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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-04-1996 Park Commission Minutes 4RON0 PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES FOR NOVEMBER 4, 1996 ATTENDANCE The Park Commission met on the above mentioned date with the following members present: Chair Richard Flint, Sherokee Ilse, Andrew McDermott, and David Beal. Susan Wilson and James White were absent. Representing Staffwere Public Works Director, John Gerhardson, Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator, Michael Gaf�'ron, and Recorder Sherry Frost. Council Member Goetten also was in attendance. Chair Flint called the meeting to order at 7:�0 p.m. (#1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES �F OCTQBER S, 1996 On page 2, paragraph 5, Iast sentence, the wording was changed to "Wilson said she would be interested in reconsidering the ice rink". Under item#7, the spelling of the name, Kay Cram, was corrected. Beal moved, Ilse secnded, to approve the Minutes of the October 8, 1996 Park Commission Meeting as amended. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0. (#2) DISCUSSION OF ANTOINE PARK - DAVID BEAL AND SUBCOMMITTEE Beal, who is chair of the subcommittee, reported that he had spoken with Karen Hanson, a neighborhood representative on the subcommittee. Hanson has given no indication of what is preferred for the barn on the park property. It has been estimated that it will cost about $6,500 for demoli#ion and removal of the barn. No estimates has been determined for rehabilitation of the building but Gerhardson said he would investigate this matter. Beal said there are three parts ta the barn, which is built of block walls that are in good condition. The storage portion of the barn is in the best condition, while the mid section is in the worst condition. The roof is in need of replacement as well as the fascia boards. McDermott su�gested that the storage area of the barn might be used as a warming house. Flint suggested working with the contractor. Bea1 said Hanson was attempting to contact the other committee members. Gerhardson said he was awaiting a site plan and a list of items requested for the park. Once that informatian is gained, he suggested the subcommittee meet. Flint encouraged the committee to speak with Barb and Steve King, owners of Landscape Structures, regarding the playground equipment. In discussing the time table for work on the park, it was determined that the planning stage would occur over the winter with work beginning in the sprin�;. Support was shown for both playground equipment and a basketball court. It was noted that the ages of the children in the area changes with time and family transitions. The park will be planned in long term needs. 1 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, T 996 (#2 - Antoine Park - Continued) It was suggested that the cancrete under the structure might be incarporated into the base for the basketball court. The condition and location were discussed. There could be a noise issue if located too near homes. Flint suggested that the cost for the base is not as critical as using the optimal location for the court. Gerhardson suggested the costs be known for the renovation before any further planning is dane as well as obtaining a list of possible uses for the shelter. The Commissioners felt that the building could be used as a picnic area, warming house, and rain shelter. Neighborhoad picnics are conducted in the park grounds. The possibility of maintaining an ice rink for the 1996-97 season was discussed. Beat said it was his understanding that an ice rink was not desired by the neighborhood. McDermatt and Ilse felt if the rink was better maintained, the neighbors would use a rink. Ilse also suggested the rink be lit if reestablished. Beal noted there were two flood lights in the vicinity. Gerhardson said lighting has been provided up to 10:00 p.m. in the past. Concern was noted for correct directional lighting as to nQt disturb the neighbors. McDermott asked that the area where the rink was located be preserved for such a possible use in the future. In discussing the location of the play equipment and basketball court, Flint suggested that the two areas be separated as different age groups use each area. The funding of the park rehabilitation was discussed. An estimated amount of$25,000 had previously been discussed as a possible allocation for the play ground equipment. McDermott was concerned that the amount was minimal in respect to the actual cost of equipment today. He said that he would like to see more money set aside. Flint suggested neighborhood assistance might be obtained in raising funds. The Park Dedication Fund is estimated to have $150,Q00 in December of 1997 after the 1997 bike trail construction costs have been paid, net of reimbursement by the DNR. It was questioned whether the phase two plan for the O'Sullivan project in Navarre would result in a contribution to the fund. Goetten informed the Commission that no requests have yet been made with respect to Park Dedicatian Fees on this project. With the intense use of the property, it was suggested that a Park Dedication contribution be sought. Goetten said she did not disagree with that conclusion. Ilse said the contribution should be in addition to the vacation of Navarre Lane(see agenda item #9 for discussion of the O'Sullivan project). 2 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSIOIV MEETING HELD QN NOVEMBER 4, I 996 {#3) DISCUSSION OF WINTER PARK PLANS (JOHN GERHARDSON): A. SKATING RINKS G�rhardson reported that three rinks were maintained last year, Bederwood, Hackberry, and Casco Point. It appears that Bederwood received the least amount of usage. It was noted that there were no lights at Bederwood. Ilse reported that she has received comments from people in the area that they were unaware of the rink being there. Ilse said it was inlportant that the services provided in the winter time be highlighted by notificatians to Orono residents. McDermatt suggested a mailing be sent out to the residents. Goetten suggested that the Park Commission do their own public relations work, possibly with a newspaper article. Gerhardson asked the Commissian for their recommendation for ice rinks for this winter season. Gerhardson did not have any costs for rink upkeep. McDermott noted that it had been decided iast year to close Antoine. Flint said the closure was done to enable a better job to be performed on the remaining rinks after it was shown that Antoine was not used very often. 1VIcDermott asked about a past conversation regarding the use of equipment belongin�to the City of Wayzata. Gerhardson said he was unaware of that and has not spaken with anyone from Wayzata. Beal noted there were comments received regarding the slushy conditions and smell of the ice at Antoine. Gerhardson said the difference between Antoine and the ather locations is that the land at Antoine was filled about 15-20 years ago and has never stabilized. It has not been deternuned why these air pockets have developed. The other rinks are located on grade. The only imported portion of the rinks at Bederwood and Hackberry are the berms. Flint suggested maintaining the same three ice rinks this year. He noted that the neighbors of Antoine should be infarmed that it is too late this year to change to four rinks and still maintain quality ice. He also asked that the Bederwood neighbors be informed that the rink is there. • Regarding a light at Bederwaod, Gerhardson said there is power in the street but might be offensive to the neighboring homes. McDerrnatt suggested a timer be used. Ilse asked if the light could be directed toward the rink and shietded from the neighboring homes. Gerhardson said a flood light would have to be used and located high on the pole. This would resuit in fallout from the light. The light has not been budgeted for but it would be similar to the light on the existing pole at Casco. Ilse noted that there has been problems with peaple partying in the parking lot and questioned whether the Commission should advocate putting in a light. She said it is quite common ta see a number of cars in the lot. Gerhardson asked Ilse to speak with the neighbors regarding this issue, and he, in turn, would peruse the police records to research the history of problems. A decision will be made later regarding a light for next year. 3 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, 1996 B. ORONO GOLF COURSE Fiint asked if Gear West was interested in using the golf course for crass country skiing. Gerhardson said he has not heard from the group. A trail was established last year; but no events occurred. Gerhardson noted that the cancession stand resulted in a gross income of only $50 over the 2-1/2 manth period last winter. The club house was used on Saturdays from 12-4. Ilse suggested that Sundays are considered more a family day and might result in a higher usage. Gerhardson said he did receive comments that the parking lot itself was full on occasion but there was no usage of the clubhouse. The golf course fund paid for the club house being open last year, and golf course personnel requested that the park activity be paid for by the park funds. There are no actual cost figures available but it was estimated at about $200 for the season plus the cost af utility usage. The usage of the club house was even less two years ago. The Commissianers discussed the reasons for the club house being open. It was felt that the need far a warnling house, use of a phone, and bathroom facilities were important enaugh ta mair�tain the club house usage. It was determined that better public notification was needed. The Commissioners agreed to maintain the use of the club house on Sundays from 12:00-400 p.m. (#4} FRIEND OF THE PARKS AWARD The list of eandidates for the Friend of the Parks Award include the Saga Hill Preservation Society, Boy Scout Jason Christenson, the "Dirt Diggers", who worked at the Crystal Bay Post Office, Kay Cram, and Jim Abbott far his shade garden, but who asked that no recognition be given. A decision will be determined at the December meeting along with who will chair the activity. The presentatian will be held in February. Ilse sug�ested that Amelia Kroger, who is recycling coordinator for the West Hennepin District, be recognized for her contribution in cleaning up the Stubbs Bay Park area down to the access. The Commissioners agreed that the contribution made by the Saga Hill Group was extraordinary and should be set as a model for the community to follow. McDermatt asked that other smaller contributions be recognized in order not to lose the interest of those who might contribute on a smaller scale but are unable to make major contributions. Flint said the Crystal Bay Park contributors might be looked at as a group; this would indude the "Dirt Diggers" and Jason Christenson. Christenson was given recognition previously. � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORE)NO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, ]996 (#4 - Friend of the Parks Award - Continued) The plaque which indicates by name plates those that have contributed in the past was shown. Ilse suggested that may be a different tevel of recognition be made for those making major contributions such as land preservation. The recent contribution by Bruce Dayton was noted. Flint said he preferred the recognition now given. Beal received confirmation that the award was to be a motivatin�factor for people to make contributions. Ilse asked th�t a needs list be created for sprir�g. She atso suggested that flower planting be promoted thru out the City. (#5) DISCUSSION OF PROGRESS ON OLD eRYSTAL BAY BIKE TRAIL (JOHN GERHARDSON) It was reported that the base work was campleted hy City personnel for the trail from Hwy 12 to the teen center. This portion of the trail was approved for paving this year by the Council at their last meeting. Gerhardson also reported that all easements have been acquired south of Hwy 12. Some tree removal and soil replacement may take place this year. It was noted that some fill may be obtained from the ice rink site. Flint voiced concern over the trail base �iear the City Hall gaing through a freeze-thaw cycle. Gerhardson said they allowed for this to occur by using an all-granular mi�ure. Flint questioned whether the paving should be done this year since the trail is not plowed during the winter months. Gerhardson said the City would like to complete what it can this year but would not jeopardize the trail if canditions are not right. McDermott asked if the trail area was high enough in elevation in view of the wooded area in front of City Hail. Gerhardson said the final grade has not yet been obtained but one area would require piping. Flint inquired about the cost for the trail sectiott fram Hwy l2 to the teen center. Gerhardson said the costs are not yet known, but the paving would be about $10,000. He estimated the cost at about $25,000, which is less than what was estimated. Gerhardson said the engineered fill was purchased but the City persannel removed the soils and brush where the 1" of engineered fili was placed. (#6} FOLLQW-UP ON OCTOBER 30TH W�RK SESSION WITH CITY COUNCIL The recent land contribution by Bruce Daytan was announced at the wark session. The DNR wiil be running that project. Ilse noted there will be waiking trails only; and no biking or horses will be aliowed in the preservation area. s MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, 1996 (#6 - Work Session Follow Up - Continued) The �oRd b improvement project was also discussed at the work session. Flint said that the trail will not be a separated trail. He said that the way the costs were presented and the system designed by the County Highway Department gave the City Council little choice but to accept the County's recommendations. In the future, we need to take a stand in favor af a separated bike trail at an earlier stage in the proceedings. McDermott said that the homes were located back on the praperties allowing roam for a separated bike path. (#7) FOLLOW-UP ON WORK BY CITY INTERN, MICHAEL SCHULTZ Flint reparted that the comments made by the Commissioners has not yet been reviewed and incorporated by Schultz. Recommendations for each park will be separated from the main portion of the park inventory since these will be updated annually. Flint said the Lee Carlson ball fields will be added to the inventory list, along with pages numbers. A comprehensive park map will be included in the package with corresponding numbers to the inventary for easy cross reference. A map showing the bike trail will designate by calor what has been completed and where easements have been acquired. Ilse vaiced concern with the lack of notation af directions given by Pat Dickey with respect tc�the park on the former Dickey property. It was determined that the past minutes of the Council would have to be reviewed. The developer, Mr. Putnam, also may have information regarding conditions and restrictions. Ilse said she will call Putnam. Flint said he received a call from a potentiat buyer of property in the area regarding what type of park would be built. He nated that the park is listed under the conservation/nature area in the inventory. Flint questioned where the information came from noting that the "property deeded is open space and not necessarily park land". Ilse said she would like ta honor the wishes made by Dickey whether they are in writing or not. Flint asked tha�the recommendations for the park be rewritten under the comment section. (#8} PARK MASTER PLAN FOLLOW-UP: The various committees appointed to foiow up on the work session with the City Council and their reports were as follows: � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD QN NOVEMBER 4, 1496 A. PARK& OPEN SPACE 1DENTIFICATION (WILSON, CHAIR) McDermatt said he met with Wilson regarding the park and apen space identification, and they are develaping a possible list. He asked if they should identify where a community play field might be located. Ilse thought they should. Flint asked that the committee also look at open space on a wider range than the Orc�no City limits only citing the example of Holbraok Park, which will be lost with Hwy 12 improvement. Since Mn/DOT must mitigate the loss of a portian af Holbrook, it might be that a larger piece of property could be acquired in connection with the Highway �12 project and a community pla�f'ield located on that land. B. LONG TERM FUNDING (WHITE, CHAIR} C. COMMUNITY PLAY FIELDS AND HIGHER ACTIVITY PARK AREAS (ILSE, CNAIR) Flint questioned whether each individual community needed their own field. McDermott said most communities do have their own field and nated that people ask what Orono is praviding. Flint reported on information received at the meeting of numerous athletic groups and school representation. He said that athletic groups are encouraging the school to build a field house. He said the school board recognizes the economic limitations and is looking for input. He also noted that there is a possibility that the old school will be revamped rather than a new school built. This would open up more land on the school campus for use as pla�elds. It was suggested that the different groups and school coardinate their efforts. Ilse noted that the Commission assisted with the Carlson baseball fields, and she thought other groups, such as soceer, would be looking for similar assistance. Flint suggested the athletic groups inform the Commission of their needs. He feels the park inventory will assist in this area. He asked if the inventory should be distributed ta the communities. The Commissioners felt that the information should not be sent out at this time since it is not yet camplete. McDermott questioned whether there should be sub-categories under baseball to recognize the differing usage of park such as t-ball. Ilse said it was still part of the baseball program and noted that soccer uses different size fields also. � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, 1996 D. TREE PLANTINGS AND NATURAL BUFFER ZQNES (BEAL, CHAIR) Beal reparted that he met with the Wayzata City Forester, Sunny Clark. He was infarmed that Wayzata has a municipal ordinance regarding a tree preservation policy, which gives latitude and guidance to their council. It was noted that Eden Prairie, Lino Lakes, and Lakeville also have policies. It was suggested that each of these policies be obtained and reviewed for passible usage by Orona. Flint noted that the work session discussion with the City Council resulted in a request for such a subdivision regulation for providing landscape screen to maintain rural appearance. The Council was interested in establishing re�ulations far tree replacement. This will be further reviewed at the January meeting of the Park Commission. E. FOLLOW-UP ON HIGH`VAY 12 RECONIMENDATION (SEPT. MINUTES) (#9) OTHER BUSINESS Flint reported on a meeting he attended with differing athletic groups and school representatives regarding the varying needs of each group, especially for fields. See agenda item 8c, secand paragraph, abQve. {#10) JC)HN O'SULLIVAN APPLICATION - REVIEW OF PROPERTY FOR POSSIBLE TRAILS Michael Gaffi-on informed the Park Commission that the Planning Commission will review at their upcoming meeting the application of John O'Sullivan for vacation of the remaining right-of-way of Navane Lane in phase two of his project. The phase one portion consisting of the Culver's Restaurant, gas/convenience store station, and car wash is now under construction. Phase two will consist of a possible bank with drive-up facilities and retail/office space. He suggested that the Park Commission review the property regarding possible traits. Phase two plans currently call for parking stalls ta be located in the vacated right-of-way. The Cauncil previously appraved vacation of a portion of Navarre Lane. In reviewing the vacation of the remaining portion of Navarre Lane, Council Member Kelley questioned whether the City might have a future need for neighborhood access as well as utilities and suggested it not be vacated. O'Sullivan is naw once again requesting the vacation be considered of the remaining 33' of Navarre Lane. Gaffi-an said the City needs to determine whether there is a City need. Gaffron noted that utility easements can be retained if the right-of-way is abandoned. s MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, 1996 (#10 - Review of O'Sullivan Application - Continued) Gaffron reported that O'Sullivan is propasing a bike trail along Olive Avenue abutting the neighboring properties and thence southwesterly along the north property line. Gaffron questions whether the more appropriate trail location would be through Navarre Lane. In looking at the diagram of the neighborhaad, Gaf�'ron noted that the neighbors along Olive Avenue would make use of the trail along the northern portion of the property but to gain access to the convenience store, a more natural trail would be along Navarre Lane. He also questioned whether there were park or trail ptans in the area. Flint reported that he walked the area and observed how close together the residential and commercial properties were located. Neve�heless, he saw that to access the area on foot currently would be difficult. Gaffron asked if there was any sense of whether Navarre Lane was used as a corridor now. O'Sullivan responded to the question. He said he sees only a couple people walking on a nice day. Since construction has be�un, no one has been walking Navarre Lane. He also has not received any complaints during the construction. He does view people walking along Olive Avenue by the wetlands. McDermott asked about the construction of a trail along Olive Avenue. O'Sullivan said he never has shown a trail behind the property except along the existing Olive roadway. He said he would provide a corridor up to Olive similar to an alleyway. O'Sulliva�i asked the Commission to consider the possibility of the 10-12' vertical drop fram where his dumpster is located on his property to Navarre Lane. O'Sullivan said the slope would have to begin back by Olive Avenue in order to get to grade. Gaffron suggested a ramp as a solution. O'Sullivan suggested a pathway between Olive and the water retention pond. He added that if the trail is on the property, it could possibly be contoured along the way in order to cut down on the slope. He also noted that he never agreed to pay for a trail as we11 as expressed cancern over the liability issue. Flint said he was struck by the fact that the development is geared like a strip commercial center towards people driving rather than for pedestrians from the abutting neighborhood. He saw a trail as a way ta facilitate walking in the area and as a way to access the restaurant. Ilse asked those present to consider the possibility af a raised trail between the parking areas. She said she was concerned with the cramped spacing of Olive Avenue with cars parking along it as well as with CoRd 19. She noted CoRd I S was also a bad area for walking. Ilse saw a safe means of getting to the corner of CoRds 15 and 19 without crossing the street as a real asset. She thought those people whose homes back up to Lafayette would use it. Ilse said she would support providing a trail to gain a straight path to the corner. 9 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK CONIlVIISSTO�I'� MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, 1996 (#l0 - Review of O'Sullivan Application - Continued) Gaffron said that he was thinking along the same line of thought. He considered a 10' corridor by pushing the parking over to the northwest and leaving a path between the parking lots. There would only be one area where traffic would cross. McDermott said it should be raised somewhat to create a need to slow down, such as a speed bump. McDermott said the access issue was brought up at the public meetings conducted by O'Sullivan; at which, O'Sullivan said he would provide access from the neighborhood. No further inforniation was given, however. Ftint noted that the intersection does not prov�ide an easy way to cross as a pedestrian. McDermott said it was similar to many other intersections. Flint commented that there were many children in the area and reported that the sidewalk daes run west all alang CoRd 15 to the Mound area. It does not go to the east, however. Beal said there is no trail on sidewalk on the south side of CoRd 15. McDermott said people would use Navarre Lane now. Ilse noted that people use Old Crystal Bay Road and Minnetonka Beach. Flint asked O'Sullivan how such a trail along Navarre Lane, considering its location and cost, would affect the plans. 4'Sullivan said it was a very tight site with extreme topographical areas. It was noted that if this trail could be accomplished, the buildings could be moved towards Olive Avenue as the strip along Olive Avenue reserved for a pathway would no longer be necessary. Flint asked if this would create a setback problem. Gaffron said, since the property does not abut residential, parking can go up to the property lot line. Gaffi-on said topography problems could occur but there are no grading plans yet by which to consider such a possibility. McDermott asked if eiiminating the bike trail atong Olive Avenue would help maintain the setbacks. Gaffron said it probably would as 10' is required. There would be 12' with the elimination of the trail and buffering with trees and retaining walls would be a consideration. McDermott asked if the 7' strip between the parking lot would enable the praject to still meet setbacks. Gaffron said the project was still in conceptual planning stage. The retention pond is also a factor. Gaf�'ron said the plans were not set and it was his idea to give such infarmation to O'Sullivan to consider. Gaffron noted that this information gives �'Sullivan the idea that the Commission would lean towards a trail through the center via Navarre Lane. McDerniott said he would like to see some type of path along Olive as it is a narrow street, possibly by building a sidewalk along the property line. Ilse asked if the bike trail was realistic with the houses so close to the street. She did not want to provide a trail endin� in the nei�;hborhood with no place to go_ O'Sullivan said there are no homes along that area. Gaffron asked Ilse how we could make Olive "bike friendly" without making a bike trail. Ilse said she saw it as more of a walking path. 10 NIlNUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK CONIMISSION MEETING HELD ON N4VENLBER 4, 1996 (#10 -Review of 05ullivan Application - Continued) Flint stated that the Caunty map shows a bikeway extending a11 the way along County Road 19 from Highway 12 to Tonka Bay. This ties into the C�rono Trail Plan which shows a bike trail along County Road 19 intersecting with a trail to the east along County Road 51 (North Shore Drive). The County Trail Plan also shows an independent corridor trail alang the Dakota Rail Line. Gaffi-on said one more to�ic to consider other than that of a subdivision is that of a vacation of a public dedicated right-of-way_ He asked if O'Sullivan should pay for it rather than it being a City cost. O'Sullivan, when asked, said he would prefer not to have to pay the cost. O'Sullivan said he was meeting with the Watershed District on Wednesday of this same week He noted that if the retention pond needs to be bigger, it would graw to the south. With retaining walls of 8-10' in height, the construction cost of a trail would be exorbitant. It initially was his desire to grow the pond across Navarre Lane, which could not be done. He is unable to go to the north due to the topography and if needs to go ta the west, he would have to abandon the project. Due to this, O'Sullivan said he does not understand how the ramp could be effectively done. He asked all of the Commissioners to drive Navarre Lane and look at the grade. O'Sullivan said he cannot see a ramp heing viable with the slopes present. McDernlott asked if the vacation was all the way to Olive. Gaffron said that is how it is being proposed. The church parcel contains one half of it with the Lafayette Ridge property the other half. O'Suliivan noted that the ramp would have to go on the Lafayette Ridge portion. Gaffi-on noted that the Planning Commission would review the hardcover, lot coverage by structure, setback for parking, and height variances at their November 18 meeting. The Council will review the plans at their December 12 meeting, which will be held after the Park Commission meets again in December. Flint said that the time to review was naw, while the project was in the ptanning sta�e. McDermott asked whether the Lafayette Ridge Association wouid agree to building the trail on their portion of the vacation. O'Sullivan commented that the staircase would not be an option far bikes and handicap access. Beal asked where the funding would come from. O'Sullivan questioned whether it would be the developer or the City paying the cost adding that the ramp would be an excessive cast with the need for fill, fencing, and a guard rail. Flint said he would like Shawn Gustafson of Bonestroo to review what would be required before the question of who should pay far it be addressed. Gaffron said the City shfluld be reimbursed in some way for the vacation. Gaffron said the grading plan witl �robably show what grading will be necessary on Navai7e Lane. Without the vacation, Gaf�'ron sard there would be the opportunity for pedestrian access through Navarre Lane. He added that it would be difficult for Gustafson to review without the site and grade plan. 11 MINUTES OF THE RECrULAR ORONO PARK CONIMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEIVIBER 4, 1996 (#10 - Review of O'Sullivan Application - Continued) Flint asked that the slope of Olive be considered. McDermott said the path now goes through the center of the street by CaRd 19, while the activity is geared towards the intersection of CoRds 15 and 19. Severai examples were given of how trails should be a straight shot to an area as people will take the path of least distance to get to their objective. O'Sullivan said lus design consultant suggested that the trail not be located until it is seen how it wouid be used. He felt there wauld be an incline along Navarre Lane and felt it made more sense to have a trail along Olive. He aiso noted, that with the retaining walls, people cannot cut across. O'Sullivan said the Iocation of the trail was displayed at the public meetings, and those in attendance saw no problem with the location as designated. O'Sullivan said if the trail comes on the north side with a sidewalk on his side of the property, it would lead directly across the street fr�m the municipal lot. Flint suggested the trail cut diagonally behind the pond from Navarre Lane. McDermott said the trail could not fit in between the retaining wall and the pond. O'Sullivan said it would also have to be set fln pilings. McDermott said he would prefer the trail straight along Navarre Lane but cantaurs would have to be reviewed. Gaffron noted that there would possibly be a l 0'high wal} to the east of the buildings and elevation about 946' for the pond. The elevation at the street level at Shadywood is 962'. Gerhardson said the ADA requirements would also have to be reviewed to determine difficulties with the grade for both options. He also noted that the Olive Avenue option is across the street from a City park Flint asked if the trail comes out of the property where proposed, why that would not be a good option_ It was noted that the trail would have to cross two driveways to get to the intersectian and across an uncontrolled intersection. It was also noted that all businesses face away from the street. Gaffron asked the key question of where was the destination of people traveling along the trail would it be the park or the Navarre area. All of the Commissioners agreed that the Navarre area would be the destination. With that, Flint asked O'Sullivan to see if he could bring the trail down along the middle along Navarre Lane. Flint n�ted that the contour of Olive is 22' upwards. I1se feIt that whatever is done for those people in the area should be carefully considered and done well to give those people the message that the City �ares about their neighborhoad. Gaf�i-on reviewed the purposes of the B-5 zaning as providing businesses to serve the neighboring residential area. He noted that by bringing in a trail, it would be a positive step and part of the whole scheme in beautifying the Navarre area. Beal asked how much of a drop there woutd be in grade noting the fill ttlat has already been brought in by O'Sullivan. O'Sullivan said the drop was extreme at about 10'. 12 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMIVIISSION MEETING HELD OIV NOVEMBER 4, 1996 (#10 - Review of O'Sullivan Application - Continued) O'Sullivan asked how wide the path wauld have to be between the two parking areas along Navarre Lane. Flint said the current recommendation by some experts is 10' but the Park Commission has established 8' as standard. Gaffron asked if there was anything unique where a trail could be less wide. Flint said that 6' was just not wide enough for a two-way trail. McDermott noted that 6'was the width given on the north side, but he too felt 8' should be required. Ilse asked that the trail be carefully considered. Gaffron informed the Commission that there is 33' to look at. With the bank and parking lot and need for variances, Gaffron questioned whether the remaining right-of-way should be given up noting that 33' has already been vacated. He noted that the site could be hideous if there are no green areas. Flint asked who would be available for the Planning Commission meeting review. Gaf�ron said he would follow up with their recommendation of Navarre Lane at the meeting. O'Sullivan said he would look at the option and see if it will work. He noted there was still the question of the wall with most of the ramp on someone else's property. Gaffron said there is 20' between the pond and Navarre Lane and asked whether the trail can be accomplished within that space. Gaffron noted that if Navarre Lane is not vacated, there would be the possibility of a nice slope without retaining walls. Goetten also noted that the additional information gained from tlie meeting between the developer and the Watershed District will be valuable. Gaffron said a problem would arise if the pond needs to grow outside of the area currently designated. O'Sullivan said he was informed that the City had been waiting to vacate Navarre Lane for a long time, and he was surprised when this issue came up at�he Council meeting. Ilse a��ed u�hen vacations c�ccur, if there is a c�arge made or is it a gift. Gaffron said it is a gift. Once the City concludes that they have na need for the property, the property is usually then divided between the neighboring properties. Gaffi-on noted there is need for utilities in Navarre Lane, and an easement w�uld be taken; but the utility easement also may show the need for access. Gaffron said there is also room for bargaining if the developer wants the vacatian. Flint noted that assistance can be given with the pond by vacating a portion of the lane while maintaining the other half. Gaffron informed the Commission that the site plan for the Culver's Restaurant is already on the east side of the 33'. McDermott noted there would also be an additional 8' if the project was moved 8' over to the north with elimination of the Olive Avenue trail. Flint commented that there might not be room for a ramp. 13 MINUTES ClF T�IE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 4, l 996 (#1Q - Review of O'Sullivan Application - Continued} O'Suitivan asked, with the proposal, if he coutd expand anto the Navarre right-of-way. Gaffron said if the ramp were built and the eastern portion not vacated encroaching closer to the path, there would be a need for some space. ADJCIURNMENT Beal moved, McDennott seconded, to �c�journ at 1Q:�5 p.m. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 0. Richard N. Flint, Chair 1�