HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-12-2020 Council Minutes MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
ROLL CALL
The Orono City Council met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Mayor
Dennis Walsh, City Council Members Richard Crosby, III, Matt Johnson, and Victoria Seals; City
Council Member Aaron Printup was absent. Representing Staff were City Attorney Soren Mattick,
Public Works Director/City Engineer Adam Edwards, Community Development Director Jeremy
Barnhart,City Engineer Laura Oakden, and City Administrator Dustin Rief.
Mayor Walsh called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
CONSENT AGENDA
1. CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 28,2020
2. COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 28,2020
3. CLAIMS/BILLS
4. REDUCE DEBT LEVY REQUIREMENT SERIES 2014A
5. REDUCE DEBT LEVY REQUIREMENT SERIES 2016A
6. APPROVAL OF RENTAL LICENSE
7. HENNEPIN COUNTY 2021 CONTRACT AMENDMENT FOR RESIDENTIAL
RECYCLING GRANT—RESOLUTION
8. CITY HALL RECEPTION AREA COVID-19 REMODEL
9. APPROVAL TO ACCEPT DONATIONS FOR BIG ISLAND PARK
Mayor Walsh thanked the Goodman Foundation for donating $10,000 towards the Big Island
Foundation.
10. LA20-000058—MARK & MARY ENGER, 2697 CASCO POINT ROAD, VARIANCE
—RESOLUTION
11. LA20-000062—BOB MOLSTAD WITH SATHRE-BERGQUIST O/B/O ELLEN
FORCIER, 4780 NORTH ARM DRIVE WEST, VARIANCES —RESOLUTION
12. 2520 CASCO POINT ROAD, RON AND HOLLY ROCCA, ACCESSORY BUILDING
REMOVAL AGREEMENT
Page 1of24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Crosby moved,Johnson seconded, to approve the Consent Agenda as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
Walsh moved, Crosby seconded, to terminate the employment of Roger Peitso effective
immediately, as the City is looking to outsource more. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Tiffane Ferrer, 980 Heritage Lane, thanked the Council and the Mayor for supporting the Police
Department and said she is saddened and disgusted that some people have chosen to make this
political. She stated the Police and Fire Departments that serve this great City are not elected
officials, nor are they a political body. She said the Thin Blue Line Flag has been around for
over 100 years and should not be called the "Blue Lives Matter" Flag;that is solely used to sway
a political agenda. The fact that people are claiming to support the great men and women of the
police force but are also asking for that very flag that shows support to be taken down is pure
hypocrisy. As a community, they should all be able to come together to support police, fire and
first responders without any hidden political agendas. She prays that those opposing the Thin
Blue Line Flag never need their services, but if they do, rest assured the very people they are
refusing to support will indeed support them. She said today the lunacy needs to end and she is
willing—along with other community members present tonight—to buy the City a flagpole so
they can properly and proudly display their support for Orono's first responders. She asked the
Council to please not back down to minority naysayers, asking what will they come for next,the
American Flag. Finally, Ms. Ferrer said shame on you for all the people who have used this flag
to be divisive with their words, such as "racist" or"white supremacy." Their police officers
come in all colors.
Claire Berrett, 1085 Brown Road South, shared that the Thin Blue Line Flag and the symbol is
the thin line between civil society and chaos, a symbol that has been around for over a century
and is apolitical in nature and supports Law Enforcement and Peacekeeping Forces. There may
be others who try to ascribe meanings to that symbol, however, no civic body or human can
prevent other citizens from ascribing different meanings for themselves, but there is no
responsibility to accommodate everyone in a City or anywhere. She said if other perspectives
demand the absence of a flag that is apolitical, that is a political action in and of itself, which
would be electionary. She agrees with Ms. Ferrer when she asked where does this end? Ms.
Berrett has heard comments on social media that there are some that think the United States Flag,
the beautiful symbol of this country is racist and divisive, so should they take that down? Of
course not;Police Officers are of all races and all political persuasions. The Thin Blue Line flag
shows support for all of them. Ms. Berrett strongly encourages the City Council to stand their
ground and keep it flying.
Kendall Qualls, 755 Lilium Trail, Medina, stated he is a candidate running for U.S. Congress in
the 3rd District and asked to voice his support not just for the Police Officers but for the civility
Page 2 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
and coming together as Americans that everyone wants. He noted they are waiting to see who is
going to do it first, and said the Council has the opportunity to do that...to rise above the
rhetoric, because the best movements in the country have never come from the top down, rather
they've come from the bottom up. He wants to make clear that the Police Officers that serve us
wear the patch of the City of Orono and their paychecks are from the City of Orono —he said
"they are part of us." He would like everyone to rise above this issue of divisiveness, because at
the end of the day when they need protection, first responders are there without qualifiers such as
the skin color of the victims or the skin color of anyone who needs help. Mr. Qualls noted he has
never seen our Country so divided and to those that voice opposition to this flag, he would like to
appeal to their better sense and better heart of compassion and bringing the Country together.
Just because the U.S. has a President that supports the Police, doesn't mean people have to do the
exact opposite of a President that they do not support. He said this is a time to bring the Country
together and not bring politics into it, noting these men and women are out there not because of
their salaries but because they have a drive to serve and he believes the City needs to support
them in a big way. Mr. Qualls said this is the perfect time to send the signal, not just to support
the flag but everything else that is embodied in the flag is that"we are not perfect, but we strive
to get better every single time."
Richie Anderson, 3205 Crystal Bay Road, wants the Council to know they are up there, taking
the shots,taking the phone calls and he wants them to know that "we are all behind you, we back
you in your decisions" and noted they have tough calls all the time. He stated the guys out in the
front taking arrows, especially the Council, get arrows slung at them because they are there and
he wants them to know that "we got your back all the time."
13. ANDREW MYERS HOUSE DISTRICT 33B
Andrew Myers, a Minnetonka Beach resident for approximately 10 years, served on many
Commissions, and thanked the City Council for stepping up and serving the City. He noted he
was a Councilmember, small business owner and is running for Minnesota House in District
33B. He said he is running to try and make a difference, and as Mr. Qualls said, everyone is not
perfect here but are striving to do better and from what he has seen, they can all do better. He is
proud to say he is endorsed by the Police and Peace Officers Association and stated meeting with
them and having open lines of communication is very important to him. He left some
information with Mr. Rief for the Councilmembers.
PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR/CITY ENGINEER REPORT
14. HOLIDAY TREE LIGHTING EVENT REQUEST FOR FUNDS
City Engineer Adam Edwards noted a request from the Tree Lighting Committee for public funds to be
expended for a Holiday Tree Lighting Event. This year the Committee is looking to expand the offerings
to include a reindeer petting zoo and a fireworks display. In particular the fireworks display is rather
Page 3 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
costly and will come with additional requirements that the City will need to take if the Council approves
the action.
Mayor Walsh noted Seals is also on the Committee for this fabulous event that has been tremendously
successful in the community.
Seals noted this year has been a little funky and most will be cooped up this winter, so they thought they
would double down and find a way to be outside that is an energetic, fun event to get people together.
The group came up with ideas to expand including marshmallow roasting through North Mallow in Long
Lake, and noted they are donating everything for that part of the event. She agreed the biggest cost is the
fireworks display and said she thinks $10,000 is pretty cheap as it is the same group that does the
Lafayette fireworks and she would've thought it would be$30,000. She said they are still working to see
if fireworks can be sponsored by a local company, but also know they must plan. The Committee wants
to secure the funds so they can lock some of these things down. She noted the team has done a nice job to
make sure it is COVID-friendly, it is outside, and they won't break any rules or get the City in trouble.
Mayor Walsh noted they are putting$50,000 in the Parks Fund in 2021, which is upping the game, and he
asked if the money would come out of that fund.
Edwards answered in the packet under No 4)Funding, a portion will come out of Park, Golf Course and
Police Operating Budgets and the rest from Contingency Funds. He noted in future years, it could be
budgeted into the Parks Fund and they could perhaps put a budget line in for events of this type.
Mayor Walsh asked how much is in the Contingency Fund.
Edwards replied the Contingency Fund has $30,000 in it and they have used approximately$100 out of
the fund.
Johnson noted the Big Island Fund sealed their commitment with this last donation.
Mayor Walsh noted this would be the worst-case scenario in using the Contingency Fund, but the goal is
to get a sponsor.
Seals stated that is the goal, but time is not on their side. She said they talked about doing an Octoberfest
and they would not do that in the next year, instead they would double down on Christmas.
Seals moved,Johnson seconded,to authorize the use of public funds to support the Holiday Tree
Lighting Event. VOTE: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
PLANNING DEPARTMENT REPORT
15. LA20-000056—KUHL DESIGN BUILD, 3249 CASCO CIRCLE, VARIANCE
Dan Murphy, Kuhl Design Build, 1515 5th Street South, Hopkins, Applicant, was present.
Staff presented a summary packet of information. Planning Staff finds the practical difficulties
are not met and recommended denial and that the Planning Commission voted denial 3-2
Page 4 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
(Ressler and Gettman). Council should review the application and determine if practical
difficulties are met for the variance.
Dan Murphy of Kuhl Design Build acknowledged a 3-2 vote in denial and noted the neighbors
are very much in support of this project;the issue they are running into is that it is a very old
structure and is non-compliant as it is. He stated they could rebuild it there, but to rebuild the
roofline - because it is very flat, old and beaten up—to meet the building code they would have
to get another variance anyway. He clarified no matter what they do,they would need to get a
variance on the roof because it is such a flat pitch and in looking at the packet, the Council can
see there is only a very small area of the roof that actually requires the variance; most of the
structure is fine. Because they are changing the pitch, a tiny sliver of it comes into play when
dealing with the setback issue. He noted the drainage issue came up at the Planning Commission
and the issue was addressed, they showed it to the neighbors and discussed it with them, and
neighbors are completely on board because it will look a lot better in the neighborhood.
Mayor Walsh appreciates the neighbors not having a problem with the building, but asked if it
meets the practical difficulty standard for a non-conforming structure. He can't think of an
example where they've allowed someone to expand to a non-conforming on a setback. He hasn't
seen what the practical difficulty is yet that would require the need to do the project.
Mr. Murphy replied the practical difficulty is that if they do anything, they must build it to code
and if they build it to code they need a variance.
Mayor Walsh stated they are then creating their own practical difficulty.
Mr. Murphy stated there isn't another option with what they need to do with the structure right
now because the roof is going to give way soon, so it's either let it continue to dilapidate or build
the structure back up so it looks good in the neighborhood and can stay, otherwise it is just kind
of an eyesore. If they could put a new roof on it without having to get a variance, they would.
Mayor Walsh said they could put a new roof on the exact way it is.
Mr. Murphy said if they start taking the beams off to give the support that is necessary by code,
then they can't.
Mayor Walsh stated they can build like-and-kind without having to go up further in a non-
conforming use, and that is the issue.
Mr. Murphy asked can they supersede code.
Mayor Walsh noted they are not superseding code,they are getting like-and-kind and added they
could tear the whole house down and build like-and-kind;the same height, the same footprint.
Mr. Murphy asked doesn't it have to be built to code.
Page 5 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Mayor Walsh replied, generally speaking it has to be built to code but they can still build like-
and-kind from a height. If they are in a non-conforming use and are two feet and supposed to be
seven-and-a-half feet and tear down to the studs,they can build it back right where it was.
Mr. Murphy replied they are building it right where it was; however,they are just changing the
roof pitch.
Johnson noted that is where the problem lies;the minute they make a roof go higher than the
existing, that is where the Council hasn't been allowing it.
Crosby asked if the current roof pitch would not be to code.
Mr. Murphy answered the current roof structure,the framing and the span of the roof trusses is
not to code.
Crosby responded, like Mayor Walsh said, if they build it to like-and-kind, they are not raising
the roof or creating their own difficulties.
Johnson said that is right, the Applicant can do that.
Mr. Murphy said he could supersede code if he builds to the Planning Commission.
Johnson noted he is confusing code with the basic umbrella of space that they have. He said
what happens underneath the parameters of the existing structure is Mr. Murphy's job as a
builder to make sure it meets code.
Mr. Murphy asked if the walls stay the same height, for example the walls are eight feet tall, his
building code tells him that the span of the rafters must a 2x10 or a 2x12 rafter. He said
currently they are either 2x4 or 2x6 in the structure, so now he is increasing the height of that
roof.
Johnson said they would have to drop the walls or make it a flat roof and noted the Council
doesn't get into the business of designing structures for people, but clarified that Mr. Murphy has
the envelope to utilize and underneath that it is Mr. Murphy's job to make sure it meets code, and
must come up with his own design to fit these parameters.
Mr. Murphy asked, doesn't that create a practical difficulty because the code compliance he must
follow by a licensed contractor is a practical difficulty in this, as now he must alter the structure
in a way that would make it less effective than it is now. He noted he would have to drop the
side walls to get the structure roofline to line up and have the correct pitch and width of rafters.
He said now he is in a catch-22 because it would be even shorter than it was and less effective on
the inside as a storage unit or whatever it will be. He stated he is not here to argue but he is
trying to show the Council where his catch-22 comes in because he knows exactly what they are
talking about but now they have to go backwards.
Page 6 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Johnson replied yes, potentially that is what it means.
Mr. Murphy asked if that is a practical difficulty.
Johnson said not in his definition.
Mayor Walsh again said they cannot create their own practical difficulty by rebuilding.
Mr. Murphy said he is not creating the code, so isn't that code creating the practical difficulty for
him? He noted it is a very old structure and the roof is falling in.
Mayor Walsh said he guesses he could see the argument that if they had to tear the roof off
because it is falling apart and instead of 2x4's they had to use 2x12's, then use 2x12's and if that
makes it go up 3, 4, or 5 inches, he thinks that would be a practical difficulty, but not going way
up like what is shown in the packet/onscreen.
Mr. Murphy responded he would still have to come in for a variance at that point.
Johnson said yes.
Mayor Walsh said that would be a practical difficulty if the Applicant said they were going to
replace the roof as-is, but code requires raising it up 4 inches because they must use 2x12's
instead of 2x4's.
Mr. Murphy stated when they started the design process and he found out he would need a
variance because it is a non-compliant roof, he noted there is a little part that was brought into
question because if they did anything on there he would have to get a variance for it. At that
point,the Applicant said they should match the architecture of the house, then showed it to the
neighbors who were much more supportive of that than the original design.
Mayor Walsh said they are not in the design business but are trying to tell Mr. Murphy what he
can get and what a practical difficulty is. He said he would not have a problem granting the
variance for the additional space needed for the lumber to bring the roof to code.
Johnson asked if they would be redoing the side walls.
Mr. Murphy said no, they aren't changing the side walls but now they will have to.
Mayor Walsh said if the trusses need to be 4 inches higher for code, that is a practical difficulty
and the Applicant can have that, but anything beyond that is not a practical difficulty.
Walsh moved, Seals seconded, to table LA20-000056, 3249 Casco Circle, Variance. VOTE:
Ayes 4,Nays 0.
Page 7 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
16. LA20-000057—MICHAEL GALLUS CONSTRUCTION, INC., 1985 FAGERNESS
POINT ROAD, VARIANCES
Matt Briggs, Applicant, was present.
Staff presented a summary packet of information. The Planning Commission could not support
the Application as proposed, however with amendments, which included removal of an
encroachment into the average lakeshore setback, it might make for a stronger variance
application. The Commission found that the practical difficulties were not met with a 5-0 vote to
deny. Staff recommended denial for the original application of the 4 proposed variances and
Council should review the amended plans, determine if practical difficulties are met and give
direction to Staff for a resolution.
Mayor Walsh stated he was at the Planning Commission meeting, and said the neighboring
properties had existing grandfathered conditions and this application is a new property that was
built. Essentially, the Applicant wants to back themselves in to old, grandfathered-in conditions.
Ms. Oakden replied many of the homes on Fagerness are original and dealing with existing
conditions. She noted the Applicant's home was built in 2009 and worked to meet all the City
setback standards. Now with different scenarios and reasoning they are asking for this addition
to their house.
Johnson noted there was a corrected average lakeshore setback in the packet and asked if there is
any dispute about that.
Ms. Oakden said there was some clarification in the beginning of the submittal process but the
survey that went to the Planning Commission and the survey in front of the Council have the
corrected/accurate average lakeshore setback shown. She noted they reduced the addition by two
feet and cut out a corner of the proposed addition to meet the average lakeshore setback line.
Matt Briggs, 1985 Fagerness Point Road, gave background noting he built the home in 2009 and
at that time the garage was within feet of Fagerness Point. They have always want to follow the
rules and built the house accordingly; what is important to understand is that the neighborhood is
designed and all home have garages within the setback. Mr. Briggs came to the Council
meeting, listened to the review and it was all thoughtful and spent a lot of time going back and
virtually eliminated 3 of the 4 variances down to a single variance that has to do with the road
setback. Some improvements they have made to the property include the watershed and grading;
he believes the design of the home is actually more consistent with the neighborhood with the
current design of the house. Their house is very vertical and feels very tall and this addition
would soften it up. They got the design idea from 1973 Fagerness Point Road, which was
recently completed. He has done some research on practical difficulty and noted he is a business
owner and everyday he deals with problems and finds solutions. The problem in this case was
they had 4 variances and they have whittled it down to a single variance, which is a setback that
is consistent with the neighborhood. Not granting the setback is arbitrary and capricious because
Page 8 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
they can show precedent that this has been approved with not only existing but also new
remodels. He stated the reason for the improvement is for his family: when they built the home
they had two children and now have three; they also take care of his wife's father who is a
disabled Vietnam Veteran and when he comes to the Cities to receive treatment, he is unable to
get to the guestroom on the upper floors. The bedroom they are building will allow for wider
doors, have a new bathroom for his father-in-law and it is important to the family to meet those
requirements. Mr. Briggs understands variances are tough but in this case he feels it is consistent
with the neighborhood and that they have done a lot to solve the questions and concerns the
Council has had. In closing, he stated the entire neighborhood supports them, noting three letters
of recommendation including the direct neighbor who would be most impacted by this. He said
it is truly a practical difficulty for the family not to have his father-in-law stay with them.
Mayor Walsh appreciates all the neighbors input, but like the previous application, there is no
practical difficulty; it is a new property that was built that met everything and the rest of the
houses are grandfathered in. He noted not having Mr. Brigg's father-in-law stay with them is not
a practical difficulty for building a property and it gets back to the rule again. The homeowner
may perceive it as arbitrary and capricious but it is a real rule and unless there is a real practical
difficulty there aren't many places to go with this.
Michael Miller, 1987 Fagerness Point Road, the adjacent homeowner noted he has been there 22
years and in looking at the corner of where Mr. Miller's existing house and garage are, he is
about 4 feet from the road, but someone had foresight early on and he owns the road now. The
house that was there before Mr. Briggs tore it down to build new had the garage exactly even
with Mr. Miller's—4 feet from the road. He noted he is one of the grandfathered properties, but
it seems that it serves no purpose and will not affect anything regarding Mr. Miller or his home,
or the immediate neighbor on the other side, who has also said it's going to be a great addition to
the community.
Mayor Walsh appreciates the comments but noted that is not the issue. He asked, does the
Council just get rid of the setback rule.
Mr. Miller understands that and understands the rule but noted this seems to be an extraordinarily
different neighborhood and there is another additional garage about 6 feet back further down.
Crosby asked if there have been any rebuilds in the last 10 years which the Council has allowed.
Ms. Oakden replied there has been a lot of reconstruction of existing structures where the
Council has granted variances in small and encroached ways, and noted 1973 Fagerness which
was referenced in the design was an existing condition of an attached garage where it was moved
farther back from the road by 4 feet but were allowed to go wider by 6 inches to accommodate a
new footprint of a garage.
Mr. Briggs stated they should take it farther to find out if any of those variances have been
granted. He said there is a garage being built right now on Casco that is closer to the road.
Page 9 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Mayor Walsh said perhaps they should table because there is no practical difficulty for the
Applicant to move halfway into the setback.
Mr. Briggs feels there is a covenant of good faith in dealing with these things, and he deals with
this at work all the time; he has taken 4 variances down to 1 and he believes a single variance has
been granted recently.
Mayor Walsh stated they should find it.
Crosby suggested tabling, they will see if they can find the variance, and noted he is on the fence
with this and there is a possibility of a practical difficulty with Mr. Brigg's family member. He
said they should find more backing evidence to give the Applicant some more ammo.
Crosby moved,Johnson seconded,to table LA20-000057, 1985 Fagerness Point Road,
Variances. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
17. LA20-000052—MARK RAUSCH O/B/O UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS AND
DAVID WEEKLEY HOMES, NW CORNER OF WILLOW DRIVE AND WAYZATA
BLVD., CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW
Aziz Saddiqui, O/B/O David Weekley Homes, Applicant, was present.
Staff presented summary packet of information. The main issue the Planning Commission had
with this project was nine-or-so units encroached into the setbacks. The Applicant heard the
comments from the Planning Commission and adjusted the plan, relocating the tall lot to the
interior of the project and redesigned the project. Mr. Barnhart said Staff is looking for some
preliminary comment; this project will likely be developed as a Residential Planned Unit
Development (RPUD) zoning district, will require a public hearing from a zone change and a
Comprehensive Plan Amendment because they are lower density than what is prescribed by the
Comprehensive Plan.
Mayor Walsh asked regarding the Met Council, they obviously want to see lower density on this
as it relates to the project across the street, but the issue he read was by lowering this they still
stay above their number of 3 units/acre for density. He said it would force them to raise numbers
elsewhere and is it possible that they would not need to raise numbers elsewhere because they
are above the "3" number.
Barnhart replied when looking at a Comprehensive Plan Amendment for a project like this, they
must establish a guide; he noted Orono's land-use designations are: low-density is .5 —2
units/acre and goes up to 3-10 units/acre, 10-20 units/acre, and 20-25 units/acre. They like to fit
a development within those parameters. The Met Council looks at the lowest number in the
range that the City prescribes—the high-density residential is 20-25 units/acre and the Met
Council calculates a potential of 20 units, even though some projects may be higher. Other areas
Page 10 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
where the density range is 10-20 units/acre, for density or growth calculations, the Met Council
looks at the lowest number of 10 units/acre. Barnhart noted in this situation, it is guided for 20
units and they are looking to reduce the density and must find a range that would fit. If they
chose the 10-20 units/acre, Met Council would use the 10 units/acre and need to do some
adjustments on the growth projections, and they are 2 units away from getting to that 10
units/acre. If the Council would allow 37 units on this property, they would not need to make
any adjustments to add more areas for high density, nor would they have to increase higher
density elsewhere. He said that is most likely the easiest way to avoid extending density in areas
where they do not want to have density.
Mayor Walsh noted Stone Bay is 6 units/acres and asked if that is correct.
Barnhart said looking at Stone Bay in the twin-homes and townhomes area, yes it is about 6
units/acre.
Mayor Walsh said the answer to the question, then, is no the Council cannot drop it down to
what they want without having to go expand other areas.
Barnhart noted if the Council wanted it down to 6 units/acre, the range is 3-10 units/acre so they
will calculate 3 units/acre, and will have to find some more acres to increase density or add
Metropolitan Urban Service Areas (MUSA) to other areas.
Johnson said the guidance is between 3 and 10, and they use the lowest end of the guidance, so if
the development works out to be a 10 units/acre and it is completed, he asked how that affects
the whole matrix.
Barnhart said the Met Council doesn't go back and calculate how it actually developed, for
example, 690 Brown Road project in the MUSA, guided for the lowest density (lower than
prescribed), the prescribed was 13 but the actual development was 7 units. He again noted the
Met Council does not go back and look to see what was actually developed, they look at what it
was guided for.
Johnson said there is a ratio of what is developed and when it is completed it helps the ratio.
Barnhart noted once it is developed, it is no longer opportunity for growth so it is out of the
City's equations. Regarding the areas in Orono's Comprehensive Plan that show potential for
growth and all the acres, he noted those properties have not been developed.
Mayor Walsh asked if the Council guides it from 3-10 units/acre and it ends up being 6
units/acre when it is built,the City still only gets credit for 3 units/acre.
Barnhart answered yes, and they do not count it the next time the City does an update, it is just
off the books in the sense of opportunities for growth.
Seals said that is goofy.
Page 11 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Johnson said that is horse manure.
Mayor Walsh stated that is a good question before they even have the discussion.
Seals asked why they wouldn't get credit for what they did versus, for example, zoning swamp
land for 10-15 units/acre and walk away and never build on it because they cannot.
Mayor Walsh suggested creating a new zoning of 6-10 units/acre.
Barnhart stated the Council can do that.
Mayor Walsh stated then it would be guided for 6 units/acre.
Barnhart noted they would need to create a new land-use category of 6-10 units/acre and then
create a new zoning district.
Johnson said they should've been doing this a while ago.
Barnhart stated he did not run a calculation for 6 units/acre, but at 3 units/acre, the City would
have to create more opportunity.
Johnson noted the next category is 10-20 units/acre, so if they are at 10 it's the same as being at
20, and asked if that is correct.
Barnhart replied no, if they are in the 3-10 units/acre group, it calculates as 3 units/acre, if they
are in the 10-20 group, it calculates as 10 units/acre.
Mayor Walsh said the Council guides it for the Met Council and decides what bucket it falls in.
That is why he suggested creating a new 6-10 units/acre grouping.
Johnson stated this is the type of housing they want at that location.
Mayor Walsh said yes. He asked Barnhart what the location is currently per acre.
Barnhart answered it is at 9.5 units/acre.
Mayor Walsh said technically they are almost at 10, so if they can get one more unit in.
Barnhart stated they would need two more units.
Mayor Walsh noted two more units would be 6 across the street and 10 at this location so it is a
bit denser, but makes the City not have to go somewhere else to change density. He noted they
need to decide if they want 10 units/acre to begin with or if they only want 6 units/acre.
Barnhart clarified 3.69 acres at 6 units/acre; the Met Council expects 18 units or so for this
property. At 10 units/acre for the 3.69 acres, they'd be looking at 36.9 units. He noted that is the
difference, they need to find the 18 spaces or lots somewhere else. This is the reason he suggests
rather than opening that potential can of worms, the City allows for 2 more units here, which
may likely manifest itself in adjusted setbacks internally and externally, but allows the City to do
Page 12 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
that without introducing density elsewhere. He pointed out that the Comprehensive Plan really
looked at density throughout the community and tried to maintain it in certain areas and this is
one of those areas.
Johnson said they could take the backside of the land, donate it to the City for the pond, reduce
the acres they have and increase their units per acre.
After a short discussion on density, Seals and Crosby noted they do not want to add more density
anywhere else.
Mayor Walsh noted there are some proposals in front of the Council talking about re-zoning the
office space land to small apartments or whatever, and right now it is zero, but it would be more
than 3 units/acre most likely, so if they add that in, it might make up for bringing this project
down to 6 units/acres. However, he stated that is not in front of the Council right now.
Barnhart said he doesn't put a lot of stock in that until they come forward with an application,
noting they get "ideas" all the time.
Mayor Walsh noted they are currently at 9.5 units/acre and they need to get to 10 units/acre.
Johnson asked if the Applicant would like to come up and speak.
Aziz Saddiqui, 12900 White Water Drive, Minnetonka, noted he is responsible for the
acquisition development for David Weekley for the Midwest and the Western part of the County
and thanked the Council for their time. He said when the company came here, they were told it
was zoned for 20+units. He said they adjusted the numbers to meet some of the setback
requirements and when they presented the package in front of the Planning Commission, they
liked the product, idea and concept; however it created the issue of the setbacks. David Weekley
said that is fine, they can address the setbacks but it would significantly affect the units, so from
43 units, they are down to the 35 units they are discussing today. Mr. Saddiqui noted they are
meeting most of the setbacks that as a guideline they were told to meet. He stated there is room
to add 2 units, to the Council's point, and it may require very small variances to the North along
Kelley Road, but he believes they could achieve those 2 units they are discussing today. This
project is doable only if they have bare minimum of 35 units; if the company has to go any
lower, they would probably walk away from the project, as this is their bottom line number for
the economics to work. He said 37 units definitely helps, but if the City decides to go 6
units/acre it is something that the company cannot do.
Mayor Walsh stated they are not concerned about needing to develop property; the concern is
trying to meet the numbers that make sense from a density standpoint and if it works to the
company's benefit, that is great, but if it stays empty land, that is okay too.
Johnson asked the price range for the units.
Mr. Saddiqui answered it will be $360,000 to low $400,000's.
Page 13 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Mayor Walsh asked what Stone Bay's pricing is.
Crosby stated it is in that range.
Mayor Walsh said they don't want the company to move forward with more concept plans and
time and spending money without some feedback from the Council. He looks at it both ways, he
doesn't want to have to go add 7 more units somewhere to make the number work as they have
always said they'd rather have it across both Highway 12 in this area and it's not like they're
building a multi-story apartment complex.
Crosby asked what the density is on the North side.
Barnhart answered it is 6 for the townhome/twin-home area.
Mayor Walsh stated if they were to do this project, it would be 10 units/acre, so a little bit more
dense, but they still have walkways and greenery.
Johnson doesn't have a problem with 37 units, hitting the number and not having to go to the
well to try to find something else. He noted this conversation brings up the question on whether
they need to evaluate the buckets.
Seals and Crosby agreed.
Mayor Walsh agreed and said if they have the ability to manage and massage, they should do
that, but they may not know until someone is interested in a piece of land, but at least if that tool
is available, they should think about it. He noted they don't want to get a 6 units/acre and be
graded at 3 units/acre and only get credit for a 3.
Feedback from the Council to David Weekely Inc. is 37 units.
18. LA20-000060—CITY OF ORONO TEXT AMENDMENT RELATED TO
AMENDMENTS TO VARIANCES
Barnhart said this codifies the City's practice, noting what often happen is the Council will
approve a variance by resolution and that resolution will include drawings. Occasionally the
property owner will need to make adjustments during construction; if Staff has deemed those
minor they have taken it to the Council to approve those changes so the resolution has the final
drawings. This ordinance codifies that, allows Staff to do it and cleans up the books. In
situations where Staff thinks it is a major change, they will make it go through the process again:
public hearing, Planning Commission review process. Staff recommends approval.
Mayor Walsh said it seems to work fine and they are trying to make things simpler. If they are
minor adjustments, Council needs to put faith in their Staff that they know the difference
between minor and major adjustments and let them get stuff done.
Crosby said it seems like a smart policy.
Page 14 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Crosby moved, Seals seconded,to approve LA20-000060—City of Orono Text Amendment
Related to Amendments to Variances as drafted. VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
19. LA20-000047—CITY OF ORONO TEXT AMENDMENT RELATED TO BOAT
STORAGE
Barnhart said when he first started in Orono, the direction he received from the City Council was
there are quite a bit of rules and regulations and occasionally it will be necessary to review those,
re-open the book and take a look at it. He noted this is a good example; regulations are in place
that guide the storage of boats on residential property and noted he included a copy of the section
in the Code in the packet and it is a mess. There is an opportunity to re-examine what the goals
are as a Council and then Staff and the City Attorney can draft an ordinance that meets those
goals. Barnhart is looking for feedback from the Council on the 16 questions onscreen/in the
packet. He noted they can schedule the discussion for an upcoming work session and asked the
Council to look at the questions and start putting their questions and feedback together.
Mr. Richie Anderson said this was done not that many years ago and the previous ordinance was
for storage of a 23 foot boat and one of the former Councilmembers wanted to store a bigger boat
in his yard, so he came and made it a 30 foot boat. Mr. Anderson said a bunch of the things
listed on screen are irrelevant; he knows what the rules are because he sat here when the Council
went through it talking about 30 foot boats in people's yards, he thought it was kind of ridiculous
at that time. He said the City can't even enforce what they have right now, noting there are
many boats that are over 30 feet being stored right now. He again said this was just done and he
questions why it came up again at this time.
Mayor Walsh stated the reason it came up is because the City had a court case that said what
they have is not enforceable, so the prosecuting attorney said the City needs to fix their code
because it is inconsistent and unenforceable.
Mr. Anderson said one other part is that a property owner had an old wooden boat with a blue
tarp on it for approximately 10 years, then this rule went in to place that people cannot have a
derelict boat in their yard for 2 years. He noted some of the terminology was directly related to
that homeowner and he subsequently moved his boat.
Mayor Walsh said this is really trying to solve those issues and suggested a work session where
the Council can really talk through it.
Mr. Anderson asked if the City lost the court case.
Mayor Walsh replied in the affirmative.
City Attorney Mattick said when Barnhart started working on this and asked for some help, one
of the questions Mr. Mattick always asks instead of mandating something: is what they were
Page 15 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
trying to do in the first place still a valid premise for the law, rule or ordinance? The more they
noted unique nuances that seemed to read against something else, they got stuck in terms of what
they are trying to regulate. Are boats in a front yard still a big deal? They are not sure. Do they
care about the 23 feet or does it matter if the boat is on a trailer? He noted all of these things had
been built in and they didn't have the history on whether that was purposeful or if the City just
"stole" someone else's ordinance. He noted they are looking for direction.
Mayor Walsh said it might be nice to know what other lake cities have in their ordinance for boat
storage and then receive feedback from someone like Mr. Anderson who has been dealing with
boats his entire life.
Crosby added they should look at what is enforceable and what is not.
Johnson asked if he was notified of the court case and the findings of it.
Barnhart clarified it is not a court case, it was a complaint that Orono sent to the prosecuting
attorney and the prosecuting attorney declined it.
Johnson asked if the Council was made aware of the issue as it occurred.
Barnhart believes he gave an update several months ago but probably did not go into the details
of the case, but he updated the Council that they had an issue with boat storage regulation.
Mayor Walsh remembers something in writing on that update.
Attorney Mattick clarified that what a prosecutor typically does is to issue a Declination Letter
saying "something was referred to me for my review" and if they thought there was probable
cause such as the facts being present,they would swear out a criminal complaint. If the
prosecutor felt that the way the law is written they cannot proceed under this law, they issue a
decline letter and that is what happened in this situation.
Johnson asked for that to be sent to him.
Mr. Anderson asked Attorney Mattick regarding the details of the court case, could it be that the
person had three 30-foot boats behind a fence and it wasn't an enclosed building?
Attorney Mattick replied no, they are talking about a boat in a front yard.
The Council agreed to put this item on the agenda for an upcoming work session discussion.
20. LA20-000065—CITY OF ORONO TEXT AMENDMENT RELATED TO
DRY- BUILDABLE DEFINITION
Barnhart is looking for two actions tonight: approval of a summary ordinance and authorization
to publish the new subdivision code which is 39 pages. He noted it will be fairly expensive and
they get around that by publishing a summary ordinance and meet the publishing requirements
there. He noted the next item is a bit of carryover from last month when the Council approved
Page 16 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
the subdivision code; there is some discussion about where the 18% dry-buildable calculation
came from and Staff was directed to look into State statute and other regulations. Barnhart could
not find the source, so he is led to the conclusion that the City can establish whatever they want
in terms of a definition of dry-buildable, so if the Council doesn't want to include the 18%they
can remove it, or they can have a 22.5% slope, although that is a very specific number. He
suggested doing a round number of 30%which is similar to a bluff slope without being a bluff.
Johnson asked what money it saves doing the summary ordinance rather than publishing the full
39 pages.
Barnhart responded it is several hundred dollars because when they pass an ordinance they are
required to publish it and 39 pages published in the newspaper will be very expensive, probably
close to $1,500.
Johnson noted he is fine with the summary and said he did some research on the subject. He
thinks the engineering grade is a 3:1 ratio, which is not to exceed 33%; if the City wants it rooted
in something, this is the ordinary engineering maximum standard in grading. He said this
excludes defined bluffs and wetlands, so they are talking about dry-buildable for the calculation
and he suggests 33%.
Mayor Walsh said it will potentially add more dry-buildable to sites.
Johnson noted one workaround is if the City keeps it at 22%, they grade that as they do more
earth work to get it "flatter." If the City uses the 3:1 ratio,they can actually preserve some areas
from being re-graded to meet the standard.
Mayor Walsh asked what the downside is.
Barnhart replied they may see some areas that would have been excluded before will now be
included in the minimum. He remembers early in the development of the YMCA project at 135
Orono Road,the dry-buildable calculation was very critical because in creating a non-sewered
lot, the dry-buildable area needs to be contiguous. Therefore that 18%was critical in how the lot
lines were created. He noted they frankly don't have a huge number of vacant lots it would
apply to, so that is the downside and he doesn't know how big of a ramification that will be in
the long-term. He clarified the downside is in areas where previously they could fit 5 lots, they
may be able to fit 7 lots.
Mayor Walsh said that is not a downside to him.
Johnson noted the 18% is a 20-year-old rule that was an old septic requirement.
Johnson moved, Crosby seconded,to give Staff permission to publish the summary ordinance.
VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 0.
Johnson moved, Crosby seconded, to use the 3:1 or 33% ratio for dry-buildable. VOTE: Ayes 4,
Nays 0.
Page 17 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Barnhart said he will initiate a text amendment and there will be a public hearing to change that
to 33%. It will then go to the Planning Commission and will come to the City Council for final
approval.
MAYOR/COUNCIL REPORT
Johnson reported the Pee-Wee B Team in Hockey is in desperate need of a coach.
Crosby sends his heart out to his wife Patty on the one-year anniversary of her father's passing
and noted her mother also died in October so it is a very tough month.
Seals reported that intermediate schools are back open today and her children are excited to be
back in school as they miss their friends.
Mayor Walsh noted it is getting colder and the process of taking out the boats, docks and outdoor
furniture is beginning. He also noted there is a clean-up day in Orono on October 17, 2020 at the
Public Works facility and people can bring bikes, TV's and electronics.
Rief noted they are doing a prescription drug take-back on October 17, 2020 and October 24,
2020 at City Hall.
CITY ADMINISTRATOR REPORT
Rief said the streets are completed and now they are working on restoration work such as planting grass.
He noted there was a Fire District informational meeting this week and discussion surrounding City
Administrators and Fire Chiefs as to what that looks like, where everyone is at with it and if it is feasible.
At the next meeting they are bringing someone in from the State Fire Marshall's office to help structure
what it looks like and how to evaluate it. He thinks it is something the City needs to explore and provide
the best answer to residents on what the future of their fire services looks like. He noted a concern he has
on what it would look like for taxpayers, and he did a quick analysis of what the tax base looks like for
Orono compared to everyone else and essentially, Orono has 50%of the entire tax base of the proposed
cities that would be involved. This is a pretty significant negative impact for a district if it is only tax-
based. He basically told the City Administrators and Fire Chiefs that if it will be based on taxes alone and
the assessed values of their homes, Orono is not interested. He reported there are other models being
looked at, noting a Joint Power Association(JPA) model would give Orono flexibility on how the fee
structure is allocated.
Seals said doing it tax-based is great for the bulk of the district except for two cities: Minnetonka Beach
and Orono. She told some of the partnering cities, as a Councilmember, she cannot look their residents in
the face and explain why one Orono resident pays more per hour than a non-Orono city resident. She said
if the tax model is the direction it is heading, don't even waste the time looking at it. She noted everyone
needs to pay the same amount per hour, and some cities' costs may go up. Right now they are being
subsidized by other cities that are paying a tax model.
Page 18 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Crosby stated Orono has more lakeshore than any city on the lake, but land doesn't burn for the most part,
they just have value in it, so of course they're willing to charge for that.
Seals said the majority of calls are medical.
Crosby stated it should be based on a use-basis.
The Councilmembers agreed.
Crosby said it should be based on revenue dollars, also.
Rief also expressed that and said he used the Lake Minnetonka Conservation District(LMCD)model and
the frustration with it, noting Orono's concern is that they want to be equal to the amount of money they
pay in, an equal share of management and control of that component. He stated Medina is under a lot of
pressure right now to make some decisions and if they are willing to commit, Rief will bring it back to the
Council.
Mayor Walsh suggested the City get ready and look at options for moving forward on their own if
needed,just in case.
Rief said the July to August 2022 timeframe when they are looking at budgets for 2023 is when they
would have to start making those decisions.
21. FLAG POLICY
Rief noted at the last Council meeting after the flag discussion came up, Council directed Staff to
present a policy which he has brought forth tonight. Using the guidelines of the services
provided to the public in Orono: Police, Fire and Public Works, and in the event the City felt like
they need to honor a resident for their service in the Armed Forces, they could also do that as
well.
Mayor Walsh said regarding the flags, it would be good to have the flexibility to fly them when
they want to.
Crosby stated the Blue Line Flag, the Red Line Flag and the Public Works Flag should fly on its
own separate flagpole 365 days a year; he noted that the current flagpole for the American Flag
is rather short and he proposed using that flagpole for the Blue Line, Red Line and Public Works
Flags and they will get a larger,taller American flagpole for the Veterans as it should always be
flying higher than the other flags. Both flagpoles will be lit and the location of the Blue Line,
Red Line and Public Works Flags will be determined in the future but someplace prominent out
front with cameras for security purposes. Regarding the flag discussion, Crosby would like to
say for the record,this was never a political thing for him; it was honoring the people who keep
them safe and doing it in a kind way to show that the City has their backs and supports them.
The night before, he thought about the public works guys going out in the storm to fix the power
outage. He personally appreciates all the comments, emails and phone calls; even those from the
Page 19 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
other side of the issue. He said all the folks that came to the Council meeting tonight were
outstanding and he appreciates that the community of Orono is behind their Police Officers and
Fire Fighters. Crosby explained when he was a fire fighter for 10 years, he ran into buildings for
$10/hour noting it cost him more in gas to get to the Fire Station, so to say they are not doing the
same job or something of that nature is not real. He said they are color blind and serve all
citizens and he has never seen anyone have a racist attitude or try to make it about race...they are
all humans beings and there to help each other. He said he has always believed in Martin Luther
King and judging people by their character rather than their skin color, race, sex or sexual
orientation. He said Mr. Qualls said it so well tonight: hopefully this can unify people for good
things and positive community events and bring people into the fold. Crosby told Mayor Walsh
he is amazing and he appreciates the Mayor for fielding many of the emails.
Mayor Walsh said it's important to remember these are flags that have been around for 100-plus
years that support the Police, Fire and First Responders and are not tied to any movement or
whatever movement that ends with"Matter." He noted it shows the citizens of Orono that they
will not defund the services, they stand by those services and people can be secure in the
knowledge that they will be safe all the time and taken care of with the City services. He said
this is important because just a few days ago the Minneapolis City Council had an online forum
for people and all people did was scream at the Council and say they do not feel safe to go
outside, to go to school, or the grocery stores as there are shootings in the neighborhood and
people are fleeing and selling their homes. Mayor Walsh stated the City Council sent the wrong
sign back to the wrong candidate. He said the candidate is the services the City provides and
their first job as Councilmembers is to provide public safety and then they can do everything
else. That is part of the reason they want the flags to fly 365 days a year because they do not
honor them just once a year, they honor them 365 days a year.
Johnson noted a resident made an offer to give them a flagpole and that may be a logistics
component as sometimes it is a bigger deal to remove a pole than to put in a new one.
Mayor Walsh and Crosby noted the American Flag pole must be taller than the other flagpole.
Walsh also said if there are residents willing to fund a flagpole, the City needs to get the flagpole
and tell the residents what it is, similar to the fireworks. He noted the Ben Goodman Family
texted him during the meeting to donate $2,500 towards the fireworks, and said the spirit is
already there.
Seals said this is a very emotion-filled topic that she wasn't expecting, nor did she expect a room
full of people at tonight's meeting. Like Crosby, she appreciates hearing from both sides and
noted she did not respond as she watched the communications with Mayor Walsh and the
community go back-and-forth. She stated what is important for residents to know is just because
they feel one way—they should be heard—but it doesn't mean it is the way everyone else feels.
There was one side emailing that they were not for this, and another group saying they need to
keep the flag up. She cautioned the public not to build their truths off of social media;what she
means is someone may see something on Instagram and immediately copy exactly what is on
there and think it is the truth. Seals thinks that is extremely dangerous and she saw that
Page 20 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
happening in some emails where people were quoting exactly from social media and making
pretty big accusations about everyone. She noted they don't want to be that group out in Orono
and she knows they are all better than that. She noted one other accusation that came up over
and over again and she stated if anyone knows the City Attorney, he is Danish and is very direct
and will tell them the moment they cross or get near that line. That is just not the truth, she
knows their Staff and the Attorney did their research and did their homework, reached out to the
State and the Council and Mayor would never want to create an environment where people feel
like they could not vote. She happens to have a husband who is a fireman and she asked the
other firemen, who were very clear that they need the City to stand by them and the Police.
When things were happening in Minneapolis, she couldn't have felt better knowing that Orono's
Police were here ready to protect them, and many residents kept asking her "our guys aren't
going to leave us, are they?" Men and women in uniform have a tough road, walking into the
line of fire and situations not knowing what is coming at them, they are on 24/7,they are there
for the public and Seals stated: "we should support them." She noted the City needs to set the
tone and say they support their people and it is not about a movement and has nothing to do with
anything political; whatever side someone votes for or stands on does not matter. She loves the
idea of getting a bigger flagpole for the American Flag and a second pole to fly the other ones.
Crosby noted it is unfortunate in today's society that if people disagree with someone, they must
come in and attack and disparage a person's character. He is here to say he is pretty tough, he is
a New Jersey guy and they are not going to scare him. He asked the community to show their
children how to handle people properly and be kind to each other—people can agree to disagree
with each other—but it doesn't mean they need to go on the attack or start name-calling without
even knowing that person as that is unfair, uneducated, and ignorant. Crosby said they have
freedom, democracy and freedom of speech and that is a wonderful thing. He said if they take
that away, people are in big trouble.
Rief thanked Ms. Ferrer for being willing to donate a flagpole and said that means a lot. He said
he will work with Mr. Edwards and Police Chief Farniok to decide the size and type they need
and will reach out to Ms. Ferrer.
Mayor Walsh told Rief to let him know the cost is and he will follow through on that.
Rief said they will also have a couple of locations and bring that to the next Council meeting for
informal input.
Crosby moved,Johnson seconded, to adopt the Flag Policy with the changes discussed.
VOTE: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
CITY ATTORNEY REPORT
Page 21 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
22. LAND ACQUISITION OF 365 OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD NORTH
Rief stated 365 Old Crystal Bay Road North is a property currently owned by the Minnesota Department
of Transportation. In August there was a discussion regarding future use of that property for the facilities
and services of the City of Orono. They have gone through the Title Commitment and the Environmental
Assessment and it is all satisfactory.
Attorney Mattick reported his office has reviewed the forms and resolutions and everything is in order at
this point.
Johnson moved, Seals seconded, to approve Resolution dispensing with statutory
requirements for review by Planning Commission of acquisition of property and to
approve Acquisition of Property from the Minnesota Department of Transportation.
Crosby asked what the total cost of the acquisition is.
Rief replied it is $340,000 for the land, with Attorney Mattick's fees added to that.
VOTE: Ayes, 4 Nays 0.
CLOSED SESSION
The meeting will be closed as permitted by §13D.05, Subd. 3(a),to evaluate the performance of
the City Administrator, Dustin Rief.
Walsh moved, Crosby seconded, to move the Closed Session to the next Council Meeting.
VOTE: Ayes 4, Nays 0.
Walsh welcomed Ms. Ms. Johnson to the podium as she was not there during the earlier portion
of the meeting.
Robin Johnson said regarding Consent Agenda No.) 11, LA20-000062, she is a property rights
person, believes in allowing people to build, and sees benefits to building on that corner. In
2019, that property was valued at $21,000 and they paid $285 in taxes across the street,they're
paying $360,000 for 2 acres, so build it, bring it up, it's good for the neighborhood and she sees
all the benefits. Plus, it is an older couple and they obviously have a beautiful vision for living in
that home. She is not here to request they do not build; instead, she is simply concerned about
three remaining issues. The biggest is the traffic safety issue and noted she will bike home in the
dark tonight and when she hits the hill on County Road 19 and North Arm Drive, it is a blind
turn over the hill and people are driving 50, 60, 70 miles per hour. She noted the last 2-3 years
the traffic density has really increased on County Road 19, and she did some research after her
initial visit to the Planning Commission and talked the Orono Police Department, who said there
really is a higher concentration of accidents on that blind corner and the challenge is that it is a
Hennepin County Road. She leaves the solution in the Council's hands but noted she will not go
to sleep tonight well knowing a house will be built on that corner with a driveway right there on
Page 22 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
a blind road and if someone got hurt and she didn't say something she would feel horrible.
Second, she knows the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District has looked at the wetland issue and
she wants to make clear there is significant flood plain drainage that runs off of the topography
both North and West of that land and streams right in between 4280 and 350 North Arm Drive.
She noted a culvert onscreen based on where a creek will run into the Lakeview Golf Course is
not really where the creek opens, rather it is closer to the future driveway on the property. She
said the drainage really floods out there and starts to move East to the culvert and fills in the
creek that runs into Lakeview Lake and puts a lot of moisture into that wetland area in the spring.
She requests that someone walk the property and look at it, as some people don't even realize
there was a one-room schoolhouse on the property.
Mayor Walsh stated he did walk the site and with that huge ravine there, he was amazed to see
that the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District (MCWD) said there is no watershed there at all,
it's not a creek, it's just a drainage ditch.
Ms. Johnson said the MCWD said it is a flood plain but they did not send anyone to the site to
look at it because it is not a development but rather a single family home and it is on the City to
take a look at that.
Mayor Walsh said regarding the speed issue, he would like Ms. Johnson to follow up with Rief
and Edwards to see what the options are.
Ms. Johnson noted Misty Brady who lives next door to 4280 North Arm Drive wrote a very
eloquent letter and gave to her to read to the Council tonight but she botched it by being late.
She noted Ms. Brady emailed it to Mr. Barnhart tonight and she hopes the Council gets a chance
to look at it as it is thoughtfully crafted and has some interesting points of view that are worth
looking at. Finally, she wants to say regarding practical difficulties, is it in keeping with the
neighborhood, and .497 acres is not in keeping with that neighborhood and with the exception of
one neighbors at 1.7 acres, everyone else is around 2.6 acres or 5.5 acres.
Mayor Walsh stated that is found throughout Orono and gave the example of Crystal Bay, as it is
a 2-acre zone, and everything is .25 acres or smaller and that lends itself to the fact that everyone
gets a variance for lot width size because of those issues as that is inherent to the practical
difficulty of the zoning district they are in. He noted there is not a lot of wiggle room on that.
Rief responded to a couple of the comments and noted Staff had a discussion on the differences between a
creek and a drainage swale, noting there must be water running in it year round in order for it to be a
creek. That is when the Watershed District steps in as jurisdiction for managing a buffer, so in this
capacity it does not require any buffer. As far as the traffic component, Rief will pass it along to the
Police Chief and do some monitoring there and will also engage the County because from the time he
started three years ago until now, the traffic has increased due to development. He noted it has created
more of a danger at that intersection and they can evaluate and look at changing it to a 4-way stop or slow
the speed limit to 45 miles per hour or something similar.
Page 23 of 24
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, October 12, 2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Ms. Johnson stated when they do build on the property, construction vehicles parked on the road can also
be a danger for people coming around the curve.
Rief stated the lot should be big enough for all construction vehicles to be parked on the lot, and he
doesn't believe there is enough of a shoulder to park on the road and that is something they will manage
on the building permit side and handled by the building inspectors.
Crosby moved, Seals seconded,to adjourn the meeting at 8:35 p.m.
ATT _T: /
/ , fp 0
Anna Carlson, City Clerk Dennis Walsh, Mayor
Page 24 of 24