HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC minutes 4-12-99 ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999 -
(#8)#2115 Robe rickson 4 and 3 estla treet-Lot a Rearr n ement- /
Resol n No. 6
Kell m ved, an vere eco ded,t ap rove pp cation 2465,364 a d 3 2
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of arian es o Mu ici al Cod Se tion 1 .2 Subd ' i 6(B) an S ction 0 6,
S divisi 6(C)( ; d Clos' g f a Po ' of We t e Street. TE: Ayes 4,
N ys 0.
(#9)#2466 James Renckens,having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road-2 Lot
Preliminary Subdivision
James Renckens and John Winston,applicants,were present.
Renckens said he objects to the requirement that two outlots be created. He is concerned
about the availability of septic sites if the outlots are created. He said the site is rolling and
high to the north,rolling in the middle and there is a wetland in the middle. The parcel is
difficult to develop.He would like to build his home on the northern part of the property.
There is one septic site in the northeast corner that he would like to use as a primary site and
it would be eliminated by the 50' outlot. He said the ambiance of that comer is what attracted
them to the property and that would be ruined if a road is installed.He requested that.the
Council eliminate the requirement for the outlots.
Mayor Jabbour unseated himself for this item.
John Winston said his property abuts the northeastern part of the parcel. He and his neighbors
oppose the 50' outlot across the northern boundary. They are not interested in connecting
Wear Lane to Crystal Creek Road.He said the original proposal for this parcel was a
subdivision for five lots.This proposal is for two lots. He feels the low density is important
and that the outlots are not necessary. He said they are not proposing any roadway,only a
driveway corridor at the southwesterly comer of the parcel.He would like to preserve the
character of this property that blends with the neighborhoods to the east and the west.He said
there is property to the north that could possibly be developed. He does not feel that Mr.
Renckens should have to provide access to that property by creating Outlot B.
Sansevere asked staff why the outlots were made a contingency of approval.
Weinberger stated that the proposal creates a front lot and a back lot situation. The
subdivision ordinance does not allow a flag lot to be created.The back lot is required to have
150%of the zoning district requirements and the lot does meet those requirements.The
zoning code only allows access to be granted to that property through a platted outlot..The
disadvantage for the property owners in this situation is the area in the outlot does not count
for the lot area as part of lot 1, although the entire outlot would be in their ownership.The
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(#9) #2466 James Renckens, having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road- Continued
reason for platting the 50' wide outlot to the north would be for a future access point for the
lots to the north and for this property if it were to be divided since the lot area does exist.
Sansevere asked why the outlot should be across Mr. Renckens' property instead of the
property above it.
Weinberger stated that at the time the Crystal Creek subdivision was approved the outlot was
platted from one side to the other. Part of the reason the outlot exists is there were some
septic sites and some other issues with lot area and topography of the lots to the north. Lot 7
does not have access. There is a temporary driveway easement across Lot 6 from the
temporary cul-de-sac on Crystal Creek to serve Lot 7. That was written in until the time a
road is developed to gain access to Lot 7. At that time the driveway easement would be
eliminated. Future planning is why the City staff and the Planning Commission have
recommended the platting of an outlot.
Sansevere asked if the outlot requirement was brought to Mr. Renckens' attention by the
previous owner.
Renckens said he has not talked with Mrs. Stubbs. He said he was aware of the interest the
City had in the outlot, but it did not appear in his due diligence to be a serious interest
because the outlot didn't seem to serve any particular benefit. He said there is access to Lot 7
and there is a potential for Mr. Carlson to acquire property to the east to gain access to his
property. He said there is opposition to the outlot from the Rolling Meadows subdivision as
well as the Crystal Creek subdivision.
Winston explained the reduction from three lots to two lots should eliminate the need for the
outlot.
Renckens said 22,000 square feet of trees would have to be removed to put in a cul-de-sac or
roadway across the northern portion of the property.
Alan Carlson gave historical information regarding the long-range plan for the 50' outlot. The
long-range plan was to extend Crystal Creek Road to Wear Lane to form a loop and provide
access to the north. He owns 30 acres to the north that would be accessed by the outlot. He
reviewed previous City actions that refer to the 50' outlot. He wants the 50' outlot for access
to his 30 acres.
Flint asked how Mr. Renckens plans to gain access to the back of the lot.
Renckens said he has access from Watertown Road via a 30' strip that runs on the west side
of the property. He has approached the Crystal Creek developers about gaining access from
the private road, but he has not reached an agreement with them.
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7 ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(#9) #2466 James Renckens, having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road- Continued
i
Flint asked how the developers could prevent him from gaining access from the road since it
abuts hisro e
P p rty � I.
Renckens said they can prevent it because it's a private road.
Ij
Flint asked how the City would accomplish the long-range plan if it's a private road.
Renckens said the City would have to acquire the road from the Crystal Creek Development,
pay for the cost of installing the road across the northern part of his property and would have
to acquire additional land if the road were to continue to the east and pay for the cost of
constructing that additional road until it connects with a public road. Renckens said previous
applications for subdivision of this parcel had different intent for the property than he does.
His intended use of the property is to build a home on the northern part of the property so it is
secluded.
Kelley said he was involved in the Crystal Creek subdivision and there is no doubt that the
City Council and the Planning Commission always viewed that Crystal Creek Road and Wear
Lane would connect. He said another issue involved is the property to the east and north that
will someday be developed.
Sansevere also questioned how the City would connect with a private road.
Barrett said it is a private road. When the road was developed,the City took a public
easement so that if the developers refuse access,the City can open the road for the public.
Flint asked if the City could assure Mr.Renckens access to the back of his property through
Crystal Creek.
Barrett said that by declaring the public easement open,the City could grant access to the
public over that road to the northern end of the property.
Flint said that Crystal Creek is the logical access to the back of the property and he is not
convinced that Mr. Renckens should have to provide the access to the east and north.
Barrett said that with this application,the City has a strong right to the outlot.
Flint said that there are a number of people with common interests and if they could work
something out,perhaps the City wouldn't have to take the 50' outlot.
Carlson said he does not own Lots 6 and 7.
Winston said that it's true that Mr. Carlson does not own Lots 6 and 7. He said that when Mr.
Carlson was able to create Lots 6 and 7 and not have the septic sites on those two lots taken
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(0) #2466 James Renckens,having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road-Continued
away from him so he could develop the lots,he gained economic benefit from that and now
he wants additional benefit from the 50' outlot.He said that the subdivision for Crystal Creek
states that the subdivider is responsible for providing legal access to the property to the north.
Renckens said he does not want to lose the septic sites in the northeast corner of the property
that are within the 50' outlot area because he would not be able to put his home in the
northern part of the property.
Kelley said that the City's long-term vision at the time of the Crystal Creek subdivision was
to link Crystal Creek Road with Wear lane.
Sansevere asked if the expectation was to make the link across Mr. Renckens' property or go
into the property above it.
Kelley said the intention was to take it from what is the Stubbs property.
Flint said that the City has also been supportive of people that want to keep cul-de-sacs.
Kelley said that is true,but the roads are usually platted to go all the way through new
subdivisions.
Flint said the City has the legal right to put the roads in,but the City hasn't because the
homeowners on both sides prefer the cul-de-sacs.
Kelley said that is true,but the easements are there so that if the City gets pressure from the
neighbors,the roads can be made public. He said that it is good public policy to take the 50'
outlot.
Sansevere asked if Mr.Renckens was aware of the 50' outlot when he looked into acquiring
the property and if he was hoping the City would override it.
Renckens said he was aware of the issue with the 50' outlot,but he didn't think it applied in
his situation.
Winston said that when they reduced the subdivision from three lots to two lots, it would be a
reasonable basis to eliminate the 50' outlot. He distributed information regarding cul-de-sacs
in the immediate neighborhood of the property that are not connected.
Kelley reviewed the list and stated the reasons why the cul-de-sacs are not connected.
Winston said the point is that there are a number of cul-de-sacs in the area that are not
connected. He said cul-de-sacs are part of the character of the neighborhood and they are
trying to preserve that character.
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
ME4UTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(#9) #2466 James Renckens,having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road-Continued
Renckens said this parcel has a lot of appeal.He is concerned about the future development
of the area if the outlot is made into a road. He does not want to be in a busy area.
Sansevere asked about the septic alternatives if the 50.' outlot is created.
Renckens said the septic site is in the northeast comer of the site.He said the alternative is to
remove the trees in the middle of the site.The only other septic site is near the wetland. The
wetland has to be extended with a ponding area which will eliminate that septic site.
Kelley asked staff how access would be gained to Watertown Road if the property was
subdivided further.
Weinberger stated that only two residences are allowed on a shared private driveway. Access
for the northerly lot would have to be via the cul-de-sac on Crystal Creek Road.
Mike Hilbelink stated that none of the property owners in the area are in favor of the 50'
outlot except for Mr. Carlson. He said the City didn't take the outlot at the time of the Crystal
Creek Subdivision and it appears to him that the reason was to preserve septic sites and two
lots for Mr. Carlson. Mr. Hilbelink feels Mr. Carlson will benefit from the outlot and the
burden is being put on the person developing this parcel. He said if this parcel had already
been developed at the time of the Crystal Creek Subdivision,the outlot would have had to go
to the north and Mr. Carlson would have lost two lots.
Carlson stated that the road was put where City staff wanted it put. He was promised a 50'
outlot across the top of the Stubbs property and he wants it.
Flint asked about Mr. Carlson creating his own problem when he sold off Lots 6 and 7 since
that is what isolated his northern property.
Carlson said Lots 6 and 7 were part of the entire plat and there weren't any problems with
septic sites. He again stated that he put the road where the City wanted it and he does not
want to be denied access to his 30 acres.
Hilbelink said this parcel could.be sold and not subdivided.If that happened,the outlot could
not be created.
Kelley asked if Gaffron was involved in the Crystal Creek subdivision.
Gaffron said he had some involvement in the subdivision.
Kelley asked what the staffs position was from a long-term planning point of view.
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(#9) #2466 James Renckens, having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road-Continued
Gaffron said.he concurred with Kelley that the long-term view was for an outlot across the
northern part of the Stubbs property to connect with Wear Lane.
Flint asked how Carlson would gain access to his 30 acres if this 50' outlot is not available.
Gaffron said Carlson would have to provide access.The clear intent of the City back in 1991
was to continue a 50' corridor across the top the Stubbs property.
Steve Koehler, 35 Crystal Creek Road, said the Crystal Creek Homeowners Association
objects to extending Crystal Creek Road because of increased traffic.He said there are
drainage concerns as to how the water will drain into the Association's property. He favors
the flag lot concept.
Sansevere asked if 50' is the minimum that can be taken.
Gaffron said 50' is the standard for a road serving this number of homes.
Sansevere asked if today was the first Renckens heard that if the subdivision was two lots
instead of three,the City would still take the 50' outlot.
Renckens said yes,that he had heard City staff didn't like the length of Crystal Creek Road,
that they liked the fact hewasproposing to buy the property and not put in a road.He also
understood that the 30' outlot was only taken in the case of lakeshore property.
Flint asked if staff's position is that the City should have both the 50' and the 30' outlots.
Gaffron said the 30' outlot is driven by the idea that there is going to be access through or
adjacent to a front lot and a back lot is being created by having the access there. City code
does not allow the creation of a flag lot which is by definition a lot that is continuous all the
way down through that narrow corridor. The code states that a flag lot cannot be created,you
have to create a back lot with an outlot corridor.
Flint asked if the 30' outlot is necessary if access to the back lot is through Crystal Creek.
Gaffron said if the access is to the rear,the 30' outlot would not be necessary.He said that in
every subdivision where there is potential to connect to adjacent properties,the City would .
have them continue the road through their property to the next one.
Kelley said that if the applicant has access from Crystal Creek,he can eliminate the 30'
outlot,move the lot line further south and make Lot 1 bigger so it could be subdivided in the
future.
Renckens said he could not subdivide Lot 1 to meet the subdivision code.
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
mM4UTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(#9) #2466 James Renckens, having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road-Continued
Kelley said Renckens would not be subject to the back lot requirements if the City allows
him access off Crystal Creek Road.
Renckens said he would not want to have his house in the northern part of the property and.
have a driveway come through that accesses the center part of the property.
Kelley suggested the applicant be allowed access from Crystal Creek Road so the outlot on
Lot 2 would not be required.
Kelley asked for the Council's opinion on the 50' outlot.
Sansevere said he is in favor of Mr. Renckens' proposal.
Flint said he is inclined to approve the Planning Commission's recommendation for the 50'
outlot.
Kelley said he concurs with Flint. He asked eves the SOthe anou lot across the northern part of
t still wants the access to Lot I to
be from Watertown Road if the Council app
the property.
Winston said he believes they have to have the access to Watertown Road because they can't.
foist themselves on the Crystal Creek Homeowners Association.
Kelley said the City Attorney could give an opinion to the Association as to what he believes
the City's position would be.
Winston said he does not believe the City wants to make Crystal Creek Road a public street.
Barrett said the City may not want to,but it is an option that would be available.
Renckens said he can't build a home on Lot 1 if the 50' outlot is created.
Winston asked about the number of votes necessary for action on this item.
Barrett said it requires a majority vote.
Kelley asked for the Council members' opinion on the 30' outlot.
Sansevere said he can approve the 30' outlot.
Flint said he would be willing to grant variance to the requirement for the 30' outlot.
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ORONO CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES FOR APRIL 12, 1999
(0) #2466 James Renckens, having an interest in 3020 Watertown Road-Continued
Flint asked for Barrett's opinion on amending the outlot requirements and grant a variance
for a flag lot.
Barrett said the Council can amend the resolution,create a flag lot and grant a variance.He
said the variance would require two votes out of three.
Flint moved,Kelley seconded,a motion to approve Application#2466,3020 Watertown
Road,without the 30' outlot on the southwest corner and granting a variance to allow
access to Lot 1 without the 30' outlot.VOTE: Ayes 2,Nays 1. Sansevere opposed.
Jabbour abstained.
(#1 467 and elopment g an in rest in 1 ro Road South-6
Lo minary Su ivisiyoesolutions 4267 nd
teve Bohl, ap is ,was present. "
Weinbe presen aff re rt. He said the applic s proposing to divide the
prope loca a 25S uth own Road into six residential lots.F' of the lots would be
served b cu a-sac and o of would be o��fo Brown" oad. The applicant is
req ing eliminary pla ppr ,yala2craConditionalU Permit to allow grading within
e fie f a lot line for drive for Lot 1 The nei ors have agreed to the shared
dri ay for Lot 1. W b er said this is a 45-ac site located in ttheAwT- cre ru
sidential zoning d' . ApproximateLo)
50% the site is d. One back would be
created with acce an outlot.Lots 2 6 wou a access throw arriage Lane.
A NURP pond be constructed less 20' of line. Staff doe of object to the
since the ad' ent properties are serve 'th t sewer. Suitable is sites have been
found on six lots. The City Engi er revwed the gradin drainage plans and they
are accep e. Staff recommen a Ci place drama c`� `ervation a ents
over the nd and the wetlands. a said th applicant has ee to the ease ts.
a
Steve ohl said as s mitted an app cation t e 1Vlinneha'ha C Watershed District
for eir revie . He as d if he would b abl include the 00' tax-forfeited parcel
n0-So Brown oad. He has a buyer at parcel.
bb asked if a vacation earing woul a necessary.
-
arrett said the azcel would have to begive back toepin County,o ed to o eek ""
public entitie d then Mr.Bohl could Pur ase the property.
Kelley sai e 'uld be infavor of the a plic obtaining the tax-fo ited 13foperty.
Scott W' ton stated he is the possibl yer of the tax-forfeited p p .He aske about the
proces obtaining the tax-forfeited parcel.
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