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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-04-1991 Park Commission Minutes M�N�fi�B OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4� 1991 ATTENDANCE 7: 06 P. M. The Park Commission met on the above date with the following members present: Chairperson Dick Flint, Stephen Johnston, Susan Wilson, Bruce Kokal , and Alexander Vongries. Lester Kelley was absent. The following represented the City staff: John Gerhardson, Acting City Administrator; and Teri Naab, City Recorder. Phil Bradley arrived at 7: 08. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Johnston noted that there was one correction to the minutes of August 6, 1991 . On Page 2, third paragraph from the bottom, "ordinary high water mark" is noted and the abbreviation should be OHW not OHM as noted. The rest of the wording is correct. It was moved by Wilson, seconded by Vongries, to approve the minutes of the August 6, 1991 Park Commission meeting. Ayes 5, nays 0. (#1) BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT Chair Flint explained that Council conceptually approved the Old Crystal Bay bike/hike trail connecting Baker Park to the Luce Line Trail and authorized the Park Commission to go ahead with the planning. There were a number of people who live along the proposed route that were in attendance who expressed their objections. Flint felt that for that reason it would be better to use the existing right—of—way and to pipe the water away from the pathway. The next step would be for the County to get together with the City. Gerhardson noted that a "mini—feasibility" study would need to be done. Chair Flint noted that he also met with the Design Committee to discuss the route of the trail along the facility property. Wilson asked if the trail would follow the roadway or go inland. Gerhardson showed a map and explained the trail would be parallel to Old Crystal Bay Road. Chair Flint explained that it was pointed out by Boarman that a trail system could run inland on the City property and wind around the wetland/wooded area. Gerhardson noted the frontage road along Highway 12 would be built in the future from Old Crystal Bay Road with a proposed bike trail along the frontage road. Wilson asked if the the proposed trail would go all the way to Willow Drive. 1 , . �INUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT — CONT. Gerhardson noted that it would. He al�o stated that the easemer,t �� not necessarily designated " bike trail" , but rather the City took 60' opposed to 50' for the frontage road. The road is platted to come out just south of Dickey Lake Drive. Bradley asked if the easement goes through Sugarwoods. Gerhardson noted that it would not go through Sugarwoods, but through property owned by Rebers just to the �outh. Chair Flint noted that the trail running east/west along the frontage is not part of the trail system proposed jointly with the County. For the time being, he and those who have looked at the plan felt that it would be more useful for the trail to run parallel with Old Crystal Bay Road rather than wind in through the City property. Boarman would include the trail in his next schematic. Flint asked what happened at the recent public hearing on the proposed facilities. Gerhar��on nated the public hearing went very well . The public in attendance just wanted to make sure that careful thought went into the process so as not to overbuild. They al�o felt that cost to the taxpayer was reasonable. Chair Flint asked when the final decision would be made. Gerhardson was uncertain at that point. Wilson asked if the trail was proposed to be built at 6' or 8' wide. Gerhardson noted that he was under the assumption that it would be 8 ' . He felt it would be neces�ary to wait for the feasibility study to make an exact determination. Chair Flint noted that in the sensitive areas, the size may vary. He also felt that the City should stay away from taking any land from owners. He noted that if future subdivision occur� in that area, there might be a chance for dedicating an easement. Gerhardson felt that unlikely as most of the land has already been �ubdivided, except perhaps for the Dickey property. He felt that the Commission should indicate the schedule of devlopment of the trail from here on out. Chair Flint noted that he would contact the County to get the feasibility study started. Gerhard�on asked about advising the adjacent residents. � � , . . MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 BIKE/HIKE TRAIL REPORT — CONT. Chair Flint felt that the study should be done first so that information could be presented to the home owners, then have a public hearing. He felt that during the actual layout of the trail , ths Commis�ion and City should be in constant contact with owners. Gerhardson felt that it would be a good idea to send a letter now notifying the adjacent owners of the possibility of the trail system. Chair Flint noted that it is advi�able to get their input in the design stage� of the trail . (#3) SEWER PLANT PftOPERTY Chair Flint asked Vongries to give a report of what happened at the Council meeting at whjch this was brought up. Uongries noted that the request for expenditures of funds to retain Shardlow to provide an over�✓iew of the property was not approved by the Council . He pointed out that the Council regards that property as an asset to the cost of the new City facility, �o if the Park Commission wiJ�QJ to designate any of that property as park, the property would have to be purcha�ed from the City with park dedication funds. Therefore, the Council denied the request to give the Commission time to look at the situation in this new light. He noted that they did approve the petition to the DNR to restore the sewer pond to a level of a minimum of 3' . He noted that the Council included the same conditions to buy to all three properties under consideration at this time for park land. Chair Flint read the motion from the minutes. Bradley noted that was why they wanted to hire Shardlow, to determine the suitability of the property for a park. He felt the Counci7 was now telling the Commission they can' t spend the money to find out if it is suitable for a park. Vongries pointed out that they only wanted to find out how the Commission felt on purchasing the property with park funds. Bradley asked if that was the original understanding when they asked the Commission to make a recommendation. Gerhardson noted that no one had considered it this way. Johnston noted that he initially �uggested a study of tt�e property as he felt that the Council would not be willing to forego the proceeds from the sale of thi� land. 3 , , �INUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 SEWER PLANT PROPERTY — CONT. Vongries asked, if the post office is to remain on the Crystal Bay �ite, what happens to the park behind it? He felt that the park is separate and �hould remain even if the current facility property is sold for development. Gerhardson noted an option of the post office to be moved to the current Council Chamber site and the post office property be included with the future of the current facility site. Wilson noted that Mayor Peterson had mention that a public meeting would be held for public input on the development of the Crystal Bay site. Chair Flint asked if that meeting was to be held by the Council or the Planning Commi�sion, and should there be a pub7ic hearing for both the Crystal Bay site and the sewer pond site. Bradley asked if the Crystal Bay site would also have to be purchased for park purpo�es. He also asked if the post office was moved, would the City purcha�e the park behind it and pay the money to the park fund for that land. Johnston felt that there would be no need for a hearing for the sewer pond property as the value is set at $275, 000 and there is less than that in the park dedication fund. He noted that they couldn' t buy it if they wanted it. Chair Flint noted that the flyer included $184, 000 from the sale of City owned properties — total . The breakdown was $150, 000 for the sewer pond and $34, 500 for the Crystal Bay site. Gerhardson noted it originally started out as the amount in the appraisal , but after discussions with the former City Administrator, it was noted that if there was interest in keeping all or part of the land for a park, the dollar amount would be less. He felt that there was no formula for how that dollar amount was arrived at. Chair Flint noted that they could buy the land for $150, 000, do the study and sell off part of the land for development. Wilson felt that the Council wants part of this land as park, but are in a situation where they need a certain number of dollars for the proposed facility. Johnston noted that after viewing the property again, he is not nearly as impressed with the property as before. He noted that the elements that the Commission is interested in saving would be saved regardless and felt that the concept sketches prepared by staff looked reasonable. Wilson noted that some of those sketches dea7t with filling the pond, which could not be done. 4 MI�JUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1�91 SEWER PLANT PROPERTY — CONT. ��cngrie� not2d that at the meeting th2 qu��tien ��a� rai��d if the pond �a� de�ignated wet'and by the D�R. The Council wa� un�ure. That i�sue shculd be resolved. He noted that the fi ? l �ng nLt�d in �he �l;etche� is very mini�al . Hs felt that thi� property would have le�� u�e as a park than the current park� in Orcno. Ne f21t that it �hould be �old �y th� City, and �f a developer come� in ��ith a propo�al , there may be a charc� to request park la�d. Ne felt that the Counc� l Would not permit ths Commi�sion to ac.t a� develope�. He also noted that there is a limited amount of money available and the current priority i� the bike/hil:e trai 1 . Vongrie� explained that a� far a� the Cry�tal Say �i*e, t!^e ori�inal est;ma�� cf the �ro�.er+y being a wa�h a� far as va 'ue once the buildings were ra�ed t�a� ob�urd a� the �mall niece �f �ro�er�y behind for �al � i� gcing fc� $�Q, 000. He felt the;� �ho� ldr' t purcha�e that ����all �12C2 cf property an� cram ir a ball field that doe�n' t meet little league �tandards and abuts the road. `Jor,g�ies :+�ert cn to the NlCCU112� Poad site ard noted tha+ the Co^;;ri�sier :�ants to retain a perti�r fcr park� ng, but note� tha� �:r�u ?d have to be purcha�ed al�e, with r,ot much money a�.�a� lu�l �. Ne f��+ that the mo�ey �hould be ��ert or play; ng field� and ball diamond� that meet �tandard� cf those u� ing them. Chair Fl ? nt felt s�rongly that the Commi�sion s"o�ld get the input of the citi�ens on ��rhat they woul� like. He a�k�� Gerha�d�on whu� can �ae p�.:� in the newspaper to reque�t citizen� ' irput and felt they should take some action that everin�. Zt wa� mcved �y Sra�l �y, �econded by Wilsen, to conduct a public hearing for public input o� land to be used for parl:� at the �e:aer pond property and the current facility �ite in Cry�tal Bay. John�ton felt that having a public hearing would only pramct2 �he �pecial intere�t grou�� t� come and noted that the average resident wouldn ' t come. Gerhardsonnoted that there wa� a to�al of 40 pre�ent for t"�e fac; lities public hearing and that i ^�olved an expenditure ef $4. 0 millien. Ne felt that the meeting shcald be con�idered a �u� lic info�matien meeting. 41il�on ex�lained that the purpose for them beirg there wa� to figure out what is right for Orono as a �vhole. She noted that the environmental , contemplative area� are equally if not more important tha� the �ecreational use area�. She felt that the sewer pond �ho�.:ld be developed a� park becau�e the Commi���on care� for the ervirorment. She noted that the bigge�t tricl: i� to �a�ance ail thi � :,rith the few dollar� available. �; � ����fi�� �� fib� ��RK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 �EwER PLANT PROPERTY — CONT. Jchn�ton felt that there �hculd be t�o �eparate meetin7� held en the�� properties. Ne exr 'aireu that the u�e fcr ths Cry�tal Ba� �ite in�.�olve� more of the general public. Wilson felt that i� true if tenni� cou�ts were put in, al ' re�ident� could use them. Chair Flint noted that it all goe� bac� to the fact that there is not a sati�factory comprehen�ive park plan. Everytime the subject ha� been broached, no one want� to spend the money on the plan. It it were to bs done, a consultant would wcrk with the Commis�ion and public in developing an overall plan. Johnston nated that h� is not c�pc�ed to public input, b::� felt if a meeting is held with the adjacent neighbo��, it would be very one—�ided. Chair Flint felt that a hearing on the bike trail would only p;oduce negative comment� also because the people ownirg the property th�o�gh which the trail crosse� are the people who will be � n attendance. Vongrie� noted that the survey ta4;en wa� a broad concept �ype �:�rve�. The ar��ers which were received came from how t"e irformation is pre�ented and how the que�tion� we�e a�l<ed. He �?�c �o��d +hat th� Counc i 1 fee 1� the prcpo�ed �c+.:te fo� +,",e trail �y�tem is appropriate. He once again noted that the Cit� is nct going tc borror� the parl: sy�tem any �roney and they should be werking with the dollar� they have and not gc beyond. He noted that the Commi��ion need� to know hc��r much th2 bike trail �rai 1 1 cost them. Chair Flir,t noted that in other citie� with developed pa�l: �ystem�, they huve received money from other sources, including bonding. He felt that thi� is not just a money issue, and is cne of public irtere�t. Once 3�4 i� extendsd we�t�rard, there wil ' �e great developmental pre��ure on this area and he felt tha� they must start to p'an for that. Bradley a�4:ed what the Commis�ion' s general commitment to the trail system i�. Chair Flint explained Hennepin County will pay $132, 000 toward the ccnstruction of the trail on Old Crystal Bay P,oad p'u� any capital improvement co�ts in Baker Park. Orono will take care of any land acquisition for trail purposes. He noted that the trail will be three mile� long in Oronc and cost approximately $40, OOO;mile. Bradley a�l:ed how much the Park Commi �sion could expect to �aY• Chair Flint noted that couldn' t be determined until the feasibility study was done. 6 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 ��WER PLANT PROPERTY — CONT. Brad Peterson of 2160 Shevlin Drive asked if the Park Comm�ssion received assets from the OrQno Golf Course. Gerhardson explained that the golf course money goes to an enterprise fund and the money goes to support the course. It is not considered part of the park system. Chair Flint asked that Gerhardson supply the Commission at the next meeting with a profit and lo�s for the ?ast three years on the golf ccurse operation. He noted that after reviewing them, the Commission may petition the Council to take upon tha operation of the golf course. Bradley withdrew his motion. Wilson felt the alternative to a public hearing i� they would have to come to a joint decision. Johnston proposed to advise the City Council that the Park Commission would like to retain a17 wetland area at the sewer pond site, reserve the berm areas, and when the remainder of the property is �old and in the process of development, 8� of the land be dedicated as park land to insure access to the public area. Vongries felt by doing this� the value of the land would have to be reduced to compensate for the taking of the pond/wetland and berm areas. Wilson noted that to pre�erve the wildljfe habitat, a road should not be allowed along the pond which would cut out development to the north. John�ton noted there is a roadway there now. Wilson stated that only the City uses it now. Gerhardson explained it is used up to several times a day. Wilson noted that the roadway would impact the viewing and comtemplative area. Johnston felt that the piles of junk currently there also de�troy that view and by allowing development, there would be nice lawns and homes enhancing the area. Brad Peterson noted that it is classified as protected waters by the DNR and a road or drive would not be allowed becau�e of the setback requirement. Gerhardson noted that a variance procedure may be available with the hardship that is the only way to get to the property. 7 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 SEWER PLANT PROPERTY — CONT. It was moved by Johnston� seconded by Bradley, to inform Council of the Park Commission' s desire to retain the pond, wetland and berm areas for public use, and to receive an additional 8� of the land for park purpose� at the time of development to insure access to the public land. Ayes 3, nays 3. Flint, Wilson and Vongries voted nay. Vongries felt that they wil7 still have to pay for the property a� it reduces the value of the land. Gerhardson explained that a value will have to be placed on the portion that they wish to retain. He noted that a person could buy the property becau�e of the rights to the pond. Bradley noted that the City has ordinances which would prohibit encroachment of the pond area. Johnston felt that they should offer $1/acre and let Council tell them if that i� enough. Wilson noted that she was opposed to the motion because the roadway is too close to the pond, and she felt that they should request the property on the north side far a contemplative type park which would preserve the wildlife. Brad Peterson noted that there is a moritorium currently which would affect development on the property. It was moved by Wilson, seconded by Chair Flint, to ask Council to designate the property on the west side of the sewer pond for public purpose as a nature preserve. Ayes �, nays 4. Vongries, Kokal , Johnston and Bradley voted nay. Wilson felt that if the City sells the land south of this area, the Oak Hill site, it would give the City the money needed for the proposed facility. Chair Flint a�ked that the motion be amended to include all property from the south end of the berm going north to the lot line. Wilson agreed to amend her motion. Johnston noted that the small piece of land that they would �e requesting is 4 acres. Gerhard�on noted that the area is zoned two acres, but because sewer is available, some of the wetland could be used for lot area credit. 8 �MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 SEWER PLANT PROPERTY — CONT. Vongries wa� opposed to ths motion because it included a valuable piece of property, which the Council will once again ask to be purchased and he felt that the property is not needed for park land. Wilson stated that they should be thinking of the opportunity to protect land as natural habitat as that opportunity may not arise again to do so. Chair Flint reminded them of the time when a bonding bill was pa�sed for Hennepin County to purchase park land which has been turned into �arver and Saker parks. He felt that they mu�t look forward to the future and they need to take this opportunity. He felt they should just offer the City Council $150, 000 for the whole site. Wilson noted that the Oak Hill site could probably be developed no matter what the future setbacks will be for the property. Bradley asked how receptive Council and the public would be for the Commission to buy the whole piece and later sell a portion for development. Cha�r Flint noted that 7and can be bought for park land and later sell a portion for development. He felt that they should go back to the Council and request to expend the $900 to retain John Shardlow for his planning services. Johnston noted that he voted against the motion because he feels that the 4 acres has a value, it would produce a 7and locked piece of land, it is filled with junk and is not valuable a� a park. Wilson agreed to amend her motion to include removal of the junk by the City and to include an access easement acro�s the private property to get to the public portion. It was moved by Bradley, seconded by Kokal , to request Council to a�thorize expenditure of $900 from the park dedication fund to retair, John Shardlow to study options for the property as park land ranging from minimal deve7opment to maximum development. Ayes 6, nays 0. Johnston noted that the �tudy will be of use to the Council also and felt that the Commission should not have to pay the entire amount. He al�o noted that he is not in favor of buying property which would already be preserved through ordinances. 9 MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 (#4) CURRENT FACILITY SITE — CRYSTAL BAY Chair Flint explaired tha+ � n the la�t minut�� cf the Ccuncil , Mayor Peterson noted that }h2y �arte� a neighborhood meeting to get input on what to do with the current facility site. Bradley noted that they should wait to let the Council tell them what to d�. It wa� moved by Johnston, seconded by :�i 'son, to inform Council that the Par� Commi�s��n will hold a neighborhood meeting to receive input from the ci�izen� for potentia? u�e� cf the cur�ent facility �ite ir, Cr3�stu? Bay. Ayes 6, nay� 0. Kokal felt that they would get more response if tre Council he ' d the meeting. Chair Flint noted that e�sentially means they shoul� el �m�rate the Park Commission. ��or,grie� noted that they can receive input from the c�ti�ens, and ma4:e a recommendation to th2 r��nci � . Ne felt that a notice shc�ld be placed in the new�paper to the City—at—large and a ma� li�g sho�?d be �ent to Crystal Bay �e�idents. Bradley n�ted that he was tempted to vote no ard return the ���ue to Ccunc� ? as he felt that they are the mov;r,g or�ani�ation for the benefit of Co�rcil . He felt Council should hold the meeting. Johnston neted that Council should be invited t� expla�n their position. B�adley felt that it would be creating expectations by the �eighbor�. Wilson noted that the Commi�s�on could explain what they are propo�ing to be developed an� explain that they do not have the �und�ng currently. Chuir Flint noted that there seems to be a split on the Co�m;s�;e� as to �hich �ite is mors valuable to the park system. He felt they �hould table both matters. Jchns�on noted that they have reviewe� �oth sites for 6 month� no� and to table would be a wa�te of time. Chair Fl � r-t intrcdu�ed Cliff Swenscn cf rOff?r, a^d Granberg who is currently going to school to get h�s BLA in land�caping. He h�� offered to writs his the�i� on development of the Crystal Bay site in the sprir,g. By agreeing to wor� with C1 ?ff, he would be do� ng �ome of }he ���k of �he Commission in developi�g the �ite. � n MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETIN� OF BE�T�M��� �� ���� CURRENT FACILITY SITE — CONT. Johnston felt that would be fine, but noted that they still had to decide if they wished to acquire the �ite for park purpo�e�. Bradley stated that they should go on with the public hea�ing to gathe� the input of the citizens. He felt that the hearing should be held at the November meeting and all agreed. �ha? r Flint �ete� that they �oul� need a �l�wup cf the property to �how the pu�> > c. Gerha�d�on roted that the architect ha� provided the Cit3� with maN�ing of the site wi �h exi�ting lardscape. Chair Flirt noted that they would also need to rev�2w the appraisal for the �ite and this should be supplied to them by the next meeting. John�ton noted that a copy of that a�praisal should be inc?uded in Cliff ' s paper as an exhibit. Cliff Swen�on noted that he would �upply the Ccmmission with maN� �f �he � � te, both w; th u�d 1:; +he�t the cu��en+ fucilitie�. (#5) BEDERWOOD PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT �"u; � Flin} reminded Gerhardson that they are ��aiting to � oo!: �� catalog� cf different ccmpanies who supply playgro�nd � �,�. ^nt. ��hnston usked if *hey cou�d agrse to wrap this i�sue �:p �ay �_., .._ �,� of 1�9� s� i t car be i r, bu i 1 t i r the s�r i ng �f �!�at year. G�air Flint noted that this item will be on the October .,,�-, .�ny����niw. ( #6) SANDY BEACH — SWIMMING BEACH DISCUSSION �"air Flin� ex�?ained that input from the area res; dents �r.;��; � c'. be requested a� th i s wa� the f i rst year that the dock ..� _ ' in place. �-��hardson noted it may be better to do it at the �aeginning ��� �;;� �ea�cn. Ne al�o noted that one resident asked if the dack �ould be re—established. Bradley felt that the respon�e �hould be go�ten now before people forget. Ne felt that a letter �hould be sent out asking +hem to respond to q�;estion� regarding the situation ard al �o invit�ng them to �hs meeting �t which it v��il ? be di�c:��sed. ��rha�d�on ncted that �t a�� 11 hayle tc be at �he De��mbe;^ meetirg. � � M�NUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1991 t : , OTHER ISSUES Chair Flint asked Gerhardson to supply the profit and loss statements on the golf course for the next meeting. Johnston noted that the park inventory was never completed or resolved. He felt that would be a good winter pro�ect for the Commission. Chair Flint asked Gerhardson to supply a copy of the 1992 park budget a� proposed so they are aware of what is allocated. ADJOURNMENT 9: 45 P. M. The regular Park Commission meeting was ad�ourned at 9: 45 p. m. The next meeting will be Tuesday, October 1 , 1991 at 7: 00 p. m. in the Council Chambers with Alex Vongries as Chairperson. �� . � Richard Flint, Chair 12