Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-06-1995 Park Commission Minutes ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES FOR NOVEMBER 6, 1995 FRIENDS OF THE PARK AV1�'ARD Mayor Callahan presented the Friends of the Park Award to members of Girl Scout Troop #12l 0, Girl Scout Troop #1900, and representatives of the Orono Baseball Association. Callahan commented that these groups working to improve Orono's parks were excellent examples of"citizen groups in action". He thanked them for their contributions to the City. A plaque noting the names of recipients of this award was shown to those in attendance. This plaque will hang in the City Hall. ATTENDANCE The Park Cammission met on the above date with the following members present: Chair Richard Flint, Lili McMillan, Susan Wilson, James White, Sherokee Ilse, Robert Howells, and Andrew McDermott. Representing Staff were Public Works Director John Gerhardson and Recorder Sherry Frost. Chair Flint called the meeting to order at �:34 p.m. following the Friends of the Park Award presentation. AGENDA (#1) APPROVAL OF M[NUTES OF SEPTEMBER 5, 1995 AND OCTOBER 2, 1995 MEETIIVGS White moved, Howells seconded, to approve the Minutes of the September 5, 1995, Park Commission Meeting as submitted. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0. McDermott noted on the minutes of the October 2 meeting, page 3, 3rd paragraph under item #5, that the garage noted was owned by an adjoining property owner but the corner of the garage encroaches into the City property. On page 4, Sth paragraph, item #5, the last sentence referred to trails stipulated on the development plat. This was changed to °trails were su�osed to be have been stipulated". Wilson moved, McMillan seconded, to approve the Minutes of the Park Commission Meeting of October 2, 1995, as amended. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0. 1 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#2) OPEN SPACE PLANNING/PARK PLANNING (INFORMATION SUPPLIED BY CITY ADMINISTRATOR) A. OPEN SPACE PRESERVATiON PLAN (SEE ATTACHED 10/3/95 MEMO FROM CITY ADMINISTRATOR) Fli�t commented that the open space presen�ation plan is the result of the community survey reporting on the community's priority for preservation of open space. Flint asked the Commissioners to note the difference in priorities between the Park and Planning Commissions as the addition of providing natural protection for Lake Minnetonka. It was later noted that the lake protection should include drainage from wetlands into the lake, marshes, the watershed, as well as include other lakes. McMillan said she would like to look at Lake Minnetonka as a regional park in itself. If the Commissioners are in agreement with the objectives, the memo reported on the steps for proceeding. Moorse asked the Commission to review the questionnaire results for accuracy �n reflecting their view and priorities. Once ihat is done, the City Council will review and consider the objectives. The final objectives will serve as the basis for developing an open space preservation plan for the City. McDermott asked if there would also be a true master plan for the parks. Flint said it was his understanding that there would be. Wilson added that since open space was a high priority, the City wanted to develop this part of the plan first. Wilson did not think the open space preservation should be exclusive but only a part of the park planning process. The Commissioners agreed that the background paragraph, last sentence, should reflect that "one �art of the park master plan is the open space preservation plan." The Commission also felt the second sentence to last needed to reflect that open space preservation was inclusive but not the object of the overall master park plan. Ilse questioned the low priority placed on trail corridor connections when the Commission has focused on bike trails. Wilson said this area was not necessarily confined or even in reference to bike trails but also of animal corridors; and the question, itself, on the questionnaire was in reference to open space, which would generally not be reflected by bike trails. The Commission felt the item of low priority (#4) should be excluded from the rankings as it could create a misunderstanding of the Commission priorities. Wilson said the sco}�e of the questionnaire results is narrow and would like to eliminate parts of the results as written or adequately explain how the conclusion was drawn. The results were said not to be wrong, but just did not say enough. Flint concurred noting that trails had been a very high priority on the citizen survey. It was just that in Orono to date, we used the trails for recreation and transportation, not for open space preservation. 2 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#2A- Open Space Preservation Plan - Continued) McDermott felt the questionnaire was helpful but would like to have seen "spaces next to open spaces" included, i.e. land adjacent to a park. It was noted that there is limited opportunity for acquiring large blocks of land. Flint agreed to talk over the concerns of the Commission with City Administrator Moorse prior to any further steps taken in the process. A work session was also felt to be desirable before continuing with the next step. B. PARK CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM (SEE ATTACHED lll119.5 MEM(J FROM CITY ADMINISTRATOR) Flint said he would like to see the park classification in matrix form. I�e said Moorse looked at the current Commission management plan, listed the current c1assifications, and suggested adding Community Parks and Trails or Linear Parks. Flint said the Commission now needed to decide if these classifications were adequate or if chan�;es needed to be made. The Commission members were of the opinion that the first four classifications were satisfactory as written. Classification #5, nature areas, would serve as descriptions of French Creek Preserve, Highwood, Lowry Woods, and possible, Saga HiIL McDermott suggested that #6 would be used to describe such use as an ampitheatre, and City specific, the golf course. White suggested removing the word "reserve" from #4 and adding this description to #5. It was his opinion that #4 referred to Baker Park. Flint commented that #4 would be a park under which the Park Commission had no control, while#6, the Commission would have control. Commission members did not think two area classifications were needed for Baker Park. It was suggested to add another category, #8, Trails and Linear Parks. llse said she was not willing to accept the definitions as written but would like to further investigation other definitions using plans from other cities. She commented that Bederwood is an example of different uses; French Creek was clearly limited, but determinatians would be needed if permits were needed for a gathering; and wondered where Dickey Park would fit in. 3 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#2B - Park Classification System - Continued) Flint commented that he saw size as the only difference between #1 mini parks, and #2, neighborhood parks. McDermott added that there was only a fine line between#2, neighborhood parks, and #3, community play fields. Ilse remarked that the lack of specifics could cause problems such as hockey being scheduled at a future Crystal Bay Park rink when other areas were crowded. Commissioners agreed that the raw materials were there but further work was needed ta fine tune the classifications. It was noted that park classification plans from other cities could be gathered from Gerhardson, Moorse, and Flint. Wilson noted that she had gained alot of information from Erik Blank of Plymouth. Flint commented that the park use was more intensive in Plymouth. A subcommittee, consisting of Ilse as chair, Flint, McDermott, and White will gather information, look at categories, definitions, reclassifications, and lay out the suggested classifications. This information will then be relayed to Moorse for further Staff assignment. Ilse will gather the initial information and set up a meetin�; of the subcommittee. (#3) UPDATE ON TRAILS PROGRESS: A. OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD Gerhardson reparted that the trail from the Luce Line to the top of the hill north of Watertown Road is now paved and curbed. The restoration of plantings will occur in the spring. Flint said there was a need for plantings between the street and the bike trail to break up the look of the asphalt. B. BROWN ROAD Gerhardson said the Brown Road trail is now completed. Flint noted that vandals have been driving automobiles on the grass strip destroying the grass. Gerhardson said the City was able to obtain a license number of the vehicle from a neighbor who viewed the car driving on the grass. This person will be spoken to about driving on this grass. Gerhardson noted that after speaking with the people who were taking the retaining walls apart, the problem was stopped. He believes the same will happen with this incident. =t MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 C. SIGI�IAGE Gerhardson said he has met with the signage people who are making the reeammendations. He will meet with the sub-committee to determine what signs will be used and whether metal or wood posts are recommended. It was noted when asked if County signage was looked at for use by the City that there were no hard or fast rules for County signs. (#4A) UPDATE ON ffiGHWOOD NATURE TRAIL Gerhardson reported that 3 or 4 trees were taken out and the rough grading has been done. The crushed rock and sign are expected to be completed yet this year. Staffwill wait until spring to place the picnic table in the trail area. (#4B) UPDATE ON LOWRY WOODS NATURE TRA[L Gerhardson and Wilson reported on a problem with the easement for Lowry Woods Nature Trail. At this time, there are two options to explore for access and asked the Commissioners for their recommendation. Originally, the Commission was awaiting the sale of one more lot by the developer, Knapp, in the adjaining subdivision when the roadway would be constructed and access into the trail area gained. During review of the language regarding use, City Attorney Barrett said unless the road was m�de � public road, there would�ie n� access to Lowy Nature TraiL It was noted that the City would have to maintain a public road. Knapp does not wish the City to use the private road as there is an alternate septic site location for property in the subdivision. Park Commissioners noted that the access would be moved to another area. Another option is to acquire the small corner of land along County Road 84 separating Lowry VVoods from the raadway. This corner of land is separated from the rest of the land owned by a neighborhood property (at 4465)by the roadway and is, basically, of no value to the property owner. This option, however, it would allow access to only the corner of the trail property. The City would also have to gain at least a 10' easement from neighboring properties at 4360 or 4440 Bayside Rc�ad. Wilson asked for Commission comments and reparted it was her desire to outline to the Cauncil the Commission recommendation and ask Council for direction. McDermott received confirmation that the development has approval for the private aceess. 5 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PA.RK C4MMISSION MEETTIVG HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#4B - Update on Lowry Woods Nature Trail - Continued} Howelis suggested determining where the power lines lay. Ilse said she knew one of the properiy owners, the Jahnson's, and would speak with them on behalf of the Park Commission. Wilson said the Johnsons had said they were pleased with the Lowry Woods preserve. Wilson noted that the possible access gained from the main road is flat and woutd be an easier access. Gerhardson said there would be enough room in this area for 2-3 cars to pull in and out. It would also allow the public to drive by and see the trail sign. The Commissioners were in favor of pursuing the access via the main road through the corner of land owned by 4465. They all agreed that public access to the preserve was important because the City had not acquired this land merely to benefit adjacent property owners. Since the land had been give to the City by the Nature Conservancy, Wilson was asked what can be dane with conservancy land. Wilson said she felt the City would be able t�a have a smatl parking area as well as walking paths and access_ White asked if there was an option to gain a 1 S' strip of land through an easement with 4360. Gerhardson said this easement would be too close to the pasture area and house for that property. Flint commented on the attractive appeal of a small4' opening into a traii area in Maine that he had visited. Concern was nated on larzdlocking the area and the inability to access the trail with equipment for maintenance or emergencies. Wilson said at this time, she will speak with property awner, Johnson, and developer, Knapp, regarding access, and get direction from the Council at their upcoming meetin�. Flint suggested that if it was the desire to use the public road, the Council should be approached first. If private access was preferred, then he suggested speaking with the property owners. The other praperty owner to be contacted is the Minken farruly. � MINUTES OF TI� REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#5) SAGA HILLS UPDATE Irene Silber and Patty Affelt appeared on behalf of the Saga Hills Group. Silber said there were 27 grant proposals sent out to enable the group to purchase the property from Midway National Bank. She noted the suppart given by City Administrator Ron Moorse. The grant applied for by the City for the Saga Hill Group has been extended for at least 6 months. This grant was for $I 00,000 which required the group to raise another $100,000. The grant amount, however, has been reduced to $50,000 as there was a change in the ma�mum amount available from the state in any year. It is possible that another $50,000 will be available next year. Silber commented that Lisa Kubler of the Land for Public Trust was able to negotiate the price ofthe property down to $145,000 for 12 acres. The Minnesota Land Trust has a fund set up for use by the group and will act as intermediary in the purchase of the property. The land will ultimately be owned by the City. Silber said some small donations have been given. One foundation recommended denial but asked that the group resubmit their application. Silber said the bank would like to remove the property from their books and sell to the group. The majority of the big woods on Saga Hill were noted to hP owned by the Morgards. They are not on the property to be purchased from the bank. Flint asked where access will be available to the property. The bank property adjoins that of the City owned property which now possesses only a small easement for access. Flint noted that in order to invite the public onto the park land, access woul be required. Patty Affelt said the church, who has the access to the property, had no problem with people gaining access through their property but was concerned with liability. McMillan said she had spoken with Zoning Administrator Mabusth, who said there was an upcoming subdivision proposal, which as part of the park dedication, it would be possible ta ask for space to provide access to the property. Silber said the Garden Lane access was platted in but not used. She noted that the church was approached on possible purchase of selling a small strip of land for access. Flint said it seemed to make sense to keep the parking lot for the church and gain access from that area. Affelt said the church had purchased a small 1/2 acre parcel which adjoins the park and is surraunded by church property. She said maybe the church could be approached by purchasing this property. Flint said he saw no reas�n t� purchase another piece of property and tar that over when the church's parking lot was idle mast of the time. Ilse commented on the public use of the parking lot of Trinity Lutheran for access to Wolsfeld Woods by buses and questioned why the same could not be worked out with the church near Saga Hill. 7 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#5 - Saga Hill Update - Continued) Silber said there was also an L-shaped parcel of land consisting of 7 acres and known as the Soskin property. The developer had called the group requesting that they not oppose his development of 7 houses, less than an acre each. In turn, he would give part of the land back as park land. It was said he was proposing to cluster the homes and install a cul-de-sac. Silber said the donation of park land would probably consist of part of the ravine. Silber has spoken with another area resident, Cinc�y Hilger, who is interestec_1 in the land, and plans on speaking with the developer concerning the subdivision. Affelt said a neighborhood dog has drunk frcr.:F�rest Lake and subsequer.tly died. Th�y=b�lieve the toxicity is from runoff into the lake. Affelt asked who she should contact concerning update on Saga Hill. Flint said Howelis and Wilson i��ere the subcommittee to represent the Park Commission. McDermott asked if a lease agreement could be made with the church and their parking lot with the liability paid by the City. Flint said this could be a problem under the City's insurance, since City liability would arise from contract and not from tort. Affelt said she thought the Council had said the_y were not in favor af this t_ype of agreement. Wilson will speak with Trinity Lutheran Church concerning how they handle the public use of their parking lot for access to Wolsfeld Woods. (#6) LUCE LINE PAVING PROPOSAL Flint asked if it was appropriate for the PaFk Commission to address this issue. All of the Commissioners felt it was an issue that the_y would like to give their input. It was determined that all of the Commissioner favored leaving the Luce Line Traii as limestone base except for McDermott, who preferred paving the trail for easier maintenance. Ilse said the paving issue is a result of a proposal which will be introduced to the legislature by Phyllis Kahn. Todd VanDellen called Ilse and asked her to determine what the constituents preferred. The DNR has scheduled the first of three meetings at 6:00 p.m. on November 29 to discuss the po�tion of the Luce Line from Plymouth to Stubbs Bay Road. VanDellen was looking for spokespeople from differing positions, horseback riding, skiers, dog walkers, athletes, walkers, etc. He also asked for representation from the Park Commissions of Orono and Long Lake. Ilse said Mayor Olson of Long Lake informed her that their City Council will take a position on the matter and is asking for citizen input. Ilse asked if Orono should encourage citizen input. It was noted that Council Members Jabbour and Goetten and Mayor Callahan were notified. Goetten had voiced concern to Ilse on why Moorse was not aware of the scheduled meeting regarding the paving. � MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK CONIMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#6 -Luce Line Proposal - Continued) The Commissiotters said they had heard from many citizens and the consensus was to keep the trail limestone. McDermott said the benefits of the position taken by the Park Commission should be noted. White said he would like to maintain the feel of the trail as it is now. McDermott said, over time, paving of the trail would be cheaper for maintenance. McMillan said the fatal flaw with paving is the elimination of use by cross-country skiers. She noted the paving would go against the rural philosophy of Orono and would eliminate the soft surface used by joggers. Flint said we need to distinguish why we are paving our other trails. It was noted that the reason was because the �rono trails follow transportatian corridors. McMillan noted that by being a railroad bed, the Luce Line has a very good base. She said the newly constructed Orono trails go over drainage areas that are better suited by a paved trail. Other benefits for limestone trail or problems with paving w�re noted. The main use of the Luce Line was by walkers and people walking their dogs. Paving would increase the danger with use by high speed roller bladers and bikers. It would also change the use and feel of the trail. The hi�h drop offs were also noted. Ilse said she was worried that if paving was done, another walking trail would be desired which would result in the loss of the horse trail. McDermott said he felt the horse trail would be lost eventually anyway. Howells said he felt the paving would benefit outlying communities like Watertown. Wilson moved, McMillan seconded, to recommend the Luce Line remain as a limestone base. Vote: Ayes 5, Nays 1, McDermott, Abstain l, Howells. The Council will be asked if they would care to be involved in this issue and whether they would approve the involvement of the Park Commission. White noted that the trail from Hopkins to Victoria, which follows an abandoned railroad, is not paved. McMillan said the Luce Line has been there for many years, adding it would be different if the trail were new. 9 MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#6 - Luce Line Proposal - Continued) Ilse asked for spokespeople for the November 29 meeting. It will be attended by Ilse, Flint, and McMillan. (#7) WINTER RECREATION PROGRAM A. ICE RINKS The Commission reviewed the parks that will have ice rinks this winter. Hackberry will remain open and have two benches for skaters use. Bederwood will remain open as well as Casco, which was noted to have a light for evening use directly over the rink. Antoine was approved for closure at the Council meeting of October, 1995. Wilson reported that she received a suggestion from an Orono resident that the City purchase boards used for rinks from the City of Minneapolis and create a rink at Summit Park on Long Lake. The Commission concluded not to proceed with this suggestion. B. ORONO GOLF COURSE (SATURDAYS ONLY?) Staff recommended use of the clubhouse at the Orono Golf Course for Saturday afternoon use for sledders and skiers from 12:00-4:00 p.m. during January and February. Gerhardson said the funds will come from a fund to be determined at a budget meeting on November 16. Gerhardson will speak with Gear West regarding use of the clubhouse on Wednesday evenings. Gear West will be required to pay for any staffing required on evenings where they seek to use the clubhouse. After discussion, the Commissioners decided that Sunday afternoons would be preferable than Saturdays for clubhouse use. It was opined that families use Saturdays for errands and the like and Sundays as family days. McMillan requested the clubhouse opening be advertised in the local paper. Ilse suggested a picture be included to spark interest. (#8) REPORT ON PROPOSED SCHOOL FACILITY - POSSIBLE IMPACT ON PARK AND TRAIL SYSTEM This item was deleted from the agenda for discussion. lU MINUTES OF THE REGULAR ORONO PARK COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 6, 1995 (#9) ESTABLISH MEETING DATES FOR 1996 The Commissioners reviewed the schedule for the meetings in 1996 and accepted the dates as set forth in the proposed schedule. (#10) OTHER BUS�INESS There was no other business for discussion. ADJOLIRNMENT Howells moved, White seconded, to adjourn the meeting at 10:00 p.m. �� � �:�. ,` � Richard N. Flint, Chair 11