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Home My WebLink About12-03-1991 Park Commission Minutes MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 3, 1991 _ ATTENDANCE 7: 06 P. M. The Park Commission met on the above date with the following members present: Chairperson Dick Flint, Susan Wilson, Bruce Kokal , Stephen Johnston, Alex Vongries, Sherokee Ilse and Phil Bradley. Lester Kelley was absent. The following represented the City staff: John Gerhardson, Public Works Director; and Teri Naab, City Recorder. (#1) WELCOME NEW MEMBER SHEROKEE ILSE Chair Flint welcome the newest member of the Park Commission, Sherokee Ilse. Ilse said she has been interested in serving on the Commission for quite some time an� was excited to get a chance to work towards good planning for the Orono park system. She noted some of her concerns were environmental issues and maintaining a balance between development and nat�re. She stated that she is excited about the bike/hike trail and felt some of the park equipment needed to be updated. She was interested in what the Commission would be doing with respect to the comprehensive park plan. (#2) INTROUCTION OF CITY ADMINISTRATOR R�N MOORSE Chair Flint introduced the City Administrator, Ron Moorse to each of the Commission members and thanked him for his attendance at the meeting. Flint asked Moorse what he felt the role of the Commission was for Orono. Moorse felt that it was the Commission ' s responsibility to bring the thoughts of the residents to the Council ' s attention wizh regards to City parks and facilities. (#3) APPROVAL OF MINUTES Wilson noted that several pages were missing from the minutes in her packet. She asked that the matter be tabled until the next meeting. All members agreed. Chair Flint brought to the attention of the members that Lhey have also received a portion of the minutes from the Council meeting of Octob�r 14th, and asked them to review those minutes. (#4) SANOY BEACH SWIMMING BEACH REVIEW Chair Flint noted that a letter had been sent to residents near the Sandy Beach Swimming Area asking for comments on the 1991 swimming season without the installation of the dock. Wilson asked if the clasing time had been changed. 1 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMI��ON M��fi�N� �� M�� SANDY BEACH SWIMMING BEACH REVIEW — CONT. Gerhardson noted it had not, but increased enforcement was supplied to ensure proper closure time. Maron Koistinen, 1535 Minnie Avenue, noted he is in favor of the dock being reinstalled, but stated he does not live directly near the beach area. He noted the swimming area is small and the dock doubles the play area for kids. He indicated that he had talked with the kids in the area, and explained the dock had not been installed because of their behavior and suggested to them that if their behavior changed during the past season, perhaps the dock would be reinstalled. Chair Flint asked if the beach area is ever too crowded. Koistinen noted that at times it may be with up to approximately 20 kids. He indicated that it is also hard to tell where the beach property ends and the private property begins. Bruce Feldman, 3898 Cherry Avenue, noted he lives adjacent to the beach area, and noted the situation had improved immensely, and stated he also spoke for his neighbors, Dick, and Beth Nelson, also adjacent to the beach. He noted in the past they had been abused by teenagers at all times. He noted no decrease in family use of the beach area, but a decrease in use by troublemakers. He felt that the area could not support as large a dock as the City had previously installed. He stated that about 97% of the problem has been corrected. Chair Flint asked Feldman if he had noticed increased police protection. Feldman noted he had not but had not been looking for it either. Vongries asked if more smaller children had used the area. Feldman felt the beach had been used by more smaller children with their parents. Bradley asked about the easement noted as Grant Street on the plat map. Gerhardson explained that it is considered an unimproved right— of—way and had not been designed as a swimming beach such as Sandy Beach Swimming Area. Chair Flint asked about the other access further to the east. Gerhardson noted that is only a boat launch. He noted the Sandy Beach Swim area is approximately 30' wide, with the improved area directly adjacent to Feldman. 2 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 3, 1991 SANDY BEACH SWIMMING BEACH REVIEW — CONT. Feldman noted that the buoys that are placed in the swim area are not 10' in from the lot line. He also noted that people bring their pets to the beach and let them run. Vongries noted that the problem has been eliminated, yet a swim area is still maintained. Feldman also noted the fence is currently broken and snowmobiles are crossing onto his property. Chair Flint noted a letter received by Dale Woodbeck, 1445 Cherry Place, asking the City to reinstall the dock in the swim area. The letter is attached to the minutes as Exhibit A. It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Bradley, to recommend that the Council not authorize the installation of a dock at Sandy Beach Swim Area for the 1992 summer season. Johnston felt that recommendation should reflect that the dock not be installed permanently. It was moved by Vongries, seconded by Bradley, to recommend that the Council not authorize the installation of the dock at Sandy Beach Swim Area permanently. Ayes 7, nays 0. Ilse noted she had attended meetings where the neighbors of the area described the problems and felt badly far them. She felt their responsibility is to take complaints of residents seriously and do something to improve the situation if possible. (#5) SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT — PLAN REVIEW Gerhardson noted that Cathy Skalicky of Dahlgren, Shardlow and Uban has provided another alternative, as requested by the Commission, for development with a 2 acre lot size with a trail system. Flint noted that he met with Planning Commission Chair Kelley and Jeanne Mabusth, Zoning Administrator. Kelley felt that the Planning Commission would not approve development at a 1 acre density for this property. Flint noted that Skalicky brought to the attention of the Commission the requirement of a 150 ' setback from the wetland area. The new alternative provides for 2 2—acre lots, with parking for the public just south of the pump station. He explained that the existing road that runs to the north of the property could be used as a walking path to the northern parcel , which would be retained for future use as either park land, or if access was provided to the north in the future, possibly a building site. Wilson asked given the 150' setback, where the building pad would be for the 2 buildable lots. 3 MINUTES OF 7HE PARK COMMI��ON MEET�NQ 0� ��M�� , �� SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT — PLAN REVIEW — CONT. Gerhardson noted it would be near the highest elevation on those lots. He noted that property just north of the parcel is currently not developed, but if it were to be in the �uture, the City could ask for access to be provided to the northern parcel . Vongries asked if they would be creating a land—locked piece of land by using this alternative. Chair Flint explained the concept would be to gain access through the northern property when developed. Bradley asked about the road that extends north of the pump station. Chair Flint noted they do not want the road to be developed further because of the impact on the wetlands. The concept is to retain the property to the north for either park land or development. He noted that some members felt that a park on that property may be too secluded and end up being used for the wrong purposes. Ilse asked about the appraisal that was done. Chair Flint noted that there had been two appraisals. The first valued the entire parcel at $275, 000 approximately, and did not consider wetlands and setback requirements. The more recent appraisal valued the buildable area at $150, 000. Ilse felt that the knoll area was the most valuable portion and should be retained for the park land. She asked why the City was proposing to sell the property. Wilson explained the Council proposed to sell the sewer pond property and the Crystal Bay facility site to help fund the new City facilities. She reiterated that the property should be set aside as a nature preserve . Gerhardson explained that the Council had indicated to the Commission that if the property were to be retained as park land, it would have to be paid for out of park dedication funds. Bradley asked if the pond had been restored to original state. Wilson noted that a weir had been installed to help restore the pond to its natural state. Wilson noted the traffic through the property to service the pump station, which may not be as desireable for development. Chair Flint noted that if the City facilities were to be located on the site, access would have been achieved from the west, which all felt was a waste of land for the roadway, and the better access would be from the north. 4 MINUTBS OF TH8 PARK COMMISSION M$$TING OF DSCBMBBR 3 , 1991 S8WAG8 TRBATMENT PLANT - PLAN RBVIBW - CONT. It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Chair Flint , to recommend to the City Council that 2 2-acre parcels be allowed to be developed at the southern end of the property, and reserving the northern parcel until such time access can be provided to the north. Ilse hesitated to offer to sell off part of the property as it is beautiful and would make a great park. She asked if there had been any comments from neighbors. She asked about selling the northern piece for development which would be least desireable for a park. Wilson noted that Mike Ellis was very concerned about retaining the pond, but was not totally opposed to development . Mr. Duke Hust was opposed to development . Chair Flint noted that Brad Peterson favored the land used as a park. Johnston felt that the site is not that unique and would be too expensive to retain the entire parcel as park land. He felt that the City should recoup some of its investment cost . Ilse asked what the how much money was in the Park Dedication fund. Chair Flint thought it was about $350 ,000 . Gerhardson asked to have that confirmed and did not think it was that high. Kokal asked about the trucks that use the road. Gerhardson noted that it usually is a utility truck, somewhat larger than a 1/2 ton pickup. He noted he could find out exactly what kind of service the pump station requires . He noted that the intent of the City is not to use this property for any use in the future. Wilson noted that it would make a wonderful nature preserve and felt it would be worth far more in the future than the $150 , 000 value of today. She noted the two acre development would be the best compromise if they need to sell off a portion. Vongries reminded them that the wetlands will remain as open space no matter how the property is developed. He felt that a park on this property would satisfy a small number of people, but does not satisfy the needs of the Community. Wilson felt that residents move to Orono for the rural atmosphere and the property used as park does satisfy the needs of the Community. 5 MINUTES OF TH$ PARK COMMI88ION MBSTINQ OF DBC�MBSR 3, 1991 SBWAGS TR$ATMgNT PLAN - PLAN RSVIBW - CONT. Johnston noted that because of the requirement for 2-5 acre parcels , the Comprehensive Plan infers individual lots should be used as open space and recreation. He felt that three-fourths of the Park Dedication Fund should not be spent to purchase this property. Ilse asked if there might be a partnership available that would help defray the cost of the property, or suggested they ask the Council for funding. Wilson agreed that the entire amount cannot be paid from Park Dedication Funds, and did not feel a partnership would be available as there are no endangered species in the area. Chair Flint noted he is not pro-development, but agreed with the motion on the table. He noted the knoll area is not the main issue here but rather the wetlands preservation. Ilse asked that they consider offering the northern parcel for sale, not necessarily meeting the required $150,000 . Chair Flint noted that would not be possible as they have no control over the timing of development on the northern property. Vongries felt that the entire parcel should be sold and let a developer come back with a proposal . He suggested that the northern parcel could be divided into two lots . Gerhardson explained that would mean the creation of a substandard lot , which is against the current Council ' s policy. Johnston felt that if the area is developed, the City should subdivide the property and sell the lots for profit. It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Chair Flint, to recommend to the City Council that 2 2-acre parcels be allowed to be developed at the southern end of the property, and reserving the northern parcel until such time access can be provided to the north. Ayes 6, nays 1 . Ilse voted nay. Gerhardson asked the Commission to define exactly what they would like to retain. Chair Flint noted they are proposing to sell only the two buildable lots. Ilse recommended that the northern parcel be dedicated as park without payment from the Park Dedication Fund. Gerhardson suggested they not bring that up at this time. He suggested they recommend selling the entire southern portion including the wetlands, which would add value to the buildable lots , while still retaining that area as wetland. 6 MINUTES OF THg PARK COMMISSION MSBTING OF DBCSMBBR 3, 1991 ��r�►�� $��►�� _ �� _ �� Chair Flint agreed. Ilse asked about a PRD development . Chair Flint noted that Planning Commission Chair Kelley was opposed to such a development , but a developer could certainly ask. He also noted he would like to see the park area developed next spring, which would entail a formalized parking area and cutting the grass and weeds on the northern parcel . He noted blinds around the pond would be nice. Gerhardson noted the City should realistically be totally out of the area by next fall, but the park area could be mowed prior to the fall . Bradley asked that the oak trees be examined for disease, as he thought some may be dying. (#6 ) BgD8RW00D PARK PLAYGROUND BQUIPNBNT/SKATING RINK Gerhardson explained because of the weather, the installation of water to the site has been delayed, but they were not giving up. Ilse asked if the City in the past had cleared an area on the lake for skating. Gerhardson noted that it had been done a long time ago, but because of problems was discontinued. He explained that before City vehicles could be allowed to go on the ice, he would have to check with the insurance company. Johnston asked if it would be possible to flood the rink area in cooperation with the fire department . Gerhardson noted because of the additional snow fall, City man power is limited. Johnston noted that perhaps an effort by the Lions Club and the fire department would help. Gerhardson noted he could make a phone call to check on the feasibility of that option. Bradley reiterated that they had agreed not to install a fence, but rather berm with snow for this season. He asked if it would be possible to find the time to to the berming. Gerhardson felt they would be able to do that . Chair Flint went on to explain a proposal for playground equipment was received last summer for just under $15 ,000 . He noted the Commission had requested competitive bids be sought, which has not been done yet. 7 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 3, 1991 BEDERWOOD PARK - CONT. Johnston offered another alternative. He suggested they ask several companies to supply a proposal to the City of what they could provide for a certain dollar amount for a certain age group. He felt that the City should buy the equipment and save the 6. 5� on sales tax, and then ask for bids on installation. Wilson asked what a reasonable dollar amount for equipment would be. Johnston noted that a bid for equipment only had been submitted for $10, 000. Chair Flint felt that they may be able to save money that way. Johnston explained they would have to establish �arameters , such as post type and slide type. Ilse suggested they set up a sub-committee to decide parameters. Johnston noted that the equipment companies can supply � list of installers from the area. Ilse, Johnston and Vongries volunteered for the sub-committee. Wilson suqgested they try to avoid bright colored plastic in order to better blend in with the area. Vongries disaqreed, stating that those are the colors that kids love. Chair Flint suggested they not exceed $10, 000 for equipment. Bradley asked what the estimated cost for installation would be. Gerhardson noted the last bid was $5, 000. Wilson noted that the Commission members thought the price was too much the last time. Johnston noted he was not opposed to the price, but rather the lack of competitive bids. Wilson noted that this is only one of several parks which needs to be updated. She suggested the sub-committee come up with a recommendation for purchase of equipment. Following discussion, it was agreed without a formal motion, that the sub-committee of Ilse, Johnston and Vongries be formed to proceed with purchasing the playground equipment on the basis outlined above with any expenditure of funds to be subject to Council authorization. 8 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMI88tON M�E��NA 0� ��C�� , �� (#7) MEETING SCHEDULE 1992 It was moved by Chair Flint, seconded by Wilson, to establish the meeting dates in 1992 for the Park Commission as follows: January 6, February 13, March 2, April 6, May 5, June 2, July 7, August 4, September 1 , October 6, November 2, and December 7. Ayes 7, nays 0. (#8) OBA SCHEDULE 1992 Kokal noted he had talked with Gary Larson from the Baseball Association, who was not specific about their schedule. He met with the new business manager, Neil Lawson, regarding site plans and he noted they are working with the hockey association regarding their proposal . He noted they are looking for property in the northwest corner of the school property which is located in the southeast quadrant of the intersection of County Road 6 and Old Crystal Bay Road. He talked with Peg Swanson and she indicated no decision had been made yet. Johnston explained that his firm had met with Gerhardson, Larson, and Lawson to look at all the various concept sketches for recreational purposes. He noted that his firm volunteered to develop plans for a ballfield complex. He felt that preliminary concepts should be available for the next Park Commission meeting. Chair Flint asked if this was done independent of the ice arena. Johnston noted it would be a master plan that would fit all together, and may be done in phases as needed. It may be necessary to acquire additional lands to the east. They are studying the whole area between County Road 6 and Highway 12, and Willow Drive and Old Crystal Bay Road North. Kokal asked if the land east of the school has been purchased by the school . Johnston noted that the school has choosen to purchase that land in sections, and to date they have purchased the eastern half. The area that lends itself best for an atheletic complex would be the eastern half of the property. Ilse asked if there were ways to get funding from surrounding communities that are within the Orono School District. Gerhardson noted that would be ideal, but difficult to do. Chair Flint asked that the OBA appear before the Commission in March regarding Bederwood Park. Wilson noted that they will obviously want to continue to use Bederwood Park. 9 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 3, 1991 OBA SCHEDULE 1992 - CONT. Bradley noted that he would like to have them appear in February, that way if there were any issues to resolve there would be time prior to the baseball season. He asked that a proposed playing schedule for 1992 be submitted by the OBA. Johnston asked if there would be as many issues to resolve as last year. Kokal felt there would not and the issue should be reviewed at one meeting. Vongries asked if there was any doubt that the Commission woul.� not recommend the use of Bederwood Park by the OBA again this year . Chair Flint noted that he was not going to let his opinion be known prior to the meeting at which the� appeared because if they know they are going to be approved in advance , they may not pursue alternativ� sites . Gerhardson stated that February may be too early to ask for a schedule . Vongries suggested Gerhardson ask the OBA when they would be ready to appear before the Commission. . (#9 ) CRYSTAL BAY SITE SKETCH PLAN REVIEW (#11 ) COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REVIEW Gerhardson noted that he has not received anything from Cliff Swenson yet . Chair Flint noted when he appeared before the Council regarding this issue, the Council felt it was perhaps more important to work on an amended comprehensive park plan. The Council directed Ron Moorse to develop a recommendation on a revised plan. The Council suggested that a Committee be selected made up of staff, Park Commission members and Council members to review the current comprehensive plan. Johnston directed Gerhardson to find out if the property adjacent to the Crystal Bay site is still for sale . Chair Flint noted that Moorse and Gerhardson felt that funding for the reviewed plan could be from the CDBG (Community Development Block Grant ) fund, although that would need to be approved by Council . Johnston asked what the CDBG fund is usually dedicated for. Gerhardson noted that it is mostly used for rehabilation of homes for residents . Johnston stated that they should not assume the use of the entire amount as others may have a real need for the money. 10 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMI$8I0� M�� f �� CRYSTAL BAY SITE SKETCH PLAN/COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REVIEW - CONT. Gerhardson stated he felt the Commission should ask for the entire amount, however they may not get it. He noted the entire project may be spread over two years and therefore funds could be requested from both 1992 and 1993. He stated that the funds would be available in August of 1992, but a public hearing must be conducted in March 1992 requesting the use of the funds. It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Wilson, to request the use of up to a maximum of $25, 000 of CDBG funds for 1992 for the purpose of updating the comprehensive park plan. Ayes 6, nays 0. Johnston noted that within the comprehensive plan there is a section on parks, however it is not a specific park plan. Vongries stated that the update probably will not be completed by the end of 1992, and perhaps the Commission should ask for a portion of the 1992 grant and then ask again in 1993. Johnston noted that the City of Independence instructed their consultant how much they could pay for an updated park plan, and asked them to figure out creative financing for the remainder. (#10) OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD BIKE/HIKE TRAIL PROGRESS REPORT Chair Flint explained that the City has supplied Hennepin County with the as-builts as requested. He noted he would call Don King at the County to check on the status of the project. OTHER ISSUES Gerhardson stated he spoke to Les Kelley regarding his term on the Commission which will expire on December 31 , 1991 . Kelley has decided to retire from the Commission. Gerhardson noted that both Vongries and Bradley' s terms also expire at that time and they should contact him as to whether they wish to continue on the Commission. ADJOURNMENT 9: 52 P. M. It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Wilson, to adjourn the regular meeting of the Park Commission at 9: 52 p. m. Ayes 7, nays 0. The next meeting will be Monday, January 6, 1992 at 7: 00 p.m. in the Council Chambers. .. / 7 ' �� Richard Flint, Chair Person 11