HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-04-1992 Park Commission Minutes ,
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 1992
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ATTENDANCE 7 :00 P.M.
The Park Commission met on the above date with the foilowing
members present : Chairperson Dick Fiint , Susan Wilson , Alex
Vongries , Sherokee Ilse, Lili McMillan , Robert Howells , Phil
Bradley and Stephen Johnston . The following represented the City
staff : John Gerhardson , Public Works Director; and Shawn
Gustafson , City Engineer ; and Teri Naab , Recorder .
(#1 & #2) APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Vongries requested Page 6, paragraph 4, be changed tO read , " . . .
talked about the future development of Highwood Nature Trail , " and
the additional sentences form a new paragraph .z
Chair Flint recommended combining paragraphs 11 , 12 and 13 of that
page .
Vongries requested that Page 6, paragraph 13 be changed to read ,
"there were a number of conflicts between bikers and joggers on
the Luce Line Trail during the MS bike-a-thon" . He requested that
Page 8, paragraph 7 , be changed to read , " to recommend the taking
of whatever land is needed for a bike trail , and if not within the
drainage. . . "
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Bradley , to approve the minutes
of the June 2 , 1992 Park Commission meeting as amended . Ayes 8,
nays 0.
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by McMillan , to approve the
minutes of the July 6 , 1992 Park Commission meeting. Ayes 8, nays
0.
(#3) BIKE HIKE TRAIL REPORT - CITY ENGINEER
Gerhardson handed out an updated report from the City Engineer
which incorporates the suggestions of the Park Commission from the
last meeting . He reported that they have met with Hennepi-n County
to discuss the report and the cost of the project . He introduced
Shawn Gustafson of Bonestroo.
Gustafson explained that the appendix has been split into two parts
showing the cost of both options, within the right-of-way and
outside the right-of-way. He stated they have added an option to
bring the trail off the right-of-way along the north side of County
Road 6 which would eliminate the need for large amounts of fill in
that area.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT.
Gerhardson noted that under Option A, the portion of the trail
north of County Road 6 and immediately west of Old Crystal Bay Road
would be built along the side of the ditch and not at the grade of
County Road 6 . Accordingly, there would be less impact on the
adjacent property.
Chair Flint noted that this option would reduce the cost . Gustafson
stated the road would be improved only where the trail is within
the right-of-way. He clarified that Option A in this area would
reduce the cost by approximately $45 , 000 .
Chair Flint clarified that the costs included in the report do not
include land acquisition costs .
, Gustafson stated that was correct . He stated the easement needed
for the slope or for the trail for Option A would be approximately
the same along County Road 6 , which would be paid for by Hennepin
County Parks . He added that Hennepin County Parks typically desires
to maintain a buffer between the roadway and a bike trail .
Regarding the portion of the trail south of County Road 6 , Chair
Flint said that the Commission had decided to offer Option A for
property owners willing to grant a bike easement along their
property if they wished to save the trees that are now in the
right-of-way . He noted that more trees would be saved if the trail
were removed f rom the r i ght-of-way i n many areas . He exp I a i ned that
the letter to Hennepin County Parks requests that the County pay
for costs which are non-eligible for the use of MSA funds . The
Hennepin County Park Board will be meeting soon to vote on this
issue .
Gustafson stated that they can assume that where the trai I i s bu i I t
off the right-of-way, MSA funding cannot be used .
Gustafson reviewed the maps included in the report .
Vongries asked why storm sewer is not proposed for the entire
route.
Gustafson stated it is only proposed for the low areas along the
trail . He explained that the right-of-way plan allows for a 11 '
driving lane, 8' parking shoulder with curbing , 4' of grass buffer ,
8' of trail , and 2 ' of additional sod . He added that only the half
of the roadway affected by the trail will be upgraded with curbing
at this time .
Howell asked why the trail is not proposed for the west side of Old
Crystal Bay Road .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT.
Chair Flint explained there is an utility easement along the west
side which would impact the trail . He added the impact to
residential properties would be about the same on either side of
the road . He stated that the majority of development is to the east
of Old Crystal Bay Road , so it was felt that children would have
to cross Old Crystal Bay Road at some point to get to the school .
It seemed better to keep them all on the east side until they
arrive at the formal crosswalk to be provided between the church
and the school .
Ilse noted it was felt that traffic entering the school may be a
problem for bikers along the western side.
Howell asked if it was feasible to continue the trail along County
Road 6 , cross Highway 12 and connect to the rai Iroad track and back
to Old Crysta) Bay Road .
Bradley stated there is a problem with wetlands in that area.
Chair Flint explained that it was felt the City needed a
north/south trail system where our population is located . The Luce
Line already provides an excellent east/west trail .
Bradley stated that the rebuilding of the bridge across the
railroad at Old Crystal Bay Road would provide for a safer trail .
Wilson asked about maintenance of the trail .
Gerhardson noted it would be the responsibility of either the
County or the City, but felt it may be best for the City to
maintain in order to retain control over the trail .
Howell asked about the use of the trail by others.
Gerhardson stated use of the trail will be restricted to non-
motorized transportation .
Chair Flint explained that to the extent that the property owners
are willing to grant an easement , the City may be willing to plant
screening along the trail on private property, if the property
owner is willing to maintain the plantings .
Gustafson noted that 150 trees greater than 4" in diameter have
been identified in the report to be removed , if the right-of-way
option is followed .
Wilson noted that the cost in the report only provides for
replanting of trees to be removed .
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MIhJ�1TES OF� THE PARK CONEMIS:�ION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 199?_
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT.
Gustafson felt that MSA funding would only pay for replacement of
existing trees , not additional screening .
Chair Flint explained that the County is proposing to extend the
Baker Park Trail just west of Homestead Trail to connect to this
trail .
Howell asked about signage at the intersections .
Gustafson said there would be painted crosswalks .
Ilse suggested marking the crossing at the Luce Line Trail also .
Chair Flint asked about the Commission Members ' preference along
County Road 6. He felt it would be safer outside the right-of-way .
Howell asked about the grade of the trail as it goes back up to
County Road 6 .
Gustafson said that the County has required standards for bike
trails that they would need to follow.
Gerhardson noted that it may be necessary to go off the right-of-
way on the south s i de of County Road 6 between 01 d Crysta I Bay Road
and Willow Drive because of the steep grades.
Bradley suggested a street light be installed at Old Crystal Bay
Road and County Road 6 .
Gustafson said that there would be advanced signage along County
Road 6 of the trait and a painted crosswalk . He added stop signs
would be placed on the trail at the crossings .
Wilson felt that the portion of the trail near the County Road 6
crossing should not be difficult to maneuver .
Vongries asked about running the trail under County Road 6 .
Ilse said she would prefer that option because of the steep grade
in the area.
Wilson asked if Option A along County Road 6 would be viable for
roller bladers .
Gustafson assumed the requirements would be the same as for bikers .
He said they could study the cost of an underpass to go under
County Road 6 .
Bradley felt that would eliminate their safety concerns.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 1992;
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT.
Gerhardson stated the underpass would need to be lower than the
drainage ditch and may create a water probiem.
Johnston stated he has been involved in the installation of a
crossing such as this in another county, and explained how it was
done . He stated that the cost could be less than $20 ,000 if County
Road 6 could be closed briefly to allow excavation for the tunnel
rather than tunnelling .
Bradley asked about the road easement extending north of Old
Crystal Bay Road .
Gerhardson noted it is a platted right-of-way but may not be
public . He said he would find out who owns the easement .
McMillan asked if there would be additional costs if the abutting
land owners do not grant an easement for the trail .
Gerhardson reported that the Dickeys are interested in granting an
easement for the trail because they are very concerned about tree
loss . He said that some of the other owners were not as receptive .
It will be up to the owner whether he wants to grant the easement
to save the trees . The owner will not be compensated for the
easement south of County Road 6 because granting it is optional
with the owner .
McMillan expressed concern about the grade north of Watertown Road
if the trail follows the right-of-way in that area.
Gustafson said they can go into more detail after they review the
design requirements of the County.
Chair Flint asked that the costs be separated by section on the
trail so we will know how much our costs are increased if Option
A is elected .
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Bradley, to recommend approval
of the bike/hike trail following the right-of-way, except in areas
where the abutting land owners agree to grant an easement to
construct the trail off the right-of-way, contingent upon the
County pay i ng the add i t i ona I costs not covered by MSA fund i ng . Ayes
8, nays 0 .
Brad I ey asked i f they are ant i c i pat i ng for tra i I sh i fts due to I and
owners not granting an easement .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL - CONT.
Chair Fiint stated unless it is feasible from an engineering
standpoint , the trail will not be shifted , and if an easement
cannot be obtained , the trail will follow the right-of-way.
Chair Flint stated that the total cost of a trail off the right-
of-way is less expensive , but the impact of the inability to use
MSA funding for such a trail makes this option more expensive for
the City/County.
Chair Flint clarified that this motion does not recommend extension
of sewer and water to the school property. He stated this item is
a matter for the C i ty Counc i I and the Schoo I D i str i ct to work out .
Bradley asked that the cost of an underpass be determined prior to
Council review.
Chair Flint stated that if an underpass is a viable option , a
special meeting of the Park Commission will be called to discuss
the option .
(#4) RESPONSE TO LETTER - CANOE RACK SUMMIT PARK
Chair Flint explained he received a letter from Orono resident ,
Thomas Caswell , requesting canoe racks be placed at Summit Park for
rental .
Vongries stated there are "no boating" signs posted at all Orono
Parks . He felt that canoes were included in the interpretation .
McMillan felt that they would be allowing space for a limited
number of individuals to gain access to the lake .
Vongries felt that they have come this far without allowing
boating . He stated the canoe racks are ugly and noted there are
other accesses to the I ake. He fe I t th i s wou I d open up the door for
other types of watercraft launching . He stated that the Summit Park
swimming beach should be expanded .
Gerhardson explained that years ago, Long Lake and Orono agreed
that Orono would open a swimming beach on east end of Long Lake to
alleviate over crowding at the other swimming beach in Long Lake.
Part of that agreement was that there would not be boat launching
provided . He stated that this may be viewed as private use of
public land .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING �F AUGUS�� 4, 1992
CANOE RACK SUMMIT PARK - CONT.
It was moved by Bradley , seconded by Vongries, to recommend denial
of the request because i t i s a po I i cy of the Park Comm i ss i on to
maintain Summit Beach for the sole use of swimmers without boat
launching facilities provided . Ayes 6, nays 2 . Chair Flint and
Johnston voted nay .
Chair Flint said he opposed the motion as he felt it was good to
encourage less motorized watercraft on Long Lake . He felt it would
be good to enlarge the beach and noted some of the additional area
could be used by canoes and sailboards .
Johnston felt that canoes could be launched further down from the
swimming beach and not conflict with swimming activities.
Gerhardson reminded them that the parking lot has been enlarged
once , and to enlarge again may encourage additional traffic in the
area.
Gerhardson felt that a letter explaining the Park Commission ' s
position should be sent to the requestor on Orono stationary.
(#5) OTHER ISSUES
Chair Flint asked about the status of Bederwood playground
equipment .
Gerhardson said the equipment is scheduled to be shipped August
11th . He stated that the sub-committee has met to decide locations
and will meet again on site with the contractor to determine final
location of the play equipment and the skating rink .
****
Chair Flint asked about the signs and benches for the parks .
Gerhardson said they should be delivered any day.
****
Chair Flint asked Wilson/McMillan about a report on half court
basketball .
There was no report at this meeting , but it will be submitted for
the next meeting .
****
Chair Flint reported that the Park Commission still is not
receiving the Planning Commission agendas . Mabusth stated that this
may be a way for the Park Commission Members to be apprised of
upcoming applications .
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MINUTE5 OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4 , 1992
OTHER ISSUES - CONT.
Gerhardson suggested that a Park Commission representative attend
the Pianning Commission meetings if there is an issue of potential
park dedication requirements to be discussed .
Bradley stated that a staff person dealing with zoning applications
should be representing the Park Commission ' s interests in these
matters .
****
Chair Flint asked about Bederwood baseball field .
Ilse reported that she talked with Dr . Mich from the Orono schools , ',
and he saw the hockey arena and the baseball fields as separate I
issues and was in the position of waiting for OBA to forma � ly i
request to lease the school property for ball fields , and to date ,
OBA has not made that request .
It was moved by Bradley to invite Gary Larson to the next Park
Commission meeting . There was not a second and the motion failed .
W i I son fe I t the Park Comm i ss i on needed ta dec i de � f +��F ; i ,+n�,� t' I
donate money for the construction of such fields .
I I se fe I t that shou I d not be a factor for the OBr; _.. , �a e � .� . .- '�,
with their plans .
Johnston understood that OBA still owes Larson $10 ,000 for the
Bederwood Park . He felt that a private organization should not have
to build these types of facilities , and that it should be the
responsibility of the City . He said he would like the City to build
the entire complex on the site . He noted he would recommend the
ba I I f i e I ds be bu i I t for mu I t i -users. He sa i d that the fees charged
by OBA probably only cover the administration costs of running the
program and do not include capital expenditures .
Bradley noted that in the past the school districts have been the
providers of recreational facilities .
Vongries felt that there should be cooperation with surrounding
communities. He felt that the other communities within Orono School
District should participate in satisfying OBA' s need for
ballfields .
Johnston stated that he does not believe we should expend funds
for dug outs or concession stands . He felt we should help pay for
the grading , drainage and ag lime on site .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4, 1992
OTHER ISSUES - CONT.
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Howell , to appoint Vongries ,
Ilse and Bradley to a sub-committee directed to meet with Larson
to discuss the issue prior to the next meeting . Ayes 8, nays 0 .
****
Johnston announced that he was resigning from the Park Commission
effective that evening . Chair Flint expressed the appreciation of
the Park Commission for Johnston ' s many contributions while being
on the Commission . He asked Johnston to reconsider his decision .
****
Chair Flint stated that anyone that has an issue they wish to
discuss at the meeting , should contact Gerhardson or himself to
have it put on the agenda.
Ilse suggested adding "other business" on each agenda.
****
Johnston suggested discussing the issue of the baseball fields and
other upcoming planning issues with surrounding communities , such
as Medina and Independence . He asked that they also remember the
other school districts that are a part of Orono. He felt it
important to explain to these communities that if OBA does not come
to a reso I ve, they w i I I not have a ba I I f i e I d i n the upcom i ng year .
Bradley stated , that as a part of the sub-committee, he would be
willing to meet with these communities to discuss the issue .
ADJOURNMENT 9:50 P.M.
It was moved by Ilse , seconded by McMillan , to adjourn the regular
meeting of the Park Commission at 9 : 50 p.m. Ayes 8, nays 0 .
The next meeting wil ) be Tuesday , September 1 , 1992 at 7 :00 p.m.
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ichard Flint , Chair Person
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