HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-01-1992 Park Commission Minutes ' ,
MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1992
ATTENDANCE 7 :07 P.M.
The Park Commission met on the above date with the following
members present : Chairperson Dick Flint , Susan Wilson , Alex
Vongries , Sherokee Ilse , Lili McMillan , Robert Howells , and Phil
Bradley . The following represented the City staff : John
Gerhardson , Public Works Director ; Jeanne Mabusth , Building &
Zoning Administrator ; and Teri Naab , Recorder .
(#1 ) APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Vongries requested Page 8, paragraph 6 , be changed to read , "Wilson
felt the Park Commission needed to decide if they intend . . . " . He
asked that Page 8, paragraph 12 be changed to read , "He felt that
the other communities within Orono School District should
participate in satisfying OBA' s need for ballfields . "
Ilse requested Page 8, paragraph 4 be changed to read , "and he saw
the hockey arena and the baseball fields as separate issues and was
in the position of waiting for OBA to formally request to lease the
school property for ball fields , and to date OBA has not made that
request . "
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Ilse , to approve the minutes
of the August 4, 1992 Park Commission meeting as amended . Ayes 7 ,
nays 0.
(#3) RECONSIDERATION OF CANOE RACK ISSUE
Tom Caswell explained that they are requesting the installation of
one or more canoe racks at the south end of Summit Beach , which is
separate from the swimming and picnic areas . He understood that the
Park Commission was concerned with maintaining Summi ;. Beach as a
passive park and stated he concurred with that f�=eling . He stated
that the lack of congestion of S:�mmit Beach is one of the
attractions of the area, �;owever , he felt that installation of
canoe racks would no� interfere with the tranquility and would at
the sa,�ie time al low more people to use one of Orono' s better parks .
He o�fered four reasons for his opinion :
1 . The south end of the park provides for a natural area
for canoe racks . It is away from the
swimming/recreational /picnicking areas and almost
invisible from those areas . The area is not used for
other purposes .
2 . The rental racks and launch would be solely used by
canoes and could be more passive than some of the
recreational games played at the park .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSIUN MEETING OF StPTEM�ER 1 , 1 `J9�
CANOE RACK ISSUE - CONT.
3 . There are a number of surrounding communities
currently successfully renting canoe racks .
4. Th i s use wou I d i nv i te c i t i zens to use the park outs i de
the summer months as canoeing can be done in both the
spring and fall .
Caswell submitted a summary of his speech , Exhibit A.
Wilson agreed with the statements make by Caswell , but reiterated
the Park Commission ' s concern of making public land available for
a private use .
Greg Young stated he formerly lived near Lake of the Isfes where
canoe racks were installed and operated by the Minneapolis Park
Board . Space on a rack could be applied for and the City charged
a nominal fee to cover installation and maintenance of the racks .
Rental was open to residents , and after all their needs were
satisfied , to non-residents . He felt the waiting list was not
excessive and one may not get a rental spot of his choice , but
rather in another area.
Wilson said there were no other sites in Orono for canoe racks .
McMillan asked if there was a rack at the Long Lake swimming beach .
Caswell said he did not think there was , but could not confirm. He
said each rack would hold from 4 to 6 canoes .
Vongries asked if Caswell received a letter indicating the
conclusion at the last meeting regarding this issue .
Caswell stated he did not receive a letter but Dick Flint had
called him.
Vongr i es exp I a i ned why he opposed canoes at th i s s i te . He fe I t they
would be unsightly and did not feel placement of racks to satisfy
a small group was the answer . He noted canoes can be motorized . He
asked who would control the situation . He stated some canoes are
well maintained , while others are not . He noted the City does not
have alternate rental sites . He felt the City should consider
enlarging the swimming beach area instead of installing rental
racks for canoes.
Chair Flint asked about the flexibitity the City has with regards
to restrictions noted in the deed for the property and about
current regulations within the ordinances .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1 �3'�+2
CANOE RACK ISSUE - CONT.
Gerhardson stated the City has full control over use of the
property .
Vongries stated Section 3 (C) gives the impression that it is
acceptable to launch a boat at a designated area.
It was moved by Vongries , seconded by Ilse , to recommend to the
Council to amend the Park and Swimming beach regulations to
prohibit the launching of watercraft from Orono' s parks and
swimming beaches .
McMillan felt the motion prohibits any future development of any
park land within the City . She agreed that the swimming beach at
Summit Park shouid be enlarged .
Chair Flint noted that Stephen Johnston favored the northeast area
of the property for canoe racks .
McMillan noted that area is very sloped to the lake .
Wilson indicated using the northeast area for canoe racks would not
prohibit enlarging the beach area.
Ilse asked for clarification of the existing ordinances .
Gerhardson said he would review the ordinances and report back . He
felt the Council would not only look at Summit Beach as being used
privately, but also all lake accesses the City owes .
Bradley expressed concern that the motion disallows launching a
boat from any City park property , and allows exclusive access to
the lake to lakeshore owners .
Gerhardson stated the ordinances clearing state authorized uses of
parks .
Vongries suggested the park could be rearranged to accommodate the
racks, but felt they would be setting an unwanted precedent .
Caswell stated Long Lake is appealing to them as canoers because
of the lack of power boats, and felt they had an appropriate
request as they are residents of the City . He felt Vongries '
comments perhaps could be reason or excuse for never making any
changes .
Donna Young stated they have canoed approximately two times in the
last 15 years on Stubbs Bay . She felt it sad that they cannot use
the lake in a quiet manner .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1992
CANOE RACK ISSUE - CONT.
McMiilan provided canoes are harder to transport .
Chair Flint felt they could distinguish between non-motorized and
motorized watercraft and felt this request wouid be an enhancement
to the lake .
It was moved by Vongries , seconded by Ilse , to modify the motion
to recommend to Council to amend the Park and Swimming Beach
regulations to prohibit launching of watercraft from Summit Beach .
Bradley asked if the beach regulations are an interpretation of the
ordinance .
Gerhardson stated that was correct .
McMillan indicated a pre-determined amount of space would need to
be set aside for expansion of the beach prior to an approval for
canoe racks.
Vote : Ayes 1 , nays 4. McMillan and Ilse abstained .
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Howells, to establish a sub-
committee of Wilson , Howells , and Chair Flint to research the
possibilities for expansion of Summit Beach swimming area and
installation of canoe racks . Ayes 7 , nays 0.
OTHER ISSUES
Jabbour explained that a while back the Council felt the Park
Commission , in its present form, was becoming more active and
felt it important to continue communication between the Council and
Park Commission . He referred to the letter of resignation from
Johnston . He stated anyone willing to dedicate time to the City
should not feel the frustration felt by Johnston and hoped that
feeling was not prevalent among the other Commission members. He
pointed out several issues from the letter:
1 . No funding for the comprehensive park plan . He
explained that the City has been involved with an
extensive sewer project in an area where people cannot
afford the assessment and the Council felt it important
to help those residents.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETIN� OF SEPTEMQER 1 , ; 9'�2
OTHER ISSUES - CONT.
2 . The amount of time spent on the Highway 12 corridor issue
and other issues. Johnston was angry that there was a joint
meeting of the Planning Commission and Council to discuss the
hockey arena issue and the Park Commission was not invited .
Jabbour stated the joint meeting was to discuss land use . He
noted the Counc i I d i d not mean to exc I ude the Park Comm i ss i on ,
but added it would have been very difficult to make any
decisions with such a large group.
Jabbour stated he is personally open to anyone calfing him. He felt
they need better communication between the different organizations
working to better the City . He stated the Council does appreciate
the work done by the Park Commission .
Vongries expressed concern that Park Commission representatives
reporting to the Counci ) report the true consensus of the
Commission . He added letters should be sent out when it is directed
by the Commission , and sub-committees should be formed at the Park
Commission meetings and directives listed by the Commission at that
time .
Chair Flint noted he would like the Park Commission meetings
included on the Council agendas.
(#3) UPDATE ON BIKE/HIKE TRAIL
Chair Flint noted the trail is on hold until they meet with Otten
to discuss the trail along County Road 6 . He stated the tunnel
under County Road 6 is feasible from an engineering standpoint ,
but is cost prohibitive . He reported he has asked the City Engineer
to draw a diagram showing the trail extending northward from Old
Crystal Bay Road to the power lines . He stated they will take this
proposal to Otten to discuss the possibility as it is very
expensive to build the trail along County Road 6 and the Otten
property . He said they will suggest to Otten that the City will
also install a horse trail along with the bike trait within his
property boundary .
Bradley asked about the ownership of the easement northward of Old
Crystal Bay Road .
Gerhardson said he would review that issue .
(#4) OBA/BEDERWOOD BALL DIAMOND 1993 PLAN
Vongries reported he met with Bradley , Ilse and Gary Larson to
discuss this issue . He asked Gerhardson about an excavating
est i mate for the s i te , wh i ch he was to I d the C i ty d i d not prepare .
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MINUIES OF TH� PARK COMMIS�IvN MEETING i:1F SE�'TENiE3�i� i , :3:+�
OBA/BEDERWOOD BALL DIAMOND 1993 PLAN - CONT.
Ilse reported that Peg Swanson of the Orono School Board did not
have a strong feeling regarding the location of the hockey arena.
She said Don Anderson of the Board could not remember the details
of the decision and said he was open to discussion .
Mabusth explained the building is proposed as a multi -purpose
sports facility, to be used for activities other than hockey . She
reviewed concerns raised at the joint meeting . She noted the City
is not satisfied with the proposed location , and many neighbors
were present at the joint meeting in opposition . The City
encouraged the organization to look to the west of Old Crystal Bay
Road for a possible location . She stated past planning for this
property provided for single family development . She noted the
concern expressed of the intense commercial use of the property .
Mabusth reported the School does not intent to provide for a
through road from the property to Old Crystal Bay Road and the
Schoo I fe I t a road wou I d create a safety i ssue as they are p I ann i ng
to build an elementary school on the site in the future . She
advised that John Shardlow, the City ' s Planner , recommended
relocating the multi -use facility to allow for access to Old
Crystal Bay Road and suggested developing the remainder of the
property as a Planned Unit Development .
Wilson asked about the property immediately to the east of the City
facility site.
Mabusth stated that site is cost prohibitive .
Jabbour indicated Hennepin County will be abandoning their proposal
for a I i brary at the corner of 01 d Crysta I Bay Road and H i ghway 1 2 .
He emphasized, according to the City' s consultant , this use is to
be considered as a commercial use , and approval would set a
negative precedence . He reported Callahan was concerned about
removing the property from the tax roles . He noted there was
discussion regarding the intense campus atmosphere .
Gary Larson stated the proposal has become more complicated than
was originally thought .
Jabbour affirmed the unanimous opinion that the organization should
attempt to move the proposal to west of Old Crystal Bay Road . He
stated the size of the facility was negatively received by many
members in attendance . He felt OBA should not be delayed further
in their quest to obtain ball fields .
Bradley asked the status of the property owned by the School
District that is sought for the facility.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1992
OBA/BEDERWOOD BALL DIAMOND 1993 PLAN - CONT.
Larson stated the sports facility organization has a long term
option to purchase the property , which they entered into without
consulting the City on the proposal .
Mabusth added the County does not wish to encourage access onto
County Road 6 .
Larson reported there may be another site available for little
league fields in Maple Plain , near the new ballfields and under the
watertower . He stated he has talked to Jeff Walton , Mayor of Maple
Plain , who felt the City would entertain a proposal such as this .
He noted the location would meet the needs of the organization . He
added storm sewer is provided to the site and there would be room
for a concession stand and restroom facilities . He felt the
location would be feasible .
Bradley asked if the field would be ready for use for the 1993
season .
Larson felt , due to financial considerations , it would be a year
before they could use the fields . He said he would like the use of
Bederwood Park for the 1993 season . He noted he is aware the
situation at Bederwood Park is temporary, but was under the
impression if OBA was moving forward in locating a permanent field
area, the use of Bederwood for the 1993 season would not be a
problem. He explained that OBA would need to establish a Committee
to research the proposal and could report the results to the Park
Commission in a couple of months . He suggested they would require
funds from all participating communities .
Ilse suggested OBA actively pursue the option of the ball field at
Maple Plain in a quick manner
Chair Flint noted at the last joint Park Commission meeting , Tim
Ercula, proposed joint planning of adjoining communities with
regards to park issues .
Stephen Johnston said most members in attendance did not support
Ercula' s proposition . He felt the Commissions could do the work
themselves .
Jabbour conveyed the Council ' s concern regarding financial
viability of the organization proposing the multi -use facility .
Chair Flint felt the multi -use facility may be a long shot and
suggested Larson discuss with the School Board OBA' s desire to
locate their fields on the school property.
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MINUTES OF TNE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1 �92
OBA/BEDERWOOD BALL DIAMOND 1993 PLAN - CONT.
Mabusth noted the County would require turn lanes to be installed
off County Road 6 if the property is used as proposed . She added
the upgrade to the road wouid be very expensive .
Howeils asked if one field wiil be enough for the projected
membership of little league .
Larson stated the sports complex is their long term goal , but
presently the proposal at Maple Plain would be doable . He stated
he would report back to the Park Commission at their November
meeting .
(#5) BEDERWOOD PARK UPDATE
Gerhardson reported the equipment has been installed .
Ilse advised the equipment has been used by the neighborhood and
the equipment looks great . She noted residents have indicated their
thanks to the Park Commission .
Chair Flint asked about the ice rink .
Gerhardson indicated they need to build a berm around the area and
run a water pipe to the site . He stated it will be done this fall .
SUBDIVISIONS:
793 NORTH FERNDALE ROAD:
It was moved by Bradley , seconded by Wilson , to recommend payment
of the Park Dedication Fee for Application #1762 for Paul Boyke ,
793 North Ferndale Road . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
255 LANDMARK DRIVE :
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Howells , to recommend the
taking of a bike trail easement over the drainage and utility
easement and payment of the Park Dedication Fee for Application
#1764 for Austin Evans for property at 255 Landmark Drive. Ayes 7 ,
nays 0 .
(#6) UPDATE P�ANNING FOR PARK AT SEWER TREATMENT PROPERTY
Wilson reported she is concerned about two issues on this property :
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1992
UPDATE PLANNING FOR PARK AT SEWER TREATMENT PROPERTY - CONT.
1 . The water level has not returned to a level they had
hoped for to ent i ce the d i v i ng ducks to retu rn . They have
reviewed several options , including : bring in water from
another source , review the run-off in the area, and
control the cattail growth .
2 . Removal of the Public Works inventory on site .
Gerhardson reported the contractor has removed 30 loads
from the site , and will continue to remove more in the
future .
Wilson felt it feasible to clean up the site and seed the area
before th i s w i nter . She added , there i s more water i n the pond th i s
year than last .
(#7 ) REPORT HALF COURT BASKETBALL
McMillan reported she has talked with the Park Director of Plymouth
and visited several sites with half court basketball areas . She
noted the sizes vary greatly and was told by the Park Director the
Park Commission should first identify the location and funds
available .
Wilson reported the court used most is the size of a tennis court
and has two hoops . The courts are used by all age groups, and some
of the courts are marked with hopscotch and four-square . The price
for the larger court ranges from $5 , 000-6 ,000 . She felt they could
reduce the cost if the Public Works Department participated in the
installation .
Chair Flint suggested Wilson and McMillan submit a recommendation
at the next meeting .
(#8) BIKE TRAIL EASEMENT - VALUES
Chair Flint referred to the letter submitted by Rolf Erickson ,
Assessor .
Gerhardson reported that Erickson originally felt the bike trail
easement was of no value, but Erickson was informed of the
Council ' s feeling that residents should be compensated .
Vongries felt the dollar amount suggested is relatively low, and
the property owner may feel there is more impact to his property .
Gerhardson noted on most roads, the bike trail could be build
within the existing right-of-way, and they wouldn ' t have to pay
anything to the affected owner .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 1 , 1992
BIKE TRAIL EASEMENT - VALUES - CONT.
Ilse reminded them there is a potential to have similar amounts of
people going by the property with or without the trai ( crossing the
property.
Chair Flint stated the former Park Dedication ordinance did not
require one lot splits to pay a park fee , and the current ordinance
does , and rather than $200 .00 per lot , the City now charges 8% of
the value . He felt they should take all this into account when
making a decision .
Ilse felt the Park Commission may want to think more seriously
about requesting easements as in some areas a trail may never be
realized .
Wilson agreed .
Chair Flint felt they should spend their money on land acquisition
to ensure its availability for the future . He stated the only time
the City is allowed to request a trail easement is during the
subdivision process and they should take the easement whenever they
can .
Ilse suggested they review the trail system map again .
It was moved by Bradley, seconded by McMillan , to table this issue
until the next meeting . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
(#9) NEW BUSINESS
Stephen Johnston explained his letter of resignation was intended
to inform the Council of his frustration with the system, which
apparently got enough attention as a Council member was in
attendance that evening . He felt the Council is not interested in
the Park Commission and does not priorities parks very highly . He
felt the Commission needs to aggressively seek money to fund park
programs and the Council needs to hear the discussion on such
issues .
Wilson said Jabbour attended the meeting to assure the Commission
of the Council ' s support .
Johnston stated his frustration was not with the Park Commission .
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MINUI-ES OF TNE PARK CGMMISSIGN MEETINU OF SEPTEME3EF2 1 , i `:�':��
ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Ilse , seconded by McMillan , to adjourn the regular
meeting of the Park Commission at 10 : 10 p.m. Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
The next meeting wili be Tuesday , October 6, 1992 at 7 : 00 p.m.
_ • LL��it
�
Richard Fiint , Chair Person
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