HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-18-1992 Public Hearing_Continuation_ Stubbs Bay Sewer Project Minutes1
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
HELD BY THE ORONO COUNCIL ON
HELD MAY 18, 1992
ROLL
The Council met on the above date with the following members
present: Mayor Barbara Peterson, Councilmembers Gabriel Jabbour,
Edward Callahan, J. Diann Goetten and Mary Butler. The following
represented the City staff: City Administrator Ron Moorse, Public
Works Director John Gerhardson, Finance Director Tom Kuehn,
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator Michael Gaffron, City
Attorney Tom Barrett, City Engineer Glenn Cook, and City Recorder
Teri Naab. Mayor Peterson called the meeting to order at 7:08 P.M.
Mayor Peterson noted that this meeting is a continuation of the
public hearing for the Stubbs Bay Assessment. The meeting was
continued to allow Mr. Knight, an attorney representing residents
in the area, time to meet with'the City and to get answers to their
questions.
Mr. Knight said he has communicated several times with the City and
has submitted a proposal to the City Administrator Moorse. He
explained the principal concern of his clients is the cost of the
project. He stated the consensus of the residents he represents
is that they would like sewer but disagree with the cost and would
like to see an extension to the required hookup time period. He
stated the proposal he submitted did not exclude any parcel. He
expressed his clients' feeling that the value of their homes do
justify a lower sewer charge.
Lee Harren, 175 Landmark Drive, said he has sent several letters
to the Council stating his opposition of inclusion. He explained
his house was constructed in 1989 on a 2+ acre parcel with primary
and alternate septic sites. He stated the City Engineer indicated
to him that the only reason for inclusion was that the neighboring
property to the west needed sewer which could be run through his
property, but that was deemed undesirable as it would run
approximately 400' through a wooded area. He stated he is
currently being included through a lateral from the east. He asked
the Council to consider his property to be excluded from the
project and asked that he get a response from the Council in
writing.
011ie Peterson, 475 Oxford Road, said that the houses on Oxford
Road are all newer and are all on-2+ acre lots. She stated that
7 of the 9 property owners on that street are opposed to 'the
project.
Jabbour asked to have it clarified if the residents of Cygnet Place
and Oxford Road wished to be included with the project.
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Joe Demeo, 400 Oxford Road, stated that many of the residents in
that area wish.to be included if the price is right. He said they
were hoping to have a counter offer to the proposal that they had
submi.tted through Mr. Knight.
Goetten understood that there was criteria that properties would
need to meet to be excluded from the project.
Dennis Shaw, 405 Oxford Road, stated they feel excluded from the
whole process. He tried to join the citizens' advisory committee
and was discouraged from joining.
Knight clarified that the consensus of his group is that they would
agree with the sewer at an acceptable price, but at the current
proposed assessment, wished to be excluded from the project.
Goetten said, "they can't have it all ".
Mayor Peterson asked what they consider an acceptable price.
Knight said that the proposal he submitted states what the
residents he represents want.
Goetten clarified that the group Knight represents want: the
taxpayers of Orono to pay a large portion of the project. She
stated that the Council, in good faith, decided to pay 30% of the
project.
Knight said they were hoping the C i ty wou I d counter their proposal.
Jabbour explained that the present Council decided to assess via
an appraisal process to determine the potential of a property and
what would stand up in court. He felt that property owners should
not feel impelled to hire a lawyer to get what is fair to them.
He stated that if the citizens that Knight represents feel that
they have not had enough time to study the project, they should be
allowed more time, but he felt the base of the project should
continue. He stated that the original intent was to run the sewer
line across the lakeshore portion of the property on Oxford Road
but due to the request of the residents, was changed to run down
the street which made the assessment for that area higher.
Shaw noted that to allow connection for a failing system, the line
needed to run down the road.
Jabbour said he does: not have a problem allowing additional time
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT'HEARING
HELD BY THE ORONO COUNCIL ON
HELD MAY 18, 1992
to hook up if the septic system is functioning properly.
Dave Peterson, 2625 Fox Street, stated he was on the advisory
committee. He said he is not a part of this project but his
mother's property is involved. He noted that his septic system has
recently failed, and on a 2 1/2 acre parcel, cannot find an
alternate site. He stated that the life expectancy of a septic
system is 20 years. He reminded them that nothing can be built on
an alternate site and it cannot be driven on. He stated it will
cost him more to, restore his system than the sewer project will
cost any of them. He stated to Shaw that the advisory committee's
intent was to welcome anyone wishing to be involved.
Pat Crane, 285 Leaf Street, stated he is part of the Cygnet Place
area. He said he preferred to be a part of the project but felt
that the Council pulled a figure out of a box. He stated it
appears that they determined the cost of the base area, then
included the additional areas at a higher cost. He felt that the
entire project should be figured on a per unit basis, making the
cost of the project for everyone $10,762.00, less the amount
retained in the contingency fund at $730.00 per parcel. He felt it
was unfair that an area would get service for less than another.
Terry Olsen, 3640 Bayside Road, said he accepts the project but
questioned 'why those in need of the service are paying less for the
project. He said he had a problem with a mandatory hookup if the
current system is functioning.
Linda Whitman, 3620 Eileen Street, stated she originally requested
,to be excluded from the project, but has changed her position. She
stated they would like to be included but do not want to be forced
to hook up immediately. She noted they would like some possibility
of negotiating the assessment.
M i ke rF i nn I ey, 3425 East I ake St reet , sa i d he was i n favor of the
project, but felt that it should not be assessed on a per unit
basis as he has a very small lot with a cabin.
David Ilse, 3630 Eileen Street, stated they would like to be
included but objected to the required hookup. He said he would
like to see the contingency fund returned to the property owners.
Don Gronbera, 110 Leaf Street, explained that there is a dam on
his property. He said he was one of the first to purchase a lot
in this area, and when he did so the creek was not flooded. The
dam was Installed w i th the blessings of the DNR In 1960-61. He
stated that there is a valve that is used to release the water
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MINUTES'OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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which may change the setbacks required to the creek. He asked if
the dam were to go out, who could be required to pay for
restoration. He asked that the CouncII further consider this
property with regards to setbacks and sewer Ing. He stated the main
intent of the sewer project is to help clean up Lake Minnetonka and
wondered if the City couldn't contribut.e more in light of this.
Mayor Peterson closed the public hearing at 7:45 p.m.
Jab,bour asked if staff had looked Into using CDBG funds to help
residents with lower income with the project.
Moorse explained that per Larry Blackstad, Coordinator of the
funds; there was potential to use some of that money and stated he
was to meet with Blackstad at the end of the week.
Mayor Peterson clarified that the money cannot be used to apply
towards the entire project.
Jabbour'asked if the contingency could be divided and assigned to
specific areas, and if that area did not have any appeals, could
be refunded to those residents.
Goetten stated that the money cannot be returned until the project
is completed. Y
Butler clarified that those in agreement with the project are
opposed to the immediate hookup. She stated that deadline is set
by the Council but noted a date - certain would need to be
established. She did not care when that date was as long as it was
specified. Butler explained that when the project was bid, the
cost was determined. She said, "you do not go to the grocery store
and- argue with the grocer over the price of a pound of butter".
The same principal applies to the sewer project.
Mayor Peterson and Jabbour agreed. Goetten said she agreed with
the philosophy but did not want the deadline date for connection
to be extended to 20 years and stated that the owner would need to
prove their septic system was working to continue use.
Callahan felt that those in need of sewer should be required to
connect immediately. He stated that staff should have the final
decision on whether a system is functioning and can continue to be
used. He noted that if a house is sold, the owner should be
required to connect, to sewer. He felt that 3 -5 years for mandatory
hookup would be appropriate.
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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HELD MAY 18, 1992
Moorse agreed that parameters need to be established and suggested
staff draft criteria to determine if a system is functioning
properly.
Gaffron noted that various conditions would need to be defined.
He indicated that failure would include systems discharging to the
surface while non - conforming systems may be a system not
discharging to the surface but too close to the water table based
on soil borings. He stated that because of the new shoreland
regulations, the DNR and PCA are saying that if an existing system
is too close to the water table, it is a non - conforming system and
must be replaced within a year.
Jabbour stated that he understood that the PCA is going to make a
conscious effort to pursue enforcement. He stated that if the
project had been done a couple years ago when the water table was
lower the cost would have been much lower. He reminded the
residents that because of the City's good bond rating, the City is
able to get a bond at a lower rate. He felt that they have a moral
obligation to continue with the project for the base area. He
indicated he would like to go ahead with the project excluding
Oxford Road and Cygnet Place.
Goetten felt that the criteria should be evaluated for areas not
to be included. She asked if the trunk charge should be assessed
to the two areas excluded.
Jabbour asked if a new public hearing would be necessary to change
the assessment roll to include only a trunk charge to those areas.
Barrett stated the Council has given notice of the project at
certain dimensions. He stated that if reduced in scope or
assessment, the Council would need to order a reduced project by
resolution and that this assessment would be effective to pay for
that reduced project.
Butler suggested they decide on the time period for required hookup
as that may help those opposed to the project decide if they wished
to be included. She stated that the price cannot be changed as if
more is assessed City -wide to all taxpayers, there will be many
more in opposition to this project. She explained that the
proposed assessment'wIII mean a $5.00 to $25.00 per year /per parcel
for 15 year Increase to all in Orono.
Jabbour said he d i d not care If the property was required to hookup
if sold.
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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Callahan felt that it could easily happen that a future owner would
be unaware of the required hookup charge.
Barrett stated that information would not hi
disclosed. He indicated that the only way to
owner was informed would be to file a document
of title, however on torrens property that would
He explained that future property owners would
City ordinances in effect at that -time.
ive to be legally
ensure the future
against the chain
be very difficult.
be subject }to the
Butler reviewed a memo by Gaffron entitled, "Extended period for
sewer connection ", whereby the following conditions were suggested:
1. All failing systems shall connect to the sewer
immediately upon the availability of the sewer.
2. All systems determined to be non- conforming,
including those too near the water table and /or less than
75' from the creek or lake and /or less than 50' from a
well shall connect to the sewer within 16 months of its
availability.
3. Any conforming functioning system constructed before
1/1/78 shall connect - to the sewer within 16 months of its
availability. Such systems will have had a useful service
life of 15 years or more.
4. Any conforming system constructed between 1/1/78 and 1/1/88
shall connect within 36 months of sewer availability or by
1/1/96, thus ensuring that such systems shall have had a
useful service life of between 8 and 17 years.
.5. Any conforming system constructed after 1/1/88 shall
connect within 60 months of the date of availability or by
•1/1/98, thus allowing a minimum of 6 years and up to 10 years
of useful service life for those systems.
6. Regardless of the above allowances, the sewer must be
connected upon any sale of the property served with sewer.
7. All properties regardless of connection status, start
paying-the quarterly sewer charge at the end of the 16 month
standard connection period.
Shaw asked If he has a double mound septic system, but is currently
only using one,of those, would he be allowed to switch to use the
remaining one before required to hookup.
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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DeMeo said he has a non - conforming system, but it will only cost
a couple hundred dollars to bring it into conformance. He asked
if that would fall under the 5 year hookup scenario.
Gaffron stated that would have to be a policy decision whether or
not the Council would allow updates to the current,septic system
to allow additional usage of that system.
Jabbour felt that if the property doesn't need sewer, the issue
should not be pushed.
Mike McLaughlin, 180 Leaf Street, asked what selling his home had
to do with the quality of the septic system. He said he has a large
lot and does not need the sewer. He explained that he built the
house 5 years ago and was told at that time that sewer would not
be available to that property.
Bob Minkemna 3200 Bayside Road, felt that the quarterly service
charge to residents not hooked up is ridiculous.
Linda Whitman said that the I i fe of a septic system is based in
part on the usage of the residents and maintenance. She would
prefer the Council establish a deadline for hookup when the system
fai Is.
Gaffron asked if properties using holding tanks would be required
to hookup immediately.
Jabbour said they should be required to hookup right away. Mayor
Peterson agreed.
Gaffron said the reason for suggesting that properties be required
to hookup upon a sale was because many parcels in this area are
sold on a Contract for Deed which do not involve a mortgage
company.
Knight asked what date is the deadline based upon.
Butler informed him that it is taken from the date of final
completion of the project.
It was moved by Mayor Peterson, seconded by Butler, to determine
that upon completion of the project, all parcels with a failing
system shall connect immediately and all parcels determined to have
a non - conforming system including a system too close to a creek or
lake shall connect within 16 months, and ail other parcels are
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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required to connect to sewer within 60 months unless deemed to have
a failing system prior to that date. Ayes 5, nays 0.
Mayor Peterson said she has a hard time agreeing with Condition #7.
Kuehn said the charge is a sewer availability charge which is equal
to the quarterly billing, which has been established by ordinance.
Jabbour felt that amount should be established based on money
needed for maintenance.
Barrett reviewed that the Council was only making policy decisions
on the project and would eventually need to amend the ordinances.
He stated the availability charge may have fiscal consequences if
deleted.
Bob Provo, 220 Cygnet Place, asked if the $50.00,septic inspection
fee would still be charged.
Mayor Peterson clarified that it would not be_ charged to parcels
connected..
011ie Peterson asked how many years they would be paying on the
.assessment.
Mayor Peterson explained the assessment is set for 15 years at 8 %.
Moorse explained that if the City gets a better interest rate, the
cost of the project could be reduced.
Mayor Peterson called for a recess from 8:30 p.m. to 8:55 p.m.
Knight referred the Bederwood area residents to the Council for
direct dialogue. He clarified that he was. never critical of the
Council offering to pay 30% of the project up front. He stated the
group he represents is willing to settle for an assessment of
$10,500.00. He informed members of his group that at some point
they would need to decide whether or not they wished to appeal.
He stated they have determined the fair amount for the assessment
"based upon the cost of a new septic system.
Linda Whitman informed the Council that the Bederwood group wished
to be excluded from Mr. Knight's group, and they wished to be a
part of the project. She expressed appreciation for the extension
of time for hookup. She stated the Bederwood residents wished to
retain their right to appeal.
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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Jabbour said he did not understand now that it has been determined
that the sewer needs to run down the street on Oxford Road, why the
residents should be assessed more as they do not derive a greater
benefit than other areas similar in appraised value to this area.
Cook stated that the street replacement is the major cost. He
noted the failing system could have been served by running the line
across private property.
Jabbour asked how the City could perceive a greater benefit for
properties on Oxford Road than on Bederwood where there are 2 acre
lots also.
Cook explained there is more street to replace on Oxford Road.
Butler asked Cook if the Oxford Road portion of the trunk could be
installed adjacent to the road on an easement across the front
yards.
Cook explained that the equipment would still damage the road. He
stated the homeowners would have to agree to a lesser road, which
they have indicated would not be acceptable.
It was moved by Jabbour, seconded by Goetten, to adopt the
assessment roil for the Stubbs Bay Sewer Project for ail properties
excluding Cygnet Place, Oxford Road and Leaf Street. Ayes 5, nays
0.
It was moved by Callahan, seconded by Jabbour, to adopt the
remaining assessment roll for the Stubbs Bay Sewer Project for
properties on Cygnet Place, Oxford Road and Leaf Street. Ayes 3,
nays 2. Mayor Peterson and Butler voted nay. (Motion failed based
on the requirement for a 4 /5ths vote.)
Callahan felt that the trunk charge should be assessed to
properties not 100% included in the project, and it was indicated
by those residents that they wish to be included all or nothing.
Butler explained she voted nay because at the last meeting Mr.
Deterling reminded the Council of a petition with almost 100%
opposition to the project. She felt they should be charged for the
trunk charge and said that at some time in the future they may need
to have service and would then have to pay the remainder.
Mayor Peterson felt that Mr. Knight's group should be allowed
additional time to consider the project.
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Knight asked if the current trunk charge -of $5,650.00 would also
be reduced by the 30% proposed to be paid by the City.
Jabbour stated that the 30% was only offered for 100%
participation.
Goetten reminded them that a future Council may choose not to
discount the remaining amount.
Callahan stated that if the trunk charge is assessed, that area
would need to be made a part of a full project. He noted that the
residents have the 30 day appeal time to further study the project.
Jabbour explained that the Council has proceeded with its best
offer•and would not sreduce the assessment. He stated that it is
expected to cost.the City approximately $18,000.00 per house per
appeal.
Goetten noted that the Council is concerned about the health,
safety.and welfare of the residents and stated that if that is the
criteria for sewering an area, she hated to exclude anyone because
of the cost.
Jabbour suggested they order the project to begin, and if at the
end of the 30 day appeal period it is determined that there are too
many appeals.., drop that portion of the project.
It was moved by Butler, seconded by Callahan, to assess the trunk
charge to the properties on Cygnet Place, Leaf Street and Oxford
Road. Ayes 3, nays 2. Mayor Peterson and Goetten voted nay.
Motion failed.
Butler explained that when the trunk line is laid along Bayside
Road, it will present itself at the corner of Leaf Street and
County Road 84, which w i l l make it available for connection for the
properties on Oxford Road, Leaf Street and Cygnet Place. She felt
that because of that availability, the trunk charge should be
assessed to those,properties.
Goetten felt that by doing such would be doing the citizens in that
area a great disservice.
D'eterling clarified that since the -submittal of the petition
expressing opposition, the cost has been reduced, the DNR has
imposed restric =tive regulations, and many feel that sewer is
inevitable.
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MINUTES OF-THE CONTINUATION OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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Butler stated that Deter IIng reminded the Council at the last
meeting of the petition.
Gaffron clarified that Baysi.de East includes Leaf Street up to the'
Luce Line. Cygnet includes and the portion of Leaf north of the
Luce Line.
Deterling noted that since that meeting, many have had a change of
heart.
Cathy St Lawrence, 253 Cygnet Place, said that since she signed
the petition the situation has changed, and said they would like
to be a part of the project.
Brian Ehalt, 140 Leaf Street, asked if his wife's name could be
removed from the petition. He suggested City staff review each
system on Cygnet Place and let people know how their system is
doing.
Gaffron said he would be'happy to meet with the owners to discuss
their system.
Cleo Bloomingdale,' 145 Cygnet Place, noted they had signed the
petition but the situation has changed drastically since then and
have since decided they wish to be included with the project. She
stated that the price of the service is not equitable.
Pat Crane noted at the last meeting a vast majority of those, In
attendance wanted sewer but objected to the price. He felt that
the Counc 1 1 has gotten i tse I f i nto a box by expand i ng upon the base
price and adding the lateral cost to additional areas.
Jabbour explained that the assessment was based upon an appraisal
of what would hold in court. The appraisal was done on a
neighborhood basis.
Crane said his house is on the other side of Leaf Street. The
other side of the street is being assessed $8,800 and he is being
assessed $13,000. He felt this is unfair. He stated the entire
area should have been assessed one unit price per household to be
fair.
Jabbour indicated that there would be no way in court to defend
that type of assessment as the small house on Lake Street is not
worth as much nor does it have as much potential as the homes on
larger lots.
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MINUTES OF THE CONTINUATIOW OF THE STUBBS BAY ASSESSMENT HEARING
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Moorse explained that they also charged areas costs specific to
that area.
It•was moved-by Jabbour, seconded by Goetten, to adopt Resolution
#3121 approving the entire assessment roll as proposed for. the
Stubbs Bay Sewer Project., Ayes 4, nays 1. Mayor Peterson voted
n-ay. Motion passed.
Barrett explained that owners may need to be renotified to amend
the roll at the end of the 30 day appeal period if determined that
the roll will change.
ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Mayor Peterson, seconded by Butler, to adjourn the
Continuation of the Public Hearing for the Stubbs Bay Assessment
at 9:45 p.m. Ayes 5, nays 0.
Barbara A. Peter on, Mayor
ATT T: /
0 othy M aIIIn, City Clerk
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