Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-13-1978 Planning Minutes© AGENDA PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 13, 1978 COUNCIL CHAMBERS - 7:30 P.M. I. CURRENT ITEMS A. Action Items r-. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Call to Order Roll Call Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 21, 1977 Minutes of Regular Meeting of January 16, 1978 Minutes of Regular Meeting of February 6, 1978 Minutes of Regular Meeting of February 27, 1978 #217 - #317 - #334 - Robert Birkeland - 1298 Wildhurst Trail Dredging Reconsideration - If Necessary Data is Submitted Tim Adams - Farm at Long Lake - 820 Brown Road South Subdivision - Final Plat Approval George Jackson - 90 Willow Drive South Subdivision - Final Plat Approval B. Work Session Items 1. #359 - Betty Buesgens - 3067 Farview Lane Wetlands Variance - Bridge Over Wetlands 2. #360 - Joe Whitney - 780 Old Crystal Bay Rd. S. Subdivision (Planned Residential Development) Sketch Plan Review 3. #361 - N. C. McDonald - 1225 Shoreline Drive Variance - Lot Area & Width - Side Yard Setback % Incomplete 1. #333 - Items Thomas Lyon •• 4"’90 North Shore Drive Variance - Lot Area 2. #294 - James McCleary - 3445 Bayside Road - Lacks Additional Dredging Application for Stubbs Bay Marina 3. #306 - Colpepper Land Co. (Neslund) - 40 Orono Orchard Rd. N Subdivision (Preliminary) - No Revised Plan 4. #308 - Sidney Rebers - 2060 Wayzata Boulevard Subdivision (Preliminary) & Rezoning 5. #319 - West Shore Lafayette Bay Association 2440 Old Beach Road • Dredging & Disposal of Spoils 6. #348 - Richard Ledstrom - 3405 - 6th Avpnue North Subdivision (Preliminary) Data CITY OF ORONO, MINNESOTA REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING HELD MARCH 13, 1978 1 The Orono Planning Commission met on the above date with . ATTENDANCE the following members present: Commissioners Hurr, Frahm, Hass el, Hemmerel, Hannah and Chairwoman McDonald. Com­ missioner Wilson was absent. Also present was Zoning Administrator, Hank Muhlch. Chairwoman McDonald asked for any corrections to the Minutes of Noveniber 21, 1977. There being none. Com­ missioner Hannah moved. Commissioner Hurr seconded, a motion to approve the minutes of the November 21, 1977 meeting. MINUTES Motion, Ayes (6), Nays (0). Motion passed unanimously. Chairwoman McDonald asked for any corrections to the Minutes of January 16, 1978. There were corrections on pages 11, 14 and 15. There being no further corrections. Commissioner Hassel moved. Commission Hurr seconded, a motion to approve the Minutes of the January 16, 1978 meeting as amenddd. Motion, Ayes (6), Nays (G). The motion passed. O Chairwoman McDonald asked for any corrections to the Minutes of February 6, 1978. It was noted there were corrections on page 14. There being no further correc- ti ons. Commission Hannah moved. Commissioner Hurr seconded, a motion to approve the minutes of the February 6, 1978 meeting as amended. Motion, Ayes (6), Nays (0). The motion passed. The Zoning Administrator stated Mr. Birkeland had called him and stated he would not be attending the meeting. Hannah moved, Hammerel seconded, a motion to table the request by Mr, Birkeland for dredging reconsideration until the applicant submits the necessary additional data. ROBERT BIIOCELAND 1298 Wildhurst Tr. Dredging Recon­ sideration #217 Motion, Ayes (6), Nays (0). The motion passed. O The Zoning Administrator stated that on March 10, 1978 he was informed that Item #358, variance application to allow three lakeshore lots rather than two as recommended by the Planning Commission, was not to have been presented to the Planning Commission, but was only to have been filed as a variance application as a matter of record. FARM AT LONG LAKE 820 N. Brown Rd. Variance #358 m‘'Vv- minutes of the planning He referred to the Jamiary 25, 1978 and February 21, 1978 letters from Stephen Pflaum, Tim Adams attorney, and also the March 7, 1978 letter from Tim Adams. He stated that et the last meeting the Commission did not have all the answers they have today. He explained that this plat is a copy of the final plat and that the final plat, my­ lars and hardshells have not been prepared yet, until it is approved, due to the expense. Farm at Long Lake #358 (continued) The Planning Commission questioned the locations of the pro­ posed buildings in relation to front, side and rear setback requirements. Hurr informed Mr. Adams that the bam must be 150 ft. from the side lot line. The Zoning Administrator reviewed the setback requirements in the 2 acre zoning district. Tim Adams stated they originally planned a 14 ft. gravel road with 10 ft. of paving. However, now they have decided on a 20 ft. gravel base with 10 ft. of paving down the middle. Jim Olson, City Engineer, stated he had reservations with only 10 ft. of paving over a 20 ft. gravel base because of the safety factor, especially when a car is coming up over a hill. He stated they would prefer gravel only and that it should be 24 ft. wide which would allow for some encroachment. He commented that one of the private roads is about 1,000 ft. long and the other is about 1,200 ft. long and that the minimum standard width for cars is between 11-12 ft. The Zoning Administrator stated Orono requirements are such that if a private road exceeds 500 ft. in length, a wider right-of-way must be provided with a cul-de-sac radius of 50 ft. Hassel stated he was concerned about approving a situation which would be dangerous. Mr. Adams replied they will be changing the purchase agreements to include 20 ft. of pavement and that they plan to include 10 ft. paved areas with several 20 ft. paved areas at critical points. Commissioner Hassel questioned if this would be practical. t i] i o Jim Olson responded that a person who drives in the area often flnd is accustomed to the situation would be cautious, but the same would not necessarily be true of a person who seldom drives the roads and is unfamiliar with them. He added that the 10 ft. of paving with gravel on either side will result in erosion and the wearing down of the gravel. Hassel stated he realized aesthetics and dust are a pro­ blem, however, he felt the dust problem could be treated in some way and that the safety factors should be resolved. i / 1 . minutes of the planning commission meeting held march 13, Tim Adamp cited the development directly east of his property which was quickly built up in contrast to this development where he anticipated no more than 10-11 homes within the first year. 1978 - PAGE 3 *^arm at Long Lake #358 (continued) Jim Olson stated to have private gravel roads is not the general policy, and the erosion and safety hazards must be taken into account. He added that if the idea of private roads also produces problems then this policy possibly should be changed. Hassel explained when roads are taken back by the City in areas where the roads have not been maintained, there is no developer to absorb costs. Jim Olson commented that by State statute the City Coimcil has the right to assess the cost back to the affected properties if the property owners ask the City to take over the streets. However, if the City of Orono chooses differently it may do so. The Zoning Administrator added that at present these costs are provided for in the general fund. Hannah asked how frequently it would be necessary to add gravel to the roads to prevent erosion. Mr. Olson replied it would be very difficult to estimate, but depends a great deal on the base. O Hammerel felt the roads in this area most likely would be maintained properly since the homeowners w>uld be paying a great deal for the lots and homes in this area. Hurr cited other areas with homes of high value where this was not the case and she did not feel the value of property necessarily indicated the home owners would properly main­ tain the roads. Tim Adams stated the people buying homes are legally bound to maintain the roads. Also, property owners have only 18 months in which to build a house after purchasing a lot, at which time he will buy back the lot. Hassel expressed concern that with private roads the pro­ blem of maintenance and additional costs could be tied to the City. He suggested the whole policy of private roads be reviewed. Tim Adams read from the association agreements which noted the City of Orono will be held harmless for the maintenance of the roads. Hannah noted in the Farview Subdivision the developer put in the roads, but the private road now is a city street. PLANNING Jim Olson commented if these were City streets they would FARM AT LONG LAKE have to be at the minimum 26 ft, wide, adding that the base 820 N. Brown Rd. at least should be up to City standards because the sur- Variance face can always be brought up to Code. #358 He stated there is net a clear cut answer regarding safety, erosion and maintenance. He recommended approval of a 26 ft. wide road with bitiiminous surface with curbs and other erosion measures, adding that a 10 ft. paved surface on a 20 ft. wide road would be unsafe. Hannah reviewed the Commissions' concerns which were for the developer's intent to keep the area rural in nature and for the road width to be such that it will be safe for the area residents. Hassel suggested addressing the rest of the plat and if the general feeling of the Commission is to approve it, the Commission can ask the Coiincil for guidance on the widuh of the road. O Jim Olson stated as far as Lot 20, it accesses onto the road just over the top of the hill and it is difficult to see from the west and this situation will have to be dealt with accordingly. The Planning Commission discussed the roads within the plat. The Zoning Administrator asked about the private access from Lots 20 and 22 to the outlot. Tim Adams stated this would be an easement and that his engineer has told him that the County will not accept the plat with the easements on it. Jim Olson commented without the easements these lots would be landlocked. He also stated if there is access, even if it is a private easement, it must be shown on the final plat. It was also noted there were no locations of existing struc­ tures on the plat. Tim Adams stated none of the lot lines on the final plat are any different from the preliminary plat and that nothing has changed. Jim Olson asked if the old existing house would be taken down. Tim Adams replied this will be done in accordance with Orono regulations. The Planning Commission reviewed the location of the existing structures. The Zoning Administrator stated the Orono • i 'it. m . ■ minutes o o 3. location of all existing structures 4, location of proposed fences on wetlands Motion, \yes (6), Nays (0). The motion passed. Commissioner Hannah stated he felt they should keep in mind the safety aspect plus the developer's intent, and also provide the best road width that will also be safe and keep the country atmosphere. Jim Olson stated the minimum that could be approved is 20 ft., but they would like to see about 24 ft. with emphasis on the base more so than the bituminous sur­ face. The Conmission discussed roads and how the City could take over the private road and pay for costs of maintenance. Hurr felt fencing the wetlands was against the Ordin­ ance and suggested asking the City Attorney for his recommendation. TdLm Adams asked if the Planning Commission should be in­ volved in designing private roads. Hannah stated the Conmission is not trying to design, but are only trying to ensure safety. Hassel stated if the City Engineer recommends 20 ft. and if the Commission is told by the developer this is a hardship, and if it is determined a 10 ft. strip is not safe, then the Commission must address this problem. Jim Olson recommended there should be evidence that each lot could support a satisfactory septic system and ad­ vised the Commission to get this Information before final plat approval. Hurr addressed riparian rights and asked if the City Attorney had responded to Mr. Pflaum's March 7, 1978 letter on this. The Zoning Administrator stated he has not re­ ceived this information yet. The Planning Commission Indicated they wanted this infor­ mation before the next meeting. Hurr felt the pedestrian easement would be granting riparian rights and if the Commi;3sion stipulates the allowed uses of the lake access easements, this would be a change in FARM AT LONG LAKE 820 N. Brown Rd. Variance i^35S liiiilii: .> ... .7' minutes of the planning commission meeting held march 13, 1978 - PAGE 7 policy and should be addressed. She thought the use of the lake should be clarified. H Hassel stated perhaps the Commission should check with the Council on this matter. FARM AT LONG LAKE 820 N. Brown Rd. Variance #358 Chairwoman McDonald stated she talked with A1 Olson and that he was to get a letter from the City Attorney regarding this easement. Tim Adams stated they have evidence from another engineer that there is a satisfactory septic system. Jim Olson stated that would be another opinion, not evidence. He stated It is implied that with large lots and a rural atmosph:.^;ir€i in Orono there is a great need for a satis > factory on-site sewage facility. Tim Adams stated they significantly changed lot lines to avoid problems with septic systems and that they have taken measures within their purchase agreements that if there is no way to support a satisfactory on-site system the potential buyer does not have to buy the lot and that they have 24 lots on 65 acres of property. Hassel stated poosibly the Council could review the policy on this, adding that it is costly to drill for testing without knowing the exact location of the proposed homes. Frahm suggested there be an affidavit that the City of Orooo does not have to issue a building permit on any of the lots if it will not hold a satisfactory septic system. Jim Olson stated the phosphorous discharge from a pasture is more detrimental than discharge from other things and should be kept in mind. Hassel stated this is a policy decision which should be addressed by the Council. Chairwoman McDonald stated one of the Commission members should go to the next Council meeting to discuss these policy questions. Commissioner Hassel stated he would try to attend. The Planning Commission indicated they would like direction from the Council regarding the following issues: i n mSK: o 'ifw 'r MINUTES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING HELD MARCH 13, 1978 - PAGE 8 1. 2. 3. the requirements of the roads FARM AT LONG LAKE 4. 5. 6. 7. boundaries of the pasture and conservation easements \idiether or not the access easement between lots 19 and 21 should be Indicated on the plat clarification of the possibility of the pedestrian easement providing riparian rights for non-lakeshore lots reply from the City Attorney regarding Tim Adams' attorney's letter If It would be necessary to have soil tests done for septic systems If fencing of wetlands would be allowed 820 N. Brown Rd. Variance #358 Hannah stated these Issues are very Important Items which are very necessary to be resolved before action Is taken on this proposal. The Zoning Administrator stated that the applicant has lengthened the 60 ft. road and will be following all specs up to City regulations. He explained the plat was just a copy of the preliminary plans with drainage easements on It. GEORGE JACKSON 90 Willow Dr. So. Subdivision (FINAL) #334 0 W Hassel moved, Hannah seconded, a motion to approve the final plat for siibdlvlslon of the property at 90 Willow Drive So. by George Jackson. .jiH Mmm’'mm/ Motion, Ayes (6), Nays (0). Motion passed. The Planning Commission discussed the work session Items. Mr. Joe Whitney was present. He explained there were two plans submitted. One Is for a PRD and one Is a regular subdivision. He explained this property Is a very narrow piece of property. The property has about 17.8 dry bulldable acres and he Is proposing 8 lots. JOE WHITNEY 780 Old Crystal Bay SubdlvlsIon Rd #360 O The Commission discussed the layout of the lots and the easement through the property. It was noted that not all the lots would meet the two acre minimum lot area requirement after subtracting for roads.. The Planning s Commission Indicated they were not In favor of creating a lot which will not meet the minimum requirements, and that with a PRD there are no lot lines as such. Mr. Whitney stated there already had been some soli boring tests done on the property. minutes Ml 1978 - PAGE 9 The Zoning Administrator explained that Ms. Buesgens needs a bridge to go over the wetlands so she will have access to the lake. Hurr commented there could be pro­ blems with footings and suggested going around the wet­ lands • BETTY BUESGENS 3067 Farview Ln. Wetlands Variance #359 The Zoning Administrator explained there Is an existing house on the property which is less than 75 ft. from the lakeshore. The new house would meet the required lake- shore setback and the 26 ft. setback from the swamp. At 11:52 p.m. Hannah moved, Hassel seconded, a motion to adjourn. N. D. MC DONALD 1225 Shoreline Dr. Variance #361 ji Motion, Ayes (6), Na (0). Motion passed.