls off the second tee that would hit the pickleball courts, and I can overdrive two green and hit the fire pit. So it's not feasible. It looks really, really good on paper, but when that thing is built, the way you're talking about, it's not realistic. The other thing is revenue. Golf is up 30 percent across the country since COVID. Revenues are up 30 percent at Orono. I'm sure of that. And it's not just the league nights. There's parking issues there even when I go and play off-league nights. And if you try to build that parking lot down below, there are going to be cars hit. Some of the other things that weren't considered in the drawings, I noticed that the deck wasn't included. There's no warming house for the kids to put their skates on and those types of things. There's a lot of things missing. Like I said, it looks beautiful on paper. But I really don't think it's realistic. 48:00 MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 9 of 14 Bob Jaffray, Barrett Avenue, just down Orchard Road. I think the biggest concerns for me are the sound, the lights, the traffic and what’s going to happen to the area. I was a parent for a long time in youth hockey. There will be lots of traffic, probably up until 10 o'clock, and lights are on. Orchard Road itself will change dramatically. It’s just the change of the area in terms of the setting and solitude. It's just a radical change from what everyone has enjoyed for years, decades. I think it's a wrong decision. There's got to be a better place. I would vote for number three. Henry Brantingham, 3185 County Road 6, said he doesn’t golf and doesn’t live near the course but wanted to give a perspective on community input. I was at the open house. I had 13 seconds to read your summary of the of the comments, one of which was mine. I was gratified to hear that you're heading toward option two until 10 minutes ago. Unless you've got a bunch of people in the wings who are going to stand up and say this is a great idea, we ought to do it, unless you want to completely blow off your community input, it's option three. Forget the workshop. There's no reason unless you want to talk about some other location. That'd be a great workshop. But the golf course is, as far as I'm concerned, based on everything I've heard, it's got to be off the table. Marsha Rokke, 180 Orono Orchard Road, said she has lived 50 years in that house this month. Please don't destroy the golf course. Hockey rink? Do we have to buy a Zamboni then? What if the weather doesn't keep the ice frozen, then it's just too much. This is absolutely an incredibly not appropriate idea. Please go for option three. Or bag the whole thing altogether. Thank you, Gordy, for your comments, and your support. Brian Rasmussen, 1186 Wildhurst Trail said pickleball has changed his life. I think it's an extremely positive thing. And I wonder if it was 100 years ago today, and you guys wanted to put in a golf course there, would the neighbors be saying, well, there's gonna be a lot of traffic, that's gonna affect wildlife, where would we be today? Marsha Rokke, returning to the podium, said she just wanted to add one thing. There was no civic email for this meeting again. And it happens quite frequently. So the public did not get an email, if they're subscribed to it, saying there was a meeting tonight. It's got to be fixed. If you sign up on the listserve to be notified for the meetings, there was no notification. Julie Jones, 3349 Crystal Bay Road, said she and her husband love Pickleball and love golf. I have four kids and they started playing at Orono Golf Course and one of them played Division One golf. I took them sledding all the time at Orono. I have caught a glimpse of the gem. I'm glad you're picking option two. There's really no place in Orono to play pickleball besides on tennis courts that have pickleball lines and it's very, very difficult. Pickleball is the fastest growing sport in America. It's grown 40 percent. I'm a member at Lifetime and I played Division One tennis. Tennis players are kind of irked because they're changing tennis courts into pickleball courts, but it's just booming. I think to keep Orono vital you've got to stay with the times and there's a lot of demand and desire to play pickleball and it's not just old people like me, it is inter-generational. I'm hoping some of you have played pickleball with your kids. It's not just MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 10 of 14 summer; you can play up until it snows. It's a great sport. Thinking of the neighbors on option two, I would like you to look at the noise, and the effects of that. I picture maybe a couple of moms playing pickleball and their young kids are in the league, families kind of doing both things. I just am excited about you doing some more talking about it. And I know there needs to be more exploring. It's not going to ruin the golf course; it'll stay a gem. But stay with the times and keep attracting more people to come and live in Orono. I support (the plan). I think it's a great idea. Jack Reily 2130 Shadywood Road, Orono. I play golf. I play pickleball. And I know that both sports have pulled my family together. My granddaughter, who also lives in Orono, is a teenager and she plays golf with me several times a year during the summer. And as a family, three generations of us, usually two to three times a month, we play pickleball, both winter and summer and would love to have a facility outdoors in Orono where we could do that, hopefully for generations, God willing. I respect the history of this golf course. It is special, but it's not unique, so don't overplay that too much. There are already 60 golf courses in Minnesota that will be 100 years old by next year. By the end of the decade, there will be 100 golf courses in Minnesota that are that old. So it is special, but not necessarily unique. Unique to Orono? Yes. The golf course may be the wrong place. It may be shoehorning something in that doesn't belong there. But if you decide through workshop or otherwise that you're not going to proceed with that site, I think you owe it to the rest of us in the community that do want to come together and play pickleball on good courts in an outdoor location, preferably, that you have an obligation to find us that place and work with us, the community, to raise the money to do that. I think this thing got snowballed. It started with four pickleball courts for a price that we could get maybe half from the County. And then let's throw in improving the clubhouse. Let's put in a hockey rink. Let's put in a firepit. Let's put in a new shelter, etc, etc. Now people are able to say four pickleball courts are gonna cost over a million dollars, and that's not really the case. But again, if you do decide to have this workshop, or if you don't, because you just think it's a done fact that it's not going to happen at the golf course, I think the park board has an obligation to the citizens of Orono to find a safe place to enjoy our sport and work with us to get that built. Penny Saiki ,2874 Casco Point Road. I like golf. I like pickleball. And I love the disclosure that Janie Delaney said that there was a point where you're considering recycling the Public Works building here for pickleball. And there's a huge lot out there for hockey and outdoor courts. That's a huge space that the city owns already. We're not even 3,200 houses in Orono. And I don't know why we need three fire stations; two can cover the 3,200 houses. I mean, that's really special to have 1000 people for every station. And we're a special city, but I don't think we need to be that special. And as far as the golf course goes, I think one of the historic things is that it's not irrigated. My dad played it once and he said it is historic because that's the way golf started, you know, like in Scotland with the grouse and everything. It's natural, and it's a hole over there with your ball to get there. But you don't need to make it Pebble Beach. It can be the historic nature it is what it is naturally. My dad called it a cow path, but it's still the whole thing of when it's rainy, you get a nice lawn, but naturally it's a hill in a hole. MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 11 of 14 Richard Raiche. I lived in Orono for 25 years and I live in Wayzata now. I've been on the golf league, the Twilight League, the oldest one in Minnesota, for 40 years. I think I'm the oldest member or one of them. But I just had a couple of suggestions for the city to think about: number one, you do have two-acre zoning and if somebody really wanted pickleball they could put one in their own yard; that is an option. The other one is when you do a subdivision, you could include pickleball areas in that subdivision. Another thing is that pickleball courts can be on a highway, they can be on a playground, they can be places other than pristine an Orono majestic public golf course. It's just the wrong location. And I would suggest that you just pick number three, get it off the list, and not have it as an option at all. It's just the wrong thing to do. Katie Gronberg, 110 Leaf Street. I want to thank you all for all the work you've done trying to come up with some idea where to put some pickleball courts. I'm a golfer and a pickleball player. I was very active with my kids sports as they were growing up. Now they've all grown up. I didn't have a network of friends to hang around with like I did when my kids were in their sports. But now that I'm playing pickleball in Orono, I just loved meeting a lot of friends, people my age, a lot of pickleball players. And it's not just old farts who play there. It's other people too -- little kids, teenagers, single people, married people, couples -- it really covers a huge range of people who are getting together having a network of friends. I think Sandy made a really valid comment about how it can potentially increase our quality of life here in Orono when we have these spots we can gather and play a sport together. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't have to be at the golf course. I just think it's something our community needs. Pickleball is not going to go away. It's really popular. Somebody else said it's booming. And that's a fact. So I think we need courts in the community. Maryann Merideth, 405 Oxford Road, Orono. She just said a lot of things I want to say. Pickleball is growing. It's very important. I have three boys, they golf, and they play pickleball and golf and Pickleball are existing next to each other in in a lot of communities. The Wayzata golf club, all the golf courses, add pickleball and they coexist very well. So I would encourage option two. I think Orono really needs pickleball courts. Scott Prock?, 540 Old Crystal Bay Road. Do any of you remember the outdoor rink at the Orono School? Where is it? Do any of you remember the rink that was attempted at the Crystal Bay post office a couple of years ago? Where is it? How did that work out? Be careful with this new rink idea. Chair Roach closed public comment an opened it up to commission members. Carter said he would be ready to make a motion, not because I think it's a good idea to do pickleball at the golf course. My motion is that we go ahead with option two. We're pushing this far down the road, we get a chance to talk about it in a month. It's a heck of a lot easier to change the location of funded money in a CIP than to magically make it reappear later in the year. MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 12 of 14 Stofer asked to clarify if the commission recommends option 3, removing the project from the CIP, does that mean there's no place for pickleball to go this year on the CIP? Lemons explained the Golf Course Park improvement plan would be removed, which would bring pickleball with it. We don't have a separate pickleball item on the CIP. Carter moved, Berg seconded, to defer a decision on the Golf Course Park Improvement Plan and hold a workshop in March. VOTE: Ayes 5, Nays 2 (Stephenson and Stofer). An audience member asked about the March workshop in terms of how it would be conducted and how the public can follow the process. Roath explained the standard workshop format and said all information collected would be pulled together and distributed to the commission members in advance and the discussion would include the process so far and all alternatives. got here to what alternatives might be to what some, some phasing options might be. He pointed out based on the current commission schedule the April meeting was to be a workshop but would need to be a regular meeting so the commission could vote on the results of the workshop. Roath moved, Carter seconded, to change the April 3 Parks Commission meeting from a workshop to a regular meeting. VOTE: Ayes 7, Nays 0. . Commissioners asked at the March meeting to have information on all alternative sites with cost estimates and fundraising alternatives. Rasmussen asked if the project is moved from the golf course if the City would lose the Hennepin County grant? Lemons said it is correct that the grant is tied to the location and it would be too late to change it. Duval said it is necessary to learn a little bit more about that. She said she has been involved in other projects where grants have been able to be amended. We should find that out. Stofer added he would like to see the Youth Hockey Association represented at the March workshop. Rasmussen said the options explored need to be pickleball only and pickleball and hockey. At the end of the day, they'll have to make their choices. And that's fine. But we do need to know what the alternative looks like as well, because it is a significant part of the cost. It was also suggested by several persons that the Park Commission talk to the school district about possible involvement. MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 13 of 14 Duval asked for a sample one week schedule of programming at the golf course during the summer. 4. PARKS DEPARTMENT UPDATE Lemons said as of January, the City had had a winter's worth of snow in just a short amount of time. The parks department has been very busy plowing the parks, trails and sidewalks with less time for general maintenance. The City Council has done a lot for our parks department over the last few months. Recently they approved the purchase of a few new mowers which is a big upgrade at the golf course. We have been going through all of our irrigation satellite boxes which is what keeps the golf course irrigation system running. Golf course irrigation is meant to be supplemental but the last three years we've been in a pretty bad drought. The upgrades will replace some of the 30-year-old components in these boxes. The department had worked on an ice rink that day with a system that consists of a garden hose with pipe attached and a towel which he said works very well. Over the weekend the rink got a lot of use. The boards are provided at the hockey association and stored at public works and put out by staff. The department is gearing up for spring and thinking about Big Island dock repairs when they are able to do so. They will be putting in some new seed for new turf grasses are much more resistant to different diseases and more drought resistant at the golf course. A Crystal Bay Park restoration is slated for spring. The City will be hiring seasonal parks department workers soon. SPECIAL COMMITTEE REPORT None COMMISSIONERS’ REPORTS Berg said she appreciates that parks plows down to Lydiard Beach because a lot of people use that and walk and drive down there. Porter said he is appreciative of everybody who came tonight and to the listening sessions. It's great that you guys are getting involved. It's been a great year. It's just good to get engaged with the community. Carter said he had two things. One, I'd like to reassess not having the bathrooms open on Big Island in the winter next year. We have a lot of very positive traffic out there. People are hiking, snowshoeing and occasionally snowmobiling. And then I wanted to say thank you to Cameron and Sandy for all your work. He said they were laying bare all of the false things that are out there constantly and getting the group to focus on objective things. Duval said she did not have much to add other than to thank Lemons for the work he has done and his reports at the meeting, the work of the commissioners on the subcommittee and the public voices. Stofer said he just wanted to thank the community for showing up and putting energy into this topic. He said it was rewarding to know that everybody cares as much as they do. Porter added he has only hit one car in all of his years of golf and it was at the Orono Course hole number two. He said he is very familiar with cars in that parking lot. MINUTES OF THE ORONO PARK COMMISSION February 6, 2023 6:00 o’clock p.m. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Page 14 of 14 1:23:57 Berg agreed it's good that the public comes out and gives their views so that the commission can look at the issue in different ways. But she said she is very disheartened by the misinformation and the misleading information that's been disseminated. It's very hard sitting up here when I read that information, and I have no way to respond because some things are really not accurate that's being put out there. And that really is very disheartening. Because we're trying our best. Roath said he also wanted to thank everyone who came out. People, you guys have your hearts in the right place. You're trying to do the right thing. It's a lot of work to be up here and we don't get paid anything. That people are intentionally spreading misinformation is really a disrespect for the effort that we put in, and the time that we take away from our family and our friends to be able to do this. He urged people to beware about what they are reading on social media, stating the best sources of information are the Park Commission meetings and minutes, the City and the commissioners. He offered to sit down and have coffee with anyone who is interested in talking about the issues. 5. SEPTEMBER MEETING DATE Roath moved, Stephens seconded, to change the September meeting from Sept 5 to Sept 6 to avoid the day after Labor Day VOTE: Ayes 7, Nays 0. Porter moved, Stephens seconded, to adjourn the Orono Park Commission meeting at 7:27 p.m. VOTE: Ayes 7, Nays 0. ATTEST: _________________________________________ Brian Roath, Chair