HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/15/2014 Planning Commission Minutes MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
ROLL CALL
The Orono Planning Commission met on the above-mentioned date with the following members present:
Chair Denise Leskinen, Commissioners Kevin Landgraver,Bruce Lemke,Loren Schoenzeit,John
Thiesse and Alternate Commissioner Janice Berg. Representing Staff were Community Director Andrew
Mack, Senior Planner Michael Gaffron, City Planner Melanie Curtis, and Recorder Jackie Young. City
Council Member Levang was present. Commissioner McGrann arrived at 7:15 p.m.
Chair Leskinen called the meeting to order at 6:34 p.m., followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
CONSENT AGENDA
Landgraver moved,Berg seconded, to approve the Consent Agenda as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 6,
Nays 0.
*1. APPROVAL OF PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF AUGUST 18,
2014
Landgraver moved,Berg seconded,to approve the minutes of the Orono Planning Commission
meeting of August 18,2014, as submitted. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
NEW BUSINESS
2. #14-3682 JAMES AND MARGARET KELLY, 1855 CONCORDIA STREET,AFTER-
THE-FACT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, 6:37 P.M.—7:05 P.M.
James and Margaret Kelly, Applicants, were present.
Curtis stated earlier this year the applicants began conducting improvements to their home and property at
1855 Concordia Street. The improvements included vegetation removal in the yard areas, grading of the
yard areas,removal of a wooden walkway along the southwest side of the house and installation of a new
boulder wall. The applicants received permits for removal of three trees greater than six inches within the
Page 1 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
75-foot setback but,however,began conducting the site work before applying for and obtaining permits
for land alterations and wall installation. As a result, a stop work order was issued.
Staff and the City's engineer met with the applicants and their contractor on site a number of times in an
attempt to gain an understanding of their intended plan to remove vegetation and conduct some minor
land alterations to level the yard preparing for sod. An after-the-fact administrative zoning permit was
issued based on discussions with the property owners. As the work progressed,it seemed the grading
work exceeded the limits of the administrative permit. In addition,it appears more trees within the 75-
foot setback had been cut. Another stop work order was posted.
Without a survey detailing the previous conditions of the property,it is nearly impossible to accurately
calculate the total amount of the disturbance. However,the City Engineer's visual observations at the
beginning of the process when Staff inspected the site to the most recent activity estimates the clearing
and movement on the site to exceed ten cubic yards,which is the administrative level.
At this time the applicants are requesting an after-the-fact conditional use permit approval to complete the
land alteration activities within 75 feet of the lake. The boulder wall under construction is located outside
of the 75-foot setback and therefore does not result in an increase in hardcover. The applicants have
provided a suggested landscape plan.
Conditionally permitted uses must be reviewed using the criteria found in the zoning code. The drainage
patterns created by the grading plan for the site should not cause an increase in runoff impacting the
adjacent properties. The City Engineer has provided comments and states that a revised grading plan
should be provided which addresses his concerns. In addition,the resulting grade should allow for
continuation of a drainage swale that has existed between the applicants' property and the property to the
north historically.
Approval of the conditional use permit for the proposed grading should be limited to the minimal amount
necessary to create their level yard and should not have an impact on surrounding lands. The grading
activity has appeared to result in the removal of additional mature trees in the lake yard and may have
induced stress to some of the remaining trees. Removal of loss of the mature trees may result in a
Page 2 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
property which appears to be out of character with the surrounding area. The applicants' landscape plan
does not adequately address lost trees and overall vegetation cleared from the site.
Curtis stated the proposed use of the property as a residential property will not be changing as a result of
the proposed grading activity and there should be no change in the use and enjoyment of adjacent
properties. The proposed grading on this lot should be designed to minimize any environmental impacts.
Much of the grading activity has already been conducted. This activity may have resulted in the current
or future loss of mature vegetation on the property. The applicants have provided a landscape plan but
additional lakeshore buffer areas may be necessary as well as some screening vegetation from the lake
and neighboring properties.
The Planning Commission should read the correspondence from the neighbor that was included within
the Staff report. The neighbor also is present at tonight's meeting.
Planning Staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit for the land alterations within the 75-
foot setback area conditioned upon the following:
1. A revised grading plan should be submitted to address all requirements of the City Engineer;
2. A revised landscape plan should be submitted which provides for replacement o the two
additional trees removed, increased vegetative screening from neighboring properties,and a 10-
foot to 15-foot lakeshore planting buffer;
3. Conformance with the City Engineer's comments will be required.
The Planning Commission had no questions for Staff.
Jim Kelly,Applicant, stated this is a house they intend to either remodel or rebuild at some point in the
future. Kelly indicated the first 75 feet of the lot was all weeds,poison ivy and a bee problem. Kelly
stated when they purchased the property,they did not realize they needed a permit in order to smooth out
the grade and put down sod. Kelly indicated they did not want to spend a lot of money on the project and
that it was basically just a sod and irrigation project.
Page 3 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Kelly stated there were only three trees that were greater than six inches that were removed that were
deemed unsafe. Those trees,prior to removal,were inspected and approved by the City. There were also
three trees that were well below six inches that were removed because they were unsafe. One of those
trees was dead and was approximately 20 feet tall.
Kelly stated they are asking for the ability to lay sod and to construct a swale to allow the water to be
diverted. Kelly indicated one wall was covered with water and covered with mold,which was improved
by covering it. The$800 that was paid for the initial permit for the grading was not followed by the
contractor and he was fired. Kelly indicated the contractor they had hired cut too far into the side hill and
broke off one of the trees and the other two were killed as a result of the work, which will be replaced.
In addition,the contractor did not follow the directions down by the lake. Kelly stated it was supposed to
be the exact same grade going toward the lake, and that when they started the grading process,there were
some conversations on whether the water would potentially run into the neighbor's yard. The City
Engineer met with the bobcat operator and decided that a swale would be constructed so the water would
be diverted toward the lake. During the grading, an 3' x 8' area was raised by almost six inches down by
• the lake,which will be removed. Kelly stated it was not their intention to cause any change in the grade
but to make it smooth so that a riding lawn mower could be ridden safety in that area.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 6:44 p.m.
Jeff Tridwell, 1865 Concordia Street, stated he had something happen a few years back in their
neighborhood with a different property down the road where there was intense clear cutting done over the
weekend. Tridwell stated if you go out on West Arm and look at the point from a boat,there is a clear cut
lot with massive excavation and no trees on the lot,which stands out like a sore thumb.
Tridwell stated this is their neighborhood and that many of the other residents on the point have been
there more than 20 years.Tridwell stated their goal has always been to preserve the character of the
neighborhood,which is known as Fagerness Woods, and to preserve the lakeshore. Tridwell stated he
wants to make sure that everyone follows the same rules.
Page 4 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Tridwell stated his questions relate to what the ordinances are that have been broken that a variance is
now being requested for and that he would also like to know what the Minnehaha Creek Watershed
District had to say about that 0-75 foot zone. Tridwell stated the property had dense vegetation in the area
by the lake, which has now been removed.
Curtis displayed pictures of the different properties on the lake.
Tridwell pointed out his property and the applicants' property. Tridwell indicated he has no problem with
clearing out some of the trees in order to get a good view of the lake,but that there was a lot of work done
within the buffer zone near the lake and that he would like to know what is being done to address that.
Leskinen asked if he would like to know what the exact ordinance is.
Tridwell stated what he is hearing is that the applicants are requesting an after-the-fact variance for the
work that has already been done and that he is interested in knowing what the rationale is for the variance.
Curtis stated what is being requested is a conditional use permit,which is slightly different than the
process that Mr.Tridwell went through for his home. Curtis stated conditional uses are permitted uses
that the City can place conditions upon. The applicants are allowed to do the list of items in the Code that
are permitted conditionally but there is extra scrutiny put upon those uses and the applicants do not have
to prove a practical difficulty or a hardship.
Tridwell asked if the Watershed District has weighed in on this matter given the runoff into the lake and
other issues associated with the work near the shoreline.
Curtis stated the Watershed District has visited the property and has notified the property owner of the
permitting requirements for different soil disturbances and soil erosion control. Curtis stated to her
understanding the applicants are in the middle of the permitting process.
Kelly indicated they paid the$10 permit fee. Kelly noted they did not change the grade of the lot and that
they are smoothing out the grade so they can lay sod down.
Page 5 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Leskinen requested the applicant address the Planning Commission.
Kelly stated the bobcat guy they hired moved dirt within the 0-75 feet while they were away at a baseball
tournament. Kelly stated he is fine with following the directions of the City Engineer and that the bobcat
operator has been fired. Kelly indicated the Watershed District is not involved because they are not
proposing to change the grade of the lot.Kelly stated the grade had three foot dips in places,which made
it impossible to mow. Kelly indicated they basically smoothed the grade out so they can lay sod and that
one of the reasons they purchased the property was for the trees.
Tridwell asked how the work would be monitored. Tridwell indicated he has a concern about trees that
have been damaged, including some on his lot, and that he wanted to bring his concerns to the Planning
Commission.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 6:53 p.m.
Landgraver stated based on Staff recommendations, a revised grading and landscape plan is required
replacing the trees that have been removed. Landgraver asked if the applicant is okay with Staff's
recommendations.
Kelly stated they intend to remove and replace the two trees that were removed and that they will likely
plant some more spruce trees. Kelly stated all they ever asked for was the ability to smooth out the grade
so they can lay sod.
Landgraver asked if he is okay with vegetative screening
Kelly indicated they are in agreement with Staff on how to do the work down at the shoreline. Kelly
noted one side of the property near the lakeshore is completely weeds and that it is their intent to plant
vegetation all along there.
Landgraver noted there is a 10 to 15-foot lakeshore planting buffer.
Kelly stated they will be doing the work as shown on the revised landscape plan.
Page 6 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Landgraver asked what the City Engineer's comments are regarding the work.
Curtis stated Staff currently has a previous survey and an existing conditions survey,which is mid
project. The City Engineer had questions on the existing topography plan and Staff would like to see
some tweaks to the plan to make it acceptable.
Landgraver asked if the applicant is in agreement with all of Staff's recommendations.
Kelly indicated he has not seen the tweaks but that he is sure they can meet those.
Leskinen noted the work is half done and that she is troubled by the fact that the work continued even
after a stop work order had been issued.
Kelly stated that work was not something they approved and was one of the reasons he was fired.
Leskinen stated she would be in agreement with including all of the City Engineer's comments in the
motion.
Leskinen noted the applicants will be replacing some of the trees, and asked whether the Planning
Commission can make any recommendations regarding the damage to the neighbor's tree.
Curtis stated it would be a property owner issue,but that if the Planning Commission has additional
recommendations for what happens along the lot lines,they can make those recommendations.
Leskinen stated replacing the trees that were taken down should be done.
Kelly stated the trees were not taken down but are dead. Kelly indicated they did not want the wall cut
that close in and that the contractor disturbed the trees and they died.
Curtis stated Staff is proposing the number of replacement trees based on the stumps shown in the survey.
Berg asked if Staffs recommendation is to replant the two trees that are dead.
Page 7 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Curtis stated she has photographs from the site and from the neighbor depicting the vegetation. Curtis
stated she is not able to identify from the photographs the location of the stumps,but if the
recommendation of the Planning Commission is to replace certain trees lakeward of the house,that should
be included in the motion.
Leskinen stated she does not know what type of vegetation to recommend for along the lakeshore outside
of native plantings.
Lemke stated Staff's recommendation is submittal of a revised landscape plan.
Landgraver stated the neighbor has expressed some concerns and that Staff's recommendations are
responsive to those. Landgraver commented he is glad the two neighbors are talking and attempting to
resolve the situation.
Landgraver moved, Schoenzeit seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 14-3682,
James and Margaret Kelly, 1855 Concordia Street, granting of an after-the-fact conditional use
permit,subject to Staff's recommendations outlined on Page 4 of Staff's report dated
September 10,2014. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
3. #14-3683 IRWIN JACOBS, 1700 SHORELINE DRIVE,AND RODNEY BURWELL, 1100
MILLSTON ROAD,LOT LINE REARRANGEMENT,7:05 P.M.—7:07 P.M.
Irwin Jacobs and Rodney Burwell, Applicants, were present.
Curtis stated this application contemplates a lot line rearrangement between the two properties at 1700
Shoreline Drive and 1100 Millston Road. The applicants are requesting approval to transfer a 2.52 acre
portion of the Jacobs property to the Burwell property located at 1100 Millston Road. The lots exceed the
minimum lot widths and areas for the LR1-A zoning district and will continue to do so with the lot line
rearrangement. The lot lines have been adjusted such that the existing buildings on each side of the line
Page 8 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
will be conforming with respect to setbacks. The septic systems on both lots will not be impacted. The
applicants will be required to provide new legal descriptions for recording of the deeds.
Staff recommends approval of the request.
Mike Stedman, Real Estate Agent, stated he represents Mr. Jacobs and that they have met with Staff and
have met all of Staff's recommendations.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 7:05 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 7:05 p.m.
Leskinen stated she had no problem with the application since the properties are large enough to support
the change and will not create any new nonconformities.
Lemke moved, Schoenzeit seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 14-3683, Irwin
Jacobs, 1700 Shoreline Drive, and Rodney Burwell, 1100 Millston Road, granting of a lot line
rearrangement. VOTE: Ayes 6,Nays 0.
4. #14-3686 DAVID DELANEY,2500 BLOCK OF KELLY AVENUE (PID 20-117-23-11-
0032) COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, 7:07 P.M.—8:57 P.M.
David Delaney,Applicant,and John Bessesen,Developer, were present.
Andrew Mack stated before the Planning Commission tonight are two requests. The first request is for a
minor Comprehensive Plan Amendment to re-guide the property for single-family residential to single-
family attached residential. The second request is for approval of a Residential Planned Unit
Development. Mack stated following publication of the notice and a re-examination of the City's Code,
Staff has determined that the request is not for a Planned Residential Development but actually should be
Page 9 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
classified as an RPUD. Due to that change, instead of a conditional use permit being required,the request
would require a MAP amendment and that his report incorrectly calls it a PRD.
Mack stated the proposal involves a 4.6 acre vacant parcel of land which fronts on Kelly Avenue. The
applicant is proposing to develop the property for five twin homes, which would include ten single-family
attached dwelling units on an individual tax parcel.
Mack indicated the diagram in the lower right-hand corner shows a bird's eye view of the site. The
development would include a private street coming in off of Kelly Avenue just south of the Lund's
building and would be basically opposite from some single-family townhomes. The driveway would
come up the hillside with five pad sites established on the top of the hillside with a hammerhead
turnaround up at the very southeast end of the improvements proposed for the site.
In addition,the site includes a slab on grade level elevation for two units. The units would be a single
story with a pitched roof design with a full basement. To the rear of the units,there would be walkouts,
which will create essentially a two-story appearance facing Kelly Avenue. Mack stated the 4.6 acres goes
up to the property on Shadywood Road and fronts along Kelly Avenue. The property is currently
undeveloped. Within this area there is approximately a half-acre wetland that has been delineated along
the street. A portion of the remainder of the site is encumbered by a flowage and conservation easement.
Mack noted the diagram on the overhead is from a 1981 subdivision that divided the property on
Shadywood and this parcel. The front parcel remained commercially zoned and the other site was zoned
LR-1B.
Mack indicated the wetland is located in the southeast portion of the parcel. Approximately half of the
site consists of a flowage and conservation easement and was a requirement as part of the plat approval in
1981. Mack indicated a restriction was placed on the site to basically encompass a larger area than just
the wetland since there was not a clear understanding back in 1981 on how to clearly define wetlands.
The easterly 60 feet along the property line was not included in the easement and was reserved for a
private driveway into the site. Mack noted that area is lower in elevation than the location where the
applicant has proposed the driveway in the northwest portion of the site.
Page 10 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
In addition,there are a large number of mature trees on the site,including a large variety of deciduous
trees and substantial undergrowth. Mack noted preservation of all this existing vegetation is a
requirement contained within the flowage and conservation easement. Staff views the woods within the
flowage and conservation easement as an area that should be preserved as much as possible as part of the
RPUD process.
Mack noted the applicants were previously before the Planning Commission in March with a concept
plan. The concept plan presented in March was more favorably received by the Planning Commission
than the original concept plan. At Staff's recommendation,the developer provided a 3-dimensional
representation of how the five twin home units would appear on the landscape.
Mack indicated the City's adopted Comprehensive Community Management plan for the Navarre area
has guided this area for some form of higher density housing, while at the same time preserving the
opportunity for a more intensive commercial/retail/residential mix further to the north along Shadywood
Road. The applicant's proposal better serves this intent by reducing an earlier concept of a much higher
density townhome development encompassing land all the way from Kelly Avenue to Shadywood Road.
Mack stated some other factors to consider would be whether one acre lots should be required,whether all
the units should be detached single-family homes, and setbacks. Mack stated the approach to a more
conservation design of the site improvements makes a lot of sense for this property.
Mack noted a number of comments were received from the neighbors regarding the project and basically
relate to access to the site, flooding in the area,preservation of the trees and wetland area, and drainage
issues. Additional comments were received today in the form of e-mails that have been placed in front of
the Planning Commission. Mack noted a portion of Kelly Avenue was required to be closed for a period
of time this year due to flooding issues.
Mack indicated as a result of that input from the neighbors,he had an opportunity last Friday to visit the
area. Mack stated if you go all the way up to what would be essentially the southeast corner of the
property, which is the approximate location of the driveway,there is an inlet that accepts water. Mack
explained the water comes out of the street area, goes further down to the south, and then fills up a larger
wetland area. Once the area fills up,there is an inlet that goes underneath Kelly Avenue and then outlets
into another wetland complex. Mack stated it appears so far that system is working pretty good based on
Page 11 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
an analysis by the Public Works Department but that it appears the problem with the system is at 2525
Kelly with a 15-inch culvert located under the private driveway that has completely collapsed.
Mack stated Staff believes that collapsed culvert has resulted in the water backing up and that the City is
taking efforts right now to see that the culvert is replaced. The drainage further continues to the south
into another wetland complex. Mack indicated there is an inlet that is sending water underneath Carman
Street,around the second house from the corner, and then into the lagoon. Mack stated that pipe is still
flowing but it is an older clay tile line and also needs replacing and perhaps a further engineering analysis
to ensure that proper drainage is achieved. Mack stated the Public Works Department is well aware of the
situation and will hopefully be taking steps this fall to replace the culvert.
Staff recommends approval of the following:
1. Minor Comprehensive Plan Amendment to approve property guided for single-family detached
residences at a density of two to three units per acre to single-family twin homes.
2. A conditional use permit to allow development and construction of five twin homes via the
Planned Residential District process, subject to the following conditions:
a. A landscape plan shall be submitted with the final development plan application which
provides a substantial coniferous replanting plan along the south side of the new twin home
structures.
b. The twin home structure shall be located no closer than 40 feet to the east property line and the
private drive shall be located no closer than 20 feet to the east property line.
c. The applicant shall submit a final development plan which is required to preserve all existing
mature trees and underbrush on the property and which maintains all undisturbed land not
approved for site grading and improvement in its natural state
d. The development shall be prohibited from any type of subdivision, entryway signage on Kelly
Avenue except for an approved private street name sign.
Page 12 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
e. The dead-end turn-arounds design at the end of the private street shall be subject to final
design approval of the Fire Chief.
f. If a reduced private street improvement width is proposed and approved for less than the
standard 28 feet minimum and which includes available off-street bump-out visitor parking areas,
then on-street parallel parking shall be prohibited along both sides of the private roadway. Signs
restricting such parking shall be installed and maintained by the homeowner association if needed
to assure full access to all dwellings by emergency personnel.
Mack noted Staff's findings are contained within the report. As part of this review,discussions have been
held with Staff and the City Attorney as to whether or not the ability exists to perhaps add the ability to
modify the location of the driveway. Mack stated in Staff's opinion,the idea of modifying the flowage
and conservation easement in some respect to actually allow the private road on much higher ground
would make more sense than the location proposed by the applicants but that additional work would be
required by the City Attorney to modify that easement.
Leskinen asked if the current underlying zoning on the property is one acre.
Mack indicated that is correct.
Berg asked where Staff is suggesting the private driveway be relocated.
Mack displayed the recent survey of the property on the overhead. Mack indicated the driveway would
be sixty feet from the southeastern corner of the property.
Berg asked if Staff is proposing to move it down to the property line.
Mack stated the applicant is proposing to bring the road up to the top of the hill site in a location away
from the lot line. Mack stated essentially the driveway would come in almost directly opposite the
townhome driveway on the other side of the street. Mack noted the new location is not the layout before
the Planning Commission tonight.
Page 13 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Lemke asked if the road into the development meets all the requirements of the fire department. Lemke
stated the turnaround does not seem to be very useable.
Mack stated the fire chief was included in on the predevelopment meeting. Mack stated as part of the
concept plan,to the extent possible the hardcover would be minimized on the site and that private drive
would be made as narrow as possible with on-street parking prohibited. Mack indicated the road would
be wide enough to allow two cars side by side and the only on-street parking would be in the bumpouts.
Mack stated there would be enough parking in each driveway for six to eight vehicles.
Lemke asked if the stub-out would be for parking.
Mack stated that would be for emergency turnaround only.
Lemke asked if a vast majority of the trees on the site would be removed.
Mack stated as it relates to tree removal, it would be isolated to the pad sites and the road. Mack
indicated there would still be an area north of the road that could be kept for screening and buffering from
the site to the north. Mack pointed out the area that would be preserved.
Berg asked if the majority of the trees overlooking Kelly would be removed and whether there would be
trees left behind the units.
Mack indicated the trees overlooking Kelly would be removed and the trees in the back of the units would
remain.
Berg asked if the zoning allows for four single-family homes given the size of the site.
Mack stated that is correct.
Thiesse asked if it was guided to a greater density.
Page 14 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Mack stated it is guided for single-family detached residential. The City's Comprehensive Plan in general
for this area of Navarre does call out the need for additional density but it is not specifically directed
towards this site.
Schoenzeit noted there are two townhomes with higher density located across the street.
Landgraver asked if there are four separate homes were built,whether they would have a shared
driveway.
Gaffron stated he would envision two driveways with each serving two homes. Gaffron stated if three
homes share a driveway, it requires a roadway.
Mack stated with regard to the easement in the place, it would prevent driveways from going into that
area.
Leskinen asked if this application would not require more than a minor comprehensive plan since it is
higher density. Leskinen asked if the underlying zoning would be rezoned.
Mack stated that is the correction that he spoke about earlier and that the site would need to be rezoned.
Mack indicated the Comprehensive Plan language only talks about the PRD being used for detached
homes.
Schoenzeit asked how many acres the two townhomes are located on.
Gaffron stated there is a lot of area between the units and the lake, and that he would approximate it at
two to three acres.
McGrann asked if the zoning for the townhomes would be the same as this development.
Mack indicated it would be.
Gaffron stated it was done as a Planned Residential Development in the 1980s.
Page 15 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
John Bessesen,Developer, stated the reason he got involved with this project is that he was interested in
doing some condominium/commercial development up by the church. Bessesen indicated they looked at
a number of options that would allow them to put as much density as possible on the site while at the
same time preserving the trees as much as possible. Bessesen indicated they looked at where the existing
easement is for the driveway,how many trees would be lost, and how much the terrain would need to be
cut in. Bessesen indicated the property behind the Lund's store slopes gradually and goes up towards the
top of the ridge and that they wanted to put the twin homes up towards the top of the property towards the
commercial area as much as possible.
Bessesen indicated there are a number of people in his neighborhood and around the lake who are older
and would like to downsize, so he thought this would be a good spot for some empty nesters. Bessesen
indicated with a development for that age group,there usually is not a lot of traffic and they have a desire
for a smaller yard,which would help preserve the trees. In addition, it was felt that development of this
property would be a great opportunity to create a buffer between the single-family homes and the
commercial area located to the rear of this site.
Bessesen indicated the footprint of the units would be approximately 1,600 square feet per unit,which is
fairly small, and that he tried to line the road up between this piece of property and the townhomes across
the street. Bessesen indicated he also purchased the piece of property next to the townhomes and that it
was developed for the house that currently sits there. Bessesen indicated he had to purchase that property
from the association and as part of that negotiation gave the owners covered dock slips. Bessesen stated
he spoke with the owner of that property last night and he indicated that he would not be able to really see
the development. The rest of the homes along Kelly would not be able to see the development.
Bessesen stated he is looking at approximately$650,000 per unit and that in his view there is a market for
that.
Tom Waslow, Architect, stated the whole area that is in the conservation easement would be fenced in
during the project so that no construction activity would disturb that area. Waslow noted this is a
preliminary plan and that there are still some engineering issues that will need to be worked out. Waslow
stated work is presently being done on a tree inventory and that they will take steps to protect as many
trees as possible as well as the underbrush.
Page 16 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Waslow stated as mentioned earlier by Mr. Bessesen,by moving the driveway up to the north side of the
site, it will cause less disturbance to the trees and that they can minimize the road width by providing
some visitor parking at each unit. Waslow indicated each resident will have two stalls as well as a
driveway that would allow two cars to be parked there. The units themselves would be a combination of
the first floor with a great room, master bedroom suite and laundry. The lower level would consist of a
family room and guest bedrooms.
McGrann asked what the height of the units would be on the back side as you are looking up from Kelly.
Waslow stated given the way the grade falls and the fact that the units would have a walkout basement, it
would be approximately 18 feet to the eave line for some of the units and 15 to 16 feet on the other units.
Waslow stated they do not want to change the grade very much.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 7:45 p.m.
Judy Fredrickson, 2507 Kelly Avenue, stated she respects the right of a property owner to develop their
property,but at the same time her comments are around the fact that that right should not affect others in
a negative way and be at their expense. Fredrickson noted a number of neighbors are in attendance
tonight, and that she is also here on behalf of Christine and Dave Hardten,Mark Schmidt and Jim Depo
who were not able to attend tonight. Fredrickson indicated Mr. Mack has been very courteous to talk to
and responded promptly to questions.
Fredrickson stated it was a huge deal for them to purchase their house, which happens to be the one with
the turnaround built by the City. Fredrickson indicated they used to live in Shorewood and that house
sold for less than $600,000. Fredrickson reiterated that it was a very big deal for them to move to Kelly
Avenue and live on the lake. At the time they were considering moving to Orono, Fredrickson indicated
they went to the City and asked what could happen with the wetlands directly across the street.
Fredickson noted the proposed development is directly across from their property. Fredrickson indicated
they were told that no construction could happen because it was all wetlands and that they strongly
believe this project will affect the property values in the neighborhood.
Page 17 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Fredrickson stated her first comment would be that they would prefer the City only approve single-family
homes and not a multi-family concept,which would be in keeping with the majority of the homes on
Kelly Avenue. Fredrickson noted they are very expensive homes and pay a considerable amount in taxes.
Fredrickson stated she is not in agreement with the way it is written that separate driveways are required
for every single home and that she sees no reason why there cannot be a private drive going up to those
homes. Fredrickson noted the Locus Hills development in Wayzata is an extremely successful
development and that a number of the homes sold for$2 million plus, which demonstrates that there is a
way to develop a property without having two driveways for four homes.
Fredrickson stated they would have never purchased this house if they thought there would be multi-
family housing across the street and that she is adamantly opposed to the design as it stands today.
Fredrickson stated a number of the neighbors feel the same way.
Fredrickson stated Kelly Avenue is a quiet street and that they would also like to request that some
thought be given to rerouting the entrance to Shadywood,which is a property that is owned by Mr.
Delaney. Fredrickson stated while she knows that property is currently zoned commercial,perhaps an
easement could be obtained to allow a private drive to access the subject property, which would
completely eliminate the traffic issue for the residents on Kelly Avenue.
Fredrickson stated the proposed access across Kelly goes across a wetland. Fredrickson noted the
document in the packet shows the wetlands,which has been expanded from the plan that was presented
earlier. The map from the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District shows that the wetlands extend from the
back of Lund's all the way down the road, and if the entrance came in on Shadywood, it would not have
to affect a single piece of the wetland.
Fredrickson stated another concern is flooding and that Kelly Avenue currently experiences flooding to
the point where the road is completely flooded out and people cannot drive on it. Fredrickson indicated
there were homeowners that could not reach their homes for three weeks and that people were canoeing
down Kelly. Fredrickson stated she cannot imagine how bad it will be if the lot is clear cut and build
these big twin homes at the top of the hill. Fredrickson stated she would ask that the City construct good
quality roads so the residents can drive to their houses before they would ever entertain adding another
Page 18 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
five units. Fredrickson stated they do not have a road that is accessible throughout the year even though
the City knew about the flooding problems last year. Fredrickson noted pictures of the flooding have
been included in the Planning Commission's packet.
Fredrickson stated the other issue she would like to raise is safety and that the entrance as it is proposed is
in a dangerous spot. Fredrickson noted at Kelly and County Road 15 is Lund's and that it is extremely
difficult to take a left onto Kelly Avenue or to get out of the Lund's parking lot As a result,what is
happening because of the huge traffic backup on the corner of County Roads 15 and 19 at the stoplight,
there are large trucks and people in cars that will take a quick cut on Kelly Avenue, driving all the way
down and taking either Lydia or Shadywood. Fredrickson indicated there are trucks going 50 miles an
hour down Kelly. Fredrickson stated what the City needs to know is that the residents on Kelly bought
into the idea of a quiet street. If ten families are added, even if they are retired,would add to the volume
of traffic and that there will be 20-plus cars going in and out, which does not include visitors.
Fredrickson stated the last issue is visibility of the development. Fredrickson indicated she looked at the
1981 Delaney agreement with the City of Orono and it says that no structure shall be constructed, erected
or placed upon this land, including,without limitation, fences,hardcover or roads of any nature or any
other structure or improvement inconsistent with the natural state of the land. No trees, shrubs or
vegetation shall be destroyed or removed from the land. Fredrickson stated she does not understand why
so many things need to be special about this development and that the agreement is something that the
Delaneys knew when they purchased the land.
Fredrickson stated she has talked to the majority of the neighbors and they do not want the project as
proposed. Fredrickson stated this is not just a piece of paper but their neighborhood.
Stewart Alger, Attorney-at-Law, stated he is here on behalf of the Fredricksons,Alex Ware, Gary and
Brian Schroeder,Brent Lindgren,Jim Schmidt, and Scott and Jill Wine. Alger stated he would like to
emphasize a couple of points. First of all,the neighbors would like the Planning Commission to deny the
application or at least extend the period in which the City will make a decision on this application so that
the neighbors have an opportunity to fully understand what is going on here and prepare their comments.
Alger stated in his view the Planning Commission will benefit from the residents' careful review and that
from the homeowners' perspective,the application is moving very fast.
Page 19 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Alger stated the neighbors have made investments in this area and that one of their reasonable
expectations when they made these investments is that the property across the road would be developed
following its zoning and guidance under the Comprehensive Plan. The Planning Commission is being
asked tonight to change both of those despite the expectations of the neighbors.
Alger noted one of the zoning requests is not properly before the Planning Commission since it is
different than what went out in the notice and the neighbors have not had an opportunity to discuss what
this development means for their neighborhood. Alger stated the details of the Comprehensive Plan
Amendment and what it would mean for development of this property needs further review. In addition,
the possibility of access off of Shadywood Road needs to be fully vetted as well as taking a closer look at
the conservation and flowage easement and how that easement will play into how this property would be
developed.
Alger stated what is being requested here is attached single-family homes rather than detached homes and
that it will be a higher density than what was guided for in the Comprehensive Plan. Alger stated there
will be more cars,more use of the roads,the development will have a negative impact on the value of the
neighboring properties and interferes with their reasonable expectations for what will occur as a result of
the development.
Alger requested the Planning Commission either deny the application or table it to allow the neighbors
time to thoroughly review the proposal.
Bob Ponzetti, 2545 Kelly Avenue, stated he is in agreement with the comments of Judy Fredrickson.
Ponzetti indicated the notice provided to the neighborhood simply listed a rezoning request and that
nobody was told that this specific Kelly Avenue project was going to be discussed and that they had no
idea that this was going on. Ponzetti stated it seems like a basic piece of information to provide what
exactly is being requested if the City is going to ask for comments.
Ponzetti provided a picture of Kelly Avenue under water this spring. Ponzetti stated the water was three
to four feet deep and that the flooding happens almost every spring. Ponzetti indicated 20 years ago it
was even worse and at that time the City talked about installing pumping stations. The City ended up
raising the road a couple of feet,which alleviated the problems for several years,but that the road is
Page 20 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
sinking. Ponzetti stated he is afraid that whatever is going to happen with this site is not going to make
the situation better since the development will have an additional impact on the wetlands and will
exacerbate the problem.
Ponzetti stated whenever he goes up to the corner of Kelly and County Road 15, it takes two to three
stoplights to take a right on to County Road 15. Ponzetti stated it is a terrible intersection, access is very
difficult,and adding more cars will make the situation worse. Ponzetti indicated he is very much against
the project.
Ken Heimbach,2525 Kelly Avenue,pointed out on the overhead the location of his property and the
deciduous trees. Heimbach noted he would be able to see the units six months out of the year. In
addition,there are four sloping driveways where the water comes down at once onto Kelly. By adding
more hardcover,the water will go down Kelly and make the situation worse. Heimbach stated he could
not get out of his driveway this spring due to the flooding.
Heimbach stated there was so much more information that came out tonight that the neighbors were not
aware of Heimbach stated the project is much more complex than he realized and that in addition to the •
water problems,there are all of these beautiful houses that appreciate the wetlands in the area and that the
City should not screw it all up.
Elizabeth Sedgwick indicated she is here tonight representing the owners of 2605 Kelly Avenue.
Sedgwick stated she would like to cite a conditional use permit that was granted in 1978, Conditional Use
Permit No. 6400056,by the City of Orono, Resolution No. 3517,which permitted the excavation and
creation of a Type III wetland involving the movement or exporting of approximately 600 cubic yards of
fill within the street easement of the property located at 2605 Kelly Avenue. Sedgwick stated in her
opinion the purpose of creating the wetland at that time 37 years ago was to provide a reservoir for storm
water runoff. Sedgwick stated it is known that Kelly Avenue has been flooding for quite some time.
Sedgwick indicated the photograph depicts a duck swimming down Kelly Avenue and that she thought
the pictures would provide a better idea of the flooding experienced on Kelly Avenue. The last picture
displays the entrance to the construction site at 2605 Kelly Avenue. Sedgwick indicated the flooding
affects not just her client but all the neighbors throughout the season. Sedgwick stated her clients have
Page 21 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
made an investment into their property with this new structure and that they have not been able to even
get to their property at times,which is quite alarming when you consider the fact that emergency vehicles
also could not get through the street.
Sedgwick stated with all due respect to Staff, she would like to point out that a culvert acts as a conduit,
and what it does is it carries water from one area to another area when it is functioning. Sedgwick stated
if the culvert is below grade with wetlands and flooding on either side of the road, fixing the collapsed
culvert is not the solution to the flooding. Sedgwick stated for 37 years since this CUP was created on
the property at 2605 Kelly Avenue for a Type IIII wetland,none of the temporary solutions have worked,
such as the raising of the road and the culvert.
Sedgwick noted it has been four or five months that the City has not had an on-staff engineer and that she
has a heightened interest and a great idea as to how this problem can be resolved,which can be discussed
at a future time.
Gary Schroeder,2565 Kelly Avenue, stated the flooding issue pretty much started when they constructed
Lund's and that the covering of the parking lot caused it. Schroeder indicates the water drains right down
Kelly Avenue and ends up in the street rather than draining. Schroeder stated the City of Orono has
attempted to address the water problems going back into the mid 1960s.
Schroeder stated the one thing that has not been brought up is the noise that is generated from the
intersection of County Road 19 and 15. If those trees are removed,the noise will increase. Schroeder
indicated the noise does increase in the winter when the deciduous trees fall but that there is not the traffic
in the winter like there is in the summer. Schroeder stated in his view the trees are a natural buffer zone.
Schroeder stated traffic is also a big problem and has been covered. As it relates to property values, if
multi-family dwellings are constructed, it will lower the property values that the residents have worked
hard to maintain for many years. Schroeder stated the Planning Commission should reject the argument
that four homes are harder to design in a spot where five are currently being proposed.
Schroeder noted the City of Orono does allow for shared driveways and that he has been sharing his
driveway since 1956,which works quite well.
Page 22 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Sandy Lindgren, 2501 Kelly Avenue, stated she is here on behalf of the Kelly Cove homeowners
association. Lindgren stated they would agree with the other comments expressed by the neighbors and
that the president of the homeowners association did send an e-mail last night or today that she would like
to be added to the record.
Lindgren stated she just found out that the roadway will be right by her driveway and that she does not
want that any more than the other neighbors do given the safety concerns. Lindgren stated making a left
turn off of Kelly in the morning is almost impossible.
Dave Hardten,2515 Kelly Avenue, stated he is opposed to the project given the amount of increased
traffic. The traffic on the north end of Kelly Avenue will likely increase by around 25 percent as a result
of this development and would make the situation even more dangerous. People do not obey the right-
hand turn lane and go shooting past that. Hardten stated adding several more homes will add to the
dangerous situation.
Hardten stated if you look at the way the water flows,the majority of the water starts out on the east side
of the street and then goes down a fairly aggressive slope into the wetlands. Hardten stated in his view
there needs to be a very deep retention pond in that area. Hardten stated as has been mentioned before,
the current basin cannot accommodate any more water since it is already flooding.
Hardten stated as it relates to the tree cover and the protection from the noise, especially in the
wintertime, is not adequate for that volume of homes. Hardten stated this development almost doubles
the number of homes on Kelly Avenue if the townhomes across the street are excluded.
Alex Ware, 2587 Kelly, stated he is aware of a similar project that came before the Planning Commission
a year ago for this property that generated the same type of response from the neighbors. Ware stated the
implication from the notice was that the Planning Commission's desire was to solicit input but that none
of the residents were aware of the project until they received the recent post card. The neighbors are
currently playing catch up on this project but that they have learned a great deal tonight.
Ware stated he certainly understand the desire for moderate income family homes in Orono but that this
development will not solve that need and will create additional problems as a result of the added
Page 23 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
hardcover and flooding as well as the habitat loss. Ware indicated there are a number of deer,turkey and
other wildlife that make a home in that area. Ware noted City Staff made a recommendation that there be
no removal of any trees or undergrowth on the property which appears to be in conflict with realty.
Ware noted other neighbors have already talked about the Lund's parking lot and the inability of people
to exit onto County Road 15 from Kelly,which is a very hazardous condition. Ware stated he would
encourage the Planning Commissioners to try it on a Saturday or a Sunday.
Ware stated the number of people in the notification area was ten lots, which is the number of units being
proposed for this development. Ware noted it was mentioned that traffic would increase by 25 percent as
a result of the development but that he would argue that it will be actually a 100 percent increase. Ware
indicated there are significant issues with autos as well as pedestrian traffic.
Ware stated the neighbors also take the impact on their property values very seriously and that the noise,
visibility, traffic, and water issues will all compound should this development be constructed.
Scott Wine, 2605 Kelly, stated he agrees with the comments made by his neighbors. Wine stated he
recently began construction of a home and that he owns one of the nicest lots on Lake Minnetonka on one
of the most serene streets in Orono. Wine stated part of his investment was based on the fact that Orono
has consistently enforced their zoning laws, which is something that people can count on.
Wine indicated he is making this investment with the belief that at most there would only be four homes
on this site. Wine stated what has been referred tonight as a minor amendment is much more than that
not only because of the detriment to the home values but the additional hardscape that would be added
and the problems that would be created as a result of that.
Wine indicated he is opposed to the proposed project but that he would support construction of single-
family homes as currently authorized.
Cathy Meager, 2720 Kelly Avenue, stated she lives on the other end of Kelly and that she is also not
happy either with the traffic. Meager stated this development will add a number of cars onto Kelly as
well as County Road 15.
Page 24 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Meager stated she also has trouble understanding how it went from single-family homes to having five
buildings with ten owners. Meager stated in her view that is way too much.
Pam Whitehead, 2620 Kelly Avenue, stated she is in agreement with the comments by her neighbors.
Tom Waslow,Architect, stated they had no expectation of the reaction by the neighbors tonight and that
he is a little angry tonight that they are being told now that this is a rezoning. Waslow stated if they had
been told that,they would have held a neighborhood meeting and they would not be in this sort of
situation because they would have been talking and working with the neighbors.
Waslow stated even though this site is currently undeveloped, there is a chance it contributes to the
flooding now but that he is not sure of that. Waslow stated while they have not yet engineered the site,
there are ways to control the runoff on the site so it does not contribute to the problem. The Watershed
District also did not have any issue with what was being proposed.
Waslow pointed out that the ten families living in five twin homes would be smaller as a group of homes
than if you were to take the footprint of four single-family homes.
Waslow indicated he is not sure where they are going to go from here or what the recommendations of the
Planning Commission will be,but that they will respect them and work them into our plans. Waslow
noted it is beyond their ability to correct the traffic problems on the corner of County Road 15 and Kelly.
In addition, it sounds like Staff has done some investigative work into the flooding and that the collapsed
culvert and other issues will need to be addressed by the City. Waslow stated he knows that they will be
able to manage the water on this site with the proper engineering.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 8:32 p.m.
Berg stated she lives on the corner of Lydiard Avenue and Kelly and that the traffic issues need to be
taken into consideration for the safety of the neighborhood. Berg stated a number of people go down
Kelly and Lydiard who cannot get out onto County Road 15. Berg stated while the developer cannot
correct the problem, they need to consider how this will impact the neighborhood.
Page 25 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Leskinen stated her initial impressions in reviewing the Staff report over the weekend as well as the
Planning and Council minutes was that it was felt the last time that five units were too many. In addition,
the Council had said that they felt four would be more appropriate. Leskinen stated it was also indicated
that the City very strongly wanted access off of Shadywood and not off of Kelly.
McGrann asked if the Planning Commission has seen any plans with access off of Kelly.
Schoenzeit stated it has always been off of Kelly.
Leskinen stated the location of one of the units has been changed but that in her view five is too many.
Landgraver stated it is always good when neighbors get together and talk about what they would like their
neighborhood to look like and that there is some good dialogue going on. Landgraver stated in his view
there are a couple of issues that need to be address, which are the flooding and the traffic. Landgraver
stated the loud message being conveyed is that there is a fundamental flooding problem in the area as well
as traffic control.
Landgraver stated he also had the understanding that tree removal would be limited.
Mack stated one of Staff's recommendations would have identified site disruption limitations,which
would extend beyond the conservation and flowage easement itself Mack stated there would also be
areas around the building footprints,private driveway,hammerheads and bump-outs that would also be
completely cleared with the exception of a site specific tree analysis noted by the architect.
Berg stated there would also be a huge environmental impact with the removal of trees.
Mack indicated there would be. Mack stated Staff also recommended that there be additional coniferous
trees planted around the south side of the structures to help break up the massing appearance.
Landgraver stated that would be responsive to the noise concerns. Landgraver stated even if the site was
contained to four units,there would still be trees coming down and that he is not swayed by the argument
that they will not cut down any more trees.
Page 26 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Berg stated maybe the answer is three units to limit the impact.
Thiesse stated the Planning Commission does not have control over that.
Schoenzeit noted it is zoned and guided for four homes.
Landgraver stated fundamentally there has been some good discussion and that perhaps the applicants
have experience with these types of discussions before and that it might be good to take a time out and
talk to the neighbors.
Lemke indicated he is in agreement with Council Member Landgraver. Lemke stated the water issues
and traffic are major concerns.
McGrann stated the City will need to deal with the flooding and traffic issues whether it is single-family
lots or higher density. McGrann stated when you have a group of people that purchase or invest or own
homes, if what is being developed is in there at the time they purchase the property,they understand it,
but when you start changing the zoning to potentially something different,people have a different
reaction.
Thiesse stated he agrees wholeheartedly with that. Based on the City's Code,the applicants could
construct four large homes as well as two driveways,which may be worse than what is being proposed.
Thiesse stated with this much pushback from the neighbors and the fact that there is a Comprehensive
Plan Amendment required,he cannot be in support of it.
Berg asked if the application needs to be presented differently based on what Mr.Mack had stated earlier.
Mack stated that is his understanding. Mack stated he came into this project after the sketch plan and that
both he and Gaffron met with the developers. Mack stated he would like to have Mike Gaffron comment
a little bit on where the breakdown was in Staff's interpretation of the Code. Mack stated he would like
to apologize to the applicants but that he wants to make sure that what the City is doing is correct
according to the City's laws.
Page 27 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Gaffron stated during all the sketch plan reviews, the discussion was that this was going to be an RPUD
rezoning. When the Comprehensive Plan was revised in 2008,it did not change this area and it is still
zoned LR-1B, single family residential. Gaffron indicated the planned residential development is one of
the options the City has for a development but that RPUDs and PRDs are limited to single-family
detached dwellings. Gaffron stated the RPUD is probably the most logical to use in this situation.
Gaffron noted the City also has an M6,multiple family,option that the City has never used but that it
applies to two-family dwelling units. Under that option,the units must meet the underlying zoning
district standards for a single-family dwelling,which means the double units would need to meet the one-
acre zoning requirement. Gaffron stated based on that,under the current zoning, if the two-family
dwelling provision is taken advantage of, a total of eight units would be allowed. In addition,the
multifamily twin home use is not allowed via a PRD. Gaffron indicated there are also other regulations
that would apply if the land is located within the shoreland.
Mack stated regardless of what happens with this particular project before the Planning Commission
tonight,he would like to make a commitment on behalf of the City to the neighborhood that the City will
continue to look at the drainage problems in this area.Mack stated he is not an engineer either,but that he
does know the City has the ability to go out and do what it can to solve the problems to the best of their
ability by taking the steps they have available to them at this point in time.
Mack stated he has discussed the situation with the street superintendent and the utility superintendent,
who has a great deal of background and understanding about the situation. Mack indicated they went out
last Friday and took a look at it and that the City will try to take immediate actions, if possible,this fall to
replace the collapsed culvert in the hopes that will help lessen the problems. Mack indicated he is not
sure whether it will solve the problems entirely but that it has to be done, including replacement of other
pipes. Mack stated taking a comprehensive look at the whole area is important and that the City will do
everything they possibly can to address the problem.
Schoenzeit stated if the developer is planning for anything beyond the four single-family homes that
would be allowed as currently zoned, he would guess that Shadywood would be a catalyst or a facilitator
for improving the water issues. Schoenzeit noted the architect made mention of the fact that they would
take care of their own water,but that he would suggest they give some thought to perhaps handling some
Page 28 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
additional water to help appease the neighborhood. Schoenzeit stated he does not see the developer being
able to go beyond what is in the code given all the issues present.
Thiesse suggested the developer be asked if he would like the application tabled.
Leskinen asked whether the applicant would like the Planning Commission to vote on the application
tonight or table it. Leskinen stated it appears the Planning Commission is not in a position to make a
recommendation to go forward with the proposal given the information that is in front of them.
Bessesen indicated he is in agreement with that statement. Bessesen indicated he has spent quite a bit of
money with Jacobs Engineering Environmental Group to do an environmental and wetland study of the
site. In addition,Wenck Engineering has signed off with the Watershed District and are agreement that it
is a Class III wetland on about a half-acre. Bessesen noted he does have an easement and that he can go
through the property on Shadywood.
Bessesen stated he had felt a development for senior citizens or empty nesters would have less of an
impact. Bessesen stated he has met with Staff and the Watershed District on the application and that they
are proposing less than 20 percent hardcover on the site. Bessesen indicated a storm sewer pond would
not be necessary and that they would be able to manage the runoff with landscaping and so forth.
Bessesen stated his goals were to create a development that would have a low impact on the site as well as
preserve as many trees as possible. Bessesen noted the City does not have a tree ordinance and that on
the property outside of the protected area that the Delaneys signed,he would be able to cut down as many
trees as he wants to. Bessesen stated if four single-family homes are constructed on the site,a large
number of trees would need to be cut down.
Bessesen indicated he also spent a lot of time with Hennepin County in discussions trying to get them to
give him permission to put a road to Delaney's other piece of property and they said they have no
intention of letting him go across that property to service County Road 19 because there is already a city
street in there. Bessesen stated he has tried to put access off of Shadywood but that he was not successful.
Page 29 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Bessesen stated he already has a plan prepared for four homes on this site and that he will sell the lots off
one at a time. Bessesen stated he is not sure if there is any reason to go forward with this application.
Bessesen stated he would have preferred to have a development that would have less impact on the
neighborhood.
Leskinen stated the Planning Commission can table the application if the applicant would like to take
additional time to look at the four units. Leskinen noted that it was said loud and clear by the City
Council and the Planning Commission that four units would be the maximum.
Bessesen indicated the economics do not work on four units and that five is almost not worth it. Bessesen
noted he could go three stories on the single-family homes.
Leskinen stated she applauds his efforts to create a low-impact development and that he has presented a
great plan,but the area has unfortunately been plagued by traffic and flooding issues over the years,
which proves to be very challenging.
• Berg stated it is unfortunate that one of the units cannot be eliminated.
Bessesen stated their plan is to put a development up on Shadywood from Lund's all the way up to the
church, which will be 64 condominiums with some retail underneath it.
Landgraver stated the applicant has put a lot of thought into the plan and that perhaps the residents will go
home tonight and give more thought to what it would be like with four single-family homes.
Leskinen asked if he would like to table the application.
Bessesen stated it probably would be worth it to table it.
Schoenzeit moved,Thiesse seconded,to table Application No. 14-3686, David Delaney, 2500 Block
of Kelly Avenue. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0.
(Recess taken from 8:57 P.M.to 9:03 P.M.)
Page 30 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
5. #14-3688 APPLIED ECOLOGICAL SERVICES,520,550 AND 630 TONKAWA ROAD,
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT,9:03 P.M.—9:06 P.M.
Curtis stated the applicant has made an application for a conditional use permit for the properties located
at 520, 550, and 630 Tonkawa Road in order to restore a portion of a nearly 3-acre Type III wetland.
The proposal is essentially to improve the quality of the wetland,to improve the wetland vegetation, and
eliminate invasive vegetation.
Staff did do a review of the project and concluded that the applicants are meeting the goals of the
conditional use permit. Staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit subject to the applicants
obtaining the appropriate permits/approvals from the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District prior to
issuance of the administrative zoning permit.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 9:05 p.m.
There were no public comments regarding this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 9:05 p.m.
Leskinen stated she has no issues with the application subject to the conditions outlined in Staff report.
Berg moved, Schoenzeit seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 14-3688,Applied
Ecological Services, 520,550, and 630 Tonkawa Road, granting of a conditional use permit subject
to the conditions outlined in Staff report. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0.
6. #14-3689 SVEN GUSTAFSON,2490 CARMAN STREET,VARIANCES,9:06 P.M.—9:21
P.M.
Sven Gustafson,Applicant,was present.
Curtis stated this property was the subject of a lot line rearrangement at the August Planning Commission
meeting. That lot line rearrangement was approved recently by the City Council. The subject property is
Page 31 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
located in the LR-1B zoning district and abuts an undeveloped fire lane. A 35-foot setback is required
from the undeveloped side street or fire lane and the applicant is requesting a variance to permit a 15-foot
setback. Curtis stated the Code is silent on whether or not it is considered a developed or undeveloped
right-of-way. The property directly across from the fire lane is located in the LR-1C district where a 15-
foot setback is required.
Curtis displayed a picture of the fire lane. Curtis indicated there is some vegetation on the east side of the
fire lane. The development of the lot may impact some of that vegetation.
Staff's recommendation is for approval of the setback variance but would like the applicant to provide
some detail about what trees would be impacted by the construction of the home. If trees are impacted,
Staff would like a landscape plan showing how they can provide screening along the property line with
the fire lane.
Berg asked if the other house is 15 feet from the property line.
Curtis stated it is,and while it appears that that house has a greater yard area, it is actually the fire lane.
Landgraver asked if those property owners have been maintaining the fire lane.
Curtis indicated they have been.
Leskinen asked if the fire lane has been abandoned by the City.
Curtis indicated it is not developed and that it has not been open for road use.
Leskinen asked if Staff anticipates any future use of that fire lane by the City.
Curtis stated Staff does not anticipate the fire lane being used by the City and that the applicant is the
property owner on the west side. Curtis stated the intent is not to open it for a roadway.
Schoenzeit asked if the fire lane is posted for public use.
Page 32 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Gaffron stated to his knowledge it is not. Gaffron noted the City has 37 or 38 fire lanes throughout the
City and that the general expectation is that the fire lanes will be used primarily by the residents of the
neighborhood since the majority of them do not have parking available. Gaffron indicated the City
usually does not publish them because the neighbors do not want it to become a regional draw.
Berg noted this fire lane is used by the neighborhood and that there is a dock there.
Gaffron stated the dock was taken out and put back this year at the request of the neighborhood.
Landgraver asked if the dock can be removed by the adjoining property owner.
Gaffron stated the dock is within the right-of-way corridor and the neighbors cannot remove it.
Sven Gustafson, Stone Wood,pointed out the zoning district changes at the fire lane and that in his view
this property is in the wrong zone. Gustafson stated the zoning for this property requires a 140—foot
minimum width and this property has 99 feet. In addition, it requires a one-acre minimum and this
property consists of six-tenths of an acre. Gustafson stated to the other side of the fire lane the setback is
15 feet instead of 35 feet and that this is an awkward transition of a lot that missed the cut of where it
should have been.
Gustafson stated the property to the east of this one also has an encroaching structure that is 5.2 feet from
the property line as well as a paver walkway that overlaps the side yard setback. Gustafson indicated he
is attempting to make reasonable use of the property and will be centering the home between the
neighboring structures. Gustafson stated it will not be a large home and will be under the structural
coverage limits at approximately 13 percent.
Landgraver asked if he is okay with Staffs recommendation regarding a landscaping plan.
Gustafson indicated he is. Gustafson noted the fire lane is not an area that is really viewable from inside
the house but that if there is a need to shield the fire lane,they would be open to that. Gustafson stated a
Page 33 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
lot of the current vegetation is not meaningful vegetation and is basically stuff that has simply grown
there rather than being planted.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 9:13 p.m.
Michael Malik, 2469 Carman Street, stated when they purchased their property,they had a very nice view
of the lake,which tended to disappear in the summer due to the trees. Malik stated with the proposed
house,they will lose over half of their view. The trees that are there now are three to four feet in diameter
maple trees. During the summer it defines the lane and looks pretty. Malik stated in the fall it is
absolutely beautiful with the trees.
Malik stated he took a walk along the property line today and that a 15-foot setback would put them right
on the tree roots, if not right up next to the trunk. Malik stated at this point he is looking at them being
removed, which will open up a very large area and that he will be looking at a house 24/7 instead of six
months out of the year. Malik noted there was no plan for landscaping submitted so he is not sure exactly
what is planned for that area. Malik stated he does know some of the trees are dying and will need to
come down but that he would like the really good trees to remain.
Malik indicated he is also worried about the construction. Due to the narrow street,there is no on-street
parking. Malik stated the last builder used his property as a parking lot and that he is concerned about
that happening during this project. Malik stated a few years ago the City came by and redid the sewer and
water and that he talked to them about making the street corner wider to no avail. Malik stated he would
like that to be taken into consideration as well with this application.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 9:18 p.m.
Leskinen asked if a permit would be required if the larger trees would be removed.
Curtis stated the trees are beyond the 75-foot setback but that she does not know the exact location of the
trees since they are not depicted on the survey. Curtis stated if there is a concern about preservation of
those trees,the applicant should be directed to look at that.
Page 34 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Malik stated he believes they are on the subject property.
Leskinen stated if the trees are on the subject property and beyond the 75-foot zone, it is out of the
jurisdiction of the Planning Commission. Leskinen stated the developer is now aware of it.
Landgraver commented it begs the question of why the second developer has to put in the landscaping
when the other person did not have to and that the Planning Commission may not be able to do anything
about it. Landgraver suggested the developer take the neighbor's comments into consideration.
Leskinen stated she would have had a concern if the tree was in the fire lane,but since it is not, it is
outside the scope of the Planning Commission.
Berg moved,Lemke seconded,to recommend approval of Application No. 14-3689, Sven Gustafson,
2490 Carman Street, granting of a 15-foot side street setback variance subject to the conditions
recommended by Staff. VOTE: Ayes 7, Nays 0.
7. #14-3690 TONKA LAKE PROPERTIES,LLC, 1565 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE(PID
07-117-23-43-0026)VARIANCES AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT,9:21 P.M.—9:47 P.M.
Fred Johnson with Tonka Lake Properties, Applicant,was present.
Gaffron stated the applicant is requesting lot area and width variances, a rear setback variance, a side
street setback variance,an average lakeshore setback variance, and a conditional use permit and variance
for filling within 75 feet of the lake in excess of ten cubic yards. Gaffron noted this same application was
before the Planning Commission approximately one year ago and it was denied at that time. Gaffron
stated this application is virtually the same proposal as last time.
Gaffron noted Staff has prepared an extensive and detailed Staff report which he will not go into great
depth on,but that Staff is recommending denial of all of the variances. In relation to the lake setback
variance, Gaffron stated the applicants are not requesting one at this time,but in meeting the 75-foot
lakeshore setback,placement of even a small residence would require substantial rear setback variances.
Page 35 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
The buildable envelope, as shown, is roughly 12 feet deep and 30 to 40 feet wide. Gaffron indicated it is
not large enough to construct the proposed house on it without variances.
Gaffron stated the proposed house is located 12.9 feet from the rear lot line where a 30-foot setback is
required and results in a separation to the neighboring residence to the northwest of about 40 feet. That
neighboring home is directly uphill from the proposed house and drainage from that home flows naturally
towards the proposed house. The proposed house is set back from the road 25.4 feet from the side street
lot line where 35 feet is required.
In addition,the Code-required minimum setback for a detached garage facing the street is 30 feet. The
proposed tuck-under garage is not an accessory structure,but the principle of maintaining a 30-foot
setback for parking will be somewhat compromised by a 25-foot setback. The west side requires a 10-
foot setback,which the proposed house does meet.
Gaffron stated more critical is the average lakeshore setback. The average lakeshore setback requirement
for this property is defined by the lake setback of the residence structure on the only adjacent residential
lot,which is 1555 Orchard Beach Place. That house is approximately 125 feet from the ordinary high
water level. Any proposed structure at 1565 would have to be set back 125 feet from the ordinary high
water level,which is impossible because the applicant's lot is only 110 to 120 feet in depth.
The zoning code contains provisions for an administrative average setback approval provided certain
conditions are met. Evidence has been submitted by the adjoining property owner indicating they would
not agree to the approval required for issuance of an administrative average setback variance.
Development on this lot potentially could obstruct lake views of the adjacent owner, and the neighbor's
lack of approval would negate the authority for administrative approval.
The applicants are proposing a house that covers less than 11 percent of the lot area, meeting the 15
percent limit. The house is also below the 1,500 square foot allotment the code provides for lots less than
10,000 square feet in area.
Approximately two-thirds of the property is within 75 feet of the lake and would not have been allowed
hardcover credit for that zone under the City's old regulations. Under the new hardcover tier system, 25
Page 36 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
percent of the entire lot area yields just over 2,400 square feet of hardcover allowance. The applicant is
proposing a house and driveway totaling just under 1,600 square feet of hardcover so no hardcover
variance is required.
Gaffron stated as it relates to the building height,the proposed house appears to meet the City's
established height limitations of 30 feet and 2-1/2 stories. As depicted,the proposed structure has a
defined height of approximately 23 feet, a peak height of approximately 29 feet, and is defined as a two-
story structure with no basement. The lower level would be defined as a story. No variance is necessary
for the height of the structure.
Gaffron noted Staff's report contains the practical difficulties analysis as well as an analysis of the
consistency of the proposal with the Comprehensive Plan.
Staff finds the following:
1. The property does not meet the criteria established by state statute and City Code to be deemed
buildable without variances being granted.
2. The City is not obligated to grant variances to allow this property to be buildable.
3. The fact that a summer hoe existed on the property many decades ago does not provide an
inherent right to build a home on the property.
4. The parcel has historically been assessed at a valuation significantly below that of a buildable
site.
5. In past actions the City has generally denied lot area variances for vacant lots of less than 10,000
square feet.
6. The original plat designation as"Commons" strongly suggests that this site was originally platted
as a neighborhood amenity rather than as an individual building site.
Page 37 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
7. Development of this lot potentially could obstruct lake views of the adjacent owner.
8. Factors that demonstrate the inconsistency of this proposal with the character of the surrounding
neighborhood include:
a. The property at 0.22 acres is one-fifth the average size of developed residential lots
within the immediate neighborhood.
b. The proposed lakeshore setback at 75 feet is significantly less than the setback of
developed lakeshore lots within the immediate neighborhood,which range from 85 feet
to 165 feet and average 112 feet.
c. The proposed street setback of 25.4 feet where a 35-foot setback is required places the
structure closer to the street than any other home on Orchard Beach Place.
d. Removal of nearly all vegetation in a swatch approximately 65 feet by 80 feet potentially
will alter the visual character of the neighborhood:
9. Grading of the site to accommodate the proposed house and redirect the natural runoff pattern
will result in significant impacts to existing protected trees in the 0-75 foot lakeshore protected
zone.
10. Development on this small lot will be in conflict with any number of the goals and policies
contained within the 2000-2030 Orono Community Management Plan.
Gaffron stated based on a variety of factors, Staff believes that development of this property with a single-
family residence would have negative impacts on the character of the neighborhood,would have negative
environmental impacts, and would not be in keeping with the intent of the Comprehensive Plan. As a
result, Staff recommends denial of all the variances and conditional use permit and variance for
grading/excavation/fill within the 0-75 foot zone.
Leskinen asked if anything has changed from last year.
Page 38 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Gaffron stated the same drawings and grading plans have been resubmitted and that it is his belief nothing
has changed.
Todd Haugan,Attorney-at-Law, stated he represents the applicants and has been a resident of Orono for
27 years. Haugan indicated his first house in Orono was approximately the same size as what is being
proposed tonight on a 50-foot lot and that he raised two children in that house. Haugan stated he is
wondering why a house cannot be built on this property.
Haugan stated the law does not allow any city to take away any reasonable use of a property,which is
what is happening in this situation. Haugan stated he is trying to understand as an Orono resident why
someone cannot take a lot that was platted and had a house and garage on it at one point in time,but then
as years go by and numerous laws and ordinances are passed,that what was once a buildable lot,platted
as a buildable lot, is no longer buildable.
Haugan stated the proposed house is pretty modest. Haugan stated he heard comments about how the
neighboring lots are huge,but they were once platted as small individual 50-foot lots. Haugan noted this
is an 83-foot wide lot, 100 feet deep, and abuts a road. The road serves no one other than the two
neighbors above, with the rest of the road being exclusively for this property.
Haugan stated at the end of the day, his comments might be better made in a different forum,but that
there are two issues. One, as it was mentioned,this is only a variance request for size and not use.
Haugan stated in his view Staff's report is absolutely wrong in determining whether this is a buildable lot.
Haugan indicated the applicants would like a setback from a back and a side that offends no one.
Haugan stated if there are neighbors here that are complaining, the only two that would have any dog in
this fight would be the people who live 20 feet higher than this proposed house and that their view of the
lake is obstructed by the massive trees on the subject property. Haugan stated in his view that is not an
issue.
Haugan stated as it relates to the effect the variance would have on government services,there would be
none since the property is readily accessible by a road. Whether the variance will affect substantial
change in the character of the neighborhood is not true. Haugan stated the biggest disruption to the
Page 39 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
neighborhood was the 9,000 square foot, $4 million house that was allowed to be constructed across the
street,which is an aberration in the neighborhood. Haugan stated the 1,050 to 1,200 square foot floor
plan being proposed is identical to the two residences above this lot.
Haugan stated as to whether the practical difficulty could be alleviated by a feasible method other than
variance is not possible since the property cannot be made bigger. Haugan stated the applicants also did
not create this practical difficulty and that it resulted from over 100 years of changes in various laws. The
property will become, if a variance is not granted, functionally obsolete.
Haugan stated the final criteria is whether,in light of all of the above factors, a variance would serve the
interests of justice. Haugan asked what is wrong with building a modest house,raising a family, and
paying taxes on it. Haugan stated in the grand scheme of things,that is all positive.
Haugan stated the other criteria is undue hardship and whether there is undue hardship. Number one,the
property in question cannot be put to a reasonable use if the variance is not granted. Haugan stated to his
knowledge that question was posed to the Planning Commission previously,and that the question then
becomes, if the variance is not granted,what could possibly be done with the property. Haugan stated he
heard from the videotape that someone could camp on it. Haugan noted this property has been valued as
high as $150,000,there was a mortgage on the property for as much as $150,000 a number of years ago,
but it is literally worthless if a house cannot be built on it.
Haugan stated the applicants are requesting the variance be granted and that in his view the request is
modest.
Schoenzeit asked if he is aware of the last time this property had a house.
Haugen stated to his knowledge it was in the 1930s or 1940s. Haugan stated the house burnt down,the
property owners resided in California and never came back. Haugan stated the garage on the property
became a nuisance and was required to be removed sometime in the 1960s.
Schoenzeit stated independent of all the variance requests,the one request that concerns him the most is
the average lakeshore setback,which is one of Orono's most specific setbacks and ranks up there with the
Page 40 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
City's hardcover ordinances. Schoenzeit noted the house would be right in the middle of the average
lakeshore setback asked how that would be addressed given the fact that that is not allowed.
Haugen stated for many,many years there was no setback and then it became 0-75 feet from the lake.
Haugan stated the sight line is 125 feet. Haugan stated if that cannot be changed, then the property is
absolutely 100 percent is worthless because the property is approximately 120 feet.
Schoenzeit stated if he is acknowledges that,then why is he here.
Haugen stated if someone owns property,no governmental entity can render it worthless. Haugan stated
without an average lakeshore setback, it is worthless and it effectively has been taken.
Berg noted every other landowner in Orono has to abide by the average lakeshore setback. Berg asked if
this situation is somewhat unique that this property should not be held to that standard.
Haugen stated when there was once a house on the property and it is currently a legal lot, a city cannot
pass laws to make it impossible for someone to use it for housing. Haugan stated if the house were still
there,this conversation would not have happened and the house would have been grandfathered in.
Berg stated with new construction or if the house were abandoned, all bets are off, and that they would
then be having this discussion.
Haugen stated the neighbors in question each have three lots that were combined but that does not mean
they are not allowed to have one 50-foot lot.
Leskinen noted at one time this lot was platted as a commons lot.
Haugen stated no one seems to know what that means and the property was never given or dedicated to
the public or anyone. Haugan stated the property was owned privately as far back as 1910 by people who
constructed a home on it and lived there. Haugan stated he is not sure whether anyone knows what the
commons designation means.
Page 41 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 9:40 p.m.
Lisa Wysocki, 1555 Orchard Beach Place,pointed out there are three homes on the road and not two as
previously stated. Wysocki noted the person who purchased the property in approximately 1980 knew
that the lot was unbuildable when he purchased it because he had commented to the neighbors about that
but that he had friends on the Orono City Council and that he thought he could get them to change their
mind and make it a buildable lot.
Wysocki stated she feels for the current property owners since it is a bad investment. Wysocki stated any
home on the lot would block their views and that they have had that view for 57 years. Wysocki stated in
addition to the average lakeshore setback, the lot is very wet and puddles and floods regularly. Wysocki
indicated it is basically a drain field for a 5-acre piece of property and that a portion of her gravel
driveway basically ends up in that lot every year. Wysocki stated the trees on the lot currently help
absorb the water that goes into that lot naturally, and that if any trees were removed, it would impact the
wetness of the lot.
Wysocki stated she is also concerned about the setback being reduced from 30 feet back to 12.5 feet,
which would be right up against their property lot. Wysocki noted there would also be very little parking
available. Wysocki stated there is a city pumping station at the end of the road and that there are
routinely two or three cars down at the end of the lane which leaves no place for guests to park.
Wysocki noted this issue has come up a number of times in the past and that the Orono Planning
Commission and City Council have denied it every single time. Wysocki indicated she is opposed to the
request.
Les Delton, 1535 Orchard Beach Place, stated he is opposed to the project. Delton stated while the
property does not necessarily flood,the property is continually wet. Given the wet spring,there was
water flowing down onto this property for approximately a month.
Delton stated they also have a view of the lake from their deck and that to go from trees to a house is not
something that they want. Delton stated they were always told it was a fire lane and that no parking was
allowed in the fire lane. Delton stated with very little driveway, they would need to park on the road.
Page 42 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Nancy Delton, 1535 Orchard Beach Place, indicated she agrees with the comments made by Lisa
Wysocki and Les Delton and that she is opposed to the variances.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 9:45 p.m.
Leskinen stated she has not heard anything tonight that was different from a year ago. Leskinen stated
this is a complicated lot and has always been considered unbuildable.
Lemke stated he sympathizes with the owners,but that it is an unbuildable property given the water issues
and the setbacks.
McGrann moved,Schoenzeit seconded,to recommend denial of Application No. 14-3690, Tonka
Lake Properties, 1565 Orchard Beach Place. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0
8. #14-3691 SOURCE LAND CAPITAL,L LC,405 NORTH ARM DRIVE,PRELIMINARY
PLAT AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A PLANNED RESIDENTIAL
DEVELOPMENT, 9:47 P.M.—10:50 P.M.
Pat Hiller, Applicant,was present.
Steve Grittman,Planning Consultant, stated before the Planning Commission tonight is a preliminary plat
with a PRD overlay for the property formerly known as the Lakeview Golf Course. The first application
that was considered by the Planning Commission and Council was heard last fall as a Comprehensive
Plan Amendment. The property was zoned as recreation and open space, with the underlying zoning
being RR-1B. The application for a change in the zoning was eventually approved by the City Council in
January of this year.
The Comprehensive Plan Amendment then went to the Metropolitan Council and was scheduled to be
heard before the Metropolitan Council Community Development Committee in May. Prior to that
hearing,the EAW was initiated on the property, and the Metropolitan Council suggested that the City
request tabling of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment at that time to ensure there were no
Page 43 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
environmental issues that would interfere with the Metropolitan Council's land use decision. The
decision by the Metropolitan Council is to determine whether the amendment is consistent with their
regional planning. Grittman noted at this time the Comprehensive Plan Amendment has not been
approved by the Metropolitan Council pending receipt of the EAW findings.
Grittman stated the Environmental Assessment Worksheet was published in July as part of the
Environmental Quality Board's review process. A number of comments were received, with the majority
of the comments relating to potential plat issues or related follow-up enforcement and code application.
The applicant has provided supplemental information related to the potential environmental impacts of
the project. The final step in the EAW process is for the City Council to determine whether there is a
need for an environmental impact statement. The City Council will be voting on that item in the near
future.
The applicants are now pursuing approval of their preliminary plat and a PRD overlay which allows them
to ask for some flexibility in the design and the technical details of the project that might not meet what
would normally be expected as part of a single-family plat. The applicants are primarily asking for
private streets and other items related to the design of the roads. Grittman noted those items are within
the purview of the City to determine whether that flexibility should be allowed. Grittman stated typically
those items would be looked at as a variance,but under the PRD process, it would not be considered a
variance.
Grittman noted a significant amount of information has been submitted in connection with the
application, and because of the timing,there were some updates and supplementary submissions. Given
the volume of material that needs to be gone through in more detail,the recommendation is to table action
on this item until the October meeting.
Grittman stated he did highlight some issues that the applicant should provide clarity on, and are as
follows:
1. Identify all lot sizes, exempting the areas of the lot perimeter within the existing wetlands.
Page 44 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
2. Identify how property owners will be notified of the use and preservation of the conservation
areas.
3. Identify how property owners will develop the septic system locations compatibility with the
goals of the conservation easement areas. In addition, identify septic system maintenance issues
on Lot 13,Block 3. Grittman noted a homeowners association would be in place for this
development. Approximately one-third of the septic sites are located within the Conservation
Easement and Staff is currently reviewing that situation.
4. Identify,with more specificity,the tree removals required subsequent to street construction and
grading and for house/pad/driveway construction. The applicants have provided a grading plan
depicting the road cuts as well as an extensive tree survey. Grittman noted one of the things that
has not been included on the plan is identification of the driveway locations and what grading will
be necessary for the house pads.
5. Specify details of retaining wall location and construction.
6. Identify the impacts of driveway construction, including reasonable gradients and impacts on tree
removals. Grittman noted this is a repeat item.
7. Resolution of the park dedication issue for plat purposes. Grittman noted the applicant has been
in discussions with the neighbors over the potential dedication of one lot for a park. Staff is
in the process of reviewing the implications a park would have to the City as it relates to
future maintenance and park dedication issues as part of this application.
8. Proposed use and potential replatting options for Outlot C. Grittman stated in the very southwest
Corner there is an outlot that is approximately two acres in size and that Staff is looking at the
potential for replatting and use of that parcel.
9. Recommendations of the City Engineer related to stormwater management,utility services, sewer
and water provision, streets and traffic, and other comments as detailed in his report dated
September 12,2014.
Page 45 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
10. Comments of other City Staff.
Grittman stated that is the envelope of the information that is being requested. Once that information is
received and Staff has had time to review it,the application will be brought back before the Planning
Commission in October.
Pat Hiller, Source Land Capital, stated a lot of work has occurred since last fall and that a number of
meetings have also occurred since then,including several meetings with the neighbors. Initially the
development had 59 lots,and based on the net buildable area, 60 lots were allowed.
Hiller stated as they went through the different iterations of the sketch plan, they were balancing the
economic considerations with the topography and city requirements. Hiller stated the preliminary plan
before the Planning Commission tonight proposes 47 lots on a site that has a gross area of just under 150
aces. Hiller stated when you subtract out the right-of-ways and the wetlands and the buffers, you end up
with a net site area of approximately 120 acres.
Hiller noted Outlot C was part of the original sale from the Wengstroms. When Grant sold the property,
he wanted to maintain Outlot C. When the plat is formally approved, Outlot C will be given back to
Grant. Outlot C is a 2-acre lot and is a legal conforming lot. Hiller stated to his knowledge nothing will
happen with Outlot C for the immediate future.
Landgraver asked what is on the north side of that lot.
Hiller indicated it is another residential lot. Hiller stated the 47 lots average 2.5 acres each. The
Conservation Easement area is depicted on the map as dark green and consists of approximately 64 acres.
Hiller stated as they went through the various iterations and concepts of the plan,the whole idea with
Lakeview was to rehabilitate a significant portion of the site and turn it back into something natural
looking, with the idea to retain the natural water pathways.
Hiller indicated on the overhead how the water generally flows on the site. Hiller stated they are
working with the natural pathways and that it made sense to keep those areas connected. As a result, a
Page 46 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
comprehensive site restoration plan was developed. Hiller stated as part of that work,they will be
working with Prairie Restorations.
Hiller noted it was mentioned earlier that some of the septic sites are within the buildable area and some
of them are within the Conservation Easement. Hiller stated they did not want the septic sites to drive the
conservation area, and if a septic site is located in a conservation area, Prairie Restorations will be looking
at planting natural vegetation in those areas to allow the septic site to blend in more with the natural
topography. Hiller stated there is nothing wrong with having the septic sites within the conservation area
and that it helped to create a better defined boundary for the conservation area.
Hiller indicated there will be language in the homeowners association documents that will make it very
clear what the individual property owner's responsibilities are with regard to the conservation easement.
The septic sites will also be signed and no structures will be allowed in the conservation area. In addition,
Prairie Restorations has been retained to maintain the wetlands over the long-term. Hiller stated there is a
long-term process once the conservation areas are re-cultivated in order to maintain them and the
association will be the enforcer of the conservation easement as well as any covenants. Hiller stated it
will be very clear to the future property owners what their responsibilities are with regard to the
conservation area.
Hiller indicated they have met with the City Council on a number of occasions and heard that there was
little to no flexibility on the two-acre minimum. Hiller noted all the lots now meet the two-acre minimum
with the exception of two lots that are slightly below the two-acre minimum. Hiller stated those two lots
will require a simple lot line shift and will be corrected prior to the next Planning Commission meeting.
The application and the plat at that point will be entirely conforming on the two-acre minimum.
Hiller stated in order to get the plat to work with the two-acre minimum, some of the lots are below 150
feet. Hiller indicated they made up for that with an extra amount of depth. Hiller stated given the
randomness of the lots,the shape of the lots and the position of the building pads, it is not that noticeable.
Hiller noted they will be in compliance with the setbacks but some of the street curves are not able to
meet the 30-mile rate at the entrance and that they will be asking for a little bit of leeway on the street
curves given the use of the road in that specific area.
Page 47 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Hiller noted there are two cul-de-sacs that exceed the 1,000 foot maximum. One cul-de-sac is 1,012 feet
and the other is 1,320 feet. Hiller stated the way the site has been laid out, the homes have been wrapped
around the plateaus and the layout has been designed around the terrain, which helps to minimize the
amount of grading on the site. Hiller stated the building pads will be largely untouched until the house is
constructed and then surveys will be submitted.
Hiller stated throughout this whole process they have had several forums for public comments and have
received a number of comments from the neighbors in the immediate area. The majority of the comments
related to traffic impacts. Hiller stated in the area where North Arm intersects County Road 19,there is a
two-way stop. Hiller pointed out there is an entrance to allow traffic to go down to the four-way stop and
an entrance to go to the two-way stop.
An additional concern was down to the south with the Red Oak Golf Course development and its 59
homes and the impacts that will have on traffic on these particular intersections and County Road 19 in
general. Hiller indicated they have gone ahead and hired a traffic consultant and the basic answer is that
the proposed additional lots for both developments are well within the design capacity for those
intersections and County Road 19 and no modifications need to be made by the developer.
Hiller stated one of the other EAW action items was to conduct an archeological study. Hiller indicated
they went ahead and followed through on that. The firm hired to do the archeological study dug a bunch
of holes over the course of a week and no remains were found. Hiller stated the DNR also alerted them to
the fact that there was an existing avian bird survey for the area and that that information could be
accessed. Hiller stated the DNR is not asking them to do anything further on that.
Hiller stated as they have gone through the process, some of the neighbors on North Arm asked if a park
could be considered as part of the development. Hiller indicated the development had not been
previously designed to include a park but that there is a four and a half acre lot that they would be willing
to set aside as a park. Hiller stated the septic site did test out fine on that lot and a house could be built on
that lot if the park concept does not work out. Hiller stated as they started working with the neighbors on
the park, the thinking was that it could be a passive park with a trail that could be used by the residents of
this development as well as the surrounding neighborhood.
Page 48 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15, 2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Hiller stated the lots in this development will sell for$300,000 and on up. Hiller indicated they are
willing to contribute$100,000 towards the park and that they will be asking the City Council to consider
a reduction in the park dedication fee in the amount of$100,000. Hiller stated the total park dedication
fee is approximately$250,000. The initial improvements to build out the park will be natural with the
restoration of the grasses and the wetland buffers. Hiller indicated the park will look like the rest of the
neighborhood and will not stand out. Hiller stated they will work with the citizens to raise some private
funds and that they will also likely contribute some extra money towards those improvements.
Hiller stated the question is how it will be maintained over the years. One option is to deed it to the City
or to have some type of public/private agreement. Hiller stated if there was momentum on the park,they
would be willing to work through some of those details between now and final plat and that they would
like to hear some feedback from the Commission on this item.
Hiller displayed some conceptual photos of various prairie restorations. Hiller stated the company Prairie
Restorations is one of the leaders in restoring prairies and have done several large projects. Hiller stated
Prairie Restorations would kill the existing vegetation, seed it, mow it at various intervals, and that it
takes approximately three years to get it to the right height. Every three years certain areas will need to
be burned. Hiller stated after this is done for a few cycles,the weeds become suppressed and the native
grasses take over. Hiller indicated a different seed mixture would be used in the wetland buffer areas.
Schoenzeit stated asked whether Xcel Energy has been contacted about the impacts that
approximately 100 new units are going to have on its infrastructure. Schoenzeit stated the infrastructure in
the area is already lacking, and when 100 new units are added, it will put an extra strain on the system.
Hiller indicated he did not specifically speak with Xcel about that but that Mediacom has been in the
process of installing Internet cable to the area. Hiller stated by next year, Mediacom will be at the corner
of the development and that he has spoken with them about extending the Internet into the development.
Schoenzeit stated he is speaking about Xcel and its ability to handle the extra 100 units on County
Road 19.
Page 49 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Hiller stated there has been an assumption that power will be available but that they will check on that to
make sure there is adequate power for the area.
Chair Leskinen opened the public hearing at 10:21 p.m.
Bryce Johnson, 580 North Arm Drive, stated he would encourage the Planning Commission to keep an
open mind on the park and that it has been a collaborative effort with the developer and the neighbors.
Johnson stated he has noticed that there are approximately 640 properties within a one-mile walking
distance of the park. The neighbors have been working with the developer and a landscape architect will
be brought in to provide some ideas for vegetation and create a firm plan for the park to give a better
understanding of what the long-term maintenance needs of the park will be.
Johnson noted they did get quite a few pledges and funds originally for preserving Lakeview and that
those funds can be used on the park. Johnson stated the group has an awareness that the City may not be
looking to take on another park at this time. Johnson indicated it is their plan that the park would not
create any burden for Orono but rather would be a really great example of people coming together.
Johnson indicated they will continue to work on this concept and that he would appreciate any input and
suggestions.
Johnson noted this was a property that consisted of 145 acres that were available to the general public.
The developer at first proposed a plan that would maintain approximately half of the property as a
common area. While that was not a firm plan,that was the implication that was given to the general
public. There was also talk about trails. As the plan evolved, it got to the point where, without the park
there is not a single foot of common land or publicly available land. Johnson indicated the park would be
a wonderful opportunity to acknowledge the legacy of that course and provide some historic information
to the visitors to the park. Johnson stated the park does have significant support from the neighbors.
Kelly Prchal, 4705 Watertown Road, stated she is speaking on behalf of some of her neighbors who were
not able to come tonight. Prchal stated she applauds the collaboration between the developer and the
residents for the park and that she supports the park concept. Prchal stated the developer has done a great
deal of work moving forward after the initial contentious debate and that she would support maximizing
the green space on this site. Prchal stated she would also recommend that the City look into the
Page 50 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
maintenance of the park going forward into the future and ways to ensure that the park and trails are
properly maintained.
Prchal stated in addition to all of that, due to the additional traffic on North Shore, she has a concern with
the speed of the vehicles, especially since there is zero shoulder space. There is also limited visibility
given the hills for pedestrians walking as well as cyclists. Prchal stated there is also the issue of the safety
of cars that need to stop or require assistance since there is no place to pull over.
Prchal stated as the City takes a look at what this development means for the community, she would
recommend that they look at not only the private property and the ability to sell those properties along
North Shore Drive,but that they should also take the time to look at the City infrastructure related to that
and in particular the size of the shoulders.
Rick Meyers,Park Commission Chair, stated it is a beautiful site where they are proposing the park but
that the main issue is money. Meyers stated the concept of a public/private partnership is an interesting
concept and asked whether$100,000 is a doable thing for the neighbors.
Johnson indicated it is.
Meyers stated he is hearing that the contribution from the developer would be $100,000 off of the park
dedication fee.
Hiller stated the lots are valued at least at$300,000 on the low end and that they would be willing to sell
the lot to the residents for$100,000 and then asking the City Council to consider a reduction of$100,000
in the park dedication fees.
Meyers asked if they would also be contributing another$100,000 in addition to the reduction in the park
dedication fee.
Hiller stated they would be.
Meyers asked what the timeline is for the citizens to raise the money.
Page 51 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Hiller stated the idea was that if there was some momentum behind the park, they would ask for approval
of that lot to be built on as well as approval of the lot to possibly be used as a park. Hiller indicated there
are some details that have to still be worked out but most pressing would be the public/private
maintenance agreement.
Meyers asked if negotiation on that agreement will affect the timelines for the development.
Hiller stated the idea is to obtain preliminary plat approval this fall and then work on fmal plat over the
winter. Hiller stated they will probably have a couple of months to work it out and that work on the site
would probably not start until next April or May.
Schoenzeit stated it sounds like the park could have first right of refusal,which would not affect the
developer's plans.
Hiller stated rather than getting blogged down in a plat discussion right now,he would like to provide the
general concept to the City and see if there is any support for it.
Meyers stated in his view the biggest issue will be the ongoing maintenance of the park but that he likes
the general concept. Meyers noted when he was speaking with Bryce Johnson he was talking about the
different homeowners associations in the area possibly contributing money towards maintenance of the
park.
Johnson stated that is one possibility.
Leskinen requested the members of the audience address their comments towards the Commission.
Johnson stated there is a homeowners association called Victoria Estates that is in the area and there are a
number of people of that association that are present tonight. Johnson stated the association consists of a
close group of friends and that they pay a yearly assessment to keep the dock. There are also a number of
other properties that are adjacent to the development and that there might be a willingness on the part of
those homeowners associations to put some money towards the park on a yearly basis.
Page 52 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Johnson stated it will be necessary to get a firm idea of what that maintenance will be and the possible
costs associated with it. Johnson stated in his view there are a number of opportunities to keep the same
spirit of collaboration going not only towards the maintenance of this park but that it could be a model for
some other parks in Orono as well.
Meyers asked if the homeowners association for this development could also maintain the park.
Hiller stated that is one option,but that the idea was that the City would retain fee interest in the property
since it would be deeded to them. Hiller stated it is a unique situation and those details will need to be
worked out.
Lucy Mitchell, 740 North Arm Drive,noted back in January she had mentioned the storm drains near her
property and that the developer had indicated he would be blocking those drains. Mitchell asked if that is
still the plan. Mitchell stated every time it rains,they have a river in their front yard and it goes straight to
North Ann Bay.
Hiller indicated there are a couple of culverts as well as one or two drain on the site. Hiller stated one or
two of those culverts drain out of the site and one drains into the site and that they had thought they could
grade the ones exiting the site no longer exit the site.
Dave Nash, EBS Engineering, stated there are actually four culverts on North Arm,with three draining
out of the site and one draining into the site. Nash stated their grading plan reflects that two of the three
can be redirected onto the site and then down south.
Mitchell indicated it goes underneath the street and into her property.
Nash stated due to the grades, they cannot redirect that one in a different direction.
Mitchell asked if it can be blocked.
Nash indicated it cannot be blocked.
Page 53 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Mitchell asked whether that would continue to drain to her property.
Nash indicated that is correct but that the other two will be redirected. Nash stated he would be happy to
work in more detail with the City Engineer.
Hiller asked if the water drainage will be greater or less.
Nash stated it will essentially be the same drainage area as what currently exists.
Mitchell stated the water always comes to their property and turns into a river. Mitchell stated the
developer in January said that they would try to seal it or block it to prevent the water from coming on to
their property.
Nash stated they cannot block it since it would create a lake that would flow over the road. Nash noted it
is an existing drainage problem that cannot be solved on this development alone.
Leskinen stated the Planning Commission cannot get wrapped up too much into one particular grading
and drainage issue at this point in time. Leskinen stated the City will continue to look at that issue outside
of this meeting.
Mitchell requested they address that issue in some fashion. Mitchell indicated she is also worried about
the sewage from the septic sites in the event of a power outage. Mitchell asked what will happen to those
septic tanks if there is no power for a couple of days. Mitchell noted last year there were two days where
they did not have any power.
Schoenzeit stated it is important that the development take care of its own water,especially since this is
new construction.
Nash indicated they will look at that again but that their drainage plan does address the water on their site.
Brenda Johnson, 520 North Arm Drive, stated she would like to thank Pat Hiller and his colleagues for
working with the neighbors and coming up with the proposal for the park. Johnson noted there was a
Page 54 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
diagram showing the proposed drainage and that it seemed like there were four lots going on to North
Arm. Johnson asked whether there is drainage exiting from that area.
Hiller indicated there are two culverts on the site where they will be able to divert the drainage back on to
the site. Hiller indicated they will look further into this other area with the engineer to see what they can
possibly do to at least minimize it.
Johnson stated in the wintertime the City does not plow North Arm very well. Johnson asked what would
happen with that snow since there will now be driveways there. Johnson stated the salt from the roads
could also affect some of those natural areas that will be planted.
Chair Leskinen closed the public hearing at 10:42 p.m.
Leskinen stated she would applaud the developer on the work that they have done and the tone they have
taken with the residents. Leskinen stated it is apparent that there has been a lot of cooperation with the
surrounding neighbors.
Grittman noted Staff's recommendation was to table the application. Grittman stated the Planning
Commission may choose to continue the public hearing until the October meeting rather than close it
tonight.
Leskinen stated she did intend to continue the public hearing as well and that she was merely closing it
for tonight's purposes.
McGrann stated it makes it a lot easier when you see collaboration between the community and the
developer. McGrann stated to the extent everyone can work together to create a park,he would encourage
that.
Berg stated the drainage issue for Ms. Mitchell is happening now but that she would hope the developer
will look into that.
Hiller indicated they will be looking at that.
Page 55 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday,September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Lemke asked whether Staff has any concern with the length of the one cul-de-sac since it is quite a bit
over the 1,000 foot maximum.
Hiller stated although the length is over,the traffic will be rather minimal and that there will only be six
homes on that cul-de-sac. Hiller stated to his knowledge there are no safety issues.
Thiesse asked what the intent is for limiting the size of the cul-de-sacs.
Gaffron stated the requirement for a 1,000maximum has been in the code since the early 1980s and one of
the reasons for it would be for emergency vehicle access. Gaffron stated if a tornado came through and
blocked the road,limiting the length of cul-de-sacs is one way to minimize potential emergency access
issues.
Gaffron stated the City has perhaps more than a handful of cul-de-sacs/private roads that exceed 1,000
feet, so it is not unheard of to grant that type of variance. Gaffron stated the City has not had an issue
with it in the past and that as long as the road does not get too narrow, it is probably fine.
Grittman indicated another common reason for restricting cul-de-sac length is to limit traffic and the
number of lots located on the cul-de-sac since it has a single outlet. Grittman stated given the size of the
lots on this cul-de-sac, it is not a major concern since there would likely not be any traffic issues.
Gaffron stated Casco Point Road functionally acts as a cul-de-sac since there are 200-plus homes on it
and there is only one access point.
Lemke stated he likes the evolution of the plan and the park concept.
Schoenzeit stated he also likes the park concept,and if the City can contribute towards that,it would be a
good investment. Schoenzeit stated it appears like the project is working and that there has been good
cooperation with the neighbors. Schoenzeit stated as the development expands outside the area,how it
impacts the surrounding neighborhood and the City should be positive.
Page 56 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
Leskinen stated she is receptive to the park as well and that it will be a nice addition to the project if it can
be worked out.
Landgraver stated he has difficulty understanding how a private septic system can be located in a
conservation easement.
Gaffron stated Staff just met with Prairie Restorations and that same question was discussed. Prairie
Restorations will be out there monitoring the site on a regular basis.
Landgraver stated his first reaction was that it sounds like a nice idea at first,but that as time goes on, it
may not be maintained properly.
Hiller stated there are some details that still need to be worked out with the conservation easement.
Mack stated he has raised concerns or questions about the primary and alternative septic mound sites
being located in the conservation easement areas and that he did check with the University of Minnesota.
The University has indicated they do not have specific printed guidelines and that each situation is
different but that they do look to outfits like Prairie Restorations to come up with vegetation that works
well with mound systems. Mack stated one of the guidelines that the University did articulate was the
need to mow a primary mound system every year. Mack stated sometimes restoration companies have
more of a three-year cycle and that those details need to be spelled out.
Schoenzeit asked if there are any best management practices for monitoring the quality of the drainage.
Schoenzeit noted Forest Lake is currently rated a D and that steps need to be taken to help protect that.
Nash indicated they have been working with the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District since they have
begun work on this project and that they will be monitoring work on the site. The quality of the drainage
is currently being measured by the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District and steps will be taken to help
improve that quality as part of the permit process.
Schoenzeit moved,Landgraver seconded,to table Application No. 14-3691, Source Land Capital,
LLC,405 North Arm Drive. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0.
Page 57 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS
9. REPORT FROM PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVES ON CITY
COUNCIL MEETINGS: AUGUST 25,2014,AND SEPTEMBER 8,2014
Landgraver stated he attended the August 25 City Council meeting and that all of the planning items were
placed on the Consent Agenda or approved by the City Council.
Lemke stated he attended the September 8,2014, Council meeting,with a number of items being placed
on the Consent Agenda. Lemke stated the Alness application and the Ziegler application were approved.
In addition,the City Council had a presentation on the pavement management plan and the 2015 budget.
10. OTHER ISSUES FOR DISCUSSION
Gaffron noted he will not be here the first week of October.
Mack stated he would like to schedule a joint work session and that he would like all of Staff to be able to
attend. Mack suggested a later date than October 1 be considered,which will also give Staff additional
time to prepare material for the meeting.
Leskinen asked if he has any dates in mind.
Mack stated the first Wednesday of the month seems to work for the Planning Commission.
Leskinen asked what date he was considering.
Mack stated the date is still open at this point but that he is thinking November 1 would work.
Gaffron stated the regularly scheduled work session on October 1 will be cancelled and that there might
be one later in the month.
Page 58 of 59
MINUTES OF THE
ORONO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Monday, September 15,2014
6:30 o'clock p.m.
ADJOURNMENT
McGrann moved, Schoenzeit seconded,to adjourn the Orono Planning Commission meeting at
11:07 p.m. VOTE: Ayes 7,Nays 0
ATTEST:
Denise Leskinen, Chair
Page 59 of 59