HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-05-1991 Park Commission Minutes � � T
M�Nl�fi�� �� fib� �ARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 5� 1991
ATTENDANCE 7: 15 P. M.
The Park Commission met on the above date with the following
members present: Chairperson Dick Flint, Susan Wilson, Bruce
Kokal , and Phil Bradley. Lester Kelley, Alex Vongries and
Sherokee Isles were absent. Stephen Johnston arrived at 9: 20
p. m. The following represented the City staff: John Gerhardson,
Public Works Director; and Teri Naab, City Recorder.
(#1) INTROUCTION OF CITY ADMINISTRATOR RON MOORSE
Ron Moorse, City Administrator, was unable to attend the meeting
to meet the Commission members.
(#2) APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Bradley asked that the minutes of September 4, 1991 be corrected
to indentify where the bike/hike trail runs. It was suggested
that a name be given to the trail . Flint suggested "Old Crystal
Bay Road Bike/Hike Trail " . Wilson felt that it should reference
the beginning and end of the trail . Al1 Members agreed that the
trail would be known as the "Old Crystal Bay Road Bike/Hike Trail
connecting Baker Park and the Luce Line Trail" .
It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Wilson, to approve the
minutes of the September 4, 1991 Park Commission meeting with the
correction noted above. Ayes 4, Nay 0. Johnston abstained as he
had not yet reviewed the minutes.
(#3) BEDERWOOD PARK PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT/SKATING RINK
Chair Flint asked Gerhardson if it was possible to still
construct the skating rink this year.
Gerhardson noted that it could not be constructed unless the snow
melted. He noted that the most costly part of the project is
getting the water from the well to the rink, which is about 250'
away. He noted that the pipe would have to be trenched in and a
connection made at both ends. Gerhardson explained that frost is
not a problem yet, but construction of the berm at this point
would be very difficult.
Wilson asked if the rink could be moved closer to the parking
lot.
Gerhardson noted that it is as close as possible in the proposed
location because of the topography of the land.
Wilson felt that use of the rink may be reduced because of the
lack of a warming house. Gerhardson noted that a path will be
plowed to the rink and benches will be provided.
Bradley asked if maintenance of the rink is costly.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 5, 1991
BEDERWOOD PARK — CONT.
Gerhardson noted maintenance is not a costly factor, and most of
the time involved is with the initial flooding of the rink.
Wilson asked if it would be more practical to provide for one
really nice rink opposed to several smaller rinks with no warming
hause facilities.
Gerhardson explained they have tried to provide smaller rinks to
the clusters of homes within Orono, and felt they are all used
quite abit.
Bradley asked if the Orono schools has rinks available to the
public.
Kokal noted there is only one rink at the Middle School .
Wilson felt this is another concept which favors an overall
comprehensive park plan.
Chair Flint asked if it would be possible to make the rink a
rectangular shaped with boards opposed to the berm around the
kidney shaped rink. He noted that the plan had been approved a
year ago and nothing has been done to date on it and he would
like to see the rink go in this year.
Gerhardson noted the kidney shape was proposed to discourage
playing hockey on the rink. He noted that perhaps for now the
rink could just be constructed on the flat ground.
Bradley asked if a hose could be run from the well to flood the
rink. Gerhardson noted that would be quite time consuming.
Wilson noted she is in favor of constructing a temporary rink
this season.
Gerhardson noted that a permanent rink would then be constructed
in the summer of 1992. He noted that the snow could be used to
construct the berm for now.
Bradley felt that there may be a danger of that berm melting.
Chair Flint felt that the water line should be installed now and
the City should try to construct a permanent rink, and if that is
not possible, to go ahead and construct the temporary rink.
Gerhardson asked how the Commission wished to pay for the
installation of the water line and the rink.
Chair Flint asked if operating money could be used.
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, � � MTNUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVBMBBR 5 , 1991
BEDERWOOD PARK - CONT.
Gerhardson noted that it would be considered a capital
improvement , but there is not money in the Public Works ' budget
to pay for the rink, but maintenance would be paid for with
operations money. He noted that they should request to spend
$2 ,000 to install the water line and the rest could be fit in
later.
All Commission members agreed to proceed with the installation of
the water line and either a temporary or permanent rink as
determined by staff .
Wilson noted that the Commission members had been sent brochures
on playground equipment , but felt that since Johnston was not
present at that time, they should wait for his input .
Wilson felt a letter should be sent to Whitman stating the
intentions to proceed with the rink.
Johnston arrived later and the matter was tabled to give time to
review the brochures .
( #4 ) ORONO SBWAGB TRBATMBNT PLANT PLAN RBVIBW
Cathy Skalicky of Dahlgren, Shardlow and Uban was present to give
a preliminary analysis and concepts of plans she had worked up
for this site.
Skalicky felt that the site has a couple of amenities that could
be capitalized upon, the dike and the wooded knoll. She noted
that the site area is approximately 38 acres with 9 . 2 acres
developable land.
Chair Flint urged Skalicky to compare those area figures with
what the appraiser had presented.
Skalicky noted these are only approximate figures and she had
contacted Ceil Strauss of the DNR who noted a survey has been
scheduled for the property which should be completed within the
next couple of months.
Skalicky noted the tree buffer around the property, part of which
is actually on the adjoining property. She also noted the
proximity of this property to Noerenberg Park. She felt the
existing residence on Old Crystal Bay Road would be at the
entrance to the park if developed as this concept suggests , and
therefore the residence would need to be screened. Also, she
explained the entrance to the park would need to be well marked,
as it may be difficult for those unfamiliar with the area to find
it .
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 5, 1991
ORONO SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT PLAN REVIEW — CONT.
Skalicky reviewed Concept 1 � which entails making the entire area
a park. She noted that the pond is actually a rectangular shape,
but has filled in and it no longer appears this way. She felt
the oak knoll could be the center part of the park with a picnic
area, with a connecting play area. She felt the lift station
would have to be screened. Her plan included a boardwalk through
the marsh, which could connect to the single family residence on
the east and that connects to Willow Drive. She noted that the
marsh is a part of the French Lake water system. She indicated
that the dike currently serves as a boardwalk around the entire
pond.
Chair Flint felt that the connection to the single family
residence to the east was probably not practical .
Skalicky noted that portion of the boardwalk could be
elmininated.
Skalicky reviewed Concept 2, which entails development of the
entire parcel for single family dwelling. She noted the property
is currently zoned 2 acre, residential , which she would recommend
rezoning to R—lA, 1 acre, residential . She felt the 2 acre
zoning would not allow for many homes and therefore would not be
cost effective for a developer to pursue. She noted that with
the 1 acre zoning, 8 homes could be constructed, using the 150'
setback as designated by the DNR.
Chair Flint asked about the 8% park dedication of land for public
use.
Skalicky noted that Concept 3 provides for a combination of park
land and single family development.
Skalicky reviewed Concept 3, which entails a combination of park
land and single family development. She noted that her plan once
again provides for rezoning to R-1A and would allow 5 homes to be
built. She noted that a public road would be constructed to
serve the homes and the park land and this plan would save the
oak knoll .
Wilson noted that the land is zoned 2 acre and asked why it would
not be developed that way.
Skalicky felt that 3-4 homes could only be created and it would
not be cost effective for a developer. She noted that her plan
would have to have sewered provided.
Bradley stated that the staff sketches of development of the site
provided for 4 buildable sites.
Wilson noted that those sketches included filling of the wetland.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETINQ OF NOVEM��� �� ����
ORONO SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT PLAN REVIEW — CONT.
Kokal asked the status of the lift station and Gerhardson noted
that it is active and would have to remain.
Skalicky felt that the lift station is a negative for residential
development.
Bradley noted that it is very loud at times and Gerhardson stated
that there is daily maintenance of the station.
Chair Flint noted that his concern was running the road along the
pond. He asked if the northern portion could be retained as
park land.
Skalicky noted that both she and City staff felt that it would
provide for a too secluded park and may invite undesireable
situations for the residential development to the south. She
noted that there is a road that currently runs to the northern
portion of the property. She felt that the MWCC may consider
moving the fence 10-15' to allow for more roadway between the
lift station and the pond.
Chair Flint asked if Skalicky intended to prepare a packet of
these sketches for the Commission and the Council . She noted
that she would be doning that.
Bradley asked if it would be better to wait to develop the
property until the adjoining property to the west is proposed for
development.
Skalicky noted there is a small wetlands within that property
also and would not necessarily facilitate easier development of
this property.
Gerhardson asked if a variance would have to be granted for the
roadway to the northern portion of the property. Skalicky was
unsure.
Chair Flint asked Skalicky to include the map from the U. S.
Wildlife within her packet to be submitted.
Bradley asked again if it would be best to incorporate the land
to the west for development.
Skalicky felt that the entire area is disconnected because of the
lift station and the small wetlands.
Chair Flint felt that it is unrealistic to show lots that small .
Gerhardson noted that perhaps the property could be developed as
a PRD.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 5, 1991
ORONO SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT PLAN REVIEW — CONT.
Chair Flint felt that 1 acre zoning should not be shown to the
Council as he felt it is unrealistic. Gerhardson suggested
Skalicky contact Jeanne Mabusth for direction.
Wilson concurred that they should not endorse 1 acre zoning for
this property.
Bradley asked if it was conceivable to retain the northern
portion of the property for park with the anticipation of future
development to the west which would provide for an easement to
that northern portion. He also felt that the traffic to the lift
station could then be channeled to the west rather than through
the developed southern portion of the property.
Gerhardson noted that the pipes that need to be serviced for the
lift station are contained within the current roadway and could
not be moved feasibly.
Chair Flint noted that there is a development to the north that
could provide access to the northern portion of this property.
Wilson noted that the property looks like it would make a great
park.
Bradley asked if the Council and the appraiser knew about the
roadway having to stay. Gerhardson noted they were aware of
it.
Chair Flint asked if the property were to be developed at a 2
acre minimum and the roadway was to stay, how could the property
be developed.
Skalicky noted that it could be developed into 3-4 buildable
lots.
Chair Flint noted that perhaps a temporary access could be built
to the northern portion until permanent access to the north could
be provided.
Bradley felt that perhaps the northern portion should be reserved
for park purposes in the future.
Chair Flint suggested that the Commission meeting with the
Planning Commission to get their reaction to the proposed
development.
Gerhardson suggested that a meeting with Chair Kelley and Mabusth
be arranged. He noted that he would arrange a time with Mabusth
for the meeting and notify Chair Flint, Chair Kelley, and
Skalicky to attend. Wilson noted that she would like to attend
the meeting.
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MINUTES OF TME PARK COMMI88�ON M�ETINQ OF NOV�M��R �, ����
(#5) 1992 PARKS BUDGET — PROPOSED; EQUIPMENT OUTLAY — PROPOSED
Gerhardson explained the maintenance budget.
Wilson asked if the liability insurance is prorated for park use
only. Gerhardson noted that it was.
Chair Flint asked about the proposed 1992 budget.
Gerhardson noted that it has gone to the Council for a
preliminary review.
Chair Flint noted that in the future the Commission should look
at the proposed park budget prior to Council review.
Gerhardson noted that requests should be submitted by June and
that the Commission should start to look at proposals for 1993
right now. He noted that it is too late for input to the 1992
budget.
Chair Flint asked about money for the comprehensive park plan.
Gerhardson noted that it may be too late to request money for
1992, but there may be other funds available. He noted he would
confirm the next day.
Gerhardson went on to explain on Page 30 is a list of 1991
projects to be paid for through park dedication funds. He noted
that none of these have been completed.
Chair Flint reiterated that Gerhardson was to discuss with Moorse
the possibility of funds available for a comprehensive park plan;
budget items for 1993 must be reviewed by June; and park
dedication expenditures should be included in the budget but do
not necessarily have to be included to be approved.
(#6) GOLF COURSE 1990 ACTUAL — 1992 PROPOSED
Gerhardson noted that the golf course is considered an enterprise
fund as it basically pays for itself through fees collected. He
noted that Exhibit F-10 and F-11 gives an operating cost and
profit statement.
Chair Flint asked about raising green fees.
Gerhardson noted they are raised on the recommendation of staff
and approved by Council .
Chair Flint noted that the Commission would like to try and
exercise authority over the golf course in the future.
Gerhardson noted that the Council considers the golf course as a
recreational facility for the City and not a money maker.
Wilson asked if there was a driving range available.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 5, 1991
GOLF COURSE — CONT.
Gerhardson noted there is not and that it is strictly a 9 hole
golf course with no room for expansion.
Johnston asked where retained earnings go from the golf course.
Gerhardson noted they go into the general fund. He explained
that the course was purchased with money from the general fund,
and that was to be paid back through retained earnings, however
years ago the Council forgave that loan as the course was unable
to keep up with the payment of the interest on that loan.
Johnston asked if staff projects future revenues. Gerhardson
noted that is not done.
Chair Flint noted that perhaps retained earnings from the golf
course could be used to fund the comprehensive park plan review.
Gerhardson noted that in the past the course has tried to
increase revenue and it is currently looking at income from other
seasons. He noted that this year a cross country ski trail will
be plowed through the course by the DNR.
Johnston felt that the golf course should be under the guidance
of the Park Commission and the profits should be spent on park
improvements.
Wilson asked if golf lessons have ever been provided.
Gerhardson stated that in the past they have had an instructor
from the school offer lessons. He noted that for the coming
season the course will be offering a student rate.
Johnston asked if CDBG money would be available for the
comprehensive park plan review.
Gerhardson noted that is what he was going to check on, however
funds are limited. He noted that in the past those funds have
been used for rehabilitation of private property for low income
residents. Gerhardson explained to use the funds, the Commission
would have to request the expenditure of the money from the
Council and then a public hearing would have to be held. He �
noted that if this is intended for the upcoming year, the process
should be initiated immediately.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION ME�fiINQ 0� N�V�M@€� �� ����
(#8) CRYSTAL BAY PLAYGROUND
Cliff Swenson was present. He noted that he has ideas on how to
run the public information meeting for the Crystal Bay site. He
felt that it could be structured such as the Governor ' s Design
Team which actually gets people together to solicit ideas. He
suggested that it is much like a brainstorm session, but felt
that word should be avoided when publishing the meeting. He
noted that it is important prior to the meeting to instill the
idea that community members' opinions do count and will be heard.
He noted that at the beginning of the meeting the attendants
should be informed of the surrounding features of the site and be
shown maps to make them aware of available resources. Then
public input on ideas for development would be asked for and
recorded on a board for all to see.
Chair Flint noted that at the Council ' s meeting of October 14th,
he asked the Council what they wanted as far as a public meeting
for input on development of the Crystal Bay site. He noted that
Jabbour favored an overall park plan and had thought that was
what the Commission was proposing when they suggested the
information meeting. He noted that the Council instructed Moorse
to set up a group to work on a comprehensive park plan. Moorse
asked Flint to list in a memo issues related to a comprehensive
plan that the Commission would like to see resolved.
Wilson noted that it is hard to develop a specific site without a
comprehensive plan.
Swenson felt that it would be beneficial to focus on an overall
park plan at this time.
Bradley asked if there were time constraints on development of
the Crystal Bay site.
Chair Flint noted that the Council had stated that they are not
in a rush to develop a plan for the Crystal Bay site. He felt
there were a lot of mixed views expressed by the Council on an
overall comprehensive plan.
Kokal asked if a consultant would be hired to facilitate with the
development of a comprehensive plan.
Chair Flint noted that Moorse favors development of an overall
park plan to be reviewed by a consultant. Flint asked that the
minutes of the October 14th Council meeting be sent to all
Commission members.
Gerhardson asked if the Council .should be asked about the urgency
of development of the Crystal Bay site. Flint felt that they
should meet with Moorse first.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 5, 1991
CRYSTAL BAY PLAYGROUND — CONT.
Wilson noted that Chair Flint would meet with Moorse and then
the Commission members would discuss at the next meeting on how
to proceed. She noted the last estimate from a consultant was
$30, 000 for development of a plan.
Chair Flint stated that Goetten had noted how active the
Commission was and felt that there should be a committee
established to help the Commission deal with some of these
issues. Jabbour noted that the Council would have more time in
the future to deal with these issues.
Swenson noted that he may still use the Crystal Bay site for his
thesis and he would like to present his work on the site next
spring for the Commission' s input.
Chair Flint noted that it would be helpful to have the maps of
the Crystal Bay site and surrounding areas at the next Commission
meeting.
(#9) BIKE/HIKE TRAIL — OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD — PROGRESS REPORT
Chair Flint explained that he and Gerhardson had met with the
County and they noted that they have not made allocation of funds
for 1992 but they may be short operating funds. He noted Jim
White from the County will be presenting the proposed trail to
the Board in March for approval . Gerhardson was to supply the
County with as—builts of the Old Crystal Bay Road.
Chair Flint noted that the County does not wish to run the trail
down Homestead Trail because of the difficulty in doing so, and
would rather obtain rights to run the trail through the property
just north of County Road 6, owned by Louise Otten. He suggested
Wilson discuss this option with Otten.
Wilson noted that Otten is not in favor of multi—purpose trails.
Chair Flint noted that if approved by the Board, the plan could
be started as early as 1992.
(#10) SANDY BEACH — SWIMMING BEACH DISCUSSION
Wilson asked if a letter had been sent out to property owners
yet.
Gerhardson noted it had not and he was waiting for a date to be
set at which the Commission would discuss the issue.
Chair Flint stated that the minutes of the September meeting
reflected that the issue would be discussed at the December
meeting of the Commission.
Gerhardson noted that a letter would go out right away.
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MINUTES OF THE PARK COMM�3���N M��fi�N� �� N�V�M��� �� ����
OTHER ISSUES
Bradley asked Gerhardson to contact the Orono School District to
find out their plans for construction of ball fields.
Chair Flint noted that he went along with the extended use of
Bederwood Park because of the fact that the School District was
willing to make a commitment to work to find alternative ball
fields.
Kokal noted that he would make contact with a representative of
the baseball assocation.
Johnston noted that Independence is currently looking to
construct a community athletic complex. He noted that a portion
of that City is in the Orono School District and some feel it is
a duplication of facilities. He felt that area—wide facilities
should be considered opposed to individual city facilities.
Bradley noted that as the Orono School District grows, they
cannot possibly go it alone.
ADJOURNMENT 10: 10 P. M.
The regular Park Commission meeting was adjourned at 10: 10 p. m.
The next meeting will be Tuesday, December 3, 1991 at 7: 00 p. m.
in the Council Chambers.
It was moved by Bradley to adjourn the meeting.
� � r
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Richard Flint, Chair Person
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