HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-02-1992 Park Commission Minutes MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
ATTENDANCE 7 :05 P.M.
The Park Commission met on the above date with the following
members present : Chairperson Dick Flint , Susan Wilson , Stephen
Johnston , Sherokee Ilse and Phil Bradley , Alex Vongries and Lili
McMillan . Robert Howells was absent . The following represented
the City staff : John Gerhardson , Public Works Director ; and Teri
Naab, City Recorder .
(#1 ) APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Wilson clarified that the tour of the parks was to be held on May
5 , 1992 at 6:00 not on May 6th .
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Ilse, to approve the minutes
of the regular meeting of the Park Commission held on February 13 ,
1992 , with the above noted amendment . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
(#2) WELCOME NEW MEMBER
Chair Flint welcomed Lili McMillan and asked that she tell her
background to the Commission .
McMillan noted she was delighted to have the opportunity to serve
Orono . She noted that she is involved in various sports and hopes
to be able to promote recreational activity. Also, she indicated
an interest in the study of birds which has lead to an appreciation
of wildtife heritage and wishes to focus on preservation of what
Orono has available. She stated she has worked as a commercial
photographer and volunteered her skills to the Commission . She
noted she is looking forward to working with all the Commission
members , Council and staff .
Gerhardson noted the other new member, Robert Howells, was unable
to attend the meeting but will be at the next meeting .
(#3) ORONO BASEBALL ASSOCIATION (OBA) USE OF BEDERWOOD BALL DIAMOND
Chair Flint confirmed that a letter had been sent to the neighbors
adjacent to Bederwood Park concerning the use of the park by the
OBA. He noted they have received a letter from Gary Larson
outlining in detail the use of the park for the coming season .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
OBA USE OF BEDERWOOD PARK - CONT.
Gary Larson , OBA representative , was present . He indicated that
since the last Commission meeting , the proposal for the hockey
association to relocate the arena further westward had not met with
approval . The hockey association felt the move would cost an
additional $20 , 000 in grading . Larson stated that Neil Lawson ,
Orono schools, contacted him and indicated the School Board wished
the arena to be located on the site as far eastward as possible,
which was the original plan . He felt there would be an increase
in grading costs for the ball fields, and noted that he and
Gerhardson would be meeting with the contractor to obtain a base
price for the work .
Johnston noted he had attended the joint meeting of the park
commissions and felt frustrated and angry upon leaving . He stated
the hockey association was unwilling to work with the other
organizations on any part of the plan and felt the information
supplied by the hockey association ' s architect may have been
misleading . He felt the cost of grading for the ball parks will
be expensive, and noted the fields will be confined to 200 ' depth ,
which are adequate for little league but inadequate for any other
league play. He noted that he would not be willing to spend City
funds on ball fields with only one use.
Vongries asked why the School Board felt the arena should be
located eastward . He felt it should be determined what the best
use of the property is and most affordabte way to use the property.
Johnston explained that with the ball fields in the original site,
there was no room for expansion of the fields . He also noted that
the hockey association cited poor soils as the reason for the
rejection of the plan . The unacceptable fill is 3 ' in the
southwest corner of the proposed arena. He noted that with the
hockey association ' s plan, the ball fields would be developed on
property the School District currently has not purchased .
Larson noted that Lawson stated that would not be a problem.
Bradley suggested that the hockey association get the Planning
Commission ' s opinion of their proposal . He stated the Commission
may not approve of such use so near the residential property.
Gerhardson noted he would set up a meeting between a representative
of the hockey association , Planning Commission Chair Kelley, Chair
Flint , Johnston and Gerhardson to discuss the proposal .
Ilse suggested they include the hockey association ' s architect .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
OBA USE OF BEDERWOOD PARK - CONT.
Larson explained there may be some urgency on the part of the
hockey association to spend part of their money due to tax
ramifications, and that may be their reason for the push to
purchase the property and proceed . He also noted one reason for
having the ball fields to the eastern portion of the property was
to be able to tie into a possible future park on the residentiai
property.
Johnston felt it was more important to be able to construct the
fields at a reasonable grading cost and able to construct fields
that are adjustable to other leagues.
Chair Flint asked for public comments .
Curt Levang , 4010 Bayside Road , stated he appreciated OBA' s efforts
in trying to find alternate sites for little league and was happy
they were looking into fields that could be used by others .
Ilse noted the residents from the neighborhood were excited about
OBA' s commitment to future sites . She asked if there was a way to
post the schedule , including the occasional games and asked when
only one game is indicated , what time it would be played .
Larson stated the schedule had been posted last year , but the
occasional games were only practices and were not posted . Single
games start between 6 :00 and 6 : 30 p.m.
It was moved by Wilson , seconded by Bradley, to recommend approval
of the request by the Orono Baseball Association for the use of
Bederwood Ball Diamond for the 1992 season . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
Chair Flint thanked Larson for the excellent job he has done with
the OBA.
SUBDIVISIONS
A. CLIFF OTTEN
Gerhardson noted this is a subdivision of a lot line rearrangement .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
CLIFF OTTEN SUBDIVISION - CONT.
Cliff Otten was present and explained he is proposing the
rearrangement of the lot lines between Parcel A (market property)
and Parcel B ( residential property) , and a subdivision of Parcel
B and C as he wishes to sell the parcel with the existing
residence . He explained there would be no change in use and the
larger parcel is used for nursery stock . He explained the larger
parcel currently has two tax identification numbers, so thereforF
it really is not a creation of a new lot but merely a lot lir,�
rearrangement . He stated that Parcel A (market property) would be
reduced from 1 . 64 acres to 1 . 5 acres , but actually gains useable
space. Otten explained that th�- larger parcel would be legally
combined into one par�el after final approval . He explained that
the larger parczl will be 16. 4 acres and Parcel B will be
approximately 2 . 3 acres . He noted Mabusth supplied him with a copy
�f the park dedication ordinance and he was unclear as to when he
would be required to comply .
Gerhardson stated this is in a two acre zoning district .
Otten explained he started the subdivision process between the two
larger parcels 18 months ago, but due to an incorrect title
opinion , needed to go through the necessary paper work to clear up
the documents with regards to Old County Road 6 .
Gerhardson stated at th i s t i me he had no opt i ons for the Comm i ss i on
to consider .
Chair Flint felt this was a readjustment of lot lines .
Johnston reminded the Commission that park dedication fees have not
been paid for any of the land . He noted the intent of the
ordinance entitles the City to 8% of the value or 8% of the land .
He felt that if the 8% cash or land was not taken at this point ,
the chance may not occur again as Parcel C could be developed with
one home without being required to pay park dedication .
Otten stated that 8% of the valuation would make the lot line
rearrangement not worth doing .
Chair Flint informed the Commission that they would need to decide
whether this application is a subdivision or merely a lot line
rearrangement . He asked if it were necessary to request an
easement for a bike trail along County Road 6 .
'Gerhardson reminded the Commission that property on the north side
of County Road 6 is owned by Hennepin Parks , which could be used
for trail .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
CLIFF OTTEN SUBDIVISION - CONT.
Chair Flint noted that during consideration of the McCulley Road
property, an easement was requested for a future bike trail to
connect to County Road 6 . He explained to Otten that it was hoped
that the trail proposed to connect Baker Park to the Luce Line
could be developed through property owned by Otten directly north
of Old Crystal Bay Road North .
Ot ten commented that h i s w i fe i s opposed to mu I t i -use t ra i I s as she
feels they do not work . They also feel that public trails should
be located near highways to allow accessibility of emergency
vehicles to the trail .
Otten noted there are currently three existing lots as there are
three different tax parcels. He stated that the subdivision
process is used at this time to facilitate the lot line
rearrangement . Otten reviewed that the original subdivision
request only involved Parcel B and C and has been granted
preliminary approval , but he had decided to hold up the process to
incorporate Parcel A.
Johnston suggested that the Planning Commission and Council be made
aware that the Commission was given no advance warning of the need
to decide on this application .
Johnston pointed out that at the last Council meeting , they
questioned whether the City had the right to request a specific
portion of land through the park dedication process .
Gerhardson felt it was a matter of negotiation .
Johnston stated that most other cities dictate the portion of land
they w i sh to rece i ve and wou I d have taken the b i ke t ra i I on the
Otten property.
Chair Flint clarified that Otten really is dividing the 2+ acre
parcel with the existing residence from a larger parcel and
therefore it is a subdivision .
Gerhardson questioned that if park dedication is requested at this
time, how is it limiting future Commissions .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
CLIFF OTTEN SUBDIVISION - CONT.
Chair Flint agreed and noted that if the park dedication fee were
collected today, it would be based upon current valuation rather
than valuation at the time of future subdivision . Flint then
reviewed the ordinance and point out it states that "any land which
is further subdivided shall be subject to the requirement of the
ordinance then in effect and credit shall be given for any charges
previously imposed upon the land if the subdivider can prove the
fees were previously paid" , and therefore additional money could
be collected on a future subdivision .
Johnston suggested a trade-off of land on another parcel to be used
for bike trail in lieu of park dedication on this property, or a
trade for park improvements. He suggested that the park dedication
ordinance be amended to include Class I subdivisions .
Chair Flint thought Class I subdivisions have been included within
the park dedication ordinance and directed Gerhardson to review the
original ordinance to find out exactly what type of subdivisions
the ordinance pertains to.
Bradley stated he was not convinced that it was fair to assess 8�
of the valuation on agricultural land . He noted the intention of
the park dedication fee was to pay for parks when use or need has
increased because of an increase in population due to development
in the area.
Vongries point out that the assessor assigns a valuation , and each
parcel will have a different allotment as they all have different
uses .
Gerhardson noted Parcel A is not a part of the consideration for
park dedication fees .
Johnston felt they should require park dedication for Parcel A
also.
Bradley felt assessing Parcel A was like assessing 8% sales tax to
a property .
Johnston stated that 8% of the valuation for the entire property
would be approximately $25 , 000, and felt this would deter the
applicant from continuing with the process but felt the City was
entitled to the funds .
Chair Flint suggested they exclude Parcel A.
Johnston reminded they that Parcel A has never paid a park
dedication and should pay now.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
CLIFF OTTEN SUBDIVISION — CONT.
Chair Flint reviewed that if Parcel B and C were not being divided
at this time, Parcel A would not be considered at ali for park
dedication because it is merely a lot line rearrangement .
Vongries noted the exclusion of Parcel A will not dramatically
affect the City, but may deter the appiicant from continuing .
However , he reminded them that they cannot consider the person
requesting and noted they should consider the precedent they are
setting .
Chair Flint stated that Otten doesn ' t want to pay the park
dedication fee at this time, the application could be changed to
a lot line rearrangement .
Johnston suggested they assign dedication for only 2 acres of the
14 acre parcel and collect the remainder at the time of a future
subdivision of the property.
Vongries felt they could not do that .
Wilson stated she had a problem requesting so much money from
someone who is not developing the land further.
Johnston disagreed and stated they cannot distinguish between the
two scenarios .
Chair Flint felt park dedication should not be required for Parcel
A.
Johnston asked if the developer of Sugarwoods came in with a
proposal to rearrange all lot lines , how the Commission felt about
reassessing park dedication fees .
Chair Flint felt they would not be charged additional money .
It was moved by Johnston , seconded by Vongries , to recommend the
application be considered as a subdivision for park dedication
purposes, and to request payment of a park dedication fee in lieu
of park land dedicated .
It was moved by Bradley , seconded by Wilson , to amend the motion
to clarify that the subdivision is between Parcel B and C. Ayes
3 , nays 4. Motion failed .
The Commission voted on the original motion . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2 , 1992
CLIFF OTTEN SUBDIVISION - CONT.
It was moved by Ilse, seconded by Johnston , to recommend that if
an utility easement is taken along County Road 6 , that a bike traii
be added onto that easement . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
B ) ALBERT HANSER
Gerhardson noted that this a five lot subdivision , with one
existing residence . He suggested they consider a bike trail
easement along the road .
Johnston asked if the topography in that area would allow for a
bike trail .
Gerhardson noted he currently is applying for a conditional use
permit to widen the shoulder in that area.
Johnston asked if the railroad is expected to remain for a long
time .
Gerhardson noted it currently only serves the 3M plant in
Hutchinson .
Johnston stated that it may end up being abandoned and perhaps
being used in the same manner as the Luce Line Trail .
Bradley suggested they adopt as an operating policy the taking of
an additional 10 ' for bike trails along roadways .
Cha i r F I i nt exp I a i ned he t r i ed to get the Counc i I to ag ree w i t h
that policy , but they felt each application should be reviewed .
It was moved by Bradley , seconded by Ilse , to recommend payment of
a park dedication fee for the subdivision proposal by Albert
Hanser , and to request a 10 ' bike trail easement to be taken along
the utility easement along Fox Street . Ayes 7 , nays 0 .
(#4) PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT BEDERWOOD PARK
Gerhardson passed out a legal opinion regarding ADA. He stated
bids wil ) be opened on March 20th for playground equipment to be
located at Bederwood Park . He stated the opinion suggests there
will be no additional requirements for the equipment for 6 months
to 1 year with regards to the new law. He explained there will be
some requirements on accessibility , but noted modifications could
be made later .
Chair Flint suggested the sub-committee review the bids and return
to the Commission with a recommendation .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT BEDERWOOD PARK - CONT.
Vongries noted he would not be able to participate with the sub-
committee review.
Johnston noted that at the joint meeting he was approached by
Debbie Lewis regarding the fail soccer league, and requested that
Bederwood Park be upgraded to allow for soccer play. He stated
Lewis noted the field should be flatter and enlarged and was too
rough to play on .
Chair Flint suggested Gerhardson contact Ms . Lewis to discuss the
possibilities .
(#5) PARK NAME SEWER PLANT PROPERTY
Wilson suggested French Lake Nature Preserve or Wetlands .
Ilse felt using any name with "French" in would be too confusing
with French park so near . She asked about Crystal Bay Nature
Preserve .
Johnston felt there may be confusion with the Crystal Bay
Playground .
Gerhardson suggested they check with the museum for suggestions .
Wilson volunteered to research the possibilities .
Vongries felt it more appropriate to call it a pond , not a nature
preserve as that suggests someth i ng much more than what i s on s i te .
McMillan suggested the name be specific to what the park is
designated for .
Wilson suggested they put up wood duck houses on the trees on the
property. She also pointed out that there is a lot of trash at the
site .
Gerhardson expected the bituminous trash to be removed when the
load limits were removed .
Wilson noted the site was not appropriate for public use at this
time .
(#6) LETTER OF APPRECIATION LES KELLEY
Chair Flint reminded the Commission that it was suggested at the
last meeting that a letter of appreciation of Les Kelley be sent
to the newspaper for publication .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
LETTER OF APPRECIATION - CONT.
Bradley explained that he felt the article would not have been
finished immediately , so he focused on the letter instead .
I I se stated that the art i c I e to the newspaper was st i I I a good i dea
as it is important for the Community to see some sort of
appreciation to Les Kelley from the City .
Bradley suggested the Council adopt a resolution of appreciation
at their next meeting .
Chair Flint pointed out that it was suggested that a garden be
planted at the new facility site in memory of Les Kelley .
Gerhardson noted there will not be much area designated for such
purposes .
Vongries suggested planting something at the Navarre Park .
(#7) JOINT MEETING REPORT
Johnston informed the Commission that a presentation was given by
Tim Urkula, Westwood Professional Services, regarding his
involvement with Independent ' s park improvement project . He stated
that Urku I a rea I i zed that th i s area i s d i fferent i n that sports are
handled through small associations rather than cities or schools .
Urkula realized that demographics were not available for review and
offered to contract with the surrounding cities to provide them
with the demographics of the area. Johnston felt that it was a
good i dea to research the demograph i cs of the area, but fe I t i t
could be done through a volunteer effort of all cities .
Vongries reported that bike trails were also discussed , and it was
determined that each individual Commission is establishing bike
trails within their cities which are not connecting outside the
city limits as the projects are not being coordinated with
surrounding cities.
Johnston noted meetings will be held four times a year with each
city sending at least one representative to the meetings .
Bradley stated that it has been a fight to get the school to assume
responsibility for this project .
Vongries stated that the development of the hockey/ball field site
was dependent upon the passage of a bond referendum.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 2, 1992
JOINT MEETING REPORT - CONT.
Johnston noted the referendum would actually be used for repair and
maintenance of existing facilities. Also, the school is not
proposing any improvements to the hockey/bait field site, and any
improvements to be made would be paid for through private
organizations.
Chair Fiint stated that OBA has let the Commission know they plan
to request funding from Orono for the ball field.
Bradley felt the school district is asking themselves at this time
how much time and money they wish to commit to sports programs.
He stated the trouble with private organizations running activities
was the uncertainty of the future of the organization.
ADJOURNMENT 10:05 P.M.
It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Ilse, to adjourn the regular
meeting of the Park Commission at 10:05 p.m. Ayes 7 , nays 0.
The next meeting wiil be Monday, April 6, 1992 at 7 :00 p.m. in the
Council Chambers.
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Richard Fiint , Chair Person
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