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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC minutes/10/27/97 - lk access/stubbs bay MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 Kelley said Gappa's arguments are correct. The newer roads are platted, but it is understood they will be private when developed. Kelley said the distinction is clearly made today but has not always been in the past. Jabbour said he would like to be sure that the Council is not acting on an item-by-item basis. He said he understands that Gaffron is thoroughly aware of the situation. Jabbour said he would like to change the classification and tie up any loose ends involved. Gappa reported that there was only three cases of similar roads, Casco Cove, which has recently been determined for public maintenance, Shore Hills Drive, and Dakota Avenue. Shore Hills Drive is a very short street and still unpaved. Gappa said he reviewed all of the sewered areas and hot spots and found all of the other roads to be public. Jabbour acknowledged Gappa's comments but noted the rural area is being changed in this case. Gaffron indicated that by adding the area to the MUSA, it became urban. Jabbour moved, Kelley seconded, to approve the public maintenance of Dakota Avenue. Vote: Ayes 4,Nays 0. (#13) STUBBS BAY PUBLIC LAKE ACCESS Jabbour noted that the City Attorney just received the information regarding this issue. He asked that Barrett be contacted earlier in the process in the future. 22 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 Gappa reviewed the background of the Stubbs Bay public lake access. He noted how the access has been used the past 20 years. Rock was hauled in for use by the City with a seasonal dock. Gappa reported that the 30' wide right-of-way was platted as Oak Street and showed where it is located and the location of the Olsen property, which is two separate tax parcels. Access has been over a portion of Lot 48 of the Olsen property. The Olsen's purchased the property in November of 1996. The previous owner never brought forward the issue of use. The dock was moved this summer onto the area surveyed as the City's access as requested by the Olsen's. Issues of concern include the City's parcel dropping off quickly in topography, containing wetlands which are different to traverse. He noted the Olsen property is gradual in its slope and determined by the public at some point to be a better access point. Gappa said to access the City dock, the public must cross over the Olsen property . Gappa explained how the dock is installed. Jabbour questioned whether there is room to get to the lake access on the City property. Goetten noted the problem with travel on the access during the winter months. Gappa confirmed that there is alot of snowmobile traffic and difficulty in enforcing the use of the City property rather than that of the Olsen's. Gappa said it is problematic getting to the City access with the steep bank. Gappa suggested the City consider acquiring the land owned by the Olsen's for access or make improvements to the City property to make it more desirable to use. 23 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL _ MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 ;_ ,^, !,`r �, '� ' � � . Jabbour said the City and general public have used the land owned by the Olsen's for many years, noting it is used for parking, an occasional boat launch, and exercising of animals. Jabbour received confirmation from Mrs. Olsen that she does not want the City using her property any longer and is planning on barricading it. Jabbour asked Barrett what the City's legal position is regarding the access. Barrett said the Minnesota law allows for the ownership of the land to be that of the City's as it has been openly used and maintained by the City for more than 6 years. Barrett noted the improvements are obvious to the eye when viewing it. He suggested the Olsen's may have recourse with their title insurance company for the loss of the property and cost of the survey. Barrett said the City does not have fee title but does have a road easement. Gappa said the Olsen's are objecting to this opinion. Jabbour said, assuming the City has ownership of use, is the City interested in maintaining it. If so, what should be equitably decided regarding the Olsen's. If it is determined that it is not essential for the City to maintain the access, how can the City return the property to the Olsen's if they now have the right to the property. Banett said a formal vacation would have to occur to return the property to the Olsen's. Jabbour said that would include a public hearing. He questioned whether the DNR would have to be notified. Gaffron said any change to a piece of right-of-way along the 24 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL � MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 �t ,�� /': , - lakeshore requires contact with the DNR. Jabbour noted that all parties concerned have an interest in solving this issue as soon as possible. Lisa Olsen, 3580 Bayside Road, referenced her letter, which includes information on the property and the outcome from the meeting she attended with the Park Commission. Olsen questioned whether the Council feels the information is in contrast with what Gappa has in his report. She distributed a photo of the property. She noted the dock was placed on City property this summer. Olsen said the City property could be usable if the weeds were contained and would provide incentive for those to use it who wish to. In response to Barrett's comments regarding Minnesota law, Olsen noted that it is common knowledge that the gravel was added in the last five years. Since the gravel was added, traffic has accelerated and caused the slope in the bank. Olsen said she is unaware of where the dock has been located over the last 20 years but feels it was placed arbitrarily. Gappa noted the property was surveyed and staked this summer. Olsen questioned the language of seasonal use between the City property and Olsen property. Olsen said it was her goal to make the property more residential in nature with plantings. Jabbour said it would be possible to document the use of the access back to the beginning of aerial photography. He indicated he has personally used the property himself to gain access. Kelley said he has used the property since 1979 noting the dock 25 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 � ,i; r. is usually located to the left of the trail. Jabbour felt confident the City will be able to show use over the past six years. Jabbour said he would like to solve the issue without having to involve other agencies. Susan Wilson said the Park Commission is in favor of maintaining the access as the community does use it. She noted the access has been an amenity to the community but she would not like it located on the Olsen property. It was questioned whether access can be totally provided from the existing City property and whether the portion used by the City and owned by the Olsen's can be vacated. Goetten indicated if it is the desire of the Council taking the facts presented by Barrett to continue the use of the property, she would like to be fair to the Olsen's and reach some agreement. She noted the Olsen's understood the property was theirs when it was purchased. Kelley asked Olsen if the title search revealed the use by the public. Olsen said it did not. Kelley said he felt Olsen would have recourse with the title company. Olsen said she does not believe the ownership by the City is established on that parcel. Barrett said if the City uses the property and comes onto her portion of the property, that would be the claim for ownership. He said it appears that the property has been dedicated. Olsen said she then questions the facts. 26 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 Jabbour asked what it would take to establish the facts for Olsen to be satisfied with ownership by the City. He encouraged Olsen to consider the facts and protect the rest of her property. Jabbour noted he would personally be furious if he lost some of his land, but indicated that the City has their hands somewhat tied as the use has established the City's right to the property. He voiced concern with involvement by the DNR and a possible request for a designated trail resulting in further loss. Kelley asked if Olsen would like to have further time to review the information. Olsen said she would like to further discuss the matter. Barrett said he would be happy to participate. Jabbour reviewed Olsen's options: 1) to challenge the City b court action to retrieve the property, noting the City can document its use; 2) note the piece of land removed from her total land and be reimbursed by the title insurance and buffer the remaining property. Jabbour said the portion lost is about 5-6' but a major portion remains and should be protected. Jabbour and Kelley agreed that the Olsen's should pursue recourse from their title insurance company. Jabbour asked Gaffron to become involved in the issue and determining what has occurred. He asked Gaffron to review aerial photographs. Kelley reported there is also an issue of liability noting the possibility of problems with the ditch. Kelley said the issue may take time to resolve. He noted changes have occurred on the property and could create problems for snowmobiling this winter with 27 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 the stakes, tree branches, etc. Olsen noted that concern for liability is what brought the issue to this point. Flint said if the property is public, the issue of liability still exists. Kelley agreed but noted that the Olsen's could become tied up in the issue as well. Flint noted the importance of distinguishing the property to eliminate further encroachment. He suggested the use of posts and plantings. Jabbour said the issue will be revisited at the next Council meeting. Meanwhile, Olsen will meet with Gappa, Gaffron, and Moorse to review the information. Jabbour asked whether fencing was an issue for Mrs. Olsen. He asked Gaffron to clarify what can be done in the lakeshore. Gaffron said no fence can be placed in the 0-75'. He indicated that this information has not been explained to Olsen until this time. A 3-1/2' high fence is allowed outside the 0-75'; no fence or starage can occur in the 0-75' setback. Olsen received clarification on the ordinance regarding where fences can be located, the height, and the problem with overlapping zones. Olsen indicated that they have repaired a fence at the same height as existing with removal of one section that was located within the 75' setback. Olsen questioned whether it would be best to wait for further action until the City takes a formal position regarding the access property. Barrett said the property is a City road. Jabbour said the information relayed to Olsen is the City's formal position. Jabbour 2s . . � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1997 asked Olsen said she would prefer the Council vote on the matter. Olsen said she would like to take the time to evaluate the information before the Council takes a formal vote. Jabbour informed her the Council will reverse their decision if the review determines the findings to be other than what has been noted. Kelley asked Olsen to review dock locations with Staff. (#14) BURNING PERMITS - STAFF REPORT - ORDINANCE AMENDMENT Gappa reported the Council reviewed the issue of burning in August. Staff has concluded that the existing burning policy should be confirmed regarding the size of fires allowed; namely recreational fires of logs and charcoal3' in width, and log fires of piles 4' wide, 4' high, and 8' long. Staff believes the size of fires as stated is appropriate to the density in Orono. Larger fires would be problematic. Gappa noted the brush disposal site provided this summer was well received. Gappa indicated that the permits are currently for 30 day time periods and renewable. Staff proposes annual permits requiring inspection of site, informing the police department when a fire will be lit, and reinspection if a new permit is requested. No changes in fire size with the density of development. He feels the larger areas will result in being further subdivided and should adhere to same regulations. Gappa noted that fires must be 50' from any building. He indicated that the permits can be revoked. 29