HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-14-2020 Council Minutes MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, September 14,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
ROLL CALL
The Orono City Council met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present: Mayor
Dennis Walsh, City Council Members Richard Crosby, III, Matt Johnson,Aaron Printup and Victoria
Seals. Representing Staff were City Attorney Soren Mattick, Community Development Director Jeremy
Barnhart, Public Works Director/City Engineer Adam Edwards and City Administrator Dustin Rief.
Mayor Walsh called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
CONSENT AGENDA
1. CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF AUGUST 24,2020
2. COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES OF AUGUST 24,2020
3. CLAIMSBILLS
4. MONTHLY UTILITY RATES
5. APPROVE RENTAL LICENSE
6. ANNUAL SPORTSMEN'S GUN CLUB—LIMITED USE PERMIT
This item was removed from the Consent Agenda.
7. APPROVAL TO ACCEPT DONATION OF FACE MASKS FOR ELECTION JUDGES
FROM SUE CARLSON
8. APPROVAL TO ACCEPT DONATIONS FOR BIG ISLAND PARK
9. CARTEGRAPH CONTRACT RENEWAL
10. TREE INVENTORY GRANT
11. LA20-000049—MICHAEL SHARRATT, SHARRATT DESIGN O/B/O KEVIN& JESSICA
FINNEGAN,3435 CRYSTAL BAY ROAD,VARIANCES-RESOLUTION
Crosby asked to remove Item No. 6 from the Consent Agenda.
Crosby moved,Printup seconded,to approve the Consent Agenda as revised,with Item No. 6 being
removed.VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
None
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, September 14,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
PRESENTATION
12. PROCLAMATION FOR CONSTITUTION WEEK
Crosby read a proclamation from Mayor Walsh:
WHEREAS,It is the privilege and duty of the American people to commemorate the two hundred
and thirty-third anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America
with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and WHEREAS, Public Law 915 guarantees the
issuing of a proclamation each year by the President of the United States of America designating
September 17 through 23 as Constitution Week,NOW, THEREFORE I,Dennis Walsh by virtue
of the authority vested in me as Mayor of the City of Orono in the State of Minnesota do hereby
proclaim the week of September 17 thru 23, 2020 as CONSTITUTION WEEK And urge all
citizens to study the Constitution and reflect on the privilege of being an American with all the
rights and responsibilities which that privilege involves. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have
hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the City of Orono,Minnesota to be affixed this 14th
day of September of the year two thousand twenty.
Printup moved,Crosby seconded,to accept the proclamation.VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
13. PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING NATIONAL PREGNANCY AND INFANT LOSS
REMEMBRANCE DAY
Seals read a proclamation from Mayor Walsh:
Whereas, Infants Remembered In Silence, Inc. (IRIS)and many other nonprofit organizations
work with thousands of parents all over Minnesota and across the United States who have
experienced the death of a child during pregnancy through early childhood; and Whereas,Many
of these parents live in, deliver in,have a child die in,or a bury a child in our community; and
Whereas, Infants Remembered In Silence(IRIS)a 501(c)(3)nonprofit organization was founded
1987,33 years ago,to offer support for parents whose child/children died from miscarriage,
ectopic pregnancy, molar pregnancy, stillbirth,neo-natal death, birth defects, sudden unexplained
death of a child(SUDC), sudden infant death syndrome(SIDS), illness, accidents,and all other
types of infants and early childhood death; and Whereas,bereaved parents around the world
remember their children annually on October 15 with candle lighting at 7 pm. Some will
remember their child/children in their homes while others will remember them in small
gatherings around the state, across the nation and around the world;and this would unify these
parents in tribute to their children; and Whereas, in honor of the thousands of children that die
each year in Minnesota, Infants Remembered In Silence,Inc. (IRIS)respectfully requests that
October 15th,2020 be recognized as Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day.NOW,
THEREFORE I,Dennis Walsh by virtue of the authority vested in me as Mayor of the City of
Orono in the State of Minnesota do hereby proclaim October 15,2020 be recognized as
Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
my hand and caused the Seal of the City of Orono,Minnesota to be affixed this 14th day of
September of the year two thousand twenty.
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6:00 o'clock p.m.
Crosby said he thinks it is a beautiful proclamation and he has friends who lost a baby on 9/11/2001 and
were devastated. It is something they never forget and he is sure they pray every day. Crosby said he
commends Mayor Walsh for bringing this up—it is awesome.
Crosby moved,Johnson seconded,to accept the proclamation.VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
Seals noted there is a resident in Orono who is world-renowned on this topic,named Sherokee Ilse who
lived here for a very long time and recently moved away. She was an expert and actually spoke and
counseled around the world regarding this topic.
Walsh noted this brings the Council to No. 6,the Annual Sportsmen Gun Club Limited Use Permit,
which was taken off the Consent Agenda.
Printup noted he is okay with it and just has a question regarding the permit. He said it is an annual
permit and asked if they could potentially make it a five-year permit.
Rief replied it is written in the code as an annual permit but they can modify the code to adjust for that.
Crosby said he'd be comfortable with that.
Johnson said one of the functions is the police department needs to do a background check to approve it,
so perhaps that is the trigger that holds it up.
Rief said he will bring it up to Orono Police Chief Correy Farniok.
Seals said one year seems a little short.
Walsh noted it has been around forever and they're seeing it annually.
Rief stated the reason it is late is because of the person who submitted the application is new, so they are
going through the process for the first time.
Walsh said the Council can pass it for the year so it's done and then bring it back,change the code if
allowable, and amend it. He'd like to get it renewed in the meantime so the Club isn't held up.
Printup moved,Johnson seconded,to approve the Annual Sportsmen Gun Club Limited Use
Permit.VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
PLANNING DEPARTMENT REPORT
14. LA20-000030 and LA20-000050—ERIC LUTH OB/O GORDON JAMES
CONSTRUCTION, 135 ORONO ORCHARD ROAD,PRELIMINARY PLAT AND
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT-RESOLUTION
John Quinlivan OB/O Gordon James Construction,Applicant, was present.
Staff presented a summary packet of information. Barnhart noted the question to expand the Municipal
Urban Service Area(MUSA)came forward around 2015 or 2016, and the potential developer at that time
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proposed a 15-lot subdivision which was quite a bit more dense than proposed today. As part of that
proposal the developer needed to provide municipal services. He noted this project is also proposing an
expansion of the MUSA but does not propose any change to the land use or change to the density. It is
consistent with existing code and is consistent with what the Comprehensive Plan says with the exception
of the MUSA boundary.
Walsh asked if he could clear up some of the issues from the past. When the developer came and
proposed 15 units, it increased the density and because the density was so high,they couldn't do septic
systems at that time because the yard wasn't big enough. The reason for the denial was the density issue,
so it was a moot point for the septic versus being on the MUSA. Over time,they are also looking at the
ecological issues of being close to wetlands or being downhill to lakes and having the opportunity to do it
correctly the first time so there aren't any potential problems in the future,and noted the Council has tried
to lean that way. He thinks in the sketch plan the Council decided it would be a good situation to look at.
Barnhart said the Comprehensive Plan contemplates expansion of the MUSA for all properties,not
necessarily high density properties, and there are certain priorities. One of the priorities is proximity to
the lake or tributaries and he pointed out on the onscreen map that the left side is basically a tributary to
Lake Minnetonka and does meet criteria for expansion of the MUSA. In reviewing the Comp Plan in this
proposal, Staff recommends approval of the MUSA expansion. The Met Council establishes a minimum
density the City must have in their served areas of 3 units an acre throughout the community. The City is
currently at 4.68 units per acre,based on the 2020/2040 Comp Plan; if approved,this proposal would
drop that to 4.43 units per acre, noting it is a relatively modest drop. He said that is the point behind the
Council putting together the Comp Plan in 2018 that identified the potential for a need to expand the
MUSA and provide enough cushion to do so without putting density in areas where they don't want to put
density.
Walsh asked for future reference,when they get down to the 4.43,how much flexibility does the 1.43
extra give.
Barnhart said he doesn't know that number.
Walsh said that's always a good number for the Council to remember, so if someone like the Willow and
112 property that they want to look more like Stone Bay, would actually bring the density down, and
when the Council has those opportunities,they like to bring it down if they can and understand how much
room and flexibility they have.
Barnhart noted it's an interesting question, because it is the number of lots,but it's also the amount of
acreage, so on a big parcel like the Dumas Orchard which is approximately 30 acres, if they were to drop
the density from what the guidance is of 20 units/acre down to 3-4 units/acre that would probably have
some impact. The Willow property is a relatively small 3 acre piece, so it will impact but not drastically.
He said he could include some numbers in a packet.
Walsh said yes,that would be a reminder of the tools the Council can use as they look at these
developments coming in and try to keep the density down.
Printup said across the street on the corner,the Preserve, about 20-30 years ago people were screeching in
town because they wanted to develop it, and it would've been around 10 homes. Because of the passage
of time, and because of the thumb of the Met Council and different regulations,now the City is looking at
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40 homes. He said when people are howling at the moon over something, he hopes they remember that
the passage of time needs to be worried about as well when dealing with the"hated"Met Council.
Barnhart said in terms of the Planning Commission review of the plat and MUSA expansion,they
recommended approval of the plat at a vote of 7-0. The Planning Commission recommended approval of
the Comp Plan amendment at a vote of 6-1 (Commissioner Gettman did not support the expansion of the
MUSA into this property). The public comments received to date dealt with expansion of MUSA now
versus in the past and some questions were raised about visual impact into the property. The lots are two-
acre rural lots,there is not any screening proposed on the boundary of the lots. From a Planning Staff
perspective,they believe that the development is in character with that area. Staff recommends approval
of both the MUSA expansion(Comp Plan Amendment)and also the Preliminary Plat subject to the
conditions outlined in the resolution.
John Quinlivan of Gordon James Inc, 5159 Main Street, Maple Plain, said they are not looking to increase
density but to do what is right in a challenging area where there are many steep slopes and sensitive
wetlands and they feel this would be a good layout.
There were no public comments regarding the item, so Mayor Walsh asked the Council for their
feedback.
Seals looked back at the notes from 2017 when they talked about MUSA and noted the issue back then
was an increase of density which the Council was absolutely not for. She remembered there was
discussion around changing the MUSA so they could do the density. If she recalls correctly,they were
pleasantly surprised that a developer came back with something that fit within the zoning. She
understands that neighbors have been looking at beautiful trees and land without development,but from
the proposal of the plan, she doesn't think there is anything to deny because it fits the mold. She
acknowledged that it is tough as people don't want the view to change, but it must change because that is
how it is zoned. She stated the MUSA is tough because if she was in that area and had to get a septic
system back in the day, she probably would've loved the MUSA as it's a better deal. She thinks people
are probably thinking that same thing, but to Mayor Walsh's point,they should use the MUSA where it
makes sense, such as around the lake, wetlands, etcetera. She said it's not about building houses left and
right after the MUSA expansion;that is not the intent. If she recalls in the past it was a no on MUSA
because of the density.
Walsh said Seals had a good point that the Council was pleasantly surprised that someone came in with
the standards that are there and over time people have started to figure out that this Council is not going to
approve higher density. If they want to come in with what is on the table and with the density they are
supposed to have,they will have a reasonable chance of getting things done. He said it's nice to see it
come in the way it should and then the Council doesn't have to fight with them and tell them no and have
them come back. He pointed out Mr. Quinlivan brought it to the Council in the right way.
Printup moved,Johnson seconded,to approve LA20-000030 and LA20-000050.
Johnson said regarding the concerns of the neighbors,he gathered that the neighbors thought when they
wanted the MUSA,they were unable to and now someone else comes in and gets it and it's not fair. He
thinks that was perhaps a big part of it, although that wasn't the case, as before it was a singular lot and
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now it's part of a development. He said the Council tries to treat everyone fairly and do what makes
sense for the City as a whole.
Mayor Walsh agreed and added they think about what's best for the community as a whole, regarding the
lake and all of those things.
Crosby noted the party who wrote the letter is not at the meeting tonight.
Johnson said he thinks it goes without saying that the approval ties the Council's support for the MUSA
expansion into a 5-acre development. If the developer sells the property off,the Council is not setting
aside a MUSA expansion for this parcel as a whole in the future, instead it is tied in to this specific
density and asked if that is correct.
Mayor Walsh replied yes.
Barnhart noted the Comp Plan Amendment process has two steps,the first is tonight where Council
directs Staff to submit an application to the Met Council,who will approve the application with the
condition of the Council approving the final version. He said the Council will approve the final version at
the same time that they approve the final plat.
Mayor Walsh said even if the property was sold off and a different developer came in and wanted to
increase density beyond what is supposed to be on the books,they would still need to come back to the
Council.
Johnson asked if the MUSA is still reopened then once it changes.
Walsh replied yes.
Johnson said with that clarification he continues to second the motion.
Printup said to further clarify,the zoning is pretty firm.
VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
15. LA19-000048—TIMOTHY WHITTEN O/B/0 IRWIN JACOBS 2018 REV TRUST, 1700
SHORELINE DRIVE PRLIMINARY PLAT—RESOLUTION
Timothy Whitten O/B/O Irwin Jacobs 2018 Rev Trust,Applicant,was present as well as Mark Gronberg
of Gronberg and Associates,the Civil Engineer.
Staff presented a summary packet of information.
Crosby asked if the lots are considered lake lots.
Barnhart replied right now the lots are not considered lake lots as platted because they do not have
frontage on the lake. The intention is that Lot 3 will combine with Lot A with a corresponding out-lot on
the South side of Shoreline,those lots would then be lake lots.
Walsh noted the developer can't do that until they are platted.
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Johnson said the shoreline is not an easement over the property at this point and asked if there is a way to
tie the conditions of those out-lots, or how they could tie that in versus using those as out-lots. Lake
Minnetonka Conservation District(LMCD)has jurisdiction over the water and they don't tie those in,
they could potentially petition to the LMCD to get a multiple dock license for those other properties. He
noted the rigid ordinance that states if there isn't a primary structure on a lot there cannot be an accessory
structure(the dock)and that is why they have to combine them. What Johnson would not want to see
happen is that the Council approves it,the developer uses those as out-lots,they attempt to get multiple
dock license from the LMCD and put multiple docks over there versus the three. He said the three land
owners could put a singular dock together.
Walsh said he doesn't think they could because there isn't a structure on those lots and if they don't
combine them they have no structure.
Barnhart anticipated that as a concern and noted in the resolution they put in that lots would be combined
after platting and before any building permit would be issued on lots 1,2, and 3.
Johnson said that is a good job because the LMCD doesn't have a concern about a structure being on the
property as that is a municipal concern. The LMCD just deals with the docks. He said he'd wait to hear
more about the average lakeshore setback, noting the neighbors brought up an interesting question about
average lakeshore setback when they're developing because all of the properties there are set back very
far.
Barnhart noted Johnson is jumping way ahead of him. The public comment received to date has to do
with the West property line and noted there is not a plan to remove vegetation on Lot 3 and 4, and
recognizing the concern they could work with the developer to put that in as a requirement in the final
plat documents. Another issue raised from the public had to do with serving the plat with City Water,
noting City Water is not near this property and there are no plans to extend water to the property, instead
all the lots will be served by wells. There was also a question about burying the electrical and telephone
lines, and said final plans haven't been developed at this stage but it is expected that the electric lines will
be buried as it City standard, but overhead lines above Shoreline Drive are not proposed to be buried. It is
common to bury the lines within the subdivision. At the Planning Commission level,there was quite a lot
of discussion regarding the impacts on the average lakeshore setback. Barnhart said it's very difficult to
describe during a public meeting, as there are so many moving parts, depending on when a house was
built, where the other house is, and he tried to document what he was as a reasonable expectation of
lakeshore setback. He met with a neighboring property owner who had many questions during the
Planning Commission meeting and tried to identify those issues.
Walsh noted in the past they've seen houses going around a round body of water and depending on who
built first, it could mess up all the average lakeshore setbacks. The Council felt it was important then and
at other times to identify that minimum they can always build at,regardless of who builds first. In the
future, if someone tears down a house that could change, but at least in the beginning everyone gets the
same shot at getting the average lakeshore setback they think they're going to get.
Barnhart said Johnson identified part of the uniqueness of the property as there are two lakefront edges.
He showed a map on screen and walked through the average lakeshore setbacks based on neighboring
properties. He said this would provide a buildable site for Lot 6 that is outside of the average lakeshore
setback and outside the bluff area. He noted there is no average lakeshore setback for Lot 5 as it is not a
lake lot, and the bluff and vegetation will impact location of the house.
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Johnson asked if Lot 4 is a lake lot.
Barnhart replied it is not, and Lots 1, 2 and 3 are lake lots and that is where it gets really interesting. He
noted the red line at the top of the screen is the average lakeshore setback.
Seals asked where the house is as it sits right now.
Barnhart pointed out a spot on the on screen map.
Johnson asked to pull up the property on the County map.
Barnhart pointed out the gray structure to the North on the aerial map and said that is the existing
principal structure and the average lakeshore setback for this lot as it impacts Smith Bay are the properties
on either side,which are the house to the West(1760 Shoreline)and the house to the East(1125
Millston). He said that is where the red line on the previous exhibit comes from and cuts through the
property. That line makes it impossible to build on Lots 2 and 3 in particular because everything would
be in front of that line. What impacts the average lakeshore setback is what is next door, giving the
example that if the lot next door to you is vacant,you'd use the lot on the other side and use that distance
from the lake. He asked,what happens if both lots are vacant, and said to keep in mind that the new road
accessing the new subdivision is now a road rather than a driveway and is part of the right-of-way
question. If a lot is adjacent to the right-of-way,they must use the distance of the next door neighbor
from the lake, so they wouldn't even consider 1125 Millston anymore. Going back to the exhibit, he
proposed a Line C which would use 1125 Millston as a starting point and come across to an arbitrary
point on 1760 Shoreline with the goal of minimizing or making efficient use of Lots 1,2 and 3 and
minimizing the impact on 1760 Shoreline. Without a manufactured new average lakeshore setback, lots 2
and 3 will require variances to build on. Staff is proposing this to address the average lakeshore setback,
at least for the initial construction on those lots...after that initial construction,then the normal average
lakeshore setback issue would apply.
Printup asked to be shown again why Lots 2 and 3 would be looking at variances.
Barnhart answered the way they're proposing it they wouldn't need variances, however, if they didn't
create Line C on the map,the average lakeshore setback puts the Lots in front of the setback.
Printup said he understands.
Barnhart noted there was already a comment made about protecting the vegetation on the West property
line and that lot is quite a bit higher and they will try to mitigate as much as possible the impact on the
view.
Crosby said if the Council sticks to their guns,they'd use the top Line A, but it doesn't seem quite
reasonable.
Mayor Walsh said at almost every other Council meeting they're seeing houses that are far back and
others that are really close to the lake and is it a hardship.
Johnson asked how many acres are above the pre-development line.
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Barnhart asked if he wants to clarify how many acres are above Line A.
Johnson said it's not the Council's job to design the development,but he is just curious if they maintain
the average lakeshore setback, how many usable acres are there for a development.
Barnhart replied depending on the road,his guess it close to four. He said to keep in mind that the
average lakeshore setback will change based on the timing.
Johnson noted there are already two established neighbors on each side and if this one is completely
empty and it's a completely new development and that line is there,for example,he said if a single family
home was going on,the Council would be very rigid to that pre-existing average lakeshore setback line.
The question in front of the Council is because it's a development, and whether they should look at
adjusting that line.He said he'll wait to learn more but at this point he doesn't see why he would support
a line other than that average lakeshore setback and the developer can work within the pre-existing lines
to determine how that development looks.
Seals said it's a good question and they would hold a homeowner to the original line.
Crosby said they'd do it very rigidly. He said looking back to the map the property to the East has a main
house and perhaps a guest house.
Barnhart said average lakeshore setback is a confusing topic and he'd like to make sure they don't go too
far astray. The lot to the East on Millston is a separate lot and the reason the property owner may use it as
a guest cottage is because it's a separate lot and is a principal structure on that lot, so they used the
average lakeshore setback from that point. He pointed out that the time of the final plat of the property,
the average lakeshore setback at the time of platting would mean the average lakeshore setback for Lot 1
will be based on the distance that Lot 2 is from the lake,there's no structure on that so the average
lakeshore setback is approximately 75 feet, which is on a marsh so they don't have to worry much about
it. Lot 2 is based on the location of the house on Lot 1 and on Lot 3. If there is no structure on either of
those lots,then it will be 75 feet back. If there is one structure on either of those lots,then it is that
distance. If Lot 3 happens to be the first one built,the average lakeshore setback(ALS)will be the
distance(about 850 feet)of 1760 Shoreline,the lot to the West.
Crosby asked if this is a new caveat on a newly platted lot.
Barnhart said they do this frequently because when they have in-fill lakeshore development, as this one is,
there are current expectations and situations and a desire to help mitigate those issues but also to respect
what the code says. If there wasn't a proposed ALS Line C, and the property has been platted,Lots 1 and
2, depending on their order built, could be much closer to the lake as proposed.
Johnson clarified Barnhart is saying that once developed,the ALS line changes.
Barnhart replied once platted, the ALS line changes.
Johnson said he understands that but the question at hand is that it's a singular lot being developed, and it
makes sense to him that once everything is divided up and the way the houses are constructed can
manipulate the line,noting he understands that. However, he doesn't think that is the question for him.
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Crosby said he's not seeing it either and asked if he's missing something. As Johnson said the developer
could manipulate the line however they want it, for example going 75 feet back and bring everything
forward.
Johnson said the ALS is to protect(in his mind)the existing neighbors already there that had some sort of
use and enjoyment. Just because it's a development he doesn't see why that affords more privilege
because the lot is big enough to break down.
Mayor Walsh said if it was one house, Line A is the line, but once they start breaking up the lots, Line A
is not the line anymore.
Crosby said there is no property there so basically they're moving things forward to create the argument.
Johnson said they could still break things up and adhere to that line.
Crosby is curious to hear the stance of the properties to the West and to the East.
Mayor Walsh said for the sake of argument,the developer just goes and does that, where is the red line
then.
Barnhart asked to clarify the question- if the developer does what.
Walsh said if the property is platted just like it's shown,where would the red line be now, noting the
setback would be 75 feet from the high-water line and it would be right in the marsh.
Johnson said this is the ALS from the Southern part of the lake based on the existing properties.
Walsh responded if it was one property,but if it's not one property,those red lines don't apply and there
are different rules that get appropriated in that case. He clarified that what Barnhart is saying is that
instead of having the ASL be 75 feet in the middle of the marsh,they'd propose Line C as the closest they
can get to the marsh.
Johnson said in an effort to make Lots 1, 2 and 3 feasible,that's what a person would do.
Walsh said to remember that Line A is only because it's one property and once it's delineated into
multiple properties, Line A doesn't exist anymore.
Johnson stated he's not confused as to how they've come to the lines, he's just saying they could develop
it and Lots 1,2 and 3 could be North of the average lakeshore setback and come up with a development
that maintains the neighboring properties.
Walsh is trying to show that the developer doesn't have to do that if it gets platted like this. They can be
right where Line C is without asking permission because once they re-plat it, it's just information that's
not on the map, and the line is actually right in the middle of the marsh. He said this is showing if it was
one property,they would have to build above Line A.
Crosby said wouldn't they need to be cognizant of the neighbors to the East and West.
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Walsh said once there are three properties in a row,they wouldn't do an average lakeshore setback three
properties over, it would be with the properties next door. Therefore once there are three properties it
takes away the farther neighbors.
Johnson said maybe he has it wrong and asked if it is already platted and noted it doesn't exist yet.
Walsh replied he's saying if it was platted,those red lines aren't the red line they'd be looking at, instead
they'd be looking at different lines and wants to make sure that information is not missing.
Johnson said exactly.
Walsh said Lot 4 doesn't matter as it's not a lake lot,and regarding Lots 1, 2 and 3,their line is in the
middle of the marsh.
Printup said point to point,as they already talked about it,goes with the contours of the land and out at
Walters Port with the corners to corners,they put that to the side because they looked at the lakeshore.
Crosby said they also pushed it back pretty far.
Walsh said the question is,does the Council want to approve the plat because once they say they can go
plat it, deal with the lines as they are,then it's not the red lines the Council is looking at. He noted
they're not deciding that Lot 2 should build way up there, if it's platted this way, Lot 2 can build it within
75 feet or as close to the wetland as they want to, whatever the setbacks are.
Crosby asked if its 75 feet back from the wetland or lakeshore.
Barnhart said he thinks the setback needs to be 20 feet back from the wetland.
Walsh said they're pushing it even farther from the wetland by creating Line C.
Crosby said he'd like to hear what the neighbors think.
Tim Whitten of Whitten Associates, representing the Jacobs Family Trust said he is here with Mark
Gronberg,the Civil Engineer who created the plans they are looking at today. He said it's an
extraordinary condition with lakes on both sides of the property and there is a single house on one side
and another house setback a tremendous amount because of a wetland. He said to use that as a guiding
point to determine how far the houses can be towards the lake is extraordinary in this case. If they look at
the scale,they can see how far back they really are,the houses are over 200 feet back from the lake with
Line C, so it's not a developable property if they can't set the line in that location. His position is that
what is shown on Line C is a pretty fair position and when there are two properties next door that are 10-
12 acres and are setback from the lake by 200 feet,then the property next to it must be setback by 200
feet or greater and he thinks that is unfortunate for the property in the middle. He welcomed questions.
Crosby asked the feedback they've had from the neighbors.
Mr. Whitten responded they've had neighbor meetings and everybody loved it,there have been no issues
whatsoever. He said they could hear from Barbara Burwell who is present tonight and she has been very
gracious.
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Mark Gronberg noted the house to the West is dictating the average lakeshore setback line and because of
the big marsh to the West,they're built back way up on the hill approximately 800 feet and is also 40-50
feet higher than the lots in question. He said it was a similar situation on Judd Dayton's property where
there was a house to the West which had a big marsh and was set back on the hill and the Council looked
at it and realized it was a unique situation.
Ms. Barbara Burwell, 1100 Millston Road, 1125 Millston Road, 1075 Millston Road and Green Trees
Road(unsure of the numerical address) said there is a lot of information set forward tonight and she had
the opportunity to meet with Mr. Barnhart the previous Friday and he was gracious enough to give her a
peek at the proposal. She wants to choose her words very carefully noting this is not her genre and she
appreciates the fact that elected officials are up-to-date on the various policies and procedures. This
particular project greatly impacts her property in a variety of ways. First, she has been neighbors with the
Jacobs Family for close to 40 years, and the property she lives on is 83 years old so they've had a pretty
good homesteading run. In reference to the neighbors having no issues with the proposal, she thinks they
are putting words in their mouths because Friday was her first real peek at the issues. There are about
five points she'd like to bring up in no particular order. Ms. Burwell said the Line Mr. Barnhart explained
to her on Friday, it's very clear that Line A is the line that is favored by herself,because the impact of
Line C would really impact her property at 1125 Millston Road,which is a separate property with two
additional lots and is a caretaker's home. Likewise, moving to the Tanager side,again she is greatly
affected by Lots 6, 3, 2 and 1 which in order to be implemented would all need a variance. She asks
herself if that is the normal procedure to go ahead and give a variance and has done some exploration of
the home at 1075 Millston which was added to her house when they made a friendly lot line adjustment.
She is concerned that they're changing the rules and she is not familiar with the old rule or the new rule,
but it's important that she is involved with that rule. Over on Green Trees, she has a vacant lot which will
be impacted by Line B and Line C, so that is why Line A is a critical factor in the decision of plotting the
development. She said it may be a wiser decision to make it a smaller, less dense development from a
standpoint of vegetation,trees, wetland and environment, and these lines are greatly impacting what has
already been in place longer than Ms. Burwell even owned the property. She is also concerned about the
environmental study, how it's going to happen and if there is a tree replacement requirement beyond the
75 feet from the lake, and who monitors this. She noted the traffic on 15/Shoreline Drive is of great
concern to her as she watches the lots,which become lakeshore lots with the added variances and she
mentioned at the last Planning Commission meeting there are many interesting traffic patterns coming up
to her driveway. This included an accident last Tuesday in which there was a diabetic reaction and a
person went right up into her trees during rush hour and that was a day after the fatality accident right off
Heritage Lane and noted they had talked about people walking. She said she has a dock and walks across
15 and she has a much bigger pad from her driveway to her dock than the Jacobs and she doesn't know
how that will work but she has a serious concern, as she does about 15 going around and how Lakeshore
Marina hasn't had a fatality, she does not understand. She is interesting how the turn lanes would impact
both the East and the West and would take issue with the County's assessment of that because she has
seen and experienced the danger zone of crossing 15 and it is a problem that needs to be worked out. Ms.
Burwell said at this point,the biggest issue for her is Line A and Line B impact her property greatly and
would completely change the way her son would want to build a house and noted she has been there
before the lines were drawn. She asked the Council to consider that very carefully and she thinks it needs
more study. Her last point,which has nothing to do with this property in particular but is an issue she
feels strongly about and brought up at the Planning Commission, is regarding the fire that affected the
Davis Family on Wayzata Bay. Ms. Burwell is very interested in the entire area, including her home and
how they look at not just sewer and water, but also fire abatement. She noted it is something to be
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considered and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the plot. She would respect that the Council
consider her concerns thoughtfully.
Johnson asked Ms. Burwell if he understands that where the line is going on her property and he
remembers doing a lot line rearrangement.
Ms. Burwell said correct,that is the adjustment line.
Johnson asked where the line is drawn right now what is the structure on the map where the red line
crosses.
Ms. Burwell said that is a rambler-style home built in the 1960's and is the caretaker home.
Johnson noted Ms. Burwell owns it but it's a separate address.
Ms. Burwell said that is correct, when they bought,their property had been proposed for a subdivision
and she and Rod bought it the night before it was to come before the Council. They bought the land but
1075 was retained by Irwin and Alex and the Burwell's always wanted to own it because they put
together the original parcel that the Wells family built and lived on for 25 years. She said if they go up
the driveway there is a greenhouse and up further there was a barn that burned down on which there are
now three converted garages and a chicken coop, and there is also the original caretaker house to the
property. She noted on the map, going out past the tennis court is the Green Trees property,which they
purchased because it was contiguous to their property and the plan has been to give each of their sons a
piece of land for their possible wedding gift,noting they tore the house down after they let the police and
fire department"terrorize"the neighbors. She said no one was very sad to see the house go except the
raccoons and the mice.
Walsh noted in some of her comments regarding variances and changing rules, having those three lots, if
they were ever there become lake lots are really no different than the lots Ms. Burwell herself has, as the
lake lots are combined with the shoreline as well. So by combining those with the shoreline,they also
become lake lots by the same combination, otherwise Ms. Burwell's lots would not be lake lots on the
main lake. He said it is pretty standard par for the course for that kind of issue. He asked to bring up the
plat map and noted where Lot 1 is, if it was Line A,the house would just move up a little bit but is still
there, so moving from Line A to Line C doesn't really change the house right next door to her property it
just changes the houses that are another lot over and another lot over.
Ms. Burwell clarified unless Lot 3 is built first.
Walsh said he's just trying to answer Lot 1 because whether they have Line A or Line C,that house
wouldn't change a whole lot, it may need to move up 20 feet but it would still be there. Whether the Line
changes isn't going to affect Ms. Burwell's house very differently,there will just be another house over a
hundred yards or so and another house a hundred yards beyond that. He said she probably won't even see
those houses, he just wanted to react to the lines changing and impacting. He noted the Lines up at the
top, assuming that proposed Line B is the Tanager lake ALS, and that line is just set by the lake and is a
hard line already.
Ms. Burwell said she is now aware that the Tanager lake line is based on the main house rather than the
1075 Millston Road house.
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Walsh said that's because the neighboring property is the main house. He noted the lakeshore setback is
always to the neighbors' house.
Barnhart asked to avoid some confusion and said the ASL of Tanager is based upon the existing Burwell
house on the right and the vacant lot on the left.
Walsh asked if the vacant lot is the 75 foot setback.
Barnhart replied the vacant lot would be based on 1700 Shoreline and Tiffany's house.
Walsh said that is a defined line,the Council isn't attempting to say it's a line that should be created
because of any hardship. The line they are really talking about is Line A and Line C. He was trying to
make the point that changing from Line A to Line C doesn't change a whole lot of regarding what is built
next to Ms. Burwell.
Ms. Burwell said she understands Line B and asked if it's just assumed that a variance will be granted to
Lot 6.
Barnhart responded the goal with Line B is to avoid the need for a variance by establishing the average
lakeshore setback at the time of platting for the initial construction,therefore,no,Lot 6 would not need a
variance unless they wanted to go in front or lake-ward of that line and which Staff would recommend no.
Crosby asked Barnhart, compared to the caretaker's house, where would these three proposed homes line
up visually.
Barnhart replied above the caretaker home on the aerial map.
Crosby asked if they'd lie to the North of the caretaker home.
Barnhart answered the marsh is directly across from the caretaker home and the homes would need to be
above the marsh.
Ms. Burwell asked how they are defining the rule with the 75 foot setback that goes into the marsh.
Walsh said there are setbacks for the marsh,noting the setback is 75 feet from the lake and since it's in
the middle of the marsh they can't build there anyways. In that case,they follow the DNR guidelines in
the setbacks from the marsh.
Crosby asked if it's 20 or 30 feet from the marsh.
Barnhart replied the minimum is 20 feet,but the Watershed District may require more. He said the
homes couldn't be built that close,anyway.
Crosby asked how far Line C is from the marsh.
Barnhart said he didn't measure that.
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Rief said from here to there(noting two points on the map) is a 40 foot buffer.
Crosby said from Line C, it looks like the narrowest is Lot 2.
Rief said it looks like it is approximately a 40 foot buffer from the wetland.
Johnson clarified it will be whatever is farther.
Walsh said if they follow the rules regardless,they must be at a minimum of 30 feet and if they want
more they can have more yard space in the back and they can design that. He noted they follow the
Watershed rules because they are the water experts, noting the City doesn't come up with their own rules
for that.
Ms. Burwell asked if the Watershed is in charge of the beavers that are hanging out at Tanager,too.
Walsh laughed and said Tiffany had all her trees torn up,too.
Ms. Burwell said she is glad they brought up trees and said this property and especially the lot line are
large white pines and asked how the requirements, environmental impact and replacement of those trees is
handled.
Walsh noted after 75 feet,there are no rules,they can chop down anything they want. With that being
said, because it will be a development that the Council must agree on,that is why they like for the
neighbors and the developers to talk,because if there are some foliage or tree issues,they can identify
them within the approval.
Ms. Burwell noted Kurt(who is not here tonight)brought up his concern about the trees to the West at the
Planning Commission. She noted she is looking at the trees to the East and the impact of the road to the
East and along Shoreline Drive.
Walsh noted that is the reason these are open forums to make sure the Council can document all of these
things.
Ms. Burwell said at the Planning Commission, some of them live on Heritage Lane.
Walsh noted at least two.
Ms. Burwell stated a concern was brought up regarding the traffic at Heritage Lane and who would've
thought there would be a terrible accident within less than a week. She said as a neighbor she observed
the handling of that and it is a real problem.
Walsh said that entire area with the quick turn right around by the property is...
Johnson said they're only proposing a turn lane from the West, and asked if that is correct.
Barnhart replied Westbound, so a right turn lane.
Walsh said he doesn't think there is any room to do an Eastbound turn and that's the problem.
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Crosby said that is really the one that is needed.
Seals agreed.
Ms. Burwell said exactly.
Walsh said he doesn't know how they'd ever get it and that's the problem.
Johnson said maybe Ms. Burwell could give some of her land.
Ms. Burwell noted that is another question on how it impacts her land.
Walsh said it seems like if they had a turn lane that would be better than it is today for sure.
Ms. Burwell noted it needs a turn lane on both sides.
Walsh said he's seen people slide through into the brick wall.
Ms. Burwell said they've replaced that wall many times and last week was not a good week on Shoreline
Drive as right at the turn lane there was a motorcyclist than ran up into the gray house. She noted she
doesn't need to belabor the fact that traffic is a problem, but she thinks there are some very important
contingencies that need to be reviewed.
Walsh agreed and said everything needs to be looked at including the trees, foliage, everything and it goes
without saying that would be part of it and will take more conversation between Staff,developers and
neighbors to bring all the conversations to the Council.
Johnson noted this is preliminary plat rather than final plat.
Ms. Burwell said she is a citizen and is trying to do her duty and be informative and she knows she's
taken up more than her five minute allotment.
Walsh said that is only for public comment and they have another thirty minutes. He said Seals brought it
up earlier regarding the development from the YMCA land that no one likes to see something wide-open
get developed but things do change and they're not increasing any density, it can't be any more than it is
today. Can they make it work with everyone and accomplish things like sightlines,trees and everything
along those lines at the same time.
Crosby said for"not having concerns from the neighbors,"they've been talking about it for quite a while.
Ms. Burwell said absolutely there are concerns and she is expressing those concerns from her perspective.
She appreciates the fact that these are thoughtful deliberations and that the existing home that has been
there for 83 years needs to be thought of,rules need to be in place and not necessarily just changed to
accommodate. She said the purchase and lot line adjustment that Irwin and Alex and Rod and Barbara
did seven or eight years ago, she noted now they would've probably adjusted it slightly differently but at
that time they didn't realize.
Walsh said hindsight is always 20-20.
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Ms. Burwell said exactly, and she is very much just trying to protect what she has and has had for close to
41 years. She loves the lake, she has no plan to move or tear anything down, except for the central park
area which she tore down and mentioned the critters earlier. She said she thinks the Council gets the drift
of where she's coming from.
Walsh thanked her for her thoughts.
Ms. Burwell said she'd be back.
Mr. Whitten asked to bring up the point that Mayor Walsh noted,that even with Line A there would still
be a house in that location that is adjacent to the Burwell property and the neighbors to the West did not
have any objection to the site plan as shown. He said he thinks that speaks well and he hopes the Council
seriously considers Line C.
Walsh said he'd really like to take away from this evening in terms of the feedback, looking at all the
lines and making sure everyone understands what those lines mean, is to make sure that the developer has
heard the neighbors and if this does continue forward,they have some of those thoughts out there as well.
He said those conversations go two ways.
Mr. Whitten asked if there was a situation before on properties that would have hardships like this one,
where the houses on either side are set way back.
Walsh answered they see them on a pretty consistent basis because there is a lot of lakeshore in Orono.
Johnson noted they can't make their own hardship, either, and this is a new development so one of the
components they must meet is unique to the property that the developer didn't create. He said the
developer is creating the hardship from the existing average lakeshore setback here.
Walsh said if it was one lot it wouldn't be an issue, so what Johnson is saying is by creating a
development,they are creating a hardship because of the lines.
Crosby said to that point,with the property on the West being up on the hill and he knows that area, it
does get a little exaggerated. He'd like to talk with the neighbors and meet in the middle,perhaps there
aren't three lots there, but instead two which are pushed slightly back but not as far back as Line A.
Walsh said it would be interesting because Kurt is the one to the West,and he'd be curious to hear from
Kurt on a sensible level and talk with him about the trees and foliage issues on his side because he will
potentially be looking down onto those properties and to get his feedback and they may solve part of
those problems by bringing the line down to Line C. He'd like to have that conversation in the next
couple of weeks and perhaps bring it back to the Council again. He noted for Ms.Burwell it won't
change much between Line A and Line C,but for Kurt it might a little bit, maybe not huge but if they can
solve the foliage issues and come to a reasonable solution then everyone is okay with it and understanding
that in the past, including with Judd Dayton's property and on numerous occasions,the Council has put
lines where it made sense. He noted in the end everyone was okay with it, also.
Mr. Whitten said understanding that,they should ask that the project be tabled at this point. He thanked
the Council.
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Printup moved, Seals seconded,to table consideration of LA19-000048—Timothy Whitten O/B/0
Irwin Jacobs 2018 Rev Trust, 1700 Shoreline Drive Preliminary Plat—Resolution. VOTE: Ayes 5,
Nays 0.
Seals said prior to this one coming up again, she will reach out to the residents, and asked if Barnhart
wants to come with her to walk the property because honestly,there is a lot going on in this situation.
She said the property is such a fishbowl, no matter what the Council ends up doing, people will think it's
crazy that they put all those houses there. She'd like to make sure they get it right.
Barnhart said yes, he'd be happy to walk with her.
Walsh noted he'd like to go with at the same time.
Barnhart stated he could take two at a time.
Crosby said perhaps he could do two tours because he'd also like to see it.
Mayor Walsh recessed the meeting at 7:36 p.m. The meeting was reconvened at 7:43 p.m.
16. LA19-000065—CITY OF ORONO TEXT AMENDMENT RELATED TO SUBDIVISIONS
Barnhart reminded the Council this proposed text amendment was brought before them in early August
and at the time the Council wanted time to review it.He noted he provided some confusing drafts that
they wanted to review more clearly and he hopes they were able to do that. At this stage, Staff is
recommending approval of a text amendment that would regulate or redefine the subdivision process. It
would clarify what they're trying to do,how they're trying to achieve it and also clarify the code in terms
of making sure definitions match across the zoning and subdivision code and that the ordinances are
consistent with state statute. At the August City Council meeting, Council directed Staff to send this to
area surveyors,the people who do the platting for projects in town. Staff sent it to five surveyors, and the
only comment received was about the unbuildable definition or the definition for dry buildable. The only
change proposed in terms of dry buildable definition is to make it consistent with the zoning code, so both
zoning and subdivision codes match. He noted the comment received took offense at the 18% limitation
and the argument was in some lots when you grade a walkout basement,the side hills to that area could
be 22-22.5%and therefore would not be dry buildable. While that may be the case,Barnhart said they
don't calculate dry buildable at the time of building permit,it is calculated at the time of plat creation and
certainly in the subdivision code that is the only time they do it. He doesn't anticipate any issues there
and are not changing anything in practice, it's just making sure they match. Staff recommends the
changes as proposed.
Johnson asked if the definitions on screen already exist in both the zoning and the subdivision.
Barnhart said those are the definitions in the zoning ordinance and in the subdivision code for the same
thing. He provided the Council with the email chain with Mark and noted his issue was the 18%and he
felt that was excessive. Staff does not recommend a departure from that,there is a magic to that 18%and
they only calculate it at the time of subdivision. He said the Council should keep in mind the dry
buildable intent is to establish an area where they could reasonably put in a house or septic system and if
there are steep 18%slopes,there is quite a bit of work necessary and likely with vegetation in that area
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they will need to clear cut a larger area to accommodate that grading issue. He thinks this is the reason
the 18%limitation is there and why dry buildable is so important.
Johnson asked what Barnhart's concern is with utilizing 22.5.
Barnhart replied he doesn't have any information to suggest that it is too much or too little, he hasn't done
the analysis. He thinks 18%is where they should go.
Johnson noted to do a walk out basement, it's typical to have 22.5%grade.
Barnhart said he doesn't know if it's typical, it can happen, and he doesn't know what typical is.
Johnson said perhaps it's reasonable.
Barnhart clarified he doesn't believe he has any information to suggest that they depart from 18%.
Crosby said not to waver from Barnhart's point, but if there isn't an argument to not look at it or look into
it, or the difference,why wouldn't they.
Barnhart said other than one developer or surveyor saying he has an issue in this one isolated situation, he
needs more to just open up the entire code and dig into every single standard.
Johnson asked of the five surveyors Barnhart sent it to, how many responses he received from the
surveyors.
Barnhart replied he got one response.
Johnson noted it's 100%of their response. He noted the response said a typical walkout house drops 9
feet in 40 feet,which is 22.5% slope. Johnson said if you think about a walkout and that is 22.5%slope,
it seems reasonable to him to count up to 22.5%and asked what they are guarding against by using the
potentially arbitrary number of 18%.
Barnhart responded the 18%has been there since before they started and he's unsure what started it. He
said to keep in mind they don't do dry buildable calculations at the time of building permit, and they've
never used the calculation at a walkout basement.
Johnson said when someone is under the zoning side, if they purchase a vacant lot,the City would
exclude any slopes or bluffs over 18%in the calculation dry buildable for how much hardcover they can
have,as an example.
Barnhart said he's doesn't know if hardcover excludes dry buildable,but the City would in theory use the
dry buildable calculation to determine the lot size when looking at the dry lot area variance,for example.
Walsh asked if people have the opportunity to grade the area if it was 22%to bring it to 18%to get more
dry buildable.
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Barnhart said if this is an issue the Council would like him to dig into, he certainly can. He thought he
recalled a regulation against grading of steep slopes and some protections and definitions of a steep slope,
which may be 18%.
Johnson said he'd like to look into it and they can always hold that piece open and clean up the rest.
Walsh said they could just approve it,get all the information and then amend it because then at least the
whole thing is approved versus if they don't put it in there,the Council cannot approve it.
Barnhart responded that is true.
Walsh said at least there would be a standard until the Council either believes the standard is true, as he
agrees if it's always been that way it's not a reason to keep it, or it may be the best number...he doesn't
know. He'd rather approve it if there are no other issues and they can amend later but at least it's on
record that it's set and it is consistent for the time being.
Crosby would like to set a time frame that the Council for re-address the issue in the next Council
meeting.
Walsh asked Barnhart if it's reasonable to come back in the next Council meeting.
Barnhart replied probably not, but he could certainly do it by the first meeting in October.
Walsh agreed to look at it in the first meeting in October.
Barnhart noted there are other projects waiting on approval of this and he'd like to walk through the rest
to make sure there aren't any other issues he should address. He asked if anything else jumped out at the
Council as issues that need to be corrected or any questions on.
Walsh noted the Planning Commission went through it pretty well and he doesn't have anything.
The Councilmembers agreed.
Johnson said he thinks it's a great practice to shoot it out to people doing this kind of work, it is really
good and he spoke with Mark.He noted Mark is happy that the City is reaching out and the two times
they've brought something to him, he has brought things to the table that the City didn't think of.
The Council agreed.
Walsh agreed and said, especially people that are in it every day, and clarified it's not that Barnhart isn't
doing it every day because he is,too.
Printup moved, Seals seconded,to approve La19-000065—City of Orono Text Amendment Related
To Subdivisions.VOTE: Ayes 4,Nays 1(Crosby).
Walsh asked Barnhart to come back in October with specific items for the Council to understand what
decision they're making and why.
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Barnhart agreed he would do that.
MAYORJCOUNCIL REPORT
Crosby delivered a blue line flag supporting police officers to the Orono Police Chief and the City needs
to make a motion to allow the City to fly a blue line flag,but he also wants to include a possible red line
flag to support firefighters in the area.
Crosby moved, Seals seconded,to allow the City to fly a blue line flag and a red line flag to support
police and firefighters in the area. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
Johnson had his four nieces and nephews start at Orono schools this year from Wayzata schools and they
were excited. He noted it was quite a process the first couple days of school with traffic,but it is good to
have them a Spartan.
Seals is also excited that the kids are back in school for personal reasons and is solo Tuesday, Thursday
and every other Friday. She is excited Orono did that,noting some other schools did not and she has no
problem saying it's disappointing because those same schools and teachers are probably out at Target and
out at restaurants where they have no problem and she does not think that's okay. She gave big kudos to
not only Orono but also West Tonka as they're both in. She noted a Facebook site called something like
Spartans 278 and every one of the parents have posted that their kids, even with all the restrictions and
rules are very happy to be back in school. It reinforces the benefits of people being with people are far
more than the crazy things they're doing. She also noted some talk over email regarding whether the City
does certain events or not, and Seals thinks they need to figure out a way to do a Christmas Tree Lighting
or other things like that. She said there are lots of smart people who can help figure it out and she'd like
to tell Staff to figure out a good way to do it. She also noted she thinks the Council and Mayor did a good
job in making sure Orono's businesses and restaurants had outdoor seating and were covered. Her
question is: fast-forward a week or a month and it's going to be cold...what can the City do to help them.
She gets a little worried as she doesn't want any of them to shut down.
Walsh noted it's supposed to be high of 55 degrees and when they hit that temperature, people don't want
to eat outside.
Seals agreed and asked how the City can help them. She's seen people go into restaurants, however it's
not as many as before.
Walsh noted they can't change the rules and they've also had conversations with Correy and all of the
Cities around here agreed that Correy will not be the enforcer of the rules, if the Governor wants to put
the rules in place,he can go enforce them. He noted the City will not be the enforcer of the rules either
for that stuff.
Rief said one of the early discussions with Gary at the Narrows was the tent component, noting they do
have a tent permit and then James has to do an inspection to make sure all those requirements are met and
he thinks if that is something the City wants to discuss with them they can reach out.
Seals said she's open to anything.
Walsh noted Crosby has been talking with them.
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Crosby said anything to help them would be good and he thinks they should impress upon their citizens to
contact legislators and start barking, because these lockdowns can't last...
Walsh said they need to start barking at the Governor as the legislators don't get any say.
Crosby agreed.
Seals wondered if the Governor will listen,though, because he tends to make up his own rules. She noted
she can't go visit her kid at school to bring him anything but the Governor can roam freely in schools no
big deal and it doesn't make any sense.
Crosby said yes,there's no logic to it.
Seals said in summary,whatever they can do to support the businesses,she'd like to think creatively, even
about winter and figure it out. She noted it may not be easy but she wants to let businesses know the City
is on board to help them. She said it makes her sad when businesses shut down.
Crosby stated there must be a point during these lockdowns where the good people just say"Enough. I'm
done with this, I'm going back to my life and we're going to live normally."
Printup noted Friday was a somber day as it was 9/11 and in Mound they have a really neat granite
sculpture and he and his daughter have gone out there for the last 10-11 years to remember. He asked
people to be careful with all of the small kids running around with school and buses.
Walsh said he's very glad his kids are back in school and the kids are happy too, noting they want to be
there more and don't like some of the restrictions like lunch at their desk and not seeing friends. He said
for the residents he had an odd situation during a dog walk and saw a little baby golden lab puppy out in a
neighbor's yard and they always see the dog and it has a collar on so it can't leave the yard. He noted a
car stopped and they watched for about a minute as the person got out and went into the yard to pet the
dog and were looking at its collar. He said it was going to be a dog snatch and they just sat and stared at
the lady as the people weren't home. He said they didn't have phones with them an couldn't take a
picture but he wants the public to be aware as it's not the first time he's seen people driving slowly
around expensive young dogs.
Johnson received a call from one of the residents of Stone Bay regarding the water bill and had a very
interesting conversation. He noted there is some sort of rumor that the City is using water to pay for other
things than water. When Johnson explained to the person that what they've done is provide visibility of
the actual cost of water, and that the City has been supplementing through the General Fund,he said this
is the first time people are seeing it and capturing all the costs related to water and what water really
costs. He said he stood behind the decision then and he still thinks it's the right decision,otherwise it
would be going into the General Fund and the resident's taxes would be going up to pay for water. He
said it's going to come one way or the other and this is the first time people are seeing the real cost of
water.
Walsh had a conversation with another resident about all of the things the City is doing and reminded the
person in the last six years the City has paid$7 million dollars of debt off and did all of it without raising
any taxes.
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, September 14,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Crosby also noted the Met Council has been raising their prices by 30%per year.
Printup said that was something suggested for the future newsletter: to break down what recycling costs,
Met Council costs, and other outside forces that are dictating the City.
Rief said they're starting the editing process now and the next newsletter would be out in October.
Printup asked if they could get something in Public Works or Finance.
CITY ADMINISTRATOR REPORT
17. COVID-19 CARES ACT EXPENDITURES UPDATE
Rief said last week they did the first reporting for the CARES Act Funding and noted the City received
$610,407 and they are quite restricted on how that can be used. The City received the money on July 29'
2020 and it allows them to account for any expenditures since March 1, 2020. He gave an overview of
what has already been spent and put in for FEMA(Federal Emergency Management Agency). Through
approximately May 31,2020 on non-wage expenses,the City had about$4,400 and since then there has
been an additional $17,000 in total expenditures. This component is important based on the next Council
action. Cleaning equipment on order($4,300),Biohazard masks($31,000), COVID-19 sick and overtime
to cover shifts(approximately$30,000)—Rief noted it probably won't be that much but there have been
14 employees who've been out based on exposures and there is a line item in the pay called"COVID
Sick"because law requires them to provide up to two weeks and it allows them to track those
expenditures on lost work time, etcetera. He noted additional PPE is on order and front desk OSHA
requirements for two personnel because of the proximity issue; Part of the CARES Act money allows
them to make modifications to work spaces to meet those requirements (projected at$55,000). Improved
air handling/filtration for City buildings ($6,000)is already in process;they are adding UV lighting and
filtration systems at City Hall and changed how the HVAC works. The Orono Cares for Schools Grant is
looking to initially start with$300,000. Total current expenses are about$21,000 with $17,000 in
CARES money with projected expenses of$147,000 plus the$300,000 grant program leaves the City
with about$145,000 in contingent funds. He noted any of the money they don't spend goes back to the
County and the County is then required to allocate it back to Hennepin County Medical Center. He noted
he heard some concerns regarding funding on the Orono schools side and he figured out a way to divvy it
out equally to both the two major schools districts of West Tonka and Orono and in the next Council
action they can discuss it based on the percent of property tax base in the community.
Crosby asked where those dollars would be for the schools.
Rief said Orono schools only received$98,000 in COVID-19 funding. The way they worked their
funding and why it became a shock to him was based on the amount of Title students (disabled, low-
income, etcetera). When they classified that, because of the affluency of most of the Orono school
district, it negatively impacted the amount of dollars they received. He noted Saint Michael received
$650,000, West Tonka received somewhere in the$4-500,000 range and Rief was trying to be as fair as
possible.
Seals asked if Mound or Minnetrista are donating any of their CARES Funds.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, September 14,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Rief said they are not and he had a discussion with Mound and they have worked up a business program
and are working to reallocate that money to their businesses. He said it was very challenging and he's not
sure how they went with that. Rief noted the hardest thing is trying to figure out how to keep it in the
community and make an impact and the guidance changes continually so he's a little worried about
what's going to happen a year from now when they get a data practice request on how they spent the
CARES Act money. He knows PPE is legitimate and the City wants to make it as legitimate as possible
so that the spotlight doesn't shine on them in the future.
Crosby asked what dollars could they get to local businesses affected by the shutdown that would feasibly
pass the test.
Rief said some of it is loans,grants and it's a complicated process almost like an SBA loan,you must
ensure you're not being biased one way or the other and have certain criteria to exclude or include. It
became enough that Rief didn't know they had the Staff to do that.
Crosby understands and said it's too bad they can't forward some of the relief on to the local businesses
that have had to shut down or minimize capacity.
Rief said they have $145,000 remaining but have two months to spend it.
Walsh said whatever they don't spend,they have one Council meeting before that time where they would
vote to allocate the rest of those funds to the schools or there is zero balance left.
18. ORONO CARES FOR SCHOOLS GRANT PROGRAM
Rief said, as mentioned in the previous item, the funding is important to the schools and the schools and
Rief met with the County Manager and they were highly encouraging Cities to work with the schools. He
said they are allowed to transfer their funds over to another governmental agency and they think trying to
keep the tax dollars in the local area as much as possible is the right thing to do. Rief decided to only
allocate the money to districts that have more than 5%of the Orono tax base,which essentially left West
Tonka(35.19%of money allocated)and Orono(64.81%of money allocated) School Districts. Rief is
making a recommendation of$300,000 dedicated to the program. Rief's guidance to the school districts
are to provide the City with only with items that meet the medical,public health expenses and compliance
with public health measures components,as those are the easiest to justify to the auditor. The agreement
approved tonight for the school districts ensures that they are giving the City all the paperwork, invoices,
checks and expenditures so when the auditors ask the City how they managed the funding, it's the same
way the City would manage it. Rief encouraged the districts to submit everything they have, for example,
if they have$500,000 in expenditures and the City is able to reallocate the rest of the$145,000 they can
push that out without having to do too much more. Rief is asking for the allocation of$300,000 tonight
and if the districts had any additional expenses between now and October 23,2020,the City can vet that
before the November 9, 2020 Council Meeting(which is the last chance to spend the money).
Attorney Mattick said it's a very straightforward agreement,noting he was worried about it at first,but
candidly with all the COVID stuff,the guidance is changing. His concern is once they pledge to a
community or school and the money has been spent, if it was determined to be eligible in September but
not eligible in October,the City would be stuck. He said they've tried to stay on top of it and thinks
they're good to go. Under current guidance he feels comfortable with that but they're still getting updates
tonight on some of those things. As they sit,he thinks they're fine.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, September 14,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Printup moved, Seals seconded to establish a program and give Dustin Ref the ability to distribute
funds according to that program,to approve the agreements and commit the money. VOTE: Ayes
5,Nays 0.
19. REPLACEMENT OF RESCUE EXTRICATION EQUIPMENT
Rief said in light of COVID-19 and everything else,the City of Long Lake opened their emergency
operations center and Long Lake Fire Chief James Van Eyll has been in charge of it,noting they have
monitored his hours and the amount of time he's taken and determined they can qualify some of his hours
as eligible for CARES Act Funding. The proposal from Long Lake Fire is instead of refunding Orono the
money,they felt it was a better idea to tackle some of the capital things they need as it's already funded,
noting it's coming from the Operational Budget rather than the normal Capital stream.
James said Ryan Gonzer who is very good with extrication and did a lot of the extrication stuff up at BIR
for the past 5-6 years, identified a deficiency at Station No. 1 with some of their extrication equipment.
Mr. Gonzer came to James and pointed it out and they looked at how they could get funding to take care
of the deficiency. With COVID-19,the CARES Act money will reimburse some of Van Eyll's salary and
said hopefully it would not change so they will wait to purchase these items until they know the funding
is available. At the end of the year as they look at their books if they're below budget, it gets divvied out
to the contract Cities. His proposal is to use some of those funds,just under$24,000 for brand new
extrication equipment,and they have a bead on some demo equipment that would be slightly used but
would save a few dollars.
Rief said one caveat that came up was an email from the League of Minnesota Cities stating they are
scrutinizing how Cities can actually use the CARES Funding for wages and he would suggest modifying
the recommended action on the CARES Act Funding to make sure that it's still legal closer to the end of
the year. As long as it's still legal at the point of purchase, Rief feels comfortable moving forward with it
and so do the other City Administrators.
James said they've been tracking everything, so anytime he has a meeting directly related to COVID-19
or training, etcetera, it is marked in a spreadsheet and forwarded on to the accounting department.
Crosby asked which trucks this would outfit.
James said it would take the place of the centurion equipment on Rescue 12.
Seals asked if the$23,000-and-change is the part Orono pays or if they're paying a portion of that.
Van Eyll said Orono would be paying a portion.
Seals noted she'd be in support of paying it regardless of CARES because she talked to a few fireman and
it sounds like these are the battery operated ones rather than the older ones with cables and can be
problematic. To her it seems like an inexpensive solution.
Crosby noted he got to run carrying the major tools on a head-on collision on Highway 12 and he said it's
not easy in boots and the equipment is heavy.
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MINUTES OF THE
ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Monday, September 14,2020
6:00 o'clock p.m.
Crosby moved to approve the Capital Expenditure purchase for the Rescue Extrication Equipment in the
amount of$23,750 and if the City gets paid back that is wonderful.
Seals said she seconds it and asked if they need an amendment to say"regardless"of getting paid back
because she is fine either way.
Van Eyll said he could come back and ask again if things change.
Crosby said he doesn't want to put an amendment in as he doesn't want to give Long Lake a quick out.
He asked if the Council wants the amendment in there for the CARES Act Funding.
Walsh said he thinks it makes sense as it protects the City.
Crosby moved,Johnson seconded,to approve the Capital Expenditure purchase for the Rescue
Extrication Equipment in the amount of$23,750 with the caveat of the CARES Act Funding.
VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
ADJOURNMENT
Walsh moved, Crosby seconded,to close the Orono City Council meeting and go into a closed
session at 8:32 p.m. as permitted by §13D.05, Subd. 3(a),to evaluate the performance of the
City Administrator Dustin Rief. VOTE: Ayes 5,Nays 0.
Johnson moved,Printup seconded,to open the Orono City Council meeting at 10:08 p.m.
Johnson moved,Printup seconded,to adjourn the Orono City Council meeting at 10:08 p.m.
ATT T:
D) D2122
na Carlson,City Clerk Dennis Walsh,Mayor
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