HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-15-1997 Planning Commission Minutesr
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
ROLL
The Orono Planning Commission met on the above date with the following members present: Chair
Dale Lindquist, Charles Schroeder, Sandra Smith, Janice Berg, Elizabeth Hawn, William Stoddard,
and Lili McMillan. The following represented the City Staff: Senior Planning Coordinator Michael
Gaffron, Public Services Director Greg Gappa, City Planner Elizabeth Van Zomeren, Planning Intern
Brad Bressler, and Recorder Sherry Frost. Mayor Jabbour and Council Members Goetten and Flint
were present. Chair Lindquist called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m.
SCHEDULED PUBLIC HEARINGS/PUBLIC INFORMATION REVIEWS
( #1) #2286 STEVE WHITE, 4355 BAYSIDE ROAD, CLASS I METES AND BOUNDS
SUBDIVISION - PUBLIC HEARING 7:02 -7:13 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
• Gaffron reported that the application is for a Class I subdivision of 55 acres. The northern portion
is in the RR -IA, 5 acre, Zoning District. The southern portion is in the RRIB, 2 acre, and LR -IA,
2 acre lakeshore, Zoning Districts. This existing single tax parcel has property located on both sides
of Bayside Road and is proposed to be subdivided into two lots, each including area on both side of
the road. Lot A would have 18.8 acres of dry buildable. Lot B, which is 29.1 acres, contains the
existing house, and will have 23.5 acres of dry buildable. Gaffron indicated that the attorneys for
the city and applicant have agreed that the subdivision is a Class 1, metes and bounds division, and
therefore, the property is not required to be platted and is not subject to park dedication.
Gaffron recommended the property line be moved easterly for Lot A as the portion north of Bayside
Road as proposed is less than 5 acres. There is a small wetland located to the east, north of Bayside
Road, which will require a Conservation and Flowage easement, as well as wetlands on the south
side abutting Lake Minnetonka via the channel. A concern was voiced that depending on where the
929.4 lake elevation is located, the property could be considered a lakeshore lot. If so, parcels A and
B would not meet a 500' width measured at the shoreline and at the 75' setback. Due to this, the
Staff and City Attorney have concluded that this split is not exempt from subdivision regulations but
must be at least considered a Class I Subdivision. The 2 acre minimum is met by the portion of
Parcels A and B south of Bayside, and Gaffron noted that the property could be further subdivided
in the future.
•
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #1 - #2286 Steve White - Continued)
Gaffron requested the applicant show the 929.4 contour on the survey. Parcel A includes a barn and
out buildings that will have to be removed. Gaffron recommended the removals occur within six
months of the subdivision approval. Septic system testing has taken place. The existing house
meets all setback requirements.
Gaffron reviewed the issues for discussion as noted in the packet.
The applicant had no further comments to add at this time.
Lindquist asked White if he was willing to move the lot line to accommodate parcel A having at least
5 acres of dry buildable. White said he would as it was his intent to have equal sized parcels. He
informed Smith that this was the primary reason for how the property was being split.
There were no public comments.
White informed Lindquist that he understood and accepted the Staff recommendations 1 -8 as noted
• in the packet.
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Smith was told that it was White's intention to construct a home on the second parcel with no further
subdivision.
McMillan questioned the amount of roadway. Gaffron said Staff is recommending 66' instead of
80' as needed according to the Comprehensive Plan as no County trail is planned. He noted the
County's standards are different than those in Orono's Comprehensive Plan.
Schroeder moved, Smith seconded, to approve Application #2286 with Recommendations #1 -8 as
listed on pages 3 and 4 of the Staff memo. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
(Agenda item #2 follows Action Item #5.)
( #5) #2279 AND #2280 MARC AND TRACY WHITEHEAD, 1220 LYMAN AVENUE,
SUBDIVISION - CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING 7:13 -8:00 P.M.
The Applicant was represented by Attorney, John Winston, and Surveyor, Walter Gregory. Mr.
Whitehead arrived during the application discussion.
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• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #5 - #2279 and #2280 Marc and Tracy Whitehead - Continued)
Gaffron reported that the application had been tabled at the August 18 meeting for revision from 4
lots to 3 lots. A revised proposal has been submitted. Lyman Avenue is partially maintained by the
City with the easterly gravel driveway portion privately maintained. The 2 /3rds cul -de -sac has not
been constructed. The three lots include an existing house on one of the lots.
Gaffron reported that the plan reviewed in August was problematic as Lot 4 had only one septic site.
The Planning Commission had then recommended a 3 -lot subdivision with a cul -de -sac to the
driveway outlot with Lot 1 as the driveway outlot.
The new plan includes a cul -de -sac located near the neighboring lot line, which would have a
negative impact on that property. Staff suggested an outlot for buffering as well as a second outlot
for the driveway to serve Lot 1. The private driveway outlot makes Lot 1 a "back lot ", which must
be able to meet the 150% area and setback requirements. The front lot line of the back lot requires
a 75' setback. There is 50' currently proposed for that setback, which will require a variance.
Gaffron said it was important to note that the 150% requirement has to do with the impacts to the
front lot, and he recommends approval of that variance.
• Gaffron indicated the p acket includes information for discussion on how the lot meets the standards.
Buffering for Outlot A needs to be determined. Gaffron said he is not recommending combining the
two outlots because keeping them separate will help limit encroachments of the buffer. A design
for the driveway for Outlot B is necessary. Due to the slope east of Outlot B, a retaining wall will
be required. Screening of the southeast corner of Lot 1 will aid in restricting headlight glare from
the roadway.
Gaffron noted the Planning Commission had requested screening and a tree inventory for the Lot
3 driveway corridor. A list of plant varieties is included for Lot A for review. Driveway relocation
within the boundary of Lot 1 would result in impacting trees. Gaffron asked the Commission to
consider whether this should or should not occur. The easement would otherwise continue to be
used.
Gaffron reviewed the lot dimensions and area. The 200' lot width requirement would be met by Lots
1 and 2. There would be only a 180' width at the front setback line on Lot 3, requiring a variance
but still better than prior plans. Septic site locations have been established and have been approved
by Steve Weckman. Gaffron noted the applicant had suggested that with only two homes, no
ponding was necessary since no cul -de -sac would be built. Gaffron indicated this would have to be
reviewed by the City Engineer and MCWD, who will make the final determination, before final
approval of the subdivision.
•
3
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #5 - 42279 and 42280 Marc and Tracy Whitehead - Continued)
Gaffron said the lane to the north of Lot 1 is a dedicated public right -of -way but has never been
opened. The DNR is not in need of this right -of -way, and Gaffron recommended vacating the right -
of -way for inclusion to the property.
Access to the neighborhood is another issue for the Planning Commission to consider according to
Gaffron. The City Engineer has suggested Lyman Avenue, which is only 15 -20' wide at most should
be upgraded by the developer. Gaffron said the applicant proposes to dedicate public right -of -way
for the road but has asked Commission to consider whether the cul -de -sac is needed. The City
Engineer has suggested the applicant be responsible for the upgrade including costs. The applicant
had indicated the road likely would be torn up when sewer was installed. Gaffron indicated the
adjacent area is one of the ten hot spots but not scheduled for sewering at this time. The property
itself is not part of the delineated sewer area and is not within the MUSA.
Gaffron asked whether the two additional lots served by the driveway should trigger the upgrade of
the road and what the upgrades should include. He noted items A -H in the packet were for Planning
Am Commission discussion.
•
Mr. Winston said the proposal is to add two new lots for two new homes. The lots would be large
at 3.8 acres and 3 acres plus the existing homestead. He felt the additional traffic on Lyman would
be minimal and should be the concern of the City, not the applicant. Winston does not believe the
Whitehead's should be obligated to solve the road needs for the neighborhood.
Brian Palmer, 1190 Lyman Avenue, said he was not aware of the number of variances required on
the current plan. He questioned how many variances the Planning Commission would grant for the
new subdivision and whether or not they should be granted. Lindquist informed him that the lots
are plotted as buildable and will require some variances. Lindquist said he thought the number of
variances was minimal.
Brano Stankovsky, 1290 Lyman Avenue, said he has met with the Whiteheads and discussed the
purchase of Outlot A. Plans are not known for the retaining wall or driveway as yet, and he asked
if they were required. Gaffron indicated that they were. Stankovsky inquired about screening.
Gaffron said it needs to be discussed.
4
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #5 - #2279 and #2280 Marc and Tracy Whitehead - Continued)
Stankovsky noted the driveway enters Lyman Avenue and would increase the traffic to Smith
Avenue. He asked when it would be decided whether it would need widening. He is concerned that
guidance be given by the Commission for when the roadway needs to be widened as the property
will most likely be in the ownership of others at that future time. Smith questioned whether the
money for the future upgrade could be escrowed. Gaffron said this method has not been used in
similar situations in the past. He questioned what would be a good trigger for when the upgrade is
required.
Schroeder indicated that the application has been reviewed on several occasions by the Commission
and the applicant has complied with the requests made by the Commission. He noted the number
of lots was reduced to three. He asked if the width variance for Lot 3 was a function of the lot
geography. Gaffron said it was, and was also related to the septic site. He indicated the intent of
the back lot requirements needs to be reviewed. An administrative variance to the septic setback for
the wetlands is being granted as this is not a zoning code matter.
Schroeder said his view is that the applicant should be responsible for a partial amount of the
• upgrade. Smith agreed. Lindquist also indicated there is some responsibility on the part of the
applicant.
Stoddard asked that Staff review the maintenance needs of the road prior to application going before
the Council.
Hawn said she would like the driveway to be relocated onto the property within Lot 1 instead of to
the east by use of an easement. Winston reported on the number of trees impacted. He did not feel
this suggestion was good for the neighborhood. Gregory noted the driveway easement is shown on
the plat.
Lindquist asked Hawn her reasoning behind the suggestion. Hawn said she felt it would be easier
to deal with the driveway on the property instead of through an easement when the road is
straightened out. She is concerned with the curve of the road.
Gaffron concurred that the road does not meet design standards but noted the close proximity to the
septic site for Lot 2.
Lindquist said he was satisfied with the use of a driveway easement.
5
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #5 - #2279 and #2280 Marc and Tracy Whitehead - Continued)
Smith questioned how future property owners could be advised of the potential if sewering were to
occur.
McMillan said she would prefer a decision be made at this time. She indicated the neighbors are not
in favor of a change in road alignment due to the loss of trees that would occur. McMillan said she
is concerned with the number of accidents at that location noting the lack of sight line.
Gaffron suggested an option of dedicating the portion of road to meet the curve radius standard and
granting an easement to the property owner to have the septic system placed over it. McMillan said
if Lyman Avenue was upgraded, it would occur where the public road is located now and become
a nuisance on the private roadway. She asked that a decision be made now.
Schroeder suggested the septic site could be eliminated in the future with the straightening of the
road once sewer is available. Gaffron acknowledged that the option he suggested would allow for
use of the primary site and straightening of the road. Hawn and Lindquist felt the suggestion was
satisfactory. Hawn indicated the problem was the road correction would not occur until sewering
• was accomplished. Gaffron said the property to the south is in the MUSA but he cannot predict
when sewer will be extended to this property.
•
McMillan said she would like to see the one segment of the road improved. Lindquist said it would
not be accomplished until the property owners agree to make the improvement as it is a private road.
To straighten the road out at this time would eliminate the septic site, which cannot be done, unless
the septic site is not necessary in the future. Schroeder also noted that the property value would not
be affected as the septic system site would take precedence over it.
Winston said he was concerned with the speed of traffic if the road was moved too far over into Lot
2. Schroeder indicated the upgrade cannot be imposed on this developer as there are no new homes
being served by this segment of road. He asked if the reasoning was due to safety. Gaffron said it
would be but noted it would also most likely increase the speed of traffic.
Mr. Whitehead arrived at this time. He was updated as to the discussions and suggestions thus far.
Whitehead said he was not in agreement with straightening out the road for the future.
Gregory asked if the option could be conditioned on providing sewer to the property. Schroeder
informed him that is what is being envisioned but sewer would require a change to the MUSA
boundaries.
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0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #5 - #2279 and #2280 Marc and Tracy Whitehead - Continued)
McMillan said her concern was only for improving the sight line itself. Gregory suggested providing
the City with an easement that would enable the City to cut down the necessary trees to improve the
sight line. McMillan suggested the City Engineer review it.
Whitehead suggested brining the roadway out and sweeping it. Gaffron indicated the area was too
steep for that scenario.
Schroeder moved, Smith seconded, to approve Applications #2279/2280 for a 3 -lot subdivision as
outlined including recommendations A, B, C, D, E, and F. Recommendation D will require
screening acceptable to the City. Tree cutting, driveway and drainage encroachments will not occur
unless neighbors make that determination. Any improvements to Lyman Avenue should be subject
to further study by Mr. Whitehead and Staff. Based on past precedent, the cost would be incurred
by Mr. Whitehead and the other property owners on a pro -rated base. Whitehead is to work with the
City regarding the curve of the road. Trees can be cut down and the shoulder graded to where the
septic site encroachment is located to improve the sight lines but not impact the septic site. The road
can be widened once the septic system is no longer necessary. The financial responsibility of such
• improvements is that of the property owners. MCWD and City will review the ponding.
•
Winston questioned the financial bearing by the Whiteheads on an improvement used by others.
McMillan asked that the motion include the mapping out of the driveways prior to final Council
action. Gaffron noted where this should be completed. Gregory said he has a sketch of what is
being envisioned. He indicated the driveway will be decided by where the house is located.
Winston said he feels the outlot will provide what the City is looking for. Schroeder asked that Staff
make that decision. Smith suggested the driveway be from the outlot. Berg agreed. Schroeder and
Smith indicated one curb cut only. Lindquist clarified that both driveways will come off of the
outlot and not Lyman Avenue.
Hawn withdrew her request that the driveway easement be eliminated.
McMillan asked that the motion include the City Engineer review of the curve of the roadway and
make a recommendation.
Motion was amended as noted. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
7
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
(Agenda item #6 follows item #4)
( #2) #2293 LGA INVESTMENT GROUP, JIM WATERS, 1003 WILDHURST TRAIL -
PUBLIC HEARING 8:00 -8:49 P.M.
A. CLASS 111 12 LOT PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
B. REZONING
C. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT
D. STREET VACATION
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Gaffron reported that the application is for subdivision of a number of individual parcels located at
the end of Wildhurst Trail and consisting of the 10 acre Morgart property, the Sollner property, the
Van Sloun property, and the eastern Morgart property, which has an existing house and accessory
building. The sketch plan was reviewed by both the Planning Commission and Council.
• The proposal includes a request for rezoning. The Van Sloun and 10 -acre Morgart properties ar
are
located in the RR-113 Zoning District, which is outside the MUSA boundary. The Sollner and
eastern Morgart properties are within the MUSA boundary and in the 1 acre LR -1B Zoning District.
Applicant requests that the 10 acre parcel be rezoned from 2 -acre zoning to 1 acre zoning. This
would also require an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan and a revision of the MUSA line. The
applicant is requesting a vacation of the platted right -of -way in the eastern Morgart property, which
has not been opened for public travel. This would involve replatting for building sites. The 14 lot
plat consists of 26.4 acres. The proposed right -of -way for vacation is 2.05 acres. Gaffron reviewed
the proposed layout.
Gaffron noted the requests for subdivision, comprehensive plan amendment and zoning amendment,
while intertwined, should be reviewed separately. Gaffron asked the Planning Commission to come
to a conclusion first regarding the comprehensive plan and zoning amendments without looking at
the specific plan itself.
The 10 acre Morgart property, which probably could be developed to a limited extend under the 2-
acre standards, consists of steep slopes. The rezoning to an urban density would allow for sewering
and for efficient development of the property. It would also limit the length of Wildhurst Trail. The
proposal limits the cul -de -sac extension as well.
•
8
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #2 - #2293 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
During the sketch plan review, the Council suggested the rezoning be considered in the context of
yielding no more lots than there would be under present zoning. The applicant would need to show
how the development would occur in the current zoning without sewer. Gaffron indicated this would
be difficult to do. Gaffron said he has concluded that the Van Sloun property under the current
zoning would be limited to two lots. The Sollner property, in the MUSA, could be sewered and
would be limited to six lots, but more likely five lots due to the topography. The Morgart 10 -acre
parcel would be limited to five lots but realistically, it would result in no more than three lots with
septic. The east Morgart parcel, which is 4.7 acres, is likely to be divided into three lots. This
results in the current zoning allowing for a maximum of 17 lots without rezoning, but realistically,
no more than 13 lots would be feasible.
Gaffron said the intent for Outlot A and B, the Van Sloun property to the west, if dedicated as open
space, might result in justification for transferring the density to allow 13 lots.
Gaffron indicated that the applicant's request for Comprehensive Plan amendment for MUSA
boundary change and sewering to include the Morgart property, would be required for rezoning.
• Gaffron said the property is only marginally developable without sewer. He indicated that this
proposal conflicts with the goals of the Comprehensive Plan and read the stipulations in the Comp
Plan as indicated on pages 3 and 4 of the Staff memo.
is
Gaffron reported that the Council reinforced the opinion that the City should follow the
Comprehensive Plan.
Gaffron offered two optional methods for granting the proposed amendments. They include (A)
changing the policy to allow such a change, or (B) determine that the applicant's proposal has so
many compelling characteristics that expansion of the urban area for this development will be a
positive move, enhancing those characteristics the City is intent on preserving by its current policy.
Gaffron said Staff recommends that Alternative A is a more appropriate method than B as it
establishes parameters for change. Alternate B would be a quicker method; however, it may set a
precedent of reacting to developer requests for change on an individual basis.
Gaffron said it is rare for Orono to accommodate development through MUSA and Comp Plan
amendments. Sugar Woods was cited as an example where this did occur. However, Gaffron
indicated that that development had a unique set of circumstances.
E
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #2 - #2293 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
Gaffron informed the Planning Commission that they and the Council must first conclude that the
Comprehensive Plan and MUSA boundary amendment is appropriate, along with rezoning in order
for the developer to proceed with this subdivision. Gaffron asked whether the Planning Commission
wanted to discuss the issue of rezoning at this time.
Lindquist asked Waters to comment.
Waters reported there are compelling reasons and characteristics for the MUSA and rezoning
request. He said he has tried to avoid the use of the platted access from the south, Garden Lane, to
eliminate impact on the park and the upper area of the site with its significant slopes and trees. He
suggested the MUSA boundaries would not be expanded but zoning would be traded. The Sollner
property would go from within the MUSA to outside the MUSA and the Morgart property from
outside to within.
Waters indicated that the number of lots developed from the property would correspond if he used
Garden Lane for access. He indicated that the proposal is a more sensible development plan
• allowing for clustering of homes, which Waters feels is more appropriate for the neighboring. He
felt the reasons for rezoning were no less compelling than that of Sugar Woods, only different.
u
The public were asked to comment.
Steve Bell, a resident of West Branch Road, noted the significant changes that would occur to the
environment. He asked what testing and assessment has been done, and if any, whether it has been
shared with the Planning Commission. Waters informed him that a wetland delineation has been
done as well as perc tests for the two sites on the west side. Lindquist said an EIS has not been done
and would not be done. Berg reported that a development for 20 -25 lots would require a Phase I
EAW.
Charles Boehm, Wildhurst Trail, said he resents the increases in property taxes. He felt the way the
MUSA boundary is delineated within these properties is ridiculous. Boehm said he is opposed to
over building and asked that common sense prevail.
Helen Overboe, Forest Road, reported that the property is very heavily wooded and steep. She felt
the development would lead to further erosion in the area.
10
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #2 - 42293 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
Mike Schulte, 4640 West Branch Road, said the proposal is in conflict with the City's
Comprehensive Plan. He felt the runoff would enter the lake from the steep topography, and the
urban development would be that of a rural area.
Lindquist asked the Planning Commission whether they would like to review the Comprehensive
Plan.
Hawn acknowledged that the property is surrounded by the MUSA and the proposal would not
increase the number of allowed residences, but she would like to see it accomplished in a different
fashion, by allowing for fewer roads. She felt more roads would increase drainage problems and
result in tree removal. If a development was encouraged to have fewer roads and sewer instead of
septic, it would be preferred by Hawn. Hawn said it was not a question of no development but rather
this development. She felt the Commission needs to determine whether this is the best development
for the property.
Hawn commented regarding changing the Comprehensive Plan or looking at proposals case by case.
• She agreed that there is a need to change the Comprehensive Plan, but questioned whether it could
be done in a timely manner for this application.
is
Schroeder inquired how many buildable lots can be developed as the property is currently zoned.
Gaffron said it was 13 lots with no change in zoning, and the application proposed 14 lots. Stoddard
noted that the zoning would allow for 17 lots but due to the septic site conditions and roads, it would
be 13 lots. McMillan elaborated that the 13 sites would include 5 in the 2 -acre zoning and 8 in the
1 -acre zoning. The plan is for 12 lots in the 1 -acre zoning and 2 lots in the 2 -acre zoning.
Stoddard inquired how the MUSA boundary has historically been changed. Gaffron said it normally
has changed to accommodate provisions of sewering existing higher density neighborhoods. It has
rarely been changed for new development, only in areas around Highway 12 and the Sugar Woods
Development.
Schroeder noted a better plan would be possible if the zoning was changed, but asked what could
occur with no change. Gaffron said more roads would be required with the same number of
residences. Schroeder said more trees would have to be eliminated for the septic sites. He
acknowledged the difficulty in amending the Comprehensive Plan.
11
. ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #2 - #2293 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
Gary Welch, 1214 Wildhurst Trail, said he was on the City Council when the sewering was
established. He said the Council at that time was not comfortable with extending the MUSA line.
He feels it would be a problem to make that change now. Welch was of the opinion that there may
not be enough land for 13 lots. He voiced concern with runoff and the poor soils that exist.
Bob Wolff, 4450 Forest Lake Landing, noted that the road was narrow and the subdivision
development would double the use. He suggested another access be determined instead of by
Wildhurst Trail with the condition of the road presently and the use of heavy equipment during
construction. He cited an example.
Jim Waters said 13 or 14 homes are not excessive for the property and would not significantly
impact traffic. Many members of the public voiced disagreement with Waters. He noted Garden
Lane could be used for access or Wildhurst Trail could be extended to the west. Homes would then
be unclustered. Waters said more homes would be necessary to justify building the road. He feels
it makes sense to cluster homes in order to minimize the impact and provide buffering.
• Waters confirmed that he would have to review the options if the Comprehensive Plan was not
amended.
McMillan asked Gaffron whether the park land within the MUSA and being undeveloped would
change the character of the neighborhood. Gaffron said the park parcels adjacent to Garden Lane
have restrictions placed on their use. The tax forfeit park parcel could include some development.
He cited other areas within the MUSA, namely, Noerenberg Park, noting the City is not suggesting
MUSA boundary changes. McMillan notes that this would tend to landlock the parcels within the
MUSA boundary. Gaffron said it would have a negative impact on the potential for the Sollner
property being an island of 1 acre lots.
Bob Berklund, a resident of Wildhurst Trail, noted the drainage flow problems and recommended
an environmental impact study be conducted of the area. Waters said an engineer is preparing plans
and specifications for drainage, grading, and erosion control to allow for ponding away from the
area. He feels the plan will not change the present situation and may even improve it. Berklund said
he thought it would add more drainage problems to the area.
Lindquist polled the Planning Commission regarding amending the Comprehensive Plan.
12
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #2 - #2293 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
Stoddard while noting what building is allowed making sense to minimize the number of lots, he
does not see enough to substantiate changing the Comprehensive Plan or MUSA boundary.
Hawn agreed with Stoddard. She indicating changing the MUSA boundary is against the purposes
of the Comprehensive Plan.
Smith agreed. She noted, however, that if the property is developed, drainage and runoff will have
to be reviewed.
McMillan also agreed.
Berg indicated if the property was developed within the guidelines of the Comprehensive Plan, 13
lots could be considered but may not be prudent. She suggested the design be such as to not impact
the area.
Schroeder agreed.
• Schroeder moved, Smith seconded, to deny the Comprehensive Plan revision/MUSA expansion
aspect of Application #2293 based on the fact it does not meet the guidelines laid out in the
Comprehensive Plan.
Gaffron indicated there were two phases of the application. By making the above motion, another
proposal may be submitted. Smith questioned whether it would be best to table the application.
Gaffron disagreed unless there is a plan that would convince the Planning Commission that the
Comprehensive Plan should be amended. Schroeder noted the problem with setting a precedent.
Gaffron suggested taking action on the motion and tabling the subdivision portion of the request.
Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
Lindquist moved, Smith seconded, to deny rezoning the property. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
Lindquist moved, McMillan seconded, to table Application #2294 for street vacation and
subdivision. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
Lindquist noted there will be a request for an EIS in the future. Waters said an engineering study
would be conducted and not an EIS for drainage. Berg suggested Waters speak with the neighbors.
13
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( 0) #2294 LGA INVESTMENT GROUP, JIM WATERS, 1181 WILDHURST TRAIL -
PUBLIC HEARING 8:50 -9:32 P.M.
A. CLASS III 7 LOT PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
B. STREET VACATION
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Gaffron reported that the application is for a 7 -lot subdivision southeast of the park land area. It
includes the Soskin and Sollner properties. The City park is located to the north. The property abuts
Wildhurst Trail on the east and Garden Lane on the west. The property is in the LR -1B Zoning
District, which is sewered, within the MUSA boundary, and requires 1 acre minimum lots with 140'
width. The application was previously reviewed as a sketch plan.
The access to the development will be on a road from Tonkaview Lane with a cul -de -sac at the north
end and a second cul -de -sac to the east. The Planning Commission had previously shown support
• for that access. Changes for consideration include access to the park from Garden Lane, a temporary
cul -de -sac, and protection of the ravine. The current proposal is for a total of seven lots.
C�
The current plan calls for a vacation of a portion of Garden Lane and rededication of a public
roadway to the east allowing the western lot ( Sollner lot) to be split into two parcels. The public
road with cul -de -sac to the east will provide access for three or four lots. Utilities present no
problem. The Hennessy property to the north will require access, and Staff suggested one way to
accommodate this is via a private driveway in the dedicated right -of -way. The Garden Lane right -of-
way was dedicated in 1921. It was an open field up until the 1950's but is currently wooded.
The seven proposed lots average one -plus acres. Gaffron said it appears that they will meet the 140'
width requirement. Lots 1 and 4 of Block 2 will require drainage easements in excess of the
perimeter easement over the ravine and to the north. The one acre requirement needs to be met in
addition to the drainage easement.
Gaffron said the applicant has defined the orientation of the homes and lot types. Lots 3 and 4 of
Block 2 are on a cul -de -sac with walkouts to the east. Lots 1 and 5 of Block 2 will have walkouts
to the side and rear. Lots 2, Block 1, and Block 2, will have look -out lots on flat terrain. Lot 1,
Block 1, will be a walkout but require building up of the grade to create the walkout.
14
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #3 - #2294 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
The drainage is to the northeast and southeast through two ravines with culverts under Wildhurst
Trail and eventually to Forest Lake. The drainage to the south ravine is suggested changed to enable
drainage to flow to the north ravine. Applicant's plan uses the first 200' of the north ravine for a
drainage pond. This may be sound from an engineering standpoint but will impact the natural
characteristics of the ravine. This proposal was submitted after the original application submission
showing a pond in the northwest of the Sollner lot. It was changed apparently in response to the fact
that no area credit would be received for ponds.
Gaffron said the drainage plan will provide a benefit to the neighborhood. It should reduce the flow
rate as it leaves the subdivision. The City Engineer had suggested runoff controls located at the head
of the ravine. Gaffron said Staff had not expected the stormwater pond to be shifted to the ravine.
There are major trees (oak, maple, basswoods) growing in the ravine, creating a problem with having
a stormwater pond at the head of the ravine, since the slopes make this a fragile environment.
Gaffron reported that there is adequate area to meet the front, rear, and side setbacks for all lots,
some of which are located in the Shoreland District and subject to the 500 - 1000', 35% hardcover,
• limitation. The northerly ravine is not located in the Shoreland District.
The City Engineer has reviewed the preliminary plat and suggested sanitary sewer run from
Wildhurst Trail. The developer will be responsible for the cost to bring the sewer in. The applicant
must confirm that the streets meet the design, speed, and radius standards and include a typical
section with the plans. Gaffron indicated that due to the park land restrictions on the proposed
northern cul -de -sac location, no cul -de -sac can be located there, only an access road across it. The
cul -de -sac should be moved to the southeast, while maintaining a corridor for access to both the park
land and Hennessy property. The proposed island should be omitted or cul -de -sac widened for
maintenance. Erosion controls must be in place before any site grading and additional measures
taken along the steep slope between Lots 3 and 4 where sewer construction will take place. Pre and
post development flow rates will be required and need MCWD approval. A NURP stormwater pond
will be required.
Gaffron reviewed general issues for consideration and discussion, including stormwater pond
relocation. The current proposed location would result in the removal of numerous mature trees,
change the characteristics of the ravine, negatively impact the views from the adjacent park land, and
causes a single family residence to be located within 10 -20' of a pond. Gaffron said the cul -de -sac
should be moved toward the east and continue the corridor to the park land. The Park Commission
has not reviewed the application for park fee or 8% land dedication. Gaffron suggested land be taken
in the ravine area. With the total acreage required for park dedication, stormwater, and roads, it may
isbe that the development will only consist of 6 lots.
15
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #3 - #2294 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
The Staff made 6 recommendations which are included in the memo.
Jim Waters noted that the City needs access to the park as well as runoff control. He suggested this
be shared with the City. Waters said the cul -de -sac could be dead - ended, but it was his attempt to
meet the turnaround requirement for maintenance and provide park access. Waters felt these issues
could be solved and benefit both the development and the City.
Waters informed Stoddard that he understood the Staff recommendations and agreed with them.
Bob Berklund said there would be the same negative impact on drainage noting the high amount of
algae found in Forest Lake.
Gary Welch said the ravine to Wildhurst goes through his property and reported drainage problems
he has had. He suggested a soil study be conducted. He is also concerned with disturbing the
vegetation on the slopes.
• Welch questioned the elevation of the proposed road on the east and west portions. Gaffron said all
of the drainage from the road is proposed to be directed to flow to the north. Much of it now flows
down through the south ravine. Gaffron acknowledged the problem and indicated that the flow rate
cannot increase from pre- development conditions and requires MCWD review.
•
Welch said there were two homes proposed in the 10 -16% range of elevation. Gaffron said the
attempt is to get the drainage from the driveway and house to flow to the front with gutters and
continue flowing to the north. He was informed that there is about 150'+ from the rear of the homes
to Wildhurst Trail. Welch added that this is not a typical situation noting the uniqueness of the area.
Kathryn Kasprick questioned the developer providing access to the park property. She does not feel
the trade off is appropriate.
Shirley Bowlen, 4690 Tonkaview Lane, reported that the intersection of Wildhurst Trail, CoRd 19,
and Tonkaview is dangerous. She indicated that another problem would be created with three
driveways at the top of the hill at Garden Lane and Tonkaview.
Lindquist informed her that the Planning Commission is aware of the problems.
16
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #3 - #2294 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
Steven Valek, 4720 Tonkaview, lives south of the pond and is concerned with the issue of water
drainage. He reported that over 10 acres drain into the pond and outlets through two lots into the
ravine. He asked that the primary concern is to address drainage there. He is concerned with the
retention of drainage on Lot 1. Valek acknowledged the advantages of a development.
Scott Hennessy, 1261 Wildhurst, also voiced concern with water drainage. He reported that a water
fall is created over his retaining wall when it rains. He said he loses half of his driveway each year.
Lindquist acknowledged this problem.
Lindquist said there are concerns with the pond and cul -de -sac. He informed Waters that any impact
on the ravine is not acceptable. He suggested another pond area be determined and reviewed by the
City Engineer.
Smith concurred with Staff s recommendations.
Hawn questioned whether a parking lot could be established in the area of the park property adjacent
• to the ravine. Gaffron responded that the first goal is to obtain and retain access to the Hennessy
property to keep the corridor open. The property is restricted in its development by the DNR. A
driveway can only be located across the property; more active uses can occur on the tax forfeit parcel
to the west.
•
Lindquist read into the record a letter from Brian and Sandra Rasmussen, 1186 Wildhurst Trail,
related to appropriate development and land management surrounding Forest Lake Bay.
Waters said he will do what is required to ensure safety of the neighborhood. He noted it was not
the responsibility of the developer to correct existing problems.
Helen Overboe was informed that LGA Development is located in Plymouth.
Gaffron noted the recommendations made by Staff and suggested the application be tabled based on
the changes required. He recommended the Planning Commission review the application at their
October meeting before review by Council.
Schroeder agreed with Gaffron noting the drainage to be a major issue of concern. He indicated that
the drainage is not a function of this property but is a problematic parcel. Schroeder was of the
opinion that the development would most likely be a 6 -lot subdivision.
17
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #3 - #2294 LGA Investment Group - Continued)
Smith and Lindquist agreed there is concern with the runoff problem. Lindquist suggested the
applicant work with the City Engineer. While noting the developer is not responsible for the current
problems, they do, however, need to be corrected.
Lindquist moved, Schroeder seconded, to table Application #2294. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
(The meeting was recessed for 7 minutes.)
( #4) #2298 CONLEY BROOKS, JR. AND JOHN BROOKS, 905/980 FERNDALE ROAD
WEST - SUBDIVISION OF A LOT LINE REARRANGEMENT - PUBLIC HEARING 9:39-
10:21 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
• Gaffron reported that the application is a request to detach Lot 13, North Shore Cottage Acres from
905 West Ferndale, and legally combine it with the Conley Brooks properties located across the
lagoon, Parcels A, E, H, and F. This is designated as a Class I subdivision as no plat is required as
it was previously platted. Gaffron indicated that the reattachment of the property to property across
the lagoon from it would be necessary.
•
It is the desire of the applicant to preserve his views across the lagoon. There is no structure located
in the 0 -75' setback. Some smaller trees on the peninsula may impact the views in the future.
Gaffron said Hennepin County would most likely not allow the legal combination with property
across the lagoon. This would then be subject to a special lot combination resolution to be filed on
the chain of title stipulating Lot 13 cannot be separated from the homestead parcel in the future
without City approval. This would eliminate the possibility of creating an unbuildable lot that could
be sold off.
Gaffron reviewed the three issues for consideration included in the packet on page 2 of the memo.
Smith was informed that the Shoreland District regulations control what occurs in the 0 -75' setback.
18
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #4 - #2298 Conley Brooks, Jr., and John Brooks - Continued)
Attorney, Bob Mitchell, referred to the definition of hardcover and the lay of the land. He noted the
peculiar parcel at 905 West Ferndale was approved for home reconstruction within the last 20 years.
Schroeder noted the percentage of hardcover at 905 West Ferndale is increasing because the amount
of land is decreasing.
Conley Brooks, Jr., said he is attempt to create a more sensible arrangement and improving views.
He says a scenic easement could be obtained that allows for maintenance of vegetation for the future.
He would like to have that responsibility in lieu of the adjacent neighbor having it. Brooks reported
that the area in the lagoon between the peninsula and the shore is mucky, and acquiring this piece
of property would allow for a swimming area.
Brooks said it would be superfluous for 905 West Ferndale to own it and would make logical sense.
He has no plans to improve the peninsula and would not object to combining the parcels. He has
a scenic easement with John Brooks. This will also improve the views for Mr. Floyd and other
neighbors.
• Fl 960 West Ferndale reviewed the nine basic points and
During public comments, Robert Floyd, p
issues of concern that he noted in a letter received by the Planning Commission at the meeting.
Floyd said a problem with the plan is the instability of the property lines and setting a precedent
within Orono regarding redrawing of the area. He is concerned with what happens in the future.
Floyd said the City should inform its citizens of what is occurring allowing for others to have
considered this option. Floyd said he did not think it was possible for this scenario to occur. Floyd
is concerned that this arrangement would present a feeling that property lines are temporary in
nature. He indicated the code stipulates that adjacent property owners have to be considered. He
noted the goal of the code is to preserve the valuation of the land. He noted the care of the waterway
needs utmost consideration.
Floyd reviewed problems. He noted the view from over the maple trees is a concern when the trees
mature. The channel was noted to be difficult in its habit of filling with sand. A point on Lot 13 was
removed to enable navigation of the channel. He questioned what would occur in the future.
Floyd questioned whether all of the issues have been reviewed. He referenced the future of the
parcel and other subdivisible parcels. He asked what criteria is used. He noted he would be
interested in acquiring some of the land in the future and fears that information he would need would
not be available. He asked that consideration be given for how such matters would be handled and
who would be able to purchase the properties. His concern is with preservation of the land. Floyd
• was concerned that the Planning Commission has not been given the time to review the issues he
addressed in his letter.
19
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #4 - #2298 Conley Brooks, Jr., and John Brooks - Continued)
Jerry McCourtney, 1055 West Ferndale, noted that this piece of parcel is the only beach area for use
by the area. He indicated that Mr. Floyd has use of the area for beach but has never maintained it.
McCourtney said Brooks has maintained it since purchasing it and would like to add it to his
property rather than see it revert to its prior condition.
Brooks said he would be willing to relocate the maple trees onto the shoreland on the other side of
the peninsula. He reiterated that the parcels would be combined.
Lindquist said he saw the detachment and reattachment as inconsistent. Lindquist voiced his opinion
that the peninsula should stay as part of the adjoining land.
Hawn said she was not against the application. Lindquist noted that there would be little pieces of
land but would be in support if the ownership was contiguous.
Stoddard was informed by Gaffron that he was unaware of any similar cases. Hawn noted a property
on Stubbs Bay that has shoreland with an adjoining island. Gaffron acknowledged this but noted
• both are owned by the same person inland from it but separate tax parcels.
Schroeder indicated that the property would no longer be contiguous but noted the property could
not be developed anyways.
•
Gaffron asked if the Commissioners would allow the property to be sold separately from the 980
West Ferndale parcel. The Commissioners said they would not recommend that and only support
the proposal with a combination of the lots.
Schroeder noted that the process of special lot combination with covenant requiring City approval
for any changes would also require a public hearing before any transfer could occur. He indicated
by following this process, nothing could just happen as feared by Floyd without the public being
notified.
Floyd asked what rationalization or criteria is being used to allow this to occur. Schroeder informed
him that the applicant could sell the parcel to Floyd in the future. Floyd noted there was no way for
him to make future plans. Berg informed him of the right of people to sell their property.
20
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #4 - #2298 Conley Brooks, Jr., and John Brooks - Continued)
Floyd asked what other properties could do the same as indicated by this proposal. Gaffron said
contiguity must be shown in order to preserve the code. The properties must abut or be adjacent to
be combined and must include a principal structure. He noted there are many cases where docks are
located across the road from the principal structure.
Gaffron explained the approval for the lot combination of 980 West Ferndale that was conceptually
approved by Council. Floyd noted the hearings in process regarding that approval. The ability to
gain access to the lake through dredging was noted to have received a permit from the DNR.
Floyd's Attorney, Kevin DeVore, asked about the use of the land by Brooks and the taxation of Lot
13 if it is not combined with another tax parcel. Schroeder reported that the land is taxed but not
legally combined. Gaffron reported that the legal combination includes issuance of a new tax
number. He noted Lot 13 was contiguous and part of the 905 West Ferndale parcel but came out of
a separate subdivision. Smith noted the issue is not one of continuity but of relative space. Gaffron
agreed.
• Brooks informed the Commission that he would be uncomfortable with maintaining and using
property that he did not own. He felt the two properties are consistent in view of drawing a logical
line for ownership.
•
Schroeder asked if the dispute regarding the 20' land strip had any bearing on this application.
Gaffron said it is his understanding that it does not. The 20' strip is apparently a separate piece of
land jointly owned by Floyd and Brooks. He indicated Brooks is attempting to acquire property
further east on the south side of the road center line exclusive of the City road.
Hawn moved, Schroeder seconded, to grant the request as submitted with a legal combination of Lot
13 or special lot combination if Hennepin County will not legally combine.
McMillan asked that the motion include the clarification that the peninsula piece of land is
unbuildable. It was noted the parcel is in the 0 -75' setback. A rational continuity is to be shown for
the combination to occur. It was noted that the special lot combination resolution allows for
approving a subdivision with special restrictions by covenants.
Berg questioned whether the additional land would be used in determining the amount of hardcover
available. Gaffron indicated the 0 -75' and 75 -250' setback areas are considered separately.
Schroeder said the lot size is what will increase.
21
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #4 - #2298 Conley Brooks, Jr., and John Brooks - Continued)
Smith voiced concern with this land acquisition making Brooks' property more buildable. Hawn
noted the peninsula was located in the 0 -75' setback. Gaffron said it could be a concern in a different
arrangement but not in this case due to the setback and lakeshore.
Schroeder asked if the motion should include a scenic easement which will benefit the property
owner of 980 West Ferndale and Robert Floyd.
Floyd noted that the covenants do not address the maple trees located on the tip of the point. Brooks
said he does have the scenic easement already and is willing to move the maple trees. Schroeder
noted that no easement would be required if he owns the property.
The special lot arrangement was explained.
Vote: Ayes 4, Nays 3, Lindquist, Smith, and Berg. Berg said she is concerned with setting a
precedent. Lindquist said the proposal is inconsistent with the Comprehensive Plan and the property
is not contiguous.
•ACTION ITEMS
•
( #6) GARY AND BONNIE BIRNBAUM, 2695 KELLY AVENUE - VARIANCES - PUBLIC
HEARING 10:21 -10:31 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Van Zomeren reported that the application is a request to renew a variance which has elapsed. Lot
width and lot area variances are required to allow the lot to be considered buildable. The 1.14 acre
property is located in the LR -1B, one acre, Zoning District. Van Zomeren reported the applicant had
indicated via a phone conversation earlier in the day that the survey that was submitted showed
inaccurate hardcover calculations as the concrete patio and other hardcover has been removed. Van
Zomeren said Staff recommends re- enactment of the previous variances subject to conditions noted
on page 5 of the memo.
22
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( 46 - 2283 Gary and Bonnie Birnbaum - Continued)
Mr. Birnbaum asked for consideration regarding the stipulation of removing the fence. It is located
on the edge of the property at the edge of the access road for the public beach. The area is uneven
and receives heavy traffic. The fence would provide for safety as there is no shoulder on the road.
There is also alot of snowmobile traffic during the winter months. Without the fence, the
snowmobilers would travel across the property onto Kelly Avenue instead of using the access road.
There were no public comments.
Smith asked the applicant if he has reviewed the Staff recommendations. Birnbaum said he supports
the recommendation with the exception for hardcover being reduced on Lot 2 and request the fence
remain.
Lindquist asked whether there was any reason why the fence cannot be moved onto Birnbaum's
property. Birnbaum said there was not much land left as the land has eroded. Berg noted that a
person can no longer walk out to the point.
• McMillan said it appears that what land is there is different from that shown on the survey. Stoddard
inquired how old the survey was. Van Zomeren said the survey was inaccurate regarding hardcover
and total acreage based on the applicant's phone call. Lindquist suggested approval be subject to an
updated survey.
is
Schroeder moved to approve Application #2283 subject to Staff recommendations with the exception
that the fence be allowed to remain on City property and an updated survey be provided prior to
application review by Council.
Stoddard responded that he felt the updated survey would show circumstances different than that
shown on the submitted survey. Birnbaum acknowledged that erosion has occurred. Stoddard
indicated that the water is hitting the fence area.
Schroeder received confirmation that the application is to enable the property to be one buildable
lot.
Stoddard noted that the property is in the one acre zoning district and consists of .52 acre and .6 acres
with the additional strip of land. This falls short of the requirement. Stoddard said he would like
to see what land exists.
23
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #6 - 2283 Gary and Bonnie Birnbaum - Continued)
Schroeder indicated he stands behind his motion due to the erosion occurring. McMillan indicated
that the water is 2' higher.
There was no second to the motion.
Lindquist moved, Hawn seconded, to table Application #2283 subject to an updated survey. Vote:
Ayes 6, Nays 1, Schroeder, who indicated he felt the results would be the same.
( #7) #2284 JAMES SLECHTA, 3700 NORTHERN AVENUE - VARIANCES - PUBLIC
HEARING 10:31 -10:45 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Van Zomeren distributed photographs of the property. The 127,968.3 s.f. property, consisting of
• 3.97 acres total and .6 acres wetland, is located in the LR -1C, 1/2 acre Zoning District. The proposal
is to construct a 42'x96' storage structure, which is in excess of the maximum for an oversized
accessory structure. The structure is proposed at a location 23' from the property line and 26.2' from
the wetland. The structure is proposed at a height of 23' with 16' side walls. The principal residence
is approximately 16' in height. With the size of the lot, the property is limited to an accessory
structure of 1,421.4 s.f.
James Slechta said his intention is to move to his parents property to provide them assistance and
requires the space to store his possessions. He has a building of similar size now at a different
location.
There were no public comments.
Schroeder was informed by Slechta that the building would be used to store his 35' boat, requiring
the height of the building, his vehicles and other equipment.
Lindquist informed Slechta that the building size was too large. He noted there were already four
outbuildings on the property now in addition to the residence. A variance from both the street and
side setbacks are also required. He asked what structure Slechta could obtain with meeting the
setbacks. Slechta said he could adjust the location but cannot reduce the size to 1400 s.f. Slechta
informed Schroeder that he did not intend to work in the building.
•
24
. ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #7 - #2284 James Slechta - Continued)
Berg said the applicant needs to reduce the building size to around 1400 s.f.
Slechta disagreed with this size. It is his opinion that there is adequate room for such a building as
he proposes.
Slechta responded to the issue of height noting the land is lower than the land where the other
buildings are located. He indicated the new building would not appear to be higher than the other
buildings.
Berg asked what Slechta's hardship is for the proposed structure. Slechta said he needs it for storage.
If he is unable to obtain the building, he would be unable to reside there and assist his parents.
Slechta said he would not be able to afford the expense of storing his possessions elsewhere.
Lindquist suggested the setbacks be eliminated and the building size reduced to 1400 s.f. He noted
there are three parcels under one ownership but could be subdivided in the future and must be
conforming and meet setbacks. He also noted the requirement for a 26' separation from the wetland.
• The building must also be reduced to meet the 30' front setback along with the setback from the
wetland.
Slechta was asked whether the application should be tabled or voted on. Slechta said he is unable
to decrease the size of the building.
Schroeder moved, Lindquist seconded, to deny Application #2284. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
( #8) #2285 JOHN LATTERELLE, 3505 LIVINGSTON AVENUE - VARIANCES - PUBLIC
HEARING 10:45 -10:56 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Bressler reported that the application is to construct a 12'x26' deck on the north side of the existing
residence. It would be located off the second story to provide a second exit for fire escape. The deck
would be located 18.2' from Livingston Avenue. The stairs and landing are not considered an
encroachment. Due to the proximity to the street, Staff recommended a 3'x3' landing with stairs
denying a 12' front setback variance. The 3' wide deck landing would decrease that setback variance
to 2.8'.
•
25
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #8 - #2284 John Latterelle - Continued)
Latterelle said the sole purpose of the deck is not only for a fire escape but to enjoy the outdoors.
He noted he also has an old refrigerator that he is unable to remove without the deck being built.
There were no public comments.
Lindquist noted no previous variance had been granted. The current owner was unaware of past
occurrences. Lindquist noted there is only one entrance with a garage underneath. He noted
approvals have been received for such additions and asked how much of a reduction the applicant
could provide. Hawn noted structural coverage variance is also required. The applicant said he
could reduce the 26'x12' deck to 20'x10'. A front setback variance would still be required and side
setback would be met at 10'.
Berg asked the applicant whether he would like the Commission to table the application, approve
with Staff recommendation, or possibly deny as proposed.
Stoddard said he would like to see the applicant have the opportunity to have a deck.
• Van Zomeren noted with the 200 s.f. deck structural coverage would be at 25% where 15% is
g ,
allowed. The .15 acre lot is in the 1/2 acre zoning.
CJ
Stoddard moved, Lindquist seconded, to approve Application #2285 approving a 200 s.f. deck
granting front variance and structural coverage of 25 %. Vote: Ayes 5, Nays 2, McMillan, Hawn,
due to the amount of structural coverage.
( #9) #2287 BRADLEY AND TRACI PETERSON, 1770 SHADYWOOD ROAD -
VARIANCES - PUBLIC HEARING 10:56 -11:02 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Van Zomeren reported that the applicant is a request to replace a deck on the lakeside of the existing
residence that is in progress. The building inspector tagged the work due to the need for a variance.
The deck replacement requires hardcover, side setback, average lakeshore setback, and lakeshore
setback variances. Structural coverage is at 15.9 %. The deck is less than 6' high and does not
increase the structural coverage.
26
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #9 - #2287 Bradley and Traci Peterson - Continued)
Peterson said he attempted to rebuild the deck that was there. Once he begun fixing it, he found he
needed to totally rebuild it. Peterson said he was unaware of the need to acquire variances. The
deck will be the same size as what existed.
Smith was informed that the hardcover calculations differ as the deck had already been removed.
There were no public comments.
Lindquist reviewed the situation leading up to the application.
Stoddard questioned whether some plastic could be removed from underneath landscaping. Van
Zomeren said it is unknown how much of that plastic is necessary to aid drainage. Smith suggested
the applicant work with Staff to determine if any could be removed. Lindquist said he would like
to see all of it removed, but Smith recommended maintaining that portion by the lakeshore per Staff
recommendation.
. Smith moved, McMillan seconded, to approve Application #2287 per Staff recommendation
including removal of plastic as noted. Vote: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
•
(Smith left the meeting.)
( #10) #2288 JASON THEIS, 4108 HIGHWOOD ROAD - VARIANCES AND CONDITIONAL
USE PERMIT - PUBLIC HEARING 11:02 -11:22 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Bressler provided photographs for the Commission to review. The proposal is to construct an
attached 697 s.f. tuck -under garage with living space above. Variances are required for hardcover,
front setback, and side setback. An updated survey with grading plan is required. The 53' lot width
requires 50'. There is insufficient room in which to turn a car, and the applicant is attempting to
acquire property from the neighbor. Grading has been revised. The 12% original grading is to be
revised at an acceptable 8 %. It currently does not meet that grade but applicant is of the opinion it
can be met.
27
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #10 - #2288 Jason Theis - Continued)
Bressler suggested an alternate plan by narrowing the driveway to 10' for a 8.1' side setback which
would meet the 10' requirement.
A letter was sent by a neighboring property owner. It was noted that the overhang is on the lot line,
and the neighbor is concerned if a fire should occur. Bressler said Staff recommends approval of
a 30' front setback as the entire residence is in front of the it. Bressler suggested the garage be
revised 3' to the northwest.
Theis said his neighbor's (the Sauer's) home intruded over his property line. He suggested his 1'
variance request would not be an endangerment. He believes the 2' variance is not actual as the
closest corner is set at 10'6" with an 18" cantilevered overhang.
Bressler said it did appear from the survey that there was an encroachment but it does meet the
requirement. Theis indicated that the scale was inaccurate.
Beverly Sauer reported that the property floods and will get water in the basement. Theis said he
. was aware of the problem and hoped it could be corrected. He indicated there is a 3' culvert
extending to the Sauer property leading to a manhole and onto a 10" pipe into Lake Minnetonka.
Theis said he has not seen his house flood but water has come within 35' -40' of his house. He
indicated what would affect the proposed garage would also affect the house.
Theis said he has 372 s.f. above grade and 300 s.f. below grade. With the proposed addition, he
would have 1100 s.f. above grade. Theis said not much could be done if the garage floods.
Lindquist questioned whether the property was in the flood plain.
Bressler noted there is a wetland area to the rear of the property.
Berg explained the flood plain location and indicated she feels there is a natural drainageway.
McMillan said she would like to see both the driveway and grading as planned. She questioned
whether there was a problem with the driveway being located up to the lot line and was informed
that this was not an issue. It has been indicated that the neighbor is willing to sell an amount of land
necessary for the garage and driveway.
Phil Otto, the neighbor on the garage side, reported that he is willing to sell Theis the amount of
space needed to provide for a turnaround.
•
28
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #10 - #2288 Jason Theis - Continued)
Stoddard asked Theis his opinion of the Staff recommendation. Theis said he was satisfied with the
recommendation. He is willing to scale back the driveway and working on correcting the slope.
Theis told Lindquist he would provide a grading plan.
Bressler indicated that engineering of the plan has not occurred. Berg asked that this be done.
Theis reported there is a 5' drop from the top of the existing driveway to the garage. He did not feel
that span was a problem with a 30' area.
McMillan indicated there is a runoff problem existing along the retaining wall on the west side.
Theis said the problem exists by the stairs which need to be reconstructed.
With the grade of the driveway and flooding possibilities, Lindquist recommended a 8% slope
instead of 10 %.
• Stoddard moved, Lindquist seconded, to recommend approval of Application #2288 for an attached
697 s.f. tuck under garage with living space above for hardcover and front setback variances subject
to Staff recommendation. The 10' side setback is to be met and a revised plan submitted showing
a 10' driveway meeting the hardcover in the 75 -250' setback. The grading plan is to be provided
prior to Council review. Staff is to review flooding requirements.
Berg asked why the particular size as proposed. She was informed that there was only 372 s.f. above
grade and no bathroom on the main level. The second bedroom is only 6'x9', and the applicant
would like a larger master bedroom.
Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
( #11) #2290 ELAINE AND STEVE SILUS, 3235 CASCO CIRCLE
VARIANCE /CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - PUBLIC HEARING 11:22 -11:57 P.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
•
NZ
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #11 - #2290 Elaine and Steve Silus - Continued)
Van Zomeren reported that the application was reviewed earlier in 1997. Pictures of the property
were distributed. The applicants received variances for average lakeshore setback for construction
of a deck, hardcover, and structural coverage. There was concern for saving trees at that time. The
3 -car garage is a side load with a driveway about 5' from the lot line. The plan was submitted to the
Building Inspector, Lyle Oman, in June of 1997 with the addition of a boulder wall along the
driveway that had not been previously reviewed.
The proposal is to allow grading within 5' of the property line for a boulder wall for the house under
construction. Staff is concerned with the hardcover calculations being incorrect and affected in the
75 -250' setback and 250' -500' setback. Van Zomeren said Greg Gappa has recommended that
boulders not be used as engineering is difficult. Staff recommends denial of a boulder wall for
replacement with an engineered wall to be located 5' from the property line. A retaining wall would
be allowed in the 10' required side yard if it does not exceed 6' in height. Hardcover variances may
still be required. The City Engineer's approval is also required.
Silus said he received the information packet on Saturday. He reported that he knew prior to
• construction that access would be difficult. The builder had approved on -site the building of the wall
2' off the lot line. The builder had told Silus that he did not need a variance. Silus said the grade of
the garage was lowered per instructions from the building inspector and new footings were poured.
u
Schroeder told Silus that the builder must know that a variance was required. He also indicated that
the public was improperly notified, which would require tabling of the application to allow for
proper notification.
Van Zomeren indicated that the public notification list was from December, 1996, and she originally
thought only a side yard variance was required. It was determined that a CUP would be required for
grading and the legal notice did not specify this requirement.
Silus said he originally submitted the application with Gaffron and had a conversation with Hawn
regarding hardcover. He indicated he is not requesting approval of additional hardcover and had
originally reduced it. He said he is attempting to extend out the garage portion only.
Lindquist read a letter from Mr. & Mrs. Spilseth in opposition to the hardcover and proximity to
their property line being requested in the application.
30
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #11 - #2290 Elaine and Steve Silus - Continued)
Silus said he was not requesting to run the wall down to the roadway but only about 75' down. It
would end at the point where he could gain access. Silus said he did assume that the wall could be
closer than 5'. He indicated other neighbors have walls closer than 5'. Silus said he was unaware
of the ordinance. He said he thought the boulder wall would present a natural look but would be
satisfied with an interlocking wall system.
Lindquist asked if the wall would be at 2 -1/2' from the property line or on the lot line. Silus said the
landscaper put the wall on the lot line but would be 5' off the lot line. He would like to move part
of the wall to maintain a contour.
Hawn questioned how plowing would occur. Silus indicated that he has not infringed on the
neighboring property in the past. Hawn felt this could create a problem for the neighbor. Silus said
he blows the snow up to where the existing garage is currently located.
Lindquist noted the need for new notification and updated hardcover with changes for the wall and
back -out area. He asked that the location be provided along with who would make the
• determination. Van Zomeren said she would like Greg Gappa to review the application.
Schroeder suggested tabling the application, and Lindquist asked that direction be given.
•
Silus said he would like the opportunity to work with Staff within the hardcover guidelines
authorized in February, 1997.
Dave Spilseth said the 60' wide lot is too narrow to provide for a side loading garage. He suggested
a straight -in approach.
Lindquist indicated the City Engineer would have to be consulted.
Jay Richards, who lives two homes away to the north, said he did not receive notification. He
reported that the problem with dividing the lots arose four years ago and the problems created should
have been foreseen. He noted the wall is straight and has no arch to it. Silus indicated that the site
plan was approved by Lyle Oman in June.
Schroeder moved, Lindquist seconded, to table Application #2290 to allow for proper public
notification and hardcover calculations. The applicant is directed to speak with neighbors regarding
the proposal.
31
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #11 - #2290 Elaine and Steve Silus - Continued)
Direction for grading is unknown at this time and requires review by the City Engineer. Gappa
indicated that the engineered wall should be no closer than 5' from the property line.
Silus was informed that it is unknown how the changes would affect the approved site plan.
Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
Lindquist reopened the public hearing to allow for comments from the neighbors.
Susie Swanson, who lives four homes to the south, asked what ordinances apply to water runoff.
She saw the problem as being the garage built on a new grade from the previously existing grade and
is concerned with a change in drainage. She felt the side setback variance was a problem.
Silus noted the difficulty in turning around on the property.
Berg noted the builder has an obligation to correct the problems.
•
Diane Carlson said she had requested side facing doors about 8 years ago and had to turn the garage.
She felt the garage could be built without the type of entrance as proposed. She felt the property
owners caused their own problems.
•
Pat Spilseth indicated the change in grade has caused her to view the wall and cars. She noted the
prescriptive easement. She voiced concern that as the next -door neighbor she was not informed of
what was occurring.
Schroeder noted it was not the job of the Planning Commission to inform the neighbors. He asked
if there was a grading plan and elevations with respect to the driveway at the time of original
application.
Mayor Jabbour answered on behalf of the City. He asked that applicant provide hardcover
calculations that not reflect the boulder walls. The wall was not part of the calculations.
32
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #12) #2291 STEVEN SIGEL, 1399 PARK DRIVE - VARIANCES - PUBLIC HEARING
11:57 P.M. -12:11 A.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Bressler indicated that the proposal is to remove an existing two car garage and replace it with a
detached 760 s.f. garage in approximately the same location. Hardcover and side yard variances are
required. There are some topographical limitations to the property but should not negatively impact
the property. The survey has shown a wood walkway to the garage. Staff recommended removal
and replacement with a 4' concrete sidewalk. The garage is proposed at 32'x24'. There is an issue
with preservation of a large oak tree resulting in the need for the side yard setback variance. Bressler
reported that the property meets the hardcover calculations with a 22'x31' garage and realigned
driveway but would require removal of the tree and relocation of cables.
Staff recommends approval of a hardcover variance in the 75 -250' setback for 27% hardcover. This
would be accomplished by narrowing the driveway to meet the hardcover in the 250 -500' setback
• in order to preserve the tree and meet the side setback. Bressler said Staff has demonstrated that the
side yard and hardcover in the 250 -500' setback could be met.
Sigel said the side setback variance is necessary due to the slope of the lot. Moving it closer makes
the sidewalk located into the slope of the lot. The 3' slope setback by the driveway and neighboring
property allows the garage to be located on the same foundation with the addition of a third stall.
Sigel reported that the increased hardcover is due to erosion control as the elevation is higher at the
neighboring property than the house. He would like a retaining wall the width of the garage to
restore the elevation and keep erosion under control.
Sigel said he would remove the decking if necessary to comply. It is landscaped and lit, however.
The current garage is located 7' from the property line and Sigel would like to maintain 10'. The 4'
walkway as opposed to a 3' walkway for 90' would aid in eliminating 9' from the walkway.
There were no public comments.
Hawn, while understanding the need for compliance, was of the opinion that the existing sidewalk
should remain. She was informed by Sigel when questioned that the retaining wall would be 22'x1'
and 250' away from the lakeshore at that distance. He also stated the deck would be elevated 9'.
•
33
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #12 - #2291 Steven Sigel - Continued)
McMillan agreed that the wood walkway should remain. She is in favor of the retaining wall to
correct the erosion problem. She asked that attention to paid to drainage. Silus asked if drain tile
was necessary. McMillan asked that he work with Staff.
Hawn moved, McMillan seconded, to approve Application #2291 for replacement of existing garage
with a 3 -car garage for hardcover and side yard variances, approval of a retaining wall and retention
of the slatted wood walkway. If wood walkway is in need of replacement, it will be replaced with
4' walkway.
Silus said the hardcover in the 250 -500' setback exists at 37% and is being reduced to 35.9 %. The
3 -car garage will be flared to a 10' width. He asked to maintain the distance to enable turning around
the tree. Gappa suggested a 12' width.
Hawn amended the motion, McMillan seconded, to approve a driveway width of 12'. Vote: Ayes
6, Nays 0.
• ( #13) #2292 TOM OKERSTROM, 770 TONKAWA ROAD - VARIANCES - PUBLIC
HEARING 12:11 -12:27 A.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Bressler reported that the application is for construction of a 684 s.f. 2 -story detached garage and
additional driveway requiring hardcover, structural coverage, and front setback variances. The
hardcover is less than 30% in the 75 -250' setback and proposed at 34% in the 250 -500' setback. A
3 -1/2' sidewalk will continue to 24' wide at the garage. The driveway is 24' to Tonkawa.
Bressler said Staff recommends the sidewalk be reduced to 3' with 10' width at the garage. He noted
the sight line is poor. Staff recommends a garage reduction to 22'x34' and eliminate the portion of
sidewalk accordingly.
The approval would be subject to a 428 s.f. garage, 3' sidewalk with turnaround area. Hardcover
would be 32% in the 75 -250' setback, currently proposed at 34.66 %. The 250 -500' hardcover would
be at 38% where 30% is allowed. Staff recommended removal of the 64 s.f. shed to eliminate
hardcover in the 0 -75' setback. Bressler said Staff is of the opinion that 15% lot coverage can be
met. Staff recommends approval of a 20' front setback variance but recommends no further
• hardcover be allowed on the property in the future.
34
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #13 - #2292 Tom Okerstrom - Continued)
Okerstrom acknowledged the hardcover issues. He said he revised his plan from recommendations
made and decreased structural coverage to 14.98 %. He said the garage could be reduced and moved
forward reducing the amount of sidewalk and removing the shed.
There were no public comments.
Lindquist noted that the applicant had moved into the home this spring and questioned why the
garage was not built at the same time as the house. Okerstrom indicated that no variances were
required at that time and noted the lot is only 51' width. Lindquist voiced concern that the wait on
the garage was to enable the applicant to gain more structure on the property. McMillan indicated
that residents will reduce the size of the home in order to obtain a garage.
Hawn noted that the walkway to the lake was not included in the calculations. Stone steps are
included. Bressler said the survey only showed the existence of the shed, and he had been unaware
of the steps. Hawn asked that accurate information be presented. Van Zomeren said steps are
allowed to the lake and need to be reflected in the hardcover calculations. The survey had previously
• been done and reused for this application.
�J
Schroeder voiced concern with the inability to rely on the information provided by the applicant.
Berg said the information should all be available at time of application.
Schroeder moved, Lindquist seconded, to table Application #2292 for a revised survey. Vote: Ayes
6, Nays 0.
( #14) #2295 CONLEY BROOKS, JR., 980 WEST FERNDALE ROAD - VARIANCES -
PUBLIC HEARING 12:27 -12:56 A.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The Applicant was present.
Gaffron reported that the application is two -fold, involving replacement of a garage and construction
of a new fence. The triangular piece of property contains an existing garage. As part of the recent
subdivision approval, the applicant was given 60 -90 days in which to remove the garage. The
replacement garage will be located in about the same footprint in the 75 -250' setback. Hardcover
exists at 14% and would increase to slightly over 15 %.
35
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #14 - #2295 Conley Brooks, Jr. - Continued)
The existing garage is located 2.8' into the right -of -way. The new garage would be F into the
property and meet the 10' side setback. A variance is required for setback from the wetland for a 20'
separation instead of the required 26'. The garage will also be located in front of the front line of the
residence. It will be 24'x24' and have one garage door and used for storage of lake equipment. The
door will be to the side.
Gaffron reported that parcels H, E, and A could be legally combined.
Gaffron asked for a statement why replacement will be in the particular location. He asked the
Planning Commission if they wanted to see a larger setback from the street, whether they would
accept a lesser wetland separation, or if the garage should be located on this parcel at all.
Another issue is the replacement of the fence, which is located on the lake side of the road along the
portion of land acquired by Brooks. The ro ad has 60' right -of -way width. The edge of the road is
actually 30' away from the property boundary but the existing fence in the right -of -way is at the
perceived boundary. Gaffron indicated that the poor condition of the fence is likely due to its
. proximity to the road. He reported that Chapter 6 of the Municipal Code requires a permit to allow
this encroachment. A portion of the fence is located within the 0 -75' setback.
•
Gaffron said Staff recommends the fence not be allowed within the right -of -way and should be
located at the property boundary. If it is located less than at the property boundary, it should be at
least 15' from the paved roadway with screening between the fence and the road. Gaffron said the
applicant would be asked to sign a hold - harmless agreement for damage to and maintenance of the
fence. He asked the Planning Commission to review the hardship statement.
Mr. Brooks said the garage is part of the old Skarp property, and its replacement is a step in the
clean-up process of the property. He intends to replace it with a storage garage with no driveway.
He indicated there is no other location on the property on which to place the garage. It will service
the house and lakeshore.
Brooks said the fence is necessary for privacy and to eliminate trespassing. He noted the property
is narrow in its width. The fence is currently located on the road side of the tree line and could be
located 6 -8' back as opposed to 4 -6'. If it was located behind the tree line at about 10 -12', it would
leave room for vegetation to grow and for snow plowing. He reported that most of the homes in the
area have some sort of visible barrier within 6' of the road with fences or trees, and he feels this fence
would be consistent with the neighborhood.
36
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #14 - #2295 Conley Brooks, Jr. - Continued)
Robert Floyd, 960 West Ferndale Road, agreed with the removal of the garage, noting it to be an
eyesore and hazardous. He felt the problems with parking and trespassing were good reasons to
allow the fence to be located closer to the road. Floyd said the road has a blind curve in that area.
He felt the distance of the fence from the road as proposed is a good idea, and the existing fence
should be removed.
Floyd questioned the relationship between this property and the 20' strip of land. He indicated that
it was his feeling the subdivision and improvements should not be addressed until this relationship
has been solved. He does not feel permits should be issued without the determination.
Jerry McCourtney said his property is in sight of the proposed garage, and he supports the
improvements proposed.
Hawn said if the fence and garage received approval, both would be subject to the legal approval of
the subdivision with respect to the two lots. If pending legal action goes against it, she felt the
applicant should be prepared to remove them. The combination with Brooks property must be
• solved.
Brooks responded that the property to the north is not in dispute. He said he has no doubt about the
ownership. The question is with the 20' strip of land. Brooks said he would remove the fence if he
had to in the future.
Lindquist was informed by Gaffron that no garage would be allowed in this location if proposed
today. Lindquist noted the garage is hazardous but questioned approving it.
Schroeder inquired about the proximity to the water. Gaffron said the garage had an issue with
wetland separation. The lake is more than 75' away.
Stoddard questioned if the garage could be built without the 10' front setback from the building to
enable the 26' wetland separation. Gaffron noted the distances and said it could not be done.
McMillan asked if the accessory structure was grandfathered in. The garage would be less than 26'
from the wetland, subject to the same ordinances and would be non - conforming. Lindquist noted
the problem with wetland on one side of the garage and the road on the other.
Brooks said his hardship is the house located on an island with no additional room to place the
garage. There is a main garage. He indicated a lakeside structure is important for storage. Lindquist
• informed him that the buildings as proposed could not be built new today.
37
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #14 - #2295 Conley Brooks, Jr. - Continued)
Floyd said he was conceptually in support of the plan.
Schroeder indicated that the only compelling reason for approval of the fence is the existence of the
fence today. He felt the fence should be moved back. Brooks said he would amend the plan to place
it 10 -12' behind the tree line. Gaffron said that distance would be better as it gives screening and a
10' clear zone for plowing and parking.
Stoddard inquired about the 6' height. Gaffron said it would not normally be allowed. A county
road is the only location where a fence of that height would be allowed. He questioned whether that
height is appropriate.
Lindquist moved, Hawn seconded, to approve the reconstruction of the fence at a minimum of 10'
from the edge of the pavement behind the tree line. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
McMillan questioned whether the garage could be reduce to 18' to meet the 26' wetland separation
with a street setback variance. Hawn noted it would be used for storage only. Brooks said he could
• reduce the size somewhat.
Gaffron reported that the wetland edge has been delineated by the surveyor per the City map. The
distance from the existing garage to the edge of the wetland has not been measured. The
measurement may change where the garage should be located.
Stoddard moved, McMillan seconded, to approve a street setback variance and variance for an
accessory structure nearer to the front of the street lot line than the existing residence. The garage
is to be a maximum of 18'x24' and located 26' from the wetland boundary as per City map. Vote:
Ayes 5, Nays 1, Lindquist, who felt the garage should not be built at that location at all.
( #15) #2297 DARYL HANSEN FOR MRS. ROBERT KEITH, 1045 EDGEWOOD HILLS
ROAD - VARIANCE - PUBLIC HEARING 12:56 -12:59 A.M.
The Affidavit of Publication and Certificate of Mailing were noted.
The applicant was represented by Daryl Hansen.
Van Zomeren reported that the proposal is for an addition to the garage. Code requires that an
accessory structure cannot be located closer than 10' from the principal structure. The reason for the
location is to eliminate having an open area in which a person could fall into the pool. The approval
• of the variance would continue the existing encroachment. Van Zomeren said she supported the
application as it makes the residence more accessible and is the least intrusive addition.
38
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15,1997
( #15 - #2297 Daryl Hansen for Mrs. Robert Keith - Continued)
Hansen said it was the attempt to keep the structure as far away from the pool as the current
structure. The pool is required for handicap uses. The space requirement meets what is required to
address the handicap issues.
There were no public comments.
McMillan moved, Berg seconded, to approve Application #2297. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
Van Zomeren noted that the application should be presented to Council at their September 22
meeting.
( #16) PROPOSED AMENDMENT OF SHORELAND AND ON -SITE SEWAGE
TREATMENT ORDINANCES - PUBLIC HEARING 12:59 -1:20 A.M.
Gaffron reported that the Council directed Staff to draft an amendment to the time period for
40 upgrading a non - conforming septic system due to the lack of a 3' separation in the Shoreland District
(within 1000' from lakeshore). The current time frame is 2 years. Staff was also asked to revise
ordinances so that a building permit or variance application will no longer trigger an immediate
system upgrade in the Shoreland District for non - conforming systems solely due to the lack of 3'
separation.
•
Gaffron reviewed the shoreland code and septic system code. He noted the rationale for this
proposed amendment changes is the Council's intention to review the policies on sewer in the rural
area. The current cost for septic system replacement is nearing the cost of municipal sewer and
sewering is a possible outcome of the policy review. The areas outside the Shoreland are allowed
10 years in which to comply when the 3' separation is the only reason for being non - compliant.
The time frame was chosen based on the sheer number of systems needing replacement, and the
City's long - standing program of requiring immediate replacement of failing systems as a higher
priority. The two -year time frame had been suggested by the DNR.
Gaffron reported that the legislature has changed its direction regarding ordinances on existing
systems and are continually making more changes.
Gaffron indicated that these amendments make logical sense and would allow a study to be done
regarding where the City is heading on sewering.
39
0 ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #16 Proposed Amendment of Shoreland and On -Site Sewage Treatment Ordinance - Continued)
Schroeder asked and received an explanation of what "separation" means.
Schroeder was informed of the numbers needing replacement at this time and the percentage within
the Shoreland.
McMillan was informed that it is unknown how many properties have an alternate septic site at this
time. Gaffron said due to this, the ten hot spots were developed.
Mike Schulte reported that the neighbor of his on Wildhurst Trail that initiated discussion of this
proposal had purchased additional land to allow an addition to be built within the code requirements
for setback. The purchase of the additional land triggered the use of it for a new system to meet the
3' separation. He questioned how reasonable the request was when the preferred location for the
septic was the only site available prior to the purchase of the additional land.
Schulte also questioned when the testing was done with recent rains increasing the problem with
meeting the 3' separation. Gaffron informed him that the soil characteristics are what is checked and
• timing is incidental, that recent rains won't influence the test results.
Jabbour noted the City's desire to assist the homeowner, but the result of the Council and Staff
review is the changing information regarding separation. Jabbour noted that there are 250 systems
identified as non - conforming, and the number will increase. He said the City is trying to understand
the formula used by agencies in relationship to standards. Septic systems have been one method
whereby low density has been maintained.
•
Jabbour said he has changed his perspective regarding sewer as residents are becoming more willing
to pay for sewer. The policy change would allow time for a study of possible changes in regards to
septic systems and sewering in the City for long range planning.
Schroeder questioned the liberal guidelines with the vast majority of systems with less than a 1'
separation. Jabbour said the solution is unknown at this time but did not want to see 600 new septic
systems. He felt time is necessary to review the issues.
Stoddard inquired of the time frame and whether the Shoreland District should be considered a
higher priority than other properties.
Hawn was informed that the 10 year time period was to be consistent with non- shoreland properties.
40
• ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, 1997
( #16 Proposed Amendment of Shoreland and On -Site Sewage Treatment Ordinance - Continued)
Hawn thought the time frame was too long considering the public hazards. Jabbour said the time
frame could be revisited.
Stoddard suggested a 5 year time limit. He felt swimming water should be considered differently
from water in aquifers, which takes years to affect.
Lindquist moved, Schroeder seconded, to approve the proposed amendments. Vote: Ayes 4, Nays
2, Hawn, Stoddard, who agreed with the rationale but felt 10 years was too long a time frame. He
felt it should be considered differently based on surface water quality. Schroeder noted that the
septic systems that are failing are repaired.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
( #17) REPORT BY PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVES ATTENDING
COUNCIL MEETINGS OF AUGUST 25 AND SEPTEMBER 8, 1997
0 No report was given.
( #18) OTHER ISSUES FOR DISCUSSION
No other issues were discussed.
( #19) PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF THE AUGUST 18, 1997
MEETING
Schroeder moved, Stoddard seconded, to approve the Minutes of the Planning Commission Meeting
of August 18, 1997. Vote: Ayes 6, Nays 0.
( #20) PLANNING COMMISSION TO SELECT REPRESENTATIVES TO ATTEND THE
COUNCIL MEETINGS OF SEPTEMBER 22, 1997
September 22 - Stoddard
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 1:23 a.m.
0
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Dale Lindg6 t, C air rson
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41