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HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-06-1993 Park Commission Minutes . , MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 ATTENDANCE The Park Commission met on the above date with the following members present: Richard N. Flint, Robert Howells, Susan Wilson, Lili McMillan, Sherokee Ilse and James White. Alex Vongries was absent. Public Works Director John Gerhardson and Recorder Lin Vee represented City staff. Chair Flint called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m. (#1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES Wilson requested that on Page 5 Lowry Wood be changed to Lowry Woods. She also noted that she had not referenced a news article but that it had been Howells and asked that the names be changed. McMillan asked about the charge for title insurance. Gerhardson responded that it was a cost to Orono and is standard procedure. Costs to the City include transfer of the title from the Conservancy to the City of Orono, review by the City Attorney and filing costs. The Phase I Environmental Study has yet to be done which involves some staff time but was not part of the costs previously discussed and approved. For future reference, Chair Flint felt if there were City legal fees involved, those fees should not be paid out of the Park Fund while a contrary argument could be made from pure accounting theory, he felt that these were operating costs which should be paid out of current operating funds. White asked at what point the City assumed responsibility for any problems on the property. Gerhardson responded that if any problems were discovered before the title transfer and completion of the Phase I Study, the Nature Conservancy would be informed. The Phase I Study is basically a history of the property from the neighbors or others familiar with the property. Wilson asked that the nature and amount of the costs charged to Park Dedication fees be stated in the minutes. White requested that on page 3, the sentence "White suggested that a combination of uses for the park systems be established." be changed to read "White suggested that a combination of uses within the park system be established. It was moved by Howells, seconded by McMillan, �� to approve the amended minutes of the November 1, 1993 Park Commission meeting. Ayes 6, nays 0. (#2) UPDATE ON DICKEY DEVELOPMENT - To be discussed later 1 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 (#3) DISTRIBUTION OF SURVEY FORMS FOR CITY ICE RINKS (McMILLAN) McMillan distributed forms to monitar use of the ice rinks which will be done periodically during the season. Monitoring will be done by the following: Jim White - Casco Point Skating Rink Alex Vongries - Roberta Lee Antoine Skating Rink Lili McMillan - Hackberry Park Sherokee Ilse - Bederwood Park All Park members were urged to review any or all of these skating rinks when they are in the vicinity during the winter. Members decided to review these reports monthly at the scheduled Park Commission meeting. (#4) UPDATE ON BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - To be discussed later (#5) UPDATE ON OLD CRYSTAL BAY SITE (McMILLAl� McMillan reported that the City Council gave their approval to proceed with the development of this site by getting ideas from the residents. The Council should be updated on the progress of the plans. McMillan suggested the Park Commission schedule a public meeting vs. a public hearing in February to get further input from the neighborhood. Randi Carlson has been the neighborhood representative on the sub-committee. McMillan thought a letter should be sent to the neighborhood residents in early January informing them of the upcoming public meeting so they can be prepared with their ideas for the site. The meeting should be held at the new Council Chambers. She asked if the idea of closing Prospect Avenue should be stated in the letter. Others agreed this could be included in the letter. Chair Flint asked about the idea of selling off one of the plats. McMillan felt there were too many unknowns with the soil contamination and decision of what to be done with the Council Chambers. At this time, only ideas should be contributed about Parcels A and B, not C. It was decided that the public meeting would be held at the February 7 Park Commission meeting. 2 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 UPDATE ON OLD CRYSTAL BAY SITE - CONT. White asked why the old City Hall was not considered as a site for the Post Office. Gerhardson responded that residents wanted the Post Office to remain and the old Council Chambers did not have plumbing, etc. to make it a feasible use. Gerhardson presented a diagram of the Old Crystal Bay site showing Parcels A, B and C. White noted that closing Prospect Avenue is being considered because it leaves one contiguous piece of property that is no longer divided by a public street and this possibility should be included in the letter. Howells requested a map with the actual dimensions of the parcels. Wilson asked that the map include properties to the south as well. White felt some guidelines should also be included in the letter such as leaving existing mature trees where possible and have them indicated on the map. The well should also be noted even though it is not in use and the plan is to cap it. McMillan asked about electrical outlets. Gerhardson stated there was electricity to the well so something shoula be able to be worked out with the control box. Howells asked if there were other utilities on Prospect. Gerhardson explained there was underground telephone service but no sewer or water in this area. Wilson suggested McMillan draft a letter and then have it reviewed by the sub-committee. Chair Flint guarded against being too specific since he felt this was an opportunity for citizens to state their views rather than react to a Park Commission proposal. Howells asked about the distribution of this letter. Gerhardson stated there were 80- 100 homes to which the letter would be mailed. Wilson suggested Randi Carlson be the contact person, if she were agreeable, if residents were unable to attend the meeting and wanted to leave written or verbal comments. Chair Flint felt it would be better to address comments to the Park Commission through Lili McMillan, % City Hall. Wilson noted that the Park Commission is not looking for a full proposal from the residents but rather general comments. The next step will be to bring these comments to the sub-committee for further discussion. 3 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 CHANGE OF MEETING DATE Because of various conflicts, it was decided to change the January meeting to Thursday, January 6 at 7:15 p.m. Howells will be unable to attend. (#2) UPDATE aN DICKEY DEVELOPMENT Gerhardson reported that the developers had indicated they would present a preliminary plat plan in January to the Park Commission, Planning Commission and Council. White asked if the sale of the property was contingent upon the approval of the subdivision. Chair Flint felt normally there would be such a contingency. McMillan asked what had been happening at the Planning Commission and Council meetings regarding this property. Gerhardson responded that both the Planning Commission and Council had been presented the same information as the Park Commission. He thought Council had addressed the issue of wetlands by choosing not to be involved and leaving regulation of the wetlands to the other agencies. Two acre lots are being proposed. Ilse reported that she had a meeting with the Medicine Man and shared the concerns of the Park Commission. His hope was that there be a feeling of a "people" place rich in Native American history with walking paths, native plants, rock piles, benches, places to play and places for families to gather. The Medicine Man said the barn had to be removed and suggested some kind of shelter for picnics or programs. Possibly there could be a way to work in the "story" within the shelter. Thev were unsure what to do with the old house. There was some thought as to splitting off that property with ownership by someone else, possibly a Native American group. Pat Dickey indicated that if the Park Commission were supportive of an interpretive center, then she would talk to some families for private donations. Howells asked where the priorities were of the Park Commission - with the bike trails or preservation of Indian lands. Chair Flint responded the resolution was passed with room for both concerns, i.e., the acreage for park purposes was enough to provide for both. Gerhardson confirmed that he would be sure the Dickey's were sent a copy of the resolution that was passed by the Park Commission in November. 4 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 (#4) UPDATE ON BIKE/HIKE TRAIL (FLINT/CITY STAF� Gaffron prepared a topography map of the proposed trail. Maps were also available from Hennepin Parks. Members reviewed these maps. Chair Flint stated that City Administrator Moorse inquired of Doug Bryant, if Hennepin Parks, would be willing to consider other corridors in the western part of the City besides the one currently designated by Hennepin Parks. The response Moorse got was that Hennepin Parks would be willing to consider another corridor in the western part of the City. Gerhardson explained that the western path going south to the Luce Line is laid out along the edge of several private properties. Topography changes can be as much as 11 feet within a short distance presenting some difficulties with grade. Wilson expressed her concern for property owners who may not want to have trail users along their property. White questioned plans for future development in the area. Wilson asked what the downsides of this proposed trail in western Orono would be. Members discussed: 1. This is not where the majority of the people are. Old Crystal Bay Road is a location which would better serve our people. 2. It goes through private property involving property owner's rights. 3. Some elevation changes may be as much as 11 feet. 4. Drainage problems with putting asphalt on the trail. Other possible locations in western Orono were also discussed. One possibility would be to follow McCulley Road from Highway 12 to the Luce Line where Hennepin County Highway Department already has proposed a trail. Gerhardson noted the possibility of a parking lot on City property off of McCulley Road. The DNR is also interested in buying a piece of the property held by the City for parking. Members discussed the memo from City Administrator Moorse regarding the Old Crystal Bay Road Bike/Hike Trail. The major disadvantage of Option #2 is that Orono would pay all the costs for construction. Wilson asked the meaning of "phase in the remainder as easements become available" in Option #3. White felt it meant that if there was any development in the five year period, the City could take easements as part of the Park dedication. 5 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 UPDATE ON BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT. Chair Flint did not think Option #4 would be less expensive because it would require more expense to the City and would not connect to Baker Park. Chair Flint recommended approval of the conceptual proposal from Hennepin Parks in their letter of October 29, 1993 and that it be brought to City CounciL The motion was seconded by White. This proposal is similar to Option #3 in Ron Moorse's letter. White expressed his opinion that there was not enough support for the Old Crystal Bay Road trail even though he favored this route. They may have to look at another option. McMillan reviewed the proposal from Hennepin Parks stating that Hennepin Parks would build the trail from Baker Park to Old Crystal Bay Road and pay 100% of that cost. Then either the City splits the cost with them for the route down Old Crystal Bay Road or Hennepin Parks builds a trail further west at their cost. She felt a recommendation to Council would have to be more specific. White felt this was a step towards getting a trail. Wilson disagreed. She felt this was political and buying time for Hennepin County so they could get what they want. She would be more supportive if she knew the property owners were in agreement. Drainage concerns also exist. She favors staying with the Old Crystal Bay Road trail as previously proposed. Ilse asked if the proposal could be approved with the possibility of alternative routes such as the McCulley corridor. She views the proposal differently than Wilson. She feels Bryant is working towards a proposal that is flexible enough to work with to gain approval with the Council. The Park Commission has already been working on this for 2 1/2 years which shows their commitment to a trail. McMillan expressed her concern over having a five year legal agreement because the Council could change as well as other things. Chair Flint suggested an amendment to his motion if Wilson were in agreement to a change stating the trail would not have to be in the Orchard Park corridor but could be in another corridor. Wilson objected stating there was not enough information on optional corridors. McMillan also expressed concern over publicity without having property owners fully informed. Chair Flint felt the five year time frame was an advantage because it gave the City time to study development. Wilson felt Hennepin County was trying to "tie" the City into an agreement but Chair Flint explained that after the meeting with Hennepin County, the letter could have been written by either poug Bryant or Ron Moorse because there was agreement about the proposed plans. 6 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 UPDATE BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT. Wilson stated she thought the Park Commission needed more time to look at the alternatives thoroughly. Chair Flint felt there was a risk of alienating the County if they did not respond in a timely manner to the County. There was discussion about taking out the reference to the "Orchard Park" corridor and inserting "a mutually agreed upon western corridor". Chair Flint noted these were still conceptual plans. Wilson asked if the City was required to enter into a formal agreement with Hennepin County. Chair Flint responded that the City would have to enter into an agreement before any money would be spent. Wilson reiterated her unwillingness to send this proposal to the City Council for approval at this time. She felt more information was needed about alternative routes and property owners should be contacted. White stated there would never be 100% approval for the location of a trail, from the Council or the public. Howells suggested indicating to Council and Hennepin Parks that their main objective is to develop a trail and to continue work on possible corridors. Chair Flint felt the previous meetings have indicated this objective. McMillan noted there should be a response to the letter. Chair Flint was in favor of the five year time frame with modifications that a specific western corridor is not designated. McMillan noted that the Orchard Park corridor looks closer to Baker Park than McCulley Road. She sees this corridor as only connecting Baker Park to the Luce Line whereas the Old Crystal Bay Road corridor is more of a "City trail" connecting the ball fields and schools, etc. Any corridor west of Old Crystal Bay Road only serves Hennepin Park's purpose to connect Baker Park to the Luce Line. White stated that although Hennepin Parks would get what they wanted, it would be the first link to a trail in Orono. Ilse noted that Hennepin Parks is also making a commitment to Orono because otherwise they could spend their money in other areas. 7 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 UPDATE ON BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT. McMillan asked how soon Hennepin Parks would do the "spike" on County Road 6. Chair Flint responded it would depend on how soon the legalities were taken care of. There was some discussion about construction in the spring. The City would be responsible for the trail from County Road 6 to Highway 12 and would cost approximately $80,000. An easement would be requested from Mr. and Mrs. Otten and from the School District. Credit would be given against future park fees due on subdivision of the property. Howells asked what other experiences Hennepin Parks has with trails. White responded there are trails past Lyman Lodge from Hopkins to Victoria, from Hopkins to Shakopee, and proposals for Shakopee to Cannon Falls. These trails are very popular but monies are very limited in Scott County. Howells moved to amend the original motion to include alternative routes that would be mutually acceptable in the western portion of the City of Orono. It was seconded by Ilse. Ayes 4, nays 2. Wilson and McMillan were opposed. The question was called on the principal motion. Ayes 4, nays 2. Wilson and McMillan were opposed. NEW BUSINESS The overall park plan was discussed. Chair Flint suggested having someone who is familiar with the City and has worked with parks to make suggestions about park possibilities such as John Shardlow, Steve Johnston with Loucks, or Wenck and Associates. Wilson thought the Park Commission had to discuss the overall principles that are important to the City. Chair Flint thought a park planner could be of help with the process of how to go about developing an overall park plan. He suggested inviting Shardlow to the January meeting to give a brief overview of costs, time frame, types of parks, etc. to include in a park plan. McMillan asked how difficult it would be to determine the easements and park dedication lands taken when subdivisions have occurred. Gerhardson replied that the easements would show on the plats but there is not a master list. These could be discussed further with Jeanne Mabusth. Gerhardson stated he would research this further. White asked for information on the parks from the Comp Plan and rules for the Park Commission from the ordinances. Wilson requested a copy of the Park Dedication Fund budget. Howells requested a copy of the Financial Statement from the Golf Course. . 8 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 6, 1993 ADJOURNMENT It was moved by Wilson, seconded by McMillan, to adjourn the meeting of the Park Commission at 9:59 p.m. Ayes 6, nays 0. , � � ��� � �� /��. �-�t' � � / > Richard N. Flint, Chair Person 9