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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-07-1977 Planning MinutesT}*-\ •■■ ;■ : ?:v . •^ ■;• V'’i- ; • .1 '■ »Ti>«).‘. L_ ■ • :-4: r >.-n • AGENDA EMISSION MEETING OF MAROI 7, 1977 m CITY HALL - 7:30 P.M. I. ojRRErrr items m A. Action Items «4_' A 1. 2. 3. 4. Call to Order Report by Jim Anderson of Hennepin County Soils Conservation Problems with on-site Septic Systems on Ha Soils Minutes of Regular Meeting of February 22, 1977 #200 - Victoria Grain Company - 500 North Ann Drive Sii>division (Preliminary) - New Plan #210 - Jack Rhode - 1410 Bohns Point RoaJ Variance - Lot Area 5 Width - Conditional Use Pennit Ski Tonka - Conditional Use Permit (Second Phase) Revised Proposal #234 - Stubbs Bay Marina - 3445 Bayside Road Revised Proposal #235 - North Shore Marina - 3222 North Shore Drive 1977 License Application Review #199 • Mrs. Robert Gasch - 1030 Tonkawa Road Variance - Fence Setback (Structure) Review Platting Ordinance Review Wetland Dredging and Duck Ponds (Moratorium) Review Park Status (Moratorium) District i B. Work Session Items ‘-a 1. #236 - M. Kathi Ellis - 3740 Wayzata Boulevard Conditional Use Permit - Dog Kennel (Animal Uhits in idesidential Zone) 2. #237 - WiUiam Odden - 3450 North Shore Drive Lot Area 4 Width Variance - Proposed Addition to Dwelling on Non-Confoiming Lot .y- ij" -V.it.*' Fir • ; ■ ‘ Agenda - March 7, 1977 Page 2 C. Incomplete Items 1. 1188 - Steve Wallack (T.M.G. Corp.) - 4100 Sixth Avenue N. Subdivision (preliminary) 2. #202 - Harrison Johnston - 925 Willow Drive Conditional Use Permit 8 Variance - Tabled - Moratorium 3. #209 - Richard Ledstrom - 3465 Sixth Avenue North Wetlands Variance - Conditional Use Peimit - Duck Pond 4. #217 - Robert Birkeland - 1298 Wildhurst Trail r Wetlands Variance - Dredging Peimit - Deferred - Moratorium II. COMPLETED ITEMS FOR COUNCIL A. Completed Items I O Jk 1. #220 - William Gregory - 1410 Shoreline Drive Vacation - Extension of Brackett Avenue - Tabled Per Applicant’s Request 2. #192 - Navarre Area Rezoning - Rezoned With Revisions 3. #199 - Mrs. Robert Gasch - 1030 Tonkawa Road - Variance - Fence Setback (Structure) - Tabled on Request 4. #200 - Victoria Graim Company - 500 North Aim Drive - Subdivision (Prelimiiiary) - Revised Plan - Concurred 5. #234 - Stubbs Bay f4rina - 3445 Bayside Road - Revised Proposal - Concurred e u«n Development) - 2477 Shadywood Road ■oval (B-4) - Concurred - Oieck Assessments ili/-- i"- V.: ■ •[rfc*.- i-. .'*W sSM m •i: •.j - i 1 :-1 ♦ « cm OF ORCNO, MINNESOTA REGULAR PLANNING Ca^^ISSION MEETING HELD MARCH 7, 1977 Cfthe Orono Planning Conmission met on the above date with th following menders present: Chairman Gregg Hannah, Menfcers Gloria McDonald, Diane Dunlap, Paul Pesek, ^d Dick Hassel. Also present were Hank Muhich, Zoning Administrator, and Mayor Brad Van Nest. Mr. Muhich introduced Jim Anderson of the Hennepin County Soil Conservation District to the Planning Commission. He stated that Mr. Anderson would be defining the difference between the characteristics of Hamel and Glencoe soils and mrshes, and the problems there might be with septic systems on these types of soil. Mr. Anderson graduated from Wisconsin with his Ph.D. and spent the last four years there vorking on the small scale waste management project. The primary function was working on on-site soil absorption systems and, more specifically, mound type or fill type systems. One of the booklets he handed out was entitled Landscapes, of H^epin County which was prepared by Patrick Kennedy, 1 other soil scientists whoDistrict Conservationist, and - - - - - worked for the County a coiqple of years ago. They groi^d ytthe soils of Hennepin County into certain groups, md thpr ^}ssigned these groups colors. They broke it dovn into what ^^ey called ’’landscape planning units'*, piey grouped the soils that had similar j^ysical characteristics (structure and texture, as well as hig^ water table, etc.). These groins are illustrated on the colored map supplied to Hank Mihich. When he first came here from Wisconsin, Mr. Anderson didj .-.t some work in Medina and Corcoran.- He looked at their soils- ~ and took as a criteria the 1971 Minnesota Department of Health's suggested ordinance and code regulations for individual sewage disposal systems. If we took their criteria >diidi said in areas of shallow ground water, the depth of the water table shall be detemined, no soil absorption systems shall be installed in an area where the water table is less than 6% ft. below ground level or 4 ft. below the bottom of the drainfield trench. This has some drastic inplications for the conventional on-site soil absorption system which is normally used in hcsnes today. In the two comnunities of Hamel and Corcoran, about 20-221 of the soils in the area would actually end up being suitable using that criteria and the criteria of the 60 min. per inch perculation rate. Orono is no exception, as you could readily tell if you were a little more experienced in using the color charts. O L ATTENDANCE - 7:30 P.M. JIM ANDERSON - HENNEPIN COUNTY SOIL CONSERVATION DISTRICT PROBL04S WITH ON-SITE SEPTIC SYSTBIS ON Ha SOILS M. PIN TICN E SEPTIC , V RSfflT^ MINUreS OF A PLATTING CawiSSICN MEETING HELD mo, 7. 1977 . i>have^ for functioning ^ system, if any, could you coin* sort ^ of the things that was devised^n'w^^ work? system. Through the yea“ “*”d ^ere you have probl^ns with cirm.ri specific areas: perculation rates that end un *»t*» ♦ P®fjncable soils with inch and have a seasonally Idah mins, per the situation you find^rS^fJef^^'^v is ss.’srssLs^ ■“ " s‘“f' amount of the^chni^ reso^fol ^ posed WPC 40 rtgulat^^^S^^kf^i-^^^^ P™“ incoiporated thSe for use on problem tyoe^soii systems conventional type sStems ^ normal mound system for hiS water soils and the secondw^ a permeable a back fill over^ siAsurface trench with that may be marginal for a SnvenHfJ?'?^ ® situation maintain a proper separation system, you can and the highl^taoi leve? ^ ^ UUm.v ______ . ^ ^ _ ®SSJer irSs^-Iaii7o„“‘: ps^jS'sSTsSit^ts^'r^ri? thathas been saturated. that at some time the soil colored bSe^dicates^Sat Se^* ^ ts5easonal-!St.™M !?*,?!?* ,*® problem is a tflMA 4e *■ 1.T - the SisiiSGnal watAitable is surface; medifnTw^,reet of the Jilyfi - marsh areas. evidengg of .SatmajjgUj ikxh »ou^S®s^toS fo^a'hiS^^i^’witeJ“S*ir^J^? *?® rooTs-STrl?^ nlJiaSyC^i^Hwter and ^ highest fill, it would maintain^us^iv^ ?f t ^ soil during this winter ^ ^ ^ unsaturated 1^ rammd^ysSr^ Wh^t \S'a'^irof is you wx^i_ k a ;n;et"rf smd“J^?2*" “ y°“ wiil*fi?r the water level is eoine * wound system and surface. When ym i^S'y^Sr^ffllS^® * sit « the surface JIM .ANDERSON REPORT (continued) v-i.. ■ >v V ar--% ■•- ■>-' •• v\ ■ 1 .■v:> 1 aAUiM MINUTES OF A PLANNING CCHUSSION ^CE^ING HELD M/VROl 7, 1977 - PAGE 3 mounds. According to the Minnesota Health Department, Wisconsin Health Department, and just id>out every other health department in the country, once you get the surfacing of this effluent, your system is considered failed and it is a health hazard. JIM ANDERSON REPORT (continued) Mr. Anderson referred to Orono's Ordinance established in 1961 and still in effect now which states that the system has to function in a sanitary manner and will not create a nuisance nor a danger to the safety of any domestic water supply. So it fails. What other solutions are there. Obviously, you can't put a conventional system in here either because they will flood out also and the shallow trench system won't work either. The only altemative that I can come \jp with rigjit now is a holding tank. Ihat means that it is sealed conq[>letely and once every so many weeks when it needs pumping out you have to have someone come out and pump it. a There is only so much that you can determine from a percula- tion test. If you feel that there is an area that m^ have some problems, the only way you can figure out if you are going to have problems or not is to actually look at it. This involves taking soil borings and running a perculation test. It is an unattractive measure to use as tne sole criteria for determining whether or not we want to put in a soil absorption system. In addition to the other factors that 1 was taking about (heij^t of the water t^le, water table evidence, texture of the soil), location deserves ‘equal wei^t and probably more. What you are attenpting to find is tne rate of water. Sometimes the soil is saturated whm you make the test; sometimes it isn't. Depends on the soil. If you do the perculation test ri^t, you can make thathe sort of answers that you want as easily as you can get answers that don't pass. This is what is the matter with the perc test and the reason \itiy it shouldn't be the sole criteria for \diich to base your answer. It doesn't simulate the conditions that you have under these soil absorption systems. There are a lot of o^er factors that enter into this. If the perc test is done properly, it will give you a relatively good idea of vdiat sort of problems you will have with your soil. Mr. Muhich inquired if a satisfactory perc test could be made during the winter months. Mr. Anderson explained that conditions in the winter would make it virtually iiipossible to get prq>er readings on these tests. Mr. Anderson stated that the mound systems are usually larger than the conventional systems. They take up more area and are designed to utilize more of the soil around it. It is part of the treatment aspect. We reconmend that the minimum lot size be between 2-2H acres. On that ^•2h acres, we reconmend that you have your initial site, us room to put in a replacement if it becomes necessary. iL MINUTES OF A PLANNING CO^aSSION MEETING HELD WKOl 7, 1977 - PAGE 4 •He agreed that the rest of the area could be Ha soil if a mmicipality so desired. He further stated that you could build on Ha soil, but he wouldn't want his house and base* ment on Ha soil. The Mayor asked Mr. Anderson if our ordinance were to be modified, could we make the statement that you must have two acres of dry buildable land (excludes all the marsh areas) and of that acreage there must be a certain percen­ tage (25-301) of the following classifications of soil %diich would exclude Ha to design a septic system? Short of that, if the lot is totally Ha, do you feel we would be on thin ice to say it would be allowable to create a sub­ division with one lot being totally on Ha soil? Mr. Anderson reconmended that this lot be cut out and maybe be divided up between the two lots on either side of it. When asked if we should prohibit holding tanks Mr. Anderson's reply was yes. Ibey are quite expensive and have to be chedced closely. He felt if you have an exist­ ing problem and a holding tank is the only solution, fine; but don't create a new s^division under these circum­ stances. The yellow booklet which he handed out. Soils and Soil Absorption Systems - prepared by the Hennepin Soil and Water Conservation District, could be used as a guideline in developing standards for a sanitary ordinance. The Planning Commission thanked Mr. Anderson for taking the tine to make this presentation. Pesek .moved,^ Dunlap seconded,, that the minutes jof the February 22, 1977, meeting be approved. • Motion'—a • Ayes (5) ^ NayS- (0). The following were present: Robert Cargill and Richard Doherty, owners of Victoria Grain Conpany; Steve Wilensky and Mr. Brauer, Brauer and Associates; John Lanbin, developer; and John Hacking, Attorney. The Zoning Administrator presented the third set of plans (second revised set). The newly revised proposal includes a multiple dock and walkway over the marsh to the channel. Mr. Wilensky brought forth a three-dimensional topog model of the site. Attorney Hacking explained that the City would be given a conservation easement over all outlets with the following COTditions: O Outlet A could, at some future date, be combined with the existing substandard lot to be used as one confom ing building site. JIM ANDERSON REPORT (continued) APPROVAL OF Iii:i MEETING FEBRUARY 22, 197Z-‘7 VICTORIA GRAIN COMPANY 500 NORTH ARM DRIVE SUBDIVISION (PRELIMINARY) NEW PLAN (#200) MINUTE OF A PLANNING OOMISSION ^CETING HELD MARCH 7, 1977 - PAGE 5 . The property owners of the seven parcels would retain the Tight to maintain the dock on Outlot B. 3. Maintenance dredging on Lots B and C. Oiairman Hannah inquired about the legal access to the dock. He was informed that the proposed site provides for a 25* strip giving each lot owner the right to get to the dock. There would be foot traffic only on this access. VICTORIA GRAIN COMPANY SOO NORIH ARM DRIVE (continued) (#200) The Planning Comnission was greatly concerned about the proposed do^ and dredging from the environmental stand­ point. Some menbers felt that construction of a dock over the swamp could create a precedence. Mr. Brauer informed the Conmission that of the three proposals submitted, this current plan would be the second least damaging. It is his feeling that the original pro­ posal involving the dredging would create less of an impact. ‘a-:.' Ihe Planning Conmission reminded the applicant of the current moratorium on wetlands dredging in effect until July of 1977. Applicant advised that proposed dredging would not take place until FObruaiy of 1978. However, the pilings for the proposed dock should be driven while the marsh is still frozen. Ihey would like to proceed as soon as possible. The Zoning Adainistrator inquired if the required piling and dredging would necessitate a variance from the moratonuB. Ihe Planning Commission deteimined that a variance was not required. After some discussion, the Conmission determined that althouji^ some Hamel soil (Ha) conditions exist on ^ Lots 4 and 5 these lots would still ccxitain adequate dry buildable area. : After some discussion, Dunlap moved, Hassel .seconded, to recommend approval of the preliminary plat subject to the following conditions: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. Developer obtain approval of other agencies (ENR, Minndiaha Creek Watershed District, IMCD) for the proposed dock and dredging. That Mr. Brauer, developer's engineer, submit a written report regarding the environmental impact of the proposed dock and dredging. Conservati(m easement over all outlets as agreed. Vdiicles would be restricted from the connon access to the dock. Appropriate Paiic Dedication Fee. Approval of City Engineer and Attorney. O m- P ■/ ^ .. f f.’ ’y m MINUTCS OF A PLANNING OWtOSSION MEETING HELD MARCH 7, 1977 - PAGE 6 . 7. ‘Approval of septic system for each individual parcel ^ before building peimit is issued. 8. The dock <ai (Xitlot B vrould service only the projected seven parcels of the sibdivision. Motion: Ayes - 3 (Hannah, Dunlap, Hassel), Nays - 1 (Pesdc) Abstain - 1 (McDonald). The Zoning Administrator stated that he had contacted Mr. Rhode regarding the status of his application. He was advised that Mr. Rhode suffered a heart attack at the b^‘'ming of the year. However, Mr. Rhode still plans on it .emitting a revised proposal as soon as he is able. Haimdi moved, Hassel seconded, to table this application until the necessary data is received, ^fetion - Ayes (5), Nays (0). The Zoning Administrator explained that no additional material or application has been sibmitted. Hannah moved, Pesek seconded, to table this matter uitil we receive this data. Motion - Ayes (5), Nays (0). Mrs. Gasdi was present. Once again, she reminded the Planning Conmission of the error that was made at the time Mrs. Parten’s house was constructed concerning the ^)t)lacement of the house on the lot and the setback from the lake in relation to the adjoining property owners. Mrs. Gasch related that time has helped the situation. Mrs. Parten is npw living in her home and is more aware of Mrs. Gasdi's loquest for privacy. . She also r.- stated that Mrs. Parten is now agreeable -to the .pro-. . posed fence and would be willing to submit a written statement to that effect'.. Mrs. Gasdi also informed the Commission that ahe would he planting evergreens: along tiie fence. .v.When the^day came that she could remove the fence die would do so. After a brief discussion, Hassel moved, Pesek seconded, to recomnend approval of the proposed fence based on the current status to try and alleviate some of the problems involved. Approval is sibject to a written statement of approval from Mrs. Parten and the plant­ ing of evergreens to include the removal of this fence at some future date. Motion - Ayes (5), Nays (0). Member McDonald left at 9:55 p.m. The Zoning Administrator presented the proposed site and elevation plan. The applicant is requesting roval of an addition to the existing Marketing ^arch Center oi County Road #19. Proposal consists of two floors. The first floor will be occupied by the applicant and the second floor will be rented out VICTORIA GRAIN COMPANY (Continued) (#200) '! ,,^JACK RHODE 1410 BOHNS POINT ROAD VARIANCE - LOT AREA 8 WIDTH - CONDITIONAL USB PERMIT (#210) SKI TONKA CONDITIONAL USE Pi (SECaND PHASE) REVISED PROPOSAL MRS. ROBERT GASOi 1030 TONKAWA ROAD VARIANCE - FENCE SETBACK (#199) FREVERT 4 HALL (TONKA WEST DEVELOMNT) 2477 SHADYWOOD ROAD SITE AND ELEVATION PLAN APPROVAL (B-4) cot^m rr j AREA ( ONAL USE i>!VL5i_ ! PI oi M) £ SETBAOC MIMJTES OF A PLANNING CXMQSSION MEETING HEU> MAIKH 7, 1977 - PAGE 7 unUl such a t^vdten the applicant would be able to take second floor. Proposed addition would be 3,360 so 42 parking spaces which meets the rncSs^ requireniSt. be of the same architecture and ^ ” ^ pre^t stnicture. There willbe no «mge in tiie natural drainage. The access to the will be moved slightly to the south. Applicant removing yproKimately 10-11 trees. The Planning ttot seme additional screening be along the ^ of the property. The Zoning* AufliinistTstor infoned the Comussion that the sewer and water assessments would need to be resolved. ^ter a brief discussion, IXmlap moved, Pesek seconded, to lecorond approval of the site and elevation plan subject to the following: ^ (1) Additional screening be planted along the back r^\ conmercial and residential area.(2} CaiDination of lots. (3) Sewer and Water Assessments be resolved. Motion - Ayes (4), Nays (0). JJp. McQeimr submitted a revised proposal for Stubbs Bay )MBnna. The new proposal consists of a 50' x 80* stxucture to be used for the servicing of boats and sale There would be no storage of Dons ewept for the purpose of sale or rroair. The proposed stnictuie meets all setback-lequirementSb rejdewed the rsite and elevation «io-structure.‘ :The exterior surface of the *-«id>in«fion^ wood. ' aroiitectural metal panel and manserd shingled roof to provide a contrasting affect or appearance. ^er a brief discussion, Pesek moved, Duilap seconded, to recomnend approval of this proposal as submitted sil)ject to the following conditions: (1) No change to shoreline. (2) temoval of all other existing buildings. (3) No permanent exterior boat storage. Notion - Ayes (5), Nays (0). FREVEKT 4 HALL (continued) ! \\ ; I 6^7 ■■■ IF ^ -w ..a!J • •••: • V •• V.. V-* g."/:. ■■■,■■ V.' r.v.: iriUBBS BAY MARINA 3445 BAYSIDE ROAD REVISED PROPOSAL (♦234) (TONKA WEST ROAD ION PLAN The PljTOiing Conmission felt that the proposal lacked adequate plans and data. Conmission deteimined this Amfiioposal actually consisted of a request for an expan­ sion of a legal non-confomdog operation and expansion ^K)RTH SHORE MARINA 3222 NORTH SHORE DRIVE 1977 LICENSE APPLICATI(»I REVIEW (#235) MINITT^ OF A PLANNING OO^^fISSION MEETING HEU) MARCH 7, 1977 - PAGE 8 © % fif tho current legal boat storage (lakeshore connercial on residentially zoned land). Hassel moved, Pesek seconded, to table this iqjplication for fiirthur review. Motion - Ayes (4), Nays (0). Xathi Ellis was present and the Coninission discussed her proposal with her. She is requesting approval to operati a kennel located near the intersection of Gointy Road #6 and Highway 12. This facility would be used for the boarding of snail dogs. The general consensus of the Planning Gomnission was that this proposal deser^^ soae consideration. The pn^)osed location of this kennel is in a residential zone; however, the Coandssion was not in favor of any rezoning. Planning Coniaission instructed the Zoning Adbninistrator to contact the City Attorney for some direction concerning Ordinance #34.822 Stock Farms and how it would relate to tills application. No action was taken as this was a work session iteai only. The Plaming Gomnission determined that the proposed addition would conflict with the access easement to the lakeshore lot (Parcel 4400). Goamission instructed the Zoning Administrator to inform applicant that some set­ back tould be required from this easement to maintain access to this back property. This was a work session item only. The Planning Gomadssion, di soissed' the plattiiig-ord-inmcg; Pesek moved, Dunlap'seconded, that the-meeting be adjourned at 11:20 p.m. 5W.A * »•- - - ^ . .. ... 1 • ■ ■1 -C ■'v'?.' ^ ■ •f . ; > ' • u- o NORIH SIVffiE MARINA (continued) (#235) M. KATHI ELLIS 3740 HMYZATA B0UI£VARD OONDITICNAL USE PERMIT 30 DOGS GN RESIEENTIAL PROPERTY (#236) i.3 •I 4 .ijij yjWILLIAM 3450 NORIH SHORE DRIVE VARIANCE - LOT AREA « WIEOH PROPOSED ADOmCN TO DWELLING (M NON-OONIORMIN6 LOT C»237) ■ ■ REVIEIf OF PLATTING iINANCE.•.Ml. ADJOURMCNT ;>'11:20 PJ4;