HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-05-1998 Park Commission Minutes ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR JANUARY 5, 1998
ATTENDANCE
The Park Commission met on the above mentioned date with the following members
present: Chair Susan Wilson, Commissioners Sherokee Ilse, Andrew McDermott, James
White, Van Erickson, and Peter Welles. Representing Staff were Public Service Director
Greg Gappa and Recorder Sherry Frost. Chair Wilson called the meeting to order at 7:20
p.m.
(#1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF DECEMBER 2, 1997 MEETING
The following changes were made:
Under#2A, 2nd paragraph, the actual numbers signifying the increases were
added.
Under#2D, Summit Beach Fishing Piers, 4th paragraph, last sentence was
deleted. The motion was changed to recommend the Commission "does not
install...and also monitor.."
Under#4, top of page 8, White clarified that residents are generally happy with
their community when it is only 20% developed and begin to feel unhappy with
the community when it becomes 70% developed.
Under#5, Bike Trails and all reference to trails is changed to "routes". The
paragraph referencing South Brown Road on same page was changed to reflect
that the road "should have" a widened shoulder. The report was also changed to
' reflect that a "portion of North Shore Drive has a widened shoulder and the
remainder should also be widened to become a bike route.
The park assignment and sub-committee list was updated.
Wilson asked Gappa if he had contacted the developer of Dickey Park regarding the
encroachments. Gappa said he has not yet done so. Wilson felt this should be done now.
McDermott moved, Welles seconded, to approve the Minutes of the December 2, 1997
Park Commission meeting as amended. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
(#2) REVIEW OF COMMITTEE STRUCTURE
David Beal was recognized for his contribution on the Park Commission. The
Commission decided to plant a tree in Antoine Park in his honor.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#2 Committee Structure - Continued)
Ilse moved, McDermott seconded, to approve planting a tree recognizing David Beal's
contribution to the Park Commission. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
The Park Commission will send a card to Beal. Gappa will see that the City recognizes
Beal's contributions as well.
Wilson emphasized the need to maintain contact with the neighbors of Saga Hill. She
noted that this park will require attention in the future regarding some development.
Antoine, Summit Beach, and Sandy Beach will be assigned to the new member of the
Park Commission replacing Beal when he/she is named.
The park assignments, including changes, are as follows:
Antoine - Casco Pt Beach, Park& Ice Rink - White
Crystal Bay - Wilson, Ilse Dickey - Erickson
French Creek - Wilson Hackberry - Erickson
Highwood - Welles Lee Carlson Ballfields - Erickson
Lowry Woods - Wilson Livingston Tower - McDermott
Lydiard Beach - McDermott Navarre - McDermott
Saga Hill - Welles, Ilse Orono Golf Course - Welles �
Sandy Beach - Summit Beach -
Bederwood - Ilse Highway 12 Park Corridor- Erickson
Unassigned: Chevy, Chase, Pleasant View, Cygnet
The sub-committees are as follows:
Open Space - McDermott, Welles, Wilson (Ilse-sub)
Bike Routes - Erickson, Welles, Wilson
Long Term Funding - White, Ilse
Tree Preservation - Ilse, Wilson
Dickey Park- Ilse, Erickson, McDermott
Highway 12 -Erickson
Winter Recreation - Wilson, Welles (Erickson-sub)
Park Inventory and Master Plan - McDermott, Ilse
Spring Hill - Welles, Wilson, McDermott
An updated list will be sent to all members of the Park Commission.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#3) BIKE ROUTES
A. FINALIZED REPORT - ERICKSON
McDermott questioned how the information provided by Gappa regarding bike
route road standards will affect the routes as designated. Gappa acknowledged
that many of the routes do not meet the standards.
B. NEW MAPS - ERICKSON
Erickson indicated that the corrected maps are not yet color coded.
C. WIDE SHOULDER AND DESIGNATED BIKE ROUTE
REQUIREMENTS - GAPPA
Wilson asked for discussion regarding the requirements to determine whether any
changes would be required to the bike routes.
Gappa referenced page 4(4) in the packet where the standard for a typical bike
route is from a minimum of 4' to 10'. He indicated that all bike routes should be
to this standard.
Wilson asked about bike routes with no shoulders. Gappa said alot of these type
of bike routes are on low traveled roadways in other communities but is not the
case in Orono. Wilson asked how this applies to Fox Street. Gappa noted the
difficulty in obtaining a continuous network for signage. He feels the standard
should be reached before any signage is added.
Welles noted that there is a distinction between experienced and average bike
riders and the bike routes should be geared to the average bike rider.
Wilson indicated that the standards pose a problem to the bike routes currently
designated as the Commission would not want to see some of the routes widened
as it would change the character and beauty of the roads.
Discussion of this problem resulted in the Commission decided not to recommend
signage on what had been designated bike routes due to the majority being major
arterial roadways. Watertown Road was cited as being problematic. Gappa noted
the lack of a continuous route as well, though Watertown Road does connect to
other routes via Old Crystal Bay Road bike route.
Gappa noted that the standards are not regulated by State law but are an accepted
standard.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD �N JANUARY 5, 1998
(#3 Bike Routes - Continusd)
The Commissioners looked at the question of whether they should encourage bike
riding on roads that da not meet the standard. The thought had been that the
signage would warn drivers of bike riders on the roadways, while the oe�tcome may
be that the signs may encourage bike riders to ride on roads that do not meet the
standards for such use. Gapga noted that bike riders will find their own preferred
routes without the use of signage.
The use of"Designated Bike Routes" was eliminated.
White said he was interested in wh�ther the City would take the stance of
maintaining the roads as they are, i.e. Fox Street. Oppositipn to widening such
roads was noted. Gappa noted the conflict with keeping seenie roadways and
providing bike routes on them. While these bike routes are desirable, they should
not be marked as such.
The Commission decided to maintain a list of these roads that are desirable for
designated bike rou#es if future consideration is given to changing the roads
themsetves. The conflict remains that the Cotnmissian does not want to see these
particular roads widened. The list could be maintain€d with the i�3ea that the desire
is for narrow rc�ads with slow speeds.
Welles suggested the use of signage cautioning drivers to bicyclis#s. Gappa said
caution signs could be installed.
Welles moved, McDermott seconded, to suggest designated bike routes be posted
with signage cautioning drivers to heavy hicyclist traffic.
Gappa again noted the problem with roads not up to stantiard. Wilson said the
heavier traveled roads would be recommended for meeting standards. This,
however, would obligate the City to place signage on aI1 of the bike routes
cautionin�, matorists of bicyclists. Wilson felt the Commission should determine
where they prefer the bike routes and send that list to the Cauncil for
determination when subdivisions arise for development and possihle widening of
roadways.
Welles indicated that the motion would acknowledge those roads that are heavily
traveled by bike riders and encourage the need for signage to warn drivers.
Question arose of signage for all bike routes. Gappa felt more thought should be
given to the idea of designated bike routes and signage.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#3 Bike Routes - Continued)
McDermott felt the list of bike routes with separated trails and widened shoulders
should be maintained only. Wilson felt it was the job of the Commission to flag
bike routes and leave the determination up to the City whether to add cautionary
signs on bike routes before these roads meet the standards.
Wilson suggested the changes be made to the bike trail maps, reviewed, and a
recommendation made at that time to enable the Commission to see the maps in
their final form. Ilse asked that the changes be reflected in the master plan.
Ilse and McDermott suggested the motion be tabled. Wilson disagreed. Welles
felt the speeds should be kept at a minimum and signage encouraged.
The third categary was changed to "Popular Bike Routes" in order to maintain the
list while not designating the roads for widening.
Erickson will provide updated list and map for all Commissioners. Bike Routes
will be discussed again at the February meeting. Wilson will discuss this topic
with Mayor Jabbour and Council Member Flint prior to that meeting to get their
feed back.
The motion was withdrawn.
(#4) SKETCH PLAN (CARPENTER PROPERTY) - GAPPA
Gappa presented a sketch of the plan for the Carpenter Property. He indicated it appears
that the layout of 8 lots is problematic and will most likely result in a lower number of
lots. The Planning Commission will review the sketch plan at their January meeting.
The bike route is currently located on the opposite side of the road from the Carpenter
property. Wilson said she had been opposed to the route location on that side of the road
as the route has to ultimately end up on the same side as the Carpenter property. It is
desired that the route will be added to the Hennepin Parks system. The telephone poles
are located on the west side (Carpenter side), but it was felt that this was not a problem.
Gappa did believe it would cost more to build the route on the Carpenter side. Wilson
noted, however, there were 8 homes that would be affected on the east side while only
three on the west side. White indicated a four-way stop might be necessary; Gappa
agreed.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#4 Carpenter Property Sketch Plan - Continued)
Discussion was held regarding the retaining walls. The fence currently located on the
property could be placed on top of the retaining walls. The stone gates can be moved.
McDermott asked about the pond. Welles said the route could come back in from the
pond. Wilson voiced opposition to retaining walls suggesting the grade be taken down.
She thought lilac bushes would be attractive. Gappa said some retaining walls would be
necessary. Wilson questioned whether the use of retaining walls would hinder the rural
character of the area. Erickson questioned whether the new large homes would also
affect the rural feel.
Wilson asked if any of the Commissioners were interested in taking land for a buffer on
the lake. Problems with access, marshy conditions, and acquiring lakeshore were noted.
It was determined that with the lineal footage on Old Crystal Bay Road, a width of about
40' could be obtained. A bike route would require between 20-30'. Welles felt it would
make sense to take the minimal amount of land and the remainder in cash. If land was
taken for buffering only, less land would be required.
The current trail on the east side has been cleared and gravel has been added. There are
several large trees on this side. The terrain is better for a bike route on the west side.
Wilson suggested recommending the bike route for the west side, even though the bike
route currently exists on the east side. If the Council determines they do not desire a
change to the bike route, she suggested money be taken in lieu of land for park
dedication. The Park Commission would like to see the bike route be completed to
Noerenberg Park and is concerned with completion of the bike route on the east side due
to the location of existing homes.
McDermott felt the bike route could cross to the west side in another area and preferred
cash be taken for park dedication. Wilson indicated this scenario would cause the bike
route to cross the roadway twice. Wilson voiced concern with being able to complete the
trail to Noerenberg if this land was not taken for park dedication. Gappa agreed that it is
important for the trail to continue and be completed.
Welles moved, Ilse seconded, to recommend park dedication be taken in the minimum
amount of land necessary for the design of a bike route to maintain the character of the
property with the remainder taken in cash.
Welles amended his motion to recommend that as the Planning Commission evaluates the
project, they consider taking land for a bike route and review the problem with continuing
the current bike route on the east side owned by the City. The Park Commission needs to
analyze whether the need is shown for the trail on the west side.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#4 Carpenter Property Sketch Plan - Continued)
Wilson agreed that the route location cannot be determined at this time. McDermott said
the entire roadway should be reviewed in order to make the decision.
The Park Commission would like to recommend the consideration of whether the route
would be more appropriate on the west side before any decision is made due to the
possible problems existing for a bike route on the east side. All Commissioners agreed.
(#5) REPORT OF WHITEHEAD PARK DEDICATION - GAPPA
Gappa reported that the park dedication for the two-lot Whitehead subdivision was
$7,000.
(A short recess occurred.)
(#6) REVIEW AND AMEND TWO YEAR PLAN
It was noted that the master plan is basically completed and will be presented this spring
to the Council. It will be reviewed with Mayor Jabbour.
Gappa reported that the development is the northern portion of Saga Hill is not being
pursued at this time. The developer is in the process of determining the economics of
developing the southern portion. Wilson reported that the Park Commission had not
received all vital information when the recommendation was made to take money instead
of land for the southern development. The Planning Commission decided to take land
based on the information they were provided. Wilson informed Staff that the Park
Commission needs to be provided with all infarmation in the future in order to make their
recommendations. McDermott asked if the Commission needs to consider access to the
park land. Gappa indicated that they need to wait to determine what development takes
place.
It was reported that the developer of Spring Hill Golf Course is determining whether a
direct agreement can be reached between the County and themselves without involving
the City for construction of the tunnel under County Road 6. No agreement has been
reached.
Gappa reported that the bike route to Baker Park will be completed by the County in
1998. Hennepin Parks is in possession of the plans and are putting together bids at this
time. An agreement for future�naintenance will be necessary, but Hennepin County is
taking over all of the development according to Gappa. Wilson asked that Gappa follow
through to see that the bike route is completed.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#6 Planning - Continued)
Ilse reminded the Commissioners of the spring walk for parks to take place in April. This
is in conjunction with Earth Day and is a nationally promoted activity. The Commission
felt the activity could be a combination of a bike/walk. Ilse will check with other
communities in the area regarding possible involvement.
Erickson suggested the possibility of pledges designated towards specified needs. Ilse
will determine specific requirements for the event for discussion at the February meeting.
The June Park Tour will be scheduled.
Park Development planning was changed to improvement. Antoine and Bederwood were
eliminated from the list. The focus for 1998 will be Dickey Park and the Orono winter
recreation improvements. A proposed skating rink is in planning for the Orono Golf
Course property.
Gappa said the quarterly community communications from the Park Commission can be
included in the spring bulletin. He will determine the deadline for providing information.
It was suggested that the list of parks and facilities be included as well as providing the
names of the members of the Commission. Welles indicated that this information can be
provided to new residents as well. White suggested the use of pictures in the article.
Welles will coordinate the community communications.
(#7) TREE PRESERVATION REPORT - WILSON
The Park Commission is inactive regarding its involvement in tree preservation. The
Planning Commission is working on a moderate ordinance with policy for guidelines. If
more enforcement is required, additional changes can be made at a later date. An
educational brochure on tree preservation will be provided to residents. Wilson
suggested any remarks on the subject to given to Mike Gaffron.
The main thrust of the policy will be in buffering while maintaining the rights of the
private landowner. The policy will provide principles for developers to follow.
(#8) FRIENDS OF PARK AWARD
Ilse suggested the Friends of the Park Award be presented to Amelia Kroeger. She is the
recycling coordinator but is known for her consistent work in picking up in and around
the Stubbs Bay area.
Welles moved, Wilson seconded, to recommend Amelia Kroeger to receive the Friends of
the Park Award for 1997. Vote: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#8 Friends of Park Award - Continued)
Ilse will call and inform Kroeger of the recommendation. Gappa will send a letter to her
and provide the plaque to be presented prior to the March meeting of the Park
Commission at 6:45 p.m. Gappa will also notify the Council of the recommendation.
Wilson voiced the need far a volunteer coordinator for parks. White suggested the
possibility of a retired resident for this position. Wilson asked that Commissioners
consider who may be interested in this position. The position will be advertised in the
spring bulletin. Erickson suggested boy scout troops, girl scout troops, and churches be
contacted for interest in park maintenance. Gappa was asked to continue advertising this
need.
(#9) LUCE LINE REPORT - WILSON
Wilson indicated that the Park Commission needs to be aware of what is taking place
regarding the Luce Line. She reviewed the report she received. She questioned whether
the Commission should appoint a spokesperson to represent the City.
Wilson said the report indicates snowmobiling will be allowed west of Stubbs Bay Road.
The DNR will no longer be grooming cross country trails for skiing. A joint use is being
considered for the harseback trails. It was noted that discharging of firearms is allowed
west of Stubbs Bay. Trail surfacing is being experimented with west of Orono. The
DNR is forming an advisory committee to review parking and rest areas. Wilson
questioned whether the City owned land off McCulley Road might be considered. Gappa
indicated that this is the only site available far snow storage and is also a potential site for
an animal impound facility.
Adopt-a-park program is also continuing and volunteer participation being sought.
McDermott informed Erickson that consideration was given to blacktop the Luce Line.
McDermott had been the only consenting vote for blacktopping. McDermott felt the
Commission should provide a representative to be on the committee. Wilson felt the
residents of Orono prefer the Luce Line for walking and birding activities; biking would
change that use.
Due to the heavy workload of the Commissioners, there was no volunteer to serve on the
committee. White suggested someone from the community be appointed. Erickson
suggested rotating who will attend the meetings.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#10) ORONO GOLF RINK PLANS - WELLES
Welles presented pictures of the golf course and ponds. He suggested the possibility of
expanding the pond for the ice rink and adding onto the pump house for usage as a
warming facility. The ponds currently flood in the spring. A culvert passes underneath
the fairway. Welles asked if it is desired to retain the water from the ponds by adding
boards to contain it. The pond to the north could be expanded toward the pump house
and squared off for an ice rink.
Wilson agreed that the rink needs to be bigger in size than the pond would currently
provide. She would like to see a net added for hockey players as well.
The Commissioners all felt the winter recreation area would be a major draw to the
residents and pond size should be increased.
McDermott asked what the golf course manager felt about this idea. Gappa said this use
has been done in other cities and did not believe it would be a problem. He suggested the
Commissioners meet at the golf course to further discuss options.
Wilson suggested the use of a berm and extending the roof line out from the pump house.
She indicated that she spoke with neighbors of the golf course, who loved the idea. There
is a street light that would provide lighting for the rink and parking area.
Gappa will determine whether any permits are required.
(#11) REVIEW CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS/MAINTENANCE LISTS
A. PRIORITIES FOR 1998
This topic will be discussed at the February meeting. Wilson said ideas for 1998
improvements need to be discussed with Mayor Jabbour.
It was noted that Erickson will be meeting with the residents around Dickey Park
regarding park development. McDermott thought the costs would be higher for
labor than for any equipment. Maintenance of Summit Beach is also planned.
Wilson asked that capital improvements and maintenance lists be provided to
Gappa before the next meeting for distribution.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1998
(#12) NEW BUSINESS
Erickson reported that a group of Orono residents, who live in the Orono School District,
are interested in development of a community recreation center. Funding would most
likely occur through a referendum with request for City participation. He indicated the
center would include running tracks, basketball courts, meeting rooms, etc. Other
community centers have been reviewed.
Erickson said the group would like to make a presentation to the Park Commission and
other park groups for input and feedback. The site being considered is near the ballfields
or behind the Link. Ilse said the site by the Link would meet other needs as well with the
ability to tie in with the school and its pool. McDermott noted that older residents may
want a center that can be used during the day hours as well. McDermott indicated that
while there are needs that are not being meet in the community,this would only involve
half of the residents as the other half will now be paying for the new community center in
Mound.
The Park Commissioners said they were willing to listen to the plan. It will be presented
at the February meeting.
McDermott asked Gappa to continue with the plans to provide signs for beach
regulations.
ADJOURNMENT
Wilson adjourned the meeting at 10:12 p.m.
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� Susan Wilson, Chair
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