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HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-01-1996 Park Commission Minutes ORQNO PARK CCIMMISSION MEETING MINt1TES FQR APRIL 1, 1996 ATTENDANCE The Park Commission met on the above mentioned date with the fallowing members present: Chair Richard Flint, Commissioners Lili McMillan, Andrew McDermott III, Sherokee Ilse, and Jim White. Susan Wilson and Robert Howells were absent. Council Member Charles Keliey was present. Representing Staf�were Pubtic t�'�'orks Directar John Gerhardson and Recorder Sherry Frost. Chair Flint called the meeting to order at 7:15 p.m. (#1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES �F MARCH 4, 1996 MEETING On page 6, last sentence, the word "tenacious" was changed to "tenuous". McMillan moved, McDermott seconded, ta approve the Minutes of the March 4, 1996 Me�ting �f the Park Commission as anlended. �'ote: Ayes 4, Nays 0. (W11ite was not present during this agenda item.) (#2)WORK ON PARKS AND OPEN SPACE PLAN A. STATUS OF SUMMER INTERN REQIIEST B. I2E�'IEW' OF CURRENT PLAN C. SCHEDULE WORK SESSI�N W1TH CITY COUNCIL Flint voiced concern with a lack of communication with the City Council concerning where the�ark Camrr�;ssion is in regards to completion of the Parks and Open Space Plan. Flint said he felt the Council was of the opinion that the plan was near completion, which it is not. He noted that the Commission would like to meet with the Council to exchange ideas and gain their input into the plan. Flint said he had spoken with Moorse abaut the status of the request for a summer intern. Moars� said the anly dis�ussion concernin� an intern has been tllrough a memo with the Council. Council Member Kelley was informed that the cost of an intern should be less than $5,000 and is to pay for the intern researching each park with the input of the current staff(particularly Gerhardson,before he retires) in order to do: a) a drawing of each park an� its current layout and faejlities; b) any restrictions an usage contained in deeds or other documents, and c)and the parks' location and surroundings. Kelley said he would b�in€ave�Y c��'approving the use of an intern and wc�uld communicate with the other Council members. The intern would be involved in parts VI, IX, and a portion af II (reasoning behind why a park was created}, of the park plan. McDermott said 75% of item II was now complete. t MINLITES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON APRIL 1, 1996 (#2 Parks and Open Space Plan - Continued} Kelley said there is concern over accesses to Lake Minnetonka and whether the various fir�lanes are public accesses. He noted there were many deeds not recorded which has resulted in issues being unresolved. Kelley said a whole study could be done on accesses aione. He felt this wauld be an important area to identify. Item WII was noted to be campleted by McDermott. Items II and III are partially complete, and it was decided that McDermott wauld complete these two items b_y the R�Iay meeting of the Park Commission. McDermott said the park survey will be attached to item III, along with a summary sheet. Flint said item III will be reviewed to ensure that all critical areas are covered. The first four pages of the survey will be attached with the remainder listed as an app�ndix to the plan. Item IIB, a policy statement, will be completed by Flint. The draft will then be reviewed with the Council. 1VIcMillan said the current plan is written in the first person and would like to see the persana�e;�tr,�ved. She also suggested the second paragraph of the introduction concerning the transportation corridor be rewritten. It was noted that open land did not necessarily mean the land was undeveloped. It was atso suggested that the sentence referring to Medina "facing enarmous develapment pressures be changes to "substantial" development pressures in paragraph two. McDermott asked that each Park Commission present a list of 3-5 written objectives describing what they would like to see done between now and the year 2000. McDermott said the lists would be discussed and both aecepted and unaccepted ideas would be itictu�ee� to shaw in the future what dire�tion the Park Cotnmission wants to see taken. McDermott asked Flint ta include in his objectives the bike trails and where they should lead. He asked that the objectives be specific. Ilse suggested the Commission consider whether it is the responsibility of the City to provide for the needs of organizations, such as baseball, soccer, etc., ar is it looked at as a cooperative effort. The objectives are ta be given to Ilse by April l7 so she can compile the list for review at the next meeti�g. The entire plan will be reviewed at that meeting ta enab(e a work session to be scheduled with the Council later in May. Conclusions will then be completed. White said both short and long term goals should be included and then prioritized. McI'iermoii asiced that the "nuts and boits" of each goal also be included. 2 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON APRIL 1, 1996 (#3) UPDATE ON REQUEST FOR ADDITI4i�iAL SOFTBALL FIELDS FOR 1996 Ilse updated the Commission on the decision by the Council regarding the use of Bederwoad for an additional night of baseball in the upcoming season. Ilse said the Cauncil w���ld not deviate from the contract. She said Kieman, OBA representative, a�reed that Q�A did n�t wish to change the contract but asked if there was a way to accommodate the softball and baseball organizations. The option of playing at the school or at the church near Saga Hill park was discussed, as well as a third option of Hackberry if repairs were made. Gerhardson said the final repairs would be completed this year. The need to provide for residents in all the communities represented was also brought forward. McMilian said the players from�rono represent 35%, 17% from Maple Plain, down to 9% from Independence, and 3% from Minnestrista. Kelley noted the fields available and who they were used by. McMillan said there were no areas in many of the parks for baseball and could not see the City satisfying all the needs of organized sports. She reminded the Commission of the recent survey, which indicated that Orono residents favored passive parks for preservation of open space, nature walks, wildlife, etc. McDermc�tt st�ggested one of the objectives of the park plan might be to buy additional iand t� answer the growing need for play fields. Kelley said the land near CoRd 6 and Old Crystal Bay Road would be an excellent place to provide fields to relieve this added pressure. He later added that the overflow parking with the ice arena would handle the traffic. Ilse noted that the Commission had long favored this area for fields for organized sports. Flint suggested an all-purpose field. Kelley said he did not think the City should get involved. He noted that if the desire was strang, the private segment wauld come farward to meet the need. The recent efforts by the Orono Hockey Boosters for the proposed ice arena was noted. The use of Hackberry for baseball was discussed. White felt the fields at Lee Carlson were the best for this need. Kelley said Hackberry coutd be used for t-ball and soccer. Flint said it would be a mistake to provide far arbanized sports in all City parks. Ilse said she suggested to Tom Hallquist, the president of the girls' softball association, tha�t they look community wide for options. She also said the organizations should check with Community Education, who could link up with groups to help facilitate and be a vehi�le fc�r a possible lease. 3 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON APRIL 1, 1996 (#3 Sc�ftball Fields - Continued) Kelley said there could be a problem with Holbrook if Hwy 12 is developed. That site would be lost. McMillan asked if that park land would have to be mitigated, but the questic�n was where appr�priate land for mitigation could be found. Ilse said Meyer, representing the girls' softball at the last Council meeting, informed the Council there were additional needs for fields with two new teams plus a 19+ team. Meyer was asked if Hackberry could be used. Kelley said it was not large enough and would only accotnmodate the younger children. Kelley suggested possible life estates be set up to gain future park property. McDermott said this could be a park plan objective. Flint was not hopeful that this could be ae�amplished for organized team fields, since these could not be just established anywhere in the community. It was agreed that if the softball organization wants additional fields, they should pursue the request, but that the best location, consistent with overall City objectives, appeared to be on the school property at CoRd 6 and Old Crystal Bay Road. (#4) INTERIOR TRAILS ON DICKEY/COFFIN DEVELOPMENTS The dezreloper has asked what type of surface the City recommends on the interior trails in this subdit�ision. It is a public trail that would be installed by the developer but be maintained by the City. The City Council resolution approving the trails did not state what kind of trail this would involve. The trails are identified on the plat map. One trail leads south to the DNR land and then to the Luce Line. One possible trail would connect, by trail only, East and West Countryside. A second trail leads north through the park land and east to Thoroughbred Lane to the cul-de-sac. 1VIcDermott noted the difficulty with the steep topography in an area. Any surface other than concrete or asphatt was said to eventually wash away. Kelley a�ked what made the DNR trail great. He noted that it was just a walking trail and gave the perception af walking in the woods. McDermott said that without a defined trail, peo�te iuould wander off the trail. Kelley said the trail could then be marked. The Cammission had discussed the need to establish the trails now in order to avoid future problems with the residents within the subdivision. Even though the easements would always be there on record, it was noted that it would be difficult to establish the trails at a later date. Kelley suggested that if the trails were not built at this time, the developer should place the money in escrow. � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETI�1�HELD ON APP�IL 1, 1996 (#4 Interior Trails on Dickey/Coffin Development - Continued) Ilse said the plat plan given to perspective homeowners did not designate the park and trails. �„G ;ai� she favvret3 putting in the trails at this time, but she felt it was important to talk with the neighbors. McMillan said she was concerned with limestane washing into homeowners lawns and receivine comnlaints because of it. Suggestions were made to view the lay of the land, along with speaking to the neighbors. White suggested the possibility of a low fence line or low monuments. Kelley agreed with this 5c�lutic�n. Ilse moved, McDermott seconded, ta recommend a bituminous trail between Countryside Easi and �ountryside i�'est and the remainder of the tr�ils be designated with permanent monuments, 10' apart along property lines, extending 3' deep to prevent heaving, and 12" above �round. The develoner is to be invited to come before the Park Commission at the May meeting with a proposed plan for the monuments. Vote: Ayes 5, Nays 0. Flint pc�ir,��d cU�that th;s decisi�n is only advi��sy to the City C�uncil. (#5) PLANNING FOR PARK TOUR AT J[TNE MEETING The following lacations will be considered for the park tour in June: (?ld Crystal Bay Park Saga Hill B�a:,;zs F1SI71Tt�PiBi'S New DNR Boat Ramp Dickey Praperty - Park and Interior Trails Lowry�'c�c�ds Highwoc�d�Tature Trail (#6) CONSIDERATIOIY OF 1996 BIKE TRAIL CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM (CIT�' S'i'A FF) Flint said City Engineer, Glenn Cook, was asked to determine how far the bike trails could be constructed along �id Crystal Bay Raad for $100,000 to enable the City to use the matching grant, which would be in the amount af$50,000. It was noted that the grant monev couid be used to assist with land purchase and construction of trail. but not for sewer costs or road improvements. The costs to be provided will include the engineering cost. Ii i�ihe Commissie�ri's- recommendati�n that the trail be extended this year to the bridge area or to Hwy 12. It was noted that the City and Hennepin Parks are awaiting a decision concerning Hwy 12 on the�akzr�ark area of the trail. 5 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON APRIL l, 1996 (#7) SUBI3IVISION REVIEW OF APPLICATI4N #2130 - NORBERT JOHNSON, ��Rt ��T�,�l�TTIRCT TRA�T. Jim Stefanson, representing Saga Hill Preservation Society, inquired how the Park Dedication fund received its credit from properties and questioned if a trail could be established through the Johnson property, which is currently under application proceedings for sub�ivi�ion. h1ci�lillan did nat see the need for such a trail with access available through Wildhurst Trail. She did note, however, that Wildhurst grade was very steep. Stefanson said he was concerned with the runoff issue from this property into the residential area nearby. Mr. Rasmussen was present and added that the runoff currently drains to his yard. McMillan informed Rasmussen that the Planning Commission would address this concern during their review� of the application. Flint, as well as McDermott and White, saw the approach on Wildhurst as being very diff;cult f�r travel. Flint said he did nat abje�t tG ���aining the 8°�0 of land for Park Dedication but did not view the access considered as the best access. A consideration discussed was obtaining a pedestrian easement over the existing drainage and utiiity easement. Ilse said she would need to obtain some sense of where the Saga Hill Group were in realizing the funds necessary to purchase the bank property in order to consie��r suLh an easement. Itse noted that if the group were unabie to purchase the bank property, there would be no need to gain this easement as it leads to the bank property and not to the park property in process of bein� owned by the City. Stefanson said the group has raised about 1/3 ofthe necessary funds. It was noted that this amount includes the grant portion. I�IcDermott inquired if the grant included a stipulation that the bank property be turned over to the City as park land. The answer was unknown by any present. The City is assisting in obtaining the grant tnoney for the group by their application �br the grant. The gt�ant money does go to the City. . Ste�nson inquired if the Park Dedication money which could be obtained from this subdivision could be donated towards tt�e purchase of the bank pro�erty. He was infarmed by�Flint that such a recomrnendatiori could be mad�. How�;v�r, �'lir�t said t�,e Sa�a HiII group was informed that they were respor�����'car raisingt#�e necessary fi�ds. Flint said if the group came close to raising the necessar�r arnount, there was the,possrbil.ity that tt-i�City n�ay consider such an option. � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETP�TG HELB ON "�nIL l, 1996 (#7 Norbert Johnson - Continued) Ilse asked Johnson if he had considered constructing a trail to the park land. Johnson said he diu r,i,t velieve it would have any bearing on his praperty as the homeawners could walk there from their own property. It was noted that only one of the properties abut the park propert_y and wauld, therefore, not be obtainable by the other homeawners. The Commission nated that a trail woutd be an integral part of a good neighborhood. Johnson said the easement was tor drainage and utilities. He added that there was only two lots that did not abut the easement area. When asked by McDermott, Flint said the road for the subdivision could be either private or public. Ilse commented that if Garden Lane was already platted, there would be no need to obtain the trail through the subdivision since access to the park property could be gained from Garden Lane. Johnson said he was concerned that residents of other areas would drive to L�G l:UI-UG-S�.C, park, and then walk.to the park �raperty bringing extra traffic to the area. Ilse said the trail easement being referred to would not present access to the park property itself. Gerhardson asked if the trail easement would extend from the cul-de-sac to the bank park property aver the drainage easement. Flint responded that consideration of this option should result in increased value to the lots in the subdivision with access to the park property. Flint noted that a public easement would be included in the calculation for the 8% Park Dedicatian, but if the easer�ent was private, it wauld not. McDermott asked if it was passible to take a portion of the 8% via the easement and the remainder in cash. Ilse asked for consideratian of another option. She asked the Commission and developer to consider a private traii over the easement as the trail would only accommodate those living in the subdivision. Ilse did not believe taking a public easement would be a good way ta spend City money. Flint said he did nat see it as a secondary access. Ilse responded that this would all be assuming that the bank property was obtained. MeMillan maved, White seconded, ta recommend taking cash for the Park Dedication. 1VIcIvliiian said it would be great if the developer decides to add an internal trail but could nat see spending the Park Dedication amount for a possible future access. Flint responded that if only a 10' easement totaling 1500 s.f., or 3000 s.f. if 20' were taken, oui of a total devetopment of 7 acres, it wouid be less than 10°io of 1 acre. Flint did not see this as a signiticant doilar amount. Flint said without a public access, a problem could be crEate� ar,� sa;� ;t a� a;nistal:e nc�t ta take this small trail easement for Park Dedication. 7 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PA_RK COMMISSION �L'IEETING H:ELD O�r APRIL l, 1996 (#7 Norbe� 7ohnson - Continued) Ilse asked Rasmussen his opinion of such a trail from a neighbor standpoint. Rasmussen sa�th�i�ait �asement as a large advantag� and resultiri�in reduced parking. Ilse questioned if the raad was private, if a person could walk dawn the road who did not liv� iii it;c subdivision. Kett�y infornied ti�e Con7mission that this area was sewered which would most likely result in the City taking the road as public. Flint said this would not make a difference as he saw the access as avaiiable for the homeowners in the subdivision. McDermott and Ilse asked if Garden Lane could be used as a trail. McMillan noted that if this was accomplished, the Cit_y would have to maintain it. McDermott said it wauld just be an easement and could be left as it is adding that Garden Lane might not be changed. White noted a lot with the driveway over the drainage easement. He also commented that three of the iots were adjacent ta the easernent teaving only two that would not have access ta the drainage easement. Ilse commented that she would wish the developer would see the reason for making a trail if the;e�ad wa5 private. If the road was public, Ilse �aid this then cQuld be used ta gain access to the trail. Different viewpoints came from members on how residents respond to other people coming onto a private road, both allowing it and forbidding it. Johnson said he was unsure how he felt about such a traiL If an access was done, Johnson felt it would he used by peaple from ather areas and result in cars being parked on Wildhurst. Suggestions of no parking signs were given. Flint questioned what the tapagraphy was of the bank property to the east of Garden Lane. Stefanson said this portion was flat, but then dropped off. Gerhardson said there was a 20' drop in grade from the Johnson praperty to the bank property. Flint said he wauld be troubled by not taking 8% of the property. He noted the area as environmentatty sensitive and close to the area the City is looking at for a park. White respanded that it was unknown whether the bank wauld be obtaining the land. It was noteci that the area around the ravine was unusable. Flint suggested making the recommendation of taking 8% of the land cantingent on the bank property being obtained. Tti��i�bi�n� found with this option was the Coui�c.it would be considering a recommendation for approval prior to the grant deadline. McMiitan said she understood what Flint was saying but as a property owner, she did not like decisions made contingent an other Gvents occurring. s MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON �RIL 1, 1996 (#?Norbert Johnson - Continued) Ilse said she would consider the trail easement if the developer would not agree to internal trails; �u�ii tiG money were obtained, Ilse woul� lik�to see the m�ney used ta assist the Saga Hill group in obtaining the bank property. Flint said the money amount would prabanly anly amount to about $5,000. McDermott thought it would be better to give the money than a small piece of land. Flint noted that it would be best for the developer for the easement to be taken and then never go in, but it would be the worst case scenario for the City. McDermott mo��ed, White seconded, to amend the motion to take a 10' pedestrian easement to Garden Lane across ihe drainage and utility easement with the remainder of the Park fee to be paid in cash. Vote: Ayes 3, McDermott, White, Flint; Nays 1, McMi;;an, Abstain 1, Ilse. Amendment to m�ti�n passed. Vote an main motion with amendment af 10` pedestrian easement: Ayes 5, Nays 0. 3ohnson asked if the motion was tied to parking on Wildhurst. He was informed that it was not and should be discussed with the Council. (#8) UPDATE �N LOWRY WOODS ACC:ESS AND HIGHWOOD NATURE TRAI�,raRItING Flint reparted that the access to Lowry Woods is unresolved. The options were being considered. i he_y include access over the wetland area from the Luce Line, the developed cul-de-sac, the triangle shaped portion of land separating the park from the road, and the road itself via an easerr,ent. (#9) SAGA HILL UPDATE Jim Stefanson was in attendance represeniing Saga Hil( Preservation Society. He reiterated to the Comrnission that the group nad a si�ned purchase agreement with Midway Bank for the Saga Hill property anc} is in the process of fund raising. The grant deadfine is 7uly 1, 1996. The lacation of the easement access an the Valek property was discussed, along with the Va1ek`s request in obtaining an additional half acre of property. The current easement is 10' wide. The City has requested the easement be 20' wide. The easement is also being cansid�r�u far reiocatian on the property to accommodate bath the Valek's and the City. 9 MINUTES OF THE RECJULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION l�1EETING HELD ON APRIL 1, 1996 (#9 Saga Hill Update - Continued) Another easement on the church property is under consideration by the church and City to �ain access to the park praperty. N1cMillan reparted that the City Staff has met with church officials. A concern was voiced by the church officials regarding liability arising from public use of their property. Park Commission was also concerned with the permanency of such an easement if there was any change in church property ownership. Council Member Kelley said this option could also present a future parking problem. Flint said the City could cover the insurance under their insurance umbrella to alleviate the iiabiliiy ie�r th� chu�-ch as latjg as the chur�h is at� ac�ditional nat��ed insured on the City's insurance. Flint did note, hawever, that this does not eliminate the problem with the easement itself. Ilse asked if ihe church was affiliated with a mother chureh and if the Saga Hills representatives present at the meeting knew whether the local church had the autharty�a g►-ant such an easement. Stefanson suggested the City speak with the deacans of the church. Flint suggested the City also look at the current arrangement, which seems to be working very well, whereby, parking at Trinity Lutheran Church is used for access to the DNR park at V�olsfeld Woods. (#10) OTHER BUSINESS There was no additional business discussed. ADJOURNMENT Ilse moved, White seconded, to adjourn at 10:10 p.m. Vote: Ayes 5, Nays 0. ., J� '� - _ �t - ; �L-.� �i" t,y Richard N. Flint, Chair 1[t