HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-05-1996 Park Commission Minutes OR�NO PARI� COMMISSION MEETING
MINLITES FQR F�BRUARY 5, 199fi
ATTENDANCE
The Park Cammission met on the above date with the following members present: Chair
Richard Flint, Lili McMillan, Robert Howeils, Andrew McDermott III, Sherokee Ilse,
Susan Wilson, and James V�hite, who arrived during agenda item#3. Representing Staff
were Public Works Directar John Gerhardson and Recorder Sherry Frost. Chair Flint
called the n�eeting to order at 7:25 p.m. �
(#1)APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF JANUARY 2, 1996 MEETING
The first two sentences of the last paragraph on page 3 of the January 2, 1996 minutes
were changed to read: "Ilse asked if the softbali participation was growing. She inquired
about the policy regarding who can play."
Howells moved, Ilse seconded, to approve the Minutes of the Park Commission Meeting
of January 2, 1996, as amended. Vote: Ayes 5, Nays 0, Abstain l, McMillan, who was
not present at that meeting.
(#2) SAGA HILLS UPDATE - PATTI AFFELDT
Patti AfFeldt, representative for the Saga Hill Preservation Group, said she was aware of
the County's plan to sel} a portion of what was considered the ta}c forfeit parcel. The
a�reement is on hold until the end of March. She has spoken with Pat O'Connor of the
Tax Forfeit Office of Hennepin County. Moorse is also in contact with the County.
Wilson stressed the importance of a City officiai working with the County on this issue.
Affeldt said the bank, who is the current owner of the parcel the preservation group is
attempting to purchase, prefers to sell to their group and is, at this time, willing to hold the
property indefiniteiy. Affeldt told Flint that she understands the purchase price is at
$I45,000 for 11.75 acres. The�roup is working with the adjoining neighbors, notifying
them of their plans and of the process. Affeldt said the land north of their specified parcel
is being considered for development at this time. Affeldt said the objective of the group is
to save as much of the area as possible for open space.
Affeldt said it was her understanding that the County is considering spiitting off the tax
forfeit�arcel, selling a portion to the Valek's, selling the portion to the narth on the open
market, and maintaining the middle section for the City.
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MINUTES �F THE IZEGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 1996
(#2 - Saga Hilt - Contintted)
Wilsan inquired about the fund raising. Affeldt said the group has received a couple
grants. She was not aware of the amaunt of money raised but said the group is working
with larger foundations to raise the majority of the money. Affeldt told McDermott that
she is hopeful that the money would be raised by March. When asked by Wilson what
would happen if the money was not raised by March, she noted the $50,000 grant that has
been recei�red, and the American Swedish lnstitute has shown interest in the effort.
Affeldt asked for the support of the Park Commission. All of the Cammissioners present
voiced their approval of the efforts of the preservation group.
�#3)UPDATE ON REQUEST OF USAGE OF BEDERWOOD PARK FOR GIRLS
S4FTBALL
Kevin Hawkinson of the Orono Baseball Association and Tam Hallquist of the Orono
Softball Association were present.
Flint said the request was being continued from the last Park Commission meeting
regarding the additional usage of Bederwood by the Giris Softball Association to be
traded for time at Halbrook with the Boys Baseball. Flint noted receipt of three ietters
from neighbors, Meredith`s, Kroll's, and Whitman's. Meredith's noted acceptance of three
nights but not for four nights of organized use.
Wilson asked how the property became under the City's ownership and if there were any
promises or commitments made in relationslup to the property and its use. Gerhardson
said the property was purchased , not donated, and it was unclear whether any pramises
were made. Ilse said the owners came to the Park Commission meeting at the time of sale
and asked that nfl organized sports take place in the park; however, there is nothing in
writing.
Flint read the letters from Kroll and Whitman, both stating their preference that no
additional nights for baseball be allowed.
Hallquist commented that softball membership has doubled in the last three years with 29
softball teams, GO for baseball, for a totat af 89 teams, not including traveling teams.
Hallquist said additianal facilities are needed to accomodate these numbers. He said
attempts are being made to gain cooperation from other communities as well so the total
supply of playing space does not come from one community alone.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, l 996
(#3 -Bederwood Park - Continued)
Hallquist said the rec�uest is to add another night usage at Bederwood to be traded with
the baseball association for a night at Holbrook. He noted that the boys program has paid
$28,000 ta play at Bederwood and received $20,000 from the City for the Lee Carlson
Field. There is stili $8,QOQ left outstanding at Bederwood, which in his opinion should not
be taken away from the boys. He noted there is an attempt to gain another field at
Rainbow, if the ability is there for electricity for the pitching mechanism.
Wilson asked if Rainbow, Independence, and the Orono Schools are signed up for field
usage. Hallquist said time is set aside on Saturdays at Rainbow and are doing their part in
providing fields. Independence has no fields to offer as of yet. The Middle School has
two fields with back stops and one without a backstop. Four regulation fields are for use
at the high schaol. The field behind Schumann Building is small. Two nights are being
used at the high school for softball games. Hallquist said there are not enough fields for
games, and practices double up with two teams using a field.
Hallquist noted that the 7-10 age group piays teams in house, or amongst each other's
teams. The 11 and up age groups play amongst three associations. The North
Minnetonka Association has a recreational in house play with some travel, and the
Suhurhan League plays for competition. The 19+team is newly formed. There are also
alot of requests for a slow pitch program but no field is available.
Hallquist said it is their desire for the building of a 4-field complex with cooperation trom
the schools but noted the space is needed for soccer and hockey. Hallquist said if two
fields were a�quired at Lee Carlson for use by the boys baseball, it would be ideal. A
softball field camplex could then be build at the schoal, where the girls could watch one
another play. Hallquist said this was wishful thinking. Flint asked if this was a need.
Hallquist said it would depend on demographics. Ilse said the 4th and Sth grade classes
are the largest by far, but there are smaller classes caming up amongst yaunger children.
Ilse said she had spaken with Hawkinson regarding approaching Maund and other cities
who feed children into the open enrollment at Orono. It was her understanding that there
were fields available. Hallquist responded that there are different league programs. He
said there were very few fields in Mound. Hallquist said there are only four players now
from Mound schools but all have Orono addresses. He said if the policy opened up
registration to Mound, they would have to open it up to other areas.
Hallquist provided charts and a matrix regarding softball and baseball usage which are
attached ta the minutes.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 1996
� (#3 - Bederwood Park- Continued)
Hawkinson responded that two fields in Medina are being used for t-ball when asked by
McMillan. McMillan noted that the Lions were building a field south of Hamel and asked
the association to talk with Medina officials. It was reported that Morningside field was
used for Medina children only. 1VIcMillan commented that Orono teams consist of
children from Medina too. The fields in Medina were said to be small.
Haliquist reported that Long Lake charges $5 a night to play at Holbrook Park.
Ilse asked that the association coordinate with the Park Commission on organizing
meetings with a#her communities. Hawkinson said he has spoken with Jack Veach of the
Orono School Board, who reported that he is proposing a sports board commission. Ilse
noted the lack of a recreation department within the City, and the importance of all groups
to work together.
Hawkinson commented on the forementioned meeting of March of 1990 regarding the use
of Bederwood Park He believed that it was said that Bederwood was to serve more than
the neighborhood and added that he did not think it was a contradiction to ask for more
usage for playing ball. McMillan said the comprehensive plan noted specific activities that
could take place at Bederwood but that this did not necessarily mean organized athletics.
Flint said the 1980 plan calls for a neighborhood park to be more active and to serve more
than the immediate area. This would include Bederwood, which is classified as a
neighborhood park McMillan said the use was for field games, but not listed under
intensive-active or specifying athletics. Flint recalled that the recent survey outcome was
for a preference for open space and nature trails. Organized activities was not a high
priority in the survey. He did however, note the receipt by the Orono Baseball
Association of the Friends of the Park award in 1995.
Hawkinson commented that he came to the meeting to shaw cooperation between
arganizations. He added that, in addition to the neighbors of Bederwood who wrote
letters received by the Park Commission, there were neighbors who are in favor of more
baseball being played at the park. Hawkinson noted the term, "park full of people" in one
letter, and commented that this is what a park is for. He added that it was the grandson of
the previous owner, Larson, who spoke at the Council meeting of 3/26/90.
McMiilan asked what nights the field is used for basebali and was told Tuesdays and
Thursdays. Hawkinson cammented that if the park was left open, the baseball fields
wouldn't be used. He noted the difficulty in scheduling 60 teams and the future needs of a
possible aduIt league.
McMillan asked if there was such a field as a multi-use field. Hallquist said four fields at
the high school were multi-use. The softball fields are used up through the 8th grade.
Baseball was said to have different pitching distances.
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NIINUTES OF THE REGULAR�}ROI'�IO PARK COMMISSIQN
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 199b
(#3 -Bederwood Park - Continued)
Hawells asked what happens with games that are rained out. Hallquist said it was
impossible to reschedule. The fields were said to be in use frorn mid May for games and
beginrring in April for prac,�tices to mid 3uly.
F}int said he wa�impressed with the similarities between Little League, baseball and
softball when studying configurations c�f the fields. He noted the pitching, baseball line
and the batters bax, which is l' different. Pitching mounds were where the bi�;difference
came into play. Softball pitches at 35' far 12-under and at 40'for 14-IS year oids.
Baseball is pitched at 46'for l2-under, 54' for 13 year olds, and b0' for 14+.
Wilson commented that the Commission is in favor of pro�rams fdr ehildren and the
question was whether more use could be impased on Bedenuood Park, and how both
constituencies could be represented. Flint added that the solutian woutd need to be
created without changing the nature of the park. Wilson said the park should tolerate a
certain amount of use.
Flint reparted that the prablem he had was with the trading off of the fields between
softbal!and baseball. He added that the park should not be designated as a Little League
fieid. He did agree that the issue was how marry nights and what association could play
there.
Wiison asketl and was told that the mound couid not be taken out at Bederwood. Wtien
asked softball could be played in frant of the mound area. Hallquist said the ASA
recommended that this not be done. He also addect that he would not play softball on a
grass 8eld as it would tear up the infield. Haliquist said he wanted to give the boys a field
suitable for their play. He did not think it was fair to taice a field away from them and
would not do so.
Howells moved, White seconded, to r�commend approval of the use of Beclerwood far
two additiana� nights for softball with the promise�'rom the assaciation to Iocate another
field for 1997 season. Wiison asked how often the field was currently being used and was
told two nigk�ts a week.
iIse said she has spoken with Ran Movrse, the Mayor of Long Lake, and the Park
Commission Chair of Long Lake and was told that Long Lake was not interested in a
trade. She also reported that Moorse asked the Park Cammission not to under�nine the
decision of the Council fQr two nights of play at Bederwood.
I-�allquist responded that softbatl car�ot be played at Bederwood as they required a dirt
infield and no pitching mound. Hawkinson said this arrangement would only wark for in-
house garnes and baseball fields would be requireti for tournament use.
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1V�TUTES OF THE REGULAR QR�NO PARK COIvIMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, I 9R6
(#3 -Bederwaad Park- Continued)
McIVl�llan inquired about concession stands. Hallquist said the softball association has a
concession stand at Halbrook Witson conf rmed witl�Hailquist that they were not
interested in playin� softball at Bederwaod. Flint suggested the OBA could run the
concession stand. Hallquist said parents are not interested in running a concession stand
fpr an association their children are not invalved with.
White suggested withdrawing his secand to the �otion if there was no support for 4
nights of usage. Flint commented that the motion indicates what the Park Commission is
willing ta do for the association. Hallquist asked and was told th�t if the motion was
passed it would be brought before the Council. Flint said that the baseball association has
a park at Lee Carison that is dedicated to baseball use already. He added that he sees the
field at Bederwood as being more than just for baseball only noting that it was only to be
used as a temporary measure. Flint said the usage would create more intensive play and
saw the motion as a good solution and sees the possibiiity af a muhi-use field.
Hallquist reiterated if the usage was designated for softball, the infields woaid need ta be
removed. Wiison asked if the field was altered to make it usable, who would pay for the
atterations. Flint said the motion was for the usage only, not for payment of alterations.
McMiltan further inquired if the motion passed, would alteration be allowed.
Vote: Ayes l, White, Nays 6. Motion denied. McMillan said she was concerned with
changing a field. Wilson questioned whether the neighborhood could tolerate 4 nights of
playing ba�l.
McDermott said he believed the request for usage shauld come from the group wanting
the use of the fieid.
Ilse inquired about shared use at Holbraok. She suggested other communities b� solicited
for assistance. Ilse �aid if other cc�mmunities would provide fields, consideration coutd be
given for 1 more night usage. Suggestions were made for 1 night at Bederwood for girls
softball and 1 night at Hackberry. Ilse alsa suggested the use of anath�r field at the
school. ilse said she wauld not support the usage of 4 nights at Bederwood as it
undermines the Council"s decision of 2 nights only.
Wilson said she would recommend 3 nights and usage by the Little League.
VJilson maved, McBermo#t seconded, to approve 3 nights of baseball at Bederwood. The
ihird nig�t use would be tradecl with the OBA for a night at Holbrook, since baseball
cannot b�played at Holbrook,
Flint said he was sympathetic with the neighbors of the park.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD QN FEB�UARY 5, 1996
(#3 -Bederwaod Park - Continued)
Hawkinson asked if the third night could be Saturday instead. Hallquist said Holbrook is
currently not used on Sat�rday far softball. Softbalt is being played at the high school on
Saturdays with the morning hours for saftbatl and the afternoon far Little League.
Haliquist said it would be helpfui to add one night.
Hailt�uist was asked if the third night would he for games or praetices. Games are piayed
on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Saturdays. After games hegin, the fields are used for twa
games and one practice. After the season begins, sotne teams drop their practice sessions.
Ilse asiced that the motian not be specific as to the use of the 3 nights of ball but to allow
the Council to make that decision. llse said she prefers week nights instead of Saturdays.
t�Vilson nated that the motion for 3 times for usage was to accamoc�ate the increase in
softba}l partiCipation and to free up time as Orono does not have the fields to he used for
softball.
Ilse as�ed that the mfltion be reviewed on a yearly basis. McDermott and McMillan
agreed.
'The motion was amended to stipulate a weekly usage af three times for baseball to free up
another field for saftball. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
Ilse asked that the game schedules be posted at the fields.
McDermott said the park should be advertised for usage ne� year to decide on who will
be playing.
Flint noted that the park improvements were paid by the baseball association.
McMillan said it was her opinion that the concession stand should be removed at
Bederwood and the field be used as more af a practice field. She added that the
associarion was the only group running the concession and did nat beiieve a group should
make money an City property without a more specific agreement. �Vilsan said if the
purpase was to diversify the use, then the field shouId be made multi-use. Ilse added that
if Holbrook could be shared, so could Bederwood.
(#4)HUCKEY BOOSTERS PRQGRESS REPORT
There vvas no progress report at this time.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMIVIISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 1996
(#5) PROGRESS REPC)RT �N WINTER USE OF ORONO GOLF COURSE AND
SKATING RINKS (GERHARDSON}
The Orono Golf Course is open for sledding on Saturdays from 12-4 p.m., which has been
advertised on the local newspaper. Gerhardson said Moorse has reported a large turnout
for this program. It was noted that Gear West is not participating in a Wednesday evenin�;
pragram this year.
McMillan said she would like the City to consider the possibility of making the clubhouse
non-smoking for this particular use. It was noted that the City facility is smoke-free but an
area af the clubhouse has been set aside for smoking. Gerhardson said he would check
into the request by McMillan.
The ice rinks were said to have good ice this year. The use has not been monitored,
however. White did note that Casco has had use by adults. Gerhardson said Staff has
received na comments from the Antoine Park area regarding the lack of an ice rink this
year. Howelis noted that boards and lights have been put up adjacent to the lake near
Antoine for skating.
(#6) SUBDIVISION APPLICAT[ON - NORBERT JOHNS4N, 1181 WILDHURST
TRAIL
Interest was noted in a possible trail an the ]l 81 Wildhurst property as the land abuts
Garden Lane, which neighbors the Saga Hill property.
Wilson asked if the Commission can reyuest land contiguous to the land under tax forfeit
consideration. Wilson said the decision taking land or money would depend on the
location of the land.
McDermott was concerned that taking land would result in making a designated lot non-
buildable and whether the subdivision was for 4 ar S lots. Gerhardson noted that the
application is in sketch plan review only at this time, and the determination of buildable
lots would be discussed.
Flint noted that the prQperty the Commission would like for a trail would be from Lot 3.
The amaunt of land would be 0.S acres. Ftint said the Commission definitely should
express interest in preserving the land next to the Saga Hill property. Flint asked for a
representative to attend the Planning Commission meeting of Februaty 20 where this
subdivision would be discussed. Wilson volunteered to attend that meeting.
Wilson moved, Howells seconded, to recommend that the Park Commission further
review the application for consideration of land for Park Dedication. Vate: Ayes 7, Nays
0.
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MINUTES OF TH� REGULAR OROTJO PARK COMMISSI�N
MEETINCz HELD ON FEBRUARY S, 1996
(#7)DOCK REPLACEMENT PROPOSAL
Gerhardsan reported th�t the roll-out docks under purchase consideration are of a metal
frame and 32' in length_
The Commission discussec! and agreed that the reptacement of the docks are considered
operations and maintenance and should not be paid from the Park Declication fund but,
rather, from improvements and equipment outlay. The Iimited fund was said to be for the
purpose of purchasing park land and substantial improvements of existing parks.
It was noted that docks and fishin�piers are under the park classification. Gerhardsan
said there are 4 fishing piers, ane at the Park Lane access, one at the Loma Linde access,
one at Stubbs B�y Road, and one on Carmen Street leading into Carmens Bay.
Wilson moved, McIlermott seconded, to recflmmend to the Councii that Parl�Dedication
fund nat be used far the purchase ofthe roil-out docks. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
{#S} pRONO PARKS AND OPEN SPACE PLAN
Ils� noted that the current plar� is the draft dated 2/1/96.
McDermott reported that the park classifications will altow everyone to uncterstand alt of
the parl��eatures, beaches, piers, etc., wtthin the City. He noted that the fu-st section of
the draft is a background and history of the City to give a running histary for future
commissioners to reference. The date af incorporation in 1955 and the parks in 1970's
will be added. McDermott said the purpose at this time is to fine tune tl�e draft, adding ar
making changes where appropriate. The public survey will be an attachment to the plan
for reference purposes. A summary sheet of the survey will also be included.
White added that a chapter shawin�the mission of the park and master plan gaals should
be incorporated into the plan. The�ammissioners were asked to read through the goals
and objectives ta deterrnine if changes were necessary.
Alsa to be included in the park plan is information on fiscal management. It was notecl
that sources will need to be listea for the information contained within Lhe p}an.
The Commission looked at the draft, section by section, beginning with mini-parks.
McMillan notec�that the miru-park at Crystal Bay was heing considered for an ice rink and
half-court baskethall, which she felt was more definitive of a neighborhood park, but
Crystai Bay was anly 2 acres in size. White said the �creage could be more descriptive of
the open, usable space. The Commissianers decided to change the a�reage notations to 0-
2 a�res for mini-parks and 2-l 5 acres for neighborhood parks. It was noted that acreage
will be used as a general guideline only.
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MiNUTE5 OF THE REGt1I..AR OR4N0 PARK C�MMISSIQN
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, l 996
(#8 -Parks and Open Spaee Plan -eontinued)
In reviewing usage, Iight intensity wording was discussed. High inten�ity lighting was
defined as a daylight look for ni�ht time using high pressure sodium. White suggested
using the term "security lighting", or a description such as unobstrusive. The intent of the
usage such as the avoidance of glare or whether the desire is for no playing during the
evening was discussed. White suggested adding that the intent was not far high usage.
Gerhardsan noted ihat the ordinance stipulates no intensive use after 10:00 p.m.
It was determined that noise was an issue, and lights could be made non-intrusive. Ilse
suggested using the word, "lighting not to be intrusive and primarily far security."
McMillan guestioneci if a park is classified as mini, would this totally ex�lude such activity
as a half-court basketball. l�ricBermott said the activities are those twie�llv found in such
a park but does not exclude such a use.
White noted that a neighborhood park stipulated a limited organizational use. Wilson
commented that the use should be a range, rather than locking in to certain activities, since
cha.nge does occur. White said the number of days could be changed to say, "typically
used" far a certain time frame, i.e. 3/days week.
McMillan asked if another organization �sked for time at a park, such as t-ball, if that
usage would be considered under the time linut already aliocvable. McDermott said other
organizations could vie for the same time space.
White asked if the plan would state that permission for usage was needed. McDermott
said this shauid be added to the guideiines.
Gerhardsan asked if it was known that t-ball at Hackberry Park is played 3ldays a week.
Ilse said it was unknown but dzd know that bays'teams used the park on Tuesdays and
Thursdays. Gerhardson noted that Hackberry and Bederwood are also used for soccer.
Howells asked if l�arses were allowed in the parks. He was informed that horses were not
allQwed in the parks but did make connections to the Luce Line.
It was nated that no allowance for motarized vehicles is in t13e ordinance, but it should
aisQ be added for the park class�cation.
Under the Nature/Conservation Areas section, White suggested adding a percentage for
the standard af developed use. It was determined that the development of trails not
cansume more than 20°ta of developable land. The words, "not intended for snowmobile
use", will be eliminated as the ordinance already states that na motorizeci vehicles are
allowed. "Nature observation" will he added in pl�ce af"nature enhancement" in the
second paragraph.
10
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR 4RON0 PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 1996
(#8 - Parks and Open Space Plan - Continued)
It was noted that the canoe racks are available to Orono residents first before opening to
people residing in other areas under the Lake Access category.
Under Beaches, "unsupervised swimming - swim at your own risk", will be added. ,
Stubbs Bay and Smiths Bay will note availability for snowmobile access. Gerhardson
suggested it say, "winter use for motorized access," instead of snowmobile. White also
suggested the last sentence read, "�ublic and private lake access."
Under Linear Parks, "no horseback riding" would be added, and "no motorized vehicles"
would be eliminated as it is redundant.
White suggested including the rules of use section in the ordinance in the plan packet. He
also suggested including, "no motorized madel planes". It was discussed that mountain
bikes create problems with property and need to stay on trails only. The Commission will
add under the parks rules and ordinance section that mountains bikes are to be used on
designated trails only. Gerhardson said the ordinance would need to be amended.
McDermott said the Special Use section is a catch-a11 area. Ilse noted that each park will
have a descriptive page which will spell out its use, information an the site itself, such as
topography, size, physical and vegetative features, and specific intents. White asked that
the future intended use be stated also.
McDermatt asked that any additional comments be given to Ilse or himself as soon as
possible. The next step will be ta classify the parks under the plan, which will be done for
the work session with the Council.
{#9) OTHER BUSINESS
It was noted that McMillan will attend the ne�t Council meeting on February 12, 1496.
Wilson, Flint, and Howells will all be absent from the Park Commission meeting scheduled
for March 4, McMillan will act as chair at that meeting. It was emphasized that
McMillan, NlcDermott, Ilse, and White will all need to be in attendance in order to have a
quorum.
11
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD fJN FEBRUARY 5, 1996
ADJUUR1rtMENT
Ilse moved, V�lhite seconded, to adjourn the meeting at 10:10 p.m. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
Flint had absent�d himself from the meeting during agenda item#8.
_ ����'..��--�`
Richard N. Flint, Chair
12