HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-03-1997 Park Commission Minutes ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING�
MINUTE5 FOR FEBRUARY 3, 1997
7:Q0.7:30 P.M. - RECEPTION FOR FRIENDS OF THE PARK AVVARD
Susan Wilson recognized the achievements of 3ason Christenson for his provision of
benches in the Clrono parks this past year and the Saga Hill Preservation Society, who
assisted the City in the acquisition of park land. Mayor Jabbour presented the certiticates
awarding Jason Christensan and the Saga Hill Preservation Society as Friends of the Park
for 1996. The Friends of the Park plaque, which includes the names of the new recipients,
was displayed and will hang in the Councit Chambers. Cauncil Members Goetten, Kelley,
and Peterson were atso in attendance.
ATTENDANCE
The Park Comrt�ission met on the above mentioned date with the following members
present: t�cting Chair Susan Wilson, CQmmissioners Sherokee Ilse, David Beal, Andrew
McDermatt, and James White. Representing Staff were Public Services Director Greg
Gappa, City Planner Elizabeth Van Zomeren, and Recorder Sherry Frost. Acting Chair
Wilson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
(#1} APPROVAL OF MINUTES �F JANUARY 1997 MEET�NG
Wilson asked Gappa ta verify the amount of the Park Dedication Fund reflected in the
minutes of the November 4, 1996 Park Commission meeting.
Ilse moved, Beal seconded, to approve the Minutes of the Regular Park Commission
Meeting Qf 3anuary 6, 1997. Ayes 4, Nays 0.
Gappa informed Wilson that the golf course club house opening for winter use has been
reported several times in the newspaper this year.
(Cornmissioner White arrived at this time.)
(#2) SAGA 13ILL ACCESS RECOMA�IENDATION - MEMO AND
ATTAC[�MENTS FR(3M RON M0t3RSE
Wilson recc��nized the contribution made by the Saga Hill Preservation Society in the
acquisition af the park land. She indieated that it was the desire of the City to maintain
the park land as a large parcel.
Gappa reviewed the property location noting the placement of Garden Lane and
Higl�view, unimproved but platted roadways. The park property was identified as a
natural area and general pa�-k area. The 9 acre tax forfeited parcel on the west is
designated for general park use. The eastern portion clase to the ravine is a natural area.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR QROIvTO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#2 - Saga Hill Access - Continued)
Wilson indicated the need for access to #he 61ots on the property and asked the Park
Commission for their recommendation.
McDermott inquired about the property located to the north of Lot l, located parallel to
Wildhurst and al�ng Garden Lane. He questioned if and when future subdivision would
occur and if there is a house on the lat. Patty Affeldt indicated the praperty is currently
for sa1e. MeDermott saw the need to provide access to Lot 3, which is landlocked, and
noted the discussions regarding a possible trade of land for Lot 3 with land found within
the park Contact has not been made�ith that property owner.
While access to Lot 6 could be abtained frorr� the north, the main issue is for access to
Lots 4 and 5. Gappa indicated the most probable access would be from the south as the
northerly access woutd require a major cut to the hill on West Branch Road (County Road
151) as well as approval fron� other property oi�ners.
McDermott nated there is no easy solution for access to the properties. He is concerned
that the park land not be bisected by a roadway. McDermott recammended that Garden
I,ane provide access, but it should be relocated away from the ravine to minimize impact,
or it shauld mave to the property line along CaRd I 9.
White said he daes not want to divide the park and access to Lots 5 and 6 will not be
inehpensive. He cautioned that there is na easy salution.
Ilse asked for clarification regarding access from the church parking lot. She indicated
that it is wo�-th pursuing access and parking from this locaxion.
Wilson said it was her understanding that the walking easement which would be allawed
by the chur�h u,�ould be contin�ent on the 9 acre parcel remaining green space with no
development. Wilsan said that the easement would be a temporary eas�ement. Ilse
indicated that there needs to be a permanent solution to pravide access.
McDermott noted the main issue is access to the lots on Saga Hill.
The meeting was opened to public comments.
2
MINUTES (}F THE REGULAR ORONO PARK CONIMISS[4N
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#2 - Saga Hill Access - Gantinued)
Jim Stephanson said he lives to the north of Lot 5. It is his feeling that any access to the
north is not feasible because of the steep grade and rur�off concerns from the creek into
Forest Lake. He indicated tl�ere are poor sight lines on the County roadway and someone
has been killed there. Cars from 200 yards to the east cannot be seen. Stephanson said
access from the south would cut into the natural area. Stephanson questioned whether the
City's assessor was invalved in the development of Lots 4 and 5. If so, he felt this was a
conflict of interest and should not be allowed. The property owner of the lots being
discussed is Dr. Soltner-V1/ebb.
Richard Krier, Senior Planner for RLK Associates, indicated he is representing the
property owner of Lots 2, 4, and 5, which is Sollner-Webb. Krier said the assessor is not
involved in this development.
Lyle Kasprick said Highview Lane to the east to Wildhurst could serve Lots 4, 5, and 6
but has not been mentioned. McDermott indicated that the easement was probably nat
wide enough to become a road and is also relatively steep. Gappa noted the easement to
be 2U' but was unaware of the conditions of the easement. Kasprick said the property to
the east of Lot 2 has access from the east where it is steep.
Wilson questioned if the lots could be served by a private driveway rather than a road.
Gappa referred to the code requiring a private road for access to three lots. A private
driveway can only serve up to two properties. Gappa indicated the standards call for at
least a 24'wide roadway. Gappa said that it would be difficult to grade for a roadway
beca�se grading would disturb the slope.
White suggested tying the access in to Garden Lane for Lots 4, 5, and 6. McDermott said
he would be conCerned v��th apening up a wide area of land.
Kasprick asked whether the City would aid a developer economically in creating an
access. lklcDerrnott indicated Garden Lane is platted but it would be the developer's
responsibiliry to construct the roadway. McDermott indicated possible City responsibility
if the road was relocated and the costs were higher for the developer. McDermott said the
City is loaking for an economical solution to the access problem.
Irene Silber said she has spoken with Sollner-Webb in the past regarding the lots
becQming park land instead of being developed. Silber asked the Commission to consider
contacting Sollner-Webb regarding a possible canservation easement.
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MINUTES fJF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#2 - Saga Hill Access - Continued)
White inquired of Krier about Sollner-Webb's position. Krier said that he had
recommended access for Lots 2, 4, and 5 be from a public street. He indicated that his
client is interested in sel}ing the land for park or development. Krier was unaware of the
asking price of the property. VVhite asked Krier to obtain an appraisal or provide lvs
client'� asking price.
Ms. Rostad, 4650 Tonkaview Lane, said she is the owner of Lot 1. Rostad said she thinks
a driveway would be adequate. White said that if the City was able to acc�uire Lots 2, 4,
and 5, 6 would remain a problem.
Patty Affeldt indicated that Lat 6 has the right to have a driveway through the property
north of it. Stephanson said the owner of Lot 6 has a legal easement. The access is not a
City road, but a driveway.
Kasprick inquired if the lots have a right ta have access. He was informed that platted
land has a ribht to legal access.
Sandy Rasmussen, 1186 Wildhurst Trail, noted the need to assess the access options and
runoff impacts. She reported that runoff currently flows down Wildhurst during a
downpour. She indicated that the bay is considered to be in an at-risk condition.
Rasmussen questioned what restrictions would be placed on development to alleviate the
drainage problems suggesting the need for an envirorimental impact statement.
McDermott said the road would not necessarily be as wide as the 50' easement but would
have to meet the road standards which would include proper drainage.
Wilson asked Gaffron for his opinion regarding possible access from Wildhurst for Lots 4
and 5. Gaffron noted the difficulty presented by the steep slope within the right-of-way
and the length of the roadway to meet the m�imum slope requirements. He indicated a
City road would be limited dus to the steep terrain, and a private road would have safety
concerns. His opinian is that it would be too difficult to provide access. Gappa indicated
there also would be the need to grade outside of the right-of-way.
Stephan Valek, resident of Tonkaview Lane, said that he thought that the owners of Lots
1-6 should donate their property for park. Valek noted that past attempts to develop
these lats have been dificult because of the City and citizens. MeDermott asked Valek if
he was satisfied with Garden Lane as it is platted. Valek said the road should be
eliminated_
Renae Leone af the Minnesota Land Trust said that the access for Lots 3, 4, and 5 was
difficult. She said thai a land swap for I.ot 3 near the ravine would be beneficial. She
indicated that maving Garden Lane may present problems because there may be eonditions
in the DNR�rant that would prohibit such a change.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR QRONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD QN FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#2 - Saga Hill Access - Continued)
A Tonkaview resident said that she was concerned about the DNR grant and increased
traffic if Garden Lane was opened.
Wilson questioned Gaffron if access to Lots 4 and 5 could be gained from CoRd 151.
Gaf�i-on reported that it would require revisions to the roadway. Wilson asked who would
pay for the improvement. Gaf�'ron said it would be far the benefit of the property owner
as the City does not realize the benefit. McDermatt noted that there would still be the
need to acquire the right to have such an easement as it is currently only deeded as a
driveway. Gaffron said the driveway was never cantemplateci for access to Lots 4 and 5
noting the cost invalved. Gaffron agreed with Wilson that this was probably a better
option than access from Highview.
Krier indicated the possible aptions for access to the Sollner-Webb property. A public
southerly access from T�nkaview Lane via Garden Lane with sewer from Highview would
cost appro�mately $285,000. A private access to the south using Garden Lane with no
sewer would cost about $129,000. A norther(y access from West Branch Road would
cost about $148,000 plus sewer. Krier indicated that this alternative would only serve
Lots 4 and S. Access from Garden Lane would serve Lots 1 and 2 as well. Krier
indicated that if the lot north of Lot 1 was subdivided, there may possibly be as many as
seven lots served by Garden Lane which wc�uid distribute the costs among these la�s. He
sa5d it was their recommendation that the owner pursue public access from Garden Lane
for Lflts 4, 5, 2 as well as the park under a City project. He said it would be the most cost
effective and provide public access. Kasprick inquired to whom it would be cost
effective? Krier said it would be cost effective for the property owners. Wilson said that
there were considerations other than costs to resolve.
Milt Krelitz said he was representing Mr. Soskin, owner of the 7 acre parcel adjacent to
Garden Lane. He noted that this property wc�uld tie in to Garden Lane.
Irene Silber indicated that the Soskin property also has access from Wildhurst.
White asked Mr. Krier about the asking price of the Sollner-Webb property and whether
the owner would consider a conservation easement for Lots 4 and 5.
Wilson asked the Commission members for their recammendation.
McDermott said he would recommend access from Garden Lane with the road being
relocated awa}�fram the ravine area. McDermott did not recommend an option of a raad
between the two park properties to the north and looping back soutl�waxd along Garden
Lane.
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MINUTES QF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FE�RUARY 3, 1997
(#2 - Saga Hill Access - Continued)
Wilson suggested realigning Garden Lane. She wauld like the property owner of Lots 4
and 5 contacted regarding some type of acquisition. Wilson did not want to see the park
land divided by the roadway.
�lse asked for further information regarding trading of land in Lot 3. (Gappa indicated the
trade with park property would allow access to occur over Lot 3.) Currently Lot 3 access
would be provided by Garden Lane on the west side of the lot. The possibility of trading
Lot 3 with another lot further to the east that is owned by the City has been discussed.
This would provide the owner of Lot 3 with a iot that has public road access and eliminate
the need for access to Lot 3 which would be City Parkland.
Rastad asked that the Commission approach the development from a standpoint of leaving
the center of the park intact so as not to disturb the natural areas and ravine.
Krier suggested the City purchase Lots 4 and 5 at market value to maintain as park land.
He also noted that access from Highview had been considered but found to be too steep.
Wilson moved, White seconded, to recommend access options from existing roads to
the north, south, and east in order to ma.intain t�he integrity of the park land without
splitting up the park property. The mation further recommended the purchase or swap of
land�or all ar some af the parcels for inclusion as park land to avoid extensive road
construction.
Ilse noting the difficulty in the ability of the City to purchase Lots 4 and 5, asked far input
from the Saga Hill Group regarding their interest in considering the purchase of these two
lots.
Renae Leone said she had spoken wi#h Sollner-Webb, who indicated it was her desire to
setl the property.
Patty Af�'eldt asked the City to consider working together to purchase Lots 4 and 5.
Affeldt suggested that the Park Commission and preservation group wark together to
raise funds ta purchase the property.
Stephen Valek said he thought the tw� lots were listed at $375,000.
Beal inquired who would pay for�he canstruction of the road. Gappa said if the petition
was mad�by the property owners for the road, it would be assessed back to the adjoining
property owners.
Vote: Ayes 5, Nays 0.
G
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR OR�N(?PARK C4MMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#3) OPEN SPACE REPORT- WTLSQN AND MCDERM�TT
Wilson asked the Cammissioners to review property in the northeast quadrant of the City
where the Spring Hill Golf Course is proposed for development. She suggested
cansidering a possible trail connection from Woodrill to Wolsfeld Woods. Wilson said she
has spoken with the golf course representatives who indicated they are not interested in
this proposition. However, Wilson said a bike trail has been platted out in the bike trail
maps along East Long Lake Road and Spring Hill. The trail construction would allow this
connection to be made between these two significant properties. Wilsan noted the golf
course will be constructing a tunnel under CoRd b. Atthough they were not interested in
the trail going through their tunnel, Wilsan suggested the grading of a trail might coincide
with the grading of the golf course. Wilson said she would like ta recommend to the
Council to pursue this option.
When asked where the funding would come fram, Van Zomeren noted that the Spring Hill
Go1f Course is seeking conditional u�e permits from the City. It may be possible to attach
conditic�ns that require trails.
Gappa said the area along Spring Hill Road is steep and contains wetlands. He said it was
the intent of the golf course to provide buffering in this area without disturbing the
wetlands. He saw the only possibility for a trail would be on the golf course property and
could possibly be negotiated.
White agreed witl�the importance of linking the two wooded areas to create a bigger
impaci. He nflted that the galf course developers need to be notified early so that they are
aware of this issue.
White moved, Beal seconded, to recommend a hiking trail be cansidered for
construction k�etween the two SNAs, Woodrill and Wolsfeld Woods in the planning af the
Spring Hitl Golf�ourse aiong with co-use ar a second underpass for safe access.
Van Zomeren reported that the CUP application will be heard at the February 18 Planning
Commission Meeting and will infonn Gaffron of the recommendation.
Vote: Ayes 5,Nays 0,
{#4) UPDATE ON TRAILS IN DICKEY PR(JPERTY- GREG GAPPA
Gappa reported having met with Moorse and Van Zomeren regarding the trail on the
Dickey prop�rty. The Council has requested a public hearing be held this spring in order
to hear citizen's input before further proceeding.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK CQMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 3, 1997
{#4 -Dickey Property Trails - Continued)
McDermott relayed the events that occurred at the Council meeting where this topic was
discussed. The new residents are not in favor c�f any public trails. Residents did not want
to pay for title searches to determine the status of the trails. McDermott said the maps
available at the Parade of Homes did not indicate the trails, and the developer, who was
required to provide the trails in lieu of Park Dedication funds, did not establish them. The
Park Commissian did make a recommendation in 1996 for trail monuments. McDermott
indicated that there were suppose to be three trails. 4ne was trail was to go north to
Dickey Park, one south to the DNR land, and one east to#he subdivision.
Ilse noted that she was contacted by a neighbor across Watertown Road from this
development, who would like to see the trails constructed and who said she would rally
other neighhors for support.
Wilson asked Gappa ta keep the Park Commission informed regarding any further action.
Gappa indicated the next step wQuld be the scheduled public hearing.
(#5) ANTOINE PARK PROGRESS REPfJRT- BEAL
�appa reported that the building at Antoine Park was reviewed by a structural engineer.
The roof joists ar►d roof on the barn portion were found in need of replacement. The
columns in the open shed area are bent and would require a new roof. There is a common
wall for the barn and garage whicll would need replacement.
McDermatt suggested removing the barn and leaving the open area. Gappa said the
repa� faur�d the barr� and open area were not w�rth restoring. The gara�e area would
require about $10,000 in repair along with other modifications. The cost would increase
to about �14,400 plus demolition of the remaining portion of the building. Gappa
indicated there has been graffiti written on the inside walls indicating a lack of security.
He is also concerned with access to the roof via the nearby trees.
Gappa suggested building an open air gazebo in the park The cost for a 30' diameter
gazebo ��ould be $14,000 plus the $6,504 fQr demolition of the existing buildings. A 40'
diameter gazebo would cost $23,000.
Beal said the concern had been expressed over the change in views of a neighboring
property. This was determined to be unfounded.
Beal said he was concerned with the cost of the play ground equipment and the additional
cost of the gaze�o. He noted the use of the shelter occurred only occasionally.
McDermott suggested refurbishing the open area portion of the barn at a cost af$10,000
and remova] of the remainder. Beal said he did not see the benefit in savings.
s
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#5 - Antoine Park - Continued)
Wilson rec�mmended installation of the play ground equipment only at this time noting
other parks would also like to have shelters.
The grading costs of the land has not yet been determined. Gappa said the plans would
have to be finalized first. The Comrnissron determined the need for a topographical map
of the park for possible changes in equipment due to sloping in order to save the trees on
the property.. Gappa indicated this would probably change the play graund configuration
as well as cost.
IVIcDermott and Beal noted a problem with the locatian suggested for parking.
McDermatt said the topography of the land would nat allow parking along the roadway.
Beal is also concerned with the handicap access. McDermott suggested parking to occur
around the corner.
Wilson moved, White seconded, to recommend demolition and removal of the existing
buildings on the park property, necessary grading, and installation of play ground
equipment as previously recommended. Beal and Ilse are to meet with Gappa to
determine play ground location in order to save the trees on the property and determine
parking location appropriate to that found by the grading analysis.
Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 1, McDermott. McDermott would like to save a portion of the
existing building as a cost effective measure.
Beal asked for clarifica#ion on costs. Gappa indicated that there has been no budgeting
done for this project but would be presented to the Council for their appraval. Gappa will
survey the property for grading in order to determine further costs. While grading may be
performed by City emptoyees, the topographical survey cannot. Gappa will review the
current maps available. It was noted tha# the costs determined for the play ground
equipment was bid for placement on a flat area. The cost will change if the grades change.
Gappa wiil present a cost report and layout for approval at the April Meeting of the Park
Commission. Wilson asked that the park improvements be presented to the Council as a
cornplete package.
(#6} VACATION OF PARK LAND ON BIG ISLAND- MCDERMOTT
McDermott reported that there is park land property on Big Island approximately
104'x600'. Crappa noted that the applicant�did not intend to vacate the entire portion of
the access. The applicants require only a small portion of land vacated in orcler to insta��
suitable septic system. The Planning Commission tabled the application in orc�er to al�e�v
the applicants to meet with neighbors to determine alternative options for providi�g
access. .
9
MINUTES OF THE REGLTLAR QRONO PARK COMMI55ION
1VIEETII�TG HELD ON FEBRlit�RY 3, iG97
(#6 Big Islanti - Continued)
Van Zameren brought the Commissioner's attention to an invitation by the Veterans Camp
on Big Island regarding an upgrade of their facilities.
(#7) TREE PRESERVATION UPDATE - BEAL
Beal referred to a memo where he outiined considerations for tree preservation. He
reported having met with Moorse, Van Zomeren, and Gai�ron regarding the issue. A
general discussion at that meeting reviewed policies and ordinances from other cities. He
asked the Park Commissioners ta cansider goals regarding tree preservation, maintenance
and replacement anc!to answer whether Orona wants to retain its rural feel, whether
Orono wants to shietd residential developments from road travelers or vice versa, and
whether Orono wants to retain a eertain percentage of its total land mass as natural
growth of trees and shrubs? The Park Commission is asked to reach a conclusion on these
matters and if a policy is to be established, answer wha would direct the policy and how it
would be enforced.
The Commission discussed the issue of tree preservation and restoration, or refarestation.
Van Zomeren said she would be interested in further review of this issue to set guidelines
for the future. Beal indicated that there is still alot of land �or development and
redeveiapment. Buffer zones on commercial properties were noted. Van Zomeren said
that buffer zones that are too small stress plant material, and it is difficult to enforce
maintenance and determine if the correct plants have been instalied.
It was noted that Orono does not have any ordinance regarding hardcover outsid�e of the
shoreland regulatians in areas proposed for new development. Van Zomeren asked the
Commission to consider whether they want to preserve large stands of trees or significant
old trees that are on the private property. Wilson said she would be in agreement with a
policy for new subdivisians but had a problem with private properly. White noted the
need for education of the peopte and the need for a proactive approach to tree
preservatian.
Wilson suggested a work session be held with Van Zomeren. Ilse suggested a sub-
committee work together and present to the Commission their recommendations.
Van Zomeren recommended the Park Commission determine what they would like to see
accomplishe�l in this area and then find the middle ground and resources for enforcement.
Gappa noted that a general policy was passed by the Council favoring tree preservation.
Wilson asked the Commissioners to review the tnaterials. The sub-committee, Beal
(chair}, Wilson, and'V�hite will meet with Van Zomeren an Tuesday, March 18.
io
MINt7TES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD UN FEBRUARY 3, 1997
(#8) FINAL REVIEW OF PARK STI;DY INVENTORY - MICI�AEL SCHULTZ
McDermott indicated the Park Inventory as distributed does not include current revisions.
The revised versian will be sent ta the Par� Commission as soon as it arrives from Schultz
for final review. The inventory will be reviewed at the March meeting to iMclude any
changes to park inventory recommendations. McDermott will make final corrections.
McDermott noted that information is still being gathered on boat accesses and trails. The
maps are comptete.
(#9} NEW BUSINESS
Witson asked the Commissioners to be ready to discuss the 1997 work plan at the March
meeting of the Park Commission. The meetings for the remainder of the year will be
planned at that time.
The following Commissioners will represent the Park Cammission at the Council
Meetings:
February 10 - Wilson March 10 -McDermatt
February 24 - White March 24 - Ilse
ADJ(JllRNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:Q7 p.m.
�
c��,�C._.
Susan y►�jlson, Acting �hair
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