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HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-06-1992 Park Commission Minutes MINDTES OF THE PARR COMMISSION MEETING OF JAAiIIARY 6, 1992 ATTSNDANCE 7:12 P.M. The Park Commission met on the above date with the following members present: Chairperson Dick Flint, Susan Wilson, Alex Vongries, Sherokee Ilse and Phil Bradley. Stephen Johnston and Bruce Kokal were absent. Li li McMi l lan was an observer. The fo l lowing represented the City staff: John Gerhardson, Public Works Director; and Carole Haseman, City Recorder. (#1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF NOVEMBBR 5, 1991 Wilson questioned the last paragraph on page 3 and did not understand the second sentence, "She noted the proximity to Noerenberg Park. She felt there would be a single family residence which would have to be screened if the area were to be developed as a park and the entrance would have to be marked." Wilson felt that something had been left out. Bradley asked if Item #4 could be referred back for verification. Gerhardson suggested approving the minutes contingent upon clearing it up. It was moved by Ilse, seconded by Bradley, to approve the minutes of the November 5 , 1991 Park Commission meeting contingent upon verification from the tapes. Ayes 5, nays 0. (#2) APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF DECEMBER 3, 1991 Vongries questioned page 5 and several references to Park Commission budget. He stated that the Park Commission does not have a budget and that half way down the page read, "Ilse asked what the Park Commission's budget consists of." He felt she probably asked how much is in the Park fund and wants it to read as follows : "Ilse asked how much is in the Park fund." Gerhardson said to use the words, "Park Dedication fund. " Ilse agreed to the clarification that she wanted to know how much money there was. Vongries also noted that on page 6 in the first paragraph reference was made to Park Commission' s budget and it should say Park Dedication's fund. He questioned that page 7 made reference to Chair Kelley. Flint stated that it was reporting on the meeting with Kelley. Bradley clarified that it was Planning Commission Kelley. Vongries said to redo the Minutes to read, "Chair Flint noted that 1 Planning Commission Kelley.. ." He also brought to everyone' s attention that on page 10 it reads, "Vongries suggested he ask the OBA..." It should read, "Vongries suggested Gerhardson ask the OBA..." Wilson noted that on page 5, 3rd paragraph, "Mr. Duke" should read "Mr. Duke Hust" and that actually his name is George Hust. It was moved by Wilson, seconded by Ilse, to approve the Minutes of the December 3, 1991 Park Commission meeting as amended. Vongries asked for an explanation on page 10 as to CDBG fund. Flint informed him it referred to Community Development Block Grant. Vongries asked that it be spelled out somewhere. Flint agreed that it be added with initials after it. Flint asked for a vote as it had already been moved and seconded. Ayes 5, nays. 0. Flint asked the observer if she wished to add something to the agenda. Lili McMillan was introduced as an observer who is interested in being a member of the Park Commission. (#3) WORK PROJECTS FOR 1992 Flint noted the letter received from Ron Moorse since the last meeting. In response to Moorse's letter, Flint submitted an outline of work projects for 1992 and prioritized certain items by using double asterisks to indicate items subject to financing. He asked for discussion of other items to be added or deleted. Wilson asked if keeping the weir put into the pond was in there or not. Gerhardson brought everyone up-to-date on that by stating that the DNR has determined the overall high water mark for the pond. They have given him a number and he has taken a drawing that Brad Peterson has done and is having it certified by an engineer to show the level and as Ceil Strauss indicated to put in + or - a foot and a half. Wilson asked what was the designated high water mark. Gerhardson said it would be somewhere between 4' and 5' + or - a foot and a half to have that flexibility for some reasons. The plate has been ordered and is just a matter of putting it in. It will probably go in this winter. Vongries questioned Flint's reference to "Regular ongoing work projects" for whom? Flint explained that he made a list of things that he knows the staff does on a regular basis. They do put in the docks, cut the grass in the parks, they do operate the golf course. 2 Gerhardson responded with a "No" and explained that the golf course is under his supervision and is not maintained or operated out of the budget nor the Parks Department. Flint stated that it was still a responsibility of the staff if you are supervising that. Gerhardson said, "Yes" and stated that it was a separate department all by itself. Bradley asked the reason it was treated as in independent agency - independent of Public Works, independent of the Parks and if there was a bookkeeping reason or political reason. Gerhardson responded that it was all of the above and explained that was the way they decided to do it at acquisition and have not chosen to change the procedure until just recently when the Park Commission decided to take a look at it to include in the Park system. Vongries suggested that "Operation of golf course" be stricken because it is not part of our responsibility. Wilson suggested that it be recommended to become part of the Commission's responsibility. Gerhardson said it may be on a special work project for "92" . Vongries said to bring golf course under per view of the Park Commission as an objective. Gerhardson replied in the affirmative. Ilse added that under Special Work Projects - Bederwood play equipment, there had been other parks talked about such as Navarre, for possibly getting some better equipment. Flint told Ilse that would fit under item 2 - Complete the planning for 1992 upgrade of parks and explained that he broke it up by quarters. Plan for it in the first quarter and in the second and third quarter upgrade parks for new signs and benches. After some discussion he felt that it would be best to take out reference to signs and benches because it relates to more than that. Vongries suggested to use the wording "new signs, benches, etc. " Wilson asked about the land in Crystal Bay. Flint said that was going to be part of the overall planning process. Vongries added that there would be a public information meeting with the neighborhood for this property. After some discussion as to timing for the park plan, Gerhardson suggested that Flint ask the Council. Flint referred back to page 9 of the November Minutes and noted that discussion had been made at 3 that time and it also appeared on the Council Minutes that John sent out. In reviewing the Minutes, Flint pointed out that it was his interpretation of the discussion at the Council meeting that the Council wanted it included as part of the overall plan and noted the following: Flint received approval from the Council for $950.00 for the sewer plant site; he informed the Council of the Park Commission's decision to hold a public hearing (public information meeting) to discuss the property that the City owns in the Crystal Bay neighborhood; Jabbour said that the Crystal Bay site would be the last to be developed probably in 1 1/2 years; Mayor Peterson explained the Crystal Bay residents would like to see a Little League ball field, tennis court or hockey rink; Flint suggested additional property would be needed to build a little league ball field; Jabbour said that walking paths are continuously brought up and that the LMCD chose to take the position endorsing the existing Comprehensive Plan regarding Big Island and felt an overall Comprehensive Plan would be helpful when attending meetings of other organizations; Goetten felt because of the level of involvement of the Park Commission a liaison should be established to help the Commission with their work; Flint noted that would be helpful as Gerhardson is the only person serving as liaison and cannot keep up with the requests and advised that other cities receive money in a combination of ways such as user fees, operating budget, park dedication fees and bonding; Goetten felt a task force should be formed and organized by Moorse to review this matter. Afterwards Flint told everyone that this was how an overall Comprehensive Plan started and that Moorse and Gerhardson recommended to go for the Community Development Block Grant. Wi 1 son stated her concern that the Counci 1 might get antsey and do something in the interim whi le the Park Commission is working on a plan. Bradley agreed and felt it should be clarified point blank to the Council to recognize that it will take 1 - 1 1/2 years to do a plan. Wilson asked if they heard about the $25, 000.00 that was recommended to ask for at the last meeting. Gerhardson explained that Flint will address the Council with that issue on the 13th. Flint said there are three things to take up with the Council - sewer plant site, the money and Sandy Beach. Vongries reiterated his earlier statement of taking operation of golf course out of the first part and insert another item in first quarter to read as follows, "Assess advisability of bringing the golf course under per view of the Park Commission." The other item that is there will fit - "Complete planning for 1992 upgrade of parks - new signs, benches, etc." He questioned another item in the first quarter - "Plan for park at Orono Sewer Plant" and felt it is premature because of not knowing whether a park is going to be there yet. Flint said it should remain on the schedule. 4 Ilse questioned the wording "**items related to funding" could mean subject to outside funding or to approval for the use of Park Dedication funds. Flint agreed and explained that some of the things don't take money. Ilse questioned if everything except for the Comprehensive Plan meant money asked for within dedication. Flint explained that no money was being asked for that at this point and added his dislike of the use of asterisks. Vongries suggested to correct the spelling of the word dyke to dike on page 3. Upon discussion regarding the use of asterisks it was suggested by Bradley to use the number ( # ) sign in place of double asterisks for items subject to funding. Ilse expressed a concern about items subject to funding and asked if it means to seek approval. Flint answered yes. Gerhardson asked if the golf course should be looked at as a Commission task or to include it in the Comprehensive Plan. Vongries questioned the eagerness of including the golf course. ' Flint responded that it is not a good administrative way to handle things and that it is clearly part of overall recreation for Orono and why isn't it under the Park Commission. Wilson said she would like to see the group be concerned with all recreation - the team sports and their facilities as well as neighborhood parks, open spaces and that the group could oversee the whole aspect which is a better balance. Gerhardson mentioned that park activities are going on now. Wilson commented about the heavy use of skiing and sliding in the winter. McMillian, the observer, added presently the park is used for sledding and cross country skiing and it is used almost as much in the winter as summer. Gerhardson added that people come by bus loads from Minneapolis. The DNR cuts in a cross country trail when they are grooming the Luce Line. Flint felt it would be good to distinguish between the summer and winter activities and theoretically let it run independently as a golf course and use it during the winter as part of the recreational program. 5 Gerhardson said it could also be some revenue for the Park. Bradley asked if the acquisition cost of the golf course was paid off. Gerhardson said the debt was retired and no debt would be taken over. Ilse asked where the money goes now. Gerhardson explained that it goes toward the operation and any profits go into the general fund and although there is not much profit, it does operate in the black. Wilson said that golf is very popular and lessons could increase the revenue. Flint said there is no question about looking at it but the issue is whether to do it separately during the first quarter or to do it as part of the Comprehensive Plan in the fourth quarter. Bradley felt there is no significant difference or reason to be accelerated to the first quarter and that there is no urgency to it. Flint expressed that he would like to get something done but it makes more sense to do it as part of the Comprehensive Plan and get public involvement in the process. Bradley stated that there is a philosophical question up to this point and added that the City is not, in terms of parks and recreations, particularly involved in running. They simply mow the grass and put out docks. All the programs are run by the OBA or the schools or somebody else. To take over the golf course, the Park Commission would become an operating agency and that would lead to over forms of administration and we would begin to administer, run programs, youth programs for instance. He said to recognize that you cross the line when you get into something like that. Flint agreed and said that we might ultimately have a staff that is running the program like other cities and we should hold it and do it as part of the Comprehensive Plan. Bradley agreed to put it off to the fourth quarter. Wilson agreed to it and taking a careful look of going into the Comprehensive Plan. Bradley questioned if the last item in the fourth quarter - "Complete planning for recreation complex at County Road 6 and Old Crystal Bay Road" is the school property, the extent of involvement in planning, and if it is the school's project. Flint agreed and that we do not want to get involved in a major way. Johnston will be showing sketches of that area at the next meeting and wi 1 1 be acting as a cata lyast to move the thing a long. At this time there is no contemplation that would cost money. 6 Vongries stated that the first paragraph on same page - "Work with Orono Baseball and School Board in planning for recreational complex" is listed under the fourth quarter for completion. He noted that it can't be done and is not up to the Park Commission. Flint explained that it is a goal and is not going to be finished in the second and third quarter. Vongries suggested to use continue planning with Orono Baseball Association and School Board. Flint asked when the OBA will be out of Bederwood. Bradley answered next year or the year beyond. Gerhardson agreed. F 1 int agreed to put it in as continue. He a 1 so exp lained to I 1 se that the recreational complex plans show a skating and hockey facility and another plan without it. No one knows which of those will occur. Flint expressed that one problem with listing specifics under the overall plan is a legal concept incorporated in the latin phrase, expressio unus excusio ulterius, which means the expression of one is the exclusion of another, and once things are listed you wonder whether there are other specifics that should be listed. Vongries suggested putting in "interalia" to do the job. Bradley added another phrase, "the enumeration of something does not preclude. " Gerhardson noted that in the second and third quarters under "Install Ag lime on an experimental basis (West Long Lake Road)" it should be East Long Lake Road. Wilson mentioned that besides the bike/hike trail there are other areas that constantly need attention such as the biking shoulder on County Road 6 which is totally inadequate as the shoulder is too narrow and not in good shape for bikes. Flint explained that he checks the Hennepin County Work Schedule regarding County Road 6. If they do work on County Road 6, we will ask them to put in a bike trail. Gerhardson added that in March Hennepin County sends out a plan of roads to be upgraded during the summer. If there is a road on there that we have a concern for , we will bring it up to the Park Commission. Flint asked if there was anything else and that he would incorporate Vongries' phrase (and to pick up Latin in the Minutes - expressio unus). He said it will be rerun and could be attached to the Minutes and sent to Mr. Moorse. 7 It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Wilson to approve the Work Projects for 1992 as modified. Ayes 5, Nay 0 . (#4) LTPDATE PLAYGROUND EQOIPMENT BEDERWOOD PARR. Vongries reported that the subcommittee decided the amount that could be spent and prepared rough specifications to be submitted to three manufacturers for proposals. He said previously $10,000.00 had been talked about for equipment and $5,000.00 for installation. After some consideration for needs and population, it was felt that $20, 000.00 would cover it - equipment for two age groups (2 to 5 and 6 and up) and rather than have combined equipment it was better for safety reasons to separate the equipment by distance . At Bederwood there is specifically a redwood climber for younger kids and for the older age a s 1 ide and a four-swing set. The subcommittee fe lt the need to add for the younger kids a swing set with assorted seats that encloses the child such as an animal type (Donald Duck), 2 spring riders which are little animals on coil springs, a couple of benches for grownups, and a waste receptacle to keep it clean. For the older age group it was talked about adding 2 diggers and a large play system for $11, 400.00 which is the most expensive item on the list. A natural redwood construction with subdued colors for plastic components would be preferred. Metal posts have some advantages over redwood and if cost considerations and colors were favorable that might be a preferable way to go. Bradley asked if the figures for the various components were list prices from the catalogue and if the concept is to ask for bids on equipment. Vongries answered yes and said installation would be contracted separately to avoid the sales tax. Bradley also asked if the bid would be done on individual items. Vongries said they might be able to purchase different portions from several vendors. Gerhardson said the next step would be to find out the costs before taking it to Council and that the money comes from the Park Dedication fund. Flint asked Gerhardson if the requirements for bids over $15, 000.00 have been complied with by going with the RFP's. Gerhardson answered yes. Wilson asked if bids would go out for the installer. Gerhardson explained that two proposals (RFP's ) would go out for equipment only and one for the installation. This procedure avoids paying the sales tax. Flint added that two other methods had been discussed for installation. One was to use city crews but that experience and 8 manpower was not available and the other was the possibility of Maple Grove working on it as a moonlighting deal. Vongries said the installer should insure against accidents. Flint asked for the ballpark number to be given - $20, 000.00 which includes the $1,200.00 in tax or $19,000.00. Vongries replied that no number would be given just a list of equipment. It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Wilson, to approve the proposal going out for RFP' s on the equipment. Ayes 5, Nay 0. Gerhardson said that he wi 11 proceed to get this out within the next couple of weeks. Flint added that this is a three step process - first RFP's go out for proposals; secondly evaluate and select one of the proposals, if appropriate; and thirdly recommend one to the Council. After some discussion he said an evaluation could be made on the 2nd of March and taken to the Council on the 9th. (#5) PARR DEDICATION FUND BALANCE Flint said the report shows the status of the Park Fund that was in question from last time. This brings it up historically since the establishment in 1975 and lists the gradual buildup to over $205,000.00. He questioned how the amount of $52,000.00 was generated in 1990. Gerhardson said he would get that clarified by the Finance Director. Wilson asked how fees were earned prior to the 8$. Gerhardson said it was depended on zoning district - 2 acres, 1 acre, 5 acres, 1/2 acre, 1/3 acre. (#6) CRYSTAL BAY PLAN REVIEW Flint said the Crystal Bay Plan was put on the agenda because Cliff Swenson is working on this for a senior project at the University to be done by May and was going to show us some layouts. At this time no one was able to contact him. (#7) OBA/PLANNING FOR SCHOOL PROPBRTY Flint asked if there was anything for the planning of the school property. Gerhardson said Johnston was expected to be at the meeting with some preliminary layouts . Bradley asked if he was working in conjunction with the OBA. 9 Gerhardson answered that Johnston is a little bit but more so with the overall plan of the School District. Ilse responded that it was with the Asst. Superintendent/Business Manager, Neal Lawson. Gerhardson added that the School District is willing to listen and supply any information but is very non-commital. Flint said sooner or later this will have to be presented to the School Board. OTHER ISSDES Flint asked for other issues and Wilson asked for confirmation of the next meeting date which is February 13th. ADJOIIRNM$NT 8:42 P.M. It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Wilson, to adjourn the regular meeting of the Park Commission at 8 :42 P.M. Ayes 5, nays 0. The next meeting will be February 13, 1992 at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers. /;,� - ' ' _ �- ' �,�.�,. t-2- ✓ � � Richard Flint, Chair Person 10