HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-02-1996 Park Commission Minutes ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR JANUARY 2, 1996
ATTENDANCE
The Park Commission met on the above date with the following members present: Chair
Richard Flint, Park Commissioners Rabert Howells, Andrew McDermott, III., Sherokee
Ilse, Susan Wilson, and James White. Commissioner McMillan was absent. Representing
Staff were Public Works Director John Gerhardson and Recorder Sherry Frost. Chair
Ftint called the meeting to order at 7:25 p.m.
(#1)APPRQVAL OF MINUTES OF DECEMBER 4, 1995 MEETING
Howells moved, Ilse seconded, to approve the Minutes of the Park Commission Meeting
of December 4, 1995. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
(#2) OR4N0 SOFTBALL ASSOCTATION - 1996 S�FTBALL FIELD
UTILIZATION
Tom Hallquist was present to represent the Orono Softball Association and their request
to add two nights to the currently allowed two night usage of Bederwood Park for the
upcoming seasan. Hallquist is president of the association.
Hallquist reported registration for the softball association was 255 two years ago, 3401ast
year, with an expected response of 400+this year, not including t-ball participants. The
association plans on sending out 750 information and registration forms this month.
HalI9uist said the kids are the first priority of the association. There are plans to add a
19+program but is questionable due to the limited number of fields. There are 12 teams
for 7-10 year olds. Hallquist said this large participation takes away from other age
groups requiring the need for more fields far scheduled games. The association uses the
school fields also. Hallquist reported that Orono is hosting a national 4-day clinic in June
of 1996 by college coaches. A 14-under program tournament is also being hosted this
year. Hallquist said the association would like to give more exposure to the�;irls softball.
Hallquist reported that he was requesting the use of Bederwood due to the large softball
participation, but Bederwood is a baseball park with a pitcher's mound and cannat
currently be used by softball teams. Hallquist said the association was planning on adding
two more nights usage at Holbrook for the softball teams and swapping usage at
Bederwood for the OBA baseball teams. This would allow for 4 nights for baseball at
Bederwood and 4 nights for softball at Holbrook.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORON� PARK C�MMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JAN UARY 2, 1996
(#2 - Orono Softball - Continued}
Wilson questioned Hallquist about the fields being currently used by the association.
Hallquist said 4 fields are used in Maple Plain, 4 at the high school, 2 at the middle school,
with the grassed area at the schools used for the younger players. There are 9 major fields
used and 2 fields for the younger children. The smaller fields are used for the younger
children but the 12+ age children need usage of the major size fields. Hallquist said there
is a need for 12 major-size fields. He informed Wilson that the fields are open to usage by
the girls, but the girls play on softball teams only.
Ilse inquired if the fields at Rainbow are used by the association. Hallquist said a meeting
is scheduled with the Rainbow people on January 16. The 2 Rainbow fields are
considered small fields and are used by 10 and under age teams. Ilse was informed that
the Medina Morningside Field is used for t-ball only.
Wiison asked about the number of girls in saft�aiL Hallquist said there are 6 teams of 13-
14 year old giris, 4 teams of 14-under with 3 teams consisting of 15-under girls and 1 at
13 girls. The 16 and 18 year old girls each have one team. Hallquist said there is a drop
off in registration beginning with the 16-under age girls due to the competitiveness of fast-
pitch softball. The association, according to Hallquist, is considering adding a slow-pitch
program as this is a lifetime type of softball that is played giving incentive to those girls in
the i6-under ai�d 18-under levels to continue active in team sports.
I:lse c�uestioned whether the association has approached Long Lake for use of ball fields.
Hallquist said he thought that could be an option.
Ilse asked for clarification on field use before and after the opening of the QBA fields last
year on CoRd 6 and Old Crystal Bay Road. She said it was her understanding that the
assaciation used Holbrook two nignts for 4BA and 3 or 4 nights at Bederwood before the
new fields were open. Then after the new fields were being used, 2 nights were used at
Bederwood and the association had cut back or dropped out of using the fields at
Holbrook. Hallquist said he was unsure af the Bederwood use but that Holbrook was
used for softball through the July season and was paid for 3-night usage through the
season.
Howells asked i#'there were any other fields for usage in Maple Plain. Hallquist said there
were 4 fields and noted that the high school field could be used. The fifth field was used
by an adult league, but possibly could be used for a tournament.
Flint asked what the understanding was currently for league usage at Bederwood.
Gerhardson said the City has approved OBA usage for two nights a week.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONt}PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANU�ARY 2, l 996 �
(#2 - Orono Softball - Cantinued)
Ilse said the surrounding communities should make fields available for their fair share. In
inquiring about Independence, Haliquist said he did not know of any fields in that
community. Ilse noted that the softball association provides service to Independence
children.
VVilson asked if the shortage problem was for game times or practice times. Hallquist said
both, but the schedulin� of games was the lar�est problem. Schedulin� for clinics and �ym
space was also said to create problems. He alsa noted that the North Minnetonka
Baseball Association, a recreatianal league, made use of 65% of the Orono softball fields
and pla_yed teams from other communities such as Rockford and Monticello.
Ilse asked if the scheduling can be done prior to registration. Hallquist said they have an
idea of the usa�e before re�istration but cannot finaliz� anvthin�until re�istration is
complete. The assaciation was said to limit a team size to 13 to reduce bench time. With
the younger children, there would be an unknown number of particpants with new players,
but they use the field at Rainbow and a nearby park The 10-under group were said to
need mare space.
Ilse inquired about use at Hackberry and was informed it was considered a small field.
Ilse informed Hallquist that the Park Commission was in the process of park planning and
would need some time to continue with that nrocess in determinina the oarameters and
guidelines fc�r usage of each park
Flint asked if the number of participants would be known by the association for the
Februarv 5 meetin�. Hallquist said re�istration would not be known at that time but was
here to give the Park Commission time to determine if Bederwood would be available. It
was later reported that actual figures would not be available until May 1. He said they
would be faced with limitin� the number of participants without any additional field
scheduling. Flint asked if the number of players on the field for each team was known.
Haltquist said the younger children had ten players on the field and nine players for the ten
and over a�e�roup.
Ilse asked if the softbali participation was growing. She inquired about the policy
re�ardin��uho can plav. Hallauist said softball �uidelines limit the plavers to children who
live in or attend Orono schools. Baseball participation is o�en to anyone; no residence
guidelines are used. Hallquist said the 1$-under program, which consists of 17 and 18
year olds, initiates a draft as there is a problem in gaining enough participation. He felt the
addition of slow-pitch tearns would help to encourage older Qirls to remain in the
program.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORON4 PARK COMIVIISSI�N
MEETING HELD (�N JAN UARY 2, 1995
(#2 - Orono Softt�all - Continued)
Ilse asked if there were any plans to approach Independence or Minnetonka Beach and
Medina and encouraged Haliquist to do sa. Hallquist said there were no ptans and
reiterated what a tremendous field Bederwood presented. Hailquist also noted that
Orono's cost for softball participation at �65 was the lowest in the metro area. He also
r�oted that high school's agreement to the use of their 4 fields for the clinics.
McDermott moved, Howells seconded, to tabte any mation on additic�nal usage at
Bederwood to the February meeting af the Park Commission. Hallquist was informed that
an answer to his inquiry could be given at that time.
White nated that there was no organization for planning field usage and the Park
Commission had coz�trol of the land only. tWhite said the Commission was willing fo help
out programs but was dealing with restrictions to meet neighborhaod concerns and
confticts with other programs_
Flint asked Hallquist about the school district plans. Hallquist said he thought anotl�er
referenduzn vvould be initiated as a field house was needed with no recreation center
available. He said the school district has made the fields and �ym available. Haltquist said
with gender equity, more varsity fields would be required. He noted remodeling would
Iose one field but it wauid be gained elsewhere.
Itse asked about the needs for a feld. Hallquist said no grassed in fields were required.
The cost of a field invalved �SQ4-700 for dirt and $1400 for a back stop. No fences were
required. VVith grass supplied, Hallquist said the cost af a field runs between $5000 and
$600Q. Benches or some sort af dugout, not brick, would be needed.
Wilson received confirmation that the OBA fietds coutd nat be used for softball due to the
rnounds on the fietd. Hallc}uist said there were different field �engths and base sizes for
softball and basebatl.
Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
(#3)APPR4VAL flF A�TION AGENDA FC}R 199b {COPY ATTAC�IED)
Howeils moved, White seconded, to apprave the Action Agenda for 1996.
Howells asked if there was any significance to the numbering of the agenda items. Flint
said it was not perfectly sequential, but the#1 was being dealt with now and #2 was a high
priority fdr the Commission.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR OR�N�PARK C�MMISSION
MEETING HEI,D Ol�3ANUARY 2, 1996
(#3 - Action Agenda - Continued)
Wilson said she was unaware that there was a sub-committee for the Park Planning item
(#2}, as well as not understanain�that it involved the management plan, not just park
revision. Flint said the committee would rnake suggestions hut it would be reviewed by
all. He felt deaiing with the issue as a whole group would be too large an endeavor.
Wilson also said she did not know it included the apen space preservation. Flint said the
decision was made to combine the two items as a part of the whole park plan. It was
nated that a summer intern would be used to review the individual parks. Flint said the
suggestions made by the subcommittee would not bind the Commission but give the graup
an idea on what should be looked at.
Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
(#4} DISCUSS�ON OF SNQWMOBILE [iSAGE Il�CITY PARKS -
C()N�IDERATIaN OF C4MPLA�INT INVOLVING CASCO POII1iT 1'ARK
Flint said a complaint had been received on snowmobiling in Casco Point Park and asked
for clarification on wheth�r there was a policy regardin� snowmobile use in City parks.
Gerhardson said a City ordinance stipulates t�at no motorized vehicles are allowed in the
park areas.
White said the filer of the complaint said he was told by the�olice that they had no
directian by which to police the matter. Whit,e also noted that the person filing the
complaint was a responsible citizen familiar with park matters. White said the
snowmobiler was of the opinion that he couId snowmobile if he sa desired. McDermott
noted that if there was a City ordinance for no snowmobiling, no further discussion was
needed. The rule was in place and should be enforced.
Gerhardson said there was a sign in place stipulating pedestrian use only. Wilson said it
was then only an issue of enforcemen�. Gerhardson said there is no speciftc patroling of
the parks, but ihe police should respond to any calls. Gerhardson said all calls to the
police department are taped and could be verified if any problems were to arise regarding
enforcement. F1int nQted that a person could get a copy of the ordinance from
Gerhardson.
(#5) CONSIDERATIQN OF WINTER PLOWING QF C�TY 'I"RAILS
Ftint asked if winter plowing should be considered and how others felt about it beirig done
on the trails. Gerhardson said that due to equipment limitations, it was not a possibitity at
this time. Flint indicated that, nevertheless, the Cammission should consider if it wished
to plow its trails in the long run.
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MII�i-LJTES UF THE FtEG�ZAR URUIVC��ARK CUIVIMISSI�N
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 2, 1996
(#5 -Winter Plowing Consideration - Cantinued�
White said Hennepin Parks does not plow their trails even though the equipment and
manpower is available. He said plowing would encourage the use and cause meltdown
and ice formation as well as the need for patroling. White noted that a trail can not be all
to everyone and was used by cross country skiers in the wintertime. He alsa noted the
need to look at topography and drainage of the trails.
Howells was informed that the DNR also did nat plow their trails.
It was noted that, in some neighboring cities, grooming has been done on trails, thus
allowing for usage by hikers. Flint noted that a trail along the west side of�-Iwy 101 i.n
Wayzata was groomed, which doesn't require being taken down to the blacktop, thus
eliminating ice buildup.
Vi�ilsan noted that the trail has been used by snowmobilers too.
Flint said there was controversy with the decision on who should shovel the sidewalk
along Hwy l2 on the Long Lake side. Long Lake had asked the local business people to
shovel. It was noted that the 4' sidewalk on the north side belongs to Orono, while the 4'
sidewalk on the south side belongs to Long Lake. Gerhardson said Orono is not
maintaining t�is sidewalk cluring the winter months.
Gerhardson said a resident had inquired if the trails were going to be maintained during
the winter months. The resident had thought the City was planning on doing so but was
informed by Gerhardson that this was nat the case. tlerhardson said he informed the
resident that the City did not wish to encourage any motorized traffic. He noted that the
trails along a residential area could be considered a sidewalk, which would require
maintenance by the residents through a preexisting City ordinance. It was noted that some
residents are walking along the roadway where the trails are located creating a safety
concern.
Commission also discussed dragging a trail to allaw usage or grooming. It was noted that
grooming would be required after each snowfall. The solid drifts also present a problem.
Flint suggested the trail be groomed away trom the road right-of-way to alleviate any
mound buildup. McDermott said it was possible to atternate the routes for the winter
months. It was noted that grooming could be leased out to private individuals due to the
high cost of the equipment. It was noted that the right-of-way is 12' and could be
maintained at a narrower width to gain the space for dragging the trail away from the
roadway. White suggested either a snowmabile or a small plow be used to drag the trail.
The Brown Road trail was said to be about 3/4 mile long in a residential area and cauld be
used as a pilot section.
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COI�IMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JA.N UARY 2, 1996
(#5 - Winter Plowing Consideration - Continued)
Flint said the question was whether the Commission should work towards grooming the
trails. White felt the Commission should wait and see what the usage is on the trails.
Gerhardson said there is some resident interest from those along Brown Road.
Gerhardson said he would look into what the options are and at what cost. The Park
Commissioners were asked to inquire of the area residents if they had any interest in trail
grooming.
(#6) COI�TTINUED DISCUSSION OF OPEN SPACE AND PARK PLANNING
PROCESS
Flint asked the Commissioners if they were satisfied with the process description as
outlined in the memo by Ron Moorse. Ilse said the memo characterized where the
Commission was at presently with the goal of a joint work session with the Council.
Wilson agreed with the memo noting the problems pointed out on the current management
plan. Wilson asked why it was determined to discuss the matter with the Council. Flint
said Moorse recommended a general discussion with the Council and the Planning
Comnvssion. Flint agreed to inform Moorse that the Commission was satisfied with the
memo contents at this point.
Ilse askec�the Commissioners for their comrnents on the rough draft of the park plan in
order to redraft the plan. Ilse said she would ask Moorse for assistance in completing a
more formalized draft for the next meeting. Flint noted that the park inventory will be
conducted this summer by a summer intern. Flint asked each Commissioner to get his/her
comments to Ilse as soon as possible in order to have a more definitive draft at tne next
meeting.
Wilson asked what was desired. It was nated that the Commission was replacing and
devising a new park classification system and definition of open space. The definitions,
such as community or neighborhood parks, would be used as a guideline for future
approvals when requests are made concerning establishing or modifying a park. Wilson
asked if the draft should be that specific. Ilse and McDermott said the criteria should be
specific enough to allow the Commission to to have guidelines to approve or deny a
request.
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MINtiTES OF T"HE REGUI.,AR OR�NO PARK COMMISSION
MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 2, 1996
(#6 - Open Space and Planning - Continued)
Flint said he questioned a specific item citing the mini park description. McDermott said
the actual descriptions would not be determined until the actual inventory was completed.
The draft descriptions came from a compilation of other cities. Flint suggested listing the
kinds of equipment and facilities being comtemplated to get a feel of what was desired.
Wilson said she would disagree with the list at this point. Ilse said the list does not mean
all parks under this heading would need the facility or equipment but would enable limits
to be set and leave room for judgment. Ilse said it was also possible that the list wouId
contain activities or facilities that cannot be done at a certain park.
iijilson was concerned that the lists were so specific that the �ommission would "hang"
themselves. McDermott said that is why the comments from all the Commissioners were
so important. Wilson said she would be more in agreement with a more general wording
in descriptions.
Ilse commented on the question of specifics. She noted if there was a strong feeling on a
certain park, the parameters or specifics could be listed for that particular park only. Flint
said the park descriptions now were more generalized to gain a broader look. McDermott
agreed with the generalizations but said the criteria was needed to gain the guidelines.
Wilson asked what would happen five years down the road if opinions were to change
noting that feelings do not stay constant. McDermott said the inventory would help to
gain insight into why a park is what it is in the first place. An example of Bederwood was
cited. It was not designed for organized sports, yet it has become used in that way to
some ea�tent, and the Commission is being asked for increased organized sports usage.
Ilse said the (;ommission would take under consideration the park`s design for a certain
usage but also for future change. She said the descriptions cannot be so loose as to have
no guidelines whatsoever. McDermott noted that changes might occur at Bederwood but
the guidelines show the need to gain neighborhood input. Ilse concurred, noting that
those in the neighborhood were under the impression of gaining some reliet and yet now,
the OBA is asking to raise the level of use.
Flint asked about historic sites and whether this should be a separate category or a specific
use. Flint, Wilson and White favored special use. Ilse concurred noting that this was
especially true in light of each park having its own information sheet and parameters.
McDermott said the category was listed in case someone in the future would want to
donate what they consider to be an historic site and give the Commission guidelines by
which to make a decision. Ilse said the historic site could be a sub-category under the
special use.
McDermott distributed the original draft to the members in order to see from where the
second draft derived.
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MIN"UTES OF T�IZEcJULAI�ORONc7 t ARK COMIVIISSION
MEETING HELD �N JANUARY 2, 1996
(#7) QTHER BUSINESS
The Commission members reviewed Planning Commission issues to deterrnine if there was
any Park Commission interest. After determining the location of the Summit Park
application, it was decided that there the application had no significance for the Park.
Commission.
The spruce trees purchased by the City at a reduced cost, planted on the Minnick property
and French Creek Preserve, and given Council approval in December, 1995, were
discussad. The trees will be used for screening purposes. The trees were noted to have a
warranty.
The golf course fees were noted to be reduced for students. Wilson and Flint felt that the
golf fees shoutd be higher for non-residents.
The Saga Hili tax forfeit property was c�iscussed. It was noted that the County is favoring
turning over half of the 9 acre parcel to the City at no cost but would like to charge an
undetermined value for the remaining portion. Moorse had recommended a hold be
placed on the property to make further determinations. This hold was approved by the
Council in December.
Flint asked the Commission members to speak with Moorse on their views regarding the
property. Gerhardson noted that if the City does not accept the County's findings, the
County can offer the property for sale. Flint noted that the issue should be discussed with
the Saga Hill neighbors. White felt the County might not have seen the property in
question and could possibly change their opinion ance it was examined further.
The March meetings ofthe �ouncil will be attended by the following Park Commissioners:
3/11/96 -Howells 3/25 - Flint
AD3QLTRNMENT
Wilson moved, Howells seconded, to adjourn at 9:20 p.m. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
�
, t e ��,
Richard N. Flint, Chair
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