HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-06-1992 Park Commission Minutes � •
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
ATTENDANCE 7 :08 P.M.
The Park Commission met on the above date with the following
members present : Chairperson Dick Flint , Susan Wilson , Alex
Vongries , Sherokee Ilse, and Lili McMillan . Robert Howells, Phil
Bradley and Stephen Johnston were absent . The following
represented the City staff : John Gerhardson , Public Works
Director ; and Glenn Cook , City Engineer . Mary Butler and Gabriel
Jabbour were present to represent the Council .
(#1 ) APPROVAL OF MINUTES
The minutes of June 2 , 1992 were not approved as the Commission did
not have time to review the minutes.
(#2) BIKE HIKE TRAIL REPORT - CITY ENGINEER
Gerhardson introduced Glenn Cook , City Engineer .
Cook reviewed the proposed trail . He stated they used a 6 foot
width for the trail along County Road 6 to estimate the cost .
Wilson asked if the trail would be separated from the roadway.
Cook explained that along Old Crystal Bay Road the roadway is 12
from the center line to the edge . There currently is an 8 gravel
shoulder . They are proposing a 19 street section with curb and
gutter . The ditch would be filled in and the trail would be built
aver the ditch area. There would be a grassed buffer between the
paved road and the trail . He explained on County Road 6 , the best
choice may be adjoining the roadway because of the cost . He said
he understood the trail along County Road 6 to be temporary.
Chair Flint felt that was a misunderstanding of the Hennepin County
Parks ' position . They indicated that the trail west of Homestead
Trail would be temporary until they acquired the remaining private
land in that area.
Cook stated that the area between Old Crystal Bay Road and
Homestead Trail along the north side of County Road 6 is a very
difficult area to build a trail due to the steep topography. He
said since the pathway is to be permanent along County Road 6 , it
would be best to construct a detached trail .
Cook noted with the option described along Old Crystal Bay Road ,
storm sewer would need to be installed to carry the drainage
currently carried by the ditch . He added temporary easements would
need to be secured for construction of this type of trail .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT - CONT.
Vongries asked the criteria for establishing the "green area" on
the map.
Cook said that Hennepin County established those areas .
Chair Flint said it was because of the configuration of the
existing buildings on the property. He said at a public
informational meeting , the residents along the proposed trailway
did not provide much input on the proposat .
Gerhardson stated that some residents did express concern about the
trail running across their property too close to the house.
Vongries expressed concern about changing from one type of trail
to another.
Butler said it is not uncommon to change types of trail .
Chair Flint noted that the entire trail should be 8 foot wide. He
added that along County Road 6, if the pavement is just widened ,
that area would be a 6 foot wide trail , but in his opinion a trail
on the shoulder of County Road 6 would be too dangerous . The trail
along County Road 6 also needed to be separated from the roadway.
Cook added that the many mature plantings may have to be removed
if the trail is located on the Old Crystal Bay Road right-of-way .
He noted that replacement plantings will be much smaller , younger
trees. This could be avoided if the trail were built on private
land beyond the trees , which are mostly on the right-of-way.
Chair Flint stated there is $45 ,000 estimated for removal of mature
trees and replacements along the entire trail for the option that
follows the right-of-way. He felt that it would be best to follow
the existing right-of-way unless adjacent property owners wanted
to grant an easement to allow the trail to be removed from the
right-of-way.
Gerhardson asked if the cost for the trail along County Road 6 has
been separated out from the entire cost .
Cook said there will be additional dollars included in the cost of
the trail along County Road 6 on his revised plan which will show
a separated trail .
Chair Flint asked if that section will qualify for MSA funding .
Gerhardson noted that Hennepin County planned to pay for that
section of the trail .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT - CONT.
Jabbour asked about connecting the trail to the newly proposed park
at the old sewer pond site .
Chair Flint noted that planning for the trail south of the Luce
Line would be the next step. He asked Gerhardson about the
feasibility of running the trail through the wooded area on the
City facility property.
Gerhardson said that it would require a lot of tree removal . The
trees go all the way to the parking lot for the facility . There
would be less destruction to the trees if the trail stayed within
the right-of-way in that section .
Chair Flint felt that because County Road 6 is wider and more
traveled the trail should be further off the right-of-way than on
Old Crystal Bay Road . He suggested Cook discuss the trail along
County Road 6 with the County as they have studied the area.
Wilson asked about the cost of the trail .
Chair Flint said the estimated cost is $68,000 over the MSA
fundings , which the County may be willing to pay. The County has
been willing to pay $200,000, not including the cost within Baker
Park .
Butler asked how the schools sewer and water works into this
project .
Chair Flint explained that trail will �e directly over the area
where the sewer and water pipes will run on Old Crystal Bay Road ,
and since the area woul � be disturbed to construct the trail , the
water an� sewer could be provided at the same time . It is not
essent � al to the trail , but would end up saving money in the long
run .
Butler stated there is a question of additional capacity of the
sewer line , and noted she would not agree to anyone spending money
without being assured that the additional service will be allowed
in the future and the service will be needed within the life time
of the pipe. She suggested the Park Commission not get into a
discussion on providing municipal services . She added that the
school may never realize the need to build additional facilities .
Cha i r F I i nt sa i d that the cost of the t ra i I i nc I udes more than j ust
the trail , and the more that can be eliminated , the easier it will
be to get approval . He suggested making the municipal services an
option .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT - CONT.
Cook stated an issue with Option A is the right-of-way. Six acres
of land would need to be acquired . He noted Option B wiil not
require land acquisition .
Chair Flint suggested Cook make the changes indicated and the Park
Commission will review it again at their August meeting.
Butler suggested revising the schedule because of the month delay
before the revised plan is to be considered by the Park Commission .
Ilse hoped they would do everything they could to save the trees.
McMillan asked about the feeling with regards to "curb appeal " .
Ilse said people may feel the City is trying to urbanize the area.
She felt that it may be a safety factor .
Chair Flint noted it has to be installed to get the MSA funding .
Butler noted that in past situations, residents have opposed the
installation of curbs and sidewalks , but later realized the need
for them.
It was moved by Ilse , seconded by McMillan , to direct the City
Engineer to revise the proposal per the comments presented and
present to the Park Commission at the August meeting . Ayes 5 , nays
0 .
Vongries stated that Option A will cost less according to the
estimate, but does not include land acquisition . He felt that a
dollar amount should be included to make the estimate more
realistic .
Cook stated that may set a standard they usually do not state a
cost for land acquisition since that may suggest a minimum price
that the City will pay.
Vongries felt they should consider the trail as within the right-
of-way f rom beg i nn i ng to end , un I ess the ad j acent I and owner of fers
additional land for the trail .
Chair FI int stated that he felt most people along the trai I favored
the existing right-of-way for the trail , but felt that both options
should be presented so that those who were willing to grant an
easement along their property to protect the trees could do so.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT - CONT.
Cook noted that under Option A, storm sewer is not provided the
entire length of the trail . The roadway wouid change from urban to
rural sections . He noted that a couple residents in the area are
opposed to the curb and gutter .
Gerhardson noted that for some properties , to deviate the trail
from the right-of-way may mean the trail would encroach the septic
system.
Vongries felt the curb would not be that much of a problem.
Gerhardson offered to meet anyone interested on the site.
Chair Flint asked Cook to add variations of Option A with the price
for those variations.
Wilson requested that the Park Commission Members be given at least
five days to review Cooks report prior to the next meeting .
(#3) PARK PLANNING
B. GOLF COURSE
Chair Flint explained that some Members of the Park Commission felt
that the golf course was something they should be involved in from
a planning standpoint .
Wiison noted it is a major recreational opportunity.
Butler explained that the golf course is a business that the City
is in which generates very little revenue. She said she has always
considered the golf course as something the City provides to the
general population .
Wilson fett that there may be some financial opportunity that they
could review.
Gerhardson felt that the course may be a bit underutilized , but
felt they are limited because it is a nine hole course .
Chair Flint asked if the Council considered it something they
solely wished to supervise or if they wished the Park Commission
to get involved with the course.
Butler said that if the Park Commission has ideas to generate more
revenue, that would be great .
Gerhardson suggested a work session to discuss the issue.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
GOLF COURSE - CONT.
McMillan suggested the Park Commission get involved and study the
golf course .
(#4) CONSIDERATION OF STATEMENT ON HIGHWAY 12
Chair Flint explained that per the previous action of the Park
Commission Members regarding maintaining Highway 12 on the existing
corridor , he had appeared at the MnDot public hearing and had
drafted a letter expressing those views . He asked for input on the
letter, a draft of which had been sent to all Park Commission
Members.
Ilse felt the impact on open space and solitude , the run-off and
impact to wetlands should also be included .
Wilson seconded the ecological impact of the freeway through Orono.
Jabbour stated that the Watershed District had endorsed the
southern route for Highway 12 but perhaps had not considered all
the water problems inherent in that route .
Ilse felt that the comments in the letter need to be stronger .
Wilson asked about the DNR' s opinion on the issue .
Jabbour nated they have chosen to stay out of the issue because of
their desire to build an access in Orono.
Chair Flint asked about the Council ' s position on the no-build or
minimum upgrade alternatives .
Jabbour stated that Orono is in an alliance with five other
communities on this issue, of which some of those communities
desire some upgrade . Rather than dissolve the alliance with those
communities, Orono has decided to agree to a build option on the
existing corridor .
Butler said she is not opposed to upgrading the corridor , and doing
nothing to the corridor may create safety hazards.
Jabbour suggested not using the term "no-build" , but rather limited
upgrade .
Ilse left the meeting at this time.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
(#6) SUBDIVISION APPLICATIONS:
A. 1550 SIXTH AVENUE NORTH
It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Wilson , to request a park
dedication fee for the subdivision application at 1550 Sixth Avenue
North . Ayes 4, nays 0 .
B. 3060 SIXTH AVENUE NORTH
Gerhardson stated that the property owner did not mind having the
bike trail cross his property. The applicant is required to give
up an additional 7 feet of right-of-way per a condition of
subdivision approval . He is also required to set aside a 10 foot
utility easement .
Chair Flint said he recommended that the Park Commission request
the trail easement immediately north of the utility easement . The
fair market value of the easement would reduce the park dedication
fee . He noted the City Council decided that the trail easement
would need to be paid for regardless of another underlying utility
easement . He said the Park Commission should adopt some guidelines
as to when it will take land in lieu of Park Dedication fees .
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Ilse , to recommend the City
request a 10 foot easement for a bike trail north of the County
Road 6 utility easement , the amount for which to be dedicated from
the park dedication fee for the subdivision application at 3060
Sixth Avenue North . Ayes 3, nays 1 , abstention 1 . Vongries voted
nay; McMillan abstained .
C. 845 OLD LONG LAKE ROAD
Chair Flint explained that the Park Commission at their last
meeting had agreed to request that the utility easement be expanded
to include a trail easement and that a park dedication fee also be
requested . The property owner appeared at the Council meeting and
stated that was an unfair practice . Chair Flint said he and
Gerhardson reviewed the property. There is a 66 wide right-of-
way, and the paved road is 21 wide . He noted there is over 20 of
additional right-of-way on each side and felt they may not need to
request the easement .
It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Wilson , to request park
dedication fees for the subdivision at 845 Old Long Lake Road .
Ayes 4, nays 0 .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 1992
OTHER
Jabbour reported that the LMCD wished to maintain Big Island as a
regional park. Hennepin County Parks has removed Big Island from
their Comprehensive Plan as a regional park because of the City ' s
request . The City has promised the Metropolitan Council that
eventually Orono will amend its Comprehensive Plan to delete Big
Island as a regional park . He stated he has talked to a few peopie
on Hennepin County Park Board asking them to consider dedicating
the land on Big Island to the City of Orono to retain as a wildlife
refuge. He asked the Park Commission to pursue this issue. He noted
Hennepin County Parks may also be interested in purchasing the two
I ots des i gnated for s i ng I e fam i I y deve I opment at the o I d sewer pond
site .
ADJOURNMENT 9:45 P.M.
It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Wilson , to adjourn the
regular meeting of the Park Commission at 9 : 45 p.m. Ayes 4, nays
0 .
The next meeting will be Tuesday, August 4, 1992 at 7 : 00 p.m.
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Richard Flint , Chair Person
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